Just Breaking
Seated at the right hand of the Father.
God Rest his soul.
He'll be organising a split as we speak...The Independent Heavan [Hell] of Ulster.
Where do we stand on this now?
Quote from: mouview on September 12, 2014, 12:46:42 PM
Where do we stand on this now?
(http://replygif.net/i/101.gif)
A big man but he leaves his people in a poor enough state, I think. He could have saved a lot of deaths if he had copped on 20 years earlier.
John Hewitt got him well in this great poem
http://virtualmethodist.blogspot.ch/2009/09/coasters.html
The Coasters
You coasted along
To larger houses, gadgets, more machines
To golf and weekend bungalows,
Caravans when the children were small,
the Mediterranean, later, with the wife.
You did not go to Church often,
Weddings were special;
But you kept your name on the books
Against eventualities;
And the parson called, or the curate.
You showed a sense of responsibility,
With subscriptions to worthwhile causes
And service in voluntary organisations;
And, anyhow, this did the business no harm,
No harm at all.
Relations were improving. A good
useful life. You coasted along.
You even had a friend of two of the other sort,
Coasting too: your ways ran parallel.
Their children and yours seldom met, though,
Being at different schools.
You visited each other, decent folk with a sense
Of humour. Introduced, even, to
One of their clergy. And then you smiled
In the looking-glass, admiring, a
Little moved by, your broadmindedness.
Your father would never have known
One of them. Come to think of it,
When you were young, your own home was never
Visited by one of the other sort.
Relations were improving. The annual processions
began to look rather like folk-festivals.
When that noisy preacher started,
he seemed old-fashioned, a survival.
Later you remarked on his vehemence,
a bit on the rough side.
But you said, admit, you said in the club,
'You know, there's something in what he says'.
And you who seldom had time to read a book,
what with reports and the colour-supplements,
denounced censorship.
And you who never had an adventurous thought
were positive that the church of the other sort
vetoes thought.
And you who simply put up with marriage
for the children's sake, deplored
the attitude of the other sort
to divorce.
You coasted along.
And all the time, though you never noticed,
The old lies festered;
the ignorant became more thoroughly infected;
there were gains, of course;
you never saw any go barefoot.
The government permanent, sustained
by the regular plebiscites of loyalty.
You always voted but never
put a sticker on your car;
a card in the window
would not have been seen from the street.
Faces changed on posters, names too, often,
but the same families, the same class of people.
A Minister once called you by your first name.
You coasted along
and the sores supperated and spread.
Now the fever is high and raging;
Who would have guessed it, coasting along?
The ignorant-sick thresh about in delirium
And tear at the scabs with dirty finger-nails.
The cloud of infection hangs over the city,
A quick change of wind and it
Might spill over the leafy suburbs.
You coasted along.
Farage is his son.
I won't cry into my soup.
Quote from: mouview on September 12, 2014, 12:46:42 PM
Where do we stand on this now?
By the counter, holding a pint
The news will be a hard watch with everyone on praising this hateful oul **** who caused the deaths of many innocent person with his rhetoric, it's times like this I wish there was a hell so he could burn in it.
Hope the cnut burns in hell.
He'd better hope God is in a forgiving mood today.
Hard to believe he's gone. He obviously went on a charm offensive (insomuch as he could) in his latter years, but he was one hateful man with his rhetoric in the really bad times.
Whatever way you view him, he was a huge, huge part of this country's history over the past 40 years or more, and it's certainly feels like the end of something big.
Would Tony like to tell us if he thinks Paisley will be in heaven when his time comes along with Sean Brady? And if not why not? His congregation and electorate thought he was a great fellow.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/
Bear in mind these dead:
I can find no plainer words
John Hewitt, Neither an elegy nor a Manifesto
This section contains information on the deaths that have resulted from the conflict in Ireland between 14 July 1969 and 31 December 2001. The information has been provided by Malcolm Sutton and is an updated and revised version of the material that was first published in his 1994 book Bear in mind these dead ... An Index of Deaths from the Conflict in Ireland 1969-1993.
Getting that weird feeling, i hated the man for so many years, but the more i hear about him in recent years really does surprise me. From what i know he definitely had some sort of epiphany the last time he was seriously ill pre the St Andrews agreement and this signaled his mellowing although it hard to argue against the view that he got the smell of power as he got older and took the chance with open arms. However he did what he did and has blood is on his hands and has bred a legion of bigoted unionists that even ended up chucking him out of both his party and church for his relationship with MMcG/republicans
I thought the DUP website would have had some sort of tribute online even at this quick stage, but nothing as yet.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 12, 2014, 01:20:55 PM
Hard to believe he's gone. He obviously went on a charm offensive (insomuch as he could) in his latter years, but he was one hateful man with his rhetoric in the really bad times.
Whatever way you view him, he was a huge, huge part of this country's history over the past 40 years or more, and it's certainly feels like the end of something big.
I'll feel no sadness for him. Bigoted ould bstard. Whilst the IRA army council perpetuated the violence on the nationalist side, Ian, Thatcher and a good few other prominent Unionist politicians perpetuated violence on their side for 30 or 40 years. A powerful figure in Unionism he could have led his people to compromise and peace. He choose not to and killed a great many people when he helped topple Sunningdale.
Be under no illusions he is responsible for hundreds of deaths.
I never said he wasn't. I have no grá for Ian Paisley, Jaysus. I'm just saying it is the end of man who had a huge part in all of our consciousnesses growing up.
