Poll
Question:
Who was your footballer of the year...
Option 1: Colm Cooper
votes: 3
Option 2: Darran O'Sullivan
votes: 7
Option 3: Bryan Sheehan
votes: 4
Option 4: Paul Flynn
votes: 1
Option 5: Alan Brogan
votes: 20
Option 6: Bernard Brogan
votes: 2
Option 7: Karl Lacey
votes: 29
Option 8: Stephen Cluxton
votes: 7
Option 9: Andy Moran
votes: 7
Maith An Fear
Johnny Doyle?
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 21, 2011, 03:37:01 PM
Johnny Doyle?
Kildare only got as far as the Q/F and JD by his standards, took an early knock admittedly, was quite poor.
Lacey. Supremely gifted footballer. Superb in every game until his injury against Dublin. Already one of the elite cornerbacks, he excelled at centre back and was vital to Donegal's attacking game, even laying off the pass to McFadden for the vital first goal against Tyrone after a typical charge up the field, and in the last minute of extra time against Kildare, making a key interception on his own 14 yard line before ending up on the edge of the Kildare square 30 seconds later, making himself available as Cassidy hit the winner. No coincidence that Donegal's attacking was non-existent from when he went off after half-time in the semi.
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2011, 03:54:11 PM
Lacey. Supremely gifted footballer. Superb in every game until his injury against Dublin. Already one of the elite cornerbacks, he excelled at centre back and was vital to Donegal's attacking game, even laying off the pass to McFadden for the vital first goal against Tyrone after a typical charge up the field, and in the last minute of extra time against Kildare, making a key interception on his own 14 yard line before ending up on the edge of the Kildare square 30 seconds later, making himself available as Cassidy hit the winner. No coincidence that Donegal's attacking was non-existent from when he went off after half-time in the semi.
:o :o :o
I know a Kerry man who had Darran O'Sullivan at the start of the year for Footballer of the Year. He got him at 66s and stuck €50 on him. With seven minutes to go last Sunday, I'd say he was counting his €3,300!
O'Sullivan might just sneak it yet but I think Alan Brogan will get it. Phenomenal in Leinster, very good v Tyrone and while he didn't set the world alight in the last two games, he produced very consistent performances too.
Alan Brogan by a country mile
Do they all post on here?
I'll get my coat...
Quote from: Declan on September 21, 2011, 04:19:13 PM
Alan Brogan by a country mile
How so?
I accept that he is a leading contender and, being from the winning team, will probably win the official award, but on what basis is he a "country mile" ahead of all other contenders?
Because he's a Dub :D
I just think that his performances in the national league right through the championship were the model of consistency and I can't think of a game where he wasn't one of Dublin's better performers. His attitude is top class, he never really gets involved with any crap on the pitch, he has matured greatly over the last couple of years in terms of his shot selection etc.
Even on Sunday he got our first two points was involved in the most important score - the goal - and generally was top class. I'm sure the others had good years but I thought Lacey was average in the semi before he went off.
Did I say because he was a Dub and because the media want himt to get it ;)
Lacey wasn't even the best CHB in the semis, Vaughan was. And as for Lacey's attacking game, Vaughan scored 3 points against Kerry.
That's not just because I am form Mayo, I didn't vote for Andy, I voted for Alan Brogan and I hope he wins it.
Judging the bookie odds it looks like Alan Brogan is going to get footballer of the year so i must be missing something? for the record i voted Lacey.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 21, 2011, 03:41:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 21, 2011, 03:37:01 PM
Johnny Doyle?
Kildare only got as far as the Q/F and JD by his standards, took an early knock admittedly, was quite poor.
The question as I took it was GAA Board Footballer of the Year.
Doyle was instrumental in getting Kildare to the Q/F and if we are being unkind all those others were the beneficiaries of being in very good teams.
Quote from: Declan on September 21, 2011, 04:29:26 PM
Because he's a Dub :D
I just think that his performances in the national league right through the championship were the model of consistency and I can't think of a game where he wasn't one of Dublin's better performers. His attitude is top class, he never really gets involved with any crap on the pitch, he has matured greatly over the last couple of years in terms of his shot selection etc.
Even on Sunday he got our first two points was involved in the most important score - the goal - and generally was top class. I'm sure the others had good years but I thought Lacey was average in the semi before he went off.
Did I say because he was a Dub and because the media want himt to get it ;)
At least you're honest! :)
And on the semi, if you're going to dismiss Lacey's performance, how does Brogan's quiet afternoon factor in to your analysis?
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2011, 04:31:19 PM
Lacey wasn't even the best CHB in the semis, Vaughan was. And as for Lacey's attacking game, Vaughan scored 3 points against Kerry.
That's not just because I am form Mayo, I didn't vote for Andy, I voted for Alan Brogan and I hope he wins it.
Lacey was injured in the first half of the semi final before finally giving in early in the second.
If you think Vaughan was more deserving of consideration than Lacey over the season, then advocate for him.
Only a couple of players who didn't win the All-Ireland Final have won POTY and to the best of my knowledge no one who didn't make a final has won it (BB last year was very much the exception).
I didn't dismiss his performance in the semi I said he was average as against your superb- and in that game I didn't think it was about performance really, it was about patience,guts, determination and willingness to win when the opportunity presented itself and Alan was part of that
Bernard Brogan,Johnny Doyle were excellent last year no forward this year was anywhere near that level.
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2011, 04:42:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2011, 04:31:19 PM
Lacey wasn't even the best CHB in the semis, Vaughan was. And as for Lacey's attacking game, Vaughan scored 3 points against Kerry.
That's not just because I am form Mayo, I didn't vote for Andy, I voted for Alan Brogan and I hope he wins it.
Lacey was injured in the first half of the semi final before finally giving in early in the second.
If you think Vaughan was more deserving of consideration than Lacey over the season, then advocate for him.
POTY comes almost always comes from the winners, rarely from the losing finalists and once ever from a losing semi-finalist. His semi-final performance hardly warrants it and while Vaughan had a great semi-final it hardly warrants POTY.
Didn't Matty Forde and/or Declan Browne win POTY?
Quote from: thewobbler on September 21, 2011, 04:51:31 PM
Didn't Matty Forde and/or Declan Browne win POTY?
Maybe the GPA version but the only non-AIF winners of the Gaa POTY were BB and Colm O'Rourke and some guy in the 50s.
Between 3 for me Lacey, Brogan and Cluxton. Going by performances I would say Lacey or Cluxton as Brogan didn't do a pile in the last 2 games but because of the hype he will probably get it.
