gaaboard.com

I was very sad to hear of her passing, such a talent coming to a tragic end.

Unfortunately I'm not surprised. Poor girl had so much talent. What a waste. May she rest in peace.

good article from armaghs finest journalist..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/23/amy-winehouse-27-hendrix-cobain

Quote from: boojangles on July 23, 2011, 10:19:32 PM
Unfortunately I'm not surprised. Poor girl had so much talent. What a waste. May she rest in peace.

So many people in that profession die early. 

sorry story,  seemed that no one could help what was obviously a troubled girl. RIP.

In memoriam.....

Neil Young's Hey Hey My My

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDzpD_p1A8w

RIP

Save you sympathy for Norway.

can ya not do both horse or is it one or the other??

Quote from: bridgegael on July 23, 2011, 11:55:38 PM
can ya not do both horse or is it one or the other??

Exactly. Norway is clearly a huge tragedy. Amy Winehouse's death is very sad too nonetheless. Such a predictable 'sudden' death.

Quote from: bridgegael on July 23, 2011, 11:55:38 PM
can ya not do both horse or is it one or the other??

Okay then 95% Norway, 4% Marty Clarke and 1% Amy.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 23, 2011, 11:46:14 PM
Save you sympathy for Norway.

I'l save my sympathy for Amy, Norway and even a wee bit for someone as sad as yourself.

Quote from: boojangles on July 24, 2011, 12:02:45 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 23, 2011, 11:46:14 PM
Save you sympathy for Norway.

I'l save my sympathy for Amy, Norway and even a wee bit for someone as sad as yourself.

Suppose you cried when Diana died too you f**king w**ker.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 24, 2011, 12:05:15 AM

Quote from: boojangles on July 24, 2011, 12:02:45 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 23, 2011, 11:46:14 PM
Save you sympathy for Norway.

I'l save my sympathy for Amy, Norway and even a wee bit for someone as sad as yourself.

Suppose you cried when Diana died too you f**king w**ker.

You've got issues man. You should see somebody about it.

tony,  your sole reason for coming on this thread was to give grief to those who even showed any sympaty for her.  f**k up you loser!

RIP but i wasn't shocked to hear the news

Quote from: Forever Green on July 24, 2011, 12:19:58 AM
RIP but i wasn't shocked to hear the news

Don't get me wrong I feel sorry for the girl that no-one could pull her out of the shit she was involved in. It's not that I don't have sympathy for her but it would be minuscule compared to the sympathy I have for the Norwegians who died at the hands of another.

Unlike some of the other music stars she wrote a lot of her own songs & TBH i wasn't a fan of her singing style or of the way she decided to live her life.

27 is too young to die may she RIP.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 24, 2011, 12:24:03 AM

Quote from: Forever Green on July 24, 2011, 12:19:58 AM
RIP but i wasn't shocked to hear the news

Don't get me wrong I feel sorry for the girl that no-one could pull her out of the shit she was involved in. It's not that I don't have sympathy for her but it would be minuscule compared to the sympathy I have for the Norwegians who died at the hands of another.

+1. Those would be my thoughts on it as well. Really insignificant considering what is going on in Norway

why would you even start to compare?? 

Quote from: boojangles on July 24, 2011, 12:08:26 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 24, 2011, 12:05:15 AM

Quote from: boojangles on July 24, 2011, 12:02:45 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 23, 2011, 11:46:14 PM
Save you sympathy for Norway.

I'l save my sympathy for Amy, Norway and even a wee bit for someone as sad as yourself.

Suppose you cried when Diana died too you f**king w**ker.

You've got issues man. You should see somebody about it.

I apologise for the expletives. I forgot you were from Cavan and therefore not in possession of your faculties. Sorry. It's not your fault.

Quote from: bridgegael on July 24, 2011, 12:36:01 AM
why would you even start to compare?? 

Are you trying to say that the death of Amy Winehouse is as bad as almost 100 people being murdered?

eh no!  thats why u wouldnt start to compare.  keep up lad

I hear Bestie and Hurricane Higgins are delighted there is now a Winehouse in heaven.

Quote from: Minder on July 24, 2011, 12:54:24 AM
I hear Bestie and Hurricane Higgins are delighted there is now a Winehouse in heaven.

Sick.

Quote from: ross4life on July 24, 2011, 12:26:24 AM
Unlike some of the other music stars she wrote a lot of her own songs & TBH i wasn't a fan of her singing style or of the way she decided to live her life.

27 is too young to die may she RIP.

What does Blowitupref think?

Quote from: laoislad on July 24, 2011, 12:58:09 AM

Quote from: ross4life on July 24, 2011, 12:26:24 AM
Unlike some of the other music stars she wrote a lot of her own songs & TBH i wasn't a fan of her singing style or of the way she decided to live her life.

27 is too young to die may she RIP.

What does Blowitupref think?

:D

Quote from: laoislad on July 24, 2011, 12:58:09 AM

Quote from: ross4life on July 24, 2011, 12:26:24 AM
Unlike some of the other music stars she wrote a lot of her own songs & TBH i wasn't a fan of her singing style or of the way she decided to live her life.

27 is too young to die may she RIP.

What does Blowitupref think?

??? have already given my condolences on the death notices thread unlike you.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 24, 2011, 12:24:03 AM

Quote from: Forever Green on July 24, 2011, 12:19:58 AM
RIP but i wasn't shocked to hear the news

Don't get me wrong I feel sorry for the girl that no-one could pull her out of the shit she was involved in. It's not that I don't have sympathy for her but it would be minuscule compared to the sympathy I have for the Norwegians who died at the hands of another.

I agree!

Real classy tony, I suppose every death must be rated and its significance determined so that the appropriate level of condolences can assigned? Does this also apply to gaa players, your neighbours and your family members etc?

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 24, 2011, 08:56:58 AM
Real classy tony, I suppose every death must be rated and its significance determined so that the appropriate level of condolences can assigned? Does this also apply to gaa players, your neighbours and your family members etc?

Erm how stupid are you exactly? Of course the level of condolence is rated - I personally would think the death of a neighbour or family member more significant than that of Amy Winehouse or any other celebrity. If you don't then I feel sorry for you.

There is one less junkie in the world today and that is not a tragedy. They turn themselves into a version of the living dead. It is sad that she turned into a junkie but that was her own free will. It is also sad that it takes attention away from what went on in Norway where our sympathies should be directed.

Winehouse turned herself into a bit of a laughing stock and has made it worse by dying and writing a song like Rehab for which she is so well known.

In retrospect,she probably should've said yes yes yes

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 24, 2011, 09:51:30 AM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 24, 2011, 08:56:58 AM
Real classy tony, I suppose every death must be rated and its significance determined so that the appropriate level of condolences can assigned? Does this also apply to gaa players, your neighbours and your family members etc?

Erm how stupid are you exactly? Of course the level of condolence is rated - I personally would think the death of a neighbour or family member more significant than that of Amy Winehouse or any other celebrity. If you don't then I feel sorry for you.

Since you seem fit to rate the deaths of people you don't know I expect you must shake the hand of your neighbour in the funeral home and tell him while the death of his wife is tragic it is insignificant in comparison to 911, Norway and WWII. This is a straight forward thread to discuss the death of Amy Winehouse. Some will wish to put their condolences into it. It is quite pathetic to have someone like you on here somehow make her death out to be something less significant "in general" to that of people in Norway. Amy Winehouse had a mother and a father just like the people in Norway. Without knowing them of course I imagine they must be hurting terribly over their daughters death just like the poor people in Norway are. Your first instinct on this thread tells a lot about what you are made off.

Quote from: Capt Pat on July 24, 2011, 09:55:29 AM
There is one less junkie in the world today and that is not a tragedy. They turn themselves into a version of the living dead. It is sad that she turned into a junkie but that was her own free will. It is also sad that it takes attention away from what went on in Norway where our sympathies should be directed.

Winehouse turned herself into a bit of a laughing stock and has made it worse by dying and writing a song like Rehab for which she is so well known.

Indeed, how inconsiderate of her to OD this week. This is supposed to be a christian country yet my dog outside has more christian attributes than some of you boys.

