Munster SHC starts on Sunday at 4pm with Waterford v Cork in Thurles. Waterford have 4 players making their debut so it is an inexperienced team. It's hard to see us beating Cork who were seconds away from winning All Ireland last year but we travel in hope and hopefully we can give a good performance at least.
I don't have any hope, but we'll go anyway.
Quote from: waterfordlad on May 22, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
Munster SHC starts on Sunday at 4pm with Waterford v Cork in Thurles. Waterford have 4 players making their debut so it is an inexperienced team. It's hard to see us beating Cork who were seconds away from winning All Ireland last year but we travel in hope and hopefully we can give a good performance at least.
Cork were lucky to get to the final last year, really.
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2014, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: waterfordlad on May 22, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
Munster SHC starts on Sunday at 4pm with Waterford v Cork in Thurles. Waterford have 4 players making their debut so it is an inexperienced team. It's hard to see us beating Cork who were seconds away from winning All Ireland last year but we travel in hope and hopefully we can give a good performance at least.
Cork were lucky to get to the final last year, really.
Yes but they took every chance they could and ran with it, fair fcuks to them too, JBM has always got the best out of this team when it really matters. I expect it to be tight with 7/8 mins to go and a 21 yard free to Cork, well you know the rest.....
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2014, 06:41:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2014, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: waterfordlad on May 22, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
Munster SHC starts on Sunday at 4pm with Waterford v Cork in Thurles. Waterford have 4 players making their debut so it is an inexperienced team. It's hard to see us beating Cork who were seconds away from winning All Ireland last year but we travel in hope and hopefully we can give a good performance at least.
Cork were lucky to get to the final last year, really.
Yes but they took every chance they could and ran with it, fair fcuks to them too, JBM has always got the best out of this team when it really matters. I expect it to be tight with 7/8 mins to go and a 21 yard free to Cork, well you know the rest.....
With the injuries and suspensions in Waterford, you get the impression they'd be happy for a good performance, not get blown off the park and to regroup for a run at the qualifiers.
Hard to see Cork not winning with 5 or 6 to spare although they may need to tighten up defensively as it was their achilles heal last year.
Aidan Walsh making his hurling championship debut, he was unreal in an U-21 hurling game I watched a few years back, but this is senior..
Quote from: johnneycool on May 23, 2014, 12:39:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2014, 06:41:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2014, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: waterfordlad on May 22, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
Munster SHC starts on Sunday at 4pm with Waterford v Cork in Thurles. Waterford have 4 players making their debut so it is an inexperienced team. It's hard to see us beating Cork who were seconds away from winning All Ireland last year but we travel in hope and hopefully we can give a good performance at least.
Cork were lucky to get to the final last year, really.
Yes but they took every chance they could and ran with it, fair fcuks to them too, JBM has always got the best out of this team when it really matters. I expect it to be tight with 7/8 mins to go and a 21 yard free to Cork, well you know the rest.....
With the injuries and suspensions in Waterford, you get the impression they'd be happy for a good performance, not get blown off the park and to regroup for a run at the qualifiers.
Hard to see Cork not winning with 5 or 6 to spare although they may need to tighten up defensively as it was their achilles heal last year.
Aidan Walsh making his hurling championship debut, he was unreal in an U-21 hurling game I watched a few years back, but this is senior..
That was the Limerick - Cork Munster Final in Limerick a few years ago I'd say. He was brilliant that night, absolutely stellar, but Cork still lost after extra time I think. That was a game for the ages.
I had Clare in my head, but you could be right.
It was Limerick in the Gaelic Grounds in 2011. I remember toward the end of normal time Walsh caught a puckout in the middle of the field, turned and hit the equaliser, that was an unbelievable point. He didn't really stand out during the league and he might be better off in the forwards than midfield but sure we'll see on Sunday. Harnedy at 14 is a genius move imo. He is the ball winner they need in the fill forward line but I have a suspicion Conor Lehane could end up playing there with Harnedy wing forward. In fairness Cork's defense is looking better this year. Mark Ellis is a serious talent and Cahalane and Eoin Cadogan returning add more depth to the backline. The most exciting thing about Cork on Sunday, though is Alan Cadogan who looks a serious talent and really caught the eye during the league (in fairness that was division 1b) and I'm looking forwardbto seeing him against better opposition.
I don't really know much about Waterford but from what I've been reading I expect Cork to come through with a few points to spare.
I can't see Waterford getting with 8 points of Cork.
I don't think Cork are great though the footballers might push them a bit but I'd expect them to win this comfortably.
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2014, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: waterfordlad on May 22, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
Munster SHC starts on Sunday at 4pm with Waterford v Cork in Thurles. Waterford have 4 players making their debut so it is an inexperienced team. It's hard to see us beating Cork who were seconds away from winning All Ireland last year but we travel in hope and hopefully we can give a good performance at least.
Cork were lucky to get to the final last year, really.
Maybe true, but they were also unlucky not to win the All Ireland.
Will this year's Hurling Championship be the greatest ever or will it just be fantastic and excellent :D
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2014, 10:50:53 PM
Will this year's Hurling Championship be the greatest ever or will it just be fantastic and excellent :D
As long as it's better than the Rossies showing in football championship ;D ;D
who is tired of Marty going on about the dechie already?
Quote from: maigheo on May 25, 2014, 04:05:00 PM
who is tired of Marty going on about the dechie already?
Very promising and impressive from Waterford. Only some over ambitious shooting left the door open for Cork, who as we saw last year can bang in a few quick goals. Gleeson looks a phenomenal talent.
Poor enough game and Cork being exposed here.
Deiseach must be enjoying this after the liverpool
Experience.
Quote from: seafoid on May 25, 2014, 05:26:39 PM
Deiseach must be enjoying this after the liverpool
Experience.
Nah, bit like Liverpool they have come up short, will Cork be as lethargic again?
Cork are a bit like Down in 2010 who overachieved. I was surprised by Waterford's performance but not by Cork's. Neither team are up to much.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2014, 06:22:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 25, 2014, 05:26:39 PM
Deiseach must be enjoying this after the liverpool
Experience.
Nah, bit like Liverpool they have come up short, will Cork be as lethargic again?
Stirring on here too!
Promising display from Waterford today. Still the same inability to close out a game but maybe these young lads will overcome that.
I thought it was an alright game looking forward to to the replay.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2014, 07:41:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2014, 06:22:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 25, 2014, 05:26:39 PM
Deiseach must be enjoying this after the liverpool
Experience.
Nah, bit like Liverpool they have come up short, will Cork be as lethargic again?
Stirring on here too!
I'm in one of those moods ffs!! Off tomorrow you'd think I'd be in good form!!
That was some game. What a goal by young Gleeson.
Munster council will be delighted. I was shouting for the underdog but I can't see Cork being as average the next day out.
Why is the replay on the 8th of June? I know Limerick and Tipp are in Thurles next Sunday, but if it had to be Thurles, why not on Saturday evening, like Tyrone and Down? The winners will have a week to get ready for Clare, so instead of playing the same opponent (whom you've prepared for) twice in a week, now you play two different opponents in a week.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 08:59:21 AM
Why is the replay on the 8th of June? I know Limerick and Tipp are in Thurles next Sunday, but if it had to be Thurles, why not on Saturday evening, like Tyrone and Down? The winners will have a week to get ready for Clare, so instead of playing the same opponent (whom you've prepared for) twice in a week, now you play two different opponents in a week.
Thought that was strange myself unless they've already decided that Thurles pitch couldn't take two/three matches in less than 24 hours!
As for the game, it was a good, exciting contest without being an overly high standard, but I think we're seeing the widespread use of the packed defense and short passing game by all and sundry and I think it will ruin the game as a spectacle to an extent.
Yesterday Waterford had for the big part of it only two men within forty yards of the Cork goal, Cork at the other end something similar, which does create space for these forwards, but they've some ground to cover to get within a roar of getting a goal, Gleesons goal proves this point as somehow the Cork defense allowed him to waltz in from 45 metres out (their achilles heal against Clare last year) and but it away in style in all fairness. Cadogan up the other end was tormenting his markers without realistically getting a sniff of a goal, which came after a goal mouth scramble, which like a few other scores the Waterford defence should have cleared.
Waterford will be happy, but disappointed in the same breath as they'd a poor Cork on the ropes and should have finished them off, maybe they'll have gained a bit more confidence from the performance, but you've got to think Cork can't be as bad the next day out. Who will have learned and improved the most?
A few things of note, both Brick Walsh and Kevin Moran in the act of retaining possession throw/drop the ball onto the ground and scoop it back into their hands, a fine line IMO, but they got away with it yesterday, any referees clarify on this?
I thought Cadogan threw himself to the ground for a free near the end of the first half and big Gavin bought it, are we likely to see more of this during the summer or will the Kilkenny manliness prevail?
Marty Morrissey and his fixation with fuckin 'dual stars', yeah Marty we know Aidan Walsh and Cahalane play football, great, but we don't need told it every farts end.
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2014, 07:14:06 PM
Cork are a bit like Down in 2010 who overachieved. I was surprised by Waterford's performance but not by Cork's. Neither team are up to much.
Agree with you totally about Cork. Still scratching my head as to how close they came last year to actually winning the AI.
Waterford imo are a team that needs a complete oil change with alot of youngsters thrown in and then will win the AI in the next 5 years or so, if not sooner.
Quote from: thejuice on May 25, 2014, 07:43:48 PM
Promising display from Waterford today. Still the same inability to close out a game but maybe these young lads will overcome that.
I thought it was an alright game looking forward to to the replay.
I can't find any recent instance of Waterford being well ahead at some point in a Championship game only to fail to win. Maybe you mean the Minor hurlers in last year's drawn Munster final, and while they lost that battle they won the war.
Yesterday was a thrilling surprise. It had similarities to Liverpool - missed out on the ultimate prize but the gap between where I expected them to be and where they ended up was huge! I can't see Cork being that bad again. In the first half, they were horrendous. But there are signs of life after a dismal end to the League.
Quote from: johnneycool on May 26, 2014, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 08:59:21 AM
A few things of note, both Brick Walsh and Kevin Moran in the act of retaining possession throw/drop the ball onto the ground and scoop it back into their hands, a fine line IMO, but they got away with it yesterday, any referees clarify on this?
I have seen this more and more, if they throw the ball as if to put it on the stick then miss, is that clumsy or deliberate? It's a fine line, if they consistently do it in a game I'll blow for throw ball and let him know what I think he's doing. This is being taught or they are copying this from games on TV.
Henry Shefflin did this a couple of times. Throw the ball ahead then sprint and pick it up again and it passes as a solo effort that was recovered. In his case I think it was deliberate and he was penalised once.
Quote from: orangeman on May 25, 2014, 09:46:19 PM
That was some game. What a goal by young Gleeson.
Munster council will be delighted. I was shouting for the underdog but I can't see Cork being as average the next day out.
It was a cracking goal.
I am not that convinced about Cork.
Love the Munster championship - any one of 5 could win it.
A picture tells a thousand words:
(http://f2.thejournal.ie/media/2014/05/gleesongoal.gif)
If you'd like a couple of thousand words about the game, click here (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2014/05/26/waterford-1-21-24-cork-1-21-24/).
Quote from: deiseach on May 26, 2014, 09:15:47 PM
A picture tells a thousand words:
(http://f2.thejournal.ie/media/2014/05/gleesongoal.gif)
If you'd like a couple of thousand words about the game, click here (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2014/05/26/waterford-1-21-24-cork-1-21-24/).
Brilliant goal but I cant see how no Crok player took him down.
They couldn't get close enough to take him down! Brilliant goal.
Before the game I would have been happy with a good performance and keeping within maybe 6 points of Cork but after being 9 points up it was bad we didn't close out the win after never being behind in the game.
We'll have a few players back for replay though and have shown we have nothing to be afraid of. Cork were awful in the first half but in fairness rallied well in last 20 minutes or so.
Good article deiseach and I was wondering too about whether there might be a fitness issue with the Waterford team. It was a serious fade-out and they were hanging on for the last 20.
Surely the 2 week break will help Waterford as they had a number of players missing with injury.
O'Sullivan, Shanahan & Molumphy are all good players and if they can get some of these 3 back in, they would be a major addition.
On the other side it will be interesting to see if Paudie O'Sullivan can make it back. The Cork starting half-forward line only scored a single point in the entire game which is a truly miserable return so there are surely places up for grabs in their forward unit.
Quote from: Asal Mor on May 27, 2014, 09:33:38 AM
Good article deiseach and I was wondering too about whether there might be a fitness issue with the Waterford team. It was a serious fade-out and they were hanging on for the last 20.
You reckon this may have been down to a lack of collective training in the last few weeks?
Quote from: deiseach on May 26, 2014, 09:15:47 PM
A picture tells a thousand words:
(http://f2.thejournal.ie/media/2014/05/gleesongoal.gif)
If you'd like a couple of thousand words about the game, click here (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2014/05/26/waterford-1-21-24-cork-1-21-24/).
Reminded me of Ryan Giggs going past the Arsenal defence in the FA Cup ;)
Was a cracking score and the best you'll see this year I'd imagine
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 10:38:06 AM
You reckon this may have been down to a lack of collective training in the last few weeks?
