What defence will be trotted out this time? Can this be part of their culture as well?
I suppose I'm being racist now, seeing as they have their own unique ethnicity ::)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14871318 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14871318)
Five arrests in 'slavery' raid at Greenacre travellers' site
It is thought some had been kept against their will for up to 15 years
Twenty-four men suspected of being held against their will have been found during a raid at a travellers' site.
Four men and a woman were arrested on suspicion of committing slavery offences in the raid at Greenacre travellers' site, Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, on Sunday.
The men, who are English, Polish and Romanian, were found in "filthy and cramped" conditions, police said.
Detectives believe some may have been there for up to 15 years.
"They were told they could not leave and if they did they would be beaten up and attacked"
Those arrested are being held on suspicion of committing offences under the Slavery and Servitude Act 2010.
They are being held at police stations across Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire.
Weapons, drugs and money were also found at the site, police said.
More than 200 officers were involved in the raids.
'Shockingly filthy conditions'
The men, all believed to have been victims of slavery, were taken initially to an undisclosed medical centre for treatment.
Shed at Greenacre travellers site The men were kept in appalling conditions, police said
They have been placed in the care of the local authority.
Det Ch Insp Sean O'Neil said: "The men we found at the site were in a poor state of physical health and the conditions they were living in were shockingly filthy and cramped.
"We believe that some of them had been living and working there in a state of virtual slavery, some for just a few weeks and others for up to 15 years."
He added that the men appeared to have been "recruited" from soup kitchens and benefits offices and included people with problems such as alcoholism.
He said: "They're recruited and told if you come here we'll pay you £80 a day, we'll look after you give you board and lodgings.
"But when they get here, their hair is cut off them, they're kept in in some cases [in] horseboxes, dog kennels and old caravans, made to work for no money, given very, very small amounts of food.
"That's the worse case. Some are treated a little bit better, but they were told they could not leave and if they did they would be beaten up and attacked.
"But in fact some people did leave and told us what was going on and when we looked back since 2008 we were aware of 28 people who had made similar accusations."
Police have appealed for help and ask anyone with any information to contact them in confidence.
During the operation, Bedfordshire Police were assisted by officers from the UK Human Trafficking Centre.
Police joined forces with dog handling sections, helicopter and firearms support units, to execute search warrants at the traveller site.
Look at people individually, not what they are. The people involved are bad people, just like the thousands involved in such things across Ireland. I'd say an awful lot of them are your bog standard next door neighbour type Irish people.
Nevertheless, you seem well chuffed with yourself. Kinda the same way a white american racist might be if he caught a black man trying to steal his car.
Quote from: 4father on September 11, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
Look at people individually, not what they are. The people involved are bad people, just like the thousands involved in such things across Ireland. I'd say an awful lot of them are your bog standard next door neighbour type Irish people.
Nevertheless, you seem well chuffed with yourself. Kinda the same way a white american racist might be if he caught a black man trying to steal his car.
Would you? You think an awful lot of them are in full time employment, have no criminal record and pay their taxes?
Saying it's just a few bad eggs is the standard excuse whenever another traveller story makes the headlines. There have been far too many bad egg stories for that excuse to work anymore. It's about time there were less excuses made, and more of an effort made to treat traveller's the same as 'your bog standard next door neighbour'.
I'm not chuffed with myself, it has nothing to do with me. I'm surpised, even a bit shocked, but it just goes to reinforce my impression of this 'community'. I've had many experiences with travellers, and can count the positive ones on one hand.
Don't think I could say that about any other race/nationality/social group.
Quote from: 4father on September 11, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
Look at people individually, not what they are. The people involved are bad people, just like the thousands involved in such things across Ireland. I'd say an awful lot of them are your bog standard next door neighbour type Irish people.
Nevertheless, you seem well chuffed with yourself. Kinda the same way a white american racist might be if he caught a black man trying to steal his car.
By them, i didn't mean travellers, i meant like the thousands of people involved in such things across Ireland being your bog standard next door neighbour type.
Quote from: Tubberman on September 11, 2011, 07:52:58 PM
Would you? You think an awful lot of them are in full time employment, have no criminal record and pay their taxes?
Saying it's just a few bad eggs is the standard excuse whenever another traveller story makes the headlines. There have been far too many bad egg stories for that excuse to work anymore. It's about time there were less excuses made, and more of an effort made to treat traveller's the same as 'your bog standard next door neighbour'.
I'm not chuffed with myself, it has nothing to do with me. I'm surpised, even a bit shocked, but it just goes to reinforce my impression of this 'community'. I've had many experiences with travellers, and can count the positive ones on one hand.
Don't think I could say that about any other race/nationality/social group.
Let's face it, you are a bigot and it's very clear that you are. They aren't a race or a nationality you idiot, they are as Irish as you and me. Your logic is like saying that all Germans are scum because of the Nazi's. If one individual does something bad, then that one individual needs brought to book, not his 10 year old son or his 80 year old granny. I live not too far away from a travelling community and have had varied experiences, the same way I live next door to a maniac Irishman and at the other side, a lovely old couple who play with their grand kids in the garden.
