Has anyone been to see it? Is it worth visiting? Any thoughts about it?
(http://nintendookie.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/white-elephant.gif)
So cynical ziggy. A lot of people said the same thing about the Odyssey, did they not?
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:33:35 PM
So cynical ziggy. A lot of people said the same thing about the Odyssey, did they not?
I'm sure it didnt cost the guts of 100 million. Would be interested in the payback forecasts for this new place. Belfast could be under water by then!
It will keep the Unionists happy,big part of their culture ;)sinking
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 01, 2012, 08:38:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:33:35 PM
So cynical ziggy. A lot of people said the same thing about the Odyssey, did they not?
I'm sure it didnt cost the guts of 100 million. Would be interested in the payback forecasts for this new place. Belfast could be under water by then!
It cost £120m... and that was 12 years ago.
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 01, 2012, 08:38:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:33:35 PM
So cynical ziggy. A lot of people said the same thing about the Odyssey, did they not?
I'm sure it didnt cost the guts of 100 million. Would be interested in the payback forecasts for this new place. Belfast could be under water by then!
It cost £120m... and that was 12 years ago.
The difference, in my opinion, is that the Odyssey is set up for people to continually come back, pubs, restaurants, bowling, cinema not to mention the concerts. Will people keep coming back to the Titanic exhibition after ten years, after all the hoopla of the anniversary passes? How much public money was used to build the Odyssey, genuinely asking as I don't know.
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 01, 2012, 08:38:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:33:35 PM
So cynical ziggy. A lot of people said the same thing about the Odyssey, did they not?
I'm sure it didnt cost the guts of 100 million. Would be interested in the payback forecasts for this new place. Belfast could be under water by then!
It cost £120m... and that was 12 years ago.
Did it really? Crazy money for something less than spectacular. I'm sure they could have built it for half that.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 01, 2012, 09:22:30 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 01, 2012, 08:38:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:33:35 PM
So cynical ziggy. A lot of people said the same thing about the Odyssey, did they not?
I'm sure it didnt cost the guts of 100 million. Would be interested in the payback forecasts for this new place. Belfast could be under water by then!
It cost £120m... and that was 12 years ago.
Did it really? Crazy money for something less than spectacular. I'm sure they could have built it for half that.
It wasnt really, neither contractor involved made anything apart from the P.R. Its an expensive part of the country to work with the ground conditions.
not my cup of tea, i have always found the whole subject boring but to be fair it did look good on tv
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 01, 2012, 09:46:47 PM
not my cup of tea, i have always found the whole subject boring but to be fair it did look good on tv
Have you stumbled into the wrong thread sir?
Nothing like celebrating failure is there ::)
Do they know the ship sank?
Quote from: Minder on April 01, 2012, 09:13:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 01, 2012, 08:38:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 08:33:35 PM
So cynical ziggy. A lot of people said the same thing about the Odyssey, did they not?
I'm sure it didnt cost the guts of 100 million. Would be interested in the payback forecasts for this new place. Belfast could be under water by then!
It cost £120m... and that was 12 years ago.
The difference, in my opinion, is that the Odyssey is set up for people to continually come back, pubs, restaurants, bowling, cinema not to mention the concerts. Will people keep coming back to the Titanic exhibition after ten years, after all the hoopla of the anniversary passes? How much public money was used to build the Odyssey, genuinely asking as I don't know.
It's all set up for big conferences and banqueting as well. You can have weddings there too. As for visitors, apparently it will need 290,000 visitors /year to break even - and that's deemed realistic.
I'm not sure of the proportion of public v private funding for the Odyssey, but there was plenty of public money in there too. Titanic was funded £60m public and £17m private.
Apart from its business potential, I think it's a great piece of architecture and really adds to the city.
I believe the mooted full scale replica of the Titanic had lined up mostly private backing. Would have been some sight if they had gone ahead.
Such cynicism. Titanic wasn't the only ship built in Belfast. Shipbuilding is a big part of the city's industrial heritage. There wasn't much industry in the rest of Ireland at the time by comparison to the engineering and linen industry in Belfast; it was Ireland's only major industrial city while most other people in the country were gathering pig-feed, milking cattle, and living like bogtrotters. For better or worse it's worth educating visitors and tourists about that. What's Dublin's claim to fame? A f**king brewery. That about sums it up.
(http://store.stlyouth.org/sites/store.stlyouth.org/files/imagecache/product_full/stirring-it-up-sticker.jpg)
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 11:17:14 PM
It's all set up for big conferences and banqueting as well. You can have weddings there too. As for visitors, apparently it will need 290,000 visitors /year to break even - and that's deemed realistic.
I'm not sure of the proportion of public v private funding for the Odyssey, but there was plenty of public money in there too. Titanic was funded £60m public and £17m private.
Apart from its business potential, I think it's a great piece of architecture and really adds to the city.
Are you serious? A wedding in an industrial wasteful with the stench from a rotten lough in your nostrils? Rather you than me!
The whole Titanic thing is crap. Utter crap. Pursuing a confused business come tourist zone about three times the size of Canary Wharf which would take billions and many decades to complete. A total mess and that's before you get into the legacy of the shipyards and what they represented.
The odyssey is a pile of crap too. Multi-million pound facility for spides to party in on Saturday nights and for Canadians to earn money f*cking about on an ice-rink now and again. It's totally empty 90% of the time. It's all a North Down gold coast fantasy wonderland devoid of any reality. Chin chin everyone...
Quote from: sheamy on April 02, 2012, 09:23:44 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2012, 11:17:14 PM
It's all set up for big conferences and banqueting as well. You can have weddings there too. As for visitors, apparently it will need 290,000 visitors /year to break even - and that's deemed realistic.
I'm not sure of the proportion of public v private funding for the Odyssey, but there was plenty of public money in there too. Titanic was funded £60m public and £17m private.
Apart from its business potential, I think it's a great piece of architecture and really adds to the city.
Are you serious? A wedding in an industrial wasteful with the stench from a rotten lough in your nostrils? Rather you than me!
I know someone who has booked his wedding for the Paint Hall.
lol...the big aircraft hanger yoke used for film sets?! Is he an actor?
(Now that was actually a clever use of what's there in that area. For films I mean, not weddings :) )
Hmmm, maybe not then, he's quite posh. Must be the fancy banqueting rooms.
Unless I'm wrong...this is what I thought the Paint Room is
(http://northernirelandscreen.co.uk/DatabaseImages/new_7836091.jpg)
Wedding photos look well there Rois :) It could be the other big red brick place along the road a wee bit (dunno what you call it, H&W drawing office or something maybe). I think they were making that into a hotel or something. Looks like an asylum from the front.