It could be very possible that her parents are (in a very tragic way) glad its over. I'm sure they've lived in hell for years over their daughters lifestyle and this was a day that was going to happen.

RIP. Back to Black is a great album.

Quote from: Capt Pat on July 24, 2011, 09:55:29 AM
There is one less junkie in the world today and that is not a tragedy. They turn themselves into a version of the living dead. It is sad that she turned into a junkie but that was her own free will. It is also sad that it takes attention away from what went on in Norway where our sympathies should be directed.

Winehouse turned herself into a bit of a laughing stock and has made it worse by dying and writing a song like Rehab for which she is so well known.

Ridiculous post. In so many ways.

Sympathy for her family and parents in particular but hard to have much for her. She made the choice to destroy herself, pity as she had a lot of talent gifted to her.

Quote from: Blowitupref on July 24, 2011, 01:11:47 AM

Quote from: laoislad on July 24, 2011, 12:58:09 AM

Quote from: ross4life on July 24, 2011, 12:26:24 AM
Unlike some of the other music stars she wrote a lot of her own songs & TBH i wasn't a fan of her singing style or of the way she decided to live her life.

27 is too young to die may she RIP.

What does Blowitupref think?

??? have already given my condolences on the death notices thread unlike you.

Much like the Michaela Harte incident, whether or not someone leaves a message on an internet message board has no bearing on the level of pity and sympathy they feel. It's not a competition, you're not in any way a better human being for having posted condolences than those of us who haven't. Wise up.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 24, 2011, 10:25:35 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 24, 2011, 09:51:30 AM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 24, 2011, 08:56:58 AM
Real classy tony, I suppose every death must be rated and its significance determined so that the appropriate level of condolences can assigned? Does this also apply to gaa players, your neighbours and your family members etc?

Erm how stupid are you exactly? Of course the level of condolence is rated - I personally would think the death of a neighbour or family member more significant than that of Amy Winehouse or any other celebrity. If you don't then I feel sorry for you.

Since you seem fit to rate the deaths of people you don't know I expect you must shake the hand of your neighbour in the funeral home and tell him while the death of his wife is tragic it is insignificant in comparison to 911, Norway and WWII. This is a straight forward thread to discuss the death of Amy Winehouse. Some will wish to put their condolences into it. It is quite pathetic to have someone like you on here somehow make her death out to be something less significant "in general" to that of people in Norway. Amy Winehouse had a mother and a father just like the people in Norway. Without knowing them of course I imagine they must be hurting terribly over their daughters death just like the poor people in Norway are. Your first instinct on this thread tells a lot about what you are made off.

Your gonna have a long ignore list once this thread runs it's course aren't you myles :D

Quote from: laoislad on July 24, 2011, 08:12:00 PM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 24, 2011, 10:25:35 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 24, 2011, 09:51:30 AM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 24, 2011, 08:56:58 AM
Real classy tony, I suppose every death must be rated and its significance determined so that the appropriate level of condolences can assigned? Does this also apply to gaa players, your neighbours and your family members etc?

Erm how stupid are you exactly? Of course the level of condolence is rated - I personally would think the death of a neighbour or family member more significant than that of Amy Winehouse or any other celebrity. If you don't then I feel sorry for you.

Since you seem fit to rate the deaths of people you don't know I expect you must shake the hand of your neighbour in the funeral home and tell him while the death of his wife is tragic it is insignificant in comparison to 911, Norway and WWII. This is a straight forward thread to discuss the death of Amy Winehouse. Some will wish to put their condolences into it. It is quite pathetic to have someone like you on here somehow make her death out to be something less significant "in general" to that of people in Norway. Amy Winehouse had a mother and a father just like the people in Norway. Without knowing them of course I imagine they must be hurting terribly over their daughters death just like the poor people in Norway are. Your first instinct on this thread tells a lot about what you are made off.

Your gonna have a long ignore list once this thread runs it's course aren't you myles :D

You have to make him cry to get on that list ;D

It takes a special breed of a Dick to make my list, tonys not even in the same planet as the other two.

Tony lacks a bit if tact but I think society's ever increasing fascination with celebrity regardless of how much of a waste of space they are is the bugbear here. I'm not far away on that score especially when one considers this woman's lifestyle.

Wouldn't be a big fan of his but Russell Brnads piece on her is excellent:

My friend Amy and the call that always comes
By Russell Brand

Monday, July 25, 2011

WHEN you love someone who suffers from the disease of addiction you await the phone call.
There will be a phone call. The sincere hope is that the call will be from the addict themselves, telling you they've had enough, that they're ready to stop, ready to try something new. Of course, though, you fear the other call, the sad nocturnal chime from a friend or relative telling you it's too late, she's gone. Frustratingly it's not a call you can ever make: it must be received. It is impossible to intervene.

I've known Amy Winehouse for years. When I first met her around Camden she was just some twit in a pink satin jacket shuffling round bars with mutual friends, most of whom were in cool indie bands or peripheral Camden figures Withnail-ing their way through life on impotent charisma. Carl Barrat told me that "Winehouse" was a jazz singer, which struck me as anomalous in that crowd. To me, with my limited musical knowledge, this information placed Amy beyond an invisible boundary of relevance. "Jazz singer? She must be some kind of eccentric," I thought. I chatted to her anyway though, and she was sweet and peculiar but most of all vulnerable.

I was myself barely out of rehab and was thirstily seeking less complicated women, so I barely reflected on the now glaringly obvious fact that Winehouse and I shared an affliction, the disease of addiction.

From time to time I'd bump into Amy, she had good banter so we could chat a bit and have a laugh, she was "a character" but that world was riddled with half-cut, doped-up chancers. I was one of them, even in early recovery I was kept afloat only by clinging to the bodies of strangers, so Winehouse, but for her gentle quirks, didn't especially register.

Then she became massively famous and I was pleased to see her acknowledged, but mostly baffled because I'd not experienced her work. I wasn't curious enough to do anything so extreme as listen to her music or go to one of her gigs, I was becoming famous myself at the time and that was an all-consuming experience. It was only by chance I attended a Paul Weller gig at the Roundhouse and saw her live.

I arrived late and as I made my way through the audience I heard the rolling, wondrous resonance of a female vocal. I saw Amy on stage with Weller and his band; and then the awe. The awe that envelops when witnessing a genius. From her oddly dainty presence that voice, a voice that seemed not to come from her but from somewhere beyond even Billie and Ella. A voice that was filled with such power and pain that it was at once entirely human yet laced with the divine. My ears, my mouth, my heart and mind all instantly opened. !That twerp, all eyeliner and lager dithering up Chalk Farm Road under a back-combed barnet, the lips that I'd only seen clenching a fishwife fag and dribbling curses now a portal for this holy sound. So now I knew. She wasn't just some hapless wannabe, just another pissed-up nit who was never gonna make it. Nor was she even a 10-a-penny chanteuse enjoying her 15 minutes. She was a f**king genius.

Shallow fool that I am, I now regarded her in a different light, the light that blazed down from heaven when she sang. She came on my shows and I attended to her with a little more interest. Publicly though, Amy increasingly became defined by her addiction. Our media, though, is more interested in tragedy than talent, so the ink began to defect from praising her gift to chronicling her downfall. The destructive personal relationships, the blood soaked slippers, the aborted shows. In the public perception, this ephemeral tittle-tattle replaced her timeless talent. This and her manner in our occasional meetings brought home to me the severity of her condition. Addiction is a serious disease; it will end with jail, mental institutions or death. I was 27 years old when I found recovery, and was introduced to support fellowships for alcoholics and drug addicts which are very easy to find and open to anybody with a desire to stop drinking and without which I would not be alive.

Now Amy Winehouse is dead, like many others whose unnecessary deaths have been retrospectively romanticised, at 27 years old. Whether this tragedy was preventable or not is irrelevant. We have lost a beautiful and talented woman to this disease. Not all addicts have Amy's incredible talent. Or Kurt's or Jimi's or Janis's, Some people just get the affliction. All we can do is adapt the way we view this condition, not as a crime or a romantic affectation but as a disease that kills. We need to review how we treat addicts, not as criminals but as sick people in need of care.