So do you think they are born to be horrible? Should we burn them out or tell them to go, move, shift?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USF71Wubq6U&feature=related
Quote from: 4father on September 11, 2011, 08:09:15 PM
Let's face it, you are a bigot and it's very clear that you are. They aren't a race or a nationality you idiot, they are as Irish as you and me. Your logic is like saying that all Germans are scum because of the Nazi's. If one individual does something bad, then that one individual needs brought to book, not his 10 year old son or his 80 year old granny. I live not too far away from a travelling and have had varied experiences, the same way I live next door to a maniac Irishman and at the other side, a lovely old couple who play with their grand kids in the garden.
So do you think they are born to be horrible? Should we burn them out or tell them to go, move, shift?
I'm not a bigot, but if anyone criticises the travellers, that's the label they're given.
Neither am I an idiot - the traveller's are trying to get themselves recognised as an ethnic group. I was just making the comparison with other races and nationalities to show that I don't generally tar whole populations with the one brush - but I have had overwhelmingly negative experiences with travellers.
I definitely don't think they are born to be horrible - I think the lifestyle they live is a product of their upbringing and the easy ride they get from the authorities - social welfare, gardaí etc
And I never mentioned, nor do I support, "burning them out" or "tell them to go, move, shift". Stop putting words in my mouth and being hysterical.
I would like to see them integrated into normal society, but for that to happen a lot of things would have to change, which is probably goiing off topic.
Yes attitudes like yours would need to change.
99% of travellers get the rest of them a bad name.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 11, 2011, 08:42:02 PM
Not much point in using the actions of a handful of evil c**ts in isolation to tar a large community on its own, whatever the reputation it may or may not have. A bit like using Josef Fritzl as a prime example of Austrian fatherhood.
and tarring is what they do..
Any significance in the timing of this action? Especially in view of the apparent public support for the residents on Dale Farm?
id hope you're not suggesting that police knew there was people being held as slaves and they didnt nothing about it until it was the right PR time... ;)
Quote from: All of a Sludden on September 11, 2011, 09:37:41 PM
99% of travellers get the rest of them a bad name.
If you had 1000 of them camped next to you do you think 10 of them would be nice people?
There is no such thing as a good traveller.
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ludermor/Uncle_matt.jpg)
Where is it said they are Irish travellers?
Evil people who carried this out.
In terms of ethnicity, what is the origin of the traveller ? I've heard different versions some that they go back to the dawn of time another that they were people displaced during the famine and just kept on the road.
The minority of travellers are decent.
Quote from: boojangles on September 12, 2011, 11:59:36 AM
The minority of travellers are decent.
Any I have experienced are up to no good. Always on the look out for what they can steel or else on the scrounge. Good for nothing and any time they come about our area they are 'moved on' and rightly so.
I have yet to meet any of this minority.
This thread is sickening. Irish Travellers are a specific race and you lot are being racist. Would you paint the same picture about another race? No, but it's acceptable in this case.
Shame on you all.
Quote from: ziggysego on September 12, 2011, 01:08:14 PM
This thread is sickening. Irish Travellers are a specific race and you lot are being racist. Would you paint the same picture about another race? No, but it's acceptable in this case.
Shame on you all.
I know you always like to take the moral high ground Ziggy but people can only speak from their own experiences. All of my experiences with 'Travellers' have been negative. And the negativity is always due to them being up to some sort of no good.
Quote from: Tubberman on September 11, 2011, 07:26:00 PM
What defence will be trotted out this time? Can this be part of their culture as well?
I don't know. What defences have been trotted out this time?
Quote from: EC Unique on September 12, 2011, 01:24:24 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 12, 2011, 01:08:14 PM
This thread is sickening. Irish Travellers are a specific race and you lot are being racist. Would you paint the same picture about another race? No, but it's acceptable in this case.
Shame on you all.
I know you always like to take the moral high ground Ziggy but people can only speak from their own experiences. All of my experiences with 'Travellers' have been negative. And the negativity is always due to them being up to some sort of no good.
They are never up to any good.
Quote from: ziggysego on September 12, 2011, 01:08:14 PM
This thread is sickening. Irish Travellers are a specific race and you lot are being racist. Would you paint the same picture about another race? No, but it's acceptable in this case.
Shame on you all.
Aside from the rest of the argument, which I am going to stay away from with a barge pole. I for the life of me cannot understand how they are a different race, they are just Irish people who refuse to live in a permanent form of accommodation. Not a race or even a different ethnicity. Ziggy they may be being bigoted (not saying either way) but they are not being racist.
Quote from: EC Unique on September 12, 2011, 12:58:17 PM
Quote from: boojangles on September 12, 2011, 11:59:36 AM
The minority of travellers are decent.
Any I have experienced are up to no good. Always on the look out for what they can steel or else on the scrounge. Good for nothing and any time they come about our area they are 'moved on' and rightly so.
I have yet to meet any of this minority.