Is it me or its a bit ironic that spent all this money celebrating a major disaster known around the world?? Next thing they will be naming airports after alcoholic wife beaters...... :P
got a wee tour of the place last week with a couple of Americans on their first trip to Belfast. I thought it was first class, the set up is phenomenal, the technology running the thing is better than I've ever seen, the 3D immersive stuff is unreal. The top floor is done as a banquet hall for functions and they have already more than 40 booked. The Americans raved about the place to everyone they met on London later in the week and we have already booked the room for a corporate function for our EU operation later this year.
As the DUP speaker at the Blueshirt Ard Fheis joked at the weekend "The Titanic as alright when it left Belfast" ;)
This is going to bring extra money to Northern Ireland. The visitiors are going to spend there money in other areas not just on the Titanic. Even if it makes a loss every year it is filling hotels in belfast which will result in helping our local buisness
Reminds me of the St Patrick's centre in Downpatrick although on a much bigger scale obviously. It's been a massive drain on the council in the past decade.
Springfield Monorail comes to mind.
Exterior looks grim (admittedly it probably is a highly unflattering photograph).
not sure you're looking at the right picture???
(http://images.theage.com.au/2012/04/02/3182307/Travel-Titanic-Belfast-6_20120402110236338408-600x400.jpg)
looks pretty good to me...
It looks like the bloody ice berg it hit!
Quote from: Canalman on April 02, 2012, 05:00:35 PM
Springfield Monorail comes to mind.
Exterior looks grim (admittedly it probably is a highly unflattering photograph).
The exterior looks great - brilliant design.
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2012, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: Canalman on April 02, 2012, 05:00:35 PM
Springfield Monorail comes to mind.
Exterior looks grim (admittedly it probably is a highly unflattering photograph).
The exterior looks great - brilliant design.
Would have been cheaper of theyd dashed the outside of it.
I have to laugh at free staters slagging off northern architecture. The tallest building in Dublin has a roof on it like a child's origami project and the national parliament building looks like a reform school.
Quote from: fingerbob on April 02, 2012, 04:43:29 PM
Reminds me of the St Patrick's centre in Downpatrick although on a much bigger scale obviously. It's been a massive drain on the council in the past decade.
Agree with you there fingerbob!! Half the problem there is the expensive tickets to get in and go round the place, even their student prices are dear. The good thing about the Titanic Exhibition is that it is in Belfast, probably gets 100 times the amount of tourists Downpatrick does! ;D
At least it's not Nama owned
in terms of money- it breaks even with 300,000 visitors a year, though they are on course for something north of twice that this year
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2012, 06:30:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2012, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: Canalman on April 02, 2012, 05:00:35 PM
Springfield Monorail comes to mind.
Exterior looks grim (admittedly it probably is a highly unflattering photograph).
The exterior looks great - brilliant design.
Would have been cheaper of theyd dashed the outside of it.
But it would have looked shit.
Quote from: heganboy on April 02, 2012, 09:11:13 PM
in terms of money- it breaks even with 300,000 visitors a year, though they are on course for something north of twice that this year
80,000 tickets were sold before it opened.
Quote from: heganboy on April 02, 2012, 09:11:13 PM
in terms of money- it breaks even with 300,000 visitors a year, though they are on course for something north of twice that this year
Does that take into account the capital build cost repayments, interest and running and maintenance costs ?.
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2012, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 02, 2012, 09:11:13 PM
in terms of money- it breaks even with 300,000 visitors a year, though they are on course for something north of twice that this year
80,000 tickets were sold before it opened.
Come back next year when the centenary is over.
If Kate Winslet doesnt have her tits out at it, I aint going to see it!
Quote from: HiMucker on April 03, 2012, 11:06:22 AM
If Kate Winslet doesnt have her tits out at it, I aint going to see it!
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59075000/jpg/_59075520_tb-march_016.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D
What or who is that supposed to be?
Quote from: haranguerer on April 03, 2012, 01:16:20 PM
What or who is that supposed to be?
It's supposed to symbolise Kate on the hull of the Titanic. That's right, the film, nothing real!
looks like it is called Titanica....Re-imaging Newtownards Road ;D ;D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17524955
It marks the completion of East Belfast Partnership's "Re-imaging Newtownards Road" project, to reflect the part workers in the area played in building the Titanic.
The "Titanica" sculpture at the Titanic Belfast building of a female figure is by the renowned Irish sculptor Rowan Gillespie.
From the front it takes on a cruciform expression. From the sides it aims to compliment the Titanic building.
I'd say the majority of people will think it's Kate Winslet with the baps out.
They are two small to be Kates. That sculpture will look like a bukake victim when the birds shit all over it!
Quote from: ziggysego on April 03, 2012, 01:25:50 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on April 03, 2012, 01:16:20 PM
What or who is that supposed to be?
It's supposed to symbolise Kate on the hull of the Titanic. That's right, the film, nothing real!
Holy f**k
Quote from: orangeman on April 02, 2012, 11:12:52 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 02, 2012, 09:11:13 PM
in terms of money- it breaks even with 300,000 visitors a year, though they are on course for something north of twice that this year
Does that take into account the capital build cost repayments, interest and running and maintenance costs ?.
What capital build cost repayments? It was funded mostly by public money. I'd imagine break-even on such a project is covering the operating costs now that it's up and running.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2012, 11:13:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2012, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 02, 2012, 09:11:13 PM
in terms of money- it breaks even with 300,000 visitors a year, though they are on course for something north of twice that this year
80,000 tickets were sold before it opened.
Come back next year when the centenary is over.
I wasn't suggesting it would do those numbers every year - I was referring to year 1 being substantially higher.
But if W5 can attract c.250,000 visitors per year and the Ulster Folk & Transport Museum c.170,000 then you'd have to imagine 300,000 is feasible for this attraction, given its profile and location.
Theres always a few miseries around. It may turn out to be a white elephant but it may be a success.
Most tourists that come to Belfast will see it. Where else would tourists go in Belfast, to see the murals? When you factor in school trips, tourists etc 300,000 is not a crazy figure.
By Matthew Holehouse
Wednesday April 04 2012
THE CITY of Belfast has "coarsened itself" by exploiting the sinking of the Titanic to draw in tourists, an academic has claimed.
The city is throwing a three week "festival" to mark the opening the Titanic Belfast museum and the centenary of the launch of the fated ocean liner.