I haven't a clue what's going on behind the scenes there Johnney to be honest, but they did look tired in the second half and the workrate dropped. I hadn't heard about their lack of training session until I read deiseach's article.
Quote from: Asal Mor on May 27, 2014, 11:10:28 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 10:38:06 AM
You reckon this may have been down to a lack of collective training in the last few weeks?
I haven't a clue what's going on behind the scenes there Johnney to be honest, but they did look tired in the second half and the workrate dropped. I hadn't heard about their lack of training session until I read deiseach's article.
When you come out of the blocks like Waterford did there will always be a chance of fatigue setting in, and with them being understrength (not that it noticed in the first half) then the problem of do I put on 4/5 subs that will help keep the momentum or would it have brought the standard down? Hard to work out what's the best thing to do as a manager
Quote from: Asal Mor on May 27, 2014, 11:10:28 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 10:38:06 AM
You reckon this may have been down to a lack of collective training in the last few weeks?
I haven't a clue what's going on behind the scenes there Johnney to be honest, but they did look tired in the second half and the workrate dropped. I hadn't heard about their lack of training session until I read deiseach's article.
It was in the press about a month ago that McGrath was letting them go back to their clubs and collective training was either stopped or greatly reduced, but you'd have thought the players with playing and training with their clubs and doing their extra programs on their own wouldn't have been too far away.
I got the impression at the time that McGraths hand was forced by Waterford CB, in a cost cutting measure more than anything else. although they had a warm weather training week away which I think the panel raised the funds for themselves.
With a young team, it'll take time until they adjust to the physicality of it as it'll take its toll too, probably why the likes of Gleeson was out on his feet. It'll take a while for the match fitness to get there.
It was ironic that someone, can't remember who, tweeted that 'Is this a great endorsement of more club games and less training?' about 3 minutes before it started to turn sour on Waterford.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 27, 2014, 12:07:53 PM
It was ironic that someone, can't remember who, tweeted that 'Is this a great endorsement of more club games and less training?' about 3 minutes before it started to turn sour on Waterford.
Ha, I remember saying something similar after Antrim managed to beat Wexford in the U-21 semi-final last year when Kevin Ryan was bemused as to how Antrim had managed such a win when their collective training was next to non-existent with half a dozen turning up one night.
I do think there is a balance to be struck, and smaller counties in particular can't neglect their clubs by wrapping the county teams up in cotton wool as the standard of club hurling drops considerably.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2014, 10:40:36 AM
Reminded me of Ryan Giggs going past the Arsenal defence in the FA Cup ;)
Don't recall Giggs shipping a shoulder like Gleeson did . . .
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 12:06:39 PM
I got the impression at the time that McGraths hand was forced by Waterford CB, in a cost cutting measure more than anything else. although they had a warm weather training week away which I think the panel raised the funds for themselves.
I don't think there's any doubt that the lack of training sessions was a cost-cutting measure. My concern would be that Waterford fell apart in a similar manner in the corresponding fixture against Clare last year. If that's the pattern and not just a coincidence, something is seriously wrong.
Quote from: deiseach on May 27, 2014, 02:09:00 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 12:06:39 PM
I got the impression at the time that McGraths hand was forced by Waterford CB, in a cost cutting measure more than anything else. although they had a warm weather training week away which I think the panel raised the funds for themselves.
I don't think there's any doubt that the lack of training sessions was a cost-cutting measure. My concern would be that Waterford fell apart in a similar manner in the corresponding fixture against Clare last year. If that's the pattern and not just a coincidence, something is seriously wrong.
Do you need a shrink or motivational coach in the backroom staff as well?
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 02:57:08 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 27, 2014, 02:09:00 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 12:06:39 PM
I got the impression at the time that McGraths hand was forced by Waterford CB, in a cost cutting measure more than anything else. although they had a warm weather training week away which I think the panel raised the funds for themselves.
I don't think there's any doubt that the lack of training sessions was a cost-cutting measure. My concern would be that Waterford fell apart in a similar manner in the corresponding fixture against Clare last year. If that's the pattern and not just a coincidence, something is seriously wrong.
Do you need a shrink or motivational coach in the backroom staff as well?
Is there one willing to do it for free?
Quote from: deiseach on May 27, 2014, 03:20:29 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 02:57:08 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 27, 2014, 02:09:00 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 12:06:39 PM
I got the impression at the time that McGraths hand was forced by Waterford CB, in a cost cutting measure more than anything else. although they had a warm weather training week away which I think the panel raised the funds for themselves.
I don't think there's any doubt that the lack of training sessions was a cost-cutting measure. My concern would be that Waterford fell apart in a similar manner in the corresponding fixture against Clare last year. If that's the pattern and not just a coincidence, something is seriously wrong.
Do you need a shrink or motivational coach in the backroom staff as well?
Is there one willing to do it for free?
Would Mullane not give a rousing team talk at the start and again at half time for free?
;D
He loves his kwownty.
Quote from: johnneycool on May 27, 2014, 12:18:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 27, 2014, 12:07:53 PM
It was ironic that someone, can't remember who, tweeted that 'Is this a great endorsement of more club games and less training?' about 3 minutes before it started to turn sour on Waterford.
Ha, I remember saying something similar after Antrim managed to beat Wexford in the U-21 semi-final last year when Kevin Ryan was bemused as to how Antrim had managed such a win when their collective training was next to non-existent with half a dozen turning up one night.
I do think there is a balance to be struck, and smaller counties in particular can't neglect their clubs by wrapping the county teams up in cotton wool as the standard of club hurling drops considerably.
Bloody hell, not only did the Antrim U-21's have very little collective training they were also scoffing a big bag of pick'n'mix on their way to the game. Throw all this diet and nutrition shit out the window as well!!
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=217207 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=217207)
Quote from: hardstation on May 28, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
What will he be like when he hears about the barrack busters and pastie baps?
You might have to explain to the lads further south what the barrack buster is, although I did read somewhere that a pint of beer after a game was every bit as good as those lucozade sports type drinks for replacing lost salts and whatever, cider on the other hand!!
I remember heading home to training one night and the lad driving pulled into a chipper on the way out of Newtownards for an 'energy' burger as he called it.. ;D
Tipperary v Limerick on Sunday. Tipp will be favourites after coming good towards end of league while Limerick didn't get promoted and lost Donal O'Grady afterwards. Conventional wisdom would be Tipp should win with home advantage but Limerick are Munster champions and beat Tipp last year so I reckon this will be close game with Tipp to edge it by a couple of points.
Limerick should also have beaten Tipperary in Thurles 2 years ago as well, so Limerick are in no way underdogs for this game in my eyes, despite what the bookies say.
Tipperary seem to be going well though, there is a very positive air about them this year, which is noticeably different from the vibe around the place last year. I think Brendan Maher at centre back has been a revelation, but I suspect the Tipp team that starts on Sunday won't be the Tipp team that ends the year.
The tipp defence have been leaky and Limerick can score goals. If they tighten up then Id say tipp will win.
Quote from: didlyi on May 30, 2014, 09:49:41 AM
The tipp defence have been leaky and Limerick can score goals. If they tighten up then Id say tipp will win.
I think they stemmed that leakiness with Brendan Maher in the centre back berth and Paudie Maher in full back and by filtering their midfield deeper down the field.
Bonner Maher at No.11 is their engine as their forwards lack that bit of industry and doggedness he brings to them. If Limerick can nullify his threat then the rest of the forwards can be meak enough, but given the right ball, Noel McGrath and the likes can put up big scores. Make them battle for it and there's still serious questions to be answered.
Don't know a whole pile about the 2014 version of Limerick, but with O'Grady missing from the line they may miss that bit of guile to eak out a win if they get close. There'll be plenty of blood and snotters from them, but that mightn'd be enough.
Tipp by 5
I wouldn't be surprised if Padraig Maher isn't #3 by the end of the year.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 30, 2014, 12:14:55 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Padraig Maher isn't #3 by the end of the year.
He has an achilles heel of the big awkward catcher as proved by Aoiske O'Hailpan and Cussen which proved to be his downfall the last time he manned the square, Downes of Limerick might get a bit of leeway in there if the ball is pucked down on him close to the goals, Maher wants to catch everything himself, but allowing a forward to catch so close to the goals is a criminal offence for a full back, otherwise he's quick enough to sweep up anything that drops in and around that area.
Paul Curran is back from injury I believe, so they've a ready made replacement if things start going wrong.
Yeah Curran is back and moving fairly well, but he's not hurled really since last October. A couple of club and challenge match halves here and there. I wouldn't be surprised if Conor O'Mahoney finds himself in there at some stage. I don't think he has the range for wing back.
Fair play to the Limerick lads, they'd their homework done on Tipp and ultimately just wanted it more when it came to the crunch.
Tipp at times did look impressive and worked the ball well and could have had a few more goals if it wasn't for last gasp blocks, flicks and hooks by the Limerick defence, Richie McCarthy in particular providing the stumbling block on more than one occasion.
Limerick did pump a few high ball on top of Downes (and later Dowling) and Paudie Maher, with Downes just shading it, but the Limerick forwards were quicker onto the breaking ball and made it count with the 21 yard free where the first goal came from and another harshly ruled out for Dowling playing the hurl I presume, although Kellys actions when awarding the free it is slightly unclear.
Either shooting from distance or dropping in high ball and battling for it in there negated the Tipp sweeper, with Brendan Maher quiet for large parts of the game, didn't make sense for Tipp to stay with that tactic IMO.
Bonner Maher did his utmost to win the game single handed for Tipp, his supporting cast let Tipp down when Limerick pushed for home in the dying minutes, drawing level then popping over the two insurance points, one from corner back Seamus Hickey who ran almost 40 yards unopposed to seal the victory.
Loughnane and Mulcahy on the sunday game last night were right to criticise the Tipp forwards for letting their opponents burst past them all too easy and put quality ball into their forwards, rather than force them backwards where the clearances would have to be on the back foot and higher in the air making it more likely to be a 50/50 contest. The Limerick forwards weren't as gracious and generous and worked like dogs to harry, jostle, hook, block and force the Tipp defenders to risk another pass and possibly lose possession.
Eamon O'Shea looks to be an unlucky manager as with all the faults in their play they could and should have won the game even if they didn't deserve to, maybe like last year the promising finish to the league is still masking the lack of championship hurlers on this Tipp team.
An unkind draw in the qualifiers and Tipp could be out by early July again.
Limerick will fancy their chances to go again, but this year a Munster championship won't be enough, they'll be wanting and needing to be in Croke park in September to whet the appetite this year.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 02, 2014, 09:35:54 AM
Fair play to the Limerick lads, they'd their homework done on Tipp and ultimately just wanted it more when it came to the crunch.
Tipp at times did look impressive and worked the ball well and could have had a few more goals if it wasn't for last gasp blocks, flicks and hooks by the Limerick defence, Richie McCarthy in particular providing the stumbling block on more than one occasion.
Limerick did pump a few high ball on top of Downes (and later Dowling) and Paudie Maher, with Downes just shading it, but the Limerick forwards were quicker onto the breaking ball and made it count with the 21 yard free where the first goal came from and another harshly ruled out for Dowling playing the hurl I presume, although Kellys actions when awarding the free it is slightly unclear.
Either shooting from distance or dropping in high ball and battling for it in there negated the Tipp sweeper, with Brendan Maher quiet for large parts of the game, didn't make sense for Tipp to stay with that tactic IMO.
Bonner Maher did his utmost to win the game single handed for Tipp, his supporting cast let Tipp down when Limerick pushed for home in the dying minutes, drawing level then popping over the two insurance points, one from corner back Seamus Hickey who ran almost 40 yards unopposed to seal the victory.
Loughnane and Mulcahy on the sunday game last night were right to criticise the Tipp forwards for letting their opponents burst past them all too easy and put quality ball into their forwards, rather than force them backwards where the clearances would have to be on the back foot and higher in the air making it more likely to be a 50/50 contest. The Limerick forwards weren't as gracious and generous and worked like dogs to harry, jostle, hook, block and force the Tipp defenders to risk another pass and possibly lose possession.
Eamon O'Shea looks to be an unlucky manager as with all the faults in their play they could and should have won the game even if they didn't deserve to, maybe like last year the promising finish to the league is still masking the lack of championship hurlers on this Tipp team.
An unkind draw in the qualifiers and Tipp could be out by early July again.
Limerick will fancy their chances to go again, but this year a Munster championship won't be enough, they'll be wanting and needing to be in Croke park in September to whet the appetite this year.
So much for the league.
Limerick will have spent a lot of time looking at Clare thinking they could just as well have done it.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 02, 2014, 09:35:54 AM
Fair play to the Limerick lads, they'd their homework done on Tipp and ultimately just wanted it more when it came to the crunch.
Tipp at times did look impressive and worked the ball well and could have had a few more goals if it wasn't for last gasp blocks, flicks and hooks by the Limerick defence, Richie McCarthy in particular providing the stumbling block on more than one occasion.
Limerick did pump a few high ball on top of Downes (and later Dowling) and Paudie Maher, with Downes just shading it, but the Limerick forwards were quicker onto the breaking ball and made it count with the 21 yard free where the first goal came from and another harshly ruled out for Dowling playing the hurl I presume, although Kellys actions when awarding the free it is slightly unclear.