Tongue in cheek EC. :P
From my own experiences, for every decent traveller there are 20 wrong ones. As everybody else alludes to on the thread, you can only base your opinions on your experiences. And I have nothing but bad ones.
There not a different race there a different breed! we talk, they bark!
Over the last twelve years I probably have taught over 1000 pupils in some form or another. Two really stand out for their impeccible manners and moral attitude beyond their age. Both were from the travelling community.
A Traveller named Pa Connors gets work at a sporting-goods shop.
The boss is with him on the first day.
A customer comes in looking for a tennis racket. The boss asks "is that for clay, grass, or tarmac?"
The customer tells the boss what he wants and buys the proper racket.
"That's easy,I have the hang of it now" says Pa so the boss lets him work alone.
A customer comes in soon after and says..."Would ya have a baseball bat?"
"Is that for a wedding or a funeral you want it?" asks Pa.
A Guard picks up a nurse one night in Copper Face Jacks, he takes her home and shags her.
The cop was kind enough to drop her home next morning....
Passing a halting site in Finglas the nurse says "You can just drop me here" ..
"Yea lying little bitch" said the Guard "You told me you were a nurse"...
"No" she says, "I told you I was one of the Ward sisters".....
Quote from: ONeill on September 12, 2011, 06:39:45 PM
Over the last twelve years I probably have taught over 1000 pupils in some form or another. Two really stand out for their impeccible manners and moral attitude beyond their age. Both were from the travelling community.
The other 998 must have been some boys. Did you get a nice bit of carpet at Christmas?
it's a regular scam over here if you're in the know. those involved in it have been known to prey on the destitute and vulnerable: those with mental health problems or immigrants struggling to find a job and get a foothold. promises of work and big money. homeless hostels are targetted mainly to get what they want. staff working in hostels have been told to be on the lookout for it.
The last type of socially acceptable bigotry it seems.
Quote from: cadence on September 12, 2011, 09:02:52 PM
it's a regular scam over here if you're in the know. those involved in it have been known to prey on the destitute and vulnerable: those with mental health problems or immigrants struggling to find a job and get a foothold. promises of work and big money. homeless hostels are targetted mainly to get what they want. staff working in hostels have been told to be on the lookout for it.
How would one get to be
in the know in this type of situation?
Bloody gypos.
Many end up being up to no good because society tells them from the day they are born that they are no good because they are travellers.
They are denied access to proper education, most get shunned or bullied throughout their school life and therefore most drop out by the age of 13 or 14. They are denied the same employment opportunities as the rest of us and again get shunned or treated like pariahs when they are lucky enough to gain employment.
The opportunities for traveller children and young adults are every bit as limited as they were for black children in Johannesburg in the 1980s.
I know that travellers are looking for ethnic minority status. On what grounds are they looking for this, I mean how are they building a case for this? I would have thougth that to be discriminated against was not sufficient evidence for a case! How do they have it in England and not here? the implications are huge for them though as if they get it..then there is a huge legal framework for them to use! Interesting times ahead I would say!
Quote from: under the bar on September 12, 2011, 10:17:56 PM
Many end up being up to no good because society tells them from the day they are born that they are no good because they are travellers.
They are denied access to proper education, most get shunned or bullied throughout their school life and therefore most drop out by the age of 13 or 14. They are denied the same employment opportunities as the rest of us and again get shunned or treated like pariahs when they are lucky enough to gain employment.
The opportunities for traveller children and young adults are every bit as limited as they were for black children in Johannesburg in the 1980s.
Bullshit. They generally have no interest in living in mainstream life, which is fine if that's what they want, but don't try to lay the blame for some traveller's actions at anyone's door but their own!
Quote from: under the bar on September 12, 2011, 10:17:56 PM
Many end up being up to no good because society tells them from the day they are born that they are no good because they are travellers.
They are denied access to proper education, most get shunned or bullied throughout their school life and therefore most drop out by the age of 13 or 14. They are denied the same employment opportunities as the rest of us and again get shunned or treated like pariahs when they are lucky enough to gain employment.
The opportunities for traveller children and young adults are every bit as limited as they were for black children in Johannesburg in the 1980s.
What a great post. +1
The right wingers are alive and well in Loais and Mayo and every fcukin where else it seems. How our forefathers who fought for equality must be turning in their graves.
Quote from: 4father on September 12, 2011, 11:26:45 PM
The right wingers are alive and well in Loais and Mayo and every fcukin where else it seems. How our forefathers who fought for equality must be turning in their graves.
They be turning in their graves at your pathetic attempt at spelling Laois..
Quote from: under the bar on September 12, 2011, 10:17:56 PM
Many end up being up to no good because society tells them from the day they are born that they are no good because they are travellers.
They are denied access to proper education, most get shunned or bullied throughout their school life and therefore most drop out by the age of 13 or 14. They are denied the same employment opportunities as the rest of us and again get shunned or treated like pariahs when they are lucky enough to gain employment.
The opportunities for traveller children and young adults are every bit as limited as they were for black children in Johannesburg in the 1980s.