Quote from: Declan on September 21, 2011, 04:29:26 PM
Because he's a Dub :D
I just think that his performances in the national league right through the championship were the model of consistency and I can't think of a game where he wasn't one of Dublin's better performers. His attitude is top class, he never really gets involved with any crap on the pitch, he has matured greatly over the last couple of years in terms of his shot selection etc.
Even on Sunday he got our first two points was involved in the most important score - the goal - and generally was top class. I'm sure the others had good years but I thought Lacey was average in the semi before he went off.
Did I say because he was a Dub and because the media want himt to get it ;)
Now Delan I know you're old and on a high but is the memory really that bad.... ;)
(http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/65/07/87/902204cb9a872442635d5ece1cbbf607346c9f24e0/INPHO_00235090.jpg)
Quote from: Declan on September 21, 2011, 04:45:22 PM
I didn't dismiss his performance in the semi I said he was average as against your superb- and in that game I didn't think it was about performance really, it was about patience,guts, determination and willingness to win when the opportunity presented itself and Alan was part of that
I thought he was excellent in marshalling the Donegal defense until the injury. Sadly, he wasn't there in the second to exhibit all those qualities you list, as he had in previous games.
I'm not saying Brogan would not be a worth winner. I just don't see how he could be rated way ahead of the likes of Lacey.
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 21, 2011, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 21, 2011, 03:41:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 21, 2011, 03:37:01 PM
Johnny Doyle?
Kildare only got as far as the Q/F and JD by his standards, took an early knock admittedly, was quite poor.
The question as I took it was GAA Board Footballer of the Year.
Doyle was instrumental in getting Kildare to the Q/F and if we are being unkind all those others were the beneficiaries of being in very good teams.
Yea but JD was in a good team as well ya cheeky fecker. His performances were very good but the true worth of a footballer is when it's pure knock-out and the team looks to you for inspiration, he never got the chance to prove his worth this year in that context.
QuoteNow Delan I know you're old and on a high but is the memory really that bad
Indeed Dinny one of the advantages of maturity is selective recollection!!!
That was years ago and I did say he has matured :D
I see Alan Brogan only scored one more championship point than Cluxton this year though he was good on the assists,kick passing & possession.
http://dublingaastats.weebly.com/2011-summary-for-year.html
I voted for my fellow County man. ;)
Anyway we GAAboarders will decide who is the GAABoard player of the year.
Let the Dublin meeja do what they will.
You did, in terms of shot selection but I'm being disingenuous as I know he has matured considerably in his attitude, the Gilroy affect on this team has been very positive and makes them unfortunately for us 'Dub Haters' a likeable team.... :-[
Have to say Andy Moran. Took Micheal Shields and Marc O'Se to the cleaner's this year. I think if this was the likes of Connolly or Donaghy they would have been in the running for POTY but the fact he's from Mayo he won't be. Should defo get an All-Star though. The lad really deserves it!
Hope Darran O'Sullivan gets it now though. He was the other stand out player this year.
Quote from: Sam2011 on September 21, 2011, 09:14:25 PM
Have to say Andy Moran. Took Micheal Shields and Marc O'Se to the cleaner's this year. I think if this was the likes of Connolly or Donaghy they would have been in the running for POTY but the fact he's from Mayo he won't be. Should defo get an All-Star though. The lad really deserves it!
Hope Darran O'Sullivan gets it now though. He was the other stand out player this year.
Think Andy Moran will be in with a good shout for an all star but is a bit shy of POTY.
Voted for Darren Sullivan. Definitely the most exciting player this season but wasteful at times as in the Mayo match. Almost too fast at times in terms of steadying up to take the shot. Great man to win ball and take a hit also.
darren Sull or Lacey--Brogan wasnt outstanding for me--he'd better years in the past
Dunno why there's been such a clamour since Sunday for him to win it
Alan Brogan was outstanding all year and I can't understand how anyone could claim he had a quite ladt two games, he was very good in both. Definitely this years POTY.
Darran O'Sullivan should get it but I stuck £2.50 on Karl Lacey at 150/1 with Paddy Power just for the craic.
Quote from: Zulu on September 21, 2011, 09:51:53 PM
Alan Brogan was outstanding all year and I can't understand how anyone could claim he had a quite ladt two games, he was very good in both. Definitely this years POTY.
I'm a big fan of the Brogans Zulu and Alan had a good year but its not as definite for him to win it as it was for Bernard last year.
I agree but I think he deserves it nonetheless as I thought he contributed very well to all games and was excellent in most.
Quote from: ross4life on September 21, 2011, 05:12:44 PM
I see Alan Brogan only scored one more championship point than Cluxton this year though he was good on the assists,kick passing & possession.
http://dublingaastats.weebly.com/2011-summary-for-year.html
Ya but Dublin had no score after 10mins in AI final and who popped over the opening 2, Alan Brogan, when the pressures on he gets them, settled the team down. I voted for Alan but OSullivan was very close. This might shock people but i was disappointed with cluxton in 2nd half, i thought his kickouts were poor especially when kerry were on top he kicked a few short to corner backs and put them in all sorts of trouble. Of course his free will blank that from most peoples memory, he was excellent all yr though and is the best keeper.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on September 22, 2011, 01:00:33 AM
Quote from: ross4life on September 21, 2011, 05:12:44 PM
I see Alan Brogan only scored one more championship point than Cluxton this year though he was good on the assists,kick passing & possession.
http://dublingaastats.weebly.com/2011-summary-for-year.html
Ya but Dublin had no score after 10mins in AI final and who popped over the opening 2, Alan Brogan, when the pressures on he gets them, settled the team down.
I always thought pressure scores was the last 10mins? anyways his two & only points on Sunday probably did set the Dublin fire as others lit it.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on September 22, 2011, 01:00:33 AM
Quote from: ross4life on September 21, 2011, 05:12:44 PM
I see Alan Brogan only scored one more championship point than Cluxton this year though he was good on the assists,kick passing & possession.
http://dublingaastats.weebly.com/2011-summary-for-year.html
Ya but Dublin had no score after 10mins in AI final and who popped over the opening 2, Alan Brogan, when the pressures on he gets them, settled the team down. I voted for Alan but OSullivan was very close. This might shock people but i was disappointed with cluxton in 2nd half, i thought his kickouts were poor especially when kerry were on top he kicked a few short to corner backs and put them in all sorts of trouble. Of course his free will blank that from most peoples memory, he was excellent all yr though and is the best keeper.
