Can't see anyone stopping them for the next few years.
Best ever ?
Not yet! They have about another half decade of dominance to go before they come close to the 75-86 Kerry team! So hold your horses yet!
Too early to call them the best ever, but it will take a collapse of seismic proportions to stop Dublin from winning this year's All Ireland... Imo, neither Donegal, Kerry or Mayo have the forwards or the depth of quality on the bench to outscore the Dubs, unless there is an improbable collapse from the Dubs.
The margins of victory in their 4 games so far.
11, 16, 16 and 17.
For me, they are the very best ever.
The greatest ever and only for that blip against Mayo in 2012 they would be going for four in a row.
They will not be stopped this year and tbh i even feel stupid saying something as obvious as 1/4 shot, never before has the all Ireland been as obvious from q/f stage onwards ,has there ever been any team as short as 1/4 at semi final stage.
1/10 to beat donegal.
Crazy stuff. Great side.
Hyperbole if I ever heard it. A great team to be sure but they have a lot to prove yet
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 09, 2014, 10:12:37 PM
The margins of victory in their 4 games so far.
11, 16, 16 and 17.
Means nothing (in that context) sure Mayo won by 17, 12, 16, 16 up to the semi as well last year. And we are no world beaters!
Yerra, they haven't played a Division 1 team yet.
And they can get to the final without playing a Division 1 team.
How come everyone isn't saying 'they haven't been tested yet'?
Heffo?
With CEO Jim Gavin in charge of a large coaching staff who prepare the playing staff and with a logistcs staff and no doubt an administrative staff to back up all the other types of staff not to mention sponsorships of about mtwice the amount of all other GAA units combined - what chance have the poor oul small amateur Counties got to give them any run for their money?
How many O'Byrne Cups have they won?
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 09, 2014, 11:16:24 PM
How many O'Byrne Cups have they won?
This is a particularly raw spot. Don't pick at it.
The minimum qualification for any side to even make the short list for the best ever is back to back All Irelands. So far, this is not best team to come out of Dublin, never mind the entire country. If they retain Sam this year, they could be in a position to push on towards some major targets. The strength of their squad is particularly impressive but the history of Gaelic games is littered with big names who could not cope with the pressures of initial success. Judge Dublin in another year or two.
At the moment they are contenders for that accolade but they still have a long way to go. they will probably need to achieve 5 in a row to be recognised as such
Quote from: Mourne Rover on August 09, 2014, 11:33:17 PM
The minimum qualification for any side to even make the short list for the best ever is back to back All Irelands. So far, this is not best team to come out of Dublin, never mind the entire country. If they retain Sam this year, they could be in a position to push on towards some major targets. The strength of their squad is particularly impressive but the history of Gaelic games is littered with big names who could not cope with the pressures of initial success. Judge Dublin in another year or two.
Well said.
They definitely have the potential to be up there with the best sides ever. We'll know in 5 years. If they win their 3rd AI in 4 years then they've a long way to go to match the Dublin of 1891-1908....if they had the same players.....11 AIs, 2 RUs.
Then the Dublin of 20-24 - 3 AIs 2 RUs
Then the Dublin of 74-79 - 3 AIs 3 RUs.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 09, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
With CEO Jim Gavin in charge of a large coaching staff who prepare the playing staff and with a logistcs staff and no doubt an administrative staff to back up all the other types of staff not to mention sponsorships of about mtwice the amount of all other GAA units combined - what chance have the poor oul small amateur Counties got to give them any run for their money?
with posts like that you should get the bus
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 10, 2014, 08:20:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 09, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
With CEO Jim Gavin in charge of a large coaching staff who prepare the playing staff and with a logistcs staff and no doubt an administrative staff to back up all the other types of staff not to mention sponsorships of about mtwice the amount of all other GAA units combined - what chance have the poor oul small amateur Counties got to give them any run for their money?
with posts like that you should get the bus
Roscommon have a bus. What's wrong with the post?
I think this is the best team Dublin have ever produced. However they haven't earned the right to be called the best ever. As they are so young, they certainly have the potential to go on and be up there with the best Kerry and other counties have produced.
The Wexford 4 in a row team would laugh at this claim, and they didn't have millions spent on them. We'll see if Dublin can beat Mayo by 11 points in the final as Wexford did.
Quote from: Saffrongael on August 09, 2014, 09:36:42 PM
Can't see anyone stopping them for the next few years.
Best ever ?
Sure they've only won one in a row like ourselves. ;D
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 10, 2014, 08:20:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 09, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
With CEO Jim Gavin in charge of a large coaching staff who prepare the playing staff and with a logistcs staff and no doubt an administrative staff to back up all the other types of staff not to mention sponsorships of about mtwice the amount of all other GAA units combined - what chance have the poor oul small amateur Counties got to give them any run for their money?
with posts like that you should get the bus
Johnny, you must understand that the position Dublin are currently in, the resources etc, all the pluses in their favour means that any team with an outside dream of landing the big fish have been pushed beyond being anywhere near attainable and it will irk. Let some guys let off a little steam
In saying that, Derry will win Sam sometime in the future ;-)
Quote from: Rossfan on August 09, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
With CEO Jim Gavin in charge of a large coaching staff who prepare the playing staff and with a logistcs staff and no doubt an administrative staff to back up all the other types of staff not to mention sponsorships of about mtwice the amount of all other GAA units combined - what chance have the poor oul small amateur Counties got to give them any run for their money?
especially when you waste your money building buses
Dublin are potentially the best team ever but it's still only potential. A best team ever will be judged over a period of at least 5 years and All-Irelands won in that period. Hammering teams in Leinster doesn't equate to best team ever.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 10, 2014, 10:02:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 09, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
With CEO Jim Gavin in charge of a large coaching staff who prepare the playing staff and with a logistcs staff and no doubt an administrative staff to back up all the other types of staff not to mention sponsorships of about mtwice the amount of all other GAA units combined - what chance have the poor oul small amateur Counties got to give them any run for their money?
especially when you waste your money building buses
You can say what you like but don't disrespect the bus.
As i said on another thread here, greatness beckons, and if they win this year that be 3 in 4yrs, but they got a fair way to go yet to eclipse the Kerry teams of the early 80`s, they can do it and dare i said possible do 4 in a row but Donegal will be tough to crack plus Mayo will be biting at the bullet if they overcome Kerry. Kilkenny of a few yrs ago was the greatest hurling team i had ever seen clocking in something like 8 all-irelands in 10-11yrs but even they coudlnt manage a fabled 5 in a row and they were extra special
Quote from: Sidney on August 09, 2014, 11:28:24 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 09, 2014, 11:16:24 PM
How many O'Byrne Cups have they won?
This is a particularly raw spot. Don't pick at it.
It's all well and good doing it in front of 83,000 on a sunny day in Croker in September.
Cold January day in Newbridge, and they don't want to know.
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on August 11, 2014, 10:19:37 AM
It's all well and good doing it in front of 83,000 on a sunny day in Croker in September.
Cold January day in Newbridge, and they don't want to know.
This is actually true enough. I would love to see them play more games outside of Croke Park (I know there is another thread on this). They can be abysmal at times away from home in the league. I wouldn't call them the best team ever after watching them against Derry up in Celtic Park.
Yes, they are mightily impressive alright but have a way to go before they can be called the best team ever.
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on August 11, 2014, 10:19:37 AM
It's all well and good doing it in front of 83,000 on a sunny day in Croker in September.
Cold January day in Newbridge, and they don't want to know.
In fairness, the great Kerry team didn't always put on show in the league either, I recall Armagh beating them.
But a team that plays all their championship games at home can hardly be called great.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 10:46:21 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on August 11, 2014, 10:19:37 AM
It's all well and good doing it in front of 83,000 on a sunny day in Croker in September.
Cold January day in Newbridge, and they don't want to know.
In fairness, the great Kerry team didn't always put on show in the league either, I recall Armagh beating them.
But a team that plays all their championship games at home can hardly be called great.
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 11, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'
Don't be so immature, there is an issue here and if you cannot come out with a response more useful than implying that those who discuss the issues "hate the Dubs", then you are only confirming the belief that Dubs are trying to distract attention from the issue.
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 11, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 10:46:21 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on August 11, 2014, 10:19:37 AM
It's all well and good doing it in front of 83,000 on a sunny day in Croker in September.
Cold January day in Newbridge, and they don't want to know.
In fairness, the great Kerry team didn't always put on show in the league either, I recall Armagh beating them.
But a team that plays all their championship games at home can hardly be called great.
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker
The lack of O'Byrne Cup titles won by this Dublin team suggests otherwise.
DCB will have to begin lobbying their great allies in the Leinster Council to have all O'Byrne Cup fixtures moved to Croke Park so that the Dubs can break their January hoodoo.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 11, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'
Don't be so immature, there is an issue here and if you cannot come out with a response more useful than implying that those who discuss the issues "hate the Dubs", then you are only confirming the belief that Dubs are trying to distract attention from the issue.
The problems are the competition structures. The provincial championships have to go.
But when Kerry were hockeying teams in Munster for years nobody cared.
Kilkenny hurlers are in the senior, minor , intermediate finals this year. Should they be split in half ?
They have won 5 out of the last 7 all Ireland titles too
What's the difference?
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 11, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'
Don't be so immature, there is an issue here and if you cannot come out with a response more useful than implying that those who discuss the issues "hate the Dubs", then you are only confirming the belief that Dubs are trying to distract attention from the issue.
when should Dublin play outside Croker ?
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 11:31:44 AM
The problems are the competition structures. The provincial championships have to go.
But when Kerry were hockeying teams in Munster for years nobody cared.
Kilkenny hurlers are in the senior, minor , intermediate finals this year. Should they be split in half ?
They have won 5 out of the last 7 all Ireland titles too
What's the difference?
(http://mindmillion.com/images/money/euros-loads-of-money.jpg)
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 11:56:36 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 11:31:44 AM
The problems are the competition structures. The provincial championships have to go.
But when Kerry were hockeying teams in Munster for years nobody cared.
Kilkenny hurlers are in the senior, minor , intermediate finals this year. Should they be split in half ?
They have won 5 out of the last 7 all Ireland titles too
What's the difference?
(http://mindmillion.com/images/money/euros-loads-of-money.jpg)
How do you explain kilkennys success then ?
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 12:02:22 PM
How do you explain kilkennys success then ?
They only play hurling, no football distractions. They were born with hurls in their hands, I don't know but it has little to do with money. Unlike Dubl$n.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 12:02:22 PM
How do you explain kilkennys success then ?
They only play hurling, no football distractions. They were born with hurls in their hands, I don't know but it has little to do with money. Unlike Dubl$n.
So you're saying that Kilkenny can win as many all Ireland's as they like but Dublin can win 3 in 30 years and be split in two.
I just want to expose you for the bullshit artist you truly are.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 12:29:28 PM
So you're saying that Kilkenny can win as many all Ireland's as they like but Dublin can win 3 in 30 years and be split in two.
I just want to expose you for the bullshit artist you truly are.
;D Dubl$n have to be split because of their financial doping. The amount of All Irelands they've won or will win is irrelevant to that. It's actually embarrassing for Dubl$n that they have only 2 All Irelands in football and none in hurling in the last few years. It's been put on a plate for them.
If Kilkenny were receiving the same level of funding I'd be saying the same things about them.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 12:29:28 PM
So you're saying that Kilkenny can win as many all Ireland's as they like but Dublin can win 3 in 30 years and be split in two.
Why not. Kilkenny have no advantage over other counties other than their own efforts at training, management etc. Dublin has a ridiculous advantage, whether they win or not. Having one county bigger than provinces is ridiculous.
Quote
I just want to expose you for the bullshit artist you truly are.
Pot = Kettle.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 12:29:28 PM
So you're saying that Kilkenny can win as many all Ireland's as they like but Dublin can win 3 in 30 years and be split in two.
I just want to expose you for the bullshit artist you truly are.
;D Dubl$n have to be split because of their financial doping. The amount of All Irelands they've won or will win is irrelevant to that. It's actually embarrassing for Dubl$n that they have only 2 All Irelands in football and none in hurling in the last few years. It's been put on a plate for them.
If Kilkenny were receiving the same level of funding I'd be saying the same things about them.
(http://rs490.pbsrc.com/albums/rr264/CensoredNews/Dont_feed_the_troll.jpg~c200)
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 12:29:28 PM
So you're saying that Kilkenny can win as many all Ireland's as they like but Dublin can win 3 in 30 years and be split in two.
Why not. Kilkenny have no advantage over other counties other than their own efforts at training, management etc. Dublin has a ridiculous advantage, whether they win or not. Having one county bigger than provinces is ridiculous.
Quote
I just want to expose you for the bullshit artist you truly are.
Pot = Kettle.
It's ok for Kilkenny to make no effort to promote football and be allowed to dominate hurling because of it but Dublin should be hammered for getting their house in order at underage level.
It's truly laughable. You know I listened to a lot of Armagh people between 2000 and 2010 telling me all that was wrong with Dublin football and then when we actually do as suggested some if them use it as a stick to beat us with.
Comedy .
Quote from: Saffrongael on August 09, 2014, 09:36:42 PM
Can't see anyone stopping them for the next few years.
Best ever ?
No
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 01:08:01 PM
It's ok for Kilkenny to make no effort to promote football and be allowed to dominate hurling because of it but Dublin should be hammered for getting their house in order at underage level.
It's truly laughable. You know I listened to a lot of Armagh people between 2000 and 2010 telling me all that was wrong with Dublin football and then when we actually do as suggested some if them use it as a stick to beat us with.
Comedy .
What's laughable is that you're well able to have a pop at other counties but you can't even bring yourself to mention the main reason why people are calling for Dubl$n to be split.
By "getting their house in order at underage level" you mean Dubl$n got millions of euro to get their house in order at underage level.
The comedy will be your reply that will avoid the money issue once more. ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 02:25:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 01:08:01 PM
It's ok for Kilkenny to make no effort to promote football and be allowed to dominate hurling because of it but Dublin should be hammered for getting their house in order at underage level.
It's truly laughable. You know I listened to a lot of Armagh people between 2000 and 2010 telling me all that was wrong with Dublin football and then when we actually do as suggested some if them use it as a stick to beat us with.
Comedy .
What's laughable is that you're well able to have a pop at other counties but you can't even bring yourself to mention the main reason why people are calling for Dubl$n to be split.
By "getting their house in order at underage level" you mean Dubl$n got millions of euro to get their house in order at underage level.
The comedy will be your reply that will avoid the money issue once more. ;D
they were obviously entitled to get money if the powers that be gave it to them?
Maybe you should set aside your call to split Dublin and instead call for a change in the associations structure.
One problem on here imho is that there is a lot of posters who don't speak their minds for one reason or another. Too many who do have strong opinions on the Dublin problem and whether or not you want to admit it, it really is a problem.
Many people I think, if they knew the facts (and I'm not saying I do know them all) would also have to agree a lot with Don't matter. The problem is many of you see him(or her) as being OTT and embarrassing and so want to dis-associate yourselves from him and his opinions. If you were totally paranoid about the issue you could say it it a Dublin spin doctor creating this shit storm themselves but lets not go there.
I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he/she says to be honest and I'd like to ask him and others what facts about Dublin can we agree on? For example
All their championship games get played at home which one section of the ground is more or less totally dominated by home fans and other fans made feel VERY uncomfortable by them singing Hill 16 is Dublin ONLY.
When the other teams are shooting into that side there is a very unfair disadvantage and when the other team get free kicks there is constant booing before they hit it.
Some may laugh at this and say catch yourself on Fuzz but often matches have been lost because of this.
Imagine if Dublin had to play Donegal up in Ballybofey this coming Sunday after a 6 day turnaround and only 2000 fans were allowed to come. How would ye feel? Hmmmm....
OK next fact? A controversial one for sure
AIG sponsored Dublin this year for how much? DO we know?
How does this compare with other counties like say Kerry, Cork, Donegal?
Do we know for sure how much Dublin got for other grants or sponsorship?
Rather than shy away from this topic I'd rather some of the more established respected posters on here comment and discuss it for real rather than sit quiet in case they would upset their fellow Dub posters?
As I've said on another thread.
I've taken some of my kids (and their cousins) to 4 Dublin matches in Croke park this year. They have annihilated the other team by half time. They have played amazing football and really have moved onto a higher plain. I can see how the Dub fans must be loving it. I would if it was Tyrone.
Some will say fair play to them for finally getting their house in order as for years they have had the population and home venue but lack of organisation and other reasons they struggled to win Sam.
Surely though if you look at the facts that we can agree on then their dominance is going to ruin the competition for the years to come.
It's like Chelsea and Man City taking over and having so much money that they even buy the good players that they don't even need to just stop their competitors getting them.
I was saying to my mates on Sat night that I predict that they will win every game this year by at least 10 points and do so with style and flair and hard work. Great for Dubs
Boring for the rest of the country.
People will stop watching it and move to different sports
The rich will get richer and the poor lose interest.
As I was saying if you're a good player now in a county like Donegal or Down at 17. You are offered a professional contract to play in Australia and off you go as there is not much work or other reasons to stay about.
Look at Kilkenny and Jack McCaffrey. Both offered contracts to go but neither did.
Don't matter might talk some shite some times and go about it all the wrong way and annoy a lot of us but it's hard to deny that Dublin sure have a lot of things going their way and I've not even mentioned RTE or the media yet.
One of the questions I asked my mates on Sat night was
"Will you be happy beating Donegal by 12 points and then beating Kerry or Mayo by 20 in the final"
Of course they will. But will our amazing championship competition be ruined for ever.
It's the one thing I always missed when I lived out of Ireland. The excitement of the big games and going to matches with butterflies in my stomach
I watched the Armagh & Donegal fans in the last 5 mins of their game on Sunday. The passion and fear in their faces. The excitement when they scored goals. The nervousness of not know was this your last day in Croker with your team. You can't beat being there slogan is so true to me.
Unless you're watching the Dubs. They know who's gonna win before they come
They don't have those feelings of passion and excitement
For 15-20 mins on Sat they were beginning to wonder but alas they could go back into the bar and watch it on the wee tv.
It's a fucked up world that me a Tyrone man is praying Kerry can come through and give us hope but alas I'm fooling myself. Dubs are MILES AHEAD with AIG firmly behind them.
This is getting tiresome and it really is a really weird reaction to brilliance. We have a truly brilliant team in Gaelic football and the reaction by some is to wonder how we can make them worse, not how can the rest of us get better.
Dublin play in Croke Park because they have a support base that warrants it and we all gain from the money they bring in. If the GAA decide to fix Dublin v Wexford down in Wexford then nobody in Dublin will complain but there might be a little bit less money to go around in grant aid.
QuoteSome may laugh at this and say catch yourself on Fuzz but often matches have been lost because of this.
What matches were lost due booing on hill 16, you said many please give me 3 of them?
QuoteOK next fact? A controversial one for sure
AIG sponsored Dublin this year for how much? DO we know?
How does this compare with other counties like say Kerry, Cork, Donegal?
No facts provided by you yet but lets leave that one go for now. I'm pretty sure the AIG sponsorship is known, in fact we know more about it than any of the other counties sponsorship deals you mentioned. I've heard figures for the AIG deal, €1 million per year, but I've never heard any figures for the other counties mentioned. €1 million per year for a county with a population of 1 million is proportional to a €100,000 for a county with a population of 100,000 and I would say some counties, Tyrone for example, would compare favourably with Dublin on that scale.
QuoteAs I've said on another thread.
I've taken some of my kids (and their cousins) to 4 Dublin matches in Croke park this year. They have annihilated the other team by half time. They have played amazing football and really have moved onto a higher plain. I can see how the Dub fans must be loving it. I would if it was Tyrone.
Some will say fair play to them for finally getting their house in order as for years they have had the population and home venue but lack of organisation and other reasons they struggled to win Sam.
Surely though if you look at the facts that we can agree on then their dominance is going to ruin the competition for the years to come.
It's like Chelsea and Man City taking over and having so much money that they even buy the good players that they don't even need to just stop their competitors getting them.
So, what's your solution? Inhibit our strongest county so the rest of us can compete? Did you make the same point when Tyrone got their act together? Why should Dublin not maximise their potential when Tyrone didn't give a flying.. for the Leitrim's, Fermanagh's or Carlow's of this world when they started to maximise their full potential?
QuoteI was saying to my mates on Sat night that I predict that they will win every game this year by at least 10 points and do so with style and flair and hard work. Great for Dubs
Boring for the rest of the country.
People will stop watching it and move to different sports
The rich will get richer and the poor lose interest.
Nonsense. We didn't stop watching when Kerry dominated in the 70's and 80's, basketball grew despite the Celtic's. Lakers and Bull's all having periods of dominance, I haven't noticed a drop off in soccer attendances in England despite most of the clubs having no chance of ever winning a premiership title, Christ the Scots (and Irish) still go to Celtic games despite it being the most non-competitive,bone useless league in the history of world sports.
QuoteAs I was saying if you're a good player now in a county like Donegal or Down at 17. You are offered a professional contract to play in Australia and off you go as there is not much work or other reasons to stay about.
Look at Kilkenny and Jack McCaffrey. Both offered contracts to go but neither did.
Kilkenny went and like Shields, Murphy and Heslin before him he came back. That'd be Murphy and Heslin of the superpowers Carlow and Westmeath by the way. Never heard Caffrey was offered a contract but as he studies medicine he may have felt the risk wasn't worth taking.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 02:25:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 01:08:01 PM
It's ok for Kilkenny to make no effort to promote football and be allowed to dominate hurling because of it but Dublin should be hammered for getting their house in order at underage level.
It's truly laughable. You know I listened to a lot of Armagh people between 2000 and 2010 telling me all that was wrong with Dublin football and then when we actually do as suggested some if them use it as a stick to beat us with.
Comedy .
What's laughable is that you're well able to have a pop at other counties but you can't even bring yourself to mention the main reason why people are calling for Dubl$n to be split.
By "getting their house in order at underage level" you mean Dubl$n got millions of euro to get their house in order at underage level.
The comedy will be your reply that will avoid the money issue once more. ;D
I haven't avoided the issue. You're the one who continually refused to answer anything put in front if you .
Dublin went with a plan to the Gaa and got the funding for it. Nobody denies that.
The 2011 success had nothing to do with funding as the majority of the players on it came from a different era.
For all the talk of expert sports science as we saw at the weekend we only got Fergus Connolly because Monaghan didn't return his phone call.
Again why should Kilkenny be allowed to fully resource their hurling teams with all available funding joke ignoring football as it's a key factor on why they've ruled the roost at hurling for the last 50 years.
We don't waste our money on waste of time outside managers when the reality is every county has management of requisite standard within their own county boundaries.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2014, 02:56:44 PM
One problem on here imho is that there is a lot of posters who don't speak their minds for one reason or another. Too many who do have strong opinions on the Dublin problem and whether or not you want to admit it, it really is a problem.
Many people I think, if they knew the facts (and I'm not saying I do know them all) would also have to agree a lot with Don't matter. The problem is many of you see him(or her) as being OTT and embarrassing and so want to dis-associate yourselves from him and his opinions. If you were totally paranoid about the issue you could say it it a Dublin spin doctor creating this shit storm themselves but lets not go there.
I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he/she says to be honest and I'd like to ask him and others what facts about Dublin can we agree on? For example
All their championship games get played at home which one section of the ground is more or less totally dominated by home fans and other fans made feel VERY uncomfortable by them singing Hill 16 is Dublin ONLY.
When the other teams are shooting into that side there is a very unfair disadvantage and when the other team get free kicks there is constant booing before they hit it.
Some may laugh at this and say catch yourself on Fuzz but often matches have been lost because of this.
Imagine if Dublin had to play Donegal up in Ballybofey this coming Sunday after a 6 day turnaround and only 2000 fans were allowed to come. How would ye feel? Hmmmm....