William Neill, a professor of urban planning at Aberdeen University, said: "Belfast is unique in terms of the significance of the Titanic but the question must be raised as to whether that memory has been treated with enough respect.
"The city has lived with the shame of the sinking for many years. That has turned a corner and it is important that the role Belfast's great shipyard played in our maritime history is acknowledged.
"Whether what is now a mythic legacy should have been tied so closely to financial gain through selling 'infotainment' is more debateable."
Professor Neill is to address a conference on the phenomenon of 'disaster tourism' in Berlin. More than 1,500 people died when the RMS Titanic sank on April 15, 1912 after striking on iceberg
In Belfast, the dockside where the ship was built and launched has been redeveloped with apartments and shops and has been rebranded the 'Titanic Quarter'.
A £97m, six-storey museum, designed by US architect Eric Kuhne, has opened which allows visitors to "experience" life on board and the sinking of the ship.
MTV, the pop music channel, is to host a concert to mark the ship's launch. X Factor winner Olly Murs and rapper Sean Paul and hip-hop artist Rizzle Kicks will perform.
On Monday the city council served a 'Titanic kitchen' in the city's covered market, where passersby could sample meals from the first, second and third class menus. Other events planned include a 6 mile road race, a light show, a musical and a day of urban sports, fashion workshops and magic shows beneath the Harland & Woff shipyard cranes.
A memorial garden bearing the names of the victims will also be opened.
Professor Neill added: "To host an MTV pop music extravaganza on the slipway where Titanic was built, on the eve of the centenary, begs some questions of taste, respect and dignity no matter what the promotional hype."
He said the city had failed to renovate the "magnificent" drawing offices where the ship was designed.
"I am dismayed to see how my own home city has branded a Titanic Quarter where tacky souvenirs are plentiful but where one of the most important physical legacies of the Titanic story, the womb of the ship of imagination, has been side-lined and neglected."
A spokesman for Belfast City Council said: "Belfast has been totally respectful of the loss of 1,512 lives on the Titanic. Relatives of those who died have been supportive of what the city has done and we believe we have remembered the tragedy but also the achievement in building the ship in an appropriate manner."
- Matthew Holehouse
© Telegraph.co.uk
The whole 'Titanic' thing is at best what can only be described as questionable. In my opinion it's a dead duck.
The titanic and ship building strikes a particular resonance for the people of East Belfast whose ancestors worked there and that's understandable. However, it means precious little to anyone else in this part of the country.
To celebrate Titanic alone is to celebrate tragedy. It's crass and opportunistic, or coarse to use that professors term, even if the people who came up with it didn't mean it to be.
To celebrate a history of ship building is backward and narrow.
If they want to help tourism sort out the infrastructure instead of spending millions and millions on bullshit marketing and a £97 million building (nice as it is) on an industrial wasteland. When you have no product all the advertising in the world won't help you. e.g. trains that go west and not just east from Belfast.
Still, we always have Rizzle Kicks to fall back on...
'MTV, the pop music channel, is to host a concert to mark the ship's launch. X Factor winner Olly Murs and rapper Sean Paul and hip-hop artist Rizzle Kicks will perform'
(http://images.contactmusic.com/newsimages/rizzle_kicks_1309693.jpg)
Keep it real. Respect.
It also does not help when the local media and news stations in particular have been nothing more than tourist magazines for this venture, and refusing to ask any questions that might be seen as uncomfortable. I suppose they are doing the Executives bidding and don't want the Punt to shout at them again.
I know...it's frightening. Even Martin McGuinness has lost of the run of himself describing it as 'Belfast's Sydney Opera House'. Gimme a feckin break. It'll be full of niteclubs in 5 years after the toffs have lost interest, just like its uglier sister the Odyssey Arena.
Bland is good. Neutral is good. The prods love the shipbuilding and the taigs, well, they're not too offended, so it's a perfect balance. Just don't mention the Maze site whatever you do!
£97 million to celebrate the culture and heritage of East Belfast. Tyrone GAA on the other hand can't get £1-2million which was due for their Garvaghy project. Now there's a living, breathing culture that hasn't been sunk or wiped out by modernisation.
Can't see Rizzle Kicks selling out Kelly's Inn any time soon either...
Quote from: sheamy on April 04, 2012, 10:12:43 AM
I know...it's frightening. Even Martin McGuinness has lost of the run of himself describing it as 'Belfast's Sydney Opera House'. Gimme a feckin break. It'll be full of niteclubs in 5 years after the toffs have lost interest, just like its uglier sister the Odyssey Arena.
Bland is good. Neutral is good. The prods love the shipbuilding and the taigs, well, they're not too offended, so it's a perfect balance. Just don't mention the Maze site whatever you do!
£97 million to celebrate the culture and heritage of East Belfast. Tyrone GAA on the other hand can't get £1-2million which was due for their Garvaghy project. Now there's a living, breathing culture that hasn't been sunk or wiped out by modernisation.
Can't see Rizzle Kicks selling out Kelly's Inn any time soon either...
I'd have to agree with all of this.
Always amazes me how anyone can be so proud of a ship that sank on it's first trip out! Not exactly a great marketing strategy for a ship builder.
It annoys me too about how Harland & Wolf are portrayed. Fact is they were a bigoted company with a sectarian workforce and the employment of Catholics was a big no no for them. Yet they are always painted as a great company to have worked for and they brought so much to Belfast blah blah blah.
Companies like that were instrumental in a lot of the problems this country endured but it always seems to be glossed over by the media as to how they were so sectarian.
For this new museum, don't see what all the fuss is about. I wouldn't bother my rear going to it anyway....and even if I did go once, is it the sort of place you'd go to again? It'll be another white elephant if you ask me. It'll probably pull in a bit of tourism for a year or two then it'll fall into financial difficulty then it'll be bought over by some private company who'll turn it into a venue for concerts and the like.
They'll open a load of bars and be on the tv flat out showing all the under age drinking that goes on there.
Expect to see ship building in general and the Titanic in particular being introduced into curriculum for schools in the north. This would mean half the required numbers could be guaranteed from school trips.
As a couple of posters above have alluded to, the anti-Catholic sectarianism of H&W is one of only two things that most people associate with that company (the other being the Titanic). I can assume therefore that this practice is given equal coverage in the new flagship building, particularly since much of the worst excesses of sectarianism occurred in the same year Titanic sank.
Or maybe not.