Either shooting from distance or dropping in high ball and battling for it in there negated the Tipp sweeper, with Brendan Maher quiet for large parts of the game, didn't make sense for Tipp to stay with that tactic IMO.
Bonner Maher did his utmost to win the game single handed for Tipp, his supporting cast let Tipp down when Limerick pushed for home in the dying minutes, drawing level then popping over the two insurance points, one from corner back Seamus Hickey who ran almost 40 yards unopposed to seal the victory.
Loughnane and Mulcahy on the sunday game last night were right to criticise the Tipp forwards for letting their opponents burst past them all too easy and put quality ball into their forwards, rather than force them backwards where the clearances would have to be on the back foot and higher in the air making it more likely to be a 50/50 contest. The Limerick forwards weren't as gracious and generous and worked like dogs to harry, jostle, hook, block and force the Tipp defenders to risk another pass and possibly lose possession.
Eamon O'Shea looks to be an unlucky manager as with all the faults in their play they could and should have won the game even if they didn't deserve to, maybe like last year the promising finish to the league is still masking the lack of championship hurlers on this Tipp team.
An unkind draw in the qualifiers and Tipp could be out by early July again.
Limerick will fancy their chances to go again, but this year a Munster championship won't be enough, they'll be wanting and needing to be in Croke park in September to whet the appetite this year.
Kelly was 60 yards away from that call Johnny ffs, while not his fault as the ball was pumped long and getting there to see that would have been tough, I know the umpires have mics so maybe they called it but he didn't play the stick and just challenged (fairly IMO) for the ball. Limerick didn't drop their heads and went on to win the match fair fecks to them.
Interesting quote from Shane Dowling. Limerick is a gas county.
QuoteMeanwhile, Shane Dowling revealed that he used an abusive text message as motivation for Sunday's game.
The Na Piarsaigh forward hit a superb 2-9 against the Premier County as Limerick registered their first win in Thurles since 1973.
"Last week, the chairman of the club showed me a text message from a journalist in Limerick," said Dowling. "I've no problem with someone voicing their opinion.
"Players play bad, they know they've played bad, but that particular person personally abused me in that text message. I don't say that lightly.
"Above nothing else I'm just delighted I got my chance today and I hope I answered him.
"It's been incredibly frustrating the way the players were questioned. The problem is when people go over the top and don't show you any respect, it's not nice.
"Thank God, that we answered that today."
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2014, 11:02:07 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 02, 2014, 09:35:54 AM
Fair play to the Limerick lads, they'd their homework done on Tipp and ultimately just wanted it more when it came to the crunch.
Tipp at times did look impressive and worked the ball well and could have had a few more goals if it wasn't for last gasp blocks, flicks and hooks by the Limerick defence, Richie McCarthy in particular providing the stumbling block on more than one occasion.
Limerick did pump a few high ball on top of Downes (and later Dowling) and Paudie Maher, with Downes just shading it, but the Limerick forwards were quicker onto the breaking ball and made it count with the 21 yard free where the first goal came from and another harshly ruled out for Dowling playing the hurl I presume, although Kellys actions when awarding the free it is slightly unclear.
Either shooting from distance or dropping in high ball and battling for it in there negated the Tipp sweeper, with Brendan Maher quiet for large parts of the game, didn't make sense for Tipp to stay with that tactic IMO.
Bonner Maher did his utmost to win the game single handed for Tipp, his supporting cast let Tipp down when Limerick pushed for home in the dying minutes, drawing level then popping over the two insurance points, one from corner back Seamus Hickey who ran almost 40 yards unopposed to seal the victory.
Loughnane and Mulcahy on the sunday game last night were right to criticise the Tipp forwards for letting their opponents burst past them all too easy and put quality ball into their forwards, rather than force them backwards where the clearances would have to be on the back foot and higher in the air making it more likely to be a 50/50 contest. The Limerick forwards weren't as gracious and generous and worked like dogs to harry, jostle, hook, block and force the Tipp defenders to risk another pass and possibly lose possession.
Eamon O'Shea looks to be an unlucky manager as with all the faults in their play they could and should have won the game even if they didn't deserve to, maybe like last year the promising finish to the league is still masking the lack of championship hurlers on this Tipp team.
An unkind draw in the qualifiers and Tipp could be out by early July again.
Limerick will fancy their chances to go again, but this year a Munster championship won't be enough, they'll be wanting and needing to be in Croke park in September to whet the appetite this year.
Kelly was 60 yards away from that call Johnny ffs, while not his fault as the ball was pumped long and getting there to see that would have been tough, I know the umpires have mics so maybe they called it but he didn't play the stick and just challenged (fairly IMO) for the ball. Limerick didn't drop their heads and went on to win the match fair fecks to them.
I know he was well away from the foul, I'm not criticising him for that as it was a long delivery in, he's not superman, but he was very quick to give it so I presumed it was his call, It was his actions as if he played the hurl, which he didn't as Maher catches on his right hand, Dowling was on Mahers right side and attempted to play the ball, he got Mahers arm, which isn't all that uncommon and rarely a foul is given. Mahers hurl wasn't played at all.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 03, 2014, 10:08:22 AM
Interesting quote from Shane Dowling. Limerick is a gas county.
QuoteMeanwhile, Shane Dowling revealed that he used an abusive text message as motivation for Sunday's game.
The Na Piarsaigh forward hit a superb 2-9 against the Premier County as Limerick registered their first win in Thurles since 1973.
"Last week, the chairman of the club showed me a text message from a journalist in Limerick," said Dowling. "I've no problem with someone voicing their opinion.
"Players play bad, they know they've played bad, but that particular person personally abused me in that text message. I don't say that lightly.
"Above nothing else I'm just delighted I got my chance today and I hope I answered him.
"It's been incredibly frustrating the way the players were questioned. The problem is when people go over the top and don't show you any respect, it's not nice.
"Thank God, that we answered that today."
After reading your man HJ Martins book and some of the stuff he'd on AFR about the goings on in Limerick at CB level and what not, they really are a hindrance to themselves, not to mention the amount of abuse the players take from fans, journalists and whatever. I does seem to be open season in Limerick every year, sure look at the goings on with Donal O'Grady and the CB letter drafted where he was supposed to write that he was displeased with the teams league performances. Is there another county that this would possibly happen?
IIRC Martin had a story about a Limerick team which had 15 selectors with changes going on right, left and centre and the manager at the time not knowing anything about it. This was probably in the 70's or early 80's before the cult of manager kicked in, but all the regional boards and big clubs had to have their say.
The players really need to huge pat on the back for getting on with it considering all the shit they have to deal with.
The problem with Limerick is that they have serious delusions of grandeur. I'd love them to win an All Ireland, but they seriously overestimate themselves. They have won 2 All Irelands since 1940, yet still believe they should be winning every All Ireland. In may ways it's admirable, but it causes serious self harm when things are not proceeding as they 'should'. This causes all sorts of internal blood letting, and the players getting caught up in it, if not actually sacrificed themselves.
They cannot bring themselves to say that the likes of Offaly, Galway and Clare could be winning All Irelands, unless there is something fundementally flawed in Limerick.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 03, 2014, 10:27:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2014, 11:02:07 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 02, 2014, 09:35:54 AM
Fair play to the Limerick lads, they'd their homework done on Tipp and ultimately just wanted it more when it came to the crunch.
Tipp at times did look impressive and worked the ball well and could have had a few more goals if it wasn't for last gasp blocks, flicks and hooks by the Limerick defence, Richie McCarthy in particular providing the stumbling block on more than one occasion.
Limerick did pump a few high ball on top of Downes (and later Dowling) and Paudie Maher, with Downes just shading it, but the Limerick forwards were quicker onto the breaking ball and made it count with the 21 yard free where the first goal came from and another harshly ruled out for Dowling playing the hurl I presume, although Kellys actions when awarding the free it is slightly unclear.
Either shooting from distance or dropping in high ball and battling for it in there negated the Tipp sweeper, with Brendan Maher quiet for large parts of the game, didn't make sense for Tipp to stay with that tactic IMO.
Bonner Maher did his utmost to win the game single handed for Tipp, his supporting cast let Tipp down when Limerick pushed for home in the dying minutes, drawing level then popping over the two insurance points, one from corner back Seamus Hickey who ran almost 40 yards unopposed to seal the victory.
Loughnane and Mulcahy on the sunday game last night were right to criticise the Tipp forwards for letting their opponents burst past them all too easy and put quality ball into their forwards, rather than force them backwards where the clearances would have to be on the back foot and higher in the air making it more likely to be a 50/50 contest. The Limerick forwards weren't as gracious and generous and worked like dogs to harry, jostle, hook, block and force the Tipp defenders to risk another pass and possibly lose possession.
Eamon O'Shea looks to be an unlucky manager as with all the faults in their play they could and should have won the game even if they didn't deserve to, maybe like last year the promising finish to the league is still masking the lack of championship hurlers on this Tipp team.
An unkind draw in the qualifiers and Tipp could be out by early July again.
Limerick will fancy their chances to go again, but this year a Munster championship won't be enough, they'll be wanting and needing to be in Croke park in September to whet the appetite this year.
Kelly was 60 yards away from that call Johnny ffs, while not his fault as the ball was pumped long and getting there to see that would have been tough, I know the umpires have mics so maybe they called it but he didn't play the stick and just challenged (fairly IMO) for the ball. Limerick didn't drop their heads and went on to win the match fair fecks to them.
I know he was well away from the foul, I'm not criticising him for that as it was a long delivery in, he's not superman, but he was very quick to give it so I presumed it was his call, It was his actions as if he played the hurl, which he didn't as Maher catches on his right hand, Dowling was on Mahers right side and attempted to play the ball, he got Mahers arm, which isn't all that uncommon and rarely a foul is given. Mahers hurl wasn't played at all.
I thought he shouldn't have give the foul, we are always told you can only give it if you see it, I've 20/20 vision and in the heat of the action and being that distance away I wouldn't have called that, you'd have to deal with the flack of not being in the right position but that comes with the territory. other than that I thought he was grand
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 03, 2014, 11:16:04 AM
The problem with Limerick is that they have serious delusions of grandeur. I'd love them to win an All Ireland, but they seriously overestimate themselves. They have won 2 All Irelands since 1940, yet still believe they should be winning every All Ireland. In may ways it's admirable, but it causes serious self harm when things are not proceeding as they 'should'. This causes all sorts of internal blood letting, and the players getting caught up in it, if not actually sacrificed themselves.
They cannot bring themselves to say that the likes of Offaly, Galway and Clare could be winning All Irelands, unless there is something fundementally flawed in Limerick.
Haha, Limerick = Mayo of hurling so.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2014, 06:37:22 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 03, 2014, 10:27:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2014, 11:02:07 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 02, 2014, 09:35:54 AM
Fair play to the Limerick lads, they'd their homework done on Tipp and ultimately just wanted it more when it came to the crunch.
Tipp at times did look impressive and worked the ball well and could have had a few more goals if it wasn't for last gasp blocks, flicks and hooks by the Limerick defence, Richie McCarthy in particular providing the stumbling block on more than one occasion.
Limerick did pump a few high ball on top of Downes (and later Dowling) and Paudie Maher, with Downes just shading it, but the Limerick forwards were quicker onto the breaking ball and made it count with the 21 yard free where the first goal came from and another harshly ruled out for Dowling playing the hurl I presume, although Kellys actions when awarding the free it is slightly unclear.
Either shooting from distance or dropping in high ball and battling for it in there negated the Tipp sweeper, with Brendan Maher quiet for large parts of the game, didn't make sense for Tipp to stay with that tactic IMO.
Bonner Maher did his utmost to win the game single handed for Tipp, his supporting cast let Tipp down when Limerick pushed for home in the dying minutes, drawing level then popping over the two insurance points, one from corner back Seamus Hickey who ran almost 40 yards unopposed to seal the victory.
Loughnane and Mulcahy on the sunday game last night were right to criticise the Tipp forwards for letting their opponents burst past them all too easy and put quality ball into their forwards, rather than force them backwards where the clearances would have to be on the back foot and higher in the air making it more likely to be a 50/50 contest. The Limerick forwards weren't as gracious and generous and worked like dogs to harry, jostle, hook, block and force the Tipp defenders to risk another pass and possibly lose possession.
Eamon O'Shea looks to be an unlucky manager as with all the faults in their play they could and should have won the game even if they didn't deserve to, maybe like last year the promising finish to the league is still masking the lack of championship hurlers on this Tipp team.
An unkind draw in the qualifiers and Tipp could be out by early July again.
Limerick will fancy their chances to go again, but this year a Munster championship won't be enough, they'll be wanting and needing to be in Croke park in September to whet the appetite this year.
Kelly was 60 yards away from that call Johnny ffs, while not his fault as the ball was pumped long and getting there to see that would have been tough, I know the umpires have mics so maybe they called it but he didn't play the stick and just challenged (fairly IMO) for the ball. Limerick didn't drop their heads and went on to win the match fair fecks to them.
