Preparations for the new inter county season will begin in earnest tonight when the 2014 provincial championship draws will be screened live on RTE2 from 7pm.
The draws will be take place in Croke Park for the football championships in Munster, Leinster, Connacht and Ulster, as well as for the Leinster and Munster hurling championships.
We'll do well just to even enter a team next yr in all competitions with the state we are in..
I reckon Tyrone will meet Monaghan in the first round.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on October 03, 2013, 01:57:37 PM
We'll do well just to even enter a team next yr in all competitions with the state we are in..
I hope you're automatically entered!!!!!!!
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 03, 2013, 02:00:55 PM
I reckon Tyrone will meet Monaghan in the first round.
Hopefully we'll get our customary home draw! :P
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2013, 03:06:53 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 03, 2013, 02:00:55 PM
I reckon Tyrone will meet Monaghan in the first round.
Hopefully we'll get our customary home draw! :P
aye ye feckers! though we cant say much after last years 4 matches on the trot at home. Hoping for Tymoan at Celtic Pk :)
Tyrone to get beat out of Celtic Park by the young Derry guns :)
I reckon Cork & Kerry will both get handy draws.
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 03, 2013, 03:48:37 PM
I reckon Cork & Kerry will both get handy draws.
Cynicism from a Tyrone man? ::)
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on October 03, 2013, 01:57:37 PM
We'll do well just to even enter a team next yr in all competitions with the state we are in..
Time for the long-awaited Ros-Sligo Connacht championship rematch. Warm-up match in Marky Parky in the spring.
Doesn't really matter who we get, we're way off the pace. Might win a game or two with a handy draw in the qualifiers.
Hopefully the hurlers can come out of the Leinster round robin and get a run out against one of the "Big Five", though we'd need to improve substantially on this year's performance. Might be able to give Wexford or Offaly a bit of a game until the last 15mins.
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 03, 2013, 03:48:37 PM
I reckon Cork & Kerry will both get handy draws.
Who knows, they might even get byes into the next round. Oh wait, they have already got that.
Good luck to all counties. May each get what they deserve in terms of both opposition and home advantage.
Looks like a Dublin v Kilkenny Leinster hurling final.
Also looks like a Galway v Mayo Connacht football final.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on October 03, 2013, 05:25:57 PM
Good luck to all counties. May each get what they deserve in terms of both opposition and home advantage.
Well Down got what they deserved.
And Armagh get an opportunity for revenge against Cavan.
Good draw for Donegal.
Armagh v Cavan again! looks like Tyrone v Donegal Ulster final.
Ros-Mayo at the Hyde with a visit from Leitrim as a warm-up. We should do better at home than we did at McHale this year.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2013, 07:33:06 PM
looks like Tyrone v Donegal Ulster final.
A high scoring, free flowing game, with both sets of forwards on top. Tyrone to shade it on a scoreline of 1-23 to 2-18.
Easy.
Wicklow v Laois winners to meet Dublin
Longford v Offaly winners to meet Wexford
Westmeath v Louth, Groundhog day, winners to meet Kildare
Carlow v Meath
Quote from: All of a Sludden on October 03, 2013, 07:40:38 PM
Wicklow v Laois winners to meet Dublin
Longford v Offaly winners to meet Wexford
Westmeath v Louth, Groundhog day, winners to meet Kildare
Carlow v Meath
Jackeen f**kers should be made come to Portlaoise.(After we hammer Wickla)
Anytime, anywhere LL 8)
Whats this A and B thing about then?
what is the UFC draw i missed it
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on October 03, 2013, 07:48:45 PM
what is the UFC draw i missed it
Can somebody also post draw for connaught
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on October 03, 2013, 07:48:45 PM
what is the UFC draw i missed it
All the draws here http://t.co/1TiDP0bNWS
down get another easy draw. we basically have a bye straight through to the ulster final. roll on clones next july. 8)
some joke tyrone could potentially beat down,monaghan,armagh,and donegal to win ulster kerry or cork 1 game to win munster crazy system
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 03, 2013, 08:07:57 PM
down get another easy draw. we basically have a bye straight through to the ulster final. roll on clones next july. 8)
handy draw all right, thank God we don't have to negotiate that tricky path Kerry have to the final.
Quote from: skeog on October 03, 2013, 08:21:27 PM
some joke tyrone could potentially beat down,monaghan,armagh,and donegal to win ulster kerry or cork 1 game to win munster crazy system
a crazy system that seriously needs looked at.
They wanted revenue from a Cork - Kerry final by seeding them. The structure of the it is a mess anyway. 12 Counties in Leinster, 6 in Munster 9 in Ulster and Connacht with 5 plus New York and London.
Should experiment some time, with 8 Counties in each province along with New York and London. Make it fair if nothing else.
Bring it on (again)!
Should we get over Offaly we have to meet Wexford again AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH !!!!!!! .We could both do wiyj avoiding each other for a while . Minors drew the Dub's in a David v Goliath clash . U-21's got Westmeath , Don't know where that will be with the home and away agreement between counties
We'll try and spare you that, but can't promise anything.
Quote from: laoislad on October 03, 2013, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on October 03, 2013, 07:40:38 PM
Wicklow v Laois winners to meet Dublin
Longford v Offaly winners to meet Wexford
Westmeath v Louth, Groundhog day, winners to meet Kildare
Carlow v Meath
Jackeen f**kers should be made come to Portlaoise.(After we hammer Wickla)
i really hope the Leinster council fix this game for portlaoise
2014 Ulster Championship
Preliminary Round:
Tyrone v Down
Quarter-Finals:
Tyrone/Down v Monaghan
Armagh v Cavan
Derry v Donegal
Fermanagh v Antrim
Semi-Finals:
Tyrone/Down/Monaghan v Armagh/Cavan
Derry/Donegal v Fermanagh/Antrim
Easier half of the draw, on paper, for us. However, Derry owe us one, and will not be easily beaten in Celtic Park. And should Rory Gallagher take over of otherwise get involved with Fermanagh, you can't get more inside knowledge than that, in the event we end up meeting them.
Hopefully it will all end with us getting a chance to make amends against Monaghan in the final!
Tyrone probably overall favourites, again!
I hope you Armagh lads are looking forward to another hosing,this time in your home ground. ;)
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 03, 2013, 09:46:52 PM
I hope you Armagh lads are looking forward to another hosing,this time in your home ground. ;)
You Cavan men are starting to sound like Tyrone men.