OK next fact? A controversial one for sure
AIG sponsored Dublin this year for how much? DO we know?
How does this compare with other counties like say Kerry, Cork, Donegal?
Do we know for sure how much Dublin got for other grants or sponsorship?
Rather than shy away from this topic I'd rather some of the more established respected posters on here comment and discuss it for real rather than sit quiet in case they would upset their fellow Dub posters?
As I've said on another thread.
I've taken some of my kids (and their cousins) to 4 Dublin matches in Croke park this year. They have annihilated the other team by half time. They have played amazing football and really have moved onto a higher plain. I can see how the Dub fans must be loving it. I would if it was Tyrone.
Some will say fair play to them for finally getting their house in order as for years they have had the population and home venue but lack of organisation and other reasons they struggled to win Sam.
Surely though if you look at the facts that we can agree on then their dominance is going to ruin the competition for the years to come.
It's like Chelsea and Man City taking over and having so much money that they even buy the good players that they don't even need to just stop their competitors getting them.
I was saying to my mates on Sat night that I predict that they will win every game this year by at least 10 points and do so with style and flair and hard work. Great for Dubs
Boring for the rest of the country.
People will stop watching it and move to different sports
The rich will get richer and the poor lose interest.
As I was saying if you're a good player now in a county like Donegal or Down at 17. You are offered a professional contract to play in Australia and off you go as there is not much work or other reasons to stay about.
Look at Kilkenny and Jack McCaffrey. Both offered contracts to go but neither did.
Don't matter might talk some shite some times and go about it all the wrong way and annoy a lot of us but it's hard to deny that Dublin sure have a lot of things going their way and I've not even mentioned RTE or the media yet.
One of the questions I asked my mates on Sat night was
"Will you be happy beating Donegal by 12 points and then beating Kerry or Mayo by 20 in the final"
Of course they will. But will our amazing championship competition be ruined for ever.
It's the one thing I always missed when I lived out of Ireland. The excitement of the big games and going to matches with butterflies in my stomach
I watched the Armagh & Donegal fans in the last 5 mins of their game on Sunday. The passion and fear in their faces. The excitement when they scored goals. The nervousness of not know was this your last day in Croker with your team. You can't beat being there slogan is so true to me.
Unless you're watching the Dubs. They know who's gonna win before they come
They don't have those feelings of passion and excitement
For 15-20 mins on Sat they were beginning to wonder but alas they could go back into the bar and watch it on the wee tv.
It's a fucked up world that me a Tyrone man is praying Kerry can come through and give us hope but alas I'm fooling myself. Dubs are MILES AHEAD with AIG firmly behind them.
I'd take your post more seriously if I wasn't aware of the monies that are available to certain ulster counties for their senior teams. For example Armagh havent a pot to piss in. Tyrone and Donegal have huge financial resources behind their senior football teams easily within reach of what Dublin spend on an annual basis.
Far more then the likes if Cork who play second fiddle to their hurlers in terms of resources allocated. So it's laughable to hear these same posters who query dublins financial arrangements while deflecting from their own !
Armagh haven't a pot to piss in for a few specific reasons. And of any of their posters who are in the know they'll know why.
Tyrone were able to build a 7m sterling training facility . Dublin haven't got one. That's nearly 10 million euros . An outrageous sum in GAA circles.
It's not dublins fault Tyrone's structures at u21 level are an absolute shambles.
If we don't win this year id like to see mayo do it because by and large their supporters don't whinge half as much as the nordies who think they have a divine right to dine at the top table.
Mayo have another excellent minor team this year that didn't need 2m quid to develop.
This is despite some of them like Tyrone having huge financial muscle behind them. That's because it's not all about money. Yeah it helps but not if you spend it badly like some counties do.
Dublin spent 1.5m on 2 minor all Ireland appearances, an all Ireland senior hurling semi final appearance, an all Ireland senior football appearance and a ladies team that reached the all Ireland semi final.
Donegal spent 900k in 2012. Considering they have a tiny hurling pocket , no minor or u21 success that year I don't know how any of you can justify to me that there aren't counties out there with the same financial muscle.
Zulu, do you think it's any advantage to the Dublin team to play teams at home?
Are you trying to tell me that you disagree that in tight games where other teams have missed normally kickable frees that Dublin being at home with a hugely partisan support doesn't make any difference
I don't think it would matter much now but would answer this VERY simple question.
Do you think Dublin would beat Donegal by as much if the game was in Ballybofey with 90% of the crowd being Donegal fans?
Kilkenny did go to to the AFL, but was there 3 months with Hawthron before returning home.
McCaffrey was asked to to trials but didnt go
Cream of the crop attend Aussie Rules trials
13 February 2013
Cormac Costello (Dublin), Daniel Flynn (Kildare) and Damien Cahalane (Cork) are just some of the young GAA stars who are attending Tadhg Kennelly's Australian Rules trials at DCU this week.
The cream of the country's young gaelic footballers are being put through their paces by the AFL's International Ambassador.
Dublin pair Eric Lowndes and Shane Carthy were also at the trials which are taking place over yesterday and today.
Paddy Brophy is another emerging Kildare talent attending along with Armagh's Ethan Rafferty and Antrim's James Lavery.
Meanwhile, rising Dublin star Jack McCaffrey turned down a fresh approach from Kennelly to attend the trials.
Kennelly told The Irish Daily Star: "Jack came last year, we saw a lot of potential in him and it's his preference (not to go further). Jack McCaffrey ran a 2.8 for a 20-metre sprint. It blows them out of the water in Australia straight away.
"It's a thing that clubs can look at and say 'there is freaky talent in Ireland. They're not just footballers, they're athletes as well'.
"It's not just Gaelic footballers we're looking for."
Galway's Shane Walsh and Kerry's Padraig Lucey are exciting basketball prospects while English rugby international Cameron Cope is also attending the trials.
AFL trialists - Cormac Costello, Gavin Burke, Shane Carthy, Eric Lowndes, Niall Scully (all Dublin); Paddy Brophy, Daniel Flynn (both Kildare), Damien Cahalane (Cork); Bill Maher, Philip Quirke, Steven O'Brien (all Tipperary); James Laverty (Antrim); Conor Carville, Niall Grimley (both Derry); Shane Walsh (Galway); Ronan Daly (Roscommon); Che Cullen, Lee Cullen (both Fermanagh); Adam Gallagher (Mayo); Ethan Rafferty (Armagh); Hugh McFadden (Donegal); Padraig Lucey (Kerry); Cameron Cope (Wolverhampton); G Leech (Westmeath).
But a number of Dubs were mentioned above and none went only Kilkenny and that was before those trails, what was the story there?. Kildare lost Daniel Flynn, Paul Cribbin before that, and Paddy Brophy more then likely will be gone at the end of the year too. Sean Hurley had trials so he could be gone too
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2014, 04:37:30 PM
Zulu, do you think it's any advantage to the Dublin team to play teams at home?
Are you trying to tell me that you disagree that in tight games where other teams have missed normally kickable frees that Dublin being at home with a hugely partisan support doesn't make any difference
I don't think it would matter much now but would answer this VERY simple question.
Do you think Dublin would beat Donegal by as much if the game was in Ballybofey with 90% of the crowd being Donegal fans?
Was it not your lads such as Mulligan, MC Guigan and McGinley that it used to inspire them playing against Dublin in a packed Croke Park and scoring into the Hill only to silence them ?????
Quote from: rodney trotter on August 11, 2014, 04:45:35 PM
Kilkenny did go to to the AFL, but was there 3 months with Hawthron before returning home.
McCaffrey was asked to to trials but didnt go
Cream of the crop attend Aussie Rules trials
13 February 2013
Cormac Costello (Dublin), Daniel Flynn (Kildare) and Damien Cahalane (Cork) are just some of the young GAA stars who are attending Tadhg Kennelly's Australian Rules trials at DCU this week.
The cream of the country's young gaelic footballers are being put through their paces by the AFL's International Ambassador.
Dublin pair Eric Lowndes and Shane Carthy were also at the trials which are taking place over yesterday and today.
Paddy Brophy is another emerging Kildare talent attending along with Armagh's Ethan Rafferty and Antrim's James Lavery.
Meanwhile, rising Dublin star Jack McCaffrey turned down a fresh approach from Kennelly to attend the trials.
Kennelly told The Irish Daily Star: "Jack came last year, we saw a lot of potential in him and it's his preference (not to go further). Jack McCaffrey ran a 2.8 for a 20-metre sprint. It blows them out of the water in Australia straight away.
"It's a thing that clubs can look at and say 'there is freaky talent in Ireland. They're not just footballers, they're athletes as well'.
"It's not just Gaelic footballers we're looking for."
Galway's Shane Walsh and Kerry's Padraig Lucey are exciting basketball prospects while English rugby international Cameron Cope is also attending the trials.
AFL trialists - Cormac Costello, Gavin Burke, Shane Carthy, Eric Lowndes, Niall Scully (all Dublin); Paddy Brophy, Daniel Flynn (both Kildare), Damien Cahalane (Cork); Bill Maher, Philip Quirke, Steven O'Brien (all Tipperary); James Laverty (Antrim); Conor Carville, Niall Grimley (both Derry); Shane Walsh (Galway); Ronan Daly (Roscommon); Che Cullen, Lee Cullen (both Fermanagh); Adam Gallagher (Mayo); Ethan Rafferty (Armagh); Hugh McFadden (Donegal); Padraig Lucey (Kerry); Cameron Cope (Wolverhampton); G Leech (Westmeath).
But a number of Dubs were mentioned above and none went only Kilkenny and that was before those trails, what was the story there?. Kildare lost Daniel Flynn, Paul Cribbin before that, and Paddy Brophy more then likely will be gone at the end of the year too.
Jack is studying to be a doctor, maybe thats were his passion resides, not all aspire to play a game that is boxing with football thrown in
There have been plenty of Dublin games over the years I knew we weren't going to win (Kerry, Tyrone, Meath); went anyway. It hurts when you get beat out the gate (vs. Tyrone, Kerry), but you don't stop going to the games.
We're beating teams by those scorelines now, but it won't last forever, no more than your own county's success did. And it's not like we're beating everyone by those scorelines either. Mayo by a point last year, Kerry still in with a chance in the semi until injury time; Kerry by a point in 2011.
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on August 11, 2014, 04:49:37 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on August 11, 2014, 04:45:35 PM
Kilkenny did go to to the AFL, but was there 3 months with Hawthron before returning home.
McCaffrey was asked to to trials but didnt go
Cream of the crop attend Aussie Rules trials
13 February 2013
Cormac Costello (Dublin), Daniel Flynn (Kildare) and Damien Cahalane (Cork) are just some of the young GAA stars who are attending Tadhg Kennelly's Australian Rules trials at DCU this week.
The cream of the country's young gaelic footballers are being put through their paces by the AFL's International Ambassador.
Dublin pair Eric Lowndes and Shane Carthy were also at the trials which are taking place over yesterday and today.
Paddy Brophy is another emerging Kildare talent attending along with Armagh's Ethan Rafferty and Antrim's James Lavery.
Meanwhile, rising Dublin star Jack McCaffrey turned down a fresh approach from Kennelly to attend the trials.
Kennelly told The Irish Daily Star: "Jack came last year, we saw a lot of potential in him and it's his preference (not to go further). Jack McCaffrey ran a 2.8 for a 20-metre sprint. It blows them out of the water in Australia straight away.
"It's a thing that clubs can look at and say 'there is freaky talent in Ireland. They're not just footballers, they're athletes as well'.
"It's not just Gaelic footballers we're looking for."
Galway's Shane Walsh and Kerry's Padraig Lucey are exciting basketball prospects while English rugby international Cameron Cope is also attending the trials.
AFL trialists - Cormac Costello, Gavin Burke, Shane Carthy, Eric Lowndes, Niall Scully (all Dublin); Paddy Brophy, Daniel Flynn (both Kildare), Damien Cahalane (Cork); Bill Maher, Philip Quirke, Steven O'Brien (all Tipperary); James Laverty (Antrim); Conor Carville, Niall Grimley (both Derry); Shane Walsh (Galway); Ronan Daly (Roscommon); Che Cullen, Lee Cullen (both Fermanagh); Adam Gallagher (Mayo); Ethan Rafferty (Armagh); Hugh McFadden (Donegal); Padraig Lucey (Kerry); Cameron Cope (Wolverhampton); G Leech (Westmeath).
But a number of Dubs were mentioned above and none went only Kilkenny and that was before those trails, what was the story there?. Kildare lost Daniel Flynn, Paul Cribbin before that, and Paddy Brophy more then likely will be gone at the end of the year too.
Jack is studying to be a doctor, maybe thats were his passion resides, not all aspire to play a game that is boxing with football thrown in
I know that, he is in UCD, there was 5 other Dubs on the list - that'S who i was referring too
They are not playing at home, Croke Park is where All Ireland semi finals and finals are played. They are the only county that regularly bring a crowd big enough to open all of the hill. Look Tyrone have advantages over Fermanagh, unfair built in advantages, the daft provincial system means counties like Mayo, Kerry and Cork have massive competitive advantages over the Ulster and Leinster counties so to pick out Dublin's advantages is nonsense. It is what it is and I'm delighted to see Dublin push the boundaries of football in such a refreshing way. I hope Mayo win the All Ireland this year but if they don't then I hope Dublin do. In fact as long as they play football the way they are I don't think they can win enough. Hopefully it will be the stimulus to challenge conventional thinking in other counties and they will start to see the advantages of a more open attacking brand of football.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on August 11, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
There have been plenty of Dublin games over the years I knew we weren't going to win (Kerry, Tyrone, Meath); went anyway. It hurts when you get beat out the gate (vs. Tyrone, Kerry), but you don't stop going to the games.
We're beating teams by those scorelines now, but it won't last forever, no more than your own county's success did. And it's not like we're beating everyone by those scorelines either. Mayo by a point last year, Kerry still in with a chance in the semi until injury time; Kerry by a point in 2011.
+ 1.......................................who would rate Laois, Wexford, Meath and Monaghan as All Ireland contenders a couple of Months ago ???
Some quare bullshit posted in these last few pages.
A lot of boys on here need reminding that there are 4 teams still left in the championship.
Dublin haven't won this year's title yet. I eat my hat if they win any more games by 10+ pts.
I think counties and managers should be looking at how to make themselves better and get up to Dublin's level rather than lambasting them for being the standard bearers at the minute. Yes they have untold resources in terms of finances and personnel, but sure aren't they the capital of the country ffs and behind Kerry they would be the most easily marketable team in terms of media and advertising. If I owned AIG or Vodafone I wouldn't wanna be sponsoring Down or Kildare, id want my money pumped in somewhere where it makes sense.
Maybe they do have an unfair advantage, but its not entirely of their own making. They have gotten their house in order after admittedly being mediocre in a few previous seasons and fair play to them. At least they don't play oul negative schite-fest football and can entertain. If yer county gets bate out the gate the tough shite, get the structures in place, get working on it at grassroots and build to aspire to be as good as Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, whoever.
Indi
Some of the money they Ulster teams get from grants and from the GAA of course but you'll find that most is collected from within with huge fundraising going on constantly.
There's not many big companies like AIG, Vodafone or Arnotts coming in offering millions each year. As Dublin is the capital it has the largest population and has RTE as it's hub as well as lots of radio stations and newspapers. Naturally enough then there is more scope for advertising and companies getting more back from using the Dubs for advertising. I'm not saying this is not fair but am saying here is another balance
Likewise there are lots of sports amenities already built in Dublin such as DCU and so there is not the same need for Dublin GAA to go building their own facilities as it's already there for free.
Re my point of watching the games.
How do you feel that you will more than likely retain Sam this year without one interesting exciting game. Is that what you want or would you rather have tough close games where you're heart is thumping in your chest.
Are you happy to be surrounded by Dubs at every match and nobody else to challenge you? Is that not boring for you?
When Kerry were dominating in the 70's where they winning each match by 15+ points?
Yes Squire you can see that when you win but you know as well as me that the Hill puts off more teams that it inspires don't you think?
Have you ever played an away game where the crowd are all shouting at ya? Did it inspire you or put you off?
What do you think of those in the Hill shouting at other Irish men to get the F**K out of their Hill? Is it fair enough?
Teaching their kids this is Dublin only and the rest are sheep sha&&ers
I love living in Dublin and was delighted when they won Sam in 2011 for my now deceased father in law but all I'm asking ye lot is do you agree you have a lot of unfair advantages.
Would ye be happy to play Kerry down in Killarney this year?
Of course it's never gonna happen but I'm making the point that is a HUGE advantage that yis just cant sweep under the carpet as if it's a myth.
Ahh Zulu there you've made it easy for me now
So Croke park isn't your home patch again.
What county is it in?
Where will 70% of the fans be from v Donegal?
Man ye might have made some impression on me with some arguments but jaysus if you can't even admit the Croke park advantage then I won't take you as a "serious balanced poster"
What age are you?
Is this you?
(http://c2.thejournal.ie/media/2013/09/dublin-fans-celebrate-as-they-leave-hill-16-390x285.jpg)
Brick buy yourself 2 more hats
Did you see Donegal v Armagh.
Did you see McFadden struggle again.
On top of that Dublin have been cruising along until now and every game they've 4 or 5 shit hot forwards "chomping" at the bit to get on to show what they can do.
As I said on Sat night. If Dean Rock was from Donegal or even Kerry he'd be an all star by now.
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 04:51:57 PM
They are not playing at home, Croke Park is where All Ireland semi finals and finals are played. They are the only county that regularly bring a crowd big enough to open all of the hill. Look Tyrone have advantages over Fermanagh, unfair built in advantages, the daft provincial system means counties like Mayo, Kerry and Cork have massive competitive advantages over the Ulster and Leinster counties so to pick out Dublin's advantages is nonsense.
This is just whataboutery, Tyrone is bigger than Fermanagh so it is OK for Dublin to be bigger than Tyrone.
Ah ffs howl yer tongue would ye.
They aren't the harlem globetrotters. They have weaknesses like any other team.
What decent teams have Dublin played so far in championship.
We are at the business end now with the 4 best teams in the country left and the other 3 aren't gonna just hand Sam to the dubs on a plate.
Donegal (as hateful as they are) will give the dubs their fill of it.
QuoteAhh Zulu there you've made it easy for me now
So Croke park isn't your home patch again.
What county is it in?
Where will 70% of the fans be from v Donegal?
Man ye might have made some impression on me with some arguments but jaysus if you can't even admit the Croke park advantage then I won't take you as a "serious balanced poster"
What age are you?
Is this you?
A serious balanced poster wouldn't be moaning about Dublin's advantages when they never complained about their own county's advantages before. The Aviva is in Dublin, is that Dublin's home ground too? What point are you trying to make, that we should be playing All Ireland semi finals in Ballybofey? Croke Park is the national stadium and all the major fixtures are played there and nobody ever complained about that before. I would love to see Dublin play some Leinster championship games in other grounds but there is a good reason what that doesn't happen too often and that reason helps your club and mine. Outside Leinster championship games it is nonsense to suggest the Dubs should play anywhere else but Croke Park and I doubt you'd find many players or managers who would want to play them elsewhere.
Dublin have advantages of course but stop moaning about them when you enjoy many advantages over two thirds of the counties in Ireland and never complained about that before.
If Dublin were to win an all-Ireland by beating every team by 15 points or whatever, I certainly wouldn't mind. But if you think they're going to beat two of the best four teams in the country by those scores, I'd have to disagree.
Not so long ago we were beating Wexford by a bigger margin, only to have our arses handed to us by teams from the top 4.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on August 11, 2014, 05:16:44 PM
Ah ffs howl yer tongue would ye.
They aren't the harlem globetrotters. They have weaknesses like any other team.
What decent teams have Dublin played so far in championship.
We are at the business end now with the 4 best teams in the country left and the other 3 aren't gonna just hand Sam to the dubs on a plate.
Donegal (as hateful as they are) will give the dubs their fill of it.
Yeah, at least they give the Washington Generals money when they hammer them.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 05:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 04:51:57 PM
They are not playing at home, Croke Park is where All Ireland semi finals and finals are played. They are the only county that regularly bring a crowd big enough to open all of the hill. Look Tyrone have advantages over Fermanagh, unfair built in advantages, the daft provincial system means counties like Mayo, Kerry and Cork have massive competitive advantages over the Ulster and Leinster counties so to pick out Dublin's advantages is nonsense.
This is just whataboutery, Tyrone is bigger than Fermanagh so it is OK for Dublin to be bigger than Tyrone.
Eh? People are complaining about Dublin's advantages when the likes of Tyrone have those same advantages compared to the likes of Fermanagh. You can't complain about one county having advantages when you never complained about the relative advantages of your own county. The GAA is inherently unfair and always has been, Dublin are now simply using their advantages when they didn't before. They are doing what they are meant to be doing and getting criticised for it. You couldn't make this nonsense up.
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 05:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 04:51:57 PM
They are not playing at home, Croke Park is where All Ireland semi finals and finals are played. They are the only county that regularly bring a crowd big enough to open all of the hill. Look Tyrone have advantages over Fermanagh, unfair built in advantages, the daft provincial system means counties like Mayo, Kerry and Cork have massive competitive advantages over the Ulster and Leinster counties so to pick out Dublin's advantages is nonsense.
This is just whataboutery, Tyrone is bigger than Fermanagh so it is OK for Dublin to be bigger than Tyrone.
Eh? People are complaining about Dublin's advantages when the likes of Tyrone have those same advantages compared to the likes of Fermanagh. You can't complain about one county having advantages when you never complained about the relative advantages of your own county. The GAA is inherently unfair and always has been, Dublin are now simply using their advantages when they didn't before. They are doing what they are meant to be doing and getting criticised for it. You couldn't make this nonsense up.
What's you're angle going to be when a Leitrim poster comes along and says the same thing? Seems like you're the one setting yourself up for a logical fall here - two imbalances existing doesn't make one of them any less pronounced.
Quote from: rodney trotter on August 11, 2014, 04:45:35 PM
But a number of Dubs were mentioned above and none went only Kilkenny and that was before those trails, what was the story there?. Kildare lost Daniel Flynn, Paul Cribbin before that, and Paddy Brophy more then likely will be gone at the end of the year too. Sean Hurley had trials so he could be gone too
Those Australians know good footballers when they see them.
In fairness to Heffo and a few sensible Dub fans they can admit that the croker thing is of course a massive advantage.
I asked a very simple Q and nobody has answered it yet?
Would Dublin be as confident of beating Donegal in Ballybofey or having the AI final in Killarney
Of course not so then that shows that Croker is a BIG factor that you are NOT willing to admit.
Some are however. I am not asking it to be changed as of course it's the biggest stadium in Ireland but don't pretend it's not a HUGE factor
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2014, 05:41:39 PM
In fairness to Heffo and a few sensible Dub fans they can admit that the croker thing is of course a massive advantage.
I asked a very simple Q and nobody has answered it yet?
Would Dublin be as confident of beating Donegal in Ballybofey or having the AI final in Killarney
Of course not so then that shows that Croker is a BIG factor that you are NOT willing to admit.
Some are however. I am not asking it to be changed as of course it's the biggest stadium in Ireland but don't pretend it's not a HUGE factor
Why isn't the same being said of Monaghan's huge advantage in Ulster of getting to play in Clones all the time?
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on August 11, 2014, 05:48:43 PM
Why isn't the same being said of Monaghan's huge advantage in Ulster of getting to play in Clones all the time?
over the years Monaghan didn't have that advantage much, as they played in few Ulster finals and Ulster semi finals were not invariably played in Clones.
In any case Monaghan's advantage will be gone in 3 years. How about Dublin's.
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2014, 05:32:33 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 05:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 04:51:57 PM
They are not playing at home, Croke Park is where All Ireland semi finals and finals are played. They are the only county that regularly bring a crowd big enough to open all of the hill. Look Tyrone have advantages over Fermanagh, unfair built in advantages, the daft provincial system means counties like Mayo, Kerry and Cork have massive competitive advantages over the Ulster and Leinster counties so to pick out Dublin's advantages is nonsense.