Agreed. His kick outs were'nt nearly as accurate as they were for most of the season. But apart from the free at the end I think he also caught what looked like a certain point at one stage.
Not as clear cut as last year but Alan Brogan as well for me. Cillian O'Connor for YPOTY, reminds me of a young Dessie Dolan.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 22, 2011, 11:24:32 AM
Not as clear cut as last year but Alan Brogan as well for me. Cillian O'Connor for YPOTY, reminds me of a young Dessie Dolan.
More composure with the frees though ;)
Quote from: ross4life on September 22, 2011, 01:23:01 AM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on September 22, 2011, 01:00:33 AM
Quote from: ross4life on September 21, 2011, 05:12:44 PM
I see Alan Brogan only scored one more championship point than Cluxton this year though he was good on the assists,kick passing & possession.
http://dublingaastats.weebly.com/2011-summary-for-year.html
Ya but Dublin had no score after 10mins in AI final and who popped over the opening 2, Alan Brogan, when the pressures on he gets them, settled the team down.
I always thought pressure scores was the last 10mins? anyways his two & only points on Sunday probably did set the Dublin fire as others lit it.
Thats a fair point but in a AI final 10 mins and no score, it takes a serious player to pop over the opening 2 the way he did, panic may have set in had he hit them wide and 13/14 mins gone. Just feel it settled Dublin and he lead by example, his footpassing was exemplary and late on he got on the frees and supplied the HF line. Just calmness personified.
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2011, 04:44:17 PM
Only a couple of players who didn't win the All-Ireland Final have won POTY and to the best of my knowledge no one who didn't make a final has won it (BB last year was very much the exception).
Stevie McDonnell won it in 2003.
Canavan won it in 2003.
Quote from: muppet on September 22, 2011, 08:28:39 PM
Canavan won it in 2003.
I think you'll find he didnt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Stars_Footballer_of_the_Year
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 22, 2011, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 22, 2011, 08:28:39 PM
Canavan won it in 2003.
I think you'll find he didnt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Stars_Footballer_of_the_Year
Interesting, I was working off this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texaco_Footballer_of_the_Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texaco_Footballer_of_the_Year)
(http://cache.abovethelaw.com/uploads/2011/02/drum-roll-please.png)
Karl Lacey
What does he get?
Recount.....................A Brogan wins the real deal by a big margin
None of these. Marty Clarke is still for me the best all-round footballer and despite Down's relatively poor year ( top Ulster league team, last 12 in championship), the begrudgers will be happy when he returns to Oz- that, for me , sums up the worst of us Irish; the need to pull someone down when they achieve.He was joint top Ulster scorer in c'ship-again !
Anyway, Karl Lacey is a fine athlete who does his job very well.
Colm Cooper is a genius and it is a privilege to see hiim play.
Darren O'Sullivan was the most exciting and skilful player this year.
Alan Brogan was the most effective- fair play, and he deserves the vote of this board
Sean Cavanagh was superb, as always,this year,
Down will only appreciate the loss of Marty when he is gone.
Quote from: Dubh driocht on September 25, 2011, 02:25:01 AM
None of these. Marty Clarke is still for me the best all-round footballer and despite Down's relatively poor year ( top Ulster league team, last 12 in championship), the begrudgers will be happy when he returns to Oz- that, for me , sums up the worst of us Irish; the need to pull someone down when they achieve.He was joint top Ulster scorer in c'ship-again !
Anyway, Karl Lacey is a fine athlete who does his job very well.
Colm Cooper is a genius and it is a privilege to see hiim play.
Darren O'Sullivan was the most exciting and skilful player this year.
Alan Brogan was the most effective- fair play, and he deserves the vote of this board
Sean Cavanagh was superb, as always,this year,
Down will only appreciate the loss of Marty when he is gone.
Surely you are not advocating the bould Marty as footballer of the year?
I think he is ya know :D
Quote from: Dubh driocht on September 25, 2011, 02:25:01 AM
None of these. Marty Clarke is still for me the best all-round footballer and despite Down's relatively poor year ( top Ulster league team, last 12 in championship), the begrudgers will be happy when he returns to Oz- that, for me , sums up the worst of us Irish; the need to pull someone down when they achieve.He was joint top Ulster scorer in c'ship-again !
Anyway, Karl Lacey is a fine athlete who does his job very well.
Colm Cooper is a genius and it is a privilege to see hiim play.
Darren O'Sullivan was the most exciting and skilful player this year.
Alan Brogan was the most effective- fair play, and he deserves the vote of this board
Sean Cavanagh was superb, as always,this year,
Down will only appreciate the loss of Marty when he is gone.
He is hugely over-rated (MC). Scored about 1-3 from play this year - definitely should be in the running for player of the year. First time I ever heard someone as being the 'top Ulster league team'.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 21, 2011, 10:52:18 PM
It's a shame that Niall Sheridan still isn't playing at county level, he'd be a big contender here.
He's a bit bigger now than you would remember him. ;)
Anyone know the betting for POTY?
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 26, 2011, 09:31:49 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 21, 2011, 10:52:18 PM
It's a shame that Niall Sheridan still isn't playing at county level, he'd be a big contender here.
He's a bit bigger now than you would remember him. ;)
I don't think that's possible.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 26, 2011, 01:48:36 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 26, 2011, 09:31:49 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 21, 2011, 10:52:18 PM
It's a shame that Niall Sheridan still isn't playing at county level, he'd be a big contender here.
He's a bit bigger now than you would remember him. ;)
I don't think that's possible.
Ahem, may I refer you thus to http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=217.1280 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=217.1280) (see post #1280). His club team used an unusual strategy to employ him as a resource this year, I understand.
Good lord.
It takes serious work to get that size.
He must get up in the middle of the night to have a snack box.
Reckon Lacey has any chance? I have £2.50 on him at 150/1 with Paddy Power??? Might get the missus her Xmas present.
Quote from: 4father on September 27, 2011, 09:33:37 PM
Reckon Lacey has any chance? I have £2.50 on him at 150/1 with Paddy Power??? Might get the missus her Xmas present.
When you get him at that price
Alan Brogan . Sin E.
Nobody comes close in consistency and sheer brilliance this year for me.
Any justice its Alans.
What is this the Brogan award? Karl Lacey for me
Quote from: INDIANA on September 29, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
Alan Brogan . Sin E.
Nobody comes close in consistency and sheer brilliance this year for me.
Any justice its Alans.
Too many balls into the Donegal keeper's hands in the semi for me (hardly "brilliant"). Cluxton's the man, Dublin would not, could not, have won it without him.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on September 29, 2011, 11:32:07 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 29, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
Alan Brogan . Sin E.