Quote from: mikehunt on September 12, 2014, 01:18:33 PM
He'd better hope God is in a forgiving mood today.
I found out about this just there now in mixed company, I couldn't feign any sadness and could only suggest that he'd have some explaining to do to his god.
Won't be able to watch BBC NI or UTV for a week now, but as there's Feck all on it, its no loss.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxVHtnJCYAAorAO.jpg)
His contribution to politics here was less than positive. He formed his own church and political party, and went on to become First Minister in the north; eventually shunned from all 3. I don't think he'll be greatly missed by either his opponents or his supposed peers within Unionism... People say he mellowed in his later years, I think he was just losing the plot.
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on September 12, 2014, 01:28:47 PM
Getting that weird feeling, I hated the man for so many years, but the more I hear about him in recent years really does surprise me.
Fcuk him, got his grubby mits on power and like the Shinners was happy to to sell out his ideals to be calling the shots and have a load of English and Irish gobshites tell them what great peacemakers they are.
Paisley was a complex character, it is easy to characterise him as a simple bigot but worse he was someone who know better, but beat the drum when it suited him.
Funeral will be private.
Quote from: AQMP on September 12, 2014, 01:39:18 PM
Funeral will be private.
Ah shíte, I'll just have to go sign the book of condolences with his third force buddies in Newtownards.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 12, 2014, 01:32:45 PM
I never said he wasn't. I have no grá for Ian Paisley, Jaysus. I'm just saying it is the end of man who had a huge part in all of our consciousnesses growing up.
I never said you did.
Watching RTE here now.To be fair there is little fawning over him apart from the obligatory "did his bit for peace in the latter years/ mellowed a bit" shite.
Poster on the Guardian website:
"I think the best tribute which we can pay is to all observe a minute's shouting"
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2014, 01:37:18 PM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on September 12, 2014, 01:28:47 PM
Getting that weird feeling, I hated the man for so many years, but the more I hear about him in recent years really does surprise me.
Fcuk him, got his grubby mits on power and like the Shinners was happy to to sell out his ideals to be calling the shots and have a load of English and Irish gobshites tell them what great peacemakers they are.
I tend to agree with you, just seen Chris Butlers report on BBC he summed up with .... PEACEMAKER, Paisley was no peacemaker, in fact he was the wart on the thumbs when others were trying to make peace
MMcG says he has "lost a friend"
I will definitely not be shedding any tears for him. His contribution to life here in the North was negative to the extreme.
Just one thing I would point out, regardless what you thought of him be careful resorting to calling him this, that, thon and the other as it'll only be used in forums and social media else where to try and reflect badly on the GAA and anything remotely associated with the Catholic community.
Probably the epitome of Paisley's hatefulness was his relevantly recent allegation, made under Parlaimentary Privilege, that Eugene Reavey (whose three teenage brothers were shot dead in a sectarian massacre in their own home in 1976) was a senior member of the IRA, a claim refuted by the RUC/PSNI and every other source. Despite this he refused to apologise, causing untold distress to the elederly mother of the three lads and to the surviving family members, who had already suffered more than enough.
No Sympathy Here.
If Ian Paisley is not in hell at this moment, then there is no such thing as hell. The death, destruction and turmoil that he played a big part in fueling over the past 40+ years cannot be wiped away by his near death epiphany of recent times.
What about poor Jim Branning. He deserves his own thread.
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 12, 2014, 02:05:37 PM
What about poor Jim Branning. He deserves his own thread.
Never knew that, now he will be a loss to the world, sad news alright.
Tony Blair, GW Bush, Paisley, Sean Brady will all get to heaven. All devout men so why wouldn't they? Certainly that would be the opinion of people who think they are great fellas. I shouldn't matter to God what negative impact they had on the world should it?
He does have blood on his hands in an indirect way. No doubt about it. But some people are going on here as if he was Hitler.
When Dalorous Price died I think people on here were actually paying tribute to her and she was directly involved in an explosion that injured 200 people as well as alledgey murders.
Pity he didn't go 50 years ago.
But then I suppose some other bigoted fundamentalist Protestant with a 17th Century mindset would have turned up to keep the Unionists and Unionism firmly rooted in bigotry, intolerance and oppression. :-\
Quote from: OakleafCounty on September 12, 2014, 02:34:06 PM
He does have blood on his hands in an indirect way. No doubt about it. But some people are going on here as if he was Hitler.
When Dalorous Price died I think people on here were actually paying tribute to her and she was directly involved in an explosion that injured 200 people as well as alledgey murders.
How many did Hitler actually pull the trigger on?
From Martin McG
Very sad to learn that Ian Paisley has died.My deepest sympathy to his wife Eileen & family.Once political opponents - I have lost a friend.
Quote from: OakleafCounty on September 12, 2014, 02:34:06 PM
He does have blood on his hands in an indirect way. No doubt about it. But some people are going on here as if he was Hitler.
When Dalorous Price died I think people on here were actually paying tribute to her and she was directly involved in an explosion that injured 200 people as well as alledgey murders.
Sunningdale for slow learners. The outlines for what happened after 94 were already known 20 years previously.
No no no was the mantra that kept a lid on it until reality intervened. And he didn't want in the 70s what he eventually accepted in the 90s.