Horseshit. I grew up in the middle of a fair sized town with a halting site 3 minutes walk away. Travellers don't get bullied, they bully. I know many young lads round my own age who were tormented by travellers. Individuals and gangs of travellers. They thrived on fear.
They had absolutely no interest in secondary school in my time as a school kid. Blame the parents or the kids themselves but I never knew any travellers who made it past primary school. Thats not societys fault, it's travellers own attitudes that is to blame. No ambition. Happy to sponge off the state while 'ducking and diving'. Most travellers would lose and find the rest of us when it comes to what their entitlements are. Alot of them consistently claiming benefits in numerous areas and jurisdictions.
Any traveller I know who is making anything of himself will distance himself from the rest.
Quote from: laoislad on September 12, 2011, 11:31:30 PM
Quote from: 4father on September 12, 2011, 11:26:45 PM
The right wingers are alive and well in Loais and Mayo and every fcukin where else it seems. How our forefathers who fought for equality must be turning in their graves.
They be turning in their graves at your pathetic attempt at spelling Laois..
Pathetic
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 12, 2011, 11:39:33 PM
Quote from: 4father on September 12, 2011, 11:26:45 PM
The right wingers are alive and well in Loais and Mayo and every fcukin where else it seems. How our forefathers who fought for equality must be turning in their graves.
So would you be happy if a halting site was built next to your house?
Ah the old 'would you like it if the niggers lived next door to you' argument. I have a maniac living next door who beats his wife and boozes like a skinhead, i think i would prefer the travelling community.
Honestly, I wouldnt mind. I know quite a few from where I live. Some bad and some very good exemplary citizens. But I'm not a right wing bigot.
Seriously there are more important things to be getting annoyed about but the fact that you choose to pick on a group of people who are discriminated against and who have had to look inwards and look after themselves because no-one else will when there are soooooooo many others to get angry at proves that you are bigots. It really is that simple.
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 12:06:28 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 12, 2011, 11:39:33 PM
Quote from: 4father on September 12, 2011, 11:26:45 PM
The right wingers are alive and well in Loais and Mayo and every fcukin where else it seems. How our forefathers who fought for equality must be turning in their graves.
So would you be happy if a halting site was built next to your house?
Ah the old 'would you like it if the niggers lived next door to you' argument. I have a maniac living next door who beats his wife and boozes like a skinhead, i think i would prefer the travelling community.
Honestly, I wouldnt mind. I know quite a few from where I live. Some bad and some very good exemplary citizens. But I'm not a right wing bigot.
Seriously there are more important things to be getting annoyed about but the fact that you choose to pick on a group of people who are discriminated against and who have had to look inwards and look after themselves because no-one else will when there are soooooooo many others to get angry at proves that you are bigots. It really is that simple.
Pull the other one. Most of them are well capable of helping themselves to what is not rightfully theirs. I'd safely say 80% to 90% of travellers I know have never had a job or set foot in an interview yet I still see some of them driving round in 2011 cars. Explain that to me? If I was unemployed and driving around in a 2011 car I'd be questioned by the Gardai.
All my experiences and encounters with the travelling community have been bad. So how can you possibly expect me not to have a bad opinion of travellers?
Because you are motivated by hatred and not concerned about their 2011 cars. I feel sorry for you that you are are still lumping everyone into the same bracket. Most of them, the majority of them etc. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? If only you could channel your hatred into something good or at least pick on someone your own size.
i started doing a bit of work at home a few years ago and built up a decent collection of tools after a couple of visits from travellers trying to sell me crap the place got robbed. about a week later i got a tip off where my stuff was so i rang the cops they said ther was nothing they could do because when they went to investigate the shed (rented by travellers) was locked and they couldnt see in. i told them i still had a grinder and ended up with a caution. i have a mate whos a fireman he cut the lock off and i got my stuff. when the cops tackled us about breaking into the travellers shed the mate told them he thought he smelt smoke.. about a week later we were told they wouldnt be pressing charges on us ::) after that my insurance went through the roof had to quit. i have trust issues when it comes to travellers.
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 12:50:58 AM
Because you are motivated by hatred and not concerned about their 2011 cars. I feel sorry for you that you are are still lumping everyone into the same bracket. Most of them, the majority of them etc. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? If only you could channel your hatred into something good or at least pick on someone your own size.
I'm glad I have your pity ::)
I judge everybody as I find them. Members of my family have been bullied by travellers, have had goods stolen by travellers, been assaulted by travellers. Should I just forget about this?
The Guards do nothing about most of their behaviour. They are a law to themselves around where I come from.
What experiences have you got dealing with Travellers?
Pick on somebody my own size? :D :D
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 12:50:58 AM
Because you are motivated by hatred and not concerned about their 2011 cars. I feel sorry for you that you are are still lumping everyone into the same bracket. Most of them, the majority of them etc. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? If only you could channel your hatred into something good or at least pick on someone your own size.
4Father is clearly a WUM (or maybe a kn**ker :D)
Best ignored. ;)
you're wasting your time 4father. some of these boys already know it all about crime and the causes of crime and are learned in the criminological theories.