Nobody comes close in consistency and sheer brilliance this year for me.
Any justice its Alans.
Too many balls into the Donegal keeper's hands in the semi for me (hardly "brilliant"). Cluxton's the man, Dublin would not, could not, have won it without him.
Same v Wexford & i remember reading article that highlighted Alan Brogan's poor kicking. IMO the best part of Dublin's team was their defence & keeper.
Quote from: ross4life on September 30, 2011, 12:07:12 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on September 29, 2011, 11:32:07 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 29, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
Alan Brogan . Sin E.
Nobody comes close in consistency and sheer brilliance this year for me.
Any justice its Alans.
Playing all their matches at home didnt do them any harm either
Too many balls into the Donegal keeper's hands in the semi for me (hardly "brilliant"). Cluxton's the man, Dublin would not, could not, have won it without him.
Same v Wexford & i remember reading article that highlighted Alan Brogan's poor kicking. IMO the best part of Dublin's team was their defence & keeper.
Alan Brogan was very poor in the AI semi-final. POTY should be consistently excellent in every game which Lacey was so hardly a question of justice.
Cluxton's kick-outs weren't quite at their best in the final. He kind of made up for that though...
Cluxton or Lacey in my book and Brogan, while very good, shouldn't get it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 30, 2011, 08:15:37 PM
Alan Brogan was very poor in the AI semi-final. POTY should be consistently excellent in every game which Lacey was so hardly a question of justice.
Cluxton's kick-outs weren't quite at their best in the final. He kind of made up for that though...
Cluxton or Lacey in my book and Brogan, while very good, shouldn't get it.
Alan may have kicked four wides against Donegal (with 13 defenders hanging out of him) but was excellent in every other aspect of the game - winning ball, finding a teammate etc.
He was on the balll 25 times and gave the ball away once.
Lacey was average for the 42 minutes he was on the pitch against Dublin
Quote from: here comes 6 on September 29, 2011, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: 4father on September 27, 2011, 09:33:37 PM
Reckon Lacey has any chance? I have £2.50 on him at 150/1 with Paddy Power??? Might get the missus her Xmas present.
When you get him at that price
20/9/2011 - tried to post a snipping tool image of the bet but I dont know how to post an image from a file. Doubt he'll win it, think Cluxton will but £2.50 was worth a shot.
Alan Brogan played 6 championship matches in 2011 - got man of the match in 3 of them, lead the line for Dublin excellently in all 6 matches and was pivotal to Dublin's attacking play throughout AI final including kicking 2 super points! If that doesn't demonstrate consisyency I don't know what does?
Lacey is a fine player but will not come close. Darren O'Sullivan will push Brogan all the way while Cluxton is a dark horse if they decide to go for something different!
Lacey was consistently brilliant in every game. Brogan was not brilliant in every game. He was brilliant in some and good in others.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 30, 2011, 09:45:55 PM
Lacey was consistently brilliant in every game.
Lacey was brilliant in the 42 minutes of the semi-final?
Ummm... yes.
Minus the parts he could barely stand up.
P.S. Just to clarify this is not anti-dublin sentiment...
I think Cluxton should get it. However if Brogan gets it over Lacey I think it's a mistake.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 30, 2011, 09:50:47 PM
Ummm... yes.
Minus the parts he could barely stand up.
Have you any stats to back that up or is it a gut feeling? My memory of that game is of him not really being in the game.
He may well have been excellent against Div 3 Cavan but Brogan was excellent against team of the decade Kerry in the final.
Can you get stats to back up whether a player is brilliant in a game??
I believe he was very influential against Dublin. He dictated the way Donegal carried the ball out of defense and tackled excellently. Him going off was a major blow to Donegal.
Sure you could flip your argument for Lacey against division 3 cavan to brogan against division 3 wexford.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 30, 2011, 09:59:50 PM
Can you get stats to back up whether a player is brilliant in a game??
I believe he was very influential against Dublin. He dictated the way Donegal carried the ball out of defense and tackled excellently. Him going off was a major blow to Donegal.
Sure you could flip your argument for Lacey against division 3 cavan to brogan against division 3 wexford.
Well if you had stats available you could judge a player under certain kpi's - though clearly stats are only part of an overall picture.
We'll agree to disagree but Lacey played a half a game plus up to quarter final - Alan Brogan scored two, made two, had the ball 23 times and gave it away once in the final.
Lacey has no chance imo.
A KPI like having the ball doesn't mean much. Scored 2 and made two maybe but not having the ball.
Also defenders KPIs will never have the wow factor that a forwards will have so it's not a fair comparison. Karl Lacey won't have scored 2 and directly assisted 2 points in any game however he could well have been involved in setting up from about 5 passes back or dispossessions leading up to it. No stats will gather that info.
There are lies, damn lies and statistics. KPIs, in my view, are not that relevant for judging individuals against each other. They are in identifying weak areas for teams (e.g. kickouts won, turnover ball etc etc) but you can't compare forwards midfielders defenders and goalies with KPIs. It all really boils down to opinions.
I don't believe Lacey will win either however the fact he was injured in the semi or the fact that he wasn't in the final shouldn't really have that big a bearing on it. It probably will in the end but it shouldn't have.
Like I said I think Cluxton will win anyway.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 30, 2011, 10:15:56 PM
Like I said I think Cluxton will win anyway.
Agree with your points re stats - don't think Cluxton is a serious candidate no matter how deserving because of his unwillingness to co-operate with the media - especially since the awards have been merged with the GPA and Opel's involvement and the attendant responsibilities.
Yeah it's a pity it can pan out like that. Cluxton hugely influential on Dublin's gameplan - I doubt there ever has been a keeper as influential in a team. There hasn't been in my lifetime anyway.
He seemed to earn some brownie points for punching Jason McAteer - maybe he'll be ok and he's just levelled them out rather than go into the negative ;D
Think Lacey had a great year but Alan Brogan will win the big one . What age is Lacey? he will be key for 2012
Quote from: heffo on September 30, 2011, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 30, 2011, 08:15:37 PM
Alan Brogan was very poor in the AI semi-final. POTY should be consistently excellent in every game which Lacey was so hardly a question of justice.
Cluxton's kick-outs weren't quite at their best in the final. He kind of made up for that though...
Cluxton or Lacey in my book and Brogan, while very good, shouldn't get it.
Alan may have kicked four wides against Donegal (with 13 defenders hanging out of him) but was excellent in every other aspect of the game - winning ball, finding a teammate etc.