Last time I remember Longford playing Offaly was 1997 I think and we got a hiding in Tullamore.....might get home advantage this time around but prize of playing Wexford yet again is hardly that enticing! Leinster just another cake walk for the Dubs it would seem unfortunately
Quote from: BennyCake on October 03, 2013, 09:50:18 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 03, 2013, 09:46:52 PM
I hope you Armagh lads are looking forward to another hosing,this time in your home ground. ;)
You Cavan men are starting to sound like Tyrone men.
Jesus Benny i was only having the craic, there is no need for such an offensive reply like that.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 03, 2013, 09:53:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 03, 2013, 09:50:18 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 03, 2013, 09:46:52 PM
I hope you Armagh lads are looking forward to another hosing,this time in your home ground. ;)
You Cavan men are starting to sound like Tyrone men.
Jesus Benny i was only having the craic, there is no need for such an offensive reply like that.
Ha.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 03, 2013, 09:53:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 03, 2013, 09:50:18 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 03, 2013, 09:46:52 PM
I hope you Armagh lads are looking forward to another hosing,this time in your home ground. ;)
You Cavan men are starting to sound like Tyrone men.
Jesus Benny i was only having the craic, there is no need for such an offensive reply like that.
I wasn't being offensive. Anyway, Cavan men could never be as bad as Tyrone men ;)
This is the ninth consecutive year that Down have been drawn away from home in the preliminary/first round of the USC, which is verging on the astonishing. However, previously, when we actually came out of the hat first in 04, 03 and 01, we were instructed to play all three games at Casement Park. The last time our first match in the USC was staged at home was in 1999, against Antrim. Perhaps we are due a little luck.
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
I'll be sure to tell the Donegal lads in Sligo to be on the watch-out for the Saffrons.
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2013, 10:29:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
I'll be sure to tell the Donegal lads in Sligo to be on the watch-out for the Saffrons.
We beat them not so long ago and got to an Ulster final before going down to a very good Tyrone team and ran Kerry very close in the qualifiers. The ability is there just need a committed bunch of players. I think we did as well as yous last year ;D
when u look at Munster and ulster football draws it really shows how unfair the all Ireland is. i wonder how Kerry would fair every year if they were in ulster. seriously time for an open draw
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 08:51:42 PM
Should experiment some time, with 8 Counties in each province
They wouldn't be the provinces then.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:32:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2013, 10:29:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
I'll be sure to tell the Donegal lads in Sligo to be on the watch-out for the Saffrons.
We beat them not so long ago and got to an Ulster final before going down to a very good Tyrone team and ran Kerry very close in the qualifiers. The ability is there just need a committed bunch of players. I think we did as well as yous last year ;D
Yeah and the Donegal team we beat that year in Ballybofey was not that different from the team that went on to win Sam,Jim was the difference
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2013, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 08:51:42 PM
Should experiment some time, with 8 Counties in each province
They wouldn't be the provinces then.
Obviously it wouldn't, as its an experiment. A Level playing field.
Quote from: snoopdog on October 03, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
i wonder how Kerry would fair every year if they were in ulster.
Cavan would only have won about 7 Ulster titles ;D
Another crack at London, this time on our turf.
Quote from: snoopdog on October 03, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
when u look at Munster and ulster football draws it really shows how unfair the all Ireland is. i wonder how Kerry would fair every year if they were in ulster. seriously time for an open draw
Nah. If was a good idea it would have been introduced years ago.
The reality is attendances would be as bad as we get now for qualifiers. What buzz would ye get for say Down v Kerry in Croke Park in May? Waste of time.
The current system might not be great but at least ye get games with a bit of local bite and usually the best 8 teams are still standing when the real stuff starts in August. Ok, Ulster is especially competitive but usually the form team gets through and it doesn t seem to do them any harm when they emerge from the bear pit. At least they know they ve a serious team going into the serious stuff.
Quotetime I remember Longford playing Offaly was 1997 I think and we got a hiding in Tullamore.....might get home advantage this time around but prize of playing Wexford yet again is hardly that enticing! Leinster just another cake walk for the Dubs it would seem unfortunately
If I recalls Offaly 5-13 Longford 0-09
I didn't go to that one. Thankfully. Offaly were on fire that year under Lyons.
Wouldn't have to do an open draw just adjust a few provinces which would make sense Geographically. And have an even number.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2013, 11:03:29 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on October 03, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
when u look at Munster and ulster football draws it really shows how unfair the all Ireland is. i wonder how Kerry would fair every year if they were in ulster. seriously time for an open draw
Nah. If was a good idea it would have been introduced years ago.
The reality is attendances would be as bad as we get now for qualifiers. What buzz would ye get for say Down v Kerry in Croke Park in May? Waste of time.
The current system might not be great but at least ye get games with a bit of local bite and usually the best 8 teams are still standing when the real stuff starts in August. Ok, Ulster is especially competitive but usually the form team gets through and it doesn t seem to do them any harm when they emerge from the bear pit. At least they know they ve a serious team going into the serious stuff.
Agreee totally with ya
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 03, 2013, 11:05:12 PM
Quotetime I remember Longford playing Offaly was 1997 I think and we got a hiding in Tullamore.....might get home advantage this time around but prize of playing Wexford yet again is hardly that enticing! Leinster just another cake walk for the Dubs it would seem unfortunately
If I recalls Offaly 5-13 Longford 0-09
I didn't go to that one. Thankfully. Offaly were on fire that year under Lyons.
Yeah and they took a bit of a slapping in the AI semi. One of our better AI semis and we did the now familiar September splits. Of all of the magnificent 7 failures that is the one that still fucks my mind up the most - even more so than a couple of weeks ago.
A showdown with Kildare on the cards so.
We'll make bits of them.
Same o' same o', in Ulster. The cynicism overspill, is wearing me out.
I'd prefer Down (usually a clean customer) get through the mud and mire to meet Monaghan in the semis.
Otherwise it will be a satisfying date of retribution with the team from the dungeons of Hell and they have a pretty price to pay.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Spot on MR2. First up it's Fermanagh, well they're shite too. After that Donegal/Derry. I'd prefer Donegal as we've a win agin them in recent memory (in Bealach Feidh too!) whereas I can only remember a draw agin Derry in 2000. So the form book says we've a better chance against the Tir Chonaill men. Then it's the final against whoever comes out of the weak side of the draw. Hopefully Cavan can fulfil their potential as we've a daycent record against them recently. I'd go for Antrim v Cavan (the traditional Ulster Final). We really should be seeded.
there's potentially more counties with a chance of winning ulster than the other 3 provinces put together
Ulster is some craic. :)
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
Wouldn't have to do an open draw just adjust a few provinces which would make sense Geographically. And have an even number.