Send for Nally.
The travellers caused havoc at graveyard Sunday a few years back in Dungannon - obviously trying to sort out some feud they nearly caused a riot, weilding knives and everything - to me this shows their lack of respect for all around them, doing this where people had gathered to respect their dead.
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 13, 2011, 12:23:28 PM
The travellers caused havoc at graveyard Sunday a few years back in Dungannon - obviously trying to sort out some feud they nearly caused a riot, weilding knives and everything - to me this shows their lack of respect for all around them, doing this where people had gathered to respect their dead.
Scummy ba$tards the lot of them.
As for the do-gooders on here calling us bigots I bet they would be the first ones looking them to move on if the caravans parked up beside their house and things started going missing.
As for the race issue, I highlighted earlier in the thread.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0829/travellers.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0829/travellers.html)
http://www.stevenroyedwards.com/goeswithoutsaying.html (http://www.stevenroyedwards.com/goeswithoutsaying.html)
Should the Cosa Nostra or Comorra in Italy be considered an ethnic racial group?
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 12:50:58 AM
Because you are motivated by hatred and not concerned about their 2011 cars. I feel sorry for you that you are are still lumping everyone into the same bracket. Most of them, the majority of them etc. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? If only you could channel your hatred into something good or at least pick on someone your own size.
"In all seriousness, yanks did it themselves - look at how they have benefited since. Cnuts"
The above posted by you on the 9/11 thread. You're the man for lecturing about hatred then.
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 13, 2011, 12:23:28 PM
The travellers caused havoc at graveyard Sunday a few years back in Dungannon - obviously trying to sort out some feud they nearly caused a riot, weilding knives and everything - to me this shows their lack of respect for all around them, doing this where people had gathered to respect their dead.
Any time they have a wedding or funeral round these parts whole towns have to close up for the day till they are gone.
They don't work legitimately, pay no taxes , collect benefits which the rest of us pay for, are into every scam going , no one is allowed to say boo to them , drive around in the dearest cars and jeeps despite having no visible means of support , treat their women like sh1te , have half the elderly people in the countryside frightened out of their wits etc etc. , not to mention this latest stuff from England.
Yet I'm a bigot while they are great. ::)
Do gooders eh ?
Imo you could drive a bus through the gaping holes in these allegations. Just does not make sense to me at all. Down and outs living a hand to mouth existence on a site maybe, Slavery hmmmmmm!
Quote from: Canalman on September 13, 2011, 02:22:43 PM
Imo you could drive a bus through the gaping holes in these allegations. Just does not make sense to me at all. Down and outs living a hand to mouth existence on a site maybe, Slavery hmmmmmm!
While I am thin on sympathy these days since the Traveller representatives tried to portray Froggie Ward as a model father, I agree with Canalman. We might need to wait a bit more on this particular case.
God knows the British authorities have been very quick to jump to conclusions in the past, especially where Irish or any foreigners are involved.
Quote from: muppet on September 13, 2011, 03:56:38 PM
Quote from: Canalman on September 13, 2011, 02:22:43 PM
Imo you could drive a bus through the gaping holes in these allegations. Just does not make sense to me at all. Down and outs living a hand to mouth existence on a site maybe, Slavery hmmmmmm!
While I am thin on sympathy these days since the Traveller representatives tried to portray Froggie Ward as a model father, I agree with Canalman. We might need to wait a bit more on this particular case.
God knows the British authorities have been very quick to jump to conclusions in the past, especially where Irish or any foreigners are involved.
bad of me i know, but i laughed out loud at that !!
Quote from: ross matt on September 13, 2011, 01:51:18 PM
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 12:50:58 AM
Because you are motivated by hatred and not concerned about their 2011 cars. I feel sorry for you that you are are still lumping everyone into the same bracket. Most of them, the majority of them etc. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? If only you could channel your hatred into something good or at least pick on someone your own size.
"In all seriousness, yanks did it themselves - look at how they have benefited since. Cnuts"
The above posted by you on the 9/11 thread. You're the man for lecturing about hatred then.
How was I showing hatred? Are you so simple to think that I meant that I hate all yanks from this post??? I was talking about the yank establishment you imbecile and that's why they got called cnuts.
Don't think you thought this one through before hitting 'post'.
Quote from: ross matt on September 13, 2011, 01:51:18 PM
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 12:50:58 AM
Because you are motivated by hatred and not concerned about their 2011 cars. I feel sorry for you that you are are still lumping everyone into the same bracket. Most of them, the majority of them etc. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? If only you could channel your hatred into something good or at least pick on someone your own size.
"In all seriousness, yanks did it themselves - look at how they have benefited since. Cnuts"
The above posted by you on the 9/11 thread. You're the man for lecturing about hatred then.
What!? That came from the person calling people bigots on this thread?
Surely no one is that thick.
How do you know when a traveller is having her period?
She is only wearing one sock.
Quote from: boojangles on September 13, 2011, 09:27:27 AM
I judge everybody as I find them. Members of my family have been bullied by travellers, have had goods stolen by travellers, been assaulted by travellers. Should I just forget about this?