I know he was well away from the foul, I'm not criticising him for that as it was a long delivery in, he's not superman, but he was very quick to give it so I presumed it was his call, It was his actions as if he played the hurl, which he didn't as Maher catches on his right hand, Dowling was on Mahers right side and attempted to play the ball, he got Mahers arm, which isn't all that uncommon and rarely a foul is given. Mahers hurl wasn't played at all.
I thought he shouldn't have give the foul, we are always told you can only give it if you see it, I've 20/20 vision and in the heat of the action and being that distance away I wouldn't have called that, you'd have to deal with the flack of not being in the right position but that comes with the territory. other than that I thought he was grand
So did I. His only really contentious decision luckily didn't have an impact on the final result, so he can be content with his days work.
The Deise got some pasting in the replay.
These reality checks are getting tiresome.
Double scores was a tough lesson for Waterford are nearly catching Cork on the hop the last day.
The highlight for waterford seems to have been the penalty save. How many other keepers will try the same?
(http://media.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/OKeefe-save-nash.jpg)
well considering the ruling interpretation given on the sunday game that the ball is alive once the lift has occurred then they'll all be at it..
Ger Lock fairly laying into Cork for preventing debate on the rule and suggesting that the ref yesterday, Johnny Ryan (Is he tipp?) was favourite for last years replay, but Cork didn't want him, how much say does Frank have when he can pick and chose the referees in AI finals??
I was told at a seminar a couple of years ago that the ball isn't live until the free taker strikes it. It's only then that the keeper or others can move.
Who knows?
If its alive from the lift as the referees say then players could charge any player taking any free not just a penalty. Its a mess and needs sorting asap.
Quote from: didlyi on June 09, 2014, 11:24:07 PM
If its alive from the lift as the referees say then players could charge any player taking any free not just a penalty. Its a mess and needs sorting asap.
The gaa have issued a press release that they will have interpretation of the rules sorted out by this weekend. Fair play to them for an unusual level of proactivity.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2014, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: didlyi on June 09, 2014, 11:24:07 PM
If its alive from the lift as the referees say then players could charge any player taking any free not just a penalty. Its a mess and needs sorting asap.
The gaa have issued a press release that they will have interpretation of the rules sorted out by this weekend. Fair play to them for an unusual level of proactivity.
That's all well and good but there was also a directive about face guards in hurling, if a player interferes with a helmet deliberately it is a red card offence, was playing a Southy game last night and one of the lads of the other team ripped off one of our players helmets and fecked it over the fence!!! Now I don't normally tell the referee he's out of order :P but when I challenged him on this he said nowt!! People put these new rules out and most club referees don't adhere to them ffs
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2014, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: didlyi on June 09, 2014, 11:24:07 PM
If its alive from the lift as the referees say then players could charge any player taking any free not just a penalty. Its a mess and needs sorting asap.
The gaa have issued a press release that they will have interpretation of the rules sorted out by this weekend. Fair play to them for an unusual level of proactivity.
It's great that this will be sorted out so soon. Gaa are not found wanting.
It's hard to see that the GAA will allow this charging of the free taker, otherwise you'd be able to do it out the pitch as well. However I have great sympathy for the goalies and defenders on the line when someone like Nash is allowed lift the ball, throw it 10 metres closer, and run in after it to smack it at full power, while you're expected to stay on the line shaking like a child sent to the headmaster's office.
The fairest solution in my opinion, but may require a rule change, is that the ball has to be struck from behind the 20 metre line in a penalty. Similar to a puck out, where the ball is supposed to be struck inside the small square. You can start your run from wherever you want, or you can end up outside the square afterwards, but the strike has to be inside the square.
In a 20 metre free situation, if you said the taker can place the ball back behind the line if he wishes, but has to lift and strike before reaching the 20m line, then that should allow the likes of Nash to take advantage of his outrageous lift and strike skill and timing, but also allows the defenders some protection.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2014, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: didlyi on June 09, 2014, 11:24:07 PM
If its alive from the lift as the referees say then players could charge any player taking any free not just a penalty. Its a mess and needs sorting asap.
The gaa have issued a press release that they will have interpretation of the rules sorted out by this weekend. Fair play to them for an unusual level of proactivity.
Franks been on the phone to Croke Park now that the current interpretation of the rule has negated the effect of Nash and TJ Reids lifting technique.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 10, 2014, 11:02:42 AM
It's hard to see that the GAA will allow this charging of the free taker, otherwise you'd be able to do it out the pitch as well. However I have great sympathy for the goalies and defenders on the line when someone like Nash is allowed lift the ball, throw it 10 metres closer, and run in after it to smack it at full power, while you're expected to stay on the line shaking like a child sent to the headmaster's office.
The fairest solution in my opinion, but may require a rule change, is that the ball has to be struck from behind the 20 metre line in a penalty. Similar to a puck out, where the ball is supposed to be struck inside the small square. You can start your run from wherever you want, or you can end up outside the square afterwards, but the strike has to be inside the square.
In a 20 metre free situation, if you said the taker can place the ball back behind the line if he wishes, but has to lift and strike before reaching the 20m line, then that should allow the likes of Nash to take advantage of his outrageous lift and strike skill and timing, but also allows the defenders some protection.
Aye allow both or neither. My preference would be to keep the 20 metre free a free from 20 metres out, not the 10 that it currently is with the forward throw from Nash etc. Badly needs sorted before teams get too far into the championship that these things start to matter.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 10, 2014, 11:02:42 AM
It's hard to see that the GAA will allow this charging of the free taker, otherwise you'd be able to do it out the pitch as well. However I have great sympathy for the goalies and defenders on the line when someone like Nash is allowed lift the ball, throw it 10 metres closer, and run in after it to smack it at full power, while you're expected to stay on the line shaking like a child sent to the headmaster's office.
This would require clarity in the rules that the strike must be where the free was awarded, not the lift. So the freetaker might have to start a ways back.
Stephen O'Keeffes leg after Sunday.
I think I can see the image of Jesus in there somewhere!
(http://www.irishexaminer.com/media/images/s/StephenOKeeffeWaterfordleg_large.jpg)
If this Nash interpretation of taking a free continues to be allowed, what is to stop a fella like Joe Canning lifting (throwing) the ball so it comes down 20 - 30 metres ahead and doubling it, thus making almost every free a shot on goal?
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2014, 02:35:31 PM
If this Nash interpretation of taking a free continues to be allowed, what is to stop a fella like Joe Canning lifting (throwing) the ball so it comes down 20 - 30 metres ahead and doubling it, thus making almost every free a shot on goal?
Nothing. That would be very hard to do though.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 10, 2014, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2014, 02:35:31 PM
If this Nash interpretation of taking a free continues to be allowed, what is to stop a fella like Joe Canning lifting (throwing) the ball so it comes down 20 - 30 metres ahead and doubling it, thus making almost every free a shot on goal?
Nothing. That would be very hard to do though.
That's why I said Canning. ;)
I'm not sure Canning is motoring so well these days. Not sure he'd catch up to it to be honest.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 10, 2014, 02:40:24 PM
I'm not sure Canning is motoring so well these days. Not sure he'd catch up to it to be honest.
;D Sadly, you're right AZ.
QuoteCROKE PARK CHIEFS have moved to address safety concerns around penalties in hurling by changing its rules.
Anthony Nash and other hurling stars will no longer be allowed to strike the ball within the 20m line. They will however be allowed to move the sliothar back up to 7m.
Waterford goalkeeper Stephen O'Keeffe bravely blocked a Nash shot on Sunday in his side's defeat to the Rebels, having run out as the Kanturk man lifted the ball.
"The players defending a penalty or free puck awarded on the centre point of the 20m line shall stand on their goal-line and may not move towards the 20m line until the ball has been actually struck," a GAA statement tonight reads. "Lifting the ball with the hurley does not constitute 'striking the ball'."
The changes will be in effect until next year's Congress.
Jesus, I feel unwell. They did what I suggested.
Bullshit.
Giving the advantage to the defending team.
Not really, just adhering to what the original rule was meant to be.
Fewer penalties will be scored now. If it is adhering to the original rule then the rule gives the advanatage to the defenders. This encourages cynical fouling. The number of players on the line needs to be reduced by at least one with this new rule.
Quote from: CorkMan on June 11, 2014, 01:00:48 AM
Fewer penalties will be scored now. If it is adhering to the original rule then the rule gives the advanatage to the defenders. This encourages cynical fouling. The number of players on the line needs to be reduced by at least one with this new rule.
This is a good point. Defenders will be much quicker to pull down attackers who are heading for goal. This new rule will reduce the percentage of attempts on goal from 20 yard frees and that cuts down on the excitement of the game. The Nash style was dangerous(though very skillful and exciting) but I don't think they needed to go this far to stop it.
I don't understand why they couldn't just put a limit on it. Say, if the free-taker could gain a max of 3 or 4 yards with the lift. That would have put things back to the way they were pre-Nash.
'Nash Free' dead after rule clarification
10 June 2014
The days of Anthony Nash gaining seven yards with his penalty and 20m free taking style look to be over after a recommendation from the GAA's Management Committee.
Central council will review the proposal and are expected to pass it, meaning the rule change will be in place from this weekend.
From now a player taking a penalty or 20m free can take a 7m run up but must not strike the sliotar inside the 20m line. A goalkeeper cannot leave his line until the ball is struck rather than lifted.
The GAA statement in full:
The Management Committee of the GAA has asked Central Council to consider and adjudicate on the following recommendations for Interpretations of Rule in relation to the Playing Rules of Hurling 2.2 Exceptions (i) and (ii), 2.3, 2.5 and 4.16(b)
* The terms "taken" or "retaken" in Rules 2.2 Exceptions (i) and (ii) and 2.3 shall mean the ball being "struck".
* A player taking a penalty or a 20m free puck, may bring the ball back up to seven metres from the 20m line for the purposes of making a traditional run at the ball, but shall strike the ball on or outside the 20m line but not inside it.
Exception: In the context of Rule 2.5, if a player taking a penalty or free puck on the actual 20m line fails to lift the ball at the first attempt or fails to strike it with the hurley, and that action causes the ball to marginally cross inside the 20m line, the player, as provided for in this Rule, shall be allowed to strike the ball on the ground without delay.
* (a) The players defending a penalty or free puck awarded on the centre point of the 20m line shall stand on their goal-line and may not move towards the 20m line until the ball has been actually struck. 'Lifting' the ball with the hurley does not constitute 'striking the ball'.
(b) The players defending a free puck awarded on the 20m line at a point other than on the centre point of that line shall stand a minimum of 20m from the point of award of the free and may not move closer to that point of award until the ball has been actually struck. 'Lifting' the ball with the hurley does not constitute 'striking the ball'
* This Interpretation shall, in accordance with Rule 3.43, Official Guide Part 1, have the force of Rule until Congress 2015, when the issues will be further addressed by way of Motion(s).
Quote from: Asal Mor on June 11, 2014, 03:34:05 AM
Quote from: CorkMan on June 11, 2014, 01:00:48 AM
Fewer penalties will be scored now. If it is adhering to the original rule then the rule gives the advanatage to the defenders. This encourages cynical fouling. The number of players on the line needs to be reduced by at least one with this new rule.
This is a good point. Defenders will be much quicker to pull down attackers who are heading for goal. This new rule will reduce the percentage of attempts on goal from 20 yard frees and that cuts down on the excitement of the game. The Nash style was dangerous(though very skillful and exciting) but I don't think they needed to go this far to stop it.
I don't understand why they couldn't just put a limit on it. Say, if the free-taker could gain a max of 3 or 4 yards with the lift. That would have put things back to the way they were pre-Nash.
The ball is now far lighter so the potential to score a 21 yard free was much greater than it was 20 years ago. I don't think a 21 yard free was ever meant to be a very good goal scoring chance. Why should you be allowed to take a 21 yard free from anywhere other than 21 yards? No other sport in the world allows free takers the latitude to take frees closer than where they're awarded nor would anyone justify claims that they should be by saying it gives them a better chance to score!
Quote from: hardstation on June 11, 2014, 08:25:50 AM
Should just take it out of the hand too ffs.
What I don't get is that nothing was done about this all winter as Cork were accused of blocking and resisting any move on the current ruling (which doesn't make sense), then after one keeper rushing Nash which the referee allowed Central Council can all of a sudden re-write the rule book??
How does that make sense?
It doesn't, but I suppose the rush out opens you up to even more injury and the GAA were scared of that. I don't see the problem with this to be honest. What Nash was doing was technically fine according to the rules, but was an obvious danger to the lads on the line. The rushing out was a natural progression, and I think they've found a decent compromise. Nash can still take a 7 metre run up if he likes, but the shot will at least have to travel 20 metres instead of 12 or 13.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2014, 09:16:01 AM
It doesn't, but I suppose the rush out opens you up to even more injury and the GAA were scared of that. I don't see the problem with this to be honest. What Nash was doing was technically fine according to the rules, but was an obvious danger to the lads on the line. The rushing out was a natural progression, and I think they've found a decent compromise. Nash can still take a 7 metre run up if he likes, but the shot will at least have to travel 20 metres instead of 12 or 13.
The end result IMO is also the best of a bad lot, but who in Croke park seen fit to change the 'interpretation' of the rules from last years, players must remain on the line until the ball is struck to yip the ball is live once its jabbed to yesterdays new ruling that the ball must be struck on the 20 Metre line??