Would ye ever fcek off to Conaught leave the 8 of us alone.
Quote from: The Insider on October 03, 2013, 09:11:12 PM
Should we get over Offaly we have to meet Wexford again AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH !!!!!!! .We could both do wiyj avoiding each other for a while . Minors drew the Dub's in a David v Goliath clash . U-21's got Westmeath , Don't know where that will be with the home and away agreement between counties
Last U21 match was in Navan but that was a Leinster semi final. Time before that was 2005, think it was in Longford.
Alright draw for the seniors as well. A lot will depend on how we go in the league.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 04, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
Wouldn't have to do an open draw just adjust a few provinces which would make sense Geographically. And have an even number.
Would ye ever fcek off to Conaught leave the 8 of us alone.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 04, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
Wouldn't have to do an open draw just adjust a few provinces which would make sense Geographically. And have an even number.
Would ye ever fcek off to Conaught leave the 8 of us alone.
At least it spell it right, Connacht. Ah nah we will be hanging around.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
Wouldn't have to do an open draw just adjust a few provinces which would make sense Geographically. And have an even number.
Then they would be regions not provinces. Or do you envisage a Westmeath v Donegal "Connacht"(sic) Final someday?
I'm sure Carlow and Kilkenny would "love to join " the new Southern Region and still Kerry and Cork would walk to the last 8/12.
Would the sticks crowd then have different regions?
Ráiméis of the highest order as is the nonsense of an "open draw" with no Provincials.
Anyway aren't the Qualifiers a semi open nationwide draw?
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 04, 2013, 10:16:07 AM
Quote from: The Insider on October 03, 2013, 09:11:12 PM
Should we get over Offaly we have to meet Wexford again AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH !!!!!!! .We could both do wiyj avoiding each other for a while . Minors drew the Dub's in a David v Goliath clash . U-21's got Westmeath , Don't know where that will be with the home and away agreement between counties
Last U21 match was in Navan but that was a Leinster semi final. Time before that was 2005, think it was in Longford.
Alright draw for the seniors as well. A lot will depend on how we go in the league.
2005 game was in Mullingar. Longford won after extra time.
If you want 4 groups of 8 and the provincial championships as well, there is one solution.
You could have qualifying rounds to get into the Ulster and Leinster championships with losers playing in Munster and Connacht.
So Down and Tyrone would compete to see who plays in the last 8 of Ulster and losers would play in Connacht. Depending on draw it could be any team in Ulster competing in Connacht on a given year.
As the most northern in Leinster the losers of Westmeath v Louth would also play in Connacht.
The losers of Wicklow v Laois and Longford v Offaly would play in Munster.
This would leave 4 groups of 8 in each province and each team has a chance of winning their home provincial championships as well.
The new draws for Connacht and Munster next year would be.
London v Galway
Sligo v Down/Tyrone
Mayo v Westmeath/Louth
Roscommon v Leitrim
Cork v Wicklow/Laois
Tipperary v Limerick
Kerry v Longford/Offaly
Clare v Waterford
New York can play the bottom team from Div 4 in a qualifier and take their place if they win.
Quote from: AQMP on October 04, 2013, 08:54:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Spot on MR2. First up it's Fermanagh, well they're shite too. After that Donegal/Derry. I'd prefer Donegal as we've a win agin them in recent memory (in Bealach Feidh too!) whereas I can only remember a draw agin Derry in 2000. So the form book says we've a better chance against the Tir Chonaill men. Then it's the final against whoever comes out of the weak side of the draw. Hopefully Cavan can fulfil their potential as we've a daycent record against them recently. I'd go for Antrim v Cavan (the traditional Ulster Final). We really should be seeded.
You Antrim boys are some craic. Seems you missed the fact that McGuinnesses Donegal simply don't compare to that of John Joe Doherty when we couldn't buy a win home or away. The Antrim loss in Ballybofey was pretty much the low point of the past 30 odd years of Donegal football. What made it worse than losing to Ulsters minnows was the man that was in charge of ye. Even accepting the fact that we kicked 19 wides that day and went on to reach a Quarter final, it's still an unforgiveable blot on JJ Dohertys copybook. Couldn't see a repeat if you paid me to. Whoever wins Donegal v Derry appears in the Ulster final as underdogs to a team who deserves to win it given what they've been through on the other side of the draw.
Any comments on the method of making the Draws? The balls/cylinders looked like leftover Fuji-film holders from the 35mm era. But the real cracker move was the different coloured caps on them. I could clearly see black and purple colours, and I thought I saw some dark blue as well. Then throw in these multiple bowls so that there is usually only a relatively small number of "balls" to pick from at a time. Whether or not any of the Draws was fixed or not, they certainly made it easier than ever to do so. It should at least look fair even if it isn't.
At least we didn't draw Kildare again. But our hurlers did draw Kilkenny again. Give us a break! ???
Quote from: dlgael on October 04, 2013, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 04, 2013, 08:54:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Spot on MR2. First up it's Fermanagh, well they're shite too. After that Donegal/Derry. I'd prefer Donegal as we've a win agin them in recent memory (in Bealach Feidh too!) whereas I can only remember a draw agin Derry in 2000. So the form book says we've a better chance against the Tir Chonaill men. Then it's the final against whoever comes out of the weak side of the draw. Hopefully Cavan can fulfil their potential as we've a daycent record against them recently. I'd go for Antrim v Cavan (the traditional Ulster Final). We really should be seeded.
You Antrim boys are some craic. Seems you missed the fact that McGuinnesses Donegal simply don't compare to that of John Joe Doherty when we couldn't buy a win home or away. The Antrim loss in Ballybofey was pretty much the low point of the past 30 odd years of Donegal football. What made it worse than losing to Ulsters minnows was the man that was in charge of ye. Even accepting the fact that we kicked 19 wides that day and went on to reach a Quarter final, it's still an unforgiveable blot on JJ Dohertys copybook. Couldn't see a repeat if you paid me to. Whoever wins Donegal v Derry appears in the Ulster final as underdogs to a team who deserves to win it given what they've been through on the other side of the draw.