The Guards do nothing about most of their behaviour. They are a law to themselves around where I come from.
What experiences have you got dealing with Travellers?
Pick on somebody my own size? :D :D
I don't think you should forget any individual who bullies your family, who stole your goods or who assaulted you. I have also had stuff stolen, been assaulted etc by individuals. But that is the way I look at them, I can't say Irish people because that would mean that I would never trust another Irish person. So no, don't forget about it by any means but also don't lump every 5 year old, middle aged and 80 year old traveller into one bracket. They are all individual people. And because you are lumping them into one category and being derogatory about them when you certainly don't know them all personally makes you a bigot and for that you have my pity.
And yes, pick on someone your own size ye bully ye!
Quote from: laoislad on September 13, 2011, 06:21:22 PM
How do you know when a traveller is having her period?
She is only wearing one sock.
Do you feel good about yourself after posting that. You know, bully's are normally the ones with the issues.
I went to school with (settled) travellers, never had anything against them and for the most part they were no harm.
Still wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Anyone who tries to let on that they wouldn't be wary if a traveller knocked on their front door is only kidding themselves.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on September 13, 2011, 07:03:48 PM
I went to school with (settled) travellers, never had anything against them and for the most part they were no harm.
Still wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Anyone who tries to let on that they wouldn't be wary if a traveller knocked on their front door is only kidding themselves.
Same here, was a bit foolish to play cards with them though.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 13, 2011, 07:53:33 PM
I was once cornered on my own by a couple of male traveller teens at the Cavan by-pass a few years ago stopping on the way to the All-Ireland football final (it's a few years ago now, think it was 2004) - they said that they needed some money to go and see their aunt in hospital in Belfast. Managed to string them along for a few minutes to try and buy time while the others ones I was with were in the diner at the time and I hoped they would soon be out but it wasn't to be the case, anyway it soon became clear that they were bluffing (they couldn't name any actual hospitals in Belfast) and eventually I palmed them of with some loose change around £2 saying that I had no other money on me.
Despite that, I wouldn't group all travellers as robbing scum. Some (at least) are and definitely take the piss on cases of human rights, robbery and fraud, but at the same time there's not much point in myself judging someone automatically if I don't know them. They're plenty of scumbags in settled, so-called "mainstream" communities that rob, steal and try to take the piss out of their legal and public rights without living up to their responsibilities.
IIRC a few years ago on the AFR board, a poster left a message congratulating John Joe Nevin on qualifying for the Olympics in Beijing without mentioning his traveller background. A few days later the same poster wrote in the subject line something like "Gypsy to represent Ireland in Beijing" and funnily enough, the viewing rate of that post was much much higher than the original post made.
Good post
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 06:19:36 PM
Quote from: ross matt on September 13, 2011, 01:51:18 PM
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 12:50:58 AM
Because you are motivated by hatred and not concerned about their 2011 cars. I feel sorry for you that you are are still lumping everyone into the same bracket. Most of them, the majority of them etc. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? If only you could channel your hatred into something good or at least pick on someone your own size.
"In all seriousness, yanks did it themselves - look at how they have benefited since. Cnuts"
The above posted by you on the 9/11 thread. You're the man for lecturing about hatred then.
How was I showing hatred? Are you so simple to think that I meant that I hate all yanks from this post??? I was talking about the yank establishment you imbecile and that's why they got called cnuts.
Don't think you thought this one through before hitting 'post'.
Considering your argument in this thread, do you not consider it unfair to tar the whole of the yank establishment with the one brush, or is that lost on you?
Well Skull, if you want to get into semantics then that's alright, i can deal with that. But please don't lose focus of what the main issue of concern is here.
So Semantics semantics semantics. When I used the term 'yank establishment', I'm not talking about the administration staff at the White House or others who may work in the civil service. I mean the decision and policy makers. Those who planned out their hegemony and global economic dominance. Those neo-conservatives who in my opinion either did the 9/11 thing themselves or who knew rightly that it was happening and used its legacy to conquer and colonise the middle east.
But that shouldn't get in the way of the main argument here of bigotry. Where do you stand on that?
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 09:08:24 PM
Well Skull, if you want to get into semantics then that's alright, i can deal with that. But please don't lose focus of what the main issue of concern is here.
So Semantics semantics semantics. When I used the term 'yank establishment', I'm not talking about the administration staff at the White House or others who may work in the civil service. I mean the decision and policy makers. Those who planned out their hegemony and global economic dominance. Those neo-conservatives who in my opinion either did the 9/11 thing themselves or who knew rightly that it was happening and used its legacy to conquer and colonise the middle east.
But that shouldn't get in the way of the main argument here of bigotry. Where do you stand on that?