Just to get the timelines right, Paisley was ranting and raving about Catholics before and during the civil rights demonstrations before the IRA were remotely active, so he very much part of the initial problem and not a reaction to IRA activities.
No feigned sadness here. He was the essence of evil in my childhood, a firebrand whose MO was to foment fierce anti-Catholic hatred and to drive an immovable wedge between two working class communities who probably had way more in common than not. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Thatcher and now Paisley gone. The political perpetrators of so much unforgivable suffering on so many people have thankfully breathed their last.
But in all honestly it was nefariousness as politicians that caused the pain, and really they started their rot when they died politically. Thatcher was dead that day she stumbled from No.10 having been stabbed in the back by her own party, and likewise Paisley was dead from when he was ousted by Robinson in 2008.
Hopefully the revisionist history painting them in saintly perception will one day be revised again to deprecate them for their vile undertakings
Quote from: PAULD123 on September 12, 2014, 03:07:00 PM
Thatcher and now Paisley gone. The political perpetrators of so much unforgivable suffering on so many people have thankfully breathed their last.
But in all honestly it was nefariousness as politicians that caused the pain, and really they started their rot when they died politically. Thatcher was dead that day she stumbled from No.10 having been stabbed in the back by her own party, and likewise Paisley was dead from when he was ousted by Robinson in 2008.
Hopefully the revisionist history painting them in saintly perception will one day be revised again to deprecate them for their vile undertakings
Thatcher didn't get the saintly perception that the media and her darlings in London wanted to give her as those put out of work and onto the perpetual dole queues in the North of England, Wales and Scotland were pretty vocal in ensuring her legacy there was also remembered.
Will the political commentators here have the same set of balls?
Can we not show a bit of class and let him be Mourned by those that want to .
there are plenty of times to pass judgement but not the day on which he passed on
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/12/ian-paisley-northern-ireland-sinn-fein
Ian Paisley: Northern Ireland's 'no' man who said 'yes'
There were many who doubted Paisley's attempt to share power with Sinn Fein after decades of dissent would work, but it did
theguardian.com, Friday 12 September 2014 14.13 BST
I grew up with Ian Paisley. His was a name I heard as a child playing in the streets of west Belfast. I wasn't particularly politically conscious and Paisley's fame at that time was primarily around his anti-Catholic rhetoric.
Although a religious minister, Paisley – like other firebrand protestant clergy before him – also involved himself in unionist politics. At a time of increasing unemployment the aim of his Ulster Protestant Association was "to keep Protestant and loyal workers in employment in times of depression, in preference to their Catholic fellow workers". But it was the Divis Street riots in 1964, when I was 15, that brought him to real prominence.
There was a British general election and Sinn Féin, which was banned, was standing candidates as independent republicans. It had opened an office in Divis Street, which I passed each day on my way to and from school. An Irish tricolour was placed in the window. Paisley threatened that if it wasn't taken down he would march from City Hall and remove it. The unionist candidate in the election, Jim Kilfedder, also demanded its removal and the unionist minister for home affairs, mindful that it was election time and not wanting to alienate loyalist voters, duly ordered the Royal Ulster Constabulary to use force to take it.
Fifty RUC men used pickaxes to smash their way into the office and seized the flag. The next day another tricolour took its place and the RUC returned to smash the window and take this too. Two days of rioting followed. Two weeks later a victorious Kilfedder used his first public remarks as the new MP for west Belfast to thank Paisley, without whose help "it could not have been done".
The Divis Street event set the template for much of Paisley's subsequent political career. It also had the additional effect of encouraging me to become politically curious and then active. I went off and got a copy of the notorious Special Powers Act. I read it and other material and began to learn about the causes of discrimination and sectarianism. I started folding election leaflets for the republicans.
In the late 1960s, the "Paisleyites", as they were generally called, organised counter demonstrations as a way of disrupting civil rights marches. Their actions increased tension. When the pogroms occurred in Belfast in 1969, the Paisleyites were in the vanguard of the attacks on Catholic areas. And from that point on the political situation became increasingly militarised. During the 1970s, 80s, 90s and into the new century, Paisley and his Democratic Unionist Party, which he established in 1970, opposed every effort at reform or to find an agreement. He worked closely with loyalist paramilitary organisations to bring down the power-sharing executive in 1974 and established his own paramilitary organisations as a means of advancing his political goals, including the Third Force and Ulster Resistance.
He was the famous "no" man of northern politics who thundered out "Never, never, never" as he rejected the Anglo-Irish Agreement at a rally in front of Belfast City Hall in 1985. These images will now be replayed in the days that follow. But they will be juxtaposed with photographs and film of a laughing, smiling Paisley sitting next to an equally laughing and smiling Martin McGuinness, Sinn Féin's deputy first minister of Northern Ireland.
When Paisley finally led his party delegation into a meeting with me and a Sinn Féin delegation in March 2007, there were many who doubted it would work. The press conference image of Paisley and I sitting side by side and announcing the re-establishment of the political institutions flabbergasted those who had lived through decades of conflict.
But it worked. Paisley and McGuinness got on famously. Paisley was still a unionist, McGuinness still a republican. It is to his credit and McGuinness's great patience that they created a space where each could find common cause with the other.
Paisley embraced the new dispensation. At his first meeting with McGuinness he declared: "We don't need Englishmen to rule us. We can do that ourselves."
He travelled to Dublin. He visited the site of the Battle of the Boyne at the invitation of the Irish government. He was at all times respectful and courteous in our meetings and good humoured.