People need to lighten up. It's great to see shipbuilding making a comeback in Belfast. The yoyo and Rubik's Cube took off in the 80s as did the Cabbage Patch Dolls. In the 90s it was Pokemons and the little dogs or cats you tried to keep alive on your little fob - Tamogatchi? Sumo wrestling used to be massive in the early 90s or late 80s and Channel 4 used to cover it every week.
I remember a sumo wrestler called The Salt Shaker. He was class and my mother and I used to foam at the mouth watching his trials and tribulations on the TV. He might have been called Touchingawaka or Limahl or something. Then you had the American football fad of the late 80s/early 90s and Channel 4 did that again. Now AMerican Football hardly exists like the Tamogatchis.
Give shipbuilding itself a break and a chance. My oldest Nephew is 22 and he says for Christmas he wants a ship building case set bought for his birthday and I'm his godfather so myself and his father have ordered prefabricated sections, entire multi-deck segments of the hull , pre-installed equipment, pipes, electrical cables, and any other components within the blocks, to minimize the effort needed to assemble or install components deep within the hull once it is welded together.
I have to concur with the posters who find the whole Titanic "brand" a bit unpalatable and I do agree with some of the sentiments expressed by William McNeill in the newspaper report. Nobody gave a feck about the Titanic until Kate Winslet swooned about a film set and I do feel that the fact that 1,512 people lost their lives is being sidelined in the "aren't we all having a great time" message.
However my main point (and apologies if I steal your thunder Evil Genuis) is about the Belfast shipyard. My father was neither a Prod nor from East Belfast yet he worked in the shipyard for almost twenty years from the early 1940s. There is a small pedantic distinction between "The Shipyard" and the main company there "Harland & Wolff". My father never worked for Harland & Wolff but rather for one of the many other smaller companies housed in the shipyard. True, almost all of these were sub-contractors to H&W and true, the vast majority of shipyard workers were employed by them.
The construction of the Titainc was begun in 1909 and in 1911 the construction was interrupted for repairs to be carried out to her sister ship, the Olympic. The result of these two major jobs was an increase in the workforce at the shipyard. Though shipbuilding had traditionally been seen to be the preserve of the Protestant population of East Belfast, the increased demand for skilled and unskilled workers attracted people from all over Ireland and could not be provided by East Belfast Prods alone. There have been various bits of research carried out to show that at this time a sizeable proportion of shipyard employees were Catholic. The "average" estimate would be around 12%-15%. It was really only in the early to mid 1920s, following the upheaval of 1916-1922 in Ireland that H&W became an almost exclusively Protestant company. But as me Da always pointed out many of the subbie companies in the shipyard were happy to employ Catholics as a lot of them were actually English and Scottish firms based in the Clyde, Liverpool or the NE of England.
I'm not defending the record of H&W and me Da was certainly no "West Brit" nor "Castle Catholic" and he would regale us with a couple of hair raising stories from his time there (usually after a couple of Power's, mind you) but at the time of the building of the Titanic maybe the needs of capitalism were more powerful than those of politics/culture.
Quote from: Olly on April 04, 2012, 11:26:28 AM
People need to lighten up. It's great to see shipbuilding making a comeback in Belfast. The yoyo and Rubik's Cube took off in the 80s as did the Cabbage Patch Dolls. In the 90s it was Pokemons and the little dogs or cats you tried to keep alive on your little fob - Tamogatchi? Sumo wrestling used to be massive in the early 90s or late 80s and Channel 4 used to cover it every week.
I remember a sumo wrestler called The Salt Shaker. He was class and my mother and I used to foam at the mouth watching his trials and tribulations on the TV. He might have been called Touchingawaka or Limahl or something. Then you had the American football fad of the late 80s/early 90s and Channel 4 did that again. Now AMerican Football hardly exists like the Tamogatchis.
Give shipbuilding itself a break and a chance. My oldest Nephew is 22 and he says for Christmas he wants a ship building case set bought for his birthday and I'm his godfather so myself and his father have ordered prefabricated sections, entire multi-deck segments of the hull , pre-installed equipment, pipes, electrical cables, and any other components within the blocks, to minimize the effort needed to assemble or install components deep within the hull once it is welded together.
Remember to use
iron rivets Olly,
Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 04, 2012, 11:07:45 AM
Expect to see ship building in general and the Titanic in particular being introduced into curriculum for schools in the north. This would mean half the required numbers could be guaranteed from school trips.
As a couple of posters above have alluded to, the anti-Catholic sectarianism of H&W is one of only two things that most people associate with that company (the other being the Titanic). I can assume therefore that this practice is given equal coverage in the new flagship building, particularly since much of the worst excesses of sectarianism occurred in the same year Titanic sank.
Or maybe not.
Is there an iceberg in there as well?
Quote from: johnneycool on April 04, 2012, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 04, 2012, 11:07:45 AM
Expect to see ship building in general and the Titanic in particular being introduced into curriculum for schools in the north. This would mean half the required numbers could be guaranteed from school trips.
As a couple of posters above have alluded to, the anti-Catholic sectarianism of H&W is one of only two things that most people associate with that company (the other being the Titanic). I can assume therefore that this practice is given equal coverage in the new flagship building, particularly since much of the worst excesses of sectarianism occurred in the same year Titanic sank.
Or maybe not.
Is there an iceberg in there as well?
I served my apprenticeship in Harland's, spent a further 12 years as a shipbuilder. fabricating and welding. I had never personally had anything said to me or been the subject of harassment while I worked there. Of course that wasn't the case for a lot of catholics, when I was employed there, Maurice O'Kane was shot dead on the boat while he was working, found with his welding screen still on. I'd been working on that section a few weeks earlier but was moved back into the shops. He had two sons working there at the time, one an apprentice and the other a foreman. Dreadful stuff that day
Will never forget my first day in the main yard, walked into the canteen and the place had 'flegs' the length and breadth of the canteen. Everywhere was awash with it. The UDA sat in one corner and the UVF sat in the other corner, throwing daggers at each other. They even had marches every year before we knocked off for the 12th, marching around the dock!!!
Being from the Falls it wasn't going to be easy, but 3 of us from the same school started on the same day so it made it a wee bit easier.
After the buyout in 89 they had to change, Fred Olsen came in and they changed quickly but it was still the same old workers with the same prejudges. The sectarianism was always there I'm not going to deny that, like I said (luckily) nothing happened to me and I gained all my qualifications, which has helped me in my current line of work, so I have that to thank Harland's.