And you don't think for one second that the travellers had anything to do with it? ::) What kind of conspiracy theorist are you :)
John Joe Nevin is a traveller. He burst his arse training to represent his country (which is a lot more than some of ye smart boys ever did) and succeeded in becoming an Olympian representing Ireland. When I watch someone represent their country i feel a sense of pride in them. I don't consider whether they are black or white, prod or catholic, traveller or settled. The point I am making is that there are people on this thread that brand John Joe Nevin to be scum because somewhere else in the world a group of travellers committed a horrible crime and somehow this makes all travellers, including Nevin, scumbags. This is the attitude of a simpleton, plain and simple.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 13, 2011, 09:29:20 PM
And you don't think for one second that the travellers had anything to do with it? ::) What kind of conspiracy theorist are you :)
Had a chuckle at this.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 13, 2011, 09:47:10 PM
John Joe Nevin is a traveller. He burst his arse training to represent his country (which is a lot more than some of ye smart boys ever did) and succeeded in becoming an Olympian representing Ireland. When I watch someone represent their country i feel a sense of pride in them. I don't consider whether they are black or white, prod or catholic, traveller or settled. The point I am making is that there are people on this thread that brand John Joe Nevin to be scum because somewhere else in the world a group of travellers committed a horrible crime and somehow this makes all travellers, including Nevin, scumbags. This is the attitude of a simpleton, plain and simple.
Not to mention a bigot. We've grown up with bigots up here and we can smell them a mile away.
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 09:50:04 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 13, 2011, 09:47:10 PM
John Joe Nevin is a traveller. He burst his arse training to represent his country (which is a lot more than some of ye smart boys ever did) and succeeded in becoming an Olympian representing Ireland. When I watch someone represent their country i feel a sense of pride in them. I don't consider whether they are black or white, prod or catholic, traveller or settled. The point I am making is that there are people on this thread that brand John Joe Nevin to be scum because somewhere else in the world a group of travellers committed a horrible crime and somehow this makes all travellers, including Nevin, scumbags. This is the attitude of a simpleton, plain and simple.
Not to mention a bigot. We've grown up with bigots up here and we can smell them a mile away.
You should be able to smell one alright.
meaning?
Hard to believe the bigotry and small mindedness on display in this thread.
I went down to watch Donegal Celtic at the weekend. I brought my five year old son. The language and threatening nature of the supporters' comments towards the ref and opposition was despicable. You're talking about 100 or so fans. I was unable to leave the stand for 5 minutes either side of half time because the stewards were afraid harm would come to the officials and players. Now, does that mean that everyone in West Belfast is like this? You'll also get joyriding, drug dealing, beatings. Are they worse than travellers? What about the ref who was knocked out on the field this year in Tyrone and other attacks on officials? Do we refuse to paint that family/area as scumbags because there is no distinct label for them as we have for the travelling community?
There is no doubt that a rogue element exists in the travelling community, and given their numbers a relatively high percentage. However, look around your own neighbourhood first and identify those you know are not to be trusted or have been involved in pub brawls, financial skulduggery or theft. The difference is - you cannot label them.
No shit Sherlock
who are the slaves? are they illegal immigrants? are they making these claims in order to gain public sympathy and then assylum.. why didnt they escape? their 'capters' face 7yrs in the clink
Quote from: lawnseed on September 13, 2011, 10:23:31 PM
who are the slaves? are they illegal immigrants? are they making these claims in order to gain public sympathy and then assylum.. why didnt they escape? their 'capters' face 7yrs in the clink
They come from the UK and other European Union countries, so therefore not illegal immigrants.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 13, 2011, 06:21:03 PM
Quote from: ross matt on September 13, 2011, 01:51:18 PM
Quote from: 4father on September 13, 2011, 12:50:58 AM
Because you are motivated by hatred and not concerned about their 2011 cars. I feel sorry for you that you are are still lumping everyone into the same bracket. Most of them, the majority of them etc. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? If only you could channel your hatred into something good or at least pick on someone your own size.
"In all seriousness, yanks did it themselves - look at how they have benefited since. Cnuts"
The above posted by you on the 9/11 thread. You're the man for lecturing about hatred then.
What!? That came from the person calling people bigots on this thread?
Surely no one is that thick.
The very man. Santa Claus himself. Also calling people embeciles which is even more ironic given the intelligence level in his posts. He may indeed be really that thick.
Considering how much heat this thread generated a few months back, I am surprised this latest news story (below) seems to have passed by unnoticed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16836065
1 February 2012 Last updated at 22:23
British men forced into 'modern slavery' abroad
By Alison Holt, Social Affairs Correspondent, BBC News
Criminal elements of the British and Irish travelling community have been transporting vulnerable British men abroad to work as virtual slaves.
An investigation by the BBC Ten O'Clock News and Radio 5 Live Breakfast has uncovered at least 32 victims.
The European Commission describes it as modern slavery and says this is the tip of the iceberg.
There have been confirmed cases in six European countries, including Sweden, Norway and Belgium.
The gangs pick vulnerable men off the streets in the UK, who are often homeless and many have drink or drugs problems.
They are promised well-paid work, but are then transported abroad where they are forced into long, hard days tarmacking or paving driveways for little or no money.