His wife, Eileen, was also a benign and positive influence. Paisley will be remembered for the bad days but after decades of dissent, he chose to build a new future for the people of the north and of the island based on respect and dialogue. He should be remembered for that as well.
On my behalf and on behalf of Sinn Féin I want to extend our sincere condolences to Eileen, Paisley's children Rhonda, Sharon, Cherith, Kyle and Ian, his grandchildren, family, friends and church and party colleagues.
Quote from: rosnarun on September 12, 2014, 03:22:34 PM
Can we not show a bit of class and let him be Mourned by those that want to .
there are plenty of times to pass judgement but not the day on which he passed on
It's well seeing you didn't grow up in the North in the 70's and 80 - the bastard should have been killed years ago.
Very dangerous and hateful figure
(Back, for One Night Only)
Paisley was a nasty, bigoted oul c **t, who tortured and destroyed the country he professed to love for decades.
I sincerely hope he is now where he deserves to be.
P.S. If you don't hear from me when Gerry Adams eventually joins him, can somebody please repeat my above epitaph on his thread, in my name, word-for-word.
Jaysus EG. Long time no hear.
As a mark of respect at the passing of Ian Paisley, Belfast City Hall will fly no flag at half mast
....I thought it was funny
It's actually sickening, but not surprising, that the Sinn Fein PR train has rolled into action and we are seeing these eulogies and faux admiration for Paisley.
Let's remember him for what he was - an evil, bigoted monster who was as much to blame for the years of war as any other person. His hatred for all things and people Catholic was unforgiveable despite a 'thawing' in his elder years.
Rest assured that when Gerry, Martin et al meet their maker there will be no pandering from the Unionist side of our divided land.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 12, 2014, 04:02:33 PM
As a mark of respect at the passing of Ian Paisley, Belfast City Hall will fly no flag at half mast
....I thought it was funny
It is.
Quote from: balladmaker on September 12, 2014, 02:01:03 PM
If Ian Paisley is not in hell at this moment, then there is no such thing as hell. The death, destruction and turmoil that he played a big part in fueling over the past 40+ years cannot be wiped away by his near death epiphany of recent times.
Nail on head... hope he rots
doesn't everyone? :o
Quote from: The Bearded One on September 12, 2014, 04:06:34 PM
It's actually sickening, but not surprising, that the Sinn Fein PR train has rolled into action and we are seeing these eulogies and faux admiration for Paisley.
Overlooking what you did in the 70s and 80s (except for bishops) and emphasising what you did in the "Peace Process" is central to the SF philosophy, so what do you expect?
Any truth in the rumour that Terence O'Neill got a posthumous job helping out with the Judgement?
John Hume
However, history will record his political career as a journey – one which took him from the politics of division to a place where he accepted agreement as a solution, the need for power sharing and respect for diversity – but history will also ask if he should have reached this point sooner.
Quote from: bcarrier on September 12, 2014, 05:30:51 PM
John Hume
However, history will record his political career as a journey – one which took him from the politics of division to a place where he accepted agreement as a solution, the need for power sharing and respect for diversity – but history will also ask if he should have reached this point sooner.
This quote essentially misses the point of being Paisley.
His journey as such delving into the mire of bigotry, fomenting aggressive divisiveness was a cynical political opportunity and had political objectives, when it became appropriate decades later, he donned the garb of tolerance for political power.
The answer to John Hume's question is no, Paisley could not have reached the summit of his ambitions any sooner, his respect for a democratic process only came when he had to have that respect for the process in order to be the political leader.
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2014, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on September 12, 2014, 02:34:06 PM
He does have blood on his hands in an indirect way. No doubt about it. But some people are going on here as if he was Hitler.
When Dalorous Price died I think people on here were actually paying tribute to her and she was directly involved in an explosion that injured 200 people as well as alledgey murders.
Sunningdale for slow learners. The outlines for what happened after 94 were already known 20 years previously.
No no no was the mantra that kept a lid on it until reality intervened. And he didn't want in the 70s what he eventually accepted in the 90s.
this old sunningdale for slow learners bullshit would make sense if the loyalists/unionists at the time had any intention of sharing power.
they did not. eg see paisley et al.
it was the same old rehashed bullshit.
paisley was as bad as hitler and a hinderence to peace.
he lied to his own (telling to never cross the border - meanwhile his own companies and interests eg shipping companies were doing business in and through Dublin and the south all along).
it was priceless that the 'church' , political (militia) party etc that paisley formed all threw him out (mostly for consorting with taigs - hows that for sunningdale power sharing some 20 years later)
paisley did it all for money and power
it amuses me that his whole world was pulled from under him while he still lived. that was his hell. good enough for him.
caused elongation of the war in the 6 counties that could have been avoided if he saw that equality was a human right.
but he chose to counter any move to equality with militia like the third action force etc
glad the world has moved on and the 6 counties is now harbouring almost complete equality.
Quote from: Zip Code on September 12, 2014, 03:41:05 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on September 12, 2014, 03:22:34 PM
Can we not show a bit of class and let him be Mourned by those that want to .
there are plenty of times to pass judgement but not the day on which he passed on
It's well seeing you didn't grow up in the North in the 70's and 80 - the b**tard should have been killed years ago.
I did and I agree with Rosnarun.
Never never never... Oh, alright then.
I think that should be his epitaph.