This is just whataboutery, Tyrone is bigger than Fermanagh so it is OK for Dublin to be bigger than Tyrone.
Eh? People are complaining about Dublin's advantages when the likes of Tyrone have those same advantages compared to the likes of Fermanagh. You can't complain about one county having advantages when you never complained about the relative advantages of your own county. The GAA is inherently unfair and always has been, Dublin are now simply using their advantages when they didn't before. They are doing what they are meant to be doing and getting criticised for it. You couldn't make this nonsense up.
What's you're angle going to be when a Leitrim poster comes along and says the same thing? Seems like you're the one setting yourself up for a logical fall here - two imbalances existing doesn't make one of them any less pronounced.
If a Leitrim man says what, that Dublin have advantages? The point I'm making is that the GAA system is inherently unfair but it's only now I'm hearing people complain about it, why is that? All Dublin are doing is what every county should be doing so why are people complaining?
QuoteIn fairness to Heffo and a few sensible Dub fans they can admit that the croker thing is of course a massive advantage.
I asked a very simple Q and nobody has answered it yet?
I answered your questions and posed you with a few in return, all of which you ignored.
QuoteWould Dublin be as confident of beating Donegal in Ballybofey or having the AI final in Killarney
I don't know but since All Ireland finals should be played in Croke Park it's a bit of an irrelevant question.
QuoteOf course not so then that shows that Croker is a BIG factor that you are NOT willing to admit.
Some are however. I am not asking it to be changed as of course it's the biggest stadium in Ireland but don't pretend it's not a HUGE factor
It's gone from being a big advantage to a huge advantage in the space of a few words and both is hyperbolic nonsense. If the All Ireland was played in Thurles this year I would imagine Dublin would still be favourites to win it should they get there. An advantage, maybe, a HUGE advantage, nonsense.
It's not Dublin's fault that Monaghan haven't been good enough to utilise that advantage to the fullest. Same with Mayo constantly failing to convert their guaranteed bye to the Quarter Final every year lately into AI titles.
More to the point, Dublin are winning because they have the most talented players in Ireland, not because they have less distance to travel to the matches or whatever other perceived advantage you feel that playing in Croke Park gives them. Only a fool would suggest otherwise.
Firstly they didn't always have their first round games at home? Some times they did sometimes they didn't.
Ulster championship is the hardest to win as many true gaels will tell you
How many Ulster have Dublin won?
Yes that's right. NONE!!!!!! ;)
If you look at Monaghan's current record at home then ...
Thanks for bringing up the Monaghan argument.
Amazed how many of ye still won't even admit defeat on the Croker home advantage issue. Sure there's no point in looking deeper at the facts.
LOL SouthDubBro. So it's a distance thing? The further you travel the more you'll lose by? ahhh I see.
Zulu, do YOU think Dublin would beat Kerry down in Killarney next month?
Absolutely, but we are only speculating when discussing it so I don't see why we should get hung up on something neither of us can prove. You haven't addressed Tyrone's advantages compared to Fermanagh who are much smaller or Cork who have to deal with hurling? Should we take money off you or force you to play hurling in at least half the county?
Dublin have advantages but it's pointless complaining about them and this board has turned into a bit of an anti-Dublin moaners central board when we should be talking about football now that we're at the business end.
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 06:10:15 PM
Absolutely, but we are only speculating when discussing it so I don't see why we should get hung up on something neither of us can prove. You haven't addressed Tyrone's advantages compared to Fermanagh who are much smaller or Cork who have to deal with hurling? Should we take money off you or force you to play hurling in at least half the county?
There are counties within a reasonable distance of the average, which is most of them, a few that are very small and one elephant.
For small counties, success can come in Div 3 or whatever and Fermanagh could aspire to an Ulster title, with a freetaker they would have had one in 2008. You could have Tommy Murphy Cup. The question of amalgamation is an open one, but this can be left up to the counties concerned, as their amalgamation benefits rather than reduces other counties prospects.
The elephantine county takes from every else.
Are the guys still amateur in dublin?
Kerry 75-86 will never be surpassed!
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 11:31:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 11, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'
Don't be so immature, there is an issue here and if you cannot come out with a response more useful than implying that those who discuss the issues "hate the Dubs", then you are only confirming the belief that Dubs are trying to distract attention from the issue.
The problems are the competition structures. The provincial championships have to go.
But when Kerry were hockeying teams in Munster for years nobody cared.
Kilkenny hurlers are in the senior, minor , intermediate finals this year. Should they be split in half ?
They have won 5 out of the last 7 all Ireland titles too
What's the difference?
Quite a bit, I would say.
The difference in Kilkenny's case is that the county has only 12 senior and 12 intermediate hurling clubs. At least such was the case a few years ago when I was talking to a CB member.
When you compare Kerry to Cork in Munster, you'll find that Cork has far more playing members than Kerry yet Kerry have more than twice the number of Munster titles that Cork have. (76 to 37)
I would argue that neither county should be penalised for excellence. Cork, Tipp, Galway and others have as many if not more players than Kilkenny and the list of football counties whose resources are greater than Kerry's is a long one.
You can put their success down to sound internal structures or tradition or whatever you think is relevant but the crucial point is that neither county has anything that others can't aspire to.
In Dublin's case, things aren't quite so clear-cut.
While the population of Dublin is increasing rapidly, rural depopulation is a serious issue in many rural counties.
Right now, the Dubs' minors are rated favourites by most pundits for the Tom Markham Cup, the U21s are AI champions and the seniors are going for 3 out of 4.
If this is a portent of things to come, nobody will benefit and that includes Dublin itself.
Quote from: Armamike on August 11, 2014, 07:26:12 PM
Kerry 75-86 will never be surpassed!
Who won the AIs in '76 and '77?
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2014, 05:08:01 PM
Indi
Some of the money they Ulster teams get from grants and from the GAA of course but you'll find that most is collected from within with huge fundraising going on constantly.
There's not many big companies like AIG, Vodafone or Arnotts coming in offering millions each year. As Dublin is the capital it has the largest population and has RTE as it's hub as well as lots of radio stations and newspapers. Naturally enough then there is more scope for advertising and companies getting more back from using the Dubs for advertising. I'm not saying this is not fair but am saying here is another balance
Likewise there are lots of sports amenities already built in Dublin such as DCU and so there is not the same need for Dublin GAA to go building their own facilities as it's already there for free.
Re my point of watching the games.
How do you feel that you will more than likely retain Sam this year without one interesting exciting game. Is that what you want or would you rather have tough close games where you're heart is thumping in your chest.
Are you happy to be surrounded by Dubs at every match and nobody else to challenge you? Is that not boring for you?
When Kerry were dominating in the 70's where they winning each match by 15+ points?
Yes Squire you can see that when you win but you know as well as me that the Hill puts off more teams that it inspires don't you think?
Have you ever played an away game where the crowd are all shouting at ya? Did it inspire you or put you off?
What do you think of those in the Hill shouting at other Irish men to get the F**K out of their Hill? Is it fair enough?
Teaching their kids this is Dublin only and the rest are sheep sha&&ers
I love living in Dublin and was delighted when they won Sam in 2011 for my now deceased father in law but all I'm asking ye lot is do you agree you have a lot of unfair advantages.
Would ye be happy to play Kerry down in Killarney this year?
Of course it's never gonna happen but I'm making the point that is a HUGE advantage that yis just cant sweep under the carpet as if it's a myth.
Ahh Zulu there you've made it easy for me now
So Croke park isn't your home patch again.
What county is it in?
Where will 70% of the fans be from v Donegal?
Man ye might have made some impression on me with some arguments but jaysus if you can't even admit the Croke park advantage then I won't take you as a "serious balanced poster"
What age are you?
Is this you?
(http://c2.thejournal.ie/media/2013/09/dublin-fans-celebrate-as-they-leave-hill-16-390x285.jpg)
Brick buy yourself 2 more hats
Did you see Donegal v Armagh.
Did you see McFadden struggle again.
On top of that Dublin have been cruising along until now and every game they've 4 or 5 shit hot forwards "chomping" at the bit to get on to show what they can do.
As I said on Sat night. If Dean Rock was from Donegal or even Kerry he'd be an all star by now.
7m sterling? We couldn't afford that. Sorry mate but you're arguments are largely redundant on that basis. You've huge monies behind you. Won 3 all ireland minors in a decade. What more do you want? Jim Gavin to come up and manage the team for you?
I never questioned your right to enjoy 2003-2008. So why are you questioning our right to enjoy our period in the sun?
This is all hyperbole. Tyrone had no issue with playing Dublin in Cp when you could beat us. But no when you can't let's all have a whinge. Poor old Tyrone- never mind that they have to slum it in their 7m STG facility but they also don't want to play in the best stadium because sadly they just aren't good enough anymore.
Dean Rock wouldn't be an All-Star anywhere else either by the way. An excellent footballer but marginally below top class. I've seen him a lot more then you as well.
Its laughable really we're annointed champions for a competition we may not even win just to suit certain agendas out there.
If we don't win it- we're bottlers.
If we do win it- we have an unfair advantage.
Truly laughable arguments. It would be in our interests not to win it this year just so as shut you lot up.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2014, 05:08:01 PM
Indi
Some of the money they Ulster teams get from grants and from the GAA of course but you'll find that most is collected from within with huge fundraising going on constantly.
There's not many big companies like AIG, Vodafone or Arnotts coming in offering millions each year. As Dublin is the capital it has the largest population and has RTE as it's hub as well as lots of radio stations and newspapers. Naturally enough then there is more scope for advertising and companies getting more back from using the Dubs for advertising. I'm not saying this is not fair but am saying here is another balance
Likewise there are lots of sports amenities already built in Dublin such as DCU and so there is not the same need for Dublin GAA to go building their own facilities as it's already there for free.
Re my point of watching the games.
How do you feel that you will more than likely retain Sam this year without one interesting exciting game. Is that what you want or would you rather have tough close games where you're heart is thumping in your chest.
Are you happy to be surrounded by Dubs at every match and nobody else to challenge you? Is that not boring for you?
When Kerry were dominating in the 70's where they winning each match by 15+ points?
Yes Squire you can see that when you win but you know as well as me that the Hill puts off more teams that it inspires don't you think?
Have you ever played an away game where the crowd are all shouting at ya? Did it inspire you or put you off?
What do you think of those in the Hill shouting at other Irish men to get the F**K out of their Hill? Is it fair enough?
Teaching their kids this is Dublin only and the rest are sheep sha&&ers
I love living in Dublin and was delighted when they won Sam in 2011 for my now deceased father in law but all I'm asking ye lot is do you agree you have a lot of unfair advantages.
Would ye be happy to play Kerry down in Killarney this year?
Of course it's never gonna happen but I'm making the point that is a HUGE advantage that yis just cant sweep under the carpet as if it's a myth.
Ahh Zulu there you've made it easy for me now
So Croke park isn't your home patch again.
What county is it in?
Where will 70% of the fans be from v Donegal?
Man ye might have made some impression on me with some arguments but jaysus if you can't even admit the Croke park advantage then I won't take you as a "serious balanced poster"
What age are you?
Is this you?
(http://c2.thejournal.ie/media/2013/09/dublin-fans-celebrate-as-they-leave-hill-16-390x285.jpg)
Brick buy yourself 2 more hats
Did you see Donegal v Armagh.
Did you see McFadden struggle again.
On top of that Dublin have been cruising along until now and every game they've 4 or 5 shit hot forwards "chomping" at the bit to get on to show what they can do.
As I said on Sat night. If Dean Rock was from Donegal or even Kerry he'd be an all star by now.
What about the £120m The Ulster council got from the British tax payer which coincided with the four AI wins from Tyrone & Armagh? I must've missed you shouting from the hills for that to be redistributed down South
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 11, 2014, 08:08:19 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 11:31:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 11, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'
Don't be so immature, there is an issue here and if you cannot come out with a response more useful than implying that those who discuss the issues "hate the Dubs", then you are only confirming the belief that Dubs are trying to distract attention from the issue.
The problems are the competition structures. The provincial championships have to go.
But when Kerry were hockeying teams in Munster for years nobody cared.
Kilkenny hurlers are in the senior, minor , intermediate finals this year. Should they be split in half ?
They have won 5 out of the last 7 all Ireland titles too
What's the difference?
Quite a bit, I would say.
The difference in Kilkenny's case is that the county has only 12 senior and 12 intermediate hurling clubs. At least such was the case a few years ago when I was talking to a CB member.
When you compare Kerry to Cork in Munster, you'll find that Cork has far more playing members than Kerry yet Kerry have more than twice the number of Munster titles that Cork have. (76 to 37)
I would argue that neither county should be penalised for excellence. Cork, Tipp, Galway and others have as many if not more players than Kilkenny and the list of football counties whose resources are greater than Kerry's is a long one.
You can put their success down to sound internal structures or tradition or whatever you think is relevant but the crucial point is that neither county has anything that others can't aspire to.
In Dublin's case, things aren't quite so clear-cut.
While the population of Dublin is increasing rapidly, rural depopulation is a serious issue in many rural counties.
Right now, the Dubs' minors are rated favourites by most pundits for the Tom Markham Cup, the U21s are AI champions and the seniors are going for 3 out of 4.
If this is a portent of things to come, nobody will benefit and that includes Dublin itself.
Lar let's quit the bullshit. Mayo are the clear favourites for the Minor title as you well know. that's the first point. We're at best joint second and in all reality 3rd.
Population increase means little in regions like Tallaght and Ballyfermot ( populations bigger then Limerick) where the GAA penetration is the equivalent of rugby in Ballymun. Thats' the second point. There are regions in Dublin where GAA has had to largely admit defeat because soccer is so ingrained in the district.
On Kilkenny they are given a free pass to promote one game and not even attempt to promote the other. Its a massive advantage for them. Every kid in Kilkenny plays hurling. Maybe one in ten in Dublin does. And in some areas its more like one in 25.
However its an example of where proper coaching from a young age without a massive chequebook shows some real results.
The GAA was in a hard place 10 years ago- Dublin came with a plan to boost the GAA penetration in the city. At the time Ireland were in the 2002 WC and BOD had just arrived. What were they supposed to do allow the capital city to become a GAA wasteground to suit the agendas
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 08:37:43 PM
The GAA was in a hard place 10 years ago- Dublin came with a plan to boost the GAA penetration in the city. At the time Ireland were in the 2002 WC and BOD had just arrived. What were they supposed to do allow the capital city to become a GAA wasteground to suit the agendas
As I said before, there should be a plan to increase GAA penetration and the money should be spent. But this expenditure must not be allowed create super clubs or giant counties which distort national competition. Tell me what is wrong with this?
Indiana, Mayo have to play the best minor team to come out of Kerry in 30 years before we can start dreaming of back to back minor titles. Therefore Kerry must be favourites.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 11, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
Indiana, Mayo have to play the best minor team to come out of Kerry in 30 years before we can start dreaming of back to back minor titles. Therefore Kerry must be favourites.
Pump 'em 'till they burst.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 08:37:43 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 11, 2014, 08:08:19 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 11:31:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 11, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'
Don't be so immature, there is an issue here and if you cannot come out with a response more useful than implying that those who discuss the issues "hate the Dubs", then you are only confirming the belief that Dubs are trying to distract attention from the issue.
The problems are the competition structures. The provincial championships have to go.
But when Kerry were hockeying teams in Munster for years nobody cared.
Kilkenny hurlers are in the senior, minor , intermediate finals this year. Should they be split in half ?
They have won 5 out of the last 7 all Ireland titles too
What's the difference?
Quite a bit, I would say.
The difference in Kilkenny's case is that the county has only 12 senior and 12 intermediate hurling clubs. At least such was the case a few years ago when I was talking to a CB member.
When you compare Kerry to Cork in Munster, you'll find that Cork has far more playing members than Kerry yet Kerry have more than twice the number of Munster titles that Cork have. (76 to 37)
I would argue that neither county should be penalised for excellence. Cork, Tipp, Galway and others have as many if not more players than Kilkenny and the list of football counties whose resources are greater than Kerry's is a long one.
You can put their success down to sound internal structures or tradition or whatever you think is relevant but the crucial point is that neither county has anything that others can't aspire to.
In Dublin's case, things aren't quite so clear-cut.
While the population of Dublin is increasing rapidly, rural depopulation is a serious issue in many rural counties.
Right now, the Dubs' minors are rated favourites by most pundits for the Tom Markham Cup, the U21s are AI champions and the seniors are going for 3 out of 4.
If this is a portent of things to come, nobody will benefit and that includes Dublin itself.
Lar let's quit the bullshit. Mayo are the clear favourites for the Minor title as you well know. that's the first point. We're at best joint second and in all reality 3rd.
Population increase means little in regions like Tallaght and Ballyfermot ( populations bigger then Limerick) where the GAA penetration is the equivalent of rugby in Ballymun. Thats' the second point. There are regions in Dublin where GAA has had to largely admit defeat because soccer is so ingrained in the district.
On Kilkenny they are given a free pass to promote one game and not even attempt to promote the other. Its a massive advantage for them. Every kid in Kilkenny plays hurling. Maybe one in ten in Dublin does. And in some areas its more like one in 25.
However its an example of where proper coaching from a young age without a massive chequebook shows some real results.
The GAA was in a hard place 10 years ago- Dublin came with a plan to boost the GAA penetration in the city. At the time Ireland were in the 2002 WC and BOD had just arrived. What were they supposed to do allow the capital city to become a GAA wasteground to suit the agendas
Minor All Ireland outright odds has Kerry as slight favourites just ahead of Dublin.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 11, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
Indiana, Mayo have to play the best minor team to come out of Kerry in 30 years before we can start dreaming of back to back minor titles. Therefore Kerry must be favourites.
Kerry haven't won an AI Minor since 1994 which renders the 30 year argument a red herring.
Ah , don't mind us. We're shite at minor and Senior.
Better off focusing the discussion on the teams that have a proper chance at winning.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 08:37:43 PM
The GAA was in a hard place 10 years ago- Dublin came with a plan to boost the GAA penetration in the city. At the time Ireland were in the 2002 WC and BOD had just arrived. What were they supposed to do allow the capital city to become a GAA wasteground to suit the agendas
As I said before, there should be a plan to increase GAA penetration and the money should be spent. But this expenditure must not be allowed create super clubs or giant counties which distort national competition. Tell me what is wrong with this?
Because you can't do it. What do you propose, that Dublin never develop GAA black spots, that they don't coach players to kick off both feet so they don't get too good? We have to try and develop all counties but certain counties will always be stronger due to their size. Dublin are doing everything right so I can't understand why people seem to want to punish them.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 04:06:18 PM
I haven't avoided the issue. You're the one who continually refused to answer anything put in front if you .
Dublin went with a plan to the Gaa and got the funding for it. Nobody denies that.
The 2011 success had nothing to do with funding as the majority of the players on it came from a different era.
For all the talk of expert sports science as we saw at the weekend we only got Fergus Connolly because Monaghan didn't return his phone call.
Again why should Kilkenny be allowed to fully resource their hurling teams with all available funding joke ignoring football as it's a key factor on why they've ruled the roost at hurling for the last 50 years.
We don't waste our money on waste of time outside managers when the reality is every county has management of requisite standard within their own county boundaries.
I answer everything.
The plan wasn't just a Dubl$n one, as you can see in my signature this is what Peter Quinn said at the time "Dublin is not a national problem, it's a national opportunity." The top dogs in HQ saw an opportunity in Dubl$n to make money for the association.
How can they make money for the association? They can bring big crowds in, fill Croke Park, tv viewers, advertising etc. How can we guarantee that? Make them competitive, get more kids playing, improve their hurling. What's the next step? Invest, pour money in, we'll get a return.
That's what they did and do you know what? It worked, Dubl$n does make a lot of money for the association. They regularly fill Croke Park, start of the National league extravaganza always includes Dubl$n, the profile of the GAA is higher with a successful Dubl$n, Dubl$n hurlers used to have a couple of hundred people following them a decade ago, now how many?
All this has come at a cost though. Dubl$n are now competing at a completely different level to everyone else. The money still gets pumped in and why? It's because people still have to get paid, the system doesn't run itself. The strategic planners, the different development officers, the coaches etc etc all have to be paid. This is a professional system operating in an amateur sport, that's the bottom line.
When you add on the resources available to invest in all the numerous development squads at all age levels, the facilities available to them and then the other couple of million to prepare their senior teams yearly then you can see how unfair it is compared to other counties. It's a different planet their living on finance wise.
The 2011 side was backboned by players who came through the system. The older players were there before and destroyed on the big stage, they couldn't have done it without the youngsters. Dubl$n have also won a Leinster hurling championship and a National hurling league that they never would have won without the money. Also there's about 20 underage titles that Dubl$n wouldn't have won.
You look at all sports anywhere and there's only one thing that can guarantee success. That thing is money. You see it in soccer, you see it in rugby, you see it in basketball, Britain invested loads in their track cycling coming up to the Olympics and what happened?
The reason this is all tolerated and not questioned by the media etc is because they're making money also. HQ are happy with a successful Dubl$n, the media is happy with a successful Dubl$n, sponsors are happy with a successful Dubl$n, the Dubs are happy with a successful Dubl$n but is this what the GAA is meant to be about?
Was the GAA set up to make profits for big business corporations? What are all the other counties supposed to do while this is all going on? We can get to Kilkenny playing football, sorting out fairer championship structures and so on later but first we must tackle the biggest problem facing the association right now. That problem is Dubl$n and their huge financial advantage, it will destroy the inter county championships if left go untouched.
Nothing whatsoever to do with size. If all counties had same number of players and clubs you would still have the division between the best, moderate and poorest.
Indiana is 100% right also on the Croke Park was never an advantage for the Dubs a few years ago when Tyrone ( and others) could turn them over in their back yard. The Dubs temperament was questioned continually at the time in throwing away first half leads.
They are a good side at the minute, but don't have any real rivalries in regards of contenders, as may have been the case a few years ago whereby 3-4 teams could possible win the AI. That's not their fault, they can only best what's in front of them.
They won't go on forever, they are beatable, the underage development is bearing fruit but it too at some stage will plateau, other teams will adopt new techniques and catch up, and the world will keep spinning.
Some of the scaremongering on here, you would nearly think world domination was round the corner!
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 10:27:26 PM
Because you can't do it. What do you propose, that Dublin never develop GAA black spots, that they don't coach players to kick off both feet so they don't get too good? We have to try and develop all counties but certain counties will always be stronger due to their size. Dublin are doing everything right so I can't understand why people seem to want to punish them.
What you continue to ignore is money, I don't know why but you always avoid it. Dubl$n pay people big money to do everything right, they have almost unlimited resources to do so. No other county comes within 100 miles of the finance available to Dubl$n. That's why your calls for other counties to try and catch them is nonsense, the money isn't there for them to do that. It's as simple as that.
Agreed.All 31 other counties should ring Croke Park and demand to be given the (insert your own expletive) moolah?
Quote from: Bensars on August 11, 2014, 10:53:51 PM
Indiana is 100% right also on the Croke Park was never an advantage for the Dubs a few years ago when Tyrone ( and others) could turn them over in their back yard. The Dubs temperament was questioned continually at the time in throwing away first half leads
A few years ago when they played their league games in Parnell park?? Kinda proves the point that playing there so often is an advantage.
Of course the AI semi finals and final should be played there but giving the younger Dublin players who play during the league Croke Park experience in Feb / Mar has to be an advantage. It's not why they're so successful at the moment but perhaps it's one of the inches that Al pacino talked about....
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 11, 2014, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on August 11, 2014, 10:53:51 PM
Indiana is 100% right also on the Croke Park was never an advantage for the Dubs a few years ago when Tyrone ( and others) could turn them over in their back yard. The Dubs temperament was questioned continually at the time in throwing away first half leads
perhaps it's one of the inches that Al pacino talked about....