One man the BBC spoke to had arrived in the Swedish port of Malmo with two other Britons who all had been homeless when they were picked up. He has asked not to be named, because he fears for his safety.
The men worked 14-hour days for little or no pay and lived in appalling, cramped conditions. They were too frightened to escape, until the Swedish police offered them help. He says there was a culture of violence.
"I've seen people threatened with pickaxes. I've seen people kicked, punched. I've nearly been pushed off a moving vehicle. It's very tense. You're waiting for the next thing to happen, " he says.
'Targeting most vulnerable'
The European Commissioner for Home Affairs, Cecilia Malmstrom, says she fears this is only the tip of the iceberg.
"It's a horrible crime and it's modern slavery," she says.
"They are using very vulnerable people and especially in hard economic times, people have lost work, nowhere to live, thrown out from families. We must act much stronger than we have done. It's only recently we have been aware of the amount of the problem."
The project manager of human trafficking at the European law enforcement agency, Europol, believes there have been dozens of British victims. David Ellero says traveller gangs have been doing this for a long time.
"[They are] targeting the most vulnerable in society and forcing them to work, but the cases are not categorised as trafficking. The work is normally carried out in northern Europe, where they work in rural areas and focus on elderly victims.
"These people are intimidated into paying for substantial work, so it is a double crime, exploitation of the victims and fraud of the person paying."
A report into human trafficking in Sweden, published in 2010, found 26 reports of human trafficking for non-sexual purposes. "In particular, these concern British and Irish tarmac and paving layers in Sweden," it says.
"The victims do not usually report personally that they have been the subject of human trafficking because they often have no confidence in the authorities that administer justice and are afraid of acts of reprisal."
Another confidential Swedish police report, obtained by the BBC, underlines just how lucrative the business is for the gangs. Their "conservative calculation" suggests criminal gangs are making about £3m in a year from what the report calls "black labour".
In 2007, Norwegian police estimated traveller gangs operating there made more than £11m in a year. The problem of vulnerable people being used for forced labour has become so serious in Norway that the police have been given new instructions on how to deal with it.
In Belgium, the ministry of justice has said it is currently investigating a case involving British nationals being trafficked into the country for forced labour.
The BBC has also heard anecdotal accounts from soup kitchens, shelters, church groups, homeless charities, anti-trafficking organisations and trade unions which suggest that traveller gangs are also operating in Germany, Holland and Denmark.
Dr Aidan McQuade, director of Anti-Slavery International, says the BBC's investigation shows how vulnerable, often homeless, people were being targeted for forced labour.
"That physically fit British men can be threatened or coerced into working without pay and living in fear for their safety reflects the brutal reality of modern slavery," he says.
"The widespread nature of the problem means that it is essential that local police officers consider new approaches to investigating this crime, such as regular meetings with homeless charities, soup kitchens and migrant drop-in centres to identify risks and potential victims of trafficking, and gather intelligence on gangs seeking to exploit vulnerable people for forced labour."
He believes that the British and other governments should be doing much more to combat the problem. That is certainly on Commissioner Malmstrom's agenda. "This is not worthy of Europe today," she says, "and we should do everything to prevent it."
A Home Office spokesman said: "The government is committed to tackling human trafficking and preventing the harm it causes to vulnerable members of our society.
"The National Crime Agency on establishment in 2013 will have a key role in building on the existing arrangements for tackling human trafficking. Its enhanced intelligence capabilities and co-ordination functions will target the organised criminal gangs involved in human trafficking, wherever they are."
Yvonne MacNamara, director of the Irish Traveller Movement in Britain, said her organisation condemned "absolutely slavery and forced labour, not least because travelling people have been subjected to slavery and forced labour throughout their history, including recent history.
"If individuals are suspected of criminality, they should be subjected to the full force of due process and the law."
Additional reporting by Owen Phillips, Kieran Turner and Pam Mangat.
For those able to view it, the BBC Link has a video interview with one guy who was taken to Sweden and abused etc. It is frightening to think how easy it is for people to fall into this vile business. And there is also the following Case Study of another poor individual:
'It cost him his life'
Oliver Hayre, 22, from Lincolnshire, died in a caravan fire in Sweden in 2005 after working in appalling conditions for a traveller gang for more than three months.
The British inquest into his death heard how Oliver had been afraid of his bosses.
A police report prepared for the coroner said several of his friends had claimed that his savings and passport had been confiscated, and that Oliver had been beaten up over trivial matters and was only staying to keep his parents safe.
Detective Superintendent Guy Collings, who investigated his death, said: "It is my view that Oliver was most definitely the victim of trafficking by a gang of individuals who in effect kept him hostage by removing his passport and threatening violence if he did not comply."
He said Oliver was taken to hospital after an assault: "The gangs create a culture of fear, and Oliver and others like him are placed in fear for their own safety and that of their families back home."
Oliver's parents want the government to do more to stop such exploitation.
His father, Martin Hayre, said: "It's the 21st Century, we abolished slavery, but yet we haven't... my perception of the authorities is that they turn a blind eye to it and the intimidation to Oliver was real. It cost him his life."