I asked the training manager a few years ago when I met him out, about the low numbers and that the place was stopping catholics from starting, he said they just never got enough applicants to apply (post 88) for the job from catholic areas, he wasn't surprised due to the history of the place but they didn't stop (due to signing up to the employment equality policies) catholics joining.
The location of the yard didn't help also with so many men from east Belfast living on the door step, though that didn't stop Mackies being full of Prods also and based in west Belfast. I'm glad in workplaces today, we don't have what went on then.
I hope there is a record of the injustices that occurred in the Shipyard, the tourist need to know about that. People from a catholic background will always view the Shipyard with sectarianism and rightly so but it did make some cracking ships, I worked on a right few of them and the 'SWOPS' ship was unique in design. As for shipbuild it's done now, wind turbines is the only heavy industry work they are doing now. Ship repair gets in a few vessels but not many.
The Titanic might have gone down more slowly and more of its passengers could have been rescued if the shipyard that built it, Harland & Wolff in Northern Ireland, had not skimped on the quality of the rivets holding its hull sections together, say US researchers.
The authors of a book, What Really Sank the Titanic, claim the shipyard over-reached in attempting to build three new liners at once for the White Star Line: the famously opulent Titanic, which sank with the loss of 1,500 lives 96 years ago this week, the Olympic and the Britannic. Unable to find all the good quality iron rivets it needed, it eventually resorted to buying batches of lower-quality iron.
Theories about shoddy rivets popping prematurely after the ship struck an iceberg have been around for years; officials at Harland & Wolff have consistently dismissed them.
But this time the authors, both metallurgists, say they have found fresh evidence from archives in London and from the shipyard as well as from analysing rivets from the wreck.
That'a a very interesting story Milltown Row. Were you about when the Titanic was being built and if so can you rebuff the allegations of dodgy workmanship?
Quote from: Olly on April 04, 2012, 01:28:54 PM
That'a a very interesting story Milltown Row. Were you about when the Titanic was being built and if so can you rebuff the allegations of dodgy workmanship?
The story goes that at 5:01pm one Friday, Geordie Whiteside said to MR2 "Is that a loose rivet there?" to which MR2 replied "Ach leave it and let's go to Wilson's for a pint. Sure there'll never be another word about it"
She could have sailed through one of the cold houses for Taigs before she left... those (dinosaur-proportion) icebergs would have ripped her to shreds too, with countless lives saved.
I wonder will there be a HB stand there selling Icebergers?
http://www.loveicecream.com/ie_en/products/default.aspx?brand=iceberger&subbrand=iceberger&product=84
Quote from: AQMP on April 04, 2012, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: Olly on April 04, 2012, 01:28:54 PM
That'a a very interesting story Milltown Row. Were you about when the Titanic was being built and if so can you rebuff the allegations of dodgy workmanship?
The story goes that at 5:01pm one Friday, Geordie Whiteside said to MR2 "Is that a loose rivet there?" to which MR2 replied "Ach leave it and let's go to Wilson's for a pint. Sure there'll never be another word about it"
There was a foremean called Geordie Whiteside too but he'd have been lucky to see me at 5:01pm any day of the week!!
Plenty of Sammy's, Sandy's, Willy/Billy's of course. Norman was popular name and of course Geordie.
Unfortunately I wasn't about during the build of the Titanic. You'd have thought there would have been plenty of memorabilia of the Titanic about the place, but when I worked there I never seen any.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2012, 02:22:06 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 04, 2012, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: Olly on April 04, 2012, 01:28:54 PM
That'a a very interesting story Milltown Row. Were you about when the Titanic was being built and if so can you rebuff the allegations of dodgy workmanship?
The story goes that at 5:01pm one Friday, Geordie Whiteside said to MR2 "Is that a loose rivet there?" to which MR2 replied "Ach leave it and let's go to Wilson's for a pint. Sure there'll never be another word about it"
There was a foremean called Geordie Whiteside too but he'd have been lucky to see me at 5:01pm any day of the week!!
Plenty of Sammy's, Sandy's, Willy/Billy's of course. Norman was popular name and of course Geordie.
Unfortunately I wasn't about during the build of the Titanic. You'd have thought there would have been plenty of memorabilia of the Titanic about the place, but when I worked there I never seen any.
From what I have read H&W though it was taboo to talk about Titanic.
By all accounts some of the original drawings where only found a few years ago
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2012, 06:39:48 PM
I have to laugh at free staters slagging off northern architecture. The tallest building in Dublin has a roof on it like a child's origami project and the national parliament building looks like a reform school.
Would you kindly post evidence of this slagging off of Northern Architecture by free staters?
Quote from: muppet on April 04, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2012, 06:39:48 PM
I have to laugh at free staters slagging off northern architecture. The tallest building in Dublin has a roof on it like a child's origami project and the national parliament building looks like a reform school.
Would you kindly post evidence of this slagging off of Northern Architecture by free staters?
This p***k!!
Quote from: Free Stater on April 04, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
You northerners are terrible at architecture
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 04, 2012, 05:21:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 04, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2012, 06:39:48 PM
I have to laugh at free staters slagging off northern architecture. The tallest building in Dublin has a roof on it like a child's origami project and the national parliament building looks like a reform school.
Would you kindly post evidence of this slagging off of Northern Architecture by free staters?
This p***k!!
Quote from: Free Stater on April 04, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
You northerners are terrible at architecture
That name has to be a WUM, question is though, is it really someone from the 26 or pretending to be.
Fear not, no such poster exists, I just changed the username in a quote and wrote the text in! Relax!
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 04, 2012, 05:53:44 PM
Fear not, no such poster exists, I just changed the username in a quote and wrote the text in! Relax ya free state eejit, sell out, potato munching papist bastard.
This is fun.
Quote from: muppet on April 04, 2012, 06:25:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 04, 2012, 05:53:44 PM
Fear not, no such poster exists, I just changed the username in a quote and wrote the text in! Relax ya free state eejit, sell out, potato munching papist b**tard.
This is as much fun as my powerpoint presentation in Pomeroy last week.
The whole idea of 'celebrating' the Titanic doesn't sit right with me.
This story points to a more poignant way of remembering those that were lost:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maura-kelly/centenary-spawns-titanic-_b_1402547.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#es_share_ended (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maura-kelly/centenary-spawns-titanic-_b_1402547.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#es_share_ended)
14 people from the village of Addergoole were on the Titanic and 11 of them lost their lives.
More here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17557619 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17557619)
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 05, 2012, 05:28:59 AM
The whole idea of 'celebrating' the Titanic doesn't sit right with me.