A giant of a figure in our youth - and a dangerous one for the impressionable. And another reason why organised religion needs to be smashed to pieces.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 12, 2014, 06:01:55 PM
Never never never... 'How much' ...Oh, alright then.
I think that should be his epitaph.
The high priest of hatred, may he burn in hell.
Quote from: ONeill on September 12, 2014, 06:02:52 PM
A giant of a figure in our youth - and a dangerous one for the impressionable. And another reason why organised religion needs to be smashed to pieces.
We could use a big sledge hammer to do the smashing
(http://cdn2.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/migration_catalog/article25603804.ece/fa57c/ALTERNATES/h342/1)
Haven't looked at the 5 previous pages here yet, but normally i was brought up not to speak ill of the dead, in this case i make a exception. At the end of the road he turned a corner and did change but not accepting responsibility for all his shit stirring and violence which lead from the rhetoric he came out with will always blackened him.
Calling catholics breeding like vermin and many other anti pope and catholic language meant he was never acceptable to any catholic worth his salt. A bigot (even though he couldn't see it) and maybe one of the biggest causes of trouble in the north through all the dimwits who followed him.
Personally i always hold him responsible for the death of the 3 Quinn boys in Ballymoney after his shit stirring their be blood on the streets speech round drumcree time,
Think i open my 12yr old bottle of bushmills the nite, always keep it for special occasions!!This qualifies
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2014, 06:39:38 PM
Haven't looked at the 5 previous pages here yet, but normally i was brought up not to speak will of the dead, in this case i make a exception. At the end of the road he turned a corner and did change but not accepting responsibility for all his shit stirring and violence which lead from the rhetoric he came out with will always blackened him.
Calling catholics breeding like vermin and many other anti pope and catholic language meant he was never acceptable to any catholic worth his salt. A bigot (even though he couldn't see it) and maybe one of the biggest causes of trouble in the north through all the dimwits who followed him.
Personally i always hold him responsible for the death of the 3 Quinn boys in Ballymoney after his shit stirring their be blood on the streets speech round drumcree time,
Think i open my 12yr old bottle of bushmills the nite, always keep it for special occasions!!This qualifies
THE biggest.
who believe it a thread which brings Armagh, Tyrone and Derry together, all happy campers!!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2014, 07:05:49 PM
who believe it a thread which brings Armagh, Tyrone and Derry together, all happy campers!!
There are plenty of Down men willing to see eye-to-eye with their Armagh neighbours on this one
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2014, 06:39:38 PM
Haven't looked at the 5 previous pages here yet, but normally i was brought up not to speak ill of the dead, in this case i make a exception. At the end of the road he turned a corner and did change but not accepting responsibility for all his shit stirring and violence which lead from the rhetoric he came out with will always blackened him.
Calling catholics breeding like vermin and many other anti pope and catholic language meant he was never acceptable to any catholic worth his salt. A bigot (even though he couldn't see it) and maybe one of the biggest causes of trouble in the north through all the dimwits who followed him.
Personally i always hold him responsible for the death of the 3 Quinn boys in Ballymoney after his shit stirring their be blood on the streets speech round drumcree time,
Think i open my 12yr old bottle of bushmills the nite, always keep it for special occasions!!This qualifies
My Parents would have always instilled that in us but I agree today is an exception.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 12, 2014, 02:18:19 PM
Tony Blair, GW Bush, Paisley, Sean Brady will all get to heaven. All devout men so why wouldn't they? Certainly that would be the opinion of people who think they are great fellas. I shouldn't matter to God what negative impact they had on the world should it?
f**k off skull you maggot! Paisley died you twat, how about you make a meaningful contribution about his legacy or give meaningful insight with your opinion! Nah, for you that would be too much!
For me I will always remember him as a hateful, opportunist showman who stirred the ignorant sheep he led into commiting many crimes against the nationalist community. I will shed no tears nor will i have anything to do with slamming him on social media, i will simply give the aul hoor no more thought!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2014, 07:05:49 PM
who believe it a thread which brings Armagh, Tyrone and Derry together, all happy campers!!
At least in death he was an unifying force......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6A-ucLv44Y
All I can say is that I'm old enough to remember the feeling of sheer panic & fear abroad in 1974, during the UWC strike. The man was a complete sc**bag & all your revisionist history & "Chuckle Brothers" nonsense can't disguise an entire career built, almost till the end, on anti-Catholic [never mind anti-republican] bigotry. So - he made "peace" right at the end of his life, yes, it was all smiles for a year or 2 & still Robinson / McGuinness can't sit down & run a government like mature adults? Therefore, his short term in the sun, as First Minister, left no legacy to be built upon. I work in Ballymena & it was noticeable tonight that they couldn't get any of the Council's DUP bigwigs out to say much about him......clearly they're all Robinson punters now.
Quote from: AQMP on September 12, 2014, 01:39:18 PM
Funeral will be private.
No wonder - fell out with the Free Presbyterian Church & DUP. Nobody was going to be invited from those bodies.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/12/the-rev-ian-paisley
It took another two and a half years of personal reflection, internal party debate and continued persuasion by governments in London and Dublin before Paisley was ready to commit himself to the type of pact he had spent most of his life opposing. In the closing phase of the process, Paisley, characteristically, did not chart a predictable course. At a 12 July parade of the Independent Orange Order in 2006 he told followers: "[Sinn Féin] are not fit to be in partnership with decent people. They are not fit to be in the government of Northern Ireland and it will be over our dead bodies if they ever get there."