He was on the balll 25 times and gave the ball away once.
Lacey was average for the 42 minutes he was on the pitch against Dublin
Lacey was quiet enough in the semi final up until he was deliberately taken out of it after the ball was gone. Pretty hard to shine on one leg.
Quote from: oakleafgael on September 30, 2011, 11:14:19 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 30, 2011, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 30, 2011, 08:15:37 PM
Alan Brogan was very poor in the AI semi-final. POTY should be consistently excellent in every game which Lacey was so hardly a question of justice.
Cluxton's kick-outs weren't quite at their best in the final. He kind of made up for that though...
Cluxton or Lacey in my book and Brogan, while very good, shouldn't get it.
Alan may have kicked four wides against Donegal (with 13 defenders hanging out of him) but was excellent in every other aspect of the game - winning ball, finding a teammate etc.
He was on the balll 25 times and gave the ball away once.
Lacey was average for the 42 minutes he was on the pitch against Dublin
Lacey was quiet enough in the semi final up until he was deliberately taken out of it after the ball was gone.
Oh be to hokey, was there cynical play in that game? Can't say I noticed at all.
Well gaaboard winner Lacey didn't make the shortlist Alan Brogan,Stephen Cluxton and Darran O'Sullivan.
Saw that :) Had to smile. They are so populist. Cluxton, is he really a nominee for player of the year? Alan Brogan, yes, and he's the lad I think will win it. Darren O'Sullivan, fair enough, I can see the argument. Cluxton, I just can't see it. All Star, definitely a great chance, but POTY?
I wouldnt give Cluxton an all-star, never mind POTY, he had a stinker of a final other than the free. Completely populist decision, the lads picking these clearly just read headlines & scorers from match
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 12, 2011, 06:40:26 PM
I wouldnt give Cluxton an all-star, never mind POTY, he had a stinker of a final other than the free. Completely populist decision, the lads picking these clearly just read headlines & scorers from match
yea,watched the AF again last nite.some of Clucks ko's were very poor
the last 7 mins of the All-Ireland changed Alan Brogan from a 10/1 shot into a 4/9 shot for POTY. This cannot be right. Darren O'Sullivan scored the 2 best goals of the championship and was excellent throughout the whole year. Was even in line for Man of the match in the final until the final 7 mins. Brogan was quiet in the 1/4 final, poor in the semi final & average in the final. Brogan getting this award is on a par with Giggs getting POTY a few years ago. Bit of a joke. Cluxton is the same. Kerry keeper had a better year.
I'm genuinely stumped by the POTY this year. Alan Brogan doesn't deserve it (but will prob get it)..he was anonymous in the semi final and poor enough in the final aswell. Cluxton doesn't deserve it either. Karl Lacey would def have been nominated in a world where people picking these things have a clue (Brian McGuigan 2005 All Star anyone?)..but anyway. It doesn't really make a huge difference, but they'll prob give it to Brogan.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on October 13, 2011, 05:17:55 PM
Alan Brogan doesn't deserve it (but will prob get it)..he was anonymous in the semi final and poor enough in the final aswell.
From my post a couple of pages back, in the semi final v Donegal he was on the balll 25 times and gave the ball away once. With 13 players hanging out of him.
In the final v Kerry, he scored two points and made the goal, plus he was in possession 23 times and gave it away once.
He had more possession than any other Dublin player throughout the Championship, directly created 3-8 and scored 0-13 from a withdrawn role.
A worthy winner imo.
I'd be inclined to agree heffo. Karl Lacey was my pick for it, but if it's to go to a Dub, I'd pick Brogan. I thought he stepped up for them this year, moreso than d'brudder.
Quote from: heffo on October 13, 2011, 05:30:10 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on October 13, 2011, 05:17:55 PM
Alan Brogan doesn't deserve it (but will prob get it)..he was anonymous in the semi final and poor enough in the final aswell.
From my post a couple of pages back, in the semi final v Donegal he was on the balll 25 times and gave the ball away once. With 13 players hanging out of him.
In the final v Kerry, he scored two points and made the goal, plus he was in possession 23 times and gave it away once.
He had more possession than any other Dublin player throughout the Championship, directly created 3-8 and scored 0-13 from a withdrawn role.
A worthy winner imo.
That stat is not giving a clear picture if thats the case...he kicked a couple of terrible wides in that game. Being on the ball (i.e: in possession) doesn't mean anything in Gaelic football, its what you do with it..
"He made the goal"..what does that mean? He gave a simple handpass to a guy who did the real hard bit and finished it?..So what? He kicked one great score in the final, but apart from that had little impact on the game in my opinion and he certainly had little impact on the semi final if you watch it again.
I'm not looking for an argument and It doesn't really matter anyway as there is no outstanding candidate like there usually is, so you can make a case for a few players. I really hope that Kevin McMenamin gets some recognition in Dublin (or maybe a start next year?) as his contributions in the semi and final are what got Dublin over the line both days really.
There is a term used by some of those RTE pundits - "shot selection"...
Alan Brogan's, independent of any stats, in the first half of that Donegal game was brutal. In my view he had a bit of a stinker and based on that shouldn't get player of the year.
He was brilliant rest of the year and made a big impact on the final but in my view one(really) bad game does not merit inclusion for player of the year. Cluxton / Lacey.
I'd strongly disagree with those saying brogan had a poor semi final he was very good in fact. The way Donegal played meant that all the Dublin forwards had it tough but he saw plenty of ball and did a lot of good with it. I wouldn't hang a forward for having a few wides. He was also pretty good in the final and certainly better than average in the QF. A worthy winner IMO.
I bet Alan Brogan would be the first to admit he played better other years & didn't get nominated for POTY & no doubt he'll thank his team mates for this years award.
It's a funny year for it - there were no real standouts.
Brogan, in my opinion, shouldn't get it but that is just my opinion. He definitely was not player of the year material in the semi final though.
Darren O'Sullivan was very influential as was Karl Lacey. It was a real shame seeing him go off in the semi final. I don't think we'd be having this discussion had he not.
Cluxton's coolness, perhaps robot likeness, under pressure and his ability to make life so much easier for dublin midfielders with his kickouts makes him, in my view,a better option than Brogan.
Quote from: ross4life on October 13, 2011, 10:27:17 PM
I bet Alan Brogan would be the first to admit he played better other years & didn't get nominated for POTY & no doubt he'll thank his team mates for this years award.
No stand out candidate this year. Brogan was good but not great. Still might be enough for him to pick it up seeing as Dublin won the AI.