Who are these people changing rules willy nilly?
I don't think it's a 'rule' change per se. I think it's an interpretation change. You see this a lot in soccer and rugby as well. The rule is probably still written exactly as it was, but they are asking referees to enforce this consistent interpretation. It's not an ideal solution, but I think it's going to help avoid some dangerous situations up and down the country, and it does still allow the big lift and run up too.
Flip side I see now is way more penalties now being saved. One extreme to the other.
Personally would prefer only the goalie on the line and the strike as it is now being proposed. Bit of drama with the odds rightly favouring the guy taking the penalty but still giving the goalie a chance.
Sliotar still far too light which is a big bugbear of mine.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2014, 09:36:23 AM
I don't think it's a 'rule' change per se. I think it's an interpretation change. You see this a lot in soccer and rugby as well. The rule is probably still written exactly as it was, but they are asking referees to enforce this consistent interpretation. It's not an ideal solution, but I think it's going to help avoid some dangerous situations up and down the country, and it does still allow the big lift and run up too.
Oh, its a rule change alright. Up until yesterday free takers were allowed to jab the ball forward inside the 20 metre line, now they can't. That to my mind is a rule change.
I don't think the wording of the rule has changed. Pedantic I know.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2014, 11:52:11 AM
I don't think the wording of the rule has changed. Pedantic I know.
Not yet. That rubber stamping will take place next April.
Yes, then it will be a rule change. Pedantic :)
Lads any idea yet on where the munster final will be played?
Hoping for a day out in thurles
If it's Limerick v Clare it'll probably be Thurles because I don't think Clare are in any home and away agreements because Ennis isn't good for that. If it's Cork v Limerick it'll be Cork I'd say because they were in Limerick last year.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2014, 12:39:33 PM
If it's Limerick v Clare it'll probably be Thurles because I don't think Clare are in any home and away agreements because Ennis isn't good for that. If it's Cork v Limerick it'll be Cork I'd say because they were in Limerick last year.
Thanks. I knew there were some home & away arrangements in place in munster but wasn't sure if Clare were involved in any.
Hopefully Limerick v Clare in Thurles then :)
Plenty of good nightlife in Cork if you're down the night before Sir. (more north derry I know)
Cork and Clare is in Thurles this Sunday if you fancy that just in case!
Quote from: johnneycool on June 11, 2014, 01:03:36 PM
Plenty of good nightlife in Cork if you're down the night before Sir. (more north derry I know)
Thanks 8) Been in Cork a few times, have some relatives down there. Never been to a game in Thurles before so that's my main goal this summer.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2014, 01:06:23 PM
Cork and Clare is in Thurles this Sunday if you fancy that just in case!
Aye I know that, thanks anyway. Have a charity 10K on sunday and it wouldn't really have suited anyway so hopefully get to the final
Quote from: Zulu on June 11, 2014, 08:12:24 AM
The ball is now far lighter so the potential to score a 21 yard free was much greater than it was 20 years ago. I don't think a 21 yard free was ever meant to be a very good goal scoring chance. Why should you be allowed to take a 21 yard free from anywhere other than 21 yards? No other sport in the world allows free takers the latitude to take frees closer than where they're awarded nor would anyone justify claims that they should be by saying it gives them a better chance to score!
I just fear we'll see a lot of cynical fouling when players are trying to get through on goal. That was the response from a lot of county players on Twitter too. Diarmuid O' Sullivan was joking about making a comeback as defenders will have a licence to kill, but maybe the black card can be used to discourage that.
It won't change the ratio of penalties scored not scored by a lot, if any. Anyone dragging a player down deliberately in hurling will/should be, by the rules get a yellow card. That defender will be walking a fine line in getting two yellows then the rest of the game.
Refs will be told to hand out yellows for these type tackles to sort out frequent such fouls
This should be a cracking second half, wee Fitzy will have to earn his money during half time to get Clare back into it
Cork versus Limerick should be a good match.
That Nash didn't take the penalty today proves he was breaking the rules and Cork knew it.
And the fact Horgan score two of them from that area proves they didn't need to do it.
Davy Fitz, like Mickey Harte in the football was less than impressed with the ref today - Cork scored 2-11 from frees. Has Davy a point or is Davy just trying to make excuses ?.
Quote from: orangeman on June 16, 2014, 12:49:38 AM
Davy Fitz, like Mickey Harte in the football was less than impressed with the ref today - Cork scored 2-11 from frees. Has Davy a point or is Davy just trying to make excuses ?.
Davy has a slight point as some decisions did go against them such as the podge collins going down over the ball with Shane O'Neill standing over him, McGrath gave the free to Cork for Collins not getting up off the ball, a few minutes later, same thing happened Cadogan with IcInerney standing over him, yet another free to Cork, lacking consistency.
At the same time the amount of arms and hurls around the neck and head yesterday made it hard to referee and TBH Clare were the biggest protagonists of this, although Cork were also at it.
Clare got beat because they made more mistakes whilst in possession and IMO Tuohy the keeper isn't as good as Kelly was last year and one of those frees could and should have been saved. They'll regroup and be hard to work with in the qualifiers.
Cork have improved immensely from the first day out against Waterford and have a good few options in the forwards now even with Lehane blowing hot and cold and Harnedy not really at himself yet.
They'll go into the game against Limerick as favourites now, but Limerick have a pretty good defensive unit so it'll be interesting.
Davy like Harte has more than a point. There was no consistency from James McGrath today. Deciding to allow a free forall in the second jalf was worse than the onesided whistling of the first half. Whilst Cork appeared to be the better team over the 70 minutes in my opinion the ref had too much influence on the outcome.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 16, 2014, 10:28:52 AM
Davy like Harte has more than a point. There was no consistency from James McGrath today. Deciding to allow a free forall in the second jalf was worse than the onesided whistling of the first half. Whilst Cork appeared to be the better team over the 70 minutes in my opinion the ref had too much influence on the outcome.
That point can sometimes be lost in the delivery with both Davy and Mickey Harte.
If you stand a berate a referee for every decision he gives against you even when they're genuine fouls then when you have a valid point its just put down to you ranting and raving as usual.
Bugler is a fierce man for the arms and hurl around the neck, his foul on Harnedy was correct and needless, yet Davy was going bonkers. As from last year referees are clamping down on these types of challenges Sometimes a referee gives the opposition more fouls just because you are indeed fouling more.
Davy will circle the wagons in the camp, create an 'everyone hates us' mentality and hope that this is the spur to get the team ticking again.
IMO Harte has not right to complain about the time when he sends his keeper up to take frees 40 yards from goal, but thats for another well trodden thread.
I think if Clare had just concentrated on hurling, especially in the first half, instead of the sideshow antics, they would have been alot better off. They have a right to be aggrieved at some of the referring decisions but the abuse that the Clare players, and in particular hurley carrier number 2 for Clare (wearing the number 2 bib) were throwing at the officials can only do one thing, and subconsciously at least, turn them against you. Yer man was a joke, running all over the field, getting involved in everything, he was about to have a word with Pa Horgan at one stage when he was lining up for a free, Brian Gavin tells him to "cop the f*ck on" and get off the pitch (or words to that affect) and yer man sends a torrent of abuse Gavins way and ends up practically squaring up to him. Cork on the other hand appear almost gentlemanly in their approach, that has to have an impact on officials whether they are aware of it or not.
Davy is circling the wagons already :
Clare manager Davy Fitzgerald has called for certain bodies within the GAA to be investigated.
Fitzgerald was disgusted by James McGrath's officiating of yesterday's tie, refusing to elaborate, however, on whether or not he was making reference to the refereeing branch of the association when claiming "one or two bodies need to be looked into".
Earlier this year the All-Ireland-winning boss said Clare were targeted by referees throughout the league solely because of their newly acclaimed status.
Asked if Clare were disappointed with McGrath's performance, Fitzgerald hung his head. "Are you not going to answer that question?" queried one reporter.
"I don't need to. I don't need to," he replied. "Cork seemed to get a few soft frees which put them ahead early on. Their two goals came from frees. We were finding it a small bit harder to get frees," he continued.
"The second goal came off Aidan Walsh fielding a ball he shouldn't have got. He should not have been able to field a ball the way he did, got it in and I suppose James McGrath couldn't wait to blow the whistle then to give them a penalty. Cork won but I am pointing out the obvious things to you as well, so I am.
"I am not going to hide behind any issues. At the end of the day Cork were better on the field of play, so they were. It doesn't matter about decisions or lack of decisions, they were the better team today and I really feel that, but there are some things that badly need to be looked into in the GAA and one or two bodies need to be looked into.
"Listen, I will deal with this in my own way. There is something I might speak about at the end of the year. There is something that is going to have to be looked at because I knew something was going to happen today before the game even happened. If you know that going into a game you are wasting your time."
Davy would be better taking the tinfoil hat off.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 17, 2014, 07:50:59 AM
Davy would be better taking the tinfoil hat off.
Davy seems to be getting a bit of support from within his own county, considering his Da is county secretary its hardly a surprise;
From Hoganstand;
Banner chief calls for full investigation
17 June 2014
Clare players surround referee James McGrath after he awards a penalty to Cork during the Munster SHC semi final at Semple Stadium. INPHO
Clare County Board chairman Michael McDonagh has called for a full investigation into Sunday's Munster SHC semi-final defeat to Cork at Thurles.
The Banner County camp were particularly unimpressed by the performance of referee James McGrath and McDonagh says the whole game should be analysed as well as events before and after half time:
"We just want to make sure what happened in Thurles yesterday never happens again," he told The Irish Examiner on Monday.
"We were beaten by a better team - we have no problem with that but there are issues during that match that should be analysed by the higher authorities in Croke Park. And action should be taken.
"The whole match should be analysed from A-Z. They're big enough men to see exactly what went on there. What I'm looking for is a complete analysis of the game by GAA management. They should get this done and a report should be sent out to each of the counties.
"Everybody deserves to know exactly what went on there. We're training county teams for a long, long time. We put a lot of effort into it and the bottom line is that I'm looking for a fair analysis of the game.
"It costs hundreds of thousands to prepare a team. I'm not pointing my finger at anybody and I want a report back from the management committee. It's not a major thing to do."
- See more at: http://www.hoganstand.com/Hurling/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=218535#sthash.BG3zRzhJ.dpuf
Clare would sicken your shit. Back when Loughnane was over them they went from being the nation's favourites to the pantomime baddie in about 6 months. Davy seems intent on repeating the dose.
The Banner County camp were particularly unimpressed by the performance of referee James McGrath and McDonagh says the whole game should be analysed as well as events before and after half time:
What is meant to have happened? I know McGrath was waiting on wee Davy to come out before starting the second half, but Davy didn't show. I wonder was he going to show him to the stands??
"there are some things that badly need to be looked into in the GAA and one or two bodies need to be looked into"
"There is something I might speak about at the end of the year. There is something that is going to have to be looked at because I knew something was going to happen today before the game even happened. If you know that going into a game you are wasting your time."
There will always be grievances with an individual refereeing performance, however Davy seems to be intimating that there are dark forces at work in the GAA to bring down Clare :-\
If they think the ref cheated them, they should say as much. But they won't. Weasels.
What a tosser, and while I was questioning some of the decisions there is no way referees are being instructed to 'take a team down' What a complete and utter tool. Keep publically attacking the referees and he'll get nothing the rest of the year, any marginal decisions will go against them.
I'd say McGrath got 2/3 decisions wrong and that's because I had the luxury of video replay. How many mistakes did Wee Davy make? Clare lost the fight, tactically and mentally. JBM is a class act
Reports coming out that McGrath was 'interfered with' in the tunnel at half time. I think that's what McGrath was waiting for. Of course little pipsqueak waited until the game had started before he came out.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 16, 2014, 10:49:01 AM
If you stand a berate a referee for every decision he gives against you even when they're genuine fouls then when you have a valid point its just put down to you ranting and raving as usual.
+1. If you're as unsporting in your attitude to referees as Davy has been all his career, then you deserve any bad decisions you get. AZ is right about the Loughnane similarity. It's looking like '98 all over again. It seems inevitable that Offaly will come through the back door and beat Kilkenny in the final.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 17, 2014, 02:05:36 PM
What a t**ser, and while I was questioning some of the decisions there is no way referees are being instructed to 'take a team down' What a complete and utter tool. Keep publically attacking the referees and he'll get nothing the rest of the year, any marginal decisions will go against them.
I'd say McGrath got 2/3 decisions wrong and that's because I had the luxury of video replay. How many mistakes did Wee Davy make? Clare lost the fight, tactically and mentally. JBM is a class act
I don't buy the conspiracy thing (and if I did I would say it's anti-Davy, not anti-Clare). Equally Clare should have learnt from 98 that these things go from motivating factor to millstone very quick.