Not all of us know someone with the incredible talent Amy had but we all know drunks and junkies and they all need help. The help is out there. All they have to do is pick up the phone and make the call.

Or not. Either way, there will be a phone call.



Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/world/my-friend-amy-and-the-call-that-always-comes-162112.html#ixzz1T6WRCmPz

Quote from: Capt Pat on July 24, 2011, 09:55:29 AM
There is one less junkie in the world today and that is not a tragedy. They turn themselves into a version of the living dead. It is sad that she turned into a junkie but that was her own free will. It is also sad that it takes attention away from what went on in Norway where our sympathies should be directed.

Winehouse turned herself into a bit of a laughing stock and has made it worse by dying and writing a song like Rehab for which she is so well known.

You don't subscribe to the notion that an addiction is a disease then?

I knew an alcoholic who ruined his life and traumatised the lives of his wife and kids but he was an amazing digger driver.....the point is  ???

Quote from: LeoMc on July 25, 2011, 11:39:04 AM

Quote from: Capt Pat on July 24, 2011, 09:55:29 AM
There is one less junkie in the world today and that is not a tragedy. They turn themselves into a version of the living dead. It is sad that she turned into a junkie but that was her own free will. It is also sad that it takes attention away from what went on in Norway where our sympathies should be directed.

Winehouse turned herself into a bit of a laughing stock and has made it worse by dying and writing a song like Rehab for which she is so well known.

You don't subscribe to the notion that an addiction is a disease then?

Cancer, Diabetes, Parkinsons and Alzheimers are diseases.  Being fond of drinks and drugs is not.  How does someone that over-indulges in drink and drugs differ from someone that loves their food and is obese? 

Declan - thanks for posting that. I'm having to review my very negative opinion of Russell Brand and that irks me! A fine piece, think it captures what I feel about it obviously without knowing the girl.

But whats your point Skull? I dont get it.
What i really dont get on here is why people cannot be allowed to express sympathy for a young girls death? Yes she is a celebrity, yes none of us knew her but i hear of lots of people dying young and still feel a certain amount of sympathy. Is that not part of human nature to be able to empathise with others losses. Celebrity or not shes still someones daughter, someones sister, someones friend. It wont affect my life for any great period of time but for the immediate few minutes anyway after hearing it i felt sadness for her family. Why the hell do we have to compare that to what we would feel for those killed in Norway.

Also people and their self righteous attitude to addiction pisses me off also. Addicition is a deadly deadly disease be it drink, drugs or whatever else. Graveyards are full of people all over the world who couldnt beat it. Some people are lucky enough to grasp recovery, others arent that lucky and i for one feel im allowed to be sad when i hear of another person succumb to it!

There appears largely to be two types of people on a condolances thread; those who try to outdo eachother in how much sympathy they give and those who try to outdo eachother in how offensive they can be.

Quote from: nrico2006 on July 25, 2011, 11:57:15 AM
Cancer, Diabetes, Parkinsons and Alzheimers are diseases.  Being fond of drinks and drugs is not.  How does someone that over-indulges in drink and drugs differ from someone that loves their food and is obese?

Addiction is a lot more than just being 'fond' or overly fond of a substance: it's an affliction, that may or may not be as debilitating and deathly as any disease. It's all to do with the chemical constitution of the brain: the receptors triggered positively for drink and drugs are (generally) much more powerful than those that are triggered for (excess) food; once the dependency line has been crossed, however, it's an addiction, regardless of the substance involved.

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 25, 2011, 12:05:28 PM
But whats your point Skull? I dont get it.
What i really dont get on here is why people cannot be allowed to express sympathy for a young girls death? Yes she is a celebrity, yes none of us knew her but i hear of lots of people dying young and still feel a certain amount of sympathy. Is that not part of human nature to be able to empathise with others losses. Celebrity or not shes still someones daughter, someones sister, someones friend. It wont affect my life for any great period of time but for the immediate few minutes anyway after hearing it i felt sadness for her family. Why the hell do we have to compare that to what we would feel for those killed in Norway.

Also people and their self righteous attitude to addiction pisses me off also. Addicition is a deadly deadly disease be it drink, drugs or whatever else. Graveyards are full of people all over the world who couldnt beat it. Some people are lucky enough to grasp recovery, others arent that lucky and i for one feel im allowed to be sad when i hear of another person succumb to it!

Fantastic post.

Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 25, 2011, 01:13:18 PM

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 25, 2011, 12:05:28 PM
But whats your point Skull? I dont get it.
What i really dont get on here is why people cannot be allowed to express sympathy for a young girls death? Yes she is a celebrity, yes none of us knew her but i hear of lots of people dying young and still feel a certain amount of sympathy. Is that not part of human nature to be able to empathise with others losses. Celebrity or not shes still someones daughter, someones sister, someones friend. It wont affect my life for any great period of time but for the immediate few minutes anyway after hearing it i felt sadness for her family. Why the hell do we have to compare that to what we would feel for those killed in Norway.

Also people and their self righteous attitude to addiction pisses me off also. Addicition is a deadly deadly disease be it drink, drugs or whatever else. Graveyards are full of people all over the world who couldnt beat it. Some people are lucky enough to grasp recovery, others arent that lucky and i for one feel im allowed to be sad when i hear of another person succumb to it!

Fantastic post.

+1

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 25, 2011, 09:17:49 AM
It takes a special breed of a Dick to make my list, tonys not even in the same planet as the other two.

Stop it with the compliments! You're making me blush.  :-*

Quote from: Tonto on July 25, 2011, 12:08:26 PM
There appears largely to be two types of people on a condolances thread; those who try to outdo eachother in how much sympathy they give and those who try to outdo eachother in how offensive they can be.

Which camp are you in then Tonto?  ;)

Quote from: Tonto on July 25, 2011, 12:08:26 PM
There appears largely to be two types of people on a condolances thread; those who try to outdo eachother in how much sympathy they give and those who try to outdo eachother in how offensive they can be.

I make it three, when you count those who can't spell "condolences".

She choose her lifestyle - but she never harmed anyone (possibly put her family through a bit of pain but also gave them alot of happiness I would imagine) Very sad to see such a young talented woman die of a disease! RIP

There are some people who have such a negative influence on the immediate world that they exist in (drug dealers, drug addicts, alcoholics, burgulars, child abusers, murders, muggers, brutal dictators etc etc) that I am of the opinion that the world (when the understandable grieving is over for his/her relatives) is better off without them being there. An unpalatable belief for many I'm sure but there you go. I could be wrong of course and am aware that circumstances play a huge part but I'm fairly comfortable with that view

So u are saying that the world is better off without anyone with an addictionl problem? Words fail me
Go into the million of aa and na meetings all round the world and tell all those people that the world would be a better place without them.

Quote from: theskull1 on July 25, 2011, 03:13:42 PM
There are some people who have such a negative influence on the immediate world that they exist in (drug dealers, drug addicts, alcoholics, burgulars, child abusers, murders, muggers, brutal dictators etc etc) that I am of the opinion that the world (when the understandable grieving is over for his/her relatives) is better off without them being there. An unpalatable belief for many I'm sure but there you go. I could be wrong of course and am aware that circumstances play a huge part but I'm fairly comfortable with that view

Did you say that to the family of the digger driver?

Quote from: LeoMc on July 25, 2011, 03:31:47 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on July 25, 2011, 03:13:42 PM
There are some people who have such a negative influence on the immediate world that they exist in (drug dealers, drug addicts, alcoholics, burgulars, child abusers, murders, muggers, brutal dictators etc etc) that I am of the opinion that the world (when the understandable grieving is over for his/her relatives) is better off without them being there. An unpalatable belief for many I'm sure but there you go. I could be wrong of course and am aware that circumstances play a huge part but I'm fairly comfortable with that view

Did you say that to the family of the digger driver?

Strangely enough I didn't. You're point is......?

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 25, 2011, 03:17:53 PM
So u are saying that the world is better off without anyone with an addictionl problem? Words fail me
Go into the million of aa and na meetings all round the world and tell all those people that the world would be a better place without them.