I think they may be taking the piss a little here. :D
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2013, 01:51:15 PM
Quote from: dlgael on October 04, 2013, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 04, 2013, 08:54:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Spot on MR2. First up it's Fermanagh, well they're shite too. After that Donegal/Derry. I'd prefer Donegal as we've a win agin them in recent memory (in Bealach Feidh too!) whereas I can only remember a draw agin Derry in 2000. So the form book says we've a better chance against the Tir Chonaill men. Then it's the final against whoever comes out of the weak side of the draw. Hopefully Cavan can fulfil their potential as we've a daycent record against them recently. I'd go for Antrim v Cavan (the traditional Ulster Final). We really should be seeded.
You Antrim boys are some craic. Seems you missed the fact that McGuinnesses Donegal simply don't compare to that of John Joe Doherty when we couldn't buy a win home or away. The Antrim loss in Ballybofey was pretty much the low point of the past 30 odd years of Donegal football. What made it worse than losing to Ulsters minnows was the man that was in charge of ye. Even accepting the fact that we kicked 19 wides that day and went on to reach a Quarter final, it's still an unforgiveable blot on JJ Dohertys copybook. Couldn't see a repeat if you paid me to. Whoever wins Donegal v Derry appears in the Ulster final as underdogs to a team who deserves to win it given what they've been through on the other side of the draw.
I think they may be taking the piss a little here. :D
Donegal perspective on the draw J70? Do you expect a battle in the bogside or something similar to the hiding you gave Derry a couple of years ago in Ballybofey!!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 04, 2013, 02:06:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2013, 01:51:15 PM
Quote from: dlgael on October 04, 2013, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 04, 2013, 08:54:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Spot on MR2. First up it's Fermanagh, well they're shite too. After that Donegal/Derry. I'd prefer Donegal as we've a win agin them in recent memory (in Bealach Feidh too!) whereas I can only remember a draw agin Derry in 2000. So the form book says we've a better chance against the Tir Chonaill men. Then it's the final against whoever comes out of the weak side of the draw. Hopefully Cavan can fulfil their potential as we've a daycent record against them recently. I'd go for Antrim v Cavan (the traditional Ulster Final). We really should be seeded.
You Antrim boys are some craic. Seems you missed the fact that McGuinnesses Donegal simply don't compare to that of John Joe Doherty when we couldn't buy a win home or away. The Antrim loss in Ballybofey was pretty much the low point of the past 30 odd years of Donegal football. What made it worse than losing to Ulsters minnows was the man that was in charge of ye. Even accepting the fact that we kicked 19 wides that day and went on to reach a Quarter final, it's still an unforgiveable blot on JJ Dohertys copybook. Couldn't see a repeat if you paid me to. Whoever wins Donegal v Derry appears in the Ulster final as underdogs to a team who deserves to win it given what they've been through on the other side of the draw.
I think they may be taking the piss a little here. :D
Donegal perspective on the draw J70? Do you expect a battle in the bogside or something similar to the hiding you gave Derry a couple of years ago in Ballybofey!!
I'm telling you what boys, this could be a clinker. How do Donegal react after MayoGate? Hunger there for another rattle? Cant see any retirements. Derry, how are we progessing under Brian and the Paddy posse? Cruciate's a plenty? 1 more year for Paddy B? Good cover in midfield? Big big test for both teams on the easier side of the draw. In Celtic Pk of all places too, who'd have thunk it?!
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on October 04, 2013, 11:52:55 AM
If you want 4 groups of 8 and the provincial championships as well, there is one solution.
You could have qualifying rounds to get into the Ulster and Leinster championships with losers playing in Munster and Connacht.
So Down and Tyrone would compete to see who plays in the last 8 of Ulster and losers would play in Connacht. Depending on draw it could be any team in Ulster competing in Connacht on a given year.
As the most northern in Leinster the losers of Westmeath v Louth would also play in Connacht.
The losers of Wicklow v Laois and Longford v Offaly would play in Munster.
This would leave 4 groups of 8 in each province and each team has a chance of winning their home provincial championships as well.
I thought you were. serious for a minute but now I see clearly this is just a pisstake.
Good joke ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2013, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 03, 2013, 11:05:12 PM
Quotetime I remember Longford playing Offaly was 1997 I think and we got a hiding in Tullamore.....might get home advantage this time around but prize of playing Wexford yet again is hardly that enticing! Leinster just another cake walk for the Dubs it would seem unfortunately
If I recalls Offaly 5-13 Longford 0-09
I didn't go to that one. Thankfully. Offaly were on fire that year under Lyons.
Yeah and they took a bit of a slapping in the AI semi. One of our better AI semis and we did the now familiar September splits. Of all of the magnificent 7 failures that is the one that still f**ks my mind up the most - even more so than a couple of weeks ago.
I was only 10 at the time moy, but my dad reckons the same.
That was the one where a mediocre Kerry team, inspired by Maurice Fitz, won it, despite Maurice accidentaly breaking Billy O'shea's leg. What was the name of the lad that was left on Maurice all day, holmes was it? He got an awful roasting..
If ye had let us beat ye that year, I reckon we could have taken Kerry because Cathal Daly would have followed Maurice everywhere.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 04, 2013, 02:06:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2013, 01:51:15 PM
Quote from: dlgael on October 04, 2013, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 04, 2013, 08:54:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Spot on MR2. First up it's Fermanagh, well they're shite too. After that Donegal/Derry. I'd prefer Donegal as we've a win agin them in recent memory (in Bealach Feidh too!) whereas I can only remember a draw agin Derry in 2000. So the form book says we've a better chance against the Tir Chonaill men. Then it's the final against whoever comes out of the weak side of the draw. Hopefully Cavan can fulfil their potential as we've a daycent record against them recently. I'd go for Antrim v Cavan (the traditional Ulster Final). We really should be seeded.
You Antrim boys are some craic. Seems you missed the fact that McGuinnesses Donegal simply don't compare to that of John Joe Doherty when we couldn't buy a win home or away. The Antrim loss in Ballybofey was pretty much the low point of the past 30 odd years of Donegal football. What made it worse than losing to Ulsters minnows was the man that was in charge of ye. Even accepting the fact that we kicked 19 wides that day and went on to reach a Quarter final, it's still an unforgiveable blot on JJ Dohertys copybook. Couldn't see a repeat if you paid me to. Whoever wins Donegal v Derry appears in the Ulster final as underdogs to a team who deserves to win it given what they've been through on the other side of the draw.
I think they may be taking the piss a little here. :D
Donegal perspective on the draw J70? Do you expect a battle in the bogside or something similar to the hiding you gave Derry a couple of years ago in Ballybofey!!