Is he one of the Glenswilly Pacinos?
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 10:27:26 PM
Because you can't do it. What do you propose, that Dublin never develop GAA black spots, that they don't coach players to kick off both feet so they don't get too good? We have to try and develop all counties but certain counties will always be stronger due to their size. Dublin are doing everything right so I can't understand why people seem to want to punish them.
What you continue to ignore is money, I don't know why but you always avoid it. Dubl$n pay people big money to do everything right, they have almost unlimited resources to do so. No other county comes within 100 miles of the finance available to Dubl$n. That's why your calls for other counties to try and catch them is nonsense, the money isn't there for them to do that. It's as simple as that.
That's their problem and yours. Why should Dublin fans give apologies for success and structures. Never a problem when we were losing. You are only here the last couple of years spouting. What are you going to do about it?
And before you say , your ignoring the money issue, the money issue, the money issue, yes i admit it takes money to build an under-age structure such as ours as we have more schools and clubs and coaching requirements, It was a Dublin County board initiative, they should be applauded for the plan. Its a great time to be a Dublin fan, long may it continue, we will make no apologies for it, we will make no apologies for good sponsorship money, biggest show in town and sell a lot of jerseys etc. Enjoy writing your empty posts on here, you need to be writing to the GAA mostly run by non Dubs who take votes on such funding matters.
You are also degrading thousands of volunteers in Dublin, a lot from the country, that put in the hours at all aspects at club level in all codes. Speaks volumes about you.
Another thing, Playing all Dublin's matches at home is an advantage, every single human being and dog knows that, again , not the Dublin GAA fans fault, we crave away trips, The Dubs play were they are told to play. Again, submit in writing to the GAA your grievances about this, the arguments being done to death, the structure of the championship will change and when it does, there will be more home and away games.
In summary, all posters here grievances (Jealousy and general hatred of everything Dublin) regarding Dublin success, funding, home games should be in writing to the GAA headquarters, the address is online, please paste a copy of your letters and reply's here, il even write one to them about away games for the dubs.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 11, 2014, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on August 11, 2014, 10:53:51 PM
Indiana is 100% right also on the Croke Park was never an advantage for the Dubs a few years ago when Tyrone ( and others) could turn them over in their back yard. The Dubs temperament was questioned continually at the time in throwing away first half leads
A few years ago when they played their league games in Parnell park?? Kinda proves the point that playing there so often is an advantage.
Of course the AI semi finals and final should be played there but giving the younger Dublin players who play during the league Croke Park experience in Feb / Mar has to be an advantage. It's not why they're so successful at the moment but perhaps it's one of the inches that Al pacino talked about....
Only A handful of All Ireland's in the last 30 years alone would argue against your point.
In fact it could be argued the it was a negative, in that younger players hadn't room to develop their full potential due the degree of pressure, media spotlight etc.
Cosgroves missed free kick last kick of the game in front of the Hill, ( 2002 against Armagh- I think) springs to mind.
Quote from: Bensars on August 12, 2014, 12:16:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 11, 2014, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on August 11, 2014, 10:53:51 PM
Indiana is 100% right also on the Croke Park was never an advantage for the Dubs a few years ago when Tyrone ( and others) could turn them over in their back yard. The Dubs temperament was questioned continually at the time in throwing away first half leads
A few years ago when they played their league games in Parnell park?? Kinda proves the point that playing there so often is an advantage.
Of course the AI semi finals and final should be played there but giving the younger Dublin players who play during the league Croke Park experience in Feb / Mar has to be an advantage. It's not why they're so successful at the moment but perhaps it's one of the inches that Al pacino talked about....
Only A handful of All Ireland's in the last 30 years alone would argue against your point.
In fact it could be argued the it was a negative, in that younger players hadn't room to develop their full potential due the degree of pressure, media spotlight etc.
Cosgroves missed free kick last kick of the game in front of the Hill, ( 2002 against Armagh- I think) springs to mind.
Home field advantage has a proven correlation with refereeing decisions and win-rates favouring the home team as compared to games at neutral or away venues. The impact of home field increases the higher the attendance. It's true in all team sports, gaelic football is no exception and to try not to even acknowledge Croke Park for what it is to Dublin and instead make out it's been a hindrance at times is grating on me, I've heard that old donkey thrown out to many times in these sorts of debates. It's deflection and deflection not based on facts at that.
We can argue money and numbers all we want but Croke Park is exactly what it appears to be to everyone not wearing Sky Blue glasses - Dublin's home ground.
Ah stop will ya? Comparing Dublin to Man U, the Lakers, The Steelers etc. is patent nonsense. The Dubs play in Croke Park for 3 or 4 league games, 3 or 4 Leinster championship games and 3 or 4 All Ireland series games (if they make the final). In a year where Dublin win the league, Leinster and all Ireland they might play 12 times there and they won't see the inside of the place from 5 months. Most home teams play in front of predominantly home crowds, the Dubs mainly play double headers so if a good portion of the fans from the first game stay they are probably outnumbered in terms of support. Either way it's nothing like a home Man U or Steelers game.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 10:27:26 PM
Because you can't do it. What do you propose, that Dublin never develop GAA black spots, that they don't coach players to kick off both feet so they don't get too good? We have to try and develop all counties but certain counties will always be stronger due to their size. Dublin are doing everything right so I can't understand why people seem to want to punish them.
What you continue to ignore is money, I don't know why but you always avoid it. Dubl$n pay people big money to do everything right, they have almost unlimited resources to do so. No other county comes within 100 miles of the finance available to Dubl$n. That's why your calls for other counties to try and catch them is nonsense, the money isn't there for them to do that. It's as simple as that.
It isn't as simple as that. Dublin, due to its size, needs more money than Laois to just do the same things. There is no reason why many counties can't replicate a lot of what Dublin do at lower levels at least and that will go a long way towards producing better players at senior level.
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 03:11:44 AM
Ah stop will ya? Comparing Dublin to Man U, the Lakers, The Steelers etc. is patent nonsense. The Dubs play in Croke Park for 3 or 4 league games, 3 or 4 Leinster championship games and 3 or 4 All Ireland series games (if they make the final). In a year where Dublin win the league, Leinster and all Ireland they might play 12 times there and they won't see the inside of the place from 5 months. Most home teams play in front of predominantly home crowds, the Dubs mainly play double headers so if a good portion of the fans from the first game stay they are probably outnumbered in terms of support. Either way it's nothing like a home Man U or Steelers game.
And how many games do other counties play at their home grounds? It's less.
The number of games a season is defined by the schedule, it has no impact on the value of home advantage.
None of the teams Dublin have played so far this championship would beat them on any pitch in the country
Mayo outnumbered Dublin in last years all Ireland final
Johnny Doyle played 50 championship matches in Croke park
Wexford were drawn at home to play Dublin a couple of years ago and opted themselves to switch the tie to croke park
One of the worst Dublin teams of recent memory had Kerry beaten in an all Ireland quarter final in thurles a few years ago
The present Dublin team would win the all Ireland on any pitch in the country
The free ratio in Croke park for last years final was 3:1 in favour of Mayo
Games developement money is proportional to the amount of kids the clubs facilitate
Mayo took up their allocation for the hill last year and come in you boys in blue was louder in the stands ( support can't be silenced)
Tyrone and Kerry regularly silenced the hill and put pressure on the Dublin team, at the time the big Dublin support became a disadvantage
Dublin are not the only county with development squads
Most of dublins bright young stars come from family's steeped in GAA
None of the remaining counties would want to play their remaining games anywhere else other than Croke park, I suspect their supporters would hold the same view
Early Leinster rounds involving Dublin should be played in portlaois
The result won't matter, Dublin would win anyway
However I'm pretty sure every Laois supporter preferred beating Dublin in Croker in 03 rather than portlaois
Nearly half way through the decade and Dublin minor footballers have won 1 all Ireland
Dublin in recent decades didn't do well in football at u21 level
They didn't enter the competition
Dublin play a fantastic exciting simple brand of football that any team could copy and improve
The current Dublin squad put in huge effort and make massive personal sacrifices to better themselves on and off the pitch, they are true role models to the youth of the country
Win loose or draw the dubs are magic!
Sunday Business Post Football is moving towards a stale monopoly, yet this is largely being ignored 26 July 2014
Everyone has their own memory of what it once was. But here, it's from 16 years ago, when Kildare finally walked over the line after a lifetime of crawling aimlessly in Leinster. At the final whistle, the man sitting behind the father lifted him out of his chair by the back of the jersey with such force that the fabric couldn't handle it. Meanwhile nearby, another pulled a shovel out from beneath him, charged the field and dug up part of the goalmouth into a plastic bag to bring home as a memento. Each county will tell their own tales, but for future generations the very real fear is that they'll just hear recollections of such outings but never experience them. We're not saying every Leinster final was as significant or moving as the above, but what we are saying is that there are no moving ones any more, such is the predictability, and that in itself is hugely significant. Last Sunday, where once there were pummelling heartbeats and often heartbreak when facing Dublin, there was just the capital having a kickabout. For their first goal against Meath, there weren't the wild celebrations that used to come with a derby final; instead there was a gentle applause at the presumed. Now it's a day out for Dublin, not even a day to remember. And for the rest, it's becoming a day to avoid: why pay to watch your own humiliated? This is just the beginning, though, because if Leinster has slowly been made redundant, the erosion is continuing nationwide. Let's be clear, Dublin haven't done anything wrong, indeed the problem is they've done nearly everything too well. But how they've done it means they are now Manchester City in the second tier, Wladimir Klitschko at middleweight, dual-Derby winner Australia in a grade three race. All in all, football is moving towards a stale monopoly and it's being largely ignored. Of course there are the figures in the east: four in a row and nine out of ten at senior level. But it's far from a once-in-a-generation coming together of great Dublin players. Already it's a ruthless conveyor belt, as anyone who knows their football in the capital will tell you there's better to come as their underage successes and talent show. But mere trophies can do an injustice to the situation, just as a certain rout can be the mistimed start of an argument about unfairness. This is bigger than any one victory or any sole piece of silverware, and needs to be recognised as such. A look at Dublin's corporate dealings gives you an insight into the juggernaut they are. In an environment where even larger counties struggle to get a main sponsor at times, the capital, outside of their remarkable five-year, €4 million deal with AIG, have nine other official partners and counting. These range from Toyota providing kit vans and cars, to water suppliers, a health food provider, performance gear provider, a hotel partner, a menswear partner, a nutrition sponsor, and all the while they've Aer Lingus as official airline. Obviously that alone doesn't bring success but it does provide one of the three pillars that makes them too strong. Outside of so much finance, they've the population too. Dublin not only has twice the number of people of Connacht and a greater population than Munster, it also has a greater population than the rest of Leinster and the Gaelic games playing community in the north. In short, Dublin as a province would be the biggest in the country as Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown matches Kildare for numbers while Fingal and South Dublin have populations that only Antrim and Cork are greater than. In this area, there's a notion they've other sports to contend with but, relatively, name a GAA club in any town that doesn't. Besides, where once money was pumped into Dublin due to a fear of Leinster rugby taking over swathes of the city, now the fear should be that rugby will take over large swathes of the rest of the province as others turn their backs on a game they can't compete in, never mind win at. What completes the triangle for Dublin is testament to their organisation, as they've the structures in place too. They've put their money and size to good use as well as their ex-players as they've a network of facilities and coaches unmatched elsewhere. It's little wonder that back in 2011 their 'Blue Wave' document spoke of dominating the game at all levels, and they are well on the way. Other counties can indeed learn from the best, but they can never be the best because to mimic Dublin means they can only ever follow at a much slower pace, having started way behind. Be sure to remember this isn't Kerry or Kilkenny in terms of glory as that's an argument as easy as it is flawed. Others can do what they've done and achieve just as much, but others can never do what Dublin have done. In the past they were flawed behind the scenes, and in the past the sport was different, but as the game becomes more about science than sweat and moves to a higher plane of professionalism, it'll expose the system more and pronounce Dublin's advantages more. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy too as the more they win, the more of its vast, young population will become interested in the sport, the more sponsors will want to be associated with a brand nearly as big as the GAA itself and the more they win again. Their dominance will become exponential. The GAA of course has an obligation to get more and more people to play the game and that includes in Dublin. But there's a conflict of interest there because they've also to rule over their premier competition without bias. They've done the former too well to the point that they're decimated the latter. Give Dublin their due, but all their rights have made this feel very wrong.
Not a mention of playing numbers at adult level
A very one sided unbalanced article IMO
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 11, 2014, 11:33:53 PM
Yes we know we've been bought success but we don't care.
That's basically what you're saying.
My take on this is that Dublin have done nothing wrong at all. They have been given a great opportunity and have grasped it with both hands and have both made serious inroads in terms of playing population, and have raised their standards through excellent coaching.
That the 1.3 or 1.4 million per annum has helped in this area would appear to be a no brainer. Of course it helps. If not, why give the money in the first place?
I'm loathe to agree with Don't Matter's hyperbole, but I do find myself agreeing with some of the things he said. This massive central council investment in Dublin has worked, and the results are clear. But are we going to keep pumping 1.4 million p.a. ad infinitum? If that's the case, the gap between Dublin and the rest is just going to widen, unless even more money can be found and invested in the other counties.
I'm not sure what the correct approach here is, and I wouldn't like to 'punish' dublin for being excellent and for using their money brilliantly, but you have to help other counties get to that standard, or at least reduce the funding Dublin get for Games Development now that they've had over 10 years of it.
People born in Dublin are not innately better than players anywhere else. The last 100 years have taught us that. Their population and pick is big, but not hugely bigger than some other big counties when you take into account the other competing sports. But making a 'project' of an already strong county, and helping them set up a seriously well run machine while at the same time paying scant regard to other counties Games Development, is a bit mad from a 'competition' perspective.
I don't begrudge Dublin the commercial deals from AIG etc. They get that because they are the 'dubs'. That's always been part of the magic of Dublin. But I do have an issue with the Games Development funding at the moment.
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 03:14:18 AM
It isn't as simple as that. Dublin, due to its size, needs more money than Laois to just do the same things. There is no reason why many counties can't replicate a lot of what Dublin do at lower levels at least and that will go a long way towards producing better players at senior level.
Talking nonsense again. Strategic development officers, regional development officers, hurling development officers etc would cost the same amount in any county. It's just that only one county has the money to pay them and they get the money for that off all of us. How can anyone justify this? Ordinary citizens money is being pumped into one county alone while every other county is living off scraps. That's why no other county would be able to come close to replicating what Dubl$n do at lower levels. It IS as simple as that. Money buys success.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 08:37:43 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 11, 2014, 08:08:19 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2014, 11:31:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 11, 2014, 11:12:19 AM
there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'
Don't be so immature, there is an issue here and if you cannot come out with a response more useful than implying that those who discuss the issues "hate the Dubs", then you are only confirming the belief that Dubs are trying to distract attention from the issue.
The problems are the competition structures. The provincial championships have to go.
But when Kerry were hockeying teams in Munster for years nobody cared.
Kilkenny hurlers are in the senior, minor , intermediate finals this year. Should they be split in half ?
They have won 5 out of the last 7 all Ireland titles too
What's the difference?
Quite a bit, I would say.
The difference in Kilkenny's case is that the county has only 12 senior and 12 intermediate hurling clubs. At least such was the case a few years ago when I was talking to a CB member.
When you compare Kerry to Cork in Munster, you'll find that Cork has far more playing members than Kerry yet Kerry have more than twice the number of Munster titles that Cork have. (76 to 37)
I would argue that neither county should be penalised for excellence. Cork, Tipp, Galway and others have as many if not more players than Kilkenny and the list of football counties whose resources are greater than Kerry's is a long one.
You can put their success down to sound internal structures or tradition or whatever you think is relevant but the crucial point is that neither county has anything that others can't aspire to.
In Dublin's case, things aren't quite so clear-cut.
While the population of Dublin is increasing rapidly, rural depopulation is a serious issue in many rural counties.
Right now, the Dubs' minors are rated favourites by most pundits for the Tom Markham Cup, the U21s are AI champions and the seniors are going for 3 out of 4.
If this is a portent of things to come, nobody will benefit and that includes Dublin itself.
Lar let's quit the bullshit. Mayo are the clear favourites for the Minor title as you well know. that's the first point. We're at best joint second and in all reality 3rd.
Population increase means little in regions like Tallaght and Ballyfermot ( populations bigger then Limerick) where the GAA penetration is the equivalent of rugby in Ballymun. Thats' the second point. There are regions in Dublin where GAA has had to largely admit defeat because soccer is so ingrained in the district.
On Kilkenny they are given a free pass to promote one game and not even attempt to promote the other. Its a massive advantage for them. Every kid in Kilkenny plays hurling. Maybe one in ten in Dublin does. And in some areas its more like one in 25.
However its an example of where proper coaching from a young age without a massive chequebook shows some real results.
The GAA was in a hard place 10 years ago- Dublin came with a plan to boost the GAA penetration in the city. At the time Ireland were in the 2002 WC and BOD had just arrived. What were they supposed to do allow the capital city to become a GAA wasteground to suit the agendas
Dunno where you are getting your odds from, Indy, but it sure ain't the bookies!
Captain Obvious has given you the bookies' odds and they don't agree with you, to put it mildly.
You are dead right that large parts of the city have no interest in Gaelic games but building up super clubs or elite county teams isn't going to change that fact.
Down around Pullawaddy and Crucksbullaghadawn the talk is about "wastegrounds" also but it's not a lack of interest in Gaelic games that is the problem; it's the lack of people in the town or locality.
Right along the western seaboard and indeed many places further inland, rural depopulation isn't just a fancy phrase, it's a fact of life. Clubs are going out of existence or amalgamating with neighbouring ones in a desperate effort to keep going.
So names like Doora/Barefield or Shrule/Glencorrib tell their own tale. The flight from the land isn't confined to rural areas either; what about Salthill/Knocknacarra in Galway city?
Make no mistake about it, the future viability of the GAA is under threat in more areas than the Pale.
Can't agree with you about Kilkenny either. Foe one thing, soccer is quite strong in that county and hurling doesn't get al it's own way. What about Kerry? Hurling is the no. 1 game in North Kerry and yet in terms of resources and playing numbers, The Kingdom punches well above its weight.
Meantime, the GHAA as a national body is a loser as the population of Dublin increases by leaps and bounds while just about all rural areas show a worrying decline. Something has to be done to maintain a semblance of a level playing field for all.
The obvious answer is to divide Dublin in four as the county has been quartered already for local government affairs. The reasons for doing so are many and most are self-obvious so I don't propose going into detail here but for the sake of the GAA's future, some pragmatic actions are required.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 12, 2014, 10:30:21 AM
My take on this is that Dublin have done nothing wrong at all. They have been given a great opportunity and have grasped it with both hands and have both made serious inroads in terms of playing population, and have raised their standards through excellent coaching.
That the 1.3 or 1.4 million per annum has helped in this area would appear to be a no brainer. Of course it helps. If not, why give the money in the first place?
I'm loathe to agree with Don't Matter's hyperbole, but I do find myself agreeing with some of the things he said. This massive central council investment in Dublin has worked, and the results are clear. But are we going to keep pumping 1.4 million p.a. ad infinitum? If that's the case, the gap between Dublin and the rest is just going to widen, unless even more money can be found and invested in the other counties.
I'm not sure what the correct approach here is, and I wouldn't like to 'punish' dublin for being excellent and for using their money brilliantly, but you have to help other counties get to that standard, or at least reduce the funding Dublin get for Games Development now that they've had over 10 years of it.
People born in Dublin are not innately better than players anywhere else. The last 100 years have taught us that. Their population and pick is big, but not hugely bigger than some other big counties when you take into account the other competing sports. But making a 'project' of an already strong county, and helping them set up a seriously well run machine while at the same time paying scant regard to other counties Games Development, is a bit mad from a 'competition' perspective.
I don't begrudge Dublin the commercial deals from AIG etc. They get that because they are the 'dubs'. That's always been part of the magic of Dublin. But I do have an issue with the Games Development funding at the moment.
good post, I would agree with all of that.
Re: the home games thing, that is something that definitely needs looked at and without doubt is an advantage to Dublin.
A very good article there posted by the lily.
Biffo, the Dubs feel entitled to this money. If there's any talk of withdrawing the funds you'll here great stink coming out of them. They go on about saying the money isn't what has brought success but wait for the uproar when someone even suggests to take it away.
The commercial deals have increased hugely due to the success of their senior teams, their senior teams have gained success due to the money provided by every citizen in Ireland. Basically aig wouldn't have come in without our money.
The damage is done, the Dubs took the money and deep down they knew this day would come. They may enjoy their success now before the split takes place, the split is the only option. The only alternative to that is to let one county dominate for years, it would kill Gaelic Games.
Time the GAA at Central level addressed the lack of penetration of Gaelic games in Belfast City ( 115,000 Nationalist population), Derry City ( 60,000 ? Nat), Galway City for a start.
Dublin already has enough natural advantages e.g at least 130,000 males between 18 and 32 compared to 5,000 in Roscommon/Monaghan,Cavan etc without getting special help as well. Also their players have short trips to training rather than long tiresome journeys to and from getting to bed at maybe 2 a.m. Not to mention all their games at home and GAA HQ being basically another arm of their organisation.
GAA HQ needs to look at Leinster too where the Senior Inter County Championship is now meaningless and young lads are turning to rugby and soccer in droves. Kildare and Meath who have big populations and used to have massive followings now have less supporters than the likes of Cavan,Monaghan Ros etc. Then there's Wicklow....... :-[[
Great that the numbers playing Gaelic games are getting bigger in Dublin and long may it do so but it's time for some radical thinking ahead ( going forward Godhelpus ::)) now that there's a monster been created.
Make Dublin a Province , 4 Counties, Give each Province a Games development budget with special emphasis on improving Gaelic games penetration in the weaker areas and see how she goes.
i think 5 in a Row is the Gold standard by which you get to casll yourselfves the greatest.
though Like the rush for Pope John Paul II im not sure patience in in plentyful enough supply to wait untill 2017 before they are cononised
Quote from: Rossfan on August 12, 2014, 10:49:16 AM
Time the GAA at Central level addressed the lack of penetration of Gaelic games in Belfast City ( 115,000 Nationalist population), Derry City ( 60,000 ? Nat), Galway City for a start.
Dublin already has enough natural advantages e.g at least 130,000 males between 18 and 32 compared to 5,000 in Roscommon/Monaghan,Cavan etc without getting special help as well. Also their players have short trips to training rather than long tiresome journeys to and from getting to bed at maybe 2 a.m. Not to mention all their games at home and GAA HQ being basically another arm of their organisation.
GAA HQ needs to look at Leinster too where the Senior Inter County Championship is now meaningless and young lads are turning to rugby and soccer in droves. Kildare and Meath who have big populations and used to have massive followings now have less supporters than the likes of Cavan,Monaghan Ros etc. Then there's Wicklow....... :-[[
Great that the numbers playing Gaelic games are getting bigger in Dublin and long may it do so but it's time for some radical thinking ahead ( going forward Godhelpus ::)) now that there's a monster been created.
Make Dublin a Province , 4 Counties, Give each Province a Games development budget with special emphasis on improving Gaelic games penetration in the weaker areas and see how she goes.
so would Mayo and kerry be entiltiled to extra help as they both Face the same disadvantages as most of the counties mentioned?
Mayowestros should be abolished. :P
I was specifically addressing Leinster where 3 Counties with massive populations are turning/have turned into GAA wastelands.
I'm sure there are areas of Mayo and Kerry where Gaelic games are not strong and could do with aid.
As for journeys to/from training Aiden O' Shea says going home to work in Mayo improved his football no end.