I'll bet you they would understand more than anyone what I am trying to convey rather than act the drama queen like you when some says something not to your taste. I assume youre in agreement about the rest of list seeing as your being specific about drug & alcohol addiction in your reply?

Tyrone girl - you and I share the same opinion on this topic. Here is s question for those who would look down their noses at those with addiction issues. 2 friends go for their first pint together at 18. One drinks and is able to stop tge other becomes addicted, drinks his life away and dies. What is different about these 2 guys is a reaction within them to drink. I know lads at deaths door that just can't stop no matter what the consequences. I feel sorry for them and I don't see it as a life choice as one uninformed poster put it.

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 25, 2011, 04:10:50 PM
Whos acting the drama queen? What exactly are you trying to say then. Did you not just say that the world would be a better place without these people? So do you think they would understand that.
Im trying to think if i was an addict and struggling to recover and some clown like yourself tells me i have such a negative influence on the world and it would be better place without me. Wonder would they decide to gather in some corner of the globe and rid the world of their presence  ::)
I think your post was completely moronic skull. We dont live in a fairytale world. There are very few people who have completely positive influences on the world.

I said it was my opinion that there are some people who have such a negative influence on the world the live in that them not being there would make the world a better place (when all the greiving was done). I could see a recovering drug addict for instance (understanding what he had put his family through) understand how someone could think such thoughts yes. Absolutely.

Rest In Peace Amy.

Was vere close to someone who was an alcoholic, thank god the beat it, and "there for the grace of god go I"

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 25, 2011, 02:17:02 PM

Quote from: Tonto on July 25, 2011, 12:08:26 PM
There appears largely to be two types of people on a condolances thread; those who try to outdo eachother in how much sympathy they give and those who try to outdo eachother in how offensive they can be.

Which camp are you in then Tonto?  ;)

Think of me as an independent observer.

Quote from: Hardy on July 25, 2011, 02:25:39 PM

Quote from: Tonto on July 25, 2011, 12:08:26 PM
There appears largely to be two types of people on a condolances thread; those who try to outdo eachother in how much sympathy they give and those who try to outdo eachother in how offensive they can be.

I make it three, when you count those who can't spell "condolences".

::)

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 25, 2011, 04:26:20 PM
Il run that past a recovering alcoholic tonight then. Will ask him due to the negative influence he has had on the world over the past number of years and the pain he put people through does he think the world would have been a better place without him. He will probably ask me to kill him there and then

No....FFS ::) ....ask him if he could understand why someone else may have thought that about him due to the hell he put them through and see what he says.

What's with these tossers leaving cigarettes and booze at her "shrine" outside her flat? Is there something wrong with them ?

Quote from: nrico2006 on July 25, 2011, 11:57:15 AM

Quote from: LeoMc on July 25, 2011, 11:39:04 AM

Quote from: Capt Pat on July 24, 2011, 09:55:29 AM
There is one less junkie in the world today and that is not a tragedy. They turn themselves into a version of the living dead. It is sad that she turned into a junkie but that was her own free will. It is also sad that it takes attention away from what went on in Norway where our sympathies should be directed.

Winehouse turned herself into a bit of a laughing stock and has made it worse by dying and writing a song like Rehab for which she is so well known.

You don't subscribe to the notion that an addiction is a disease then?

Cancer, Diabetes, Parkinsons and Alzheimers are diseases.  Being fond of drinks and drugs is not.  How does someone that over-indulges in drink and drugs differ from someone that loves their food and is obese?

You obviously have never encountered somone who has died from alcoholism. If you think that someone waiting outside outside the offlicense on a weekday morning to buy a litre of vodka hasn't something wrong with them then you're f**king deluded.

Just because it's not physical or neurological or whatever...doesn't mean it's not a disease. (Just FYI food addiction is considered a disease as well and you can be referred to St luke's if it's troubling you  ;) )

As for Amy Winehouse - was never a big fan, girl had talent but was clearly living a troubled life.
Previously I'd have thought to myself "f**k her, she's a druggie" but having seen first hand  in my own town people's lives being affected by drug use it's starting to ring home a wee bit more.

I'm sure if some young fella from a GAA club who had "fallen in with a dodgey crowd" had taken a bad e-tab or od'd on meph or whatever, the outpouring of sympathy on here would be a lot different.

RIP

A terrible disease for anyone to have, people on here slating her and having a go at her lifestyle obviously have never encountered someone with such a disease. It is a terrible burden on anyone and the people around them. The fact she could not stop is not selfish and she shouldn't be slammed for it. There are plenty of 'normal' people today who have the same type of addiction and cannot get rid of it despite help from numerous professionals etc, a very sad scenario, but alas it is not as if there is a switch that it can be turned on and off. Sadly the only way hers was turned off was through the most extreme of outcomes.

Amy had made a few bad choices in life and unfortunately could not escape them. We shouldn't be judging Amy, because her illness was not as visible to the eye as other's, including mine's. It's very bit as real and from my own point of view, Amy's was more damaging. I pray that she has found peace and her family and friends find the strength to cope with the days and weeks ahead.

As for the distasteful mockery of Amy's life, you should all be ashamed of yourself. We all make mistakes, but by the grace of God, we were spared.

RIP Amy Winehouse.

If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

There's some c***ts on this board. 

Quote from: theskull1 on July 25, 2011, 09:34:44 AM
Tony lacks a bit if tact but I think society's ever increasing fascination with celebrity regardless of how much of a waste of space they are is the bugbear here. I'm not far away on that score especially when one considers this woman's lifestyle.

Waste of space? She probably contributed a lot more to the world than most of us will achieve.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 25, 2011, 06:41:58 PM
There's some c***ts on this board.

Speaking of which...where have you been?

Quote from: Maguire01 on July 25, 2011, 07:03:25 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on July 25, 2011, 09:34:44 AM
Tony lacks a bit if tact but I think society's ever increasing fascination with celebrity regardless of how much of a waste of space they are is the bugbear here. I'm not far away on that score especially when one considers this woman's lifestyle.

Waste of space? She probably contributed a lot more to the world than most of us will achieve.

But that doesn't matter because she was on the 'junk'.
Everything is in black and white in this world according to some of the preachers on this thread. Drug Addicts are bad and it's all their own fault. ::)
I was never a big fan of Amy Winehouses music but even I could recognise that the girl was a lot more than a 'celebrity'.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 25, 2011, 09:17:49 AM
It takes a special breed of a Dick to make my list, tonys not even in the same planet as the other two.

careful..we dont want you to have another meltdown like the last time.

While few deaths are to be celebrated, and some of the opinions on here are a tad harsh (although some of you big salmon should know better than to rise to the bait - yet you can't help yourselves) there is a bit of a hierarchy of grief - for me at least - when comparing the late Ms Winehouse to what happened in Norway. What irks me the most about the demise of the latest celebrity - is that she had access to support systems and treatment at the highest level - that the poor addict on the street can only dream of.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on July 25, 2011, 07:27:04 PM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 25, 2011, 09:17:49 AM
It takes a special breed of a Dick to make my list, tonys not even in the same planet as the other two.

careful..we dont want you to have another meltdown like the last time.

To label you an out and out clown Myles would be an unfortunate injustice to clowns everywhere  :-X

I am battling a fairly serious addiction myself these days, Boost chocolate bars. Nothing like them. Hadn't had one in about ten years until a month ago.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

It's definitely advisable all the same.

Quote from: Minder on July 25, 2011, 08:59:26 PM
I am battling a fairly serious addiction myself these days, Boost chocolate bars. Nothing like them. Hadn't had one in about ten years until a month ago.

Are they like Moro's?

RIP. Incredible talent. Such a waste. She always seemed headed for complete self destruction though.

Quote from: Bogball XV on July 25, 2011, 09:04:01 PM

Quote from: Minder on July 25, 2011, 08:59:26 PM
I am battling a fairly serious addiction myself these days, Boost chocolate bars. Nothing like them. Hadn't had one in about ten years until a month ago.

Are they like Moro's?

Not familiar with that one but after a quick google they look to be one and the same.

Quote from: Minder on July 25, 2011, 08:59:26 PM
I am battling a fairly serious addiction myself these days, Boost chocolate bars. Nothing like them. Hadn't had one in about ten years until a month ago.