We've no reason (or right) to expect a repeat of the 2012 game. After this season, Donegal have a lot to prove, and with the changes in the backroom, who knows what to expect. Is McGuinness the tactical genius who (the implosion post-Tyrone this year excepted) always gets his changes and moves during games right, or did Rory Gallagher contribute a lot to that particular aspect of our recent success? And what of Derry? They certainly can't be any worse than they were that day! Presumably they'll be much better. We'll see where we stand after the league. McBrearty will be a year older, Ryan McHugh will presumably be weaved into the team as well. Ryan Bradley has emigrated, but (IMO) a superior replacement, Ciaran Bonner, has rejoined the panel (although I'm skeptical of this - he couldn't consistently meet Brian McIvor and John Joe Doherty's disciplinary requirements - can he provide the dedication McGuinness demands?). Bonner is big, a good score taker and ideal for the fast-breaking, running game McGuinness favours, so hopefully he'll stay and still be up to intercounty standard.
Quote from: J OGorman on October 04, 2013, 02:13:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 04, 2013, 02:06:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2013, 01:51:15 PM
Quote from: dlgael on October 04, 2013, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 04, 2013, 08:54:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Spot on MR2. First up it's Fermanagh, well they're shite too. After that Donegal/Derry. I'd prefer Donegal as we've a win agin them in recent memory (in Bealach Feidh too!) whereas I can only remember a draw agin Derry in 2000. So the form book says we've a better chance against the Tir Chonaill men. Then it's the final against whoever comes out of the weak side of the draw. Hopefully Cavan can fulfil their potential as we've a daycent record against them recently. I'd go for Antrim v Cavan (the traditional Ulster Final). We really should be seeded.
You Antrim boys are some craic. Seems you missed the fact that McGuinnesses Donegal simply don't compare to that of John Joe Doherty when we couldn't buy a win home or away. The Antrim loss in Ballybofey was pretty much the low point of the past 30 odd years of Donegal football. What made it worse than losing to Ulsters minnows was the man that was in charge of ye. Even accepting the fact that we kicked 19 wides that day and went on to reach a Quarter final, it's still an unforgiveable blot on JJ Dohertys copybook. Couldn't see a repeat if you paid me to. Whoever wins Donegal v Derry appears in the Ulster final as underdogs to a team who deserves to win it given what they've been through on the other side of the draw.
I think they may be taking the piss a little here. :D
Donegal perspective on the draw J70? Do you expect a battle in the bogside or something similar to the hiding you gave Derry a couple of years ago in Ballybofey!!
I'm telling you what boys, this could be a clinker. How do Donegal react after MayoGate? Hunger there for another rattle? Cant see any retirements. Derry, how are we progessing under Brian and the Paddy posse? Cruciate's a plenty? 1 more year for Paddy B? Good cover in midfield? Big big test for both teams on the easier side of the draw. In Celtic Pk of all places too, who'd have thunk it?!
In terms of retirements, all I've heard so far is that Ryan Bradley has emigrated. Ross Wherity too. Christy Toye is recovered and back in the provisional panel, but he's 30 now. Ciaran Bonner too, but he hasn't played for the county in four or five years and always had disciplinary problems. If his head is right and he's still up to it, he'll improve the team, IMO with his running and score taking. Our half-forward line was poor this year.
Anthony Thompson's brother, Leon, was a promising corner forward for us in 06-07, but got a bad injury. Apparently he's in the new panel too, whether or not he makes it next year.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2013, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
Wouldn't have to do an open draw just adjust a few provinces which would make sense Geographically. And have an even number.
Then they would be regions not provinces. Or do you envisage a Westmeath v Donegal "Connacht"(sic) Final someday?
I'm sure Carlow and Kilkenny would "love to join " the new Southern Region and still Kerry and Cork would walk to the last 8/12.
Would the sticks crowd then have different regions?
Ráiméis of the highest order as is the nonsense of an "open draw" with no Provincials.
Anyway aren't the Qualifiers a semi open nationwide draw?
No since Kk don't have a football team, Wexford or Laois could be thrown in to make it competitive.
I'm talking about Football, there is a Hurling thread for the "stick crowd"
. A stick crowd play in Leinster Hurling and another from Ulster but that is a different scenario.
You should relax though. Its only a thought.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 04, 2013, 06:14:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2013, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
Wouldn't have to do an open draw just adjust a few provinces which would make sense Geographically. And have an even number.
Then they would be regions not provinces. Or do you envisage a Westmeath v Donegal "Connacht"(sic) Final someday?
I'm sure Carlow and Kilkenny would "love to join " the new Southern Region and still Kerry and Cork would walk to the last 8/12.
Would the sticks crowd then have different regions?
Ráiméis of the highest order as is the nonsense of an "open draw" with no Provincials.
Anyway aren't the Qualifiers a semi open nationwide draw?
No since Kk don't have a football team, Wexford or Laois could be thrown in to make it competitive.
I'm talking about Football, there is a Hurling thread for the "stick crowd"
. A stick crowd play in Leinster Hurling and another from Ulster but that is a different scenario.
You should relax though. Its only a thought.
We Connacht folks don't want any lesser breeds polluting our Championshipín.
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2013, 04:56:25 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on October 04, 2013, 02:13:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 04, 2013, 02:06:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2013, 01:51:15 PM
Quote from: dlgael on October 04, 2013, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 04, 2013, 08:54:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2013, 10:22:49 PM
Antrim could defo get to an Ulster final, no real big hitters on our side of the draw, that might bring in a good manager now with a host of players making their way back
Spot on MR2. First up it's Fermanagh, well they're shite too. After that Donegal/Derry. I'd prefer Donegal as we've a win agin them in recent memory (in Bealach Feidh too!) whereas I can only remember a draw agin Derry in 2000. So the form book says we've a better chance against the Tir Chonaill men. Then it's the final against whoever comes out of the weak side of the draw. Hopefully Cavan can fulfil their potential as we've a daycent record against them recently. I'd go for Antrim v Cavan (the traditional Ulster Final). We really should be seeded.
You Antrim boys are some craic. Seems you missed the fact that McGuinnesses Donegal simply don't compare to that of John Joe Doherty when we couldn't buy a win home or away. The Antrim loss in Ballybofey was pretty much the low point of the past 30 odd years of Donegal football. What made it worse than losing to Ulsters minnows was the man that was in charge of ye. Even accepting the fact that we kicked 19 wides that day and went on to reach a Quarter final, it's still an unforgiveable blot on JJ Dohertys copybook. Couldn't see a repeat if you paid me to. Whoever wins Donegal v Derry appears in the Ulster final as underdogs to a team who deserves to win it given what they've been through on the other side of the draw.