Cluxton will get it. Feckin' joke.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2011, 01:32:13 PM
Cluxton will get it. Feckin' joke.
Hey Benny.
Dublin:All Ireland Football Champions 2011
Hows about them for apples? you Orchard c**t!
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on October 14, 2011, 02:14:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2011, 01:32:13 PM
Cluxton will get it. Feckin' joke.
Hey Benny.
Dublin:All Ireland Football Champions 2011
Hows about them for apples? you Orchard c**t!
To be honest, that attitude is the same that I witnessed in Croke Park this year from Dubs like yourself. You disgraced our game, and you disgraced your county. Now you've just confirmed it to everyone again what the Dubs are like.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2011, 02:34:55 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on October 14, 2011, 02:14:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2011, 01:32:13 PM
Cluxton will get it. Feckin' joke.
Hey Benny.
Dublin:All Ireland Football Champions 2011
Hows about them for apples? you Orchard c**t!
To be honest, that attitude is the same that I witnessed in Croke Park this year from Dubs like yourself. You disgraced our game, and you disgraced your county. Now you've just confirmed it to everyone again what the Dubs are like.
Earth to Benny: Get a life.
QuoteNow you've just confirmed it to everyone again what the Dubs are like.
Yep we're all the same ???
Alan Brogan had a great year... Dublin's best player by a distance and deserves to be nominated. But when you compare what he did to what Darren O'Sullivan did he is a good bit behind imo
People using terms like, good and well for the Player of the Year performances pretty much sums it up. Lacey was outstanding in every game I saw him in and stood out like a sore thumb but having to go off injured definitely cost him. It's a toss up really but the poster of 2 brothers winning POTY 2 years running will be too hard to resist methinks!
Quote from: bombidal on October 14, 2011, 03:40:19 PM
Alan Brogan had a great year... Dublin's best player by a distance and deserves to be nominated. But when you compare what he did to what Darren O'Sullivan did he is a good bit behind imo
Both behind Lacey though. Its a shame that those who are meant to have a clue are actually the ones that don't.
Quote from: screenexile on October 14, 2011, 03:55:08 PM
People using terms like, good and well for the Player of the Year performances pretty much sums it up. Lacey was outstanding in every game I saw him in and stood out like a sore thumb but having to go off injured definitely cost him. It's a toss up really but the poster of 2 brothers winning POTY 2 years running will be too hard to resist methings!
I agree with most of what you say but he wasn't outstanding against Tyrone.
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 14, 2011, 03:56:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 14, 2011, 03:55:08 PM
People using terms like, good and well for the Player of the Year performances pretty much sums it up. Lacey was outstanding in every game I saw him in and stood out like a sore thumb but having to go off injured definitely cost him. It's a toss up really but the poster of 2 brothers winning POTY 2 years running will be too hard to resist methings!
I agree with most of what you say but he wasn't outstanding against Tyrone.
Lol I didn't see the Tyrone game!
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 14, 2011, 03:56:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 14, 2011, 03:55:08 PM
People using terms like, good and well for the Player of the Year performances pretty much sums it up. Lacey was outstanding in every game I saw him in and stood out like a sore thumb but having to go off injured definitely cost him. It's a toss up really but the poster of 2 brothers winning POTY 2 years running will be too hard to resist methings!
I agree with most of what you say but he wasn't outstanding against Tyrone.
He was outstanding v Tyrone.
My pick would be Stephen Cluxton. He is ice-cool and his composure permeates the whole team. The full-back line can concentrate on their own jobs without worrying about who's minding the house behind them. The half-backs, midfield and half-forwards can expect well directed balls - this has been the launching-pad for many Dublin attacks. And, of course, his accuracy from long-range frees has been a huge differential for the Dubs this year.
Stevo for Player of the Year.
Quote from: bombidal on October 13, 2011, 05:14:31 PM
the last 7 mins of the All-Ireland changed Alan Brogan from a 10/1 shot into a 4/9 shot for POTY. This cannot be right. Darren O'Sullivan scored the 2 best goals of the championship and was excellent throughout the whole year. Was even in line for Man of the match in the final until the final 7 mins. Brogan was quiet in the 1/4 final, poor in the semi final & average in the final. Brogan getting this award is on a par with Giggs getting POTY a few years ago. Bit of a joke. Cluxton is the same. Kerry keeper had a better year.
Were you at that game?
Quote from: screenexile on October 14, 2011, 03:55:08 PM
People using terms like, good and well for the Player of the Year performances pretty much sums it up. Lacey was outstanding in every game I saw him in and stood out like a sore thumb but having to go off injured definitely cost him. It's a toss up really but the poster of 2 brothers winning POTY 2 years running will be too hard to resist methinks!
I don't think Alan Brogan was merely 'good' or 'well' in most games he played, he was excellent in most of them and was easily as good as Lacey all year (better IMO). He didn't have one bad game and anyone who says he did is either judging him by ridiculous standards or is a questionable judge of footballers. Another point worth noting is that Lacey played as a defender in an ultra defensive team which meant he was less likely to be exposed (not saying he would in any system but it's easier to defend and break to attack when you've got 10 other lads behind you) and O'Sullivan played against a depleted Limerick twice and a young Mayo team so he didn't meet as many quality teams as Brogan. He played against Kildare, Tyrone, Donegal and Kerry and played well (there's that word again!) in them all.
You could argue all day about this and a case can be made for other players but anyone who dismisses Brogans claims doesn't know their football IMO.
Zulu he had a poor game by a) his own standards and b) the standards you would expect for player of the year.
That is my opinion - I thought at one stage he may have got subbed however he improved in the second half. (Incidentally that was when Lacey went off).
Saying someone who believes that has high standards may be correct - but the standard here is for the player of the year. Saying someone who says that doesn't know anything about football is a weak argument. Player of the year is of a very high standard don't forget.
I have nothing against the fella. He's a cracking footballer in my view and has adapted very well to the CHF position. I just would expect the player of the year to meet , exceptional, standards in every game and didn't think he did.
I know it's a matter of opinion but I really don't think either of the Dublin players deserve the award.
I mentioned it somewhere after the senior final that Kerry went man for man on the Dublin kickout's and they at the very least broke even.
The hype that surrounds Cluxton really is incredible. Don't get me wrong he is an absolutely fantastic goalkeeper but to be in contention for player of the year? I'm just not convinced. I don't remember him making that many saves either this year...
Brogan was hot and cold in patches but its difficult to pick out a Dublin player because they rely so much on the collective rather than the individual.