Poor man's Star Bar.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 09:16:12 PM

Quote from: Minder on July 25, 2011, 08:59:26 PM
I am battling a fairly serious addiction myself these days, Boost chocolate bars. Nothing like them. Hadn't had one in about ten years until a month ago.

Poor man's Star Bar.

I like the aul Star Bar myself. People say they are the same as a Moro but I don't think so.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

Does every disease have a cure? If addiction was as easy cured as you seem to think there would be some happy happy families out there.

Quote from: laoislad on July 25, 2011, 09:20:04 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 09:16:12 PM

Quote from: Minder on July 25, 2011, 08:59:26 PM
I am battling a fairly serious addiction myself these days, Boost chocolate bars. Nothing like them. Hadn't had one in about ten years until a month ago.

Poor man's Star Bar.

I like the aul Star Bar myself. People say they are the same as a Moro but I don't think so.

I don't see the comparison at all, the Moro is a far superior product, but packed full of calories, I give them a wide berth or i'd be forced to give everything a wide berth :D

I think even the most addiction sympathetic posters on here would have to agree that people aren't born with addictions. Addictive personalities perhaps (although this is too often bandied about as an excuse for people finding themselves in trouble). At some stage before the addiction takes full grip, selfish and reckless decisions are made. It's an illness for sure - but it's a bit like the fella eating crap all day and just teasing the widowmaker to pop, or the 20 a day smoker ending up with lung cancer - it's preventable at the outset, which is a major part of the tragedy. There are no addicts I know who can point the finger at anyone but themselves - even after acknowledgement of them having a disease.

Quote from: Puckoon on July 25, 2011, 10:41:17 PM
I think even the most addiction sympathetic posters on here would have to agree that people aren't born with addictions. Addictive personalities perhaps (although this is too often bandied about as an excuse for people finding themselves in trouble). At some stage before the addiction takes full grip, selfish and reckless decisions are made. It's an illness for sure - but it's a bit like the fella eating crap all day and just teasing the widowmaker to pop, or the 20 a day smoker ending up with lung cancer - it's preventable at the outset, which is a major part of the tragedy. There are no addicts I know who can point the finger at anyone but themselves - even after acknowledgement of them having a disease.

Addictive personalaties = people with poor will power.

Quote from: theskull1 on July 25, 2011, 05:00:57 PM

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 25, 2011, 04:26:20 PM
Il run that past a recovering alcoholic tonight then. Will ask him due to the negative influence he has had on the world over the past number of years and the pain he put people through does he think the world would have been a better place without him. He will probably ask me to kill him there and then

No....FFS ::) ....ask him if he could understand why someone else may have thought that about him due to the hell he put them through and see what he says.

Have you asked the question yet?

Yes as predicted he agreed himself and all like him should have been wiped out long ago  ::)

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

What a load of shit. The main part of the disease is not being able to give up your addiction. So suggesting that someone simply gives up whatever it is that they are addicted too is ludicrous. You obviously don't understan the term disease in this case because the reason it is so is because they can't give it up!

Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 25, 2011, 06:41:58 PM
There's some c***ts on this board.

It's an accurate subset of society.

I didn't like her. There I said it.

However Brand's article (I don't like him either) made me think for a while because I do feel sorry for people when they die, no matter who they are and I also feel sorry for their families. However that clashes with me not liking them.

Brand used the word tragedy.

I agree with him. It is a tragedy for Winehouse, her friends and her family. And any tragedy can bring on pangs of sympathy.

Her fans will get over it tomorrow, when they find a new fad. However her family won't. Brand was right, it is a tragedy.

Says more than prose could. A reflection on the effects of addiction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jakfq_6TVGw&feature=player_detailpage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jakfq_6TVGw&feature=player_detailpage)

Quote from: supersub on July 25, 2011, 11:36:08 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

What a load of shit. The main part of the disease is not being able to give up your addiction. So suggesting that someone simply gives up whatever it is that they are addicted too is ludicrous. You obviously don't understan the term disease in this case because the reason it is so is because they can't give it up!

People give it (whatever it happens to be) up every day. Because they choose to. It's not easy, but they do it. They make the choice and fight the addiction.

Russell Brand's article is as much about Russell Brand as it is Amy Winehouse.

I hadn't taken much notice of this thread as I wasn't a great fan of Amy Winehouse's music and felt she suffered from having the word "genius" applied to her at an early age.  It's very sad she has passed away and I feel for her family and friends. 

However I note this morning that one of her friends has revealed that she (Amy) once spat at Pippa Middleton.

Amy Winehouse RIP.

Anyone trying to beat an addiction has to firstly want to give up.  Too many celebs/normal people go off drink, drugs or whatever and then go back to running around with the same people, going to the same places and eventually doing the same drugs, drinking, etc. If people really want to quit they shouldn't be associating themselves with the same environments where their addiction stemmed from. If you want to quit, just quit and avoid people and places where you'll be tempted to regress.  Mental strength and the will to quit has to be the main reasons for quiting, not somebody else saying you should quit.

Didnt really want to get involved in this debate but the addiction thing is very interesting.

If you ever get the chance or have the misfortnue, check out Celebrity Rehab, follows a bunch of celebs with different addictions in a clinic being supervised 24/7. Just have to listen to the bullshit that they go over to get a sense of the selfishness that they show to every aspect of their lives.

It kind of summed up this celebrity driven life of excess that these people get involved in and the sad fact is that, that industry is in turn drive by those magazines that photogrpah them faling out of clubs and record exec's that just see the next big album etc.

This was on the guardian site

ReturnofQ

23 July 2011 7:43PM

If consumer-capitalism ever does enter an entropic phase and begin to shut down, I hope the first institution to go is the vile pop music industry. Too many young people like Amy are sacrificed to its twin imperatives of authorising hedonistic excess and ecapism and pushing performers into bursts of creativity that they are not capable of responding to. She was not 'great', she was just a young girl with a pretty decent voice and a few songs - nothing more and nothing less - and she should have lived a happy life singing them to appreciative audiences.


* iloveyousew

23 July 2011 7:27PM

I just can't believe she's actually gone. It saddens me that we live in a world where someone with so many problems can just be deserted and worse still encourage by those around them. I hope she has found some peace now and Back to Black will remain one of my favourite albums.

Quote from: seafoid on July 26, 2011, 04:58:46 PM
This was on the guardian site

ReturnofQ

23 July 2011 7:43PM

If consumer-capitalism ever does enter an entropic phase and begin to shut down, I hope the first institution to go is the vile pop music industry. Too many young people like Amy are sacrificed to its twin imperatives of authorising hedonistic excess and ecapism and pushing performers into bursts of creativity that they are not capable of responding to. She was not 'great', she was just a young girl with a pretty decent voice and a few songs - nothing more and nothing less - and she should have lived a happy life singing them to appreciative audiences.


* iloveyousew

23 July 2011 7:27PM

I just can't believe she's actually gone. It saddens me that we live in a world where someone with so many problems can just be deserted and worse still encourage by those around them. I hope she has found some peace now and Back to Black will remain one of my favourite albums.

Surprise surprise

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on July 26, 2011, 04:10:02 PM
If you want to know why mental health still carries a heavy stigma in Ireland, this thread is a good reflection of it.  :-\

:-[

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 26, 2011, 12:57:34 AM

Quote from: supersub on July 25, 2011, 11:36:08 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

What a load of shit. The main part of the disease is not being able to give up your addiction. So suggesting that someone simply gives up whatever it is that they are addicted too is ludicrous. You obviously don't understan the term disease in this case because the reason it is so is because they can't give it up!

People give it (whatever it happens to be) up every day. Because they choose to. It's not easy, but they do it. They make the choice and fight the addiction.

It's just not as simple as that in a lot of cases. The best help can be given and in some very sad cases this is not enough, they can stop for a while and then go at it again, we aren't talking about just giving up a cigarette or two here which is hard for people at the best of times. Being in the right frame of mind to make the decision and see what you are doing to those around you by not giving up is more than half the battle and in some cases people cannot make this judgment. I am witnessing it first hand myself I know what I am talking about.