This story points to a more poignant way of remembering those that were lost:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maura-kelly/centenary-spawns-titanic-_b_1402547.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#es_share_ended (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maura-kelly/centenary-spawns-titanic-_b_1402547.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#es_share_ended)
14 people from the village of Addergoole were on the Titanic and 11 of them lost their lives.
More here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17557619 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17557619)
QuoteNow a century later, ancestors of the lost villagers and neighbors will commemorate the "Addergoole 14" in a series of poignant new events.
That would be a far more interesting thing to see than the Titanic!
Quote from: johnneycool on April 04, 2012, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 04, 2012, 11:07:45 AM
Expect to see ship building in general and the Titanic in particular being introduced into curriculum for schools in the north. This would mean half the required numbers could be guaranteed from school trips.
As a couple of posters above have alluded to, the anti-Catholic sectarianism of H&W is one of only two things that most people associate with that company (the other being the Titanic). I can assume therefore that this practice is given equal coverage in the new flagship building, particularly since much of the worst excesses of sectarianism occurred in the same year Titanic sank.
Or maybe not.
Is there an iceberg in there as well?
Why should there be an iceberg in there as well?
Was the iceberg built in Belfast?
Did it discriminate on the basis of religion?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 05, 2012, 07:53:32 AM
Why should there be an iceberg in there as well?
Was the iceberg built in Belfast?
Did it discriminate on the basis of religion?
More importantly, was it a catholic iceberg or a protestant iceberg?
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 04, 2012, 05:21:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 04, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2012, 06:39:48 PM
I have to laugh at free staters slagging off northern architecture. The tallest building in Dublin has a roof on it like a child's origami project and the national parliament building looks like a reform school.
Would you kindly post evidence of this slagging off of Northern Architecture by free staters?
This p***k!!
Quote from: Free Stater on April 04, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
You northerners are terrible at architecture
Notice how he posted at exactly the same time as me, the scitter.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 05, 2012, 07:53:32 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 04, 2012, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 04, 2012, 11:07:45 AM
Expect to see ship building in general and the Titanic in particular being introduced into curriculum for schools in the north. This would mean half the required numbers could be guaranteed from school trips.
As a couple of posters above have alluded to, the anti-Catholic sectarianism of H&W is one of only two things that most people associate with that company (the other being the Titanic). I can assume therefore that this practice is given equal coverage in the new flagship building, particularly since much of the worst excesses of sectarianism occurred in the same year Titanic sank.
Or maybe not.
Is there an iceberg in there as well?
Why should there be an iceberg in there as well?
Was the iceberg built in Belfast?
Did it discriminate on the basis of religion?
No iceberg, no story.
Simples.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2012, 08:25:36 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 04, 2012, 05:21:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 04, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2012, 06:39:48 PM
I have to laugh at free staters slagging off northern architecture. The tallest building in Dublin has a roof on it like a child's origami project and the national parliament building looks like a reform school.
Would you kindly post evidence of this slagging off of Northern Architecture by free staters?
This p***k!!
Quote from: Free Stater on April 04, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
You northerners are terrible at architecture
Notice how he posted at exactly the same time as me, the scitter.
His spoof posts was 2 days after your post. My question to you is still unanswered.
800,000 visitors in year 1 and only needing 290,000 to break even.
Even with a possible significant fall-off in future years, it's a decent start.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22263955
Quote from: muppet on April 05, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
My question to you is still unanswered.
I know. Terrible, isn't it?
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 11:01:51 PM
800,000 visitors in year 1 and only needing 290,000 to break even.
Even with a possible significant fall-off in future years, it's a decent start.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22263955
What's that they were saying about white elephants?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 23, 2013, 11:46:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 11:01:51 PM
800,000 visitors in year 1 and only needing 290,000 to break even.
Even with a possible significant fall-off in future years, it's a decent start.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22263955
What's that they were saying about white elephants?
Come back to us in a few years and ask us that question.
I've never been, nor intend to go, but I'd imagine it's a place you'd only want to see once. In five years, it'll be struggling. If not before.
I honestly think the whole thing is very distateful. What was it, 700 odd people die and they're celebrating it? They should hang their heads in shame. Any other city would want to try and rid themselves of any connection with such a thing. But not Belfast!
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 12:54:16 PM
I've never been, nor intend to go, but I'd imagine it's a place you'd only want to see once. In five years, it'll be struggling. If not before.
I honestly think the whole thing is very distateful. What was it, 700 odd people die and they're celebrating it? They should hang their heads in shame. Any other city would want to try and rid themselves of any connection with such a thing. But not Belfast!
Its in no way a celebration. Very sombre, very interesting, quite impressive. Stories of the unfortunate victims and the lucky survivors plays a major part in the exhibition.
Went there in January and I thought it was excellent.
Really enjoyed the few hours I spent there.
I was at first sceptical over this whole Titanic project but the figures released seem to justify it. Whether the centre will maintain enough visitors in the coming years remains to be seen. I have yet to visit it but have been up in and around it (never looks busy!) and will probably call in at some stage during the summer.
Would disagree about the thing being distasteful, the only thing I find distasteful is the Titanic memorial that they put in at city hall. Why it took them this long to 'remember' is puzzling (Wonder will they remember the famine?)
I was there last May. Didn't like it. It was badly organised and some of the expeditions were hyped up too much in the media.
I was there last summer when I was home on holiday and I thought it was fantastic.
The missus thought it was great as well.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 12:54:16 PM
I've never been, nor intend to go, but I'd imagine it's a place you'd only want to see once. In five years, it'll be struggling. If not before.
I honestly think the whole thing is very distateful. What was it, 700 odd people die and they're celebrating it? They should hang their heads in shame. Any other city would want to try and rid themselves of any connection with such a thing. But not Belfast!
Who said it was a celebration of people dying? Seems more like a celebration of the city's contribution to the industrial world.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 12:54:16 PM
I've never been, nor intend to go, but I'd imagine it's a place you'd only want to see once. In five years, it'll be struggling. If not before.
So your analysis is based on somewhere you've never been and seem to know little about. If there's a good market from tourists, then it'll hardly matter if it's a place people only go to once. Factor in the likes of steady business from school tours and functions and there's probably a decent starting point for regular custom.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 12:54:16 PM
I honestly think the whole thing is very distateful. What was it, 700 odd people die and they're celebrating it? They should hang their heads in shame. Any other city would want to try and rid themselves of any connection with such a thing. But not Belfast!
It's as much a celebration of people dying as Auschwitz is a celebration of the holocaust.