O'Sullivan for me was the standout forward of the year. He scored two unbelievable goals and I saw him live in the three games they played in Croke Park and he is a pure entertainer. Everytime he gets the ball you expect something to happen going forward.. His pace in unbelievable.
After him, my vote would have been for Lacey. Unless you seen Donegal play live you can't possibly appreciate the role he played in Donegal's system. You need to have seen it up close. He was an excellent defender and as soon as their mass defence forced the turnover time and time again he was the launchpad of attacks.
Agreed put it up again...
Darran O'Sullivan shades it for me ahead of Lacey.
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 14, 2011, 09:06:42 PM
I know it's a matter of opinion but I really don't think either of the Dublin players deserve the award.
I mentioned it somewhere after the senior final that Kerry went man for man on the Dublin kickout's and they at the very least broke even.
The hype that surrounds Cluxton really is incredible. Don't get me wrong he is an absolutely fantastic goalkeeper but to be in contention for player of the year? I'm just not convinced. I don't remember him making that many saves either this year...
Brogan was hot and cold in patches but its difficult to pick out a Dublin player because they rely so much on the collective rather than the individual.
O'Sullivan for me was the standout forward of the year. He scored two unbelievable goals and I saw him live in the three games they played in Croke Park and he is a pure entertainer. Everytime he gets the ball you expect something to happen going forward.. His pace in unbelievable.
After him, my vote would have been for Lacey. Unless you seen Donegal play live you can't possibly
appreciate the role he played in Donegal's system. You need to have seen it up close. He was an excellent defender and as soon as their mass defence forced the turnover time and time again he was the launchpad of attacks.
Surely Donegal was more of a collective effort than Dublin?
I think we all agree it's a matter of opinion and you'd expect a bit of debate most years but it's brogan for me and deservedly so. After that I'd have O'Sullivan and then Lacey, Cluxton wouldn't be in my list tbh.
Defo Darren O'Sullivan.
Lacey was outstanding too and shame he got injured.
Alan Brogan never once excited me--first time ever came into my head re him possibly being POTY was when his brother ssaid it live on TV
Would rather Cluxton won it than Brogan but think Brogan will win it, undeservedly.
DOS was class--some goal v Cork--it he was a better goalscorer he could've had a few more that day. Unbelieveable goal v Limerick. Made goal in final. Awesome pace lifted me off my seat on many occassions this year. For me he's my player of the year.
Pity thought that he's a scorer of great goals rather than a great goalscorer. With his pace he's going to create goal scoring opportunitiess--if he could just relax and roll the ball into the corners he'd score far more than he does now with his blast it straight at the net and see how it goes approach
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Wouldn't agree with that. One of the main reason Kerry eventually began pulling away in that game was all the frees O'Sullivan won in the 2nd half. At one stage he must have won 3 or 4 on the trot all in scoreable positions.
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2011, 02:34:55 PM
To be honest, that attitude is the same that I witnessed in Croke Park this year from Dubs like yourself. You disgraced our game, and you disgraced your county. Now you've just confirmed it to everyone again what the Dubs are like.
Your main contributions to this site are to spit poisonous bile at Dublin football and its supporters at every oppurtunity. Well all your bitterness can't change the fact that we've got Sam and your lot are franky an irrelevance.
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on October 15, 2011, 01:17:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2011, 02:34:55 PM
To be honest, that attitude is the same that I witnessed in Croke Park this year from Dubs like yourself. You disgraced our game, and you disgraced your county. Now you've just confirmed it to everyone again what the Dubs are like.
Your main contributions to this site are to spit poisonous bile at Dublin football and its supporters at every oppurtunity. Well all your bitterness can't change the fact that we've got Sam and your lot are franky an irrelevance.
I'm not bitter. I'm telling it like it is. And if I've said something about Dublin fans, it because it needed to be said. Just as I would say anything about other counties if it was needed.
U keep going on about Dublin winning the all Ireland. Big deal. The way you're going on is that you think nobody outside if Dublin should have any sort an opinion because they're not the all Ireland champions!
And if you care to read other threads, i think you'll find i've commented on quite a few. And they weren't Dublin related. So cop yourself on.
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
Right so don't give it to an outstanding defender or it's a reward for negativity.
Donegal may have played negatively but there were outstanding individual defensive contributions from McGee, Cassidy and Lacey. The allstars should reflect this though whether or not player of the year does remains to be seen.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2011, 02:32:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
Right so don't give it to an outstanding defender or it's a reward for negativity.
Donegal may have played negatively but there were outstanding individual defensive contributions from McGee, Cassidy and Lacey. The allstars should reflect this though whether or not player of the year does remains to be seen.
Don't pretend my argument was something it wasn't. I played as a defender myself and have no problem with a defender winning the award. Most defenders don't have the luxury of 7 spare defenders to help out, that is simply my point.
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
So the player of the year is now also a team award?
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
So the player of the year is now also a team award?
Where did I say that?
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
So the player of the year is now also a team award?
Where did I say that?
Are you not dismissing Lacey from consideration because you don't want to reward his team's "negativity"? Is the logical conclusion not that you might rate him if he played on a side that was more aesthetically pleasing from your perspective?
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 02:47:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2011, 02:32:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
Right so don't give it to an outstanding defender or it's a reward for negativity.
Donegal may have played negatively but there were outstanding individual defensive contributions from McGee, Cassidy and Lacey. The allstars should reflect this though whether or not player of the year does remains to be seen.
Don't pretend my argument was something it wasn't. I played as a defender myself and have no problem with a defender winning the award. Most defenders don't have the luxury of 7 spare defenders to help out, that is simply my point.
Lacey's best work came when Donegal were in possession and going forward. I don't get how he was helped in this regard by the number of defenders left behind him.
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 03:04:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
So the player of the year is now also a team award?
Where did I say that?
Are you not dismissing Lacey from consideration because you don't want to reward his team's "negativity"? Is the logical conclusion not that you might rate him if he played on a side that was more aesthetically pleasing from your perspective?
I am dismissing him from consideration mainly because in his primary function he received assistance from so many other players. Anyone could defend with that much help and anyone can be an attacking defender when you don't have to worry about your man. That is not to say he didn't have a good year, he obviously did. But not enough for POTY in my opinion. Is that ok by you?
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 03:13:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 03:04:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: put-it-up-again on October 15, 2011, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Darran O'Sullivan scored 0-1 against Mayo the semi-final. Other than two early goal chances (both missed) he was well marked by Keith Higgins and had little influence.
Brogan did more in his semi-final than either O'Sullivan or Lacy. Debatable who did more in the final, I'd suggest probably O'Sullivan.