Quote from: supersub on July 27, 2011, 01:28:48 AMIt's just not as simple as that in a lot of cases. The best help can be given and in some very sad cases this is not enough, they can stop for a while and then go at it again, we aren't talking about just giving up a cigarette or two here which is hard for people at the best of times. Being in the right frame of mind to make the decision and see what you are doing to those around you by not giving up is more than half the battle and in some cases people cannot make this judgment. I am witnessing it first hand myself I know what I am talking about.

There's also the probability of underlying mental health issues as Fionntamhnach alluded to.  Trying to cope with all of these issues whilst having paparrazzi film your every move can't make it easier to deal with.
Is there really much difference in dying from drug related issues and suicide?

The poor lady all the same. She was a unique talent with a startling voice but this just shows the price of addiction and how despite everyones - friends, family etc best efforts the addict is the one who has to make the greatest effort and it looks like eventually she couldn't get there. In an age of x factor and talent shows hers shone out beyond all the rest

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 27, 2011, 10:52:24 AM

Quote from: supersub on July 27, 2011, 01:28:48 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 26, 2011, 12:57:34 AM

Quote from: supersub on July 25, 2011, 11:36:08 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

What a load of shit. The main part of the disease is not being able to give up your addiction. So suggesting that someone simply gives up whatever it is that they are addicted too is ludicrous. You obviously don't understan the term disease in this case because the reason it is so is because they can't give it up!

People give it (whatever it happens to be) up every day. Because they choose to. It's not easy, but they do it. They make the choice and fight the addiction.

It's just not as simple as that in a lot of cases. The best help can be given and in some very sad cases this is not enough, they can stop for a while and then go at it again, we aren't talking about just giving up a cigarette or two here which is hard for people at the best of times. Being in the right frame of mind to make the decision and see what you are doing to those around you by not giving up is more than half the battle and in some cases people cannot make this judgment. I am witnessing it first hand myself I know what I am talking about.

Agree 100%. Witnessing it first hand is hell and the destruction it causes is harrowing and extremely sad. I have seen cases where someone has stopped for 20 years and went back on it. He never got back to AA and never got better. He died.
Seen another man couldnt get more than 2 days off it. He died.
Another person extremely close is battling it day in day out. He doesnt want to be like this. He wants to be like any normal person and go out on a saturday night and have a few pints. He cant do this. Its accepting that hes mentally different than others is half the battle. He has done this. Goes to AA at least 5 nights of the week. It isnt just as easy as deciding never to drink again or deciding to stop whats bad for you. This fella knows what will destroy him, knows he needs to stop and is trying as much as is physically and mentally possible. Some weeks it isnt overly hard for him, other weeks its extremely hard. He knows it will kill him eventually if he cant get the proper grip on it but will that stop him? Even he doesnt know. He can only hope that with the grace of god he can keep doing what he is doing. He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it.
People who think that kind of condition isnt a mental problem or a disease needs their own heads looked at.

Great post.
Wait for the 'But' though. ::)

"He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it."

This is the kind of crap that AA tell people with alcohol problems. The fact is that there are loads of people out there who have managed to stop drinking on their own and are not 'one drink away from it'. One size does not fit all. Total abstinence may also not be necessary, I know one person who would have been described as an alcoholic who now sips two beers all night and never a drop more.

Also. telling people with an alcohol problem that they are powerless isn't helpful in my opinion.

We will agree to disagree on the one drink away from it. Its my experience with it that going back to even a touch of it does more harm than good. In fact i personally cant see how an alcoholic or a drug user could take two cans of beer or smoke a quarter of a joint a night. Makes no sense to me.

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 27, 2011, 11:31:14 AM
"He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it."

This is the kind of crap that AA tell people with alcohol problems. The fact is that there are loads of people out there who have managed to stop drinking on their own and are not 'one drink away from it'. One size does not fit all. Total abstinence may also not be necessary, I know one person who would have been described as an alcoholic who now sips two beers all night and never a drop more.

Also. telling people with an alcohol problem that they are powerless isn't helpful in my opinion.

As you point out yourself, one size does not fit all, the same word is used to describe many different cases.  In the case you describe, maybe it was the wrong word in the first place.

Quote from: Bogball XV on July 27, 2011, 11:37:18 AM

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 27, 2011, 11:31:14 AM
"He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it."

This is the kind of crap that AA tell people with alcohol problems. The fact is that there are loads of people out there who have managed to stop drinking on their own and are not 'one drink away from it'. One size does not fit all. Total abstinence may also not be necessary, I know one person who would have been described as an alcoholic who now sips two beers all night and never a drop more.

Also. telling people with an alcohol problem that they are powerless isn't helpful in my opinion.

As you point out yourself, one size does not fit all, the same word is used to describe many different cases.  In the case you describe, maybe it was the wrong word in the first place.

According to the AA only he can decide if he has the disease or not so its not really for you or me to decide.

Whats with the AA bashing? It might not be everyones cup of tea and of course there are people all over the world have stopped drinking without it. But on that same note its maybe saved the lives of countless people!
What do you mean by this according to AA he can only decide if he has a disease? Thats bullshit. Thats a stance held by many not limited to the AA fellowship. I respectfully suggest the person you are talking about may not have been an alcoholic at all. If he was then "2 beers a nite and never a drop more" wouldnt be happening! Theres a huge difference in being fond of the drink and being an alcoholic. The same way theres a difference in being fond of the odd joint and being a drug addict or being fond of junk food without with a food addict!!

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 27, 2011, 10:52:24 AM

Quote from: supersub on July 27, 2011, 01:28:48 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 26, 2011, 12:57:34 AM

Quote from: supersub on July 25, 2011, 11:36:08 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

What a load of shit. The main part of the disease is not being able to give up your addiction. So suggesting that someone simply gives up whatever it is that they are addicted too is ludicrous. You obviously don't understan the term disease in this case because the reason it is so is because they can't give it up!

People give it (whatever it happens to be) up every day. Because they choose to. It's not easy, but they do it. They make the choice and fight the addiction.

It's just not as simple as that in a lot of cases. The best help can be given and in some very sad cases this is not enough, they can stop for a while and then go at it again, we aren't talking about just giving up a cigarette or two here which is hard for people at the best of times. Being in the right frame of mind to make the decision and see what you are doing to those around you by not giving up is more than half the battle and in some cases people cannot make this judgment. I am witnessing it first hand myself I know what I am talking about.

Agree 100%. Witnessing it first hand is hell and the destruction it causes is harrowing and extremely sad. I have seen cases where someone has stopped for 20 years and went back on it. He never got back to AA and never got better. He died.
Seen another man couldnt get more than 2 days off it. He died.
Another person extremely close is battling it day in day out. He doesnt want to be like this. He wants to be like any normal person and go out on a saturday night and have a few pints. He cant do this. Its accepting that hes mentally different than others is half the battle. He has done this. Goes to AA at least 5 nights of the week. It isnt just as easy as deciding never to drink again or deciding to stop whats bad for you. This fella knows what will destroy him, knows he needs to stop and is trying as much as is physically and mentally possible. Some weeks it isnt overly hard for him, other weeks its extremely hard. He knows it will kill him eventually if he cant get the proper grip on it but will that stop him? Even he doesnt know. He can only hope that with the grace of god he can keep doing what he is doing. He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it.
People who think that kind of condition isnt a mental problem or a disease needs their own heads looked at.

It is. That's the starting point. After that you seek help if you need it.

A close family member was a chronic alcoholic - at it all day every day and maybe eating every 3 or 4 days. He was drinking himself to death. Some people actually said he wasn't an alcoholic as he only drank pints  :-\. He decided to quit and did it with no help from counsellors, AA or medication. Sheer will power.

There is a man up at home that is an alcoholic but hasn't touched a drop in years and owned and was actively running a pub up until recently.

The starting point is to want to stop but I agree that all cases aren't the same.

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 27, 2011, 12:16:26 PM
Whats with the AA bashing? It might not be everyones cup of tea and of course there are people all over the world have stopped drinking without it. But on that same note its maybe saved the lives of countless people!
What do you mean by this according to AA he can only decide if he has a disease? Thats bullshit. Thats a stance held by many not limited to the AA fellowship. I respectfully suggest the person you are talking about may not have been an alcoholic at all. If he was then "2 beers a nite and never a drop more" wouldnt be happening! Theres a huge difference in being fond of the drink and being an alcoholic. The same way theres a difference in being fond of the odd joint and being a drug addict or being fond of junk food without with a food addict!!