In a sign of the prevailing mood of war-weariness, that outburst triggered a swift rebuke from loyalist paramilitary leaders. "If there is blood to be spilled," observed a former UDA official, "then let Dr Paisley spill his own blood, because it will not be our blood he is climbing over."
Good article seafoid
The compact with Sinn Féin provoked few defections and prompted hardline supporters to query why he had not reached the same political compromise 40 years earlier – an act that might have sidestepped the mayhem and misery of the Troubles. The question that may never be satisfactorily answered is whether Paisley was the chief fomenter of Protestant alarm, or merely a larger-than-life reflection of it.
He may have condemned violence and taken extraordinary pains to avoid getting caught up in it, but he stirred, inflamed, ranted and terrified loyalists into believing that their heritage and their very lives were threatened. In the end, critics alleged, it was lust for power and a more imposing place in history that secured his conversion to the cause of political compromise. His belated commitment to cross-community cooperation, however, suggested that, like McGuinness, he had learned lessons during an extraordinary political odyssey.
No grieving in my house
Quote from: naka on September 12, 2014, 10:07:52 PM
No grieving in my house
+1 Pretty much sums up my feelings.
Quote from: bcarrier on September 12, 2014, 10:03:46 PM
Good article seafoid
The compact with Sinn Féin provoked few defections and prompted hardline supporters to query why he had not reached the same political compromise 40 years earlier – an act that might have sidestepped the mayhem and misery of the Troubles. The question that may never be satisfactorily answered is whether Paisley was the chief fomenter of Protestant alarm, or merely a larger-than-life reflection of it.
He may have condemned violence and taken extraordinary pains to avoid getting caught up in it, but he stirred, inflamed, ranted and terrified loyalists into believing that their heritage and their very lives were threatened. In the end, critics alleged, it was lust for power and a more imposing place in history that secured his conversion to the cause of political compromise. His belated commitment to cross-community cooperation, however, suggested that, like McGuinness, he had learned lessons during an extraordinary political odyssey.
It reminds me of this song, what happened to the communities that did the dying.
Paisley didn't care about working class communities other than using them for political aims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUsSawPeVg
Sons of their fathers dream the same dream
The sound of forbidden words becomes a scream
Voices in anger, victims of history
Plundered and set aside, grown fat on swallowed pride
With promises of paradise and gifts of beads and knives
Missionaries and pioneers are soldiers in disguise
Saviours and conquerors they make us wait
The fishers of men they wave their truth like bait
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/28/northern-ireland-peace-poverty-ira-ceasefire
Quote from: naka on September 12, 2014, 10:07:52 PM
No grieving in my house
Nor mine.
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2014, 09:17:56 PM
He is largely responsible for many innocent people from our community lying in their graves tonight.
A despicable human being that the world really could have been doing without. His death today, in his old age, is completely meaningless to me tbh. His evil deeds were already completed. God rest his victims.
+1 as they say.
The crux of it is this
Was Paisley the chief fomenter of Protestant alarm, or merely a larger-than-life reflection of it.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't some other Cnut who wouldn't have taken his place in early 70s.
For avoidance of doubt note words "other Cnut" above.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2014, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: naka on September 12, 2014, 10:07:52 PM
No grieving in my house
Nor mine.
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2014, 09:17:56 PM
He is largely responsible for many innocent people from our community lying in their graves tonight.
A despicable human being that the world really could have been doing without. His death today, in his old age, is completely meaningless to me tbh. His evil deeds were already completed. God rest his victims.
+1 as they say.
Same as that. See you in another while SS.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2014, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: naka on September 12, 2014, 10:07:52 PM
No grieving in my house
Nor mine.
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2014, 09:17:56 PM
He is largely responsible for many innocent people from our community lying in their graves tonight.
A despicable human being that the world really could have been doing without. His death today, in his old age, is completely meaningless to me tbh. His evil deeds were already completed. God rest his victims.
+1 as they say.
I was gonna put up a cupla focal but I cant do any better than this HS. There was a load of shite going about how good he was as an local MP helping local people no matter who they were. Dung. I curted a girl in the 80s from Ballymena whos family were involved with All Saints. The oul bollox didn't stop his buddies putting glass in the goalmouths in their pitch despite many approaches. Load of other stuff that I could go into but couldn't be arsed. Go raibh an cloch is isle san fharraige mar adhairt d'a cheann.
Weeping Willie was on Newsline earlier and gave a powerful performance. He said he loved the Big Man so expect a tribute song out soon by the bould Willie!
Hard to stomach the headlines on the news today about the peacemaker and the statesman when for the previous 40 years he spewed out vile hatred towards Catholics and as someone else said today sent many a young protestant off on the path to jail with his oratory skills.
What was hard to understand was his unchristian christianity.
In those interviews he gave a year ago he was able to recall a lot when it came to the dirty deeds Robinson et al were pulling. He was unable to recall anything pre-2006 of note if it possibly meant being accountable for others.
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2014, 10:38:49 PM
Quote from: bcarrier on September 12, 2014, 10:03:46 PM
Good article seafoid
The compact with Sinn Féin provoked few defections and prompted hardline supporters to query why he had not reached the same political compromise 40 years earlier – an act that might have sidestepped the mayhem and misery of the Troubles. The question that may never be satisfactorily answered is whether Paisley was the chief fomenter of Protestant alarm, or merely a larger-than-life reflection of it.