However, I include a cut and paste from Clare hurlers forum which show that in the first half alone there was more that 2/3 decisions:
Quotewill make it easy for folks...times from on rte player feed above..look at the elapsed time between each of these events
min 17.24 Cronin collect ball, falls going forward, no contact, surrounded while trying to get up, free in
18.09 Head high tackle on Conlon, forces causes Kearney to drop hurl, Conlon breaks "tackle" and scores, no caution no free
21.10 Cadogan collects balls going away from goal and runs straight into OConnor with elbow up, Free in, no use of arms etc
26:48 Podge Collins ankle tapped going to collect ball, Cork player ensures he cannot get up, Cork free
27:30 Harnedy falls forward into McInerney after collecting Walsh pass, no use of hands no interference, Cork free
29:09 Double pull across Tony Kelly, second was a deliberate strike, Cork yellow...rules state its a red
30:34 Bill Cooper charges straight at Tuohy with hurl up, play on
33:11 Tuohy collects ball and comes out, Cadogan clearly puts his left arm up onto his helmet to prevent, Tuohy attempts to handpass, free in, Cork score
40:00 Bugler concedes soft free for use of hand in dropping ball, probably a free but normally not given, Cork score (see next incident)
42:58 Mcdonnell uses both hands to prevent McGrath getting to ball out on sideline, CLare crowd go nuts, no free
43:07 OConnor penalized for use of arm, often not given, but technically a free, for decent moved in 35m to scorable position, Cork score
44.40 Podge Collins cleaned, no free,play on, Galvin has to collect and beat a player before scoring off his left....then ref books Kearney.....no free!
45:42, ball drops to MF, Kelly absolutely taken out of it as it drops, ball delivered inside, Cadogan fails to collect, Browne surrounds him using arms, free in, Bugler receiving treatment, Cork goal
Also just on half time Conor Ryan was completely taken out but McGrath was looking up the field to see where his clearance would go.
Cards on table here: I am from Clare, was at the match and was never as dismayed by a referee as that.
That said I think Clare have more issues to tackle than consistency of referees.
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 18, 2014, 01:50:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 17, 2014, 02:05:36 PM
What a t**ser, and while I was questioning some of the decisions there is no way referees are being instructed to 'take a team down' What a complete and utter tool. Keep publically attacking the referees and he'll get nothing the rest of the year, any marginal decisions will go against them.
I'd say McGrath got 2/3 decisions wrong and that's because I had the luxury of video replay. How many mistakes did Wee Davy make? Clare lost the fight, tactically and mentally. JBM is a class act
I don't buy the conspiracy thing (and if I did I would say it's anti-Davy, not anti-Clare). Equally Clare should have learnt from 98 that these things go from motivating factor to millstone very quick.
However, I include a cut and paste from Clare hurlers forum which show that in the first half alone there was more that 2/3 decisions:
Quotewill make it easy for folks...times from on rte player feed above..look at the elapsed time between each of these events
min 17.24 Cronin collect ball, falls going forward, no contact, surrounded while trying to get up, free in
18.09 Head high tackle on Conlon, forces causes Kearney to drop hurl, Conlon breaks "tackle" and scores, no caution no free
21.10 Cadogan collects balls going away from goal and runs straight into OConnor with elbow up, Free in, no use of arms etc
26:48 Podge Collins ankle tapped going to collect ball, Cork player ensures he cannot get up, Cork free
27:30 Harnedy falls forward into McInerney after collecting Walsh pass, no use of hands no interference, Cork free
29:09 Double pull across Tony Kelly, second was a deliberate strike, Cork yellow...rules state its a red
30:34 Bill Cooper charges straight at Tuohy with hurl up, play on
33:11 Tuohy collects ball and comes out, Cadogan clearly puts his left arm up onto his helmet to prevent, Tuohy attempts to handpass, free in, Cork score
40:00 Bugler concedes soft free for use of hand in dropping ball, probably a free but normally not given, Cork score (see next incident)
42:58 Mcdonnell uses both hands to prevent McGrath getting to ball out on sideline, CLare crowd go nuts, no free
43:07 OConnor penalized for use of arm, often not given, but technically a free, for decent moved in 35m to scorable position, Cork score
44.40 Podge Collins cleaned, no free,play on, Galvin has to collect and beat a player before scoring off his left....then ref books Kearney.....no free!
45:42, ball drops to MF, Kelly absolutely taken out of it as it drops, ball delivered inside, Cadogan fails to collect, Browne surrounds him using arms, free in, Bugler receiving treatment, Cork goal
Also just on half time Conor Ryan was completely taken out but McGrath was looking up the field to see where his clearance would go.
Cards on table here: I am from Clare, was at the match and was never as dismayed by a referee as that.
That said I think Clare have more issues to tackle than consistency of referees.
/Jim.
As I said (I'm also a referee) I thought McGrath missed 2/3 obvious frees, I don't think he did it on purpose, it serves no purpose to a referee who is looking to do well within his duties. Referees are getting scrutinised more and more now especially the football ones. The referee did not loose the game for Clare, Cork were the better team
Wee Davy seemed to suggest after the game that his players don't have the same hunger or spark as last year.
He's probably doing all this to motivate his own players with the "everybody is against us" routine.
I got a sense throughout the game that Cork we're getting the frees handier than Clare. Who knows what influences opinions subconciously at times. For all I know I could have a lingering dislike for Cork after the Ger McCarthy affair and that skewed my perspective.
Quote from: glens73 on June 18, 2014, 02:42:02 PM
Wee Davy seemed to suggest after the game that his players don't have the same hunger or spark as last year.
<insert apocryphal Larry O'Gorman "if I won another All-Ireland" quote here>
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2014, 10:29:13 AM
I got a sense throughout the game that Cork we're getting the frees handier than Clare. Who knows what influences opinions subconciously at times. For all I know I could have a lingering dislike for Cork after the Ger McCarthy affair and that skewed my perspective.
Is there any of those lads still on this particular panel, Shane O'Neill,maybe Nash and the older Cadogan, and a few others, but they weren't the main protagonists for what we know anyway.
Felt the ref was harsh on Clare too with some pretty obvious discrepancies in how rules were interpreted in pretty similar circumstances especially in the first half when the game was still in the mix.
I wouldn't make a whole pile of him playing on when Bugler was getting treated as we all want the game to go on, but I do remember him delaying a puck out or something until a Cork player returned to the field with a new helmet, he should have played on.
Reading Christy O Connor's brilliant book "Last Man Standing" about hurling goalkeepers, and the chapter about Davy is particularly interesting. The amount of preparation he put in was really phenomenal and it would make you sympathise with him a bit more when he's bollocking a ref for making a poor decision, or numerous poor decisions as was the case on Sunday. Referees should be sacred in all sports as they are in rugby, and I imagine they'd do a better job if they weren't being abused, but I can understand Davy's frustrations when you read about how much he puts into it.
He's hardly putting in more than anyone else. Clare have embarrassed themselves and Davy is a big part of that. The ref didn't make that many mistakes as far as I remember.
Cork by a good few tomorrow. Can't see Cork hurlers performing the same way as the footballers last week in the Pairc's last big game. It will be thronged.
I can't see it being Cork by 'a good few' myself. They may win it, but that Limerick team is not bad, and they won't lie down. There'll be a big Limerick crowd there too.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 12, 2014, 10:26:53 AM
I can't see it being Cork by 'a good few' myself. They may win it, but that Limerick team is not bad, and they won't lie down. There'll be a big Limerick crowd there too.
By a good few I mean 6/7. Limerick aren't bad and won't lie down is right but I think Cork will have too much for them.
Fancy Limerick myself, Cork have beaten a poor, injury hit Waterford and an out of sorts Clare. Limerick could just as easily have won the All Ireland last year and I think they have a decent chance of doing so again this year.
Interesting interview from Davey earlier, pity he didn't let rip ;D
http://www.joe.ie/sport/video-the-bizarre-davy-fitzgerald-interview-that-everyones-talking-about/497132
Good 2nd half though
Jeez but Davy is a pure ass .Makes it very hard to root for Clare
Was there a big hoohaa about the halftime shenanigans? Or is that left for the football rruffians only?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 25, 2015, 07:42:51 AM
Was there a big hoohaa about the halftime shenanigans? Or is that left for the football rruffians only?
Didn't get to see the live game half time analysis, but it got a good airing in the evening showing with Mick Kavanagh and Donal O'G both agreeing that the referee got it right. I'm not so sure the straight red for Seany Tobin though, thought both were at it on his arrival and the Clare lad made a meal of the dig in the ribs, probably correct by the book, but harsh in my mind.
Over the 70 minutes, whilst there were a few questionable decisions, I thought it was evenly balance, timing aside, but Davy really needs to look at how his players tackle.
Their first instinct is the spare arm drag around the chest or arm or wherever and referees don't miss that, they need to be cuter than that. I'd be hard to argue against any of the frees awarded against his team, or indeed any that Limerick conceded.
I thought the ref did well overall and certainly applied the rules a lot better than some, Brian Gavin doesn't apply the rules IMO.
As for the game itself, the Clare style is reliant on a good first touch and they didn't have that yesterday, TBH, neither did Limerick, a very ring rusty first half in particular. Thought the second half was much better with some fantastic scores taken by both sides, although the two goals scored by Aaron Cunningham were sublime and he's carrying his U21 form into the seniors seamlessly. He along with Kelly, Conlon and O'Donnell are a good potent set of forwards, but lack aerial ball winners, Conlon excepted, hence Davy's passing game.
Limerick will need a vast improvement in the meeting with Tipp, but they're a big physical outfit who seem to prefer the long range point taking to circumvent the packed defences and on a good day it works well, but too many wides will cause them to change tack and I'm not sure if plan B in getting goals is their strong point.
The young lad Lynch certainly doesn't lack confidence (He's the head of a Carey on him for sure), but he was feeding on scraps and doing well at it, but he'll meet better defenders the next day out.
Gift grub with Davey singing about Marty Morrissey this morning was very funny, maybe they'll now have to apologise as well?
Waterford v Cork again in Thurles tomorrow for the 4th time in the last year. Brian Murphy is back on Cork team after rejoining the squad in last few weeks so big call there from the Cork management. I'd expect it to be closer than league final and Paraic Mahony is a big loss. Derek McGrath has been playing things down since the league final and talking Cork up.
I'll go for a narrow Waterford win.
Serious first half!! Pace is flying
Jesus and the call Waterford the Donegal of hurling, it would take Donegal 6 matches to score 3.19.
Hurling saves the weekend again. Well, except in Portlaoise obviously, that was bollix. To be honest I thought it was a poor first half in Thurles. So many bad, bad wides from distance, especially by Austin Gleeson and Aidan Walsh. It fired into life with the two great goals, but the second half was far better I thought, and much more like MSHC fare.
By the way, is there any other team out there like Waterford to celebrate? The celebrate everything so intensely. Goals, points, frees, sidelines, winning the toss. It's great to see the enthusiasm. I wonder sometimes in the big, big games do they get so wound up it actually tightens them up a bit? I always thought that about the McGrath/Dan/Browne/Mullane team. Some of them (Not Tony Browne mind you) nearly seemed on the verge of tears they were so passionate.
Great win for Waterford yesterday. A lot of the pundits tipped Cork but Waterford are used to that especially when playing more successful counties. We started slowly and Cork improved their tactics and play from league final but after Maurice Shanahan's great goal, followed by a fantastic Tadgh De Burca point and another good goal from Jake Dillon we never looked back. It was a bit nervy when Horgan scored the penalty but Waterford went down the other end and supersub Devine goaled again to finish it off in injury time leading to big celebrations from the Waterford fans. We're in the Munster final and guaranteed at least a quarter final place in All Ireland with a good young team so have to happy with that.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 08, 2015, 02:16:40 PM
Jesus and the call Waterford the Donegal of hurling, it would take Donegal 6 matches to score 3.19.
Donegal scored 3-14 against Dublin in the All Ireland Semi-final last year, A counter attacking team can still score bucket loads.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2014/0831/640488-dublin-v-donegal/
Quote from: waterfordlad on June 08, 2015, 02:29:21 PM
We're in the Munster final and guaranteed at least a quarter final place in All Ireland with a good young team so have to happy with that.
Heard McGrath on Newstalk yesterday evening and he wasn't too happy with Waterford people mentioning an AIQF to him after the match instead of the Munster final. Would be great to see Waterford win an All Ireland
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 09, 2015, 11:43:26 AM
Quote from: waterfordlad on June 08, 2015, 02:29:21 PM
We're in the Munster final and guaranteed at least a quarter final place in All Ireland with a good young team so have to happy with that.
Heard McGrath on Newstalk yesterday evening and he wasn't too happy with Waterford people mentioning an AIQF to him after the match instead of the Munster final. Would be great to see Waterford win an All Ireland
In fairness that's because Waterford people have had Munster titles in the recent past, and are dying for Liam. The manager is looking for his first Munster, so I'd imagine he's more worried about that for the moment.
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 09, 2015, 11:43:26 AM
Quote from: waterfordlad on June 08, 2015, 02:29:21 PM
We're in the Munster final and guaranteed at least a quarter final place in All Ireland with a good young team so have to happy with that.
Heard McGrath on Newstalk yesterday evening and he wasn't too happy with Waterford people mentioning an AIQF to him after the match instead of the Munster final. Would be great to see Waterford win an All Ireland
McGrath is entirely right to put a lid on expectations, taking the undoubted pressure of a young team is what he's about it seems and that'll pay dividends in the long run.