It not bullshit..check it out.

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/newcomers/?PageID=78

You seem to have an idea of alcoholism as an incurable disease. In my opinion, it is not incurable. There are people who have been alcoholics and who no longer drink and have no desire to drink ever again.

An addict loves being in an enviroment where there are loved ones around him who believe he's not in control of his affliction. My belief is that those understanding supportive loved ones by thinking this gives him zero incentive to get his finger out of his ass and make a change. He ends up milking all around him...... "Ugh....god love him/her"  :-\

Take a sugary sweet TG before you screw the face up at such unpalatable opinions.

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on July 26, 2011, 04:10:02 PM
If you want to know why mental health still carries a heavy stigma in Ireland, this thread is a good reflection of it.  :-\

Well said.

If they have reached the stage where they have NO desire to drink then they have recovered. Why would they drink again or even wish to become a normal drinker (whatever that is), if they had no desire to touch the stuff?

Quote from: tyrone girl on July 27, 2011, 02:30:23 PM
Totally agree with you in thats the starting point and do agree its all dependant on how much the person wants to stop, obviously if they dont want to stop they cannot be helped. Of course there are people with pure willpower that dont depend on AA or medication etc and i admire them for it.

Arthur and Skull dont bloody patronise me. As for your assumption that people who were once alcoholics and no longer drink so they are no longer alcoholics i think thats rubbish. They are recovering alcoholics. Id imagine all recovering alcoholics have no desire to ever drink again. That doesnt mean they wont. If they do take a drink ever in their whole lifetime then what do they become? Normal drinkers?

Believe it or not Skull i agree entirely on what you said about an addict being in an enviroment where loved ones around him/ her pander to their every move. Have seen tough love applied and its worked.  I dont see anyone in the immediate family of any of these people saying god love him / her type thing. They pity the person to the extent that its horrible but at the same time have anger and frustration that this person cant try to seek help.
All the interventions in the world cant help someone who doesnt want to be helped.  That however is only half the battle. Wanting to be helped and wanting to stay off it doesnt mean you have beaten it, it only means you can try your best and hope that your best is enough!

I patronise you TG because your such a drama queen when you read an unsavory opinion thats not one you share but you don't actually deal with points I make. I still am trying to understand why it shouldn't be seen retrospectively as a good thing if someone who has a massively negative influence on the world around them dies? Anders Breivik father certainly agrees with me. Maybe you're saying that a chronic drug addict or alcoholic can bring alot of positives to the world..I don't know...maybe you can explain.

You say you agree with "tough love" but from reading all the posts you've delivered in this threads I don't really think you do. You've been pitying the addicts from the get go and if you have any addicts in your immediate family make no mistake they will have latched on to all that pity and become reliant on it as they try to maintian their habit. I think what you're calling "tough love" is not what I would class as "tough love".

TG could I suggest you dont contribute to threads like these as it would appear that you get too emotionally charged by opinions not aligned to your own. My view on these type of topics is that it's good to hear all the varying points of view and discuss them rationally but it's obvious you wouldn't be from the same school of thought.

"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

Quote from: theskull1 on July 27, 2011, 03:42:52 PM
TG could I suggest you dont contribute to threads like these as it would appear that you get too emotionally charged by opinions not aligned to your own. My view on these type of topics is that it's good to hear all the varying points of view and discuss them rationally but it's obvious you wouldn't be from the same school of thought.

:D You're clearly patronising....there are a fair few here including your good self
who'd do well to practice what you preach, hilarious actually!

Plenty of drug addicts have contributed to the world as we know it, many when still addicted. Of the top of my head

Phil Lynott
Jimi Hendrix
Kurt Kobain
Jim Morrison
Elvis
Shane McGowan
Christy Moore

Actually, pretty much every rock band there has ever been from the Beattles to Black Sabbath. Many were able to get their act together, some never fully beat the addiction and some took too much in the one sitting and overdosed.

To quote the legendary Bill Hicks "And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were rrreal f**king high on drugs. The Beatles were so f**king high they let Ringo sing a few tunes."

ie- abusing or being addicted to drugs does not make you a waste of oxygen that the world would be better off with

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 27, 2011, 04:06:22 PM
"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

You're fond of the auld drink yourself Freend. Any swallies about home lately?

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/amy-winehouse-goodnight-my-angel-sleep-tight-daddy-loves-you-2831819.html


Amy Winehouse: Goodnight, my angel, sleep tight, Daddy loves you


Wednesday Jul 27 2011

The grief-stricken father of singer Amy Winehouse told her to "sleep tight" yesterday as her family and friends said their last goodbyes.

In a heartfelt eulogy, Mitch Winehouse told mourners his daughter had "conquered" her drug addiction, was "trying hard to deal with her drinking", and was happier than she had been for a long time.

The Grammy-award winning singer, who had battled drink and drug problems throughout her career, was found dead at her home in Camden on Saturday.

RELATED LINKS
Hilson sorry for Winehouse gaffe
The funeral service at Edgwarebury Cemetery in north London ended to the strains of her favourite song, Carole King's 'So Far Away'.

Mr Winehouse said his daughter was trying to deal with her drinking and had recently "just completed three weeks of abstinence", adding that she told him: "Dad I've had enough of drinking, I can't stand the look on your and the family's faces anymore."

He also revealed plans to set up a foundation in his daughter's name to help people struggling with addiction.

He added: "Knowing she wasn't depressed, knowing she passed away, knowing she passed away happy, it makes us all feel better."

His eulogy ended with the words: "Goodnight, my angel, sleep tight. Mummy and Daddy love you ever so much."

Among the guests at the service, which included prayers in English and Hebrew, were stylist Alex Foden, who has been credited with creating Winehouse's trademark beehive hairdo, producer Mark Ronson and singer Kelly Osbourne.

Winehouse's bandmates, Zalon and Heshima Thompson, were among the select group included in the private ceremony which, according to Jewish law, had to take place as soon as possible after the star's death.

A spokesman for the family said: "Mitch was funny, he told some great stories from childhood about how headstrong she was. He stressed so many times she was happier now than she had ever been and he spoke about her boyfriend and paid tribute to a lot of people in her life."

After the service, which was led by Rabbi Frank Hellner, Winehouse's body was taken to Golders Green Crematorium.

Alfie Ezekiel, a friend of Amy's father, said: "Mitch gave a very good eulogy and he managed to get through it very well, considering.

"He said everything. I don't want to go into detail but his last words were 'Goodnight, my sweetheart'."

He said the service -- during which Mr Winehouse was the only family member to speak -- was "joyful" and "celebrated" the 27-year-old singer's life.

"It was very moving," he added. The 55-year-old, from Loughton, Essex, said between 300 and 400 mourners attended the service.

Some guests appeared to be fighting back tears as they walked away hand in hand, or with their heads bowed.

One mourner, who did not want to give her name, said the ceremony had been "wonderful" but was unable to say more.

Describing Mr Winehouse's eulogy, another added: "It was emotional. He said that she would be carried in his heart.

Winehouse's closest relatives and friends, including her mother Janis, brother Alex and her boyfriend Reg Traviss, then travelled to the crematorium .

The funeral comes after police revealed they will have to wait up to four weeks for the results of toxicology tests to establish her cause of death.

A post-mortem examination has proved inconclusive and an inquest has been opened and adjourned with no cause of death given.



Read more: http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/amy-winehouse-goodnight-my-angel-sleep-tight-daddy-loves-you-2831819.html#ixzz1TJwx1DHl

Quote from: theskull1 on July 27, 2011, 03:07:42 PM
I still am trying to understand why it shouldn't be seen retrospectively as a good thing if someone who has a massively negative influence on the world around them dies?

What has that got to do with addiction? Would you apply the same rationale to someone with a mental health problem.

And how do you measure whether someone has a 'massively negative influence on the world around them'? Can you say that Amy Winehouse did? How do you measure negatives against positives?