I don't agree with splitting Dublin up. I think we'll just have to live with this serious team for a fair few years. You'll always have a challenger to them, I mean they've only won one in a row at the moment, and Kerry, Donegal and Mayo will all fancy a rattle at this machine.
But if Dublin had to make the same decisions with finance that other counties have, then it might level the playing field at the underage levels and in terms of supply. Either that, or get a national games development structure in place with a clear pathway to PROPER funding for all other counties. Dublin will always only be able to play 15 players, and tog out 26 or 30. If the other counties have enough paid coaches, and finances for their development squads without scrimping and scraping because they don't have the money, then they too could start having production lines of talent.
I've had to fight for €400 to send a bus to an away game. I've had to refuse challenge match requests. And that's simply down to us not having the money for it. The money might be spent on other things, and the rights and wrongs of that are a moot point, but it doesn't seem to me that the Dubs have to make decisions like that.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 03:14:18 AM
It isn't as simple as that. Dublin, due to its size, needs more money than Laois to just do the same things. There is no reason why many counties can't replicate a lot of what Dublin do at lower levels at least and that will go a long way towards producing better players at senior level.
Talking nonsense again. Strategic development officers, regional development officers, hurling development officers etc would cost the same amount in any county. It's just that only one county has the money to pay them and they get the money for that off all of us. How can anyone justify this? Ordinary citizens money is being pumped into one county alone while every other county is living off scraps. That's why no other county would be able to come close to replicating what Dubl$n do at lower levels. It IS as simple as that. Money buys success.
Utter nonsense. Cork have 5 GDA's the last I heard (covering both football and hurling), yet have millions to pump into P Ui C. They might have more GDA's now but it certainly isn't enough to properly cater for Cork and the county board and some of their clubs have the money to address that if they wanted to. Other counties can afford and can apply for funding to get more GDA's if they want and put a plan in place to do so.
By the way, if Dublin can now afford to take on more of the financial burden and reduce Central council funding then of course they should do that. My view has always been that the GAA should help all counties maximise their potential but you can't do that by giving everyone the same amount. You target certain counties for particular attention and once they get to where Dublin is you move on. Most counties wouldn't need the same level of funding Dublin get to maximise their potential because they don't have to reach as big a population.
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 03:14:18 AM
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 10:27:26 PM
Because you can't do it. What do you propose, that Dublin never develop GAA black spots, that they don't coach players to kick off both feet so they don't get too good? We have to try and develop all counties but certain counties will always be stronger due to their size. Dublin are doing everything right so I can't understand why people seem to want to punish them.
What you continue to ignore is money, I don't know why but you always avoid it. Dubl$n pay people big money to do everything right, they have almost unlimited resources to do so. No other county comes within 100 miles of the finance available to Dubl$n. That's why your calls for other counties to try and catch them is nonsense, the money isn't there for them to do that. It's as simple as that.
It isn't as simple as that. Dublin, due to its size, needs more money than Laois to just do the same things. There is no reason why many counties can't replicate a lot of what Dublin do at lower levels at least and that will go a long way towards producing better players at senior level.
Zulu,
Most of the dub supporters on here seem like sound skins, but I heard something over the weekend that may challenge above point.
When Dublin finish training they are provided with packed meals for next two day until they are back again at training.
I was in croke park on sat, an all Ireland q final was over after 25 mins, not dublins fault, but the gaa surely cannot ignore the elephant in the room for much longer.
Either provide other counties with similar coaching resources at underage for next 10 years, or else a lot of people could end up staying at home from games.
How difficult will it be for managers of the non top eight teams to get their players out training in November and to get the financing to prepare same.
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:13:16 AM
Utter nonsense. Cork have 5 GDA's the last I heard (covering both football and hurling), yet have millions to pump into P Ui C. They might have more GDA's now but it certainly isn't enough to properly cater for Cork and the county board and some of their clubs have the money to address that if they wanted to. Other counties can afford and can apply for funding to get more GDA's if they want and put a plan in place to do so.
By the way, if Dublin can now afford to take on more of the financial burden and reduce Central council funding then of course they should do that. My view has always been that the GAA should help all counties maximise their potential but you can't do that by giving everyone the same amount. You target certain counties for particular attention and once they get to where Dublin is you move on. Most counties wouldn't need the same level of funding Dublin get to maximise their potential because they don't have to reach as big a population.
We're not talking about facilities, Cork are getting assistance for Páirc Uí Chaoimh just as Dubl$n got assistance for their home stadium Croke Park. Where will all the other counties get the money for these games development officers? How will they pay all the coaches? Does the GAA have money to cover everyone? Will ordinary citizens be happy to pay for these plans? The money isn't there, the GAA invest in Dubl$n because they get a return on the investment. It's a business move.
Your suggestion in the second paragraph is crazy. You want to improve certain counties but leave the rest behind, what are they meant to do? Just sit and watch other counties get special funding and see Gaelic Games destroyed in their county. Joke.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 12, 2014, 10:59:46 AM
Mayowestros should be abolished. :P
I was specifically addressing Leinster where 3 Counties with massive populations are turning/have turned into GAA wastelands.
I'm sure there are areas of Mayo and Kerry where Gaelic games are not strong and could do with aid.
As for journeys to/from training Aiden O' Shea says going home to work in Mayo improved his football no end.
I can safely say club football and hurling has never been stronger in terms of quality in Kildare, however there is now an apathy towards the County team, Dublin's domination of Leinster is a factor accelerated by the SJ fiasco and the McGeeney removal as County manager both related to Kildare's blind desire to compete with Dublin. Dublin don't care about Leinster despite the embarrassing lip service they sometimes pay but why should they much like Kerry their barometer of success is AIs and a weak Leinster only improves that opportunity of success.
I think the penny has finally dropped this isn't Dublin's problem they didn't create this monster the GAA did.
As for commercial opportunities if you had a few sponsors sponsoring every county jersey surely that would be more lucrative to the GAA from which they could start funding all teams equally than 32 separate deals which only benefits the richer counties. The GAA is suppose to have socialist ideals does it not?
Say what you like about Dont Matter but his dedication to using the $ in Dublin everytime is remarkable....
Quote from: joemamas on August 12, 2014, 11:29:27 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 03:14:18 AM
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 11, 2014, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2014, 10:27:26 PM
Because you can't do it. What do you propose, that Dublin never develop GAA black spots, that they don't coach players to kick off both feet so they don't get too good? We have to try and develop all counties but certain counties will always be stronger due to their size. Dublin are doing everything right so I can't understand why people seem to want to punish them.
What you continue to ignore is money, I don't know why but you always avoid it. Dubl$n pay people big money to do everything right, they have almost unlimited resources to do so. No other county comes within 100 miles of the finance available to Dubl$n. That's why your calls for other counties to try and catch them is nonsense, the money isn't there for them to do that. It's as simple as that.
It isn't as simple as that. Dublin, due to its size, needs more money than Laois to just do the same things. There is no reason why many counties can't replicate a lot of what Dublin do at lower levels at least and that will go a long way towards producing better players at senior level.
Zulu,
Most of the dub supporters on here seem like sound skins, but I heard something over the weekend that may challenge above point.
When Dublin finish training they are provided with packed meals for next two day until they are back again at training.
I was in croke park on sat, an all Ireland q final was over after 25 mins, not dublins fault, but the gaa surely cannot ignore the elephant in the room for much longer.
Either provide other counties with similar coaching resources at underage for next 10 years, or else a lot of people could end up staying at home from games.
How difficult will it be for managers of the non top eight teams to get their players out training in November and to get the financing to prepare same.
Joe, I'm not talking about the senior set up but there has always been county set ups far in advance of others. When I played county minor, we turned up one year without any footballs as the manager and gear were in the bus carrying the lads from the other side of the county and they arrived 5 minutes before throw in. In my last year as an U21 we had, maybe two training sessions (I actually can't remember having any but I'm presuming we had one or two) before we played Kerry even though we were in the Munster final the previous year. Money has always played a part in helping some counties succeed while others faltered.
The point I'm making is there is money to invest and counties can apply for funding to improve underage development if they have a good plan. They may not be able to match the Dubs finance for their senior squads but they can do a better job at underage, Roscommon and Cavan are two examples of this.
Quote from: ballinaman on August 12, 2014, 11:35:54 AM
Say what you like about Dont Matter but his dedication to using the $ in Dublin everytime is remarkable....
It's nice to see commitment in this day and age.
He would make a great corner back. Dogged and never lets up!!
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:13:16 AM
Utter nonsense. Cork have 5 GDA's the last I heard (covering both football and hurling), yet have millions to pump into P Ui C. They might have more GDA's now but it certainly isn't enough to properly cater for Cork and the county board and some of their clubs have the money to address that if they wanted to. Other counties can afford and can apply for funding to get more GDA's if they want and put a plan in place to do so.
By the way, if Dublin can now afford to take on more of the financial burden and reduce Central council funding then of course they should do that. My view has always been that the GAA should help all counties maximise their potential but you can't do that by giving everyone the same amount. You target certain counties for particular attention and once they get to where Dublin is you move on. Most counties wouldn't need the same level of funding Dublin get to maximise their potential because they don't have to reach as big a population.
We're not talking about facilities, Cork are getting assistance for Páirc Uí Chaoimh just as Dubl$n got assistance for their home stadium Croke Park. Where will all the other counties get the money for these games development officers? How will they pay all the coaches? Does the GAA have money to cover everyone? Will ordinary citizens be happy to pay for these plans? The money isn't there, the GAA invest in Dubl$n because they get a return on the investment. It's a business move.
Your suggestion in the second paragraph is crazy. You want to improve certain counties but leave the rest behind, what are they meant to do? Just sit and watch other counties get special funding and see Gaelic Games destroyed in their county. Joke.
I'm not talking about facilities either. Cork had in the region of €10 million in the bank some of which they could have used to fund more GDA's yet they've decided to use it all on a stadium instead. That's a choice Cork have made but the money was there.
Of course investment in Dublin is about a return and so it should be, no point pissing money away on anybody. If other counties get a plan together, show why they need they money then it is there for them. But they also need to provide a return on this investment which is only right and proper.
Errr no, but by giving everyone the same you'll end up helping few if anyone. The idea is not to leave anyone behind but to build up everyone in stages. There has to be a plan when investing millions of euros otherwise their is no acceptability, no way of ensuring the money is being well spent and no way of tracking improvements. Why the hell would anyone argue that it's better to give both county A and B €100,000 each if it is quite clear county A use this money well while county B are pissing it away? Would it not make more sense to give more to the county using it well and providing a return on the investment and giving less to county B while telling them if you get your act together you'll get the money back?
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:13:16 AM
Utter nonsense. Cork have 5 GDA's the last I heard (covering both football and hurling), yet have millions to pump into P Ui C. They might have more GDA's now but it certainly isn't enough to properly cater for Cork and the county board and some of their clubs have the money to address that if they wanted to. Other counties can afford and can apply for funding to get more GDA's if they want and put a plan in place to do so.
By the way, if Dublin can now afford to take on more of the financial burden and reduce Central council funding then of course they should do that. My view has always been that the GAA should help all counties maximise their potential but you can't do that by giving everyone the same amount. You target certain counties for particular attention and once they get to where Dublin is you move on. Most counties wouldn't need the same level of funding Dublin get to maximise their potential because they don't have to reach as big a population.
We're not talking about facilities, Cork are getting assistance for Páirc Uí Chaoimh just as Dubl$n got assistance for their home stadium Croke Park. Where will all the other counties get the money for these games development officers? How will they pay all the coaches? Does the GAA have money to cover everyone? Will ordinary citizens be happy to pay for these plans? The money isn't there, the GAA invest in Dubl$n because they get a return on the investment. It's a business move.
Your suggestion in the second paragraph is crazy. You want to improve certain counties but leave the rest behind, what are they meant to do? Just sit and watch other counties get special funding and see Gaelic Games destroyed in their county. Joke.
do Dublin own croke park?
They seem to own the Hill 16 part, at least.
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
I'm not talking about facilities either. Cork had in the region of €10 million in the bank some of which they could have used to fund more GDA's yet they've decided to use it all on a stadium instead. That's a choice Cork have made but the money was there.
Of course investment in Dublin is about a return and so it should be, no point pissing money away on anybody. If other counties get a plan together, show why they need they money then it is there for them. But they also need to provide a return on this investment which is only right and proper.
Errr no, but by giving everyone the same you'll end up helping few if anyone. The idea is not to leave anyone behind but to build up everyone in stages. There has to be a plan when investing millions of euros otherwise their is no acceptability, no way of ensuring the money is being well spent and no way of tracking improvements. Why the hell would anyone argue that it's better to give both county A and B €100,000 each if it is quite clear county A use this money well while county B are pissing it away? Would it not make more sense to give more to the county using it well and providing a return on the investment and giving less to county B while telling them if you get your act together you'll get the money back?
Stadiums like Corks have to be done. It's not just GDA's that have Dubl$n where they are.
The aim should be to improve all counties equally, give everyone a fair chance to compete. A strategic programme manager and team should be appointed to every county. They formalise a plan and assess what's needed for the county they're assigned to. They go back to HQ with the report and the cost of implementing it. Obviously some counties will need more money and some less.
This way you'll have accountability, everyone will know where the money is going so it wont and can't be wasted, every county will have proper structures in place to produce talent and increase playing numbers in Gaelic Games and most of all it's FAIR for every county.
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2014, 12:24:32 PM
They seem to own the Hill 16 part, at least.
the hill was open to all patrons last Saturday and was pretty full
The hill was open to all patrons the previous Sunday and was pretty empty
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 12:31:06 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
I'm not talking about facilities either. Cork had in the region of €10 million in the bank some of which they could have used to fund more GDA's yet they've decided to use it all on a stadium instead. That's a choice Cork have made but the money was there.
Of course investment in Dublin is about a return and so it should be, no point pissing money away on anybody. If other counties get a plan together, show why they need they money then it is there for them. But they also need to provide a return on this investment which is only right and proper.
Errr no, but by giving everyone the same you'll end up helping few if anyone. The idea is not to leave anyone behind but to build up everyone in stages. There has to be a plan when investing millions of euros otherwise their is no acceptability, no way of ensuring the money is being well spent and no way of tracking improvements. Why the hell would anyone argue that it's better to give both county A and B €100,000 each if it is quite clear county A use this money well while county B are pissing it away? Would it not make more sense to give more to the county using it well and providing a return on the investment and giving less to county B while telling them if you get your act together you'll get the money back?
likewise croke park needed re developement
The rest of your post is your best yet! Good work and good idea.
Stadiums like Corks have to be done. It's not just GDA's that have Dubl$n where they are.
The aim should be to improve all counties equally, give everyone a fair chance to compete. A strategic programme manager and team should be appointed to every county. They formalise a plan and assess what's needed for the county they're assigned to. They go back to HQ with the report and the cost of implementing it. Obviously some counties will need more money and some less.
This way you'll have accountability, everyone will know where the money is going so it wont and can't be wasted, every county will have proper structures in place to produce talent and increase playing numbers in Gaelic Games and most of all it's FAIR for every county.
All messing aside, I've never seen any teams fans as confident as Dublin fans are right now. Even if you factor in Dublin fans natural cockiness its absolutely amazing what is going on. There is a Kerry v Mayo thread over on reservoirdubs.com and almost all the responses are in the form of "I'd rather get Mayo/Kerry in the final...". Donegal must be loving this.
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 12, 2014, 12:09:49 PM
do Dublin own croke park?
They haven't played a championship football game away from Croke Park since 2006, all league home games played there, they get to choose their dressing room, which side of the pitch they warm up on, get to train there when others are not allowed, as J70 says they get a whole section of the stadium for their fans only.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 12:36:58 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 12, 2014, 12:09:49 PM
do Dublin own croke park?
They haven't played a championship football game away from Croke Park since 2006, all league home games played there, they get to choose their dressing room, which side of the pitch they warm up on, get to train there when others are not allowed, as J70 says they get a whole section of the stadium for their fans only.
In fairness Don't Matter plenty of Mayomen and women went on the Hill for last years final and looking from the Cusack stand it looked split 50/50 with Mayo and Dublin fans. My brother was on the hill and he said it was grand apart form the usual result we get in finals :'(
I think a lot of counties and fans swap their Hill 16 allocation for stand tickets but last year due to money being tight anyone who had no problem standing for a few hours took a Hill ticket gladly.
Quote from: Bensars on August 12, 2014, 12:16:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 11, 2014, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on August 11, 2014, 10:53:51 PM
Indiana is 100% right also on the Croke Park was never an advantage for the Dubs a few years ago when Tyrone ( and others) could turn them over in their back yard. The Dubs temperament was questioned continually at the time in throwing away first half leads
A few years ago when they played their league games in Parnell park?? Kinda proves the point that playing there so often is an advantage.
Of course the AI semi finals and final should be played there but giving the younger Dublin players who play during the league Croke Park experience in Feb / Mar has to be an advantage. It's not why they're so successful at the moment but perhaps it's one of the inches that Al pacino talked about....
Only A handful of All Ireland's in the last 30 years alone would argue against your point.
In fact it could be argued the it was a negative, in that younger players hadn't room to develop their full potential due the degree of pressure, media spotlight etc.
Cosgroves missed free kick last kick of the game in front of the Hill, ( 2002 against Armagh- I think) springs to mind.
It seems like you're missing my point entirely.
Since 2010, Dublin have played all their league games (3-4 games) in Croke Park - this is an advantage to them as they (and their younger players in particular) are significantly more familiar with Croke Park than other teams as a result.
If Cosgrave had played all his league games for the previous two seasons in Corke Park, then perhaps that last-minute kick would have been different
The whole Croke park discussion is a different topic. Dublin have always had those advantages, and to be honest I think most Dubs would prefer an auld spin down the country for a couple of provincial games.
I've already said that it's advantageous to have your whole routine down pat all year, every year, for the championship, but that's been the case for many years now and it's not the reason for the current team's success. It may be a contributory factor but it's in the ha'penny place compared to the type of player they are producing from their underage structures and club games, and the preparation that is going into these teams.
The brutal truth is that Dublin would beat at least 26 or 27 counties in Ireland in their own home pitch 10 times out of 10, at the moment.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 12, 2014, 12:48:08 PM
The brutal truth is that Dublin would beat at least 26 or 27 counties in Ireland in their own home pitch 10 times out of 10, at the moment.
This Dublin team are so good they'd beat all 32 counties combined 15 times out of 10.
.......even if Larry Reilly was playing.
Well, relax now. Let's not go that far. Larry Reilly would change the whole situation immediately. You'd need to pump in at least €15 trillion to counteract the Larry Reilly effect.
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:13:16 AM
Utter nonsense. Cork have 5 GDA's the last I heard (covering both football and hurling), yet have millions to pump into P Ui C. They might have more GDA's now but it certainly isn't enough to properly cater for Cork and the county board and some of their clubs have the money to address that if they wanted to. Other counties can afford and can apply for funding to get more GDA's if they want and put a plan in place to do so.
By the way, if Dublin can now afford to take on more of the financial burden and reduce Central council funding then of course they should do that. My view has always been that the GAA should help all counties maximise their potential but you can't do that by giving everyone the same amount. You target certain counties for particular attention and once they get to where Dublin is you move on. Most counties wouldn't need the same level of funding Dublin get to maximise their potential because they don't have to reach as big a population.
We're not talking about facilities, Cork are getting assistance for Páirc Uí Chaoimh just as Dubl$n got assistance for their home stadium Croke Park. Where will all the other counties get the money for these games development officers? How will they pay all the coaches? Does the GAA have money to cover everyone? Will ordinary citizens be happy to pay for these plans? The money isn't there, the GAA invest in Dubl$n because they get a return on the investment. It's a business move.
Your suggestion in the second paragraph is crazy. You want to improve certain counties but leave the rest behind, what are they meant to do? Just sit and watch other counties get special funding and see Gaelic Games destroyed in their county. Joke.
I'm not talking about facilities either. Cork had in the region of €10 million in the bank some of which they could have used to fund more GDA's yet they've decided to use it all on a stadium instead. That's a choice Cork have made but the money was there.
Of course investment in Dublin is about a return and so it should be, no point pissing money away on anybody. If other counties get a plan together, show why they need they money then it is there for them. But they also need to provide a return on this investment which is only right and proper.
Errr no, but by giving everyone the same you'll end up helping few if anyone. The idea is not to leave anyone behind but to build up everyone in stages. There has to be a plan when investing millions of euros otherwise their is no acceptability, no way of ensuring the money is being well spent and no way of tracking improvements. Why the hell would anyone argue that it's better to give both county A and B €100,000 each if it is quite clear county A use this money well while county B are pissing it away? Would it not make more sense to give more to the county using it well and providing a return on the investment and giving less to county B while telling them if you get your act together you'll get the money back?
Zulu,
you continually make the point about Cork deciding to put resources into a Stadium and Tyrone putting over £7m into a centre of excellence as that was their choice rather than spend it on full time coaches, but you've got to admit that there's no requirement for Dublin to make these sorts of outlays as they've got Croke Park on their door and numerous university campuses with state of the art facilities for them to train on.
There's no state of the art facilities in Tyrone, so I can see why they might do it, also a city the size of Cork needed to do something with their stadium to bring it up to scratch, but whilst the GAA may add some sort of financial assistance, they're not funding it in its entirety. This is just to keep up with Dublin on this level, but leaves them sorely lacking in other regards.
Lets not kid ourselves, Dublin by being the capital and hence a huge population have an advantage, but its only now they're making it count and fair play to them, but I think the GAA may now feel the need to reel back on the granting to Dublin but they'd still be way ahead of the rest.
As for Kilkenny only concentrating on hurling giving them an advantage, there's about 20 other counties this could be leveled at in terms of concentrating only in football!
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 12, 2014, 01:07:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 12, 2014, 12:48:08 PM
The brutal truth is that Dublin would beat at least 26 or 27 counties in Ireland in their own home pitch 10 times out of 10, at the moment.
This Dublin team are so good they'd beat all 32 counties combined 15 times out of 10.
.......even if Larry Reilly was playing.
Larry Reilly had 15 kids with 15 different women in the same year.
Four years later they formed an All-Ireland minor winning Cavan team.
Football AND hurling.
5 of them were subsequently found to be female.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 12, 2014, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 12, 2014, 01:07:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 12, 2014, 12:48:08 PM
The brutal truth is that Dublin would beat at least 26 or 27 counties in Ireland in their own home pitch 10 times out of 10, at the moment.
This Dublin team are so good they'd beat all 32 counties combined 15 times out of 10.
.......even if Larry Reilly was playing.
Larry Reilly had 15 kids with 15 different women in the same year.
Four years later they formed an All-Ireland minor winning Cavan team.
Football AND hurling.
5 of them were subsequently found to be female.
That is known as the year of The Big Bang.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 12, 2014, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:13:16 AM
Utter nonsense. Cork have 5 GDA's the last I heard (covering both football and hurling), yet have millions to pump into P Ui C. They might have more GDA's now but it certainly isn't enough to properly cater for Cork and the county board and some of their clubs have the money to address that if they wanted to. Other counties can afford and can apply for funding to get more GDA's if they want and put a plan in place to do so.
By the way, if Dublin can now afford to take on more of the financial burden and reduce Central council funding then of course they should do that. My view has always been that the GAA should help all counties maximise their potential but you can't do that by giving everyone the same amount. You target certain counties for particular attention and once they get to where Dublin is you move on. Most counties wouldn't need the same level of funding Dublin get to maximise their potential because they don't have to reach as big a population.
We're not talking about facilities, Cork are getting assistance for Páirc Uí Chaoimh just as Dubl$n got assistance for their home stadium Croke Park. Where will all the other counties get the money for these games development officers? How will they pay all the coaches? Does the GAA have money to cover everyone? Will ordinary citizens be happy to pay for these plans? The money isn't there, the GAA invest in Dubl$n because they get a return on the investment. It's a business move.