And why would you rid yourself with a connection that 800,000 people will pay to see in a year?
I meant that it's distasteful celebrating a ship that sank (with the loss of 700 lives), not celebrating that 700 people died.
If it's indeed a celebration of Belfast shipbuilding, it doesn't do much for that as it didn't even complete one trip across the Atlantic.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
I meant that it's distasteful celebrating a ship that sank (with the loss of 700 lives), not celebrating that 700 people died.
If it's indeed a celebration of Belfast shipbuilding, it doesn't do much for that as it didn't even complete one trip across the Atlantic.
I don't think it's so much 'celebrating' as telling a story.
QuoteI don't think it's so much 'celebrating' as telling a story.
Exactly. It is commemorating, not celebrating. It is reflecting on life and how it changes.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
I meant that it's distasteful celebrating a ship that sank (with the loss of 700 lives), not celebrating that 700 people died.
If it's indeed a celebration of Belfast shipbuilding, it doesn't do much for that as it didn't even complete one trip across the Atlantic.
Did you think the same when the movie was made?
But, an interesting point you have made - when is too soon to commemorate or look at a project like this?
I think most people are comfortable with the Titanic project because of the few, if any survivors and relatives/friends who would have mourned their passing.
And that could be the sticking point for the whole Maze Long Kesh project - maybe it is still too raw for people who lived and suffered throught the troubles, on both sides.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
I meant that it's distasteful celebrating a ship that sank (with the loss of 700 lives), not celebrating that 700 people died.
If it's indeed a celebration of Belfast shipbuilding, it doesn't do much for that as it didn't even complete one trip across the Atlantic.
Coming soon - a celebration of Ukrainian nuclear power plant building, to be followed by a celebration of Bangladeshi construction engineering.
Titanic centre is first class. Replicating among other things, parts of the shipyard as it was in the early 20th century and incorporating other aspects of social life and the industries of Belfast of the same era, with first class replicas of typical cabins from Prime to basic etc, audio visuals, biographies of the main people in the shipping company and crew etc, it is a mini history of the entire period. It is also a popular spot for launching a host of events from the Ulster Championship to the N West 200 etc. The big question is would locals go back for a second visit, though I assume the offering is going to be changed periodically.
It is cashing in on the world wide interest in the disaster and can hardly be faulted for that. Is it distasteful? Well no, not when you consider that one of the great grandaughters of a passenger on the ill fated ship, runs her own Titanic Tours in Belfast.
It is a must see attraction for all visitors to Belfast and I guarantee all first time visitors will be impressed. You could easily spend the entire day there.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on April 24, 2013, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
I meant that it's distasteful celebrating a ship that sank (with the loss of 700 lives), not celebrating that 700 people died.
If it's indeed a celebration of Belfast shipbuilding, it doesn't do much for that as it didn't even complete one trip across the Atlantic.
Did you think the same when the movie was made?
But, an interesting point you have made - when is too soon to commemorate or look at a project like this?
I think most people are comfortable with the Titanic project because of the few, if any survivors and relatives/friends who would have mourned their passing.
And that could be the sticking point for the whole Maze Long Kesh project - maybe it is still too raw for people who lived and suffered throught the troubles, on both sides.
In fairness to Benny, some of the events to mark the 100th anniversary were a lot like celebrations rather than commemorations. Titanic themed crisps, titanic shaped childrens slides, titanic concert, MTV Titanic Sounds etc etc etc.... Here's how Katie Melua saw the centenary events: "I think the Titanic
celebrations are very exciting. You realise what a historic event it was because it's been
celebrated so much recently."
I think the word "celebrated" has many connotations, for example you hardly get a high when mass is "celebrated".
Belfast is inextricably linked with the Titanic brand, so why not cash in tastefully in the global interest. I thought the marking of the centenary last year was tasteful, with a host of religious ceremonies remembering the victims, not least one at the spot were the ship actually sunk.
As for the accusation that faulty workmanship at the yard caused the demise of the liner, well in the Titanic quarter in Belfast you'll see loads of t shirts and other memoribilia proclaiming the immortal words "It was alright when it left here!"
Some events were tasteful but not everything was. You can't dress an MTV concert up as a commemoration no matter how hard you try!! To quote the Belfast Telegraph: "As the centenary approaches and the festivities beckon..."
Anyway the exhibition is fairly good alright, but not as impressive as the hype led me to believe. Noticeable too that if you ask most people what comes to mind when they think of H&W shipyard, they'll tell you two things, the Titanic and sectarianism. In 1912, the year of the Titanic's launch, over 6,000 Catholics were expelled from the shipyards and other industrial sites across Belfast. This institutionalized sectarianism is almost completely ignored by the exhibition. Hardly a surprise, but it's hard to claim to present an accurate picture of life in the shipyard (which is a big part of the museum) if the huge big elephant in the room is ignored.
I take your point, but the political centenaries, both 1912 and 1916 have a place in the exhibition, if memory serves me well.
As for pop concerts etc, are you saying people should have gone to Live Aid and not enjoyed themselves? It is possible to have an event for a tragic cause and celebrate the memory of the victims, or the cause that is being promoted. Far worse if they'd been forgotten about altogether.
Also if part of the remit of the Titanic Building and quarter is to usher Belfast into a new era, then its hardly appropriate to show negativity to the visitors, none of whom are likely to be interested in that aspect.
I have to agree with Tony here, what the fcuk would anyone from Belfast know about icebergs?
Quote from: T Fearon on April 25, 2013, 04:05:46 PM
I take your point, but the political centenaries, both 1912 and 1916 have a place in the exhibition, if memory serves me well.
As for pop concerts etc, are you saying people should have gone to Live Aid and not enjoyed themselves? It is possible to have an event for a tragic cause and celebrate the memory of the victims, or the cause that is being promoted. Far worse if they'd been forgotten about altogether.
Also if part of the remit of the Titanic Building and quarter is to usher Belfast into a new era, then its hardly appropriate to show negativity to the visitors, none of whom are likely to be interested in that aspect.
It's now about "ushering in a new era"? I thought you said it was about commemorating (i.e. the past?) I don't buy into such wishy-washy arguments. Pure nonsense. If the museum is supposed to exhibit the history of the shipyard, then it should do just that, and not present the shipyard as being something it wasn't. As I said, if sectarianism in H&W was only a rare occurrence then by all means sideline it, but to many people, the history of H&W is as much or maybe more about sectarianism as much as it is about the Titanic.