There's some fantastic young hurlers coming through this year, Gleeson and Dunford kinda showed a bit of themselves last year, but there's another three or four handy ones along with them on that Waterford panel, the likes of Tony Kelly, Cunningham in Clare, Lynch in Limerick, Mannion and Flynn in the Galway forwards, Lehane in Cork, McDonald of Wexford, but it will all be more interesting how they fare later on in the year against the grizzled Kilkenny lads and a hurting Tipp who really need to win the AI to put some demons to bed!!
Very interesting times in hurling, hopefully we'll see a different set of ribbons on the bloody thing come September, no disrespect to Kilkenny or even Tipp, but hurling needs variety to whet the appetite.
I think Tipp need to win this All Ireland. If they don't there's a danger they'll fall away. I'm not sure if they have enough ball winners in the half forward line, which has been their bane for the last few years. The game in Limerick will be huge, but if they can't beat a Limerick team that has taken them in Thurles twice in a row, I don't think they'll have the fortitude to win an All Ireland.
They should just hand the trophy to Waterford now and forget about the rest of the Munster Championship!
Quote from: johnneycool on June 09, 2015, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 09, 2015, 11:43:26 AM
Quote from: waterfordlad on June 08, 2015, 02:29:21 PM
We're in the Munster final and guaranteed at least a quarter final place in All Ireland with a good young team so have to happy with that.
Heard McGrath on Newstalk yesterday evening and he wasn't too happy with Waterford people mentioning an AIQF to him after the match instead of the Munster final. Would be great to see Waterford win an All Ireland
McGrath is entirely right to put a lid on expectations, taking the undoubted pressure of a young team is what he's about it seems and that'll pay dividends in the long run.
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous post - he was saying it in terms of Waterford people thinking that they have a QF spot even if they
lose the Munster final whereas he wanted to focus on winning it
There's nothing wrong with mentioning the fact that we have a quarter-final place to fall back on. Not referring to it would not make it more likely that we'd win the Munster final.
Some serious young hurlers on that Waterford team alright, and their short passing is a joy to watch in full flow. There has been something bugging me for a while now though. Brick Walsh is a regarded as a legend in Waterford and rightly so, but he seems to go down far too easily for free's and every ref seems to fall for it. There's a difference between cuteness and flat out diving, and Brick is veering towards the latter IMO!
For all the justified talk about Gleeson, I reckon De Burca is every bit his equal and maybe better. Philip Mahony is a very fine hurler too.
Quote from: TheGreatGame on June 11, 2015, 04:21:04 PM
Some serious young hurlers on that Waterford team alright, and their short passing is a joy to watch in full flow. There has been something bugging me for a while now though. Brick Walsh is a regarded as a legend in Waterford and rightly so, but he seems to go down far too easily for free's and every ref seems to fall for it. There's a difference between cuteness and flat out diving, and Brick is veering towards the latter IMO!
For all the justified talk about Gleeson, I reckon De Burca is every bit his equal and maybe better. Philip Mahony is a very fine hurler too.
Love Brick myself ... he's a real steadying influence on this young team, but I've seen what you've seen in regard to him "waiting on the contact". Would also agree that De Burca has been the stand out defender in what is a very sold defense. Jamie Barron's the player who I've been most impressed with throughout the league and championship to date
Quote from: theskull1 on June 12, 2015, 10:25:42 PM
Quote from: TheGreatGame on June 11, 2015, 04:21:04 PM
Some serious young hurlers on that Waterford team alright, and their short passing is a joy to watch in full flow. There has been something bugging me for a while now though. Brick Walsh is a regarded as a legend in Waterford and rightly so, but he seems to go down far too easily for free's and every ref seems to fall for it. There's a difference between cuteness and flat out diving, and Brick is veering towards the latter IMO!
For all the justified talk about Gleeson, I reckon De Burca is every bit his equal and maybe better. Philip Mahony is a very fine hurler too.
Love Brick myself ... he's a real steadying influence on this young team, but I've seen what you've seen in regard to him "waiting on the contact". Would also agree that De Burca has been the stand out defender in what is a very sold defense. Jamie Barron's the player who I've been most impressed with throughout the league and championship to date
Hate seeing big lads going down so easily!! Makes a mockery out of the small hurlers (like myself ;) ) who managed to stay on their feet the whole game!!
Just realised this thread is a year out of date!
Anyway, big game in Pairc na Gael next weekend. I still have my suspicions about Tipperary when it becomes a 'battle', and there's not a team in Ireland who relish a battle like Limerick do. They have some very tidy hurlers too, and have had Tipp's number the last 2 years. Last year in particular was worrying for Tipp when the fat was in the fire, and Tipp blinked. That said they recovered well and ended up hurling in the last game of the year, but they will desperately want to get a win over Limerick.
There's some talk about the fitness of Bubbles and Paudie Maher, which would be an issue for Tipp obviously. I'll be interested to see who starts on the half forward line, and if they can get on top of a fiery Limerick half back line. Also interested to see who picks up Cian Lynch. He had a great game against Clare, and is seriously talented, but I think a lad like Cathal Barrett might be able to get close to him and dog him out of it.
Looking forward to it now, I always enjoy going to the Gaelic Grounds as well, no matter what the Mayo lads say :)
Tipperary will beat Limerick and beat them by a least half a dozen.points.
I was talking to a couple of panellists during the week and they said the vibe was really good and they are anxious to put Limerick back in their place.
Brutal game today. Its been a piss poor Munster championship to date in terms of quality. That Limerick defence was slower then a wet weekend in Barnsley.
They were brutal against Dublin in the league quarter final and haven't improved.
Tipp have very good forwards but Kilkenny would never give them that amount of room.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 21, 2015, 06:52:16 PM
Brutal game today. Its been a piss poor Munster championship to date in terms of quality. That Limerick defence was slower then a wet weekend in Barnsley.
They were brutal against Dublin in the league quarter final and haven't improved.
Tipp have very good forwards but Kilkenny would never give them that amount of room.
Tipp looked sharp up front yesterday, but they were aided by poor Limerick defending who allowed far too many one on one situations near their own goals. Tipp should have been out of sight at half time, the 6 point margin didn't do them justice. TJ took far too long to move Richie McCarthy off Callanan and then only replaced him mid way through the second half.
Tipp still have that old failing of allowing teams to get back at them, they stopped playing in the early stages of the second half and allowed Limerick to get back level, only for some poor shooting and decision making Limerick should have taken the lead and got some real momentum. In fairness to Tipp they did respond and in some style putting the game to bed early enough.
The final will be interesting as there's no way the Tipp forwards will get the same space they did today, and Waterford won't bomb the ball down on top of Paudie Maher, but Tipps defence and midfield are far superior to Corks and the Waterford lads won't be able to run past them just so easy as they did the last day out.
Hopefully they both go at it hammer and tongs as yesterdays game didn't really catch fire!
That was a strange game yesterday. I don't know what happened Limerick. Everyone knows Tipperary have lovely wristy hurlers who will murder you if you give them space, but they hate playing the likes of Limerick because they dog you and dog you and dog you. Turn every possession into a battle to retain it, and try to win all the 50-50s. Yesterday they started off like that, Richie McCarthy beat Callanan for 3 balls in a row and I thought Seamie was going to have another of those days that have plagued his career. Then a sloppy breakdown in the Limerick half back line, a piece of quick thinking by Bubbles Dwyer and Callanan has the ball in the back of the net and Tipp are off to the races.
They were intelligent against the wind, playing the ball up through the lines, full back line to half forward, half back to full forward, and all the balls were nice in front balls. Isolated, the likes of Hickey and McCarthy were just annihilated. The second goal was symptomatic of a full back in trouble, desperately trying to get back on top and overplaying a ball. You'd rarely see it in a club game.
I couldn't believe in the first half that Limerick didn't pressure the Tipperary puck out. Bad coaching I thought. Darren Gleeson has a big puckout, but against that breeze it was going to lad in the half forward line at best, and you'd expect a fired up Limerick to win at least 50% of them. Instead, against the wind, Darren just picked out Stapleton or O'Brien, and they worked it through the lines while Limerick stood off. It was very strange. In fact the only time they pushed on was in the last 5 minutes and the ended up with 2 or 3 scores from balls won from Tipp puckouts.
The second half saw the fury that we expected from Limerick, but watching it, you could just sense they had given themselves too much to do against the wind. They have dangerous forwards in Lynch, Dowling and Mulcahy, but they supporting cast is just not as good and they can't really be chasing games. You got the sense that if Tipp could weather the storm, they'd blow themselves out and Tipp would kick for home. That said it was still unnerving from a Tipp point of view, as old failings came back to haunt them. Ball after ball pucked into the forwards, and ball after ball coming back out as Limerick won every break for about 10 minutes. In fact it took a mistake to allow Jason Forde get a point which allowed Tipp settle a bit, and from their they opened their shoulders again and killed it off clinically.
It may have looked a bad game on TV, it certainly wasn't a classic even at it, but I would make allowances for the wind. It was very strong. At half time one of the Limerick Subs pucked a ball up into the air, a gentle lob, from 20 metres out. It reached the end line up in the air, and then was blown back where another sub caught it about 5 metres in.
Eek.
Eek my arse. I'd say Waterford are licking their chops. What's the feeling down there deiseach? Will they want the final in Tom Semple's field, or will they want Limerick? I presume this is one for the revamped park by the Lee in a few years.
There's no doubt there's a buoyant feeling down here, as measured by the number of car flags on display. It was interesting to see Eamon O'Shea reference the U-21's in his post-match interview. Clare and Offaly were Minor contenders in 1989, U-21 contenders in 1992, and so on. Waterford making the same kind of progress (the first two-thirds of it anyway) will have been noted.
I stand over 'eek' though. We play an extra man in defence. On the basis of what we saw yesterday, we're going to need it.
Any word from the Deise about preference for venue? Thurles is handier, but would they prefer neutral, i.e. Limerick?
I have no idea what the official line is. The fact that it hasn't been decided in advance suggests that there is scope for playing it in Thurles, i.e. show us the colour of your money, Mr/Ms Tipperary County Board. Personally I'm agnostic. Killarney - for the craic!
Jaysus, I never thought of Killarney. And there is precedent.
I'd prefer Thurles as Limerick is further away and could be a traffic nightmare and the only 2 big games Waterford have played there League final in 04 and Munster championship in 08 were bad days. Thurles is nearly a 2nd home for us at this stage.
There could be a bit of negotiating to be done on this.
Tipperary looked scary yesterday with the forwards they have but I reckon Waterford would be better set up to defend than going one on one like Limerick did at times yesterday.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 22, 2015, 10:41:53 AM
Jaysus, I never thought of Killarney. And there is precedent.
Cork v Tipp 2004?
Quote from: heffo on June 22, 2015, 12:42:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 22, 2015, 10:41:53 AM
Jaysus, I never thought of Killarney. And there is precedent.
Cork v Tipp 2004?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKC4xu7MZ3M
That's actually what I was thinking of Premier Emporer :)
Cork v Clare in 1986 final was also in Killarney I think.
I see that there was a large brawl in Dungarvan v Mount Sion game at weekend with Austin Gleeson getting a straight red. Do club suspensions still carry over to inter-county, or is the carry over only for really serious offences?
It should only be in the grade received, unless it's one of the 48 week types.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 22, 2015, 01:09:19 PM
It should only be in the grade received, unless it's one of the 48 week types.
Contributing to a melee is all grades and levels afaik..
Quote from: Roashter on June 22, 2015, 01:08:29 PM
Cork v Clare in 1986 final was also in Killarney I think.
That's right. It's a nightmare to get to when two counties are travelling West to get there.
Final fixed for Thurles. Fair play to Waterford. The right message and they probably got a few euros for it too.
Some photo here. Seamie stayed on at the end of the game and signed autographs and posed for selfies. Sometimes we forget these lads are by and large genuinely nice guys. We can all be critical, so no harm to remind ourselves that not only are they only human, but most of them are pretty decent humans too.
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02388/1013588_2388460a.jpg)
(http://cdn1.independent.ie/incoming/article31319157.ece/4b4a6/ALTERNATES/h342/3%20callanan.jpg)
(http://cdn.thejournal.ie/embeds/twitter/eebff64b78e00967c61193a56cbd6187.png)
That is a serious capture by the photographer.
Would make other hurlers aware of the need for a gum shield when you see that happening. Don't think I would be hanging around after a game if I'd lost teeth like that. Meas mór to Callanan.
Quote from: redsetanta on June 24, 2015, 01:11:50 PM
That is a serious capture by the photographer.
Would make other hurlers aware of the need for a gum shield when you see that happening. Don't think I would be hanging around after a game if I'd lost teeth like that. Meas mór to Callanan.
Maybe if they didn't remove bars from their helmets?
Or use the special Tipp or Kilkenny faceguards that have passed no safety standard?
I've yet to see a referee implement the rules in relation to altered faceguards
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: redsetanta on June 24, 2015, 01:11:50 PM
That is a serious capture by the photographer.
Would make other hurlers aware of the need for a gum shield when you see that happening. Don't think I would be hanging around after a game if I'd lost teeth like that. Meas mór to Callanan.
Maybe if they didn't remove bars from their helmets?
Or use the special Tipp or Kilkenny faceguards that have passed no safety standard?