He may have condemned violence and taken extraordinary pains to avoid getting caught up in it, but he stirred, inflamed, ranted and terrified loyalists into believing that their heritage and their very lives were threatened. In the end, critics alleged, it was lust for power and a more imposing place in history that secured his conversion to the cause of political compromise. His belated commitment to cross-community cooperation, however, suggested that, like McGuinness, he had learned lessons during an extraordinary political odyssey.
It reminds me of this song, what happened to the communities that did the dying.
Paisley didn't care about working class communities other than using them for political aims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUsSawPeVg
Sons of their fathers dream the same dream
The sound of forbidden words becomes a scream
Voices in anger, victims of history
Plundered and set aside, grown fat on swallowed pride
With promises of paradise and gifts of beads and knives
Missionaries and pioneers are soldiers in disguise
Saviours and conquerors they make us wait
The fishers of men they wave their truth like bait
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/28/northern-ireland-peace-poverty-ira-ceasefire
Paisley was a hateful, bigoted, sectarian ****. Just like you , Seafoid.
As the saying goes ... 'When you're dead, you're great'
I find it difficult to contain my anger when I listen to the tributes on TV tonight to 'the peacemaker'.
He built his career on the deaths and misery of the working class communities, his supreme oratory skills sent many a young Protestant to a prison cell or to their grave, his bigotry and blatant incitement of hatred towards Catholics, sent many an innocent Catholic to their grave. He created division at every opportunity, and profited from the deaths and misery that his bigoted incitement were responsible for.
Let no one forget his role since the late 60's to the early 00's, and that Ian Paisley's near death epiphany of recent years can in no way wash away the destruction that he had a major role in fuelling during the previous 40 years. His lust for power and thoughts of his legacy were all that made him go into power with Sinn Féin. I hope he is now being judged by his maker.
(https://scontent-2.2914.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10696398_948016751881558_4658893302710421669_n.jpg?oh=94a16e8fe27d2d88d900d5f8d36e6880&oe=549EE7A1)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ian-paisley-a-firebrand-who-learned-to-compromise-1.1927598
In 2006, about a year before Ian Paisley stunned the world by going into government with Sinn Féin, I was talking to a clearly troubled senior member of his two organisations – the Democratic Unionist Party and the Free Presbyterian Church.
He told me privately that he felt that his leader was grappling with a profound dilemma: "There's a conflict between our politics and our theology. Our politics tell us that we must never relent on our opposition to Sinn Féin/IRA. But our theology tells us that Jesus Christ will forgive all sins for those who repent. We're torn between the need to hold the line politically and the idea of redemption that is at the heart of our faith."
Liberals, he said, could never understand that Ian Paisley and those who followed him really took their faith seriously, and that its demands might propel them into places they would not otherwise dream of going.
He was right, of course: Ian Paisley and Paisleyism were a closed book, not just to Irish Catholics but to British and European politicians.
The infamous episode of Paisley trying to howl down Pope John Paul II in the European Parliament in 1988, bellowing about the Antichrist, is instructive for the disgust on the faces of the parliamentarians. Paisley seemed, as in some respects he was, a throwback to the horrific religious wars of the 17th century from which modern Europe itself emerged. The huge roaring hulk of this rabble-rousing preacher was a nightmare figure from the repressed memory of the Thirty Years War.
There was only one thing to do with him – get him out as fast as possible.
Sectarian bigotry
That impulse was in one sense quite proper. It would be ridiculous to sentimentalise Ian Paisley's career. Most of it was characterised by sectarian bigotry, by hatred of liberals and homosexuals (he started the Save Ulster from Sodomy campaign in 1977) and by a relentless exploitation of the fears that he himself did so much to stoke.
His formidable talents as an orator, his brilliant instincts for agitation, his instinctive understanding of publicity, his broad but biting wit, his enormous charisma – all of these were deployed largely for the destruction of any non-sectarian common ground in Northern Ireland.
From Terence O'Neill to David Trimble, he haunted every unionist compromiser like an accusing ghost, pointing his finger at treason, sell-out and accommodation with an enemy that was not just political but spiritual. He inflamed the passions of a specifically Protestant paranoia, drawing his biblical inspiration much more from the Book of Revelations than from the Sermon on the Mount.
His greatest talent was for simultaneously stirring up trouble and disavowing its consequences.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlbmIMbKZa4
Susan McKay
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/there-can-be-no-doubt-that-certain-words-ian-paisley-spoke-sent-men-out-to-kill-1.1927558
But sad too about the lives that were squandered due to the destructive politics Paisley relentlessly hammered into his people. His booming voice ricocheted off the Armagh drumlins when he preached at Drumcree, and Billy Wright and his gang loaded up their guns, another generation of sectarian killers led to believe that God was on their side.
It was a voice I'd been hearing since it boomed across the fields from the Free Presbyterian church when I was a child in Derry. It was macho and outrageous and scary, but there was a strong element of vaudeville about it too. Women tittered at his jokes about good Protestants breeding to beat the Catholics. Men chuckled and said the "Big Man" said it like it was.
Listening to the tributes, the slimiest from Alastair Campbell, the most difficult and stiffly dignified from Peter Robinson, the most poignant from Martin McGuinness, I remembered the three little Quinn brothers, burned to death in their home in Ballymoney after apocalyptic warnings from Paisley over the rights of the Orange Order at Drumcree.