I'd give it to Brogan with O'Sullivan a worthy winner if he gets the nod. Giving it to Lacey would be rewarding everything that is wrong with football, not Lacey's fault I might add, but why should we reward 13 man defenses?
Take the point about O'Sullivan in the semi-final but still think in the grand scheme of things he was the best individual this year.
Anybody that thinks that is all Lacey was about this year is extremely naive. I saw him play against Cavan, Tyrone, Kildare and Dublin and he is alot more than just a defender relying on those around him. His engine is unreal and as soon as the ball was turned over he was more often than not the man that carried the ball and got it going forward. He was involved and set up a lot of scores.
I remember against Cavan in particular, Seanie Johnston spent more time running after Karl Lacey than the other way around.
Lacey deserves more respect that somebody saying 'sure he had 12 lads around him'.
I'd rather give the award to someone that played against 13 men than one of the 13 men. The 13 man defense wasn't Lacey's fault so I am not attacking him personally, but why would we reward such negativity?
So the player of the year is now also a team award?
Where did I say that?
Are you not dismissing Lacey from consideration because you don't want to reward his team's "negativity"? Is the logical conclusion not that you might rate him if he played on a side that was more aesthetically pleasing from your perspective?
I am dismissing him from consideration mainly because in his primary function he received assistance from so many other players. Anyone could defend with that much help and anyone can be an attacking defender when you don't have to worry about your man. That is not to say he didn't have a good year, he obviously did. But not enough for POTY in my opinion. Is that ok by you?
So basically Jim McGuinness could have thrown any player into Lacey's role and the outcome would have been the same?
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 03:37:21 PM
So basically Jim McGuinness could have thrown any player into Lacey's role and the outcome would have been the same?
Can you come up with your own argument instead of trying to put words in my mouth?
Quote from: Gold on October 15, 2011, 11:08:19 AM
Defo Darren O'Sullivan.
Alan Brogan never once excited me--first time ever came into my head re him possibly being POTY was when his brother ssaid it live on TV
You do know A Brogan won three man of the match awards.
Quote from: heffo on October 15, 2011, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: Gold on October 15, 2011, 11:08:19 AM
Defo Darren O'Sullivan.
Alan Brogan never once excited me--first time ever came into my head re him possibly being POTY was when his brother ssaid it live on TV
You do know A Brogan won three man of the match awards.
Which matches & who gave out the awards?
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 15, 2011, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 15, 2011, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: Gold on October 15, 2011, 11:08:19 AM
Defo Darren O'Sullivan.
Alan Brogan never once excited me--first time ever came into my head re him possibly being POTY was when his brother ssaid it live on TV
You do know A Brogan won three man of the match awards.
Which matches & who gave out the awards?
Kildare, Laois & Wexford - Sunday game gave him man of the match. They're the recognised benchmark.
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 03:55:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 03:37:21 PM
So basically Jim McGuinness could have thrown any player into Lacey's role and the outcome would have been the same?
Can you come up with your own argument instead of trying to put words in my mouth?
You said anyone could do what Lacey did, did you not?
I'm saying Lacey was Donegal's best and lynchpin player this year and without him we would not have had the run we did. We would have likely been just another team who tried the defensive system to compensate for other frailties and failed. Instead we went from being winless in Ulster for four years to what turned out to be a relatively comfortable Ulster title. Without Lacey, that would not have happened, which doesn't even touch on his performance v Kildare. To dismiss him or Donegal in general as a team who merely crowded their own half is wildly simplistic and biased.
Now I've no problem with the lads who were nominated. A strong case can be made on all three behalfs, even Cluxton. When there's only three nominations, someone has to lose out. I do have a problem with a player who performed as Lacey did being dismissed out of hand as not being even worthy of consideration.
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 03:55:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2011, 03:37:21 PM
So basically Jim McGuinness could have thrown any player into Lacey's role and the outcome would have been the same?
Can you come up with your own argument instead of trying to put words in my mouth?
You said anyone could do what Lacey did, did you not?
I'm saying Lacey was Donegal's best and lynchpin player this year and without him we would not have had the run we did. We would have likely been just another team who tried the defensive system to compensate for other frailties and failed. Instead we went from being winless in Ulster for four years to what turned out to be a relatively comfortable Ulster title. Without Lacey, that would not have happened, which doesn't even touch on his performance v Kildare. To dismiss him or Donegal in general as a team who merely crowded their own half is wildly simplistic and biased.
Now I've no problem with the lads who were nominated. A strong case can be made on all three behalfs, even Cluxton. When there's only three nominations, someone has to lose out. I do have a problem with a player who performed as Lacey did being dismissed out of hand as not being even worthy of consideration.
I am not biased against Donegal. I just hate watching them the way they played this year.
I said anyone could defend with that much help. That is not the same thing as saying anyone could play like Lacey did.
rinsed.
Quote from: boojangles on October 14, 2011, 06:55:44 PM
Quote from: bombidal on October 13, 2011, 05:14:31 PM
the last 7 mins of the All-Ireland changed Alan Brogan from a 10/1 shot into a 4/9 shot for POTY. This cannot be right. Darren O'Sullivan scored the 2 best goals of the championship and was excellent throughout the whole year. Was even in line for Man of the match in the final until the final 7 mins. Brogan was quiet in the 1/4 final, poor in the semi final & average in the final. Brogan getting this award is on a par with Giggs getting POTY a few years ago. Bit of a joke. Cluxton is the same. Kerry keeper had a better year.
Were you at that game?
no I was not at the game
I was reading an article yesterday about how Brogan deserved Player Of The Year. The journalist tried to show that Brogan had a massive influence in the final by saying he played in the McManamon for the winning goal. He is factually correct but it was a run of the mill handpass that wasn't gift wrapped with a goal chance, McManamon had to beat a few men to score the goal and it was basically all his own work. Its a bit like trying to say that Stephen O'Neill had a big hand in Mulligans goal in 2005, when all he did was pass it to him and Mulligan had to do all the work.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 01, 2011, 12:17:25 PM
I was reading an article yesterday about how Brogan deserved Player Of The Year. The journalist tried to show that Brogan had a massive influence in the final by saying he played in the McManamon for the winning goal. He is factually correct but it was a run of the mill handpass that wasn't gift wrapped with a goal chance, McManamon had to beat a few men to score the goal and it was basically all his own work. Its a bit like trying to say that Stephen O'Neill had a big hand in Mulligans goal in 2005, when all he did was pass it to him and Mulligan had to do all the work.
Let it go Nrico. Let it go.