I've yet to see a referee implement the rules in relation to altered faceguards
Has nothing to do with it at all. Referees have enough to do without running around checking safety certificates for faceguards FFS.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: redsetanta on June 24, 2015, 01:11:50 PM
That is a serious capture by the photographer.
Would make other hurlers aware of the need for a gum shield when you see that happening. Don't think I would be hanging around after a game if I'd lost teeth like that. Meas mór to Callanan.
Maybe if they didn't remove bars from their helmets?
Or use the special Tipp or Kilkenny faceguards that have passed no safety standard?
I've yet to see a referee implement the rules in relation to altered faceguards
Referees are not gym teachers checking to see if kids have the right colour soles on their runners!
Quote from: Premier Emperor on June 26, 2015, 11:21:16 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: redsetanta on June 24, 2015, 01:11:50 PM
That is a serious capture by the photographer.
Would make other hurlers aware of the need for a gum shield when you see that happening. Don't think I would be hanging around after a game if I'd lost teeth like that. Meas mór to Callanan.
Maybe if they didn't remove bars from their helmets?
Or use the special Tipp or Kilkenny faceguards that have passed no safety standard?
I've yet to see a referee implement the rules in relation to altered faceguards
Referees are not gym teachers checking to see if kids have the right colour soles on their runners!
No, but if the insurance companies stop divvying up due to these rogue helmets, then we'd soon see a change of attitude.
FWIW,
I don't think even the regulated helmets would have saved Callanan's teeth as they're fixed the exact same way, hinge at the top and two straps from the chin area, albeit they may allow a little more room between the faceguard and the nose/teeth area.
Quote from: Franko on June 25, 2015, 12:36:27 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: redsetanta on June 24, 2015, 01:11:50 PM
That is a serious capture by the photographer.
Would make other hurlers aware of the need for a gum shield when you see that happening. Don't think I would be hanging around after a game if I'd lost teeth like that. Meas mór to Callanan.
Maybe if they didn't remove bars from their helmets?
Or use the special Tipp or Kilkenny faceguards that have passed no safety standard?
I've yet to see a referee implement the rules in relation to altered faceguards
Has nothing to do with it at all. Referees have enough to do without running around checking safety certificates for faceguards FFS.
Whose job is it so? A referee has a duty to protect the players
Not hard to stop a game and get a player to replace a faulty helmet
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 27, 2015, 08:29:47 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 25, 2015, 12:36:27 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: redsetanta on June 24, 2015, 01:11:50 PM
That is a serious capture by the photographer.
Would make other hurlers aware of the need for a gum shield when you see that happening. Don't think I would be hanging around after a game if I'd lost teeth like that. Meas mór to Callanan.
Maybe if they didn't remove bars from their helmets?
Or use the special Tipp or Kilkenny faceguards that have passed no safety standard?
I've yet to see a referee implement the rules in relation to altered faceguards
Has nothing to do with it at all. Referees have enough to do without running around checking safety certificates for faceguards FFS.
Whose job is it so? A referee has a duty to protect the players
Not hard to stop a game and get a player to replace a faulty helmet
Wait til it happens - then you'll see how hard it is. I don't know of many county panels that carry spare helmets. And how's a referee to know if it's 'faulty' or not? Does it come with a cert? A tamper proof seal? The main duty with regard to player protection lies with themselves. Next you'll have a referee checking hurls for loose nails and sharp edges.
Regardless, as JC says - it would have made no difference to Callinan either way. He's also correct WRT a change of attitude if insurance companies start to get their grubby fingers involved. But nobody in their right mind would advocate that sort of mindset. Get the right Health and Safety minded, pen-pushing monkey involved and they'd be looking to outlaw the sport altogether.
why have safety standards for helmets if the players are just allowed to change the faceguard or remove bars?
at a certain point you have to follow some sort of rules on playing equipment
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 27, 2015, 04:11:45 PM
why have safety standards for helmets if the players are just allowed to change the faceguard or remove bars?
at a certain point you have to follow some sort of rules on playing equipment
The answer to question 1 is because said Health and Safety minded, pen pushing monkey from an insurance company got involved. It wasn't so long ago that a player didn't even have to wear a helmet, never mind a faceguard. Now you want the referee to run around checking that 50 odd helmets and faceguards meet some daft safety standard before/during a game. Cop yerself on man, have you even begun to think of the practicalities of that? Referees and playing squads would be turning up 4 hours before a game to have their equipment checked. Then you'd have to keep the helmets under lock and key until just before the game started to stop players sticking the preferred faceguard back on again after they were checked.
Players do follow rules on helmets with faceguards. They wear them.
Whether it be sport, business or just general life, the more that guys that think like you can be kept the hell away from things and let others actually get stuff done, the better.
And to return to where this whole thing started, for the third time I'll repeat it... it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to Callinan either way.
the two players in that photo had illegal faceguards on
We'll never know if it wouldn't have made a difference.
I just know that two players were wearing illegal helmets and one of them sustained a serious dental injury.
So I suppose Franko, you've just proved yourself how important unaltered helmets are.
And not just to pen pushing insurance monkeys
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 27, 2015, 05:40:43 PM
I just know that two players were wearing illegal helmets and one of them sustained a serious dental injury.
So I suppose Franko, you've just proved yourself how important unaltered helmets are.
And not just to pen pushing insurance monkeys
His top teeth were broken from impact by his lower teeth. His faceguard shape or gaps had nothing to do with it.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 27, 2015, 05:40:43 PM
the two players in that photo had illegal faceguards on
We'll never know if it wouldn't have made a difference.
I just know that two players were wearing illegal helmets and one of them sustained a serious dental injury.
So I suppose Franko, you've just proved yourself how important unaltered helmets are.
And not just to pen pushing insurance monkeys
Some thinly stretched logic there!! Two players (both with modified helmets on) clash heads and one is absolutely fine. I could use that as evidence that the mods to the helmet made fcuk all difference. Anyway, the penny doesn't seem to be dropping with you. Heffo outlined what the cause of the injury was. No helmet provides protection against that.
Also, you just admitted that you haven't a clue whether the mods to the helmet made any difference or not. Yet earlier you had attributed the blame for the whole thing to this and had called for referees to clamp down on it?? This is why people like you should be kept away from any sort of decision making process like this. You haven't a clue what the problem is yet have went off on a stupid tangent shouting about unsafe helmets and blaming a referee for not doing his job properly. People that think like you create nothing but hassle and paperwork for others who are trying to get on with things.
Surely puts to bed the old "Callanan is windy" myth for once and for all. That showed phenomenal guts.
Quote from: Asal Mor on June 29, 2015, 10:32:19 PM
Surely puts to bed the old "Callanan is windy" myth for once and for all. That showed phenomenal guts.
It's a different type of courage. And I hate that old 'windy' shite anyway. However it doesn't put to rest the fact that Seamie struggles to win his own ball against a tight, physical opponent, especially when the fat is in the fire. It's the ability to grab a game that's going against you, and win an important puckout or a vital 50-50.
It's not just Seamie, and the Tipp forwards will have to sort it out. When Limerick were on top, the same old failings were apparent. I think it took Brendan Maher to hit a bad wide, which cause a puck out that was hit straight to Jason Forde, for him to get a vital point. That sort of small thing was important last Sunday week.
You have to be able to win a ball in the forwards when the game is in the melting pot.
Yeah he needs a certain kind of ball played into him, but like yourself I can't stand the term "windy" and the way it's used so often to describe a player who is not just a brilliant hurler but also delivers when needed most. He has the courage to go for goals where most lads would tap it over. Imo he has a serious pair of liathroidi.
I don't think, and never have thought, that Séamus Callinan lacked courage. But staying on the pitch and loitering around the ground after having all those teeth knocked out makes me wonder whether the sense was knocked out of him as well.
I will be at at Thurles next week sampling Munster hurling for the first time. I have a few questions.
Where is good for a pint before and after?
We are standing on the Killinan End, will it be dominated by supporters from one side or is it mixed?
Can't wait!
There's plenty pubs in the Square in Thurles and on street on way out to ground like Ryans, Kennedys, Coppingers/Corbetts and there will be a good atmosphere next Sunday. You can get a drink at ground itself too. Tipperary fans are in Killinan end next Sunday and Waterford fans are in Town End. Only tickets I've seen left online are in Town End so could be a bit of mixing of fans in that end.
I'm looking forward to the game now. Enjoy your trip to Thurles.
The Square has a great atmosphere on Munster final day, though Waterford can bring a rough crowd with them that might start acting up. You'll probably leave yourself short on time to visit the pubs on the way from the square to the ground. If you are coming in from the Twomileborris side, grab a 6 pack in Aldi on the way and have them with you for the terrace.
Really looking forward to this. Hope Tipp can do it, as this bunch need a trophy I think. It will be interesting to see how Tipp deal with Waterford's set up. Waterford are on a high, and seem to be very together, but so are Tipp. Hopefully it's a cracker.
If anyone hasn't seen this yet, it's very impressive....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s65PR7_T8ls
The Waterford crossbar challenge.
That was harder than I imagined, but great to have the Munster title back.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM
That was harder than I imagined, but great to have the Munster title back.
Not a great game in all fairness, but intriguing all the same. Tipp got the start that they wanted, but Kevin Moran started getting onto the ball and bringing Waterford back into the game well. It was nip and tuck from then till the last 10 minutes where Tipp managed to get the 4 and 5 point lead to have a bit of a cushion to see them home and hosed.
Waterfords stickwork wasn't as crisp as it had been, but that could be put down to the Tipp lads closing down quickly and denying the space to get the moves going. O'Shea should be credited with getting that right although he does seem to be slow in making the moves which seemed a bit obvious, bringing Callanan and O'Dwyer out were no brainers and made the difference.
Inexperience may have cost Waterford, too often Dunford in particular seemed to take too much out of the ball, running down corners, making the shooting angle worse with every stride, others pumping long ball either dropping harmlessly wide or into the unmarked arms of Paudie Maher or the Keeper. The two Waterford shots for goal shouldn't really be bothering a keeper at this level and were easily saved.
Maybe the setup isn't conducive to getting goals unless breaking at speed into the area, but I'm sure Derek McGrath will be happy enough that his young team, many their first big senior outing will have learned that they're ready for it and will still have something to offer this year, let alone the future.
For Tipp, nothing less than an AI will suffice this year
Inevitable. Tipperary always had too much.
Lacklustre contest.
Posted this on the other thread....
was an unusual game alright. (I think this should be in the Munster Championship thread, but sure how and ever). I think Tipp out thought themselves. They were so determined to play diagonal balls that they played them even when they weren't on. Tipp's route to success is down the wing, or else carrying through the middle. When the half backs and corner backs hit the long straight delivery, especially on the left side of Waterford's defence, they had some joy. When they hit aimless 100 yard clearances down to a 4 or 5 man inside back line, or else blindly hit diagonal balls which were cut out in the centre of the field, it was soul destroying.
One thing I couldn't believe from Tipp, when the game was going against them, was how long it took for them to move Bubbles and Callanan out to the 40. If your best scorers are not getting on the ball, and that is largely due to them being suffocated inside, bring them out. Let them get on handy ball 50 or 60 yards out. These lads can score from there. It made so much sense, that it's a bit worrying it took so long to happen.
From a Waterford perspective, the wides are the killer. They remind me of a 3 point shooting NBA team. If the radar is working, they will be a very dangerous team. But it's a low percentage shot a lot of the time, and when you have 1 poor cratur inside on his own, it's a tough shift for him.But credit to the Deise, they work like dogs and are as honest as the day is long. In De Burca and Barron they have a couple of gems, and Austin Gleeson probably falls into that category if you could get him on more ball.
Tipperary, credit to them, worked very hard as well. They had their usual period where they couldn't buy a break or a clean win of ball in the forwards, which was compounded by the aimless, confused passing, but they did work hard to hassle the Waterford backs coming out. O'MEara, Bonner, Callanan, BRendan Maher, Bubble and Forde all blocked, hooked and harried more than I've seen them in a long time.
By the way, I walked out onto the pitch afterwards, and it was simply fantastic. The Groundsmen in Thurles do some job. They finished at 3.30am on Sunday morning after the 3 games there on Saturday evening, and were back again at 5.30am to prepare the pitch for the games yesterday. 5 games in 2 days, and it was still like a carpet afterwards.
There were only 2 goals scored in 3 championship matches last weekend. It's been a while since there was a Munster final without a goal so it won't go down as a great final by any means. Waterford were well in it up to last 10 minutes or so and Tipp only got more than a goal ahead late on. James Owens didn't do Waterford any favours in first half I felt as he let a lot of holding and spare arm tackling go with 2 fouls both on Jake Dillon I think in the space of a few minutes not being given which annoyed the Waterford crowd. Tipp overall had better forwards which was main difference and Waterford also presented them with 2 points from short clearances by Stephen O'Keeffe in 2nd half and hit some bad wides.
Quote from: waterfordlad on July 14, 2015, 03:56:59 PM
There were only 2 goals scored in 3 championship matches last weekend. It's been a while since there was a Munster final without a goal
A whole two years in fact! Think someone tweeted it was the fourth one ever or something like that.
;D Oh yeah Limerick Cork in 2013 was goalless. I forgot about that earlier but it is a rare occurrence in a Munster final as you say.