I remembered Billy Mitchell, a forlorn former loyalist paramilitary who told me he'd been into rock and roll until he started going to Paisley's rallies in the 1960s and dropped rocking round the clock in favour of preparing for doomsday. He killed two men and never forgave himself.
I remembered Mrs Reavey from Whitecross, whose sons were murdered by loyalists. She died a few years ago still waiting for Paisley to apologise for saying they were in the IRA when he knew well that they were not.
The poet Tom Paulin described him as "a complex and protean personality". My friend Bill Brown, who has written a (yet to be published) book about being an acolyte of the big gangly young preacher as a youth, says there were always many Paisleys (though only ever one Eileen).
As a reporter on the beat, I met him many times but never had a conversation with him. Our mirror images were introduced once in the make-up room at the BBC in Belfast. We nodded, then turned and shook hands politely. He was still in his "never" days then.
A friend told me that he had told someone else, who told her, that my book Northern Protestants – An Unsettled People was a good book, though he didn't agree with it. I admit it – I was thrilled.
Paisley was not the only armchair general who fired people up into sectarian hatred and then sat back to watch the flames. His most bigoted followers felt betrayed when he did a volte-face on no surrender and compromised with the enemy. He let them go, as he had let so many others go in the past.
The final television interview showed him an old man in failing health, disappointed that the power he finally gained had not lasted forever.
Best say of Paisley that he did harm, great harm, but he changed, and for that we must be grateful.
You'd have thought this would have been a 30 pager of venom & quite possibly would have been if it had have occurred 15 / 20 years ago.
I feel nothing, don't care.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 13, 2014, 07:37:51 AM
You'd have thought this would have been a 30 pager of venom & quite possibly would have been if it had have occurred 15 / 20 years ago.
I feel nothing, don't care.
His damage is long done so can't really feel triumphant now.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 13, 2014, 07:37:51 AM
You'd have thought this would have been a 30 pager of venom & quite possibly would have been if it had have occurred 15 / 20 years ago.
I feel nothing, don't care.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
Quote from: deiseach on September 13, 2014, 07:51:25 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 13, 2014, 07:37:51 AM
You'd have thought this would have been a 30 pager of venom & quite possibly would have been if it had have occurred 15 / 20 years ago.
I feel nothing, don't care.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
Until it happens again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAceYMZXBnY
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-obituary-rev-ian-paisley-1.1927133
I don't really know what to say. I don't feel the need to say anything. We all know all that's available to know about him and the fact that he was alive yesterday and isn't today has no significance to anyone but his family. I don't think they'll be looking in here, so I feel free to say that the only response I noticed in myself was to trawl around for funny comments and tweets. My favourite is the one about the minute's shouting. My own effort over a pint last night was to note that he became pals with Bertie Ahern. Who can forgive him that?
Quote from: Hardy on September 13, 2014, 09:46:36 AM
I don't really know what to say. I don't feel the need to say anything. We all know all that's available to know about him and the fact that he was alive yesterday and isn't today has no significance to anyone but his family. I don't think they'll be looking in here, so I feel free to say that the only response I noticed in myself was to trawl around for funny comments and tweets. My favourite is the one about the minute's shouting. My own effort over a pint last night was to note that he became pals with Bertie Ahern. Who can forgive him that?
He died on a glorious Twelfth.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 13, 2014, 07:37:51 AM
You'd have thought this would have been a 30 pager of venom & quite possibly would have been if it had have occurred 15 / 20 years ago.
I feel nothing, don't care.
If you want that go to an Cormac Reilly appreciation thread on one of the Mayo GAA Forums! :P
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-obituary-rev-ian-paisley-1.1927133?page=2
His first overtly political rally under the banner of "Ulster Protestant Action" was at Belfast's shipyard in 1959, to protest against a ban on an Orange march through the small Catholic town of Dungiven, near Derry. "There are no nationalist areas in Northern Ireland. If necessary the Protestants in the Queen's Island will go to Dungiven and march behind the Union Jack."
What an arsehole
This must have been the most important all Ireland win ever :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GV63nFHzDg
Harry Enfield does him perfect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxpYW_w5pgo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxpYW_w5pgo)
Quote from: seafoid on September 13, 2014, 05:58:00 AM
...I remembered the three little Quinn brothers, burned to death in their home in Ballymoney after apocalyptic warnings from Paisley over the rights of the Orange Order at Drumcree.
I know the family of these little boys. I was living in the UK at the time and I just could not comprehend it myself never mind try to explain to the equally uncomprehending British people with whom the matter was discussed.
As someone who lived across the Bann from his electorate/heartland, it was with some trepidation one would drive at night through the likes of Ballymoney, Ballymena, Cullybackey or Ahoghill.
Then there was The Third Force. Where did those 500 "gun licence-carrying" people atop the hill in mid-Antrim standing beside Paisley come from? Not all were farmers! Were they the hooded louts that tried to stop us in Cloughmills and as we approached then sped off, smashed the car window with a pick-axe handle? Who knows. What I do know is that I do not mourn this man. Few in our part of Ireland will.
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2014, 09:17:56 PM
He is largely responsible for many innocent people from our community lying in their graves tonight.
A despicable human being that the world really could have been doing without. His death today, in his old age, is completely meaningless to me tbh. His evil deeds were already completed. God rest his victims.
Probably the best quote I've seen for someone who is removed from NI.