I think they may be taking the piss a little here. :D
Donegal perspective on the draw J70? Do you expect a battle in the bogside or something similar to the hiding you gave Derry a couple of years ago in Ballybofey!!
I'm telling you what boys, this could be a clinker. How do Donegal react after MayoGate? Hunger there for another rattle? Cant see any retirements. Derry, how are we progessing under Brian and the Paddy posse? Cruciate's a plenty? 1 more year for Paddy B? Good cover in midfield? Big big test for both teams on the easier side of the draw. In Celtic Pk of all places too, who'd have thunk it?!
In terms of retirements, all I've heard so far is that Ryan Bradley has emigrated. Ross Wherity too. Christy Toye is recovered and back in the provisional panel, but he's 30 now. Ciaran Bonner too, but he hasn't played for the county in four or five years and always had disciplinary problems. If his head is right and he's still up to it, he'll improve the team, IMO with his running and score taking. Our half-forward line was poor this year.
Anthony Thompson's brother, Leon, was a promising corner forward for us in 06-07, but got a bad injury. Apparently he's in the new panel too, whether or not he makes it next year.
Young Bradley off to Perth to meet up with the half of Buncrana?? That town is getting it extremely tight :-(
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2013, 07:09:31 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 04, 2013, 06:14:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2013, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 03, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
Wouldn't have to do an open draw just adjust a few provinces which would make sense Geographically. And have an even number.
Then they would be regions not provinces. Or do you envisage a Westmeath v Donegal "Connacht"(sic) Final someday?
I'm sure Carlow and Kilkenny would "love to join " the new Southern Region and still Kerry and Cork would walk to the last 8/12.
Would the sticks crowd then have different regions?
Ráiméis of the highest order as is the nonsense of an "open draw" with no Provincials.
Anyway aren't the Qualifiers a semi open nationwide draw?
No since Kk don't have a football team, Wexford or Laois could be thrown in to make it competitive.
I'm talking about Football, there is a Hurling thread for the "stick crowd"
. A stick crowd play in Leinster Hurling and another from Ulster but that is a different scenario.
You should relax though. Its only a thought.
We Connacht folks don't want any lesser breeds polluting our Championshipín.
We'd take the Larries and Offaly if we're pushed, though. Lovely lads. Want-to-be Connacht men of the highest order.
Not a great draw for Cavan but it could have been worse. I think our young lads with another year under our belt and lads like Gearoid McKiernan and Barry Reilly able to come back in that we can be a force again. Tough to beat Armagh away but I console myself by remembering that their players are no better than ours and their manager is a bit clueless. Looking forward to seeing the athletics ground, was never in it before.
The Athletics Ground is fine. In the last decade Armagh have a much better pitch and a much worse team.
For years us Ulster folk have been highlighting how much easier it has been for Kerry to win the AI over the years than for us Ulster men. When I heard the talk this year of how the Munster council have made the decision to keep the big two apart I thought this really was unfair not only to the other Munster teams but also to the other provinces as some have much tougher runs of matches which often leads to more injuries which can take their toll on players for later in the year.
2013 Kerry lost in AI Semi final
Kerry 2.19 v Tipp 0.08
Kerry 2.21 v Waterford 1.04
Kerry 1.16 v Cork 0.17 Munster Final
Kerry 0.15 v Cavan 0.09
Kerry 3.11 v Dublin 3.18
2013 Tyrone lost in AI Semi final
Tyrone 0.10 v Donegal 2.10 AI champs
Tyrone 1.27 v Offaly 0.08
Tyrone 0.12 v Roscommon 1.07
Tyrone 1.12 v Kildare 0.12
Tyrone 0.17 v Meath 2.09 Leinster finalists
Tyrone 0.14 v Monaghan 0.12 Ulster champs
2013 Donegal lost in AI quarter final
Donegal 2.10 v Tyrone 0.10
Donegal 0.12 v Down 0.09
Donegal 0.07 v Monaghan 0.13
Donegal 0.14 v Laois 0.08
Donegal 1.10 v Mayo 4.17
2014 Munster
Kerry v Clare/Waterford Semi
Kerry v Cork Final
Either a 4th round qualifier or a 1/4 final spot
2014 Possible Tyrone path to Ulster final
Tyrone v Down preliminary Round
Tyrone v Monaghan First round v current Ulster champions 2013
Tyrone v Armagh/Cavan
Tyrone v Donegal/Derry
Last year Kerry played 5 matches to get to the AI semifinal where they almost beat Dublin. With the exception of the annual Cork match they met 3 other teams outside the top 10. They met Cork in the Munster final knowing that even if they lose they'll be into the last round of qualifiers and so would only have to play one more game to get to the same point. With this in mind they can more or less cruise through the championship, choosing to focus their efforts on late July & August. They never have to worry about being primed for a big match at the end of May or June.
On the other hand last year Donegal, reigning AI champs had to be in peak condition for what was expected to be an epic battle v Tyrone in round 1 of Ulster. Having put in such effort to win that game they then looked a little troubled with the challenge Down gave them. Then they had their third tough match in a row against Monaghan in the final which was a bridge to far and they lost their chance for an Ulster 3 in a row. It's a huge challenge to win Ulster 3 years in a row and this is why it's very rarely been achieved. How often have Kerry or Cork won Munster 3 times in a row?
In Ulster its the accumulation of matches that takes its toll on you. Kerry could argue they would have beaten Monaghan in the Ulster final but would ye if ye had been to war with Tyrone & then Down before that match?
Tyrone only played one more game that Kerry last year going down the qualifier route to get to the AI semi but when you consider they played the reigning AI champs in the first round, then the Leinster finalists in round 4 of the qualifiers and then the Ulster champions in the quarterfinals most would agree it was again a much harder route than Kerry's quite facile win over Cork.
Most Kerry (and Cork) people will just pass this off as the luck of the draw or just the way it is but for any fair minded neutral, it really is an unfair playing field. Most of us do just put up with it but I think this decision now to allow Kerry & Cork to be kept apart in the Munster semis is just a step too far. It more or less guarantees them both a place in the Munster final and thus a much shorter passage into the AI series, even for the loser.