Your suggestion in the second paragraph is crazy. You want to improve certain counties but leave the rest behind, what are they meant to do? Just sit and watch other counties get special funding and see Gaelic Games destroyed in their county. Joke.
I'm not talking about facilities either. Cork had in the region of €10 million in the bank some of which they could have used to fund more GDA's yet they've decided to use it all on a stadium instead. That's a choice Cork have made but the money was there.
Of course investment in Dublin is about a return and so it should be, no point pissing money away on anybody. If other counties get a plan together, show why they need they money then it is there for them. But they also need to provide a return on this investment which is only right and proper.
Errr no, but by giving everyone the same you'll end up helping few if anyone. The idea is not to leave anyone behind but to build up everyone in stages. There has to be a plan when investing millions of euros otherwise their is no acceptability, no way of ensuring the money is being well spent and no way of tracking improvements. Why the hell would anyone argue that it's better to give both county A and B €100,000 each if it is quite clear county A use this money well while county B are pissing it away? Would it not make more sense to give more to the county using it well and providing a return on the investment and giving less to county B while telling them if you get your act together you'll get the money back?
Zulu,
you continually make the point about Cork deciding to put resources into a Stadium and Tyrone putting over £7m into a centre of excellence as that was their choice rather than spend it on full time coaches, but you've got to admit that there's no requirement for Dublin to make these sorts of outlays as they've got Croke Park on their door and numerous university campuses with state of the art facilities for them to train on.
There's no state of the art facilities in Tyrone, so I can see why they might do it, also a city the size of Cork needed to do something with their stadium to bring it up to scratch, but whilst the GAA may add some sort of financial assistance, they're not funding it in its entirety. This is just to keep up with Dublin on this level, but leaves them sorely lacking in other regards.
Lets not kid ourselves, Dublin by being the capital and hence a huge population have an advantage, but its only now they're making it count and fair play to them, but I think the GAA may now feel the need to reel back on the granting to Dublin but they'd still be way ahead of the rest.
As for Kilkenny only concentrating on hurling giving them an advantage, there's about 20 other counties this could be leveled at in terms of concentrating only in football!
Johnny, the point I'm making is that other counties also have money and/or in built advantages, not just Dublin, the 6 counties for example can access UK sports funding. I fully accept Dublin have advantages but Cork are building a centre of excellence even though they have UCC and CIT to avail of and I would debate the necessity of totally rebuilding PUC. I didn't engage in this type of thread until it, and about 4 other similar ones, ran for weeks on end with lads hammering the Dubs over money, a dubious home advantage (which even the poor minors now have apparently) and even match day atmosphere due to their brilliance. I've no relationship with Dublin whatsoever but I like to think I'm fair minded and I was sick of reading all the moaning about everything from the reasonable to the down right bizarre.
It should be noted that Dublin's resurgence has provided us with a wonderful football team at a time when so many others seem determined to destroy the game as a spectacle and their hurlers have added a much needed shot in the arm to the competitiveness of the championship.
Of course central council funding has to be revised but I wouldn't take any one cent from Dublin unless it can be well spent elsewhere.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 12:31:06 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 12, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
I'm not talking about facilities either. Cork had in the region of €10 million in the bank some of which they could have used to fund more GDA's yet they've decided to use it all on a stadium instead. That's a choice Cork have made but the money was there.
Of course investment in Dublin is about a return and so it should be, no point pissing money away on anybody. If other counties get a plan together, show why they need they money then it is there for them. But they also need to provide a return on this investment which is only right and proper.
Errr no, but by giving everyone the same you'll end up helping few if anyone. The idea is not to leave anyone behind but to build up everyone in stages. There has to be a plan when investing millions of euros otherwise their is no acceptability, no way of ensuring the money is being well spent and no way of tracking improvements. Why the hell would anyone argue that it's better to give both county A and B €100,000 each if it is quite clear county A use this money well while county B are pissing it away? Would it not make more sense to give more to the county using it well and providing a return on the investment and giving less to county B while telling them if you get your act together you'll get the money back?
Stadiums like Corks have to be done. It's not just GDA's that have Dubl$n where they are.
The aim should be to improve all counties equally, give everyone a fair chance to compete. A strategic programme manager and team should be appointed to every county. They formalise a plan and assess what's needed for the county they're assigned to. They go back to HQ with the report and the cost of implementing it. Obviously some counties will need more money and some less.
This way you'll have accountability, everyone will know where the money is going so it wont and can't be wasted, every county will have proper structures in place to produce talent and increase playing numbers in Gaelic Games and most of all it's FAIR for every county.
At least you're talking a bit of sense now! I'd have no problem with that. I don't care what mechanism you use to distribute funding as long as it is going to get a return and everyone with a good plan can access it.
PP are giving 11/4 on Dublin to win the 5 in a row by 2017!!! :o
Quote from: muppet on August 12, 2014, 02:43:05 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 12, 2014, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 12, 2014, 01:07:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 12, 2014, 12:48:08 PM
The brutal truth is that Dublin would beat at least 26 or 27 counties in Ireland in their own home pitch 10 times out of 10, at the moment.
This Dublin team are so good they'd beat all 32 counties combined 15 times out of 10.
.......even if Larry Reilly was playing.
Larry Reilly had 15 kids with 15 different women in the same year.
Four years later they formed an All-Ireland minor winning Cavan team.
Football AND hurling.
5 of them were subsequently found to be female.
That is known as the year of The Big Bang.
I heard Larry Reilly had 15 kids with in one year with the same woman!
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 20, 2014, 05:32:59 PM
PP are giving 11/4 on Dublin to win the 5 in a row by 2017!!! :o
I wonder is there a market for that on Betfair!
Don't matter must be at work -- :D
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=222830
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
Are Dublin really that good. Maybe its a case of the rest of the teams just being useless at the moment. I don't think they any better than the Kerry or Tyrone teams of the 00's. Man for man, Tyrone and Kerry probably had better players.
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
In fairness no county will ever have to play a final outside CP. Believe it or not the last semi final outside CP involved guess................................. Dublin.
Absolutely no finesse any more in the Dub bashing on this forum.
Quote from: Canalman on August 26, 2014, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
In fairness no county will ever have to play a final outside CP. Believe it or not the last semi final outside CP involved guess................................. Dublin.
Absolutely no finesse any more in the Dub bashing on this forum.
31 years ago.
Yes they could possibly be the best team if they could transfer in a couple Rossies, Higgins in for MDMA,Cregger in for Flynn and Shine instead of B Brogan.......job done, greatest team ever
Like all good teams you have to say they are unbeatable at home! :P
I never saw a team as good as Dublin. Not even Barca under Pep were the equal of them.
Why does the GAA need to hold Saturday 6 Sept aside in case the Dubs draw? That is an outrageous slur on the team.
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2014, 06:41:25 PM
Why does the GAA need to hold Saturday 6 Sept aside in case the Dubs draw? That is an outrageous slur on the team.
Of course Dublin would not draw, but the first game might have to be abandoned!
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
The difference is we wouldn't complain as much as you would about it. Its getting quite easy to see why you're 50 years without an AI.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 26, 2014, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
The difference is we wouldn't complain as much as you would about it. Its getti
ng quite easy to see why you're 50 years without an AI.
That's below the belt, Indiana. Keep it decent, will you
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2014, 07:08:03 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 26, 2014, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
The difference is we wouldn't complain as much as you would about it. Its getti
ng quite easy to see why you're 50 years without an AI.
That's below the belt, Indiana. Keep it decent, will you
It's not below the belt or anything like it. It's tiresome listening to a county complaining about playing in an AI Semi Final. 28 other counties out there who'd walk over broken glass to be in their position on Saturday.
If I was Horan I'd be over the moon playing on the pitch whose dimensions give Mayo a massive advantage next saturday. All their doing is taking the pressure off Donegal and Dublin and allowing Kerry to get by with their preparations with the minimum of fuss.
I've never been impressed with Horan as a manager. And this underlines why.
You have awfully high standards.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 26, 2014, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
The difference is we wouldn't complain as much as you would about it. Its getting quite easy to see why you're 50 years without an AI.
The difference is that ye wouldn t be given a reason to complain.
Easy to say ye wouldn't complain when ye know a situation is not going to happen anyway.
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 09:15:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 26, 2014, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
The difference is we wouldn't complain as much as you would about it. Its getting quite easy to see why you're 50 years without an AI.
The difference is that ye wouldn t be given a reason to complain.
Easy to say ye wouldn't complain when ye know a situation is not going to happen anyway.
We're begging for a roadtrip. Literally begging for it.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 27, 2014, 12:42:21 AM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 09:15:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 26, 2014, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
The difference is we wouldn't complain as much as you would about it. Its getting quite easy to see why you're 50 years without an AI.
The difference is that ye wouldn t be given a reason to complain.
Easy to say ye wouldn't complain when ye know a situation is not going to happen anyway.
We're begging for a roadtrip. Literally begging for it.
But you're not going to get one!
If your a Dub fan, based in Dublin you would have to attend games for 20 years to clock up time I ll do on road these 2 weekends. Not whinging mind. I don't have to do it if I don't want. But here s the thing. A friend of mine is planning to leave Dublin for Limerick, go for grub and come back and park for home and idle into the Gaelic grounds. People here are looking at 11 O clock starts. Some are talking 10. That s the logistics that we re dealing with here. Croke Park is 3 hours and 2 are hard driving but a doddle compared to what we face on Saturday? Try it if ye don't believe me. In fact try it on a normal Saturday and I guarantee you'd be tearing you're hair out before you reach Clare.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-to-resist-any-cuts-to-central-gaa-funding-1.1908845
Dublin will be resisting any reduction in their central GAA funding for next year, claiming they're being penalised for their own success while other counties are already benefitting from the lucrative gate receipts they create.
County chairman Andy Kettle has confirmed that Dublin's funding allocation for 2015 is under review, and that they're the only county with a proposed cut: they're facing a reduced allocation in coaching and games development, while Fingal will no longer be recognised for their share of national hurling league funds.
"Last Friday week, a document was released to counties, indicating what funds were going to come to any particular county, like the GAA do every year," said Kettle. "We didn't get an awful lot of time to study the document, but our county secretary (John Costello) highlighted the fact that Dublin were the only county that had a potential cut.
"First of all it would be eating into our coaching and games development. And the system we have up and running at the moment, Dublin doesn't make a huge amount. If you look at Dublin accounts for the last number of years, it's barely breaking even. It's not as if we're building a war chest. So taking any funds from it will affect our bottom line.
http://www.evilsugarradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/haters.jpg
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2014, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: Canalman on August 26, 2014, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on August 23, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2014, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
Quote from: ck on August 22, 2014, 06:19:22 AM
Crazy crazy odds for a two horse race. Whilst I hope Dublin win against Donegal I think we could be in for a shocker
There must be a wall of money on Dublin. 3/10 to win Sam.
No wonder there s so little interest about for the Mayo/Kerry semi. Seems like a pointless acedemic exercise to most I think.
Sure someone has to get hammered by them in the Final :(
That s what bothering me although after Sunday it may be Kerry people' s concern only.
Maybe to give the final opposition a chance the final will be played in Killarney or Castlebar. I m sure the Dubs won t mind. They always say they love their trips down the sticks.
we'd beat any team anywhere! We'd even beat yiz on john B keanes field full of sheep!
Easy saying that when ye know ye will never be asked to move anyway. Dublin will never have to play a semi or final outside Croker.
Croke Park being kept free in case of an unlikely replay for Donegal v Dublin. No reason (apart from financial) that Don. v Dublin replay could not be played in Clones.
In fairness no county will ever have to play a final outside CP. Believe it or not the last semi final outside CP involved guess................................. Dublin.
Absolutely no finesse any more in the Dub bashing on this forum.
31 years ago.
Ironic really with everyone going on about SFs must be played at Croke park. At the same time folk moaning about Dublin playing SFs at croke park. Dublin win semi finals cos they are played at Croke Park (except the ones we lose). In the 65th minute last year it dawned on the Kerry lads that the Dublin fellas only had a short journey to make and they fell apart. Tis a powerful place that stadium of ours.
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2014, 07:55:18 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-to-resist-any-cuts-to-central-gaa-funding-1.1908845
Dublin will be resisting any reduction in their central GAA funding for next year, claiming they're being penalised for their own success while other counties are already benefitting from the lucrative gate receipts they create.
County chairman Andy Kettle has confirmed that Dublin's funding allocation for 2015 is under review, and that they're the only county with a proposed cut: they're facing a reduced allocation in coaching and games development, while Fingal will no longer be recognised for their share of national hurling league funds.
"Last Friday week, a document was released to counties, indicating what funds were going to come to any particular county, like the GAA do every year," said Kettle. "We didn't get an awful lot of time to study the document, but our county secretary (John Costello) highlighted the fact that Dublin were the only county that had a potential cut.
"First of all it would be eating into our coaching and games development. And the system we have up and running at the moment, Dublin doesn't make a huge amount. If you look at Dublin accounts for the last number of years, it's barely breaking even. It's not as if we're building a war chest. So taking any funds from it will affect our bottom line.
http://www.evilsugarradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/haters.jpg
As usual the great Dont Matter is bang on the money. <-- Pun Here's a recent quote:
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 10:49:09 AM
the Dubs feel entitled to this money. If there's any talk of withdrawing the funds you'll here great stink coming out of them. They go on about saying the money isn't what has brought success but wait for the uproar when someone even suggests to take it away.
Look at this line from Kettle "Now it seems they can take a little bit off that, and give it to somebody else, which I don't accept." They actually think it's their money, that no one else should get any of it.
The sense of entitlement is unbelievable, he even brought up Dubl$n being treated like a Province on their own again, he feels it's outrageous that this has happened and now the GAA are "picking at the bit we have." ;D
Yes the big, bad GAA are considering cutting back the "bit" of money that Dubl$n have, the money they received from......................the GAA!!!! Plus money taken from ordinary citizens who've nothing to do with the GAA.
The monster has been created and it's a greedy monster. We must destroy it before it destroys us.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2014/0828/639933-gavin/
Dublin football manager Jim Gavin has rejected the notion that Sunday's All-Ireland football semi-final showdown with Donegal is a defining game for Gaelic football.
Gavin insisted that the All Ireland final should still be played.
Quote from: seafoid on August 29, 2014, 11:22:45 AM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2014/0828/639933-gavin/
Dublin football manager Jim Gavin has rejected the notion that Sunday's All-Ireland football semi-final showdown with Donegal is a defining game for Gaelic football.
Gavin insisted that the All Ireland final should still be played.
Fair enough article and he's right.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 27, 2014, 10:24:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2014, 07:55:18 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-to-resist-any-cuts-to-central-gaa-funding-1.1908845
Dublin will be resisting any reduction in their central GAA funding for next year, claiming they're being penalised for their own success while other counties are already benefitting from the lucrative gate receipts they create.
County chairman Andy Kettle has confirmed that Dublin's funding allocation for 2015 is under review, and that they're the only county with a proposed cut: they're facing a reduced allocation in coaching and games development, while Fingal will no longer be recognised for their share of national hurling league funds.
"Last Friday week, a document was released to counties, indicating what funds were going to come to any particular county, like the GAA do every year," said Kettle. "We didn't get an awful lot of time to study the document, but our county secretary (John Costello) highlighted the fact that Dublin were the only county that had a potential cut.
"First of all it would be eating into our coaching and games development. And the system we have up and running at the moment, Dublin doesn't make a huge amount. If you look at Dublin accounts for the last number of years, it's barely breaking even. It's not as if we're building a war chest. So taking any funds from it will affect our bottom line.
http://www.evilsugarradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/haters.jpg
As usual the great Dont Matter is bang on the money. <-- Pun Here's a recent quote:
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 12, 2014, 10:49:09 AM
the Dubs feel entitled to this money. If there's any talk of withdrawing the funds you'll here great stink coming out of them. They go on about saying the money isn't what has brought success but wait for the uproar when someone even suggests to take it away.
Look at this line from Kettle "Now it seems they can take a little bit off that, and give it to somebody else, which I don't accept." They actually think it's their money, that no one else should get any of it.
The sense of entitlement is unbelievable, he even brought up Dubl$n being treated like a Province on their own again, he feels it's outrageous that this has happened and now the GAA are "picking at the bit we have." ;D
Yes the big, bad GAA are considering cutting back the "bit" of money that Dubl$n have, the money they received from......................the GAA!!!! Plus money taken from ordinary citizens who've nothing to do with the GAA.
The monster has been created and it's a greedy monster. We must destroy it before it destroys us.
Sure what about the Laois player we are employing for you. Where are the lads going to get jobs?
Indiana, I've not read through the previous pages and I might do it now that I'm less busy but I'm just curious do you or your fellow county men think Dublin have any advantages over other counties?
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2014, 04:20:11 PM
Indiana, I've not read through the previous pages and I might do it now that I'm less busy but I'm just curious do you or your fellow county men think Dublin have any advantages over other counties?
Not really no. We're entitled to be allowed have a good team now and again. And that's the nuts and bolts of it. We aren't allowed a good team- everybody else is.
Have a read of this maybe. A bit of balance.
http://www.grassrootsgaa.ie/opinion-pieces/is-dublin-being-branded-with-the-overly-funded-brush-a-direct-result-of-its-own-recent-success
It was easy to ignore Dublin's advantages when they were squandering them. This defensive craic that it's all because they've won a few trophies is way off-base. It's just that those advantages are more relevant when Dublin aren't making a hash of them and are actually bringing them to bear at all levels.
I don't think an article on an almost entirely Dublin-focused fan-site is bringing much balance to the topic either, Indy.
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 08:06:50 PM
It was easy to ignore Dublin's advantages when they were squandering them. This defensive craic that it's all because they've won a few trophies is way off-base. It's just that those advantages are more relevant when Dublin aren't making a hash of them and are actually bringing them to bear at all levels.
I don't think an article on an almost entirely Dublin-focused fan-site is bringing much balance to the topic either, Indy.
I think it brings incredible balance. Because we don't get any balance in the media. You don't allow us to have good teams because in the country its not allowed.
As the paragraph at the end says the scaremongering is an opinion based on what might happen in the future.
Perfectly put IMO.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 29, 2014, 08:17:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 08:06:50 PM
It was easy to ignore Dublin's advantages when they were squandering them. This defensive craic that it's all because they've won a few trophies is way off-base. It's just that those advantages are more relevant when Dublin aren't making a hash of them and are actually bringing them to bear at all levels.
I don't think an article on an almost entirely Dublin-focused fan-site is bringing much balance to the topic either, Indy.
I think it brings incredible balance. Because we don't get any balance in the media. You don't allow us to have good teams because in the country its not allowed.
As the paragraph at the end says the scaremongering is an opinion based on what might happen in the future.
Perfectly put IMO.
Looking at the last few seasons it's much more about what has happened and is happening. Dublin are the main force at every non-junior county grade and their clubs have contested both of the last AI senior club finals, winning the most recent one. Whatever direction you look you'll see Dublin out in front.
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 29, 2014, 08:17:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 08:06:50 PM
It was easy to ignore Dublin's advantages when they were squandering them. This defensive craic that it's all because they've won a few trophies is way off-base. It's just that those advantages are more relevant when Dublin aren't making a hash of them and are actually bringing them to bear at all levels.
I don't think an article on an almost entirely Dublin-focused fan-site is bringing much balance to the topic either, Indy.
I think it brings incredible balance. Because we don't get any balance in the media. You don't allow us to have good teams because in the country its not allowed.
As the paragraph at the end says the scaremongering is an opinion based on what might happen in the future.
Perfectly put IMO.
Looking at the last few seasons it's much more about wha has happened and is happening. Dublin are the main force at every non-junior county grade and their clubs have contested both of the last AI senior club finals, winning the most recent one. Whatever direction you look you'll see Dublin out in front.
An opinion. That's all it is Syferus. you can't predict the future- nobody can.
What about Kilkenny circa 2000-2012?
Quote from: INDIANA on August 29, 2014, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 29, 2014, 08:17:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 08:06:50 PM
It was easy to ignore Dublin's advantages when they were squandering them. This defensive craic that it's all because they've won a few trophies is way off-base. It's just that those advantages are more relevant when Dublin aren't making a hash of them and are actually bringing them to bear at all levels.
I don't think an article on an almost entirely Dublin-focused fan-site is bringing much balance to the topic either, Indy.
I think it brings incredible balance. Because we don't get any balance in the media. You don't allow us to have good teams because in the country its not allowed.
As the paragraph at the end says the scaremongering is an opinion based on what might happen in the future.
Perfectly put IMO.
Looking at the last few seasons it's much more about wha has happened and is happening. Dublin are the main force at every non-junior county grade and their clubs have contested both of the last AI senior club finals, winning the most recent one. Whatever direction you look you'll see Dublin out in front.
An opinion. That's all it is Syferus. you can't predict the future- nobody can.
What about Kilkenny circa 2000-2012?
If they had Dublin's raw playing numbers and huge sponsorships and massive central funding the same would have been said about them. Dublin are without equal in a lot of meaningful ways and the direction of funding is making the gap larger. That's in no one's interests in the long run, even Dublin's.
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 09:11:11 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 29, 2014, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 29, 2014, 08:17:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 29, 2014, 08:06:50 PM
It was easy to ignore Dublin's advantages when they were squandering them. This defensive craic that it's all because they've won a few trophies is way off-base. It's just that those advantages are more relevant when Dublin aren't making a hash of them and are actually bringing them to bear at all levels.
I don't think an article on an almost entirely Dublin-focused fan-site is bringing much balance to the topic either, Indy.
I think it brings incredible balance. Because we don't get any balance in the media. You don't allow us to have good teams because in the country its not allowed.
As the paragraph at the end says the scaremongering is an opinion based on what might happen in the future.
Perfectly put IMO.
Looking at the last few seasons it's much more about wha has happened and is happening. Dublin are the main force at every non-junior county grade and their clubs have contested both of the last AI senior club finals, winning the most recent one. Whatever direction you look you'll see Dublin out in front.
An opinion. That's all it is Syferus. you can't predict the future- nobody can.
What about Kilkenny circa 2000-2012?
If they had Dublin's raw playing numbers and huge sponsorships and massive central funding the same would have been said about them. Dublin are without equal in a lot of meaningful ways and the direction of funding is making the gap larger. That's in no one's interests in the long run, even Dublin's.
Again an opinion that highlights the double standards involved.
You've got nothing for me bar an opinion because you can't talk about titles that haven't been win.
You can only talk about what you think might happen.
Plenty of them lads down in leopardstown during the week chasing the dragon.
So McEntee says we're being hysterical about Dublin. They haven't been tested he says. When McEntee talks ye listen.
Quote from: ONeill on August 30, 2014, 08:59:50 AM
So McEntee says we're being hysterical about Dublin. They haven't been tested he says. When McEntee talks ye listen.
2 AIs in three years. People seem to forget they already have a lock of them in the bag at this stage.
Quote from: Syferus on August 30, 2014, 09:54:39 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 30, 2014, 08:59:50 AM
So McEntee says we're being hysterical about Dublin. They haven't been tested he says. When McEntee talks ye listen.
2 AIs in three years. People seem to forget they already have a lock of them in the bag at this stage.
Sure even our boys did that
When?
Yes against credible opposition too. At the moment they are on a par with the great meath of 96/99. Unfortunately they are mentally strong. Dubs always had a wee white flag in them. Now the chests are out and they believe totally. How good a footballer ye have can be rendered irrelevant if your heads are weak. If they win this in many peoples eyes they will be the team of the decade which puts them level with Tyrone noughties/Meath 90s / Kerry / 80s etc.
Ah the usual excuses and whataboutery all over the last page, this time including a whole article full of it. ;D What did we have? Other teams have built a centre of excellence for themselves, Kilkenny dominate hurling, why not split them? When Kerry dominated why weren't they split? The answer to these questions is simple.