On July 21st 1920, the aftermath of Titanic, notices were posted in the shipyards calling Protestant and Unionist workers to meet at lunch time outside the gates of the south yard. At the end of the meeting hundreds of apprentices and rivet boys ordered out Catholic workers.
"Some were kicked and beaten, others were pelted with rivets, and some were forced to swim for their lives. One Catholic remembers; "the gates were smashed down with sledges, the vests and shirts of those at work were torn open to see if the men were wearing any Catholic emblems and woe betide the man who was. One man was set upon, thrown into the dock, had to swim the Musgrave channel, and having been pelted with rivets, had to swim two or three miles, to emerge in streams of blood and rush to the nearest police station in a nude state' (Bardon 1992 p471)."To quote Jude Collins:
"The real problem begins when you start to kid yourself about sectarianism. When, for example, you go on and on and on about the Titanic, while refusing to admit even to yourself that the shipyards were always a cockpit for sectarianism. And not two-way sectarianism. It wasn't Protestant workers were beaten up at the shipyards, no Protestant workers were thrown in the water, no Protestant workers were sent fleeing for their lives. So next time you hear the BBC or some other media outlet glory in the Titanic ...keep in mind that they're twisting history in a – that's right, sectarian way."
The museum claims to tell the story of the shipyard's past. It seems that one of the single biggest realities of life in the shipyards, and one of the two things that spring to mind when we think of the shipyard, it is basically the
only aspect of life in this shipyard that isn't given the whole 9 yards of treatment, and worse, is almost totally ignored.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
I meant that it's distasteful celebrating a ship that sank (with the loss of 700 lives), not celebrating that 700 people died.
If it's indeed a celebration of Belfast shipbuilding, it doesn't do much for that as it didn't even complete one trip across the Atlantic.
Olympic had a long life and made plenty of trips back and forth. Britanic served as a hospital ship in WWI until it struck a mine and sank off Gallipoli. Canberra and plenty of other notable ships were built there. There's plenty of heritage and much to learn about the era of the great ocean liners. There's an excellent documentary series that starts here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGcGvR4PEc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGcGvR4PEc) and all episodes are on youtube. Well worth a watch. It might change your view.
(It was 1500 people, by the way.)
Nally Stand,I don't see how or why the Titanic Building should draw attention to the undeniable sectarianism prevalent in the Shipyard.What would the point of that be? The building is a shrine to a ship not the shipyard.
It's like expecting Unionists to include their second class citizenship treatment of Catholics for long periods in the 20th century as part of the 1912 centenary celebrations.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 25, 2013, 05:38:10 PM
Nally Stand,I don't see how or why the Titanic Building should draw attention to the undeniable sectarianism prevalent in the Shipyard.What would the point of that be? The building is a shrine to a ship not the shipyard.
It's like expecting Unionists to include their second class citizenship treatment of Catholics for long periods in the 20th century as part of the 1912 centenary celebrations.
A huge chunk of the exhibition is about life in the yard itself, not just about the Titanic. So if they want it to be taken seriously as something of an authority on the history of the shipyard and seen a place where people can go to learn about the history of it, then surely they can't just ignore one of the single biggest issues of that history ffs!! You say the sectarianism at H&W was "undeniable", well as long as the exhibition ignores it, they are doing the next best thing to denying it. Airbrushing it away, you could say.
Did you seriously expect it to be included? Will the Maze exhibition feature paramilitary excesses?
Quote from: T Fearon on April 25, 2013, 05:56:02 PM
Did you seriously expect it to be included? Will the Maze exhibition feature paramilitary excesses?
Would I expect an exhibition on the history of a shipyard to tell the story of one of the most talked about elements of it's history? Yes I would.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 23, 2013, 11:46:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 05, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
My question to you is still unanswered.
I know. Terrible, isn't it?
It isn't terrible, it simply speak volumes.
As for the Titanic, a very enjoyable day out.
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 25, 2013, 06:15:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 25, 2013, 05:56:02 PM
Did you seriously expect it to be included? Will the Maze exhibition feature paramilitary excesses?
Would I expect an exhibition on the history of a shipyard to tell the story of one of the most talked about elements of it's history? Yes I would.
Have you gone?
If not, why not?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 25, 2013, 07:20:47 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 25, 2013, 06:15:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 25, 2013, 05:56:02 PM
Did you seriously expect it to be included? Will the Maze exhibition feature paramilitary excesses?
Would I expect an exhibition on the history of a shipyard to tell the story of one of the most talked about elements of it's history? Yes I would.
Have you gone?
If not, why not?
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 25, 2013, 03:57:42 PM
Anyway the exhibition is fairly good alright, but not as impressive as the hype led me to believe.
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2013, 06:42:59 PM
It isn't terrible, it simply speak volumes.
*smack* *smack* Wicked child! We don't use clichés around here!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 25, 2013, 10:52:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2013, 06:42:59 PM
It isn't terrible, it simply speak volumes.
*smack* *smack* Wicked child! We don't use clichés around here!
Just blanket insults that you can't back up.
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 25, 2013, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 25, 2013, 05:38:10 PM
Nally Stand,I don't see how or why the Titanic Building should draw attention to the undeniable sectarianism prevalent in the Shipyard.What would the point of that be? The building is a shrine to a ship not the shipyard.
It's like expecting Unionists to include their second class citizenship treatment of Catholics for long periods in the 20th century as part of the 1912 centenary celebrations.
A huge chunk of the exhibition is about life in the yard itself, not just about the Titanic. So if they want it to be taken seriously as something of an authority on the history of the shipyard and seen a place where people can go to learn about the history of it, then surely they can't just ignore one of the single biggest issues of that history ffs!! You say the sectarianism at H&W was "undeniable", well as long as the exhibition ignores it, they are doing the next best thing to denying it. Airbrushing it away, you could say.
I am very grateful to the shipyard for giving me a start in life, I certainly wouldn't be where I am today without the training and experience that I picked up while serving my apprenticeship and the years afterwards. Yes there was widespread discrimination, and that thing not only happend there but Shorts, and Mackies also.
While there (13 years) I never experienced anything myself but I did see all the trappings and a catholic worker was shot dead on the ship, terrible times . As for the titanic exhibit, it's some spot, plenty of stuff about old Belfast, great old maps with the old streets where my parents grew up.
There is celebration on the actual building of the ships and the commemoration on the death of the passengers, they do both in fairness
Quote from: muppet on April 26, 2013, 02:08:57 PM
Just blanket insults that you can't back up.
Since when did insults need a backup?