Next year either Tyrone or Down will go out at the preliminary round in Ulster and then have to play 4 rounds of qualifiers to get to the AI quarters. Cork or Kerry will have to play 2 or else 3 games to get to the same stage. How can this be a fair competition?
Should Ulster choose their best two teams every few years and seed them the same way to allow them to have a better chance of winning the AI?
Would they be allowed to do this?
Would anyone know what was Kerry's hardest run of games where they got to an AI final?
Wasn't it 2005 that Tyrone played 9 games and beat the Ulster, Leinster, Munster and AI champions all in the one year. We were lucky to avoid Mayo that year oh wait it was Galway in 05.
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 07, 2013, 03:50:40 PM
For years us Ulster folk have been highlighting how much easier it has been for Kerry to win the AI over the years than for us Ulster men. When I heard the talk this year of how the Munster council have made the decision to keep the big two apart I thought this really was unfair not only to the other Munster teams but also to the other provinces as some have much tougher runs of matches which often leads to more injuries which can take their toll on players for later in the year.
<SNIP>
Last year Kerry played 5 matches to get to the AI semifinal where they almost beat Dublin. With the exception of the annual Cork match they met 3 other teams outside the top 10. They met Cork in the Munster final knowing that even if they lose they'll be into the last round of qualifiers and so would only have to play one more game to get to the same point. With this in mind they can more or less cruise through the championship, choosing to focus their efforts on late July & August. They never have to worry about being primed for a big match at the end of May or June.
On the other hand last year Donegal, reigning AI champs had to be in peak condition for what was expected to be an epic battle v Tyrone in round 1 of Ulster. Having put in such effort to win that game they then looked a little troubled with the challenge Down gave them. Then they had their third tough match in a row against Monaghan in the final which was a bridge to far and they lost their chance for an Ulster 3 in a row. It's a huge challenge to win Ulster 3 years in a row and this is why it's very rarely been achieved. How often have Kerry or Cork won Munster 3 times in a row?
In Ulster its the accumulation of matches that takes its toll on you. Kerry could argue they would have beaten Monaghan in the Ulster final but would ye if ye had been to war with Tyrone & then Down before that match?
Tyrone only played one more game that Kerry last year going down the qualifier route to get to the AI semi but when you consider they played the reigning AI champs in the first round, then the Leinster finalists in round 4 of the qualifiers and then the Ulster champions in the quarterfinals most would agree it was again a much harder route than Kerry's quite facile win over Cork.
Most Kerry (and Cork) people will just pass this off as the luck of the draw or just the way it is but for any fair minded neutral, it really is an unfair playing field. Most of us do just put up with it but I think this decision now to allow Kerry & Cork to be kept apart in the Munster semis is just a step too far. It more or less guarantees them both a place in the Munster final and thus a much shorter passage into the AI series, even for the loser.
Next year either Tyrone or Down will go out at the preliminary round in Ulster and then have to play 4 rounds of qualifiers to get to the AI quarters. Cork or Kerry will have to play 2 or else 3 games to get to the same stage. How can this be a fair competition?
Should Ulster choose their best two teams every few years and seed them the same way to allow them to have a better chance of winning the AI?
Would they be allowed to do this?
Would anyone know what was Kerry's hardest run of games where they got to an AI final?
Wasn't it 2005 that Tyrone played 9 games and beat the Ulster, Leinster, Munster and AI champions all in the one year. We were lucky to avoid Mayo that year oh wait it was Galway in 05.
Ok, so if Kerry were in Ulster they might have had a few more trips through the qualifiers, but Kerry have a 100% record in the qualifiers anyway.
Kerry's biggest trek through the qualifiers was in '09 when they won the All-Ireland.
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 07, 2013, 03:50:40 PM
Next year either Tyrone or Down will go out at the preliminary round in Ulster and then have to play 4 rounds of qualifiers to get to the AI quarters. Cork or Kerry will have to play 2 or else 3 games to get to the same stage. How can this be a fair competition?
Should Ulster choose their best two teams every few years and seed them the same way to allow them to have a better chance of winning the AI?
Would they be allowed to do this?
I honestly don't believe the stage you enter the qualifiers matters a jot. Winning games helps to build momentum. Luck of the draw comes into it of course, no matter what stage you enter. The earlier you enter the better the chance of a handy draw.
Kerry and Cork being seeded in Munster doesn't help them one iota in my view. The stats would back this up. Cork and Kerry have met 12 times in Munster since the back door, 7 times in the final, 5 times in an earlier round.
The backdoor performance by the loser has been slightly better when losing in an early round, 3 times (out of 5) making the AI final and winning it twice.
The loser in a Munster final has got to the AI final 3 times (out of 7) winning it once.
In the 13 years of the backdoor system there have been 7 Cork-Kerry Munster finals, and only once has the winner gone on to win the All Ireland (Kerry in 2007).
So seeding absolutely doesnt help them win All Irelands (I'm not saying it hinders them either, just makes very little difference)
Ahhh stop Houndín.
Don't be taking away the Chips off the shoulders of the Ulster bies.
They'd never be able to handle having nothing to (Ty)moan about ::)
Hound do you think having home advantage makes much of a difference?
Dublin play virtually all their games in Croker and very rarely ever have to go the back door route so ye have virtually no experience of that yourselves.
Kerry played all their 3 Munster games in Killarney last year. The year before they beat Tipp in Semple but the lost to Cork in Páirc Uí Chaoimh.
Can you imagine if they had to travel to Ballybofey or Armagh in the first round? Do you think they'd put more effort into their fitness levels and intensity for such a game?
Do you think if they came away from such places with a win, would it be likely to have many injuries? Of course we can't say for sure but my point is that for years I've watched Dublin and Kerry waltz their way through their province without much of a fight from their opponents. I went this year with a Dublin mate to the Dublin v Westmeath match. Of course we expected a Dublin win but I said to my mate that at least in Ulster teams like Antrim or Fermanagh will at least come out with a bit of spirit and fight. They'll try to rough ye up a bit and usually cause ye some problems. The only Leinster team I've saw do this is usually Meath or maybe Wexford the odd time but as statistics show Dublin get to the final year after year and rarely seem to get any of their star players injured.
All I'm saying it that Leinster teams usually have to play 3 or 4 games to win Leinster. Ulster teams usually the same. Why should Kerry & Cork, who already have an unfair advantage as most of their opponents are more interested in hurling, get a bye in the first round and be kept apart in the semis?