None of these counties received millions upon millions of euro from GAA and public funds for almost a decade. The amount of All Irelands Dubl$n win is irrelevant. They have won 26 titles since 2009 however, which proves what money can buy. If the money has nothing to do with Dubl$ns success then why have they kicked up such a fuss about a suggestion to cut it?
The Dubs are very touchy about the whole funding subject, you're seeing more and more articles trying to defend it and their county board getting rattled. Why is this? Well it's very simple, it's either continue to deflect and make a load of excuses or they'll have to accept the reality. The reality is that they wouldn't have success without the tons of money flowing into their structures for a decade.
In fairness it is very difficult to face that sort of truth. It'll mean having to admit every title they've won for the last few years was done unfairly. That all the titles they've amassed were hollow victories, titles they've been bought not won. They'll have to come to terms with it though, the facts can't be denied.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 30, 2014, 11:15:12 AM
Ah the usual excuses and whataboutery all over the last page, this time including a whole article full of it. ;D What did we have? Other teams have built a centre of excellence for themselves, Kilkenny dominate hurling, why not split them? When Kerry dominated why weren't they split? The answer to these questions is simple.
None of these counties received millions upon millions of euro from GAA and public funds for almost a decade. The amount of All Irelands Dubl$n win is irrelevant. They have won 26 titles since 2009 however, which proves what money can buy. If the money has nothing to do with Dubl$ns success then why have they kicked up such a fuss about a suggestion to cut it?
The Dubs are very touchy about the whole funding subject, you're seeing more and more articles trying to defend it and their county board getting rattled. Why is this? Well it's very simple, it's either continue to deflect and make a load of excuses or they'll have to accept the reality. The reality is that they wouldn't have success without the tons of money flowing into their structures for a decade.
In fairness it is very difficult to face that sort of truth. It'll mean having to admit every title they've won for the last few years was done unfairly. That all the titles they've amassed were hollow victories, titles they've been bought not won. They'll have to come to terms with it though, the facts can't be denied.
Is there an ignore button on here??
Quote from: northsideboy on August 30, 2014, 04:14:58 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 30, 2014, 11:15:12 AM
Ah the usual excuses and whataboutery all over the last page, this time including a whole article full of it. ;D What did we have? Other teams have built a centre of excellence for themselves, Kilkenny dominate hurling, why not split them? When Kerry dominated why weren't they split? The answer to these questions is simple.
None of these counties received millions upon millions of euro from GAA and public funds for almost a decade. The amount of All Irelands Dubl$n win is irrelevant. They have won 26 titles since 2009 however, which proves what money can buy. If the money has nothing to do with Dubl$ns success then why have they kicked up such a fuss about a suggestion to cut it?
The Dubs are very touchy about the whole funding subject, you're seeing more and more articles trying to defend it and their county board getting rattled. Why is this? Well it's very simple, it's either continue to deflect and make a load of excuses or they'll have to accept the reality. The reality is that they wouldn't have success without the tons of money flowing into their structures for a decade.
In fairness it is very difficult to face that sort of truth. It'll mean having to admit every title they've won for the last few years was done unfairly. That all the titles they've amassed were hollow victories, titles they've been bought not won. They'll have to come to terms with it though, the facts can't be denied.
Is there an ignore button on here??
One wishes. the guy is a well known muppet- don't feed the troll. if
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
if a little repetitive. Copy and pasting heaven.
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Followed by another muppet. It will be a good a laugh at the domination experts theory if we get beaten tomorrow.
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:02:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Followed by another muppet.
Takes one to know one as they say.
keep on running kid
You can sponsor me with some of your dole money below.. ;D
Well since you can barely run 5km according to the running thread. I dont think you're worth my dole money.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:19:36 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:02:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Followed by another muppet.
Takes one to know one as they say.
keep on running kid
You can sponsor me with some of your dole money below.. ;D
Well since you can barely run 5km according to the running thread. I dont think you're worth my dole money.
A guy living in the arse end of Neilstown Indiana. You'd be bitter too if it were your lot.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:19:36 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:02:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Followed by another muppet.
Takes one to know one as they say.
keep on running kid
You can sponsor me with some of your dole money below.. ;D
Well since you can barely run 5km according to the running thread. I dont think you're worth my dole money.
8 weeks from a Marathon and I can't run 5k...OK ;D
Quote from: heffo on August 30, 2014, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:19:36 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:02:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Followed by another muppet.
Takes one to know one as they say.
keep on running kid
You can sponsor me with some of your dole money below.. ;D
Well since you can barely run 5km according to the running thread. I dont think you're worth my dole money.
A guy living in the arse end of Neilstown Indiana. You'd be bitter too if it were your lot.
Ah here's the other idiot.. Obsessing over where I do or don't live. I've never been in Neilstown but I'm sure its fine and there are ordinary decent folk live there.
I'm moving out to Ballinteer at the end of November, you're welcome to the house warming.
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:27:37 PM
Quote from: heffo on August 30, 2014, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:19:36 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:02:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Followed by another muppet.
Takes one to know one as they say.
keep on running kid
You can sponsor me with some of your dole money below.. ;D
Well since you can barely run 5km according to the running thread. I dont think you're worth my dole money.
A guy living in the arse end of Neilstown Indiana. You'd be bitter too if it were your lot.
Ah here's the other Muppet. Obsessing over where I do or don't live.
I'm moving out to Ballinteer at the end of November, you're welcome to the house warming.
Ah good lad- just watch Footloose before the marathon and you'll be grand
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:27:37 PM
Quote from: heffo on August 30, 2014, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:19:36 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:02:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Followed by another muppet.
Takes one to know one as they say.
keep on running kid
You can sponsor me with some of your dole money below.. ;D
Well since you can barely run 5km according to the running thread. I dont think you're worth my dole money.
A guy living in the arse end of Neilstown Indiana. You'd be bitter too if it were your lot.
Ah here's the other Muppet. Obsessing over where I do or don't live.
I'm moving out to Ballinteer at the end of November, you're welcome to the house warming.
Ah good lad- just watch Footloose before the marathon and you'll be grand
Don't forget to sponsor me.
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:30:50 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:27:37 PM
Quote from: heffo on August 30, 2014, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:19:36 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 09:02:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 30, 2014, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: laoislad on August 30, 2014, 08:45:23 PM
Keep it up Dont Matter...great stuff.
Followed by another muppet.
Takes one to know one as they say.
keep on running kid
You can sponsor me with some of your dole money below.. ;D
Well since you can barely run 5km according to the running thread. I dont think you're worth my dole money.
A guy living in the arse end of Neilstown Indiana. You'd be bitter too if it were your lot.
Ah here's the other Muppet. Obsessing over where I do or don't live.
I'm moving out to Ballinteer at the end of November, you're welcome to the house warming.
Ah good lad- just watch Footloose before the marathon and you'll be grand
Don't forget to sponsor me.
I will no worries. (seriously)
Fair play (seriously)
Is there an ignore button on here??
[/quote]
One wishes. the guy is a well known muppet- don't feed the troll. if
[/quote]
At the top of page, click Profile.
Then click modify profile
you'll see a drop down menu with buddies/ignore list at the bottom.
Would work great if people would only stop quoting Don't Matter.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on August 30, 2014, 09:49:56 PM
Is there an ignore button on here??
One wishes. the guy is a well known muppet- don't feed the troll. if
[/quote]
At the top of page, click Profile.
Then click modify profile
you'll see a drop down menu with buddies/ignore list at the bottom.
Would work great if people would only stop quoting Don't Matter.
[/quote]
Don't Matter has made some good points, all we get in response from Dublin contributors is not refutation of his points, but this
(http://www.myfellowamerican.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/See-No-evil-Hear-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil-Lessonsontheenglishlongsword.blogspot.com_.jpg)
Quote from: armaghniac on August 30, 2014, 10:06:51 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on August 30, 2014, 09:49:56 PM
Is there an ignore button on here??
One wishes. the guy is a well known muppet- don't feed the troll. if
At the top of page, click Profile.
Then click modify profile
you'll see a drop down menu with buddies/ignore list at the bottom.
Would work great if people would only stop quoting Don't Matter.
[/quote]
Don't Matter has made some good points, all we get in response from Dublin contributors is not refutation of his points, but this
(http://www.myfellowamerican.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/See-No-evil-Hear-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil-Lessonsontheenglishlongsword.blogspot.com_.jpg)
[/quote]
He's been refuted many times over.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 30, 2014, 10:06:51 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on August 30, 2014, 09:49:56 PM
Is there an ignore button on here??
One wishes. the guy is a well known muppet- don't feed the troll. if
At the top of page, click Profile.
Then click modify profile
you'll see a drop down menu with buddies/ignore list at the bottom.
Would work great if people would only stop quoting Don't Matter.
[/quote]
Don't Matter has made some good points, all we get in response from Dublin contributors is not refutation of his points, but this
(http://www.myfellowamerican.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/See-No-evil-Hear-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil-Lessonsontheenglishlongsword.blogspot.com_.jpg)
[/quote]
Oh goodie. You put up the picture of the three lads who got buried in the Armagh Trophy Cabinet when getting a guided tour. Because it's opened so little people just forgot about them.
Perhaps if Armagh had ten times the population and ten times the money the trophy cabinet would exceed Dublin'$.
1. It may seem like I'm repeating myself over and over again but that's because the same excuses and deflection has been repeated over and over again by the Dubs.
2. I provide figures, stats and some wonderful looking tables to back up my case that Dubl$n have been bought success, the Dubs only reply is to say no they haven't, deflect and then do similar to what we see in Armaghniacs picture.
3. You can ignore me all you want here and you can ignore everyone else saying similar things to me elsewhere but the issue wont go away. More and more people are becoming aware of the extent of the financial doping the Dubs have partaken in over the last decade. The game is up!
4. I wouldn't take any money off any of them Laoislad, you wouldn't know where it was taken from or what was sniffed with it.
(http://rs341.pbsrc.com/albums/o393/jimmy84cardiff/troll-web.jpg~c200)
And straight away:
(http://www.myfellowamerican.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/See-No-evil-Hear-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil-Lessonsontheenglishlongsword.blogspot.com_.jpg)
I expect dubs to win well today and they can be a great team if they win 3. However I think their canter is a lot to do with oppositions not at the level. I think 3 of the 4 semifinalists from 05 would beat this current dub team.
Quote from: rrhf on August 31, 2014, 10:35:17 AM
I expect dubs to win well today and they can be a great team if they win 3. However I think their canter is a lot to do with oppositions not at the level. I think 3 of the 4 semifinalists from 05 would beat this current dub team.
And pray tell which team would not beat them from 05???
This thread should be renamed "Are Dublin The Biggest Chokers Of All Time?"
Dublin's arse fell out again, as soon as someone puts them under pressure. They are no better than they were in 2008.
Jim McGuinness said hi ;D
The ole Kerry lads can safety say we can cancel this thread for the next 10/15yrs
Quote from: stew on August 31, 2014, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: rrhf on August 31, 2014, 10:35:17 AM
I expect dubs to win well today and they can be a great team if they win 3. However I think their canter is a lot to do with oppositions not at the level. I think 3 of the 4 semifinalists from 05 would beat this current dub team.
And pray tell which team would not beat them from 05???
Cork. Armagh kerry and Tyrone in 05 were at a level as impressive as any who played the game.
It would appear not :)
Its quick to note that this thread was started by non-dubs!!
I'd suggest the answer to the question is "NO".
Quote from: Rossfan on August 31, 2014, 07:33:13 PM
I'd suggest the answer to the question is "NO".
It's hard not to agree with this after today.
Ye can stick your split dublin in 2 up your holes ;D
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on August 31, 2014, 07:45:55 PM
Ye can stick your split dublin in 2 up your holes ;D
What he said!
(http://www.riekelt.com/barbrady.png)
With the exception of Alan Brogan, this is still a pretty young team. Whether or not they're the "best team ever" there's another one or two AI's in them I'd say.
At the very least this defeat should make the fools who suggested that Dublin be split up into North/South cop on to themselves.
You know it won't though.
Of course there a few all-irelands in this team , they are fairly young, but need O`Sullivan at No.6 and a midfielder along with big MD. A more sure free taker needs looked at again, Dean Rock not a freetaker, They must know to drop back and cover there fullback line and the defence play more defensive. Ina way Dublin were undone the day alot like they were against Donegal 22yrs ago, That day their greatest strength, their attacking half back line got found out and Dublin reverted to a more defensive unit the next 4yrs or so.
Quote from: rrhf on August 31, 2014, 05:23:01 PM
Cork. Armagh kerry and Tyrone in 05 were at a level as impressive as any who played the game.
Very much agree with the part in bold.
Dubs lost that game in second gear.
Quote from: Ard-Rí on September 01, 2014, 01:58:41 AM
Dubs lost that game in second gear.
Only because they weren't allowed to get out of second gear.
Quote from: Ard-Rí on September 01, 2014, 01:58:41 AM
Dubs lost that game in second gear.
didn't want to peak too early
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on August 31, 2014, 07:45:55 PM
Ye can stick your split dublin in 2 up your holes ;D
They were split in 2 yday!
Well obviously they're not the best team ever, just the team with the biggest level of financial backing the GAA has or ever will see. In an amateur sport where most teams are struggling for resources that level of funding will get you quite far. The Dubs will probably go begging for more money now, start increasing their noise levels about being treated as a province on there own. The monster still lives.
Quote from: hardstation on September 01, 2014, 10:13:07 AM
Two things.
Their defence is poor.
They shite the bucket when put under pressure.
They were kicking long range points for fun in the first half. Concede two goals and their balls dropped off.
Worst team ever.
you Antrim men have little shame ;)
Quote from: hardstation on September 01, 2014, 12:10:51 PM
Means we're only second worst. We'll take that.
Houl on, didn't Derry get put out by Longford? Yikes!!
Ran Donegal closer than Dublin. The Anglo Celt is pretty much in the bag next year
Quote from: hardstation on September 01, 2014, 12:16:44 PM
Yeah and we were level with them at half time.
yer level with Carlow
we have a winner. thats me out
I'd say Antrim are the biggest joke of a county and that's saying something. Just you worry about your little social clubs and cheap pints.
Leinster fuball is very weak at the moment which also helps Dublin look great. They should be thrown to the dogs in Ulster for the craic to see how well they'd do chasing the Anglo Celt.
Quote from: Shrewdness on August 09, 2014, 10:07:36 PM
Too early to call them the best ever, but it will take a collapse of seismic proportions to stop Dublin from winning this year's All Ireland... Imo, neither Donegal, Kerry or Mayo have the forwards or the depth of quality on the bench to outscore the Dubs, unless there is an improbable collapse from the Dubs.
Maybe we all bought into the bandwagon.
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2014, 02:00:26 PM
Leinster fuball is very weak at the moment which also helps Dublin look great. They should be thrown to the dogs in Ulster for the craic to see how well they'd do chasing the Anglo Celt.
Donegal when on form are probably the only team which can challenge a Dublin team playing at the levels they have been this year. Dublin would destroy any other Ulster team, and would likely have beaten Kerry or Mayo comfortably based on Saturday's match. They'd have beaten them, anyway.
The failure of Jim Gavin to operate a defensive plan on Sunday was obviously the main criticism levelled at him. But the air of invincibility that that Dublin had this year was a product of that same all-out attacking philosophy and willingness to commit defenders to attack. That will bamboozle almost any other team and I don't think Kerry or Mayo would have coped. But Dublin under Gavin had never come up against what Donegal do. No other team can do what Donegal do and deny space to the same extent. You must deny space to Dublin because they'l hammer you otherwise. Sunday showed that supreme defence with great counter-attacking will always likely beat supreme attack. It was a sort of Italy-Brazil 1982 of Gaelic football.
However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.
Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.
Quote from: hardstation on September 01, 2014, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on September 01, 2014, 01:57:28 PM
I'd say Antrim are the biggest joke of a county and that's saying something. Just you worry about your little social clubs and cheap pints.
Nah, Derry are.
We're really not!!!
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 12:03:29 PM
However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.
Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.
It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.
It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if they had addressed these issues.
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on September 02, 2014, 12:28:08 PM
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 12:03:29 PM
However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.
Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.
It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.
It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if they had addressed these issues.
Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 01:21:24 PM
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on September 02, 2014, 12:28:08 PM
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 12:03:29 PM
However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.
Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.
It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.
It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if they had addressed these issues.
Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.
Tyrone in 2004 were dealing with the death of their captain and were probably caught on the hop against Mayo considering the result of the earlier match that day. In 2006 and 2007 Tyrone were decimated with injuries to key players, Ill never forget how deplted they were against Derry in the first round in 2006.
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 02, 2014, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 01:21:24 PM
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on September 02, 2014, 12:28:08 PM
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 12:03:29 PM
However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.
Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.
It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.
It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if they had addressed these issues.
Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.
Tyrone in 2004 were dealing with the death of their captain and were probably caught on the hop against Mayo considering the result of the earlier match that day. In 2006 and 2007 Tyrone were decimated with injuries to key players, Ill never forget how deplted they were against Derry in the first round in 2006.
I'll never forget that day either :D
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 01:21:24 PM
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on September 02, 2014, 12:28:08 PM
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 12:03:29 PM
However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.
Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.
It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.
It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if they had addressed these issues.
Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.
Surely Dublin are subject to the same "hunger" limits as the other big teams. This second season thing is always likely to be an issue. It takes an awful lot of mental energy and focus to win an all Ireland.
BTW how can you say that Throne were better than this Donegal team? Is it not a bit early to declare ?
Where is that eejit Fuzzman now?
Crowing about Dublin 10 pages back.
Quote from: seafoid on September 02, 2014, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 01:21:24 PM
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on September 02, 2014, 12:28:08 PM
Quote from: Sidney on September 02, 2014, 12:03:29 PM
However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.
Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.
It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.
It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if they had addressed these issues.
Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.
Surely Dublin are subject to the same "hunger" limits as the other big teams. This second season thing is always likely to be an issue. It takes an awful lot of mental energy and focus to win an all Ireland.
BTW how can you say that Throne were better than this Donegal team? Is it not a bit early to declare ?
All players are likely subject to hunger limits to an extent. Hunger was a problem for Dublin in 2012 - they were below par right from the start of the year - but I don't think it was a problem this year as the players would likely have taken winning last year's All-Ireland much more in their stride than 2011. Certainly 2013 wasn't as big a deal to the Dublin public as 2011. Dublin's massive panel and the competition for places is obviously another factor that should allow them to compete year after year. Donegal don't have that and it would take an even better coaching performance from McGuinness to get them back competing at the same level next year. Also winning an All-Ireland is simply a bigger deal for a county like Donegal or Tyrone than it is for a county like Kerry or Dublin. The celebrations are longer, more intense and take more out of the players for the next year.
I think it's unarguable that Tyrone were a much more talented team of pure footbalers, man for man, than Donegal - they had nine or ten players who were certainly as good as anything Kerry had and maybe better, (you can't say that about Donegal) although I think Kerry had a deeper pool of talent. But, similar to Donegal, the way they played involved a specific game plan that demanded a huge level of intensity. Injures or not, they weren't able to keep that same intensity year after year - only in 2008 and 2009 were they even able to reach successive semi-finals. Injuries can only account for so much of that - the team they started against Meath in 2007 for instance, was not weaker on paper than their 2008 team but turned in a far inferior performance. I do also take the point that the Ulster championship is in general, more intense than the Leinster or Munster championships which Dublin and Kerry have to come through. A consistently tough route to the later stages of the championship mitigates against consistent, year on year success because it's both mentally and physically draining, but can have benefits in individual years where a team has had a break and is refreshed and hungry, like Tyrone in 2005 and 2008 and Donegal this year.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but there are other reasons why back to back titles are difficult.
I believe it would easier for Kerry or Dublin to do it though.
Ease of Draw
Dublin and Kerry currently have (this applies to Mayo as well) an easier route to the quarter finals, one tough game at most.
in 2014 all 3 had an easy ride to last 8.
2015 should not be much more difficult for them either. Cork will hope to be better, new manager in Mayo could alter things but if they perform as this year all should be in the last 8 next year.
Donegal will be favourites in Ulster next year, but an improving Armagh, and others such as Monaghan/Tyrone and Derry if they improve could cause a shock.
Retirement of players/managers
This will effect how you might do the next year. I'm sure many didn't expect Kerry to win in 1987.
Time will only tell who will call it a day after this year. Of the last 4 Mayo have already lost their manager, could Jim also call it a day?
I would guess Dublin will have the least players retiring of the 4.
If Mayo ever won it in the next few years, I'm sure few would bet on them doing the double, as there would be some celebrating done out west.
I can only see Alan Dillon retiring from Mayo. Maybe Richie Feeney but he started so late I doubt he won't give it a go with the new manager.
Back to back titles aren't beyond this Dublin team.
Most players are aged between 24-27, a few years left on the clock before judgement on their greatness!
Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 07, 2014, 09:21:41 AM
Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.
We were talking about the whole way the game is going at the minute and the amount of money being spent on 'specialist' coaches etc to get the extra 'edge'. We were talking about it at a club level but it also relates to county but the whole notion of 'greatness' is not created by what is done at the age of 18, 19, 20 or upwards but what is done at 8, 9 and 10. The Kerrys, and Kilkennys of the game do not focus on the system or the cult of the manager or the super duper fitness coach. They have an innate belief in each and every one of the players that pulls on the jersey. As 8 and 9 year olds these now senior players are bred to believe that they are the greatest footballers or hurlers in the country, whether they are or not. The pure belief, that extra 10% that teams are paying sports psychologists a small fortune for is very hard to instill into someone who has never truly had that belief. I see it at our club at all levels and it is the intangible 'x factor' that you cannot buy. At county level I would classify Kerry in football, KK, Cork and Tipp in the hurling as teams that have this. I would not put Dublin in that category as a county. They have the old Jack swagger and all that but deep down there is always a nagging doubt about them, can they live with the hype? Can they cope with the pressure? Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers, built out of training grids and spreadsheets, they are pure footballers. They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A. That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.
QuoteMany of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers, built out of training grids and spreadsheets, they are pure footballers. They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A. That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.
I wouldn't agree with that and I can't think of anything that backs that assertion up. Diarmuid Connelly is as natural a footballer as you could hope to see.
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 10:09:05 AM
QuoteMany of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers, built out of training grids and spreadsheets, they are pure footballers. They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A. That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.
I wouldn't agree with that and I can't think of anything that backs that assertion up. Diarmuid Connelly is as natural a footballer as you could hope to see.
I said many not all. Connolly is a very natural footballer as is Brogan, MD McAuley is a mullocker who has worked himself into a 'footballer' through hard work and fitness training. He is effective but I would classify him as a 'manufactured' footballer. Ciaran Kilkenny to my mind was a huge loss this year as he is a serious good footballer and I reckon if he had been fit he would have been key to unpick the Donegal defence, but he wasn't so...
But BC1 there are always mullockers on every team, most midfielders are traditionally big boned mullockers. Cluxton, McCaffery, McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Flynn, Connnolly, Brogans X 2, Andrews, Mannion, Cooper etc. are all excellent footballers and many of them have strong claims to be in the top 5 footballers in Ireland.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 07, 2014, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 07, 2014, 09:21:41 AM
Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.
We were talking about the whole way the game is going at the minute and the amount of money being spent on 'specialist' coaches etc to get the extra 'edge'. We were talking about it at a club level but it also relates to county but the whole notion of 'greatness' is not created by what is done at the age of 18, 19, 20 or upwards but what is done at 8, 9 and 10. The Kerrys, and Kilkennys of the game do not focus on the system or the cult of the manager or the super duper fitness coach. They have an innate belief in each and every one of the players that pulls on the jersey. As 8 and 9 year olds these now senior players are bred to believe that they are the greatest footballers or hurlers in the country, whether they are or not. The pure belief, that extra 10% that teams are paying sports psychologists a small fortune for is very hard to instill into someone who has never truly had that belief. I see it at our club at all levels and it is the intangible 'x factor' that you cannot buy. At county level I would classify Kerry in football, KK, Cork and Tipp in the hurling as teams that have this. I would not put Dublin in that category as a county. They have the old Jack swagger and all that but deep down there is always a nagging doubt about them, can they live with the hype? Can they cope with the pressure? Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers, built out of training grids and spreadsheets, they are pure footballers. They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A. That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.