Quote from: Maguire01 on July 27, 2011, 04:45:46 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on July 27, 2011, 03:07:42 PM
I still am trying to understand why it shouldn't be seen retrospectively as a good thing if someone who has a massively negative influence on the world around them dies?

What has that got to do with addiction? Would you apply the same rationale to someone with a mental health problem.

And how do you measure whether someone has a 'massively negative influence on the world around them'? Can you say that Amy Winehouse did? How do you measure negatives against positives?

What has that got to do with addiction?
I wasn't just referring to addicion ..it was a general point about people who are a massively negative drain on the world around them. Alot of drug addicts would fall into that catagory. Maybe if you have the financial wealth to fund your habit and live without beg borrowing or stealing in realitive comfort then you aren't as big a drain on those close to you.

Would you apply the same rationale to someone with a mental health problem.
I could see some people with loved ones who have massive mental or physical disabilities for years which required massive support from those around them retrospectively looking back after those people had died and thinking it was for the best that are now not of this world yes. But I can also see situations where that wouldn't be the case.

And how do you measure whether someone has a 'massively negative influence on the world around them'?
Only those very close to that person would judge that for themselves individually.

Can you say that Amy Winehouse did?
Only those very close to her would know that. I am talking about people close to these people (family/friends...not fans)

How do you measure negatives against positives?
An abacus   ::)

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 27, 2011, 04:06:22 PM
"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

I'm confused Arthur... I was going to back you up after one of your posts suggested that an acquaintance of yours could now enjoy a few drinks after being an alcoholic, now you are saying that never is never?

Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 27, 2011, 11:12:00 PM

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 27, 2011, 04:06:22 PM
"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

I'm confused Arthur... I was going to back you up after one of your posts suggested that an acquaintance of yours could now enjoy a few drinks after being an alcoholic, now you are saying that never is never?

Sorry for the confusion Barry. I do know personally of one person who was addicted to alcohol, stopped his behaviour, removed himself from the environment he was in and now only sips a few beers if he fancies it. Never gets drunk. This was after a few years of abstinence. I quizzed him about it and he said he doesn't like to get drunk any more, end of story. Perhaps most people would go straight back to their old behaviour.

The point I was trying to make above is in regard to the term 'recovering alcoholic' used to describe an alcoholic who has stopped drinking completely. I was making the point that if they no longer desire a drink they have fully recovered. I accept that if someone stops drinking and struggles against it on a daily basis even for 10 or 20 years, they are surely still addicted.

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 28, 2011, 10:25:48 AM

Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 27, 2011, 11:12:00 PM

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 27, 2011, 04:06:22 PM
"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

I'm confused Arthur... I was going to back you up after one of your posts suggested that an acquaintance of yours could now enjoy a few drinks after being an alcoholic, now you are saying that never is never?

Sorry for the confusion Barry. I do know personally of one person who was addicted to alcohol, stopped his behaviour, removed himself from the environment he was in and now only sips a few beers if he fancies it. Never gets drunk. This was after a few years of abstinence. I quizzed him about it and he said he doesn't like to get drunk any more, end of story. Perhaps most people would go straight back to their old behaviour.

The point I was trying to make above is in regard to the term 'recovering alcoholic' used to describe an alcoholic who has stopped drinking completely. I was making the point that if they no longer desire a drink they have fully recovered. I accept that if someone stops drinking and struggles against it on a daily basis even for 10 or 20 years, they are surely still addicted.

I don't know what the exact definition of an alcoholic is but by my own definition I would not say your friend is an alcoholic. Rather he was very fond of the drink and decided to stop. For me alcoholics are in some way almost chemically addicted, they cannot simply stop. I know the type of guy your friend is, I know lads that are just bored and spend every waking minute in the pub but at the same time can quit for 6 months without much difficulty until the boredom sets in. In my opinion these guys are normally stuck in a rut where their social life revolves around the pub. The type I consider to be alcoholics are the people who simply cannot stop without help, people who will rob to feed their habit. People who wake themselves up in the night to skull a bottle of whiskey and have another one for breakfast. People that even when they are told their liver is about to give up on them and they will die - still must have a drink. Imo these are two very different cases. I'm not sure which Amy Winehouse belonged to but I am guessing the latter.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 28, 2011, 10:38:13 AM

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 28, 2011, 10:25:48 AM

Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 27, 2011, 11:12:00 PM

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on July 27, 2011, 04:06:22 PM
"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

I'm confused Arthur... I was going to back you up after one of your posts suggested that an acquaintance of yours could now enjoy a few drinks after being an alcoholic, now you are saying that never is never?

Sorry for the confusion Barry. I do know personally of one person who was addicted to alcohol, stopped his behaviour, removed himself from the environment he was in and now only sips a few beers if he fancies it. Never gets drunk. This was after a few years of abstinence. I quizzed him about it and he said he doesn't like to get drunk any more, end of story. Perhaps most people would go straight back to their old behaviour.

The point I was trying to make above is in regard to the term 'recovering alcoholic' used to describe an alcoholic who has stopped drinking completely. I was making the point that if they no longer desire a drink they have fully recovered. I accept that if someone stops drinking and struggles against it on a daily basis even for 10 or 20 years, they are surely still addicted.

I don't know what the exact definition of an alcoholic is but by my own definition I would not say your friend is an alcoholic. Rather he was very fond of the drink and decided to stop. For me alcoholics are in some way almost chemically addicted, they cannot simply stop. I know the type of guy your friend is, I know lads that are just bored and spend every waking minute in the pub but at the same time can quit for 6 months without much difficulty until the boredom sets in. In my opinion these guys are normally stuck in a rut where their social life revolves around the pub. The type I consider to be alcoholics are the people who simply cannot stop without help, people who will rob to feed their habit. People who wake themselves up in the night to skull a bottle of whiskey and have another one for breakfast. People that even when they are told their liver is about to give up on them and they will die - still must have a drink. Imo these are two very different cases. I'm not sure which Amy Winehouse belonged to but I am guessing the latter.

Myles I have to strongly disagree with you there.  There are many types of alcoholics and people in Ireland in particular refuse to accept that the lad/lassie who, as you put it "can quit for 6 months" , are actually alcoholics.  They are binge drinking alcoholics and trust me they are every bit as bad as the daily tippler.  If anything they are worse.  I don't know how much personal experience you have of alcoholics but I have significant experience at first hand the damage and devastation to families that is created by binge alcoholics.  You don't know when the next binge is coming but you can read the signs, the edginess, the irritability, the late nights that were not there before, the absent-mindedness, the drifting out of conversations.  There are many signs and each one different for each person.  The fall-out from a binge drinker can be devastating both emotionally, physically and financially because for that weekend or week or month or however long they drink nothing else matters.  They will spend any money they have and will go without because of it and will allow their families to go without, they will fight with whoever they want no matter who they are, they will say/write the most vicious and evil things that to any sane person are completely incomprehensibly nasty but to the alcoholic are just par for the course, they wreck lives full stop.  Be under no allusions but the weekend binge alcoholics that are so prevalent in Ireland are a scourge on our country, the binge drinker is a scourge on our country and to say people are just stuck in a rut is a form of excusitis that hides an underlying problem that has been ignored for too long.

Fair enough bc. Maybe each an every case is different. I've never come across anyone like you described. The central point I was making was that someone who is addicted can't be mixed up with someone who just drinks excessively for social reasons.

What she should be remembered for.  On BBC 3 tonight.

21:00 Amy Winehouse Tribute (R) (T) Jools Holland presents a collection of performances by the singer, who died on Saturday July 23. The programme features her first appearance on Later in 2003 with songs from her debut album Frank, and her 2006 return to the show for the launch of Back to Black. Plus, her duet with Paul Weller on Hootenanny and an appearance at the 2007 Mercury Prize.     

   21:40 BBC Sessions: Amy Winehouse (R) (T) Another chance to see a showcase of tracks from the late singer's Mercury-nominated albums Back to Black and Frank in the intimate surroundings of the Porchester Hall in Bayswater, London. With a full band and backing vocalists, she swings through her greatest hits, including Rehab and You Know I'm No Good.