If Kerry were to lose to Tipp in the first round then they would go into round 1 of the qualifiers and its a much longer route to the AI quarters from there with much more away matches. Suddenly playing teams like Longford, Derry or Down in their own back yard doesn't seem to easy.
Quite often round 4 qualifiers are played in Croker as a double header and so the advantage is handed back to the bigger fish.
A couple of different points there Fuzzman.
When Dublin played league games in Parnell Park, the Croke Park advantage was very small if any. Or at least any small advantage there was, was shared among all Leinster teams. ie when Kildare and Meath were as good as or better than us, they played in Croke Park as often as we did.
No question that since we've played our league games in Croke Park, its helped us in championship. In particular with bedding in new players. League is now very good preparation for championship. Playing in Parnell Park is as far removed from playing in Croker as you can get (albeit fans genuinely miss the great atmosphere that was almost always present in PP for league games).
I think Dublin should definitely play first round matches in provincial grounds in Leinster. I would place one caveat on it, it should be restricted to Portlaoise, Tullamore, Nowlan Pk, Dr Cullen Pk and Wexford Pk as I believe these are the grounds that can cater for 20k plus.
Dublin used always play a round or two outside Dublin through the 70s, 80s, 90s and (bar 1981 v Laois) we went nearly 3 decades unbeaten in Leinster grounds outside Croke Park (Kildare, Offaly, Laois, Meath, Westmeath all beat us in Croker at least once). Albeit logically, you would think the opposition would have a better chance outside Croke Pk.
Back to Kerry and Cork - they're in Munster and that's just a fact of life (unless you want to disband all provinces, which is a different debate). When seeded they've a handy route to QF or R4 of the qualifiers. But when they get there are they as prepared as they'd like to be? The games against the other Munster teams are almost completely useless in terms of preparation. Personally I think its better off for the rest of us that they're kept apart until the final, because they are more likely to be undercooked when the big games come along. But any advantage/disadvantage from seeding is very marginal.
Also from a neutral point of view when there is seeding we get a Munster final worth watching and we avoid having a complete walkover match in R4 of the qualifiers.
Quote from: Hound on October 08, 2013, 04:36:54 PM
I think Dublin should definitely play first round matches in provincial grounds in Leinster. I would place one caveat on it, it should be restricted to Portlaoise, Tullamore, Nowlan Pk, Dr Cullen Pk and Wexford Pk as I believe these are the grounds that can cater for 20k plus.
Dublin used always play a round or two outside Dublin through the 70s, 80s, 90s and (bar 1981 v Laois) we went nearly 3 decades unbeaten in Leinster grounds outside Croke Park (Kildare, Offaly, Laois, Meath, Westmeath all beat us in Croker at least once). Albeit logically, you would think the opposition would have a better chance outside Croke Pk.
I think you're missing my point Hound.
You are saying that it should be only in these grounds as they allow 20K+. The reason you're saying that I presume is that a good crowd would come down from Dublin to support their team and enjoy the day out.
My point is that this is what balances out the smaller team v the bigger county team. It's like a FA cup match with Spurs going to play a non league outfit with a small capacity. They make it a hostile atmosphere as not many of the away fans can make attend.
Tyrone went to Donegal last year and McGuinness knew that them holding on to home advantage was a major asset to their mental preparation. They had to pull out all the stops to get the ground ready. It's a brutal place to get in and out of and the talk months before the game was there wouldn't be enough tickets for those Tyrone fans that wanted to go. This belief was absorbed by a lot of fans who didn't even then ask for tickets and so it ended up that their was a huge Donegal crowd that were very hostile and out in force to support their glorious All Ireland winning team. 1-0 to McGuinness even before the game started.
All I'm saying is that in my eyes Dublin, Kerry & Cork don't usually have to worry about such problems. Often their hardest matches are actually away league games as I'd say ye will find next year as reigning AI champs.
It's one thing going to play Wicklow or Carlow away but if you had a first round game v Meath in Navan or Kildare in Newbridge would you be as confident?
Kerry rarely win in Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Yes Munster is the way it is but can you understand that for us in Ulster where more teams often play their first round games at home, then its not a fair playing field. It's dog eat dog and so by giving Kerry & Cork another game off helps them in their quest to peak for the late summer. It's one less game for Star not to get sent off or for Gooch not to get injured.
I wonder will we get another battle of Omagh next year?
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 09, 2013, 11:19:03 AM
I think you're missing my point Hound.
You are saying that it should be only in these grounds as they allow 20K+. The reason you're saying that I presume is that a good crowd would come down from Dublin to support their team and enjoy the day out.
My point is that this is what balances out the smaller team v the bigger county team. It's like a FA cup match with Spurs going to play a non league outfit with a small capacity. They make it a hostile atmosphere as not many of the away fans can make attend.
Tyrone went to Donegal last year and McGuinness knew that them holding on to home advantage was a major asset to their mental preparation. They had to pull out all the stops to get the ground ready. It's a brutal place to get in and out of and the talk months before the game was there wouldn't be enough tickets for those Tyrone fans that wanted to go. This belief was absorbed by a lot of fans who didn't even then ask for tickets and so it ended up that their was a huge Donegal crowd that were very hostile and out in force to support their glorious All Ireland winning team. 1-0 to McGuinness even before the game started.
All I'm saying is that in my eyes Dublin, Kerry & Cork don't usually have to worry about such problems. Often their hardest matches are actually away league games as I'd say ye will find next year as reigning AI champs.
It's one thing going to play Wicklow or Carlow away but if you had a first round game v Meath in Navan or Kildare in Newbridge would you be as confident?
Kerry rarely win in Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Yes Munster is the way it is but can you understand that for us in Ulster where more teams often play their first round games at home, then its not a fair playing field. It's dog eat dog and so by giving Kerry & Cork another game off helps them in their quest to peak for the late summer. It's one less game for Star not to get sent off or for Gooch not to get injured.
I wonder will we get another battle of Omagh next year?
All the points you make are fair and as a Dub I would have no problem playing Meath in Navan or Kildare in Newbridge. However if for example we played Kildare in Newbridge only 6000 people could attend the match rather than the 60,000 that would attend in Croke Park. Thats a huge drop in revenue. Leinster Championship attendance money is divided among
all Leinster Counties so therefore every Leinster County would suffer. For the above to happen these Leinster Counties would have to vote for it and its very hard to see that happening. This won't stop them moaning about Dublin having an unfair advantage but ultimately the decision to change the system is and always has been in their hands.