Kerry couldn't deal with Donegal either (or Tyrone in the 2000s) and I'd hardly call them automaton footballers unable to think on their feet.
The simple fact is there really isn't any way you can deal with a 13 man defence. You can only beat it by a combination of sheer bloody mindedness and luck. With 17 scores (and it should have been a lot more) against it Dublin did a hell of a lot better than anybody else has managed against an on-form Donegal defence.
When a game plan succeeds a team and their coach are praised for sticking with what they believed in. When it fails the're pilloried for not changing it. If Dublin had put away even one of those goal chances and got an eight point lead Donegal would likely not have come back and we'd have been hearing all week about how McGuinness had failed to move with the times in terms of tactics. That would have been complete rubbish, and of course it's also rubbish to say Dublin footballers are automatons produced by spreadsheets, it's completely laughable.
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 10:18:27 AM
But BC1 there are always mullockers on every team, most midfielders are traditionally big boned mullockers. Cluxton, McCaffery, McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Flynn, Connnolly, Brogans X 2, Andrews, Mannion, Cooper etc. are all excellent footballers and many of them have strong claims to be in the top 5 footballers in Ireland.
You see McCaffrey and Flynn would be to me the epitome of what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they are not good at what they do but they are very reflective of the modern day footballer. Pace, power and fitness. Flynn has a lovely strike of the ball but he is very much a worker bee. Connolly as I said above is very talented, in fact I would go as far as to say he is the most 'talented' player in the country. His temperament seems to have adjusted slightly. The brogans are footballers as is Andrews and McCarthy. Mannion has a nice left foot but is a bit of a one trick pony from what I've seen of him. The reality is that other people have seen more of these players than me. They all are excellent individual players. I don't though see in them the game awareness that sets them apart. When the flow is going the right way they are very good. When it isn't they can be found out.
I don't know BC1, I think you're applying a standard to Dublin that if applied to any other county would come up with the same result but only with more manufactured footballers. I think Flynn is a magnificent footballer and athlete, like Brian Dooher was for example. I really don't know if you can say they can't think their way through games as they've won so many, including close ones or games where they've been well behind, that you can't pick out last Sunday and hold it up as an example of anything. Dublin should have come off the field with 1-20 at least which is phenomenal against Donegal. It's all opinions I suppose but I reckon Dublin have more natural footballers than anyone else at the moment.
Quote from: Sidney on September 07, 2014, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 07, 2014, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 07, 2014, 09:21:41 AM
Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.
We were talking about the whole way the game is going at the minute and the amount of money being spent on 'specialist' coaches etc to get the extra 'edge'. We were talking about it at a club level but it also relates to county but the whole notion of 'greatness' is not created by what is done at the age of 18, 19, 20 or upwards but what is done at 8, 9 and 10. The Kerrys, and Kilkennys of the game do not focus on the system or the cult of the manager or the super duper fitness coach. They have an innate belief in each and every one of the players that pulls on the jersey. As 8 and 9 year olds these now senior players are bred to believe that they are the greatest footballers or hurlers in the country, whether they are or not. The pure belief, that extra 10% that teams are paying sports psychologists a small fortune for is very hard to instill into someone who has never truly had that belief. I see it at our club at all levels and it is the intangible 'x factor' that you cannot buy. At county level I would classify Kerry in football, KK, Cork and Tipp in the hurling as teams that have this. I would not put Dublin in that category as a county. They have the old Jack swagger and all that but deep down there is always a nagging doubt about them, can they live with the hype? Can they cope with the pressure? Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers, built out of training grids and spreadsheets, they are pure footballers. They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A. That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.
Kerry couldn't deal with Donegal either (or Tyrone in the 2000s) and I'd hardly call them automaton footballers unable to think on their feet.
The simple fact is there really isn't any way you can deal with a 13 man defence. You can only beat it by a combination of sheer bloody mindedness and luck. With 17 scores (and it should have been a lot more) against it Dublin did a hell of a lot better than anybody else has managed against an on-form Donegal defence.
When a game plan succeeds a team and their coach are praised for sticking with what they believed in. When it fails the're pilloried for not changing it. If Dublin had put away even one of those goal chances and got an eight point lead Donegal would likely not have come back and we'd have been hearing all week about how McGuinness had failed to move with the times in terms of tactics. That would have been complete rubbish, and of course it's also rubbish to say Dublin footballers are automatons produced by spreadsheets, it's completely laughable.
Thats conplete rubbish Sidney. We were uncompletely unprepared for last week. Donegal have been beaten more then a few times in the last few years. But you need a plan and you need to be able to change things. We did neither last week
I wouldn't entirely agree Indiana, though I accept Dublin didn't adapt when the game was in the melting pot. In saying that Dublin were very effective in the first half and might have felt they could push on in the second half, conceding the goals which weren't unpreventable even with the man on man defensive structure Dublin used were a killer. From my seat in the Davin stand the number of Donegal men in defence meant a Dublin goal was all but impossible in the second half.
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 03:13:46 PM
I wouldn't entirely agree Indiana, though I accept Dublin didn't adapt when the game was in the melting pot. In saying that Dublin were very effective in the first half and might have felt they could push on in the second half, conceding the goals which weren't unpreventable even with the man on man defensive structure Dublin used were a killer. From my seat in the Davin stand the number of Donegal men in defence meant a Dublin goal was all but impossible in the second half.
Have you ever been involved in a game whereby your half forwards kicked you to victory over 60-70mins by scoring points they'd score once a year?
We had no plan to get our inside forwards into the game and hence why we lost.
There is no plan to get it into the full forward line. That's the whole point of the Donegal system, they take that away from you, to beat them that's the first thing you have to accept.
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 10:45:27 AM
I don't know BC1, I think you're applying a standard to Dublin that if applied to any other county would come up with the same result but only with more manufactured footballers. I think Flynn is a magnificent footballer and athlete, like Brian Dooher was for example. I really don't know if you can say they can't think their way through games as they've won so many, including close ones or games where they've been well behind, that you can't pick out last Sunday and hold it up as an example of anything. Dublin should have come off the field with 1-20 at least which is phenomenal against Donegal. It's all opinions I suppose but I reckon Dublin have more natural footballers than anyone else at the moment.
They didn't though, what's your point?
That their basic tactical set up was fine.
But they didn't score 1:20 and conceded 3 goals, Armagh give Donegal a better game and they are in lowly divison 3.
The reason they didn't score 1-20 or more had nothing to do with their tactics which is the point. Yes, they conceded 3 goals but Dublin give you a chance to score by the way they play and they are happy with that. So how are their tactics at fault? What is your point btw?
My point is why are you still crying 19 pages later, and what's this about what they should have scored, the scoreline shows you what they did score, which wasn't near enough!
Right so you don't understand what we are talking about. We are discussing tactics, not the merits of who won, of course every team has to score more than their opponents to win a game but you can lose a game and still have employed effective tactics. Hope that clears it up for you.
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 04:47:58 PM
That their basic tactical set up was fine.
Can't agree with that Zulu. When the attack started for Donegal's third goal Dublin had one defender inside their own 50'. When McFadden got the ball Donegal had 4 attackers against 3 Dublin defenders. Let nobody tell me that is sound tactics.
Quote from: Zip Code on September 07, 2014, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 10:45:27 AM
I don't know BC1, I think you're applying a standard to Dublin that if applied to any other county would come up with the same result but only with more manufactured footballers. I think Flynn is a magnificent footballer and athlete, like Brian Dooher was for example. I really don't know if you can say they can't think their way through games as they've won so many, including close ones or games where they've been well behind, that you can't pick out last Sunday and hold it up as an example of anything. Dublin should have come off the field with 1-20 at least which is phenomenal against Donegal. It's all opinions I suppose but I reckon Dublin have more natural footballers than anyone else at the moment.
Why should Dublin have scored 1-20?
They were put under pressure, crumbled & started missing chances they were scoring in their sleep all year.
All this talk about "natural footballers" is beside the point if you haven't the steel to hack it when the going gets tough.
Quote from: BluestackBoy on September 07, 2014, 05:31:30 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 04:47:58 PM
That their basic tactical set up was fine.
Can't agree with that Zulu. When the attack started for Donegal's third goal Dublin had one defender inside their own 50'. When McFadden got the ball Donegal had 4 attackers against 3 Dublin defenders. Let nobody tell me that is sound tactics.
But there isn't a tactical set up that covers everything all the time. I'm not arguing Dublin were perfect or that they were right to continue as they did but if they's taken one of their goal chances and a few of their easy chances in the second half then the game could have turned out differently and nobody would be talking about Dublin's tactics.
Is this not the whole nuture v nature arguement, to me what BC1 is saying is actually the nurture arguement and that Kerry/Kilkenny just have a better culture of nurturing footballers.
Perhaps, but McCaffery, Brogan(s) and McCarthy are the sons of county footballers and have come through a quality coaching system. Without both I don't think they'd be the footballers that are and surely all counties have, or aspire to have, the same system?
It's the 10000 hours of practice arguement though, they were sons of footballers so all they wanted to do is kick football, so they practiced and practiced and if their parents were of a high level or coaches technique gets corrected early and qualities such as work-rate and commitment are instilled from a young age.
But isn't that what happens in Kerry too?
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 05:39:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on September 07, 2014, 05:31:30 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 04:47:58 PM
That their basic tactical set up was fine.
Can't agree with that Zulu. When the attack started for Donegal's third goal Dublin had one defender inside their own 50'. When McFadden got the ball Donegal had 4 attackers against 3 Dublin defenders. Let nobody tell me that is sound tactics.
But there isn't a tactical set up that covers everything all the time. I'm not arguing Dublin were perfect or that they were right to continue as they did but if they's taken one of their goal chances and a few of their easy chances in the second half then the game could have turned out differently and nobody would be talking about Dublin's tactics.
Its a system that nobody else uses and hence why it has no longevity. Armagh's full forward line didn't go too badly against Donegal because they had a plan.
Dublin plan's was to kick long range scores - Donegal moved the cordon out and we never countered it. Or plan to get our inside line into the game was to make hare brained runs down the middle into contact or transfer the ball by hand 3 yards to a static forward who invariably had 4 players around him.
The reason we couldn't change it was because we were unprepared for it. Dublin management team have rightly gotten fulsome play for the last 18 months however last Sunday was a poor day at the office for them.
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 05:58:16 PM
But isn't that what happens in Kerry too?
Of course it's nurture that's my belief, no such thing as a natural footballer/hurler, they are nurtured from a very young age.
A andecdote a heard recently was Mickey O'Connell use to practice for hours upon hours, who was the ball boy that use to work with him, Jack O'Shea, in turn when Jack practiced his ball boy was Maurice Fitzgerald and in turn when Maurice practiced his ball boy was Declan O'Sullivan.
The question becomes who was Declan O'Sullivan's ball boy?
Quote from: INDIANA on September 07, 2014, 03:04:18 PM
Quote from: Sidney on September 07, 2014, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 07, 2014, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 07, 2014, 09:21:41 AM
Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.
We were talking about the whole way the game is going at the minute and the amount of money being spent on 'specialist' coaches etc to get the extra 'edge'. We were talking about it at a club level but it also relates to county but the whole notion of 'greatness' is not created by what is done at the age of 18, 19, 20 or upwards but what is done at 8, 9 and 10. The Kerrys, and Kilkennys of the game do not focus on the system or the cult of the manager or the super duper fitness coach. They have an innate belief in each and every one of the players that pulls on the jersey. As 8 and 9 year olds these now senior players are bred to believe that they are the greatest footballers or hurlers in the country, whether they are or not. The pure belief, that extra 10% that teams are paying sports psychologists a small fortune for is very hard to instill into someone who has never truly had that belief. I see it at our club at all levels and it is the intangible 'x factor' that you cannot buy. At county level I would classify Kerry in football, KK, Cork and Tipp in the hurling as teams that have this. I would not put Dublin in that category as a county. They have the old Jack swagger and all that but deep down there is always a nagging doubt about them, can they live with the hype? Can they cope with the pressure? Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers, built out of training grids and spreadsheets, they are pure footballers. They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A. That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.
Kerry couldn't deal with Donegal either (or Tyrone in the 2000s) and I'd hardly call them automaton footballers unable to think on their feet.
The simple fact is there really isn't any way you can deal with a 13 man defence. You can only beat it by a combination of sheer bloody mindedness and luck. With 17 scores (and it should have been a lot more) against it Dublin did a hell of a lot better than anybody else has managed against an on-form Donegal defence.
When a game plan succeeds a team and their coach are praised for sticking with what they believed in. When it fails the're pilloried for not changing it. If Dublin had put away even one of those goal chances and got an eight point lead Donegal would likely not have come back and we'd have been hearing all week about how McGuinness had failed to move with the times in terms of tactics. That would have been complete rubbish, and of course it's also rubbish to say Dublin footballers are automatons produced by spreadsheets, it's completely laughable.
Thats conplete rubbish Sidney. We were uncompletely unprepared for last week. Donegal have been beaten more then a few times in the last few years. But you need a plan and you need to be able to change things. We did neither last week
I didn't say Dublin weren't tactically naive, just that the notion they have automaton footballers produced by spreadsheets is utterly laughable.
Quote from: Syferus on September 07, 2014, 06:30:53 PM
The question becomes who was Declan O'Sullivan's ball boy?
the sun god
For want of a better place.
Hope Cooper lad is ok. :o
http://balls.ie/gaa/dublin-gaa-star-injured-city-centre-stabbing-incident/
Quote from: StephenC on September 20, 2014, 02:21:49 PM
For want of a better place.
Hope Cooper lad is ok. :o
http://balls.ie/gaa/dublin-gaa-star-injured-city-centre-stabbing-incident/
That is shocking news. I hope he has a speedy recovery.
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2014, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: StephenC on September 20, 2014, 02:21:49 PM
For want of a better place.
Hope Cooper lad is ok. :o
http://balls.ie/gaa/dublin-gaa-star-injured-city-centre-stabbing-incident/
That is shocking news. I hope he has a speedy recovery.
+1
Yea best of luck to him, hope he recovers fully.
I always think that the scumbags walking around carrying knives should be done for intent as well as for any attack they carry out. i.e if a victim dies - it is murder. If not - it is attempted murder.
Quote from: muppet on September 20, 2014, 07:10:10 PM
Yea best of luck to him, hope he recovers fully.
I always think that the scumbags walking around carrying knives should be done for intent as well as for any attack they carry out. i.e if a victim dies - it is murder. If not - it is attempted murder.
Discharged earlier. He's fine thankfully.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 20, 2014, 08:01:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 20, 2014, 07:10:10 PM
Yea best of luck to him, hope he recovers fully.
I always think that the scumbags walking around carrying knives should be done for intent as well as for any attack they carry out. i.e if a victim dies - it is murder. If not - it is attempted murder.
Discharged earlier. He's fine thankfully.
Good to hear.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 07, 2014, 06:12:50 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 05:58:16 PM
But isn't that what happens in Kerry too?
Of course it's nurture that's my belief, no such thing as a natural footballer/hurler, they are nurtured from a very young age.
A andecdote a heard recently was Mickey O'Connell use to practice for hours upon hours, who was the ball boy that use to work with him, Jack O'Shea, in turn when Jack practiced his ball boy was Maurice Fitzgerald and in turn when Maurice practiced his ball boy was Declan O'Sullivan.
Nearly but not quite. It was Bryan Sheehan. Sheehan is the same club as Maurice and jacko.
On today's evidence the answer to this question is again yes. Already looking forward to Dublin defending their #1 status next year.
Wishing cooper a speedy recovery.
Sad to read about this stuff, he is a class player and I look forward to seeing him back next year.
Lock thine perpetrator up and lose the key
Quote from: sligoman2 on September 22, 2014, 01:58:47 AM
Wishing cooper a speedy recovery.
Sad to read about this stuff, he is a class player and I look forward to seeing him back next year.
Lock thine perpetrator up and lose the key
I heard yesterday he was stabbed 9 times!
He should get a year or two for each time if that us true.
Unfortunatley that sort of thing is a regular occurance in Dubl$n. You live there at your own risk. Hopefully Cooper recovers quickly.
Slashed across the face and neck apparently. It was a mugging, and he refused to hand over his wallet. Brutal stuff. Best of luck to him, I hope he recovers quickly and doesn't have scars or anything.
Quote from: Dont Matter on September 22, 2014, 03:08:45 PM
Unfortunatley that sort of thing is a regular occurance in Dubl$n. You live there at your own risk. Hopefully Cooper recovers quickly.
Interesting take-bias here in yr first two sentences .... also interesting yr byline quote.....
Fingal local history project-
Kieran Duff interviewed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DovMz7WFOqI
Barney Rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-sYry0q0fs
I was listening to the Duff video above and I remember back in 83 the ould fella and his friends all saying the Dubs were dirty.
I think that image stayed with them, unfairly, for a long time.
Ah they were rough enough now.
Just watching the pre match build up and discussion again, I'm wondering why isn't more being made of Pat Spillane's comment that "Dublin are a one trick pony"?
Dublin may have been a bit naive in the semi final, but Martin McHugh and Joe Brolly were both crucified for making far less ridiculous comments than Spillane.
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 23, 2014, 07:48:02 PM
Just watching the pre match build up and discussion again, I'm wondering why isn't more being made of Pat Spillane's comment that "Dublin are a one trick pony"?
Dublin may have been a bit naive in the semi final, but Martin McHugh and Joe Brolly were both crucified for making far less ridiculous comments than Spillane.
Spillane is a hateful spiteful man. He has only one agenda. The promotion of Kerry football. He will stand on any team who make progress and discredit them. Sunday was a w**kfest for him (he was like a child in a sweet shop after the minor game). In fairness if the Dubs carried on like Kerry did in triumph on Sunday, they would be crucified by the media. But hey, stereotypes carry. The silence on certain issues from the media on Kerry this season has been deafening.
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 23, 2014, 07:48:02 PM
Just watching the pre match build up and discussion again, I'm wondering why isn't more being made of Pat Spillane's comment that "Dublin are a one trick pony"?
Dublin may have been a bit naive in the semi final, but Martin McHugh and Joe Brolly were both crucified for making far less ridiculous comments than Spillane.
Spillane is useless as a pundit- if you were going to pull him up on ridiculous things he says you'd be here all day. Not even worth listening to.
Brolly and mchugh should have more sense -unless they're trying to be sensationalist. Spillane doesn't. Zero credibility and not worth listening to.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 23, 2014, 09:04:08 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 23, 2014, 07:48:02 PM
Just watching the pre match build up and discussion again, I'm wondering why isn't more being made of Pat Spillane's comment that "Dublin are a one trick pony"?
Dublin may have been a bit naive in the semi final, but Martin McHugh and Joe Brolly were both crucified for making far less ridiculous comments than Spillane.
Spillane is useless as a pundit- if you were going to pull him up on ridiculous things he says you'd be here all day. Not even worth listening to.
Brolly and mchugh should have more sense -unless they're trying to be sensationalist. Spillane doesn't. Zero credibility and not worth listening to.
Spillane is stupid. Neither of the other 2 are.
I do not understand how he is still there.
Quote from: seafoid on September 23, 2014, 09:21:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 23, 2014, 09:04:08 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 23, 2014, 07:48:02 PM
Just watching the pre match build up and discussion again, I'm wondering why isn't more being made of Pat Spillane's comment that "Dublin are a one trick pony"?
Dublin may have been a bit naive in the semi final, but Martin McHugh and Joe Brolly were both crucified for making far less ridiculous comments than Spillane.
Spillane is useless as a pundit- if you were going to pull him up on ridiculous things he says you'd be here all day. Not even worth listening to.
Brolly and mchugh should have more sense -unless they're trying to be sensationalist. Spillane doesn't. Zero credibility and not worth listening to.
Spillane is stupid. Neither of the other 2 are.
Spillane is far from stupid imo. But he has a strange personality in the sense he doesn t seem to care if he makes a tit of himself to further the Kerry cause. His ego is such that he has no shame and his reputation as an all-time-great means he gets a free pass as well. Bunker nailed that in an earlier post.
He has an agenda and he goes about it in his own way. In general fair play to the Kerry mafia in the press the last few weeks. They really played a blinder.
He's playing a character and that character has done very well for him.
Quote from: seafoid on September 23, 2014, 04:16:24 PM
I was listening to the Duff video above and I remember back in 83 the ould fella and his friends all saying the Dubs were dirty.
I think that image stayed with them, unfairly, for a long time.
Every team is "dirty" when you are a fancy dan.
Powder puff footballers.
Quote from: seafoid on September 23, 2014, 09:21:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 23, 2014, 09:04:08 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 23, 2014, 07:48:02 PM
Just watching the pre match build up and discussion again, I'm wondering why isn't more being made of Pat Spillane's comment that "Dublin are a one trick pony"?
Dublin may have been a bit naive in the semi final, but Martin McHugh and Joe Brolly were both crucified for making far less ridiculous comments than Spillane.
Spillane is useless as a pundit- if you were going to pull him up on ridiculous things he says you'd be here all day. Not even worth listening to.
Brolly and mchugh should have more sense -unless they're trying to be sensationalist. Spillane doesn't. Zero credibility and not worth listening to.
Spillane is stupid. Neither of the other 2 are.
Mulholland allowed himself to be bullied like a little boy by Brolly. Pat wouldn't stand for that shite.
Powder puff pundits.
A Basketball coach now??!!??!!
Quotehttp://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-boss-jim-gavin-drafts-in-renowned-basketball-coach-to-help-beat-blanket-defences-31110249.html
Dublin boss Jim Gavin drafts in renowned basketball coach to help beat blanket defences
Dublin manager Jim Gavin has drafted in basketball coach Mark Ingle in an attempt to break down blanket defences.
Dublin were defeated in last year's All-Ireland semi-final by Donegal last year after their failure to deal with the Ulster champion's packed rearguard.
There were boos among the crowd on Saturday evening at Croke Park as the Dubs suffered similar difficulties in their turgid 0-8 to 0-4 victory over a dogged Derry side and drew with Tyrone earlier in the league campaign in similar circumstances.
Last weekend's struggle left many questioning whether the boys in blue can deal with a negative approach from their opponents and according to a report in today's Irish Sun, the Dubs have recruited one of Ireland's most well-known coaches to help them with the issue.
Dublin players are believed to have engaged in basketball games to better understand how offensive and defensive gameplans work through the use of screening and zonal defence.
The drills also included movements and strategies to get the ball to a team's most dangerous player and making attacking players race back and engage in a defensive approach.
Ingle has worked with the extremely successful DCU Mercy outfit in recent years and is one of the most recognisable faces in Irish basketball circles.
Speaking after last week's game with Derry, Jim Gavin said: "It's just a challenge for us.
"Whatever way a team plays against us, whether it's man-to-man or that blanket defence, it's a case of trying to work our way through it. And that would be the most satisfying team."
Dublin face Monaghan in Clones this weekend needing a positive result to make the National League semi-finals.
I've just checked the date on that report ;)
Ffs. Had a quick look and the f**kers are in here too.
Roscommon have overtaken the Dubs as the best team ever, based on GAAboard stats to midnight last night.
They also make fresh toast in the morning and walk the dog and can park the car without human intervention, even in narrow confines.
That bus - best thing they ever did.
The once proud Royal Meath have sunk to new lows these days and instead of discussion that all ye can talk about is our mighty bus.
Very disappointed in ye buckeens. :-[
It is not just the Meath lads. We are all in thrall to the Roscommon bus.
Roll on you mighty sheepwheelers.