RIP Amy Winehouse

[ziggysego]

If you want to know why mental health still carries a heavy stigma in Ireland, this thread is a good reflection of it. 

[supersub]

If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

What a load of shit. The main part of the disease is not being able to give up your addiction. So suggesting that someone simply gives up whatever it is that they are addicted too is ludicrous. You obviously don't understan the term disease in this case because the reason it is so is because they can't give it up!

People give it (whatever it happens to be) up every day. Because they choose to. It's not easy, but they do it. They make the choice and fight the addiction.

It's just not as simple as that in a lot of cases. The best help can be given and in some very sad cases this is not enough, they can stop for a while and then go at it again, we aren't talking about just giving up a cigarette or two here which is hard for people at the best of times. Being in the right frame of mind to make the decision and see what you are doing to those around you by not giving up is more than half the battle and in some cases people cannot make this judgment. I am witnessing it first hand myself I know what I am talking about.

[Bogball XV]

It's just not as simple as that in a lot of cases. The best help can be given and in some very sad cases this is not enough, they can stop for a while and then go at it again, we aren't talking about just giving up a cigarette or two here which is hard for people at the best of times. Being in the right frame of mind to make the decision and see what you are doing to those around you by not giving up is more than half the battle and in some cases people cannot make this judgment. I am witnessing it first hand myself I know what I am talking about.

There's also the probability of underlying mental health issues as Fionntamhnach alluded to.  Trying to cope with all of these issues whilst having paparrazzi film your every move can't make it easier to deal with.
Is there really much difference in dying from drug related issues and suicide?

[hectorsheroes]

The poor lady all the same. She was a unique talent with a startling voice but this just shows the price of addiction and how despite everyones - friends, family etc best efforts the addict is the one who has to make the greatest effort and it looks like eventually she couldn't get there. In an age of x factor and talent shows hers shone out beyond all the rest

[boojangles]

If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

What a load of shit. The main part of the disease is not being able to give up your addiction. So suggesting that someone simply gives up whatever it is that they are addicted too is ludicrous. You obviously don't understan the term disease in this case because the reason it is so is because they can't give it up!

People give it (whatever it happens to be) up every day. Because they choose to. It's not easy, but they do it. They make the choice and fight the addiction.

It's just not as simple as that in a lot of cases. The best help can be given and in some very sad cases this is not enough, they can stop for a while and then go at it again, we aren't talking about just giving up a cigarette or two here which is hard for people at the best of times. Being in the right frame of mind to make the decision and see what you are doing to those around you by not giving up is more than half the battle and in some cases people cannot make this judgment. I am witnessing it first hand myself I know what I am talking about.

Agree 100%. Witnessing it first hand is hell and the destruction it causes is harrowing and extremely sad. I have seen cases where someone has stopped for 20 years and went back on it. He never got back to AA and never got better. He died.
Seen another man couldnt get more than 2 days off it. He died.
Another person extremely close is battling it day in day out. He doesnt want to be like this. He wants to be like any normal person and go out on a saturday night and have a few pints. He cant do this. Its accepting that hes mentally different than others is half the battle. He has done this. Goes to AA at least 5 nights of the week. It isnt just as easy as deciding never to drink again or deciding to stop whats bad for you. This fella knows what will destroy him, knows he needs to stop and is trying as much as is physically and mentally possible. Some weeks it isnt overly hard for him, other weeks its extremely hard. He knows it will kill him eventually if he cant get the proper grip on it but will that stop him? Even he doesnt know. He can only hope that with the grace of god he can keep doing what he is doing. He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it.
People who think that kind of condition isnt a mental problem or a disease needs their own heads looked at.

Great post.
Wait for the 'But' though.

[Arthur_Friend]

"He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it."

This is the kind of crap that AA tell people with alcohol problems. The fact is that there are loads of people out there who have managed to stop drinking on their own and are not 'one drink away from it'. One size does not fit all. Total abstinence may also not be necessary, I know one person who would have been described as an alcoholic who now sips two beers all night and never a drop more.

Also. telling people with an alcohol problem that they are powerless isn't helpful in my opinion.

[tyrone girl]

We will agree to disagree on the one drink away from it. Its my experience with it that going back to even a touch of it does more harm than good. In fact i personally cant see how an alcoholic or a drug user could take two cans of beer or smoke a quarter of a joint a night. Makes no sense to me.

[Bogball XV]

"He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it."

This is the kind of crap that AA tell people with alcohol problems. The fact is that there are loads of people out there who have managed to stop drinking on their own and are not 'one drink away from it'. One size does not fit all. Total abstinence may also not be necessary, I know one person who would have been described as an alcoholic who now sips two beers all night and never a drop more.

Also. telling people with an alcohol problem that they are powerless isn't helpful in my opinion.

As you point out yourself, one size does not fit all, the same word is used to describe many different cases.  In the case you describe, maybe it was the wrong word in the first place.

[Arthur_Friend]

"He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it."

This is the kind of crap that AA tell people with alcohol problems. The fact is that there are loads of people out there who have managed to stop drinking on their own and are not 'one drink away from it'. One size does not fit all. Total abstinence may also not be necessary, I know one person who would have been described as an alcoholic who now sips two beers all night and never a drop more.

Also. telling people with an alcohol problem that they are powerless isn't helpful in my opinion.

As you point out yourself, one size does not fit all, the same word is used to describe many different cases.  In the case you describe, maybe it was the wrong word in the first place.

According to the AA only he can decide if he has the disease or not so its not really for you or me to decide.

[tyrone girl]

Whats with the AA bashing? It might not be everyones cup of tea and of course there are people all over the world have stopped drinking without it. But on that same note its maybe saved the lives of countless people!
What do you mean by this according to AA he can only decide if he has a disease? Thats bullshit. Thats a stance held by many not limited to the AA fellowship. I respectfully suggest the person you are talking about may not have been an alcoholic at all. If he was then "2 beers a nite and never a drop more" wouldnt be happening! Theres a huge difference in being fond of the drink and being an alcoholic. The same way theres a difference in being fond of the odd joint and being a drug addict or being fond of junk food without with a food addict!!

[Tony Baloney]

If addiction is a disease, it has a cure. Stop taking whatever it is that is bad for you - you don't even need medicine or a medical professional.

I'd rather take my chances with that than cancer.

Youse are hammering Skull for having an opinion outside your own as if he has never met an addict before. In Ireland there are very few people that haven't had an alcoholic in their immediate or extended family, so I'd reckon skull isn't speaking from total ignorance of addiction.

What a load of shit. The main part of the disease is not being able to give up your addiction. So suggesting that someone simply gives up whatever it is that they are addicted too is ludicrous. You obviously don't understan the term disease in this case because the reason it is so is because they can't give it up!

People give it (whatever it happens to be) up every day. Because they choose to. It's not easy, but they do it. They make the choice and fight the addiction.

It's just not as simple as that in a lot of cases. The best help can be given and in some very sad cases this is not enough, they can stop for a while and then go at it again, we aren't talking about just giving up a cigarette or two here which is hard for people at the best of times. Being in the right frame of mind to make the decision and see what you are doing to those around you by not giving up is more than half the battle and in some cases people cannot make this judgment. I am witnessing it first hand myself I know what I am talking about.

Agree 100%. Witnessing it first hand is hell and the destruction it causes is harrowing and extremely sad. I have seen cases where someone has stopped for 20 years and went back on it. He never got back to AA and never got better. He died.
Seen another man couldnt get more than 2 days off it. He died.
Another person extremely close is battling it day in day out. He doesnt want to be like this. He wants to be like any normal person and go out on a saturday night and have a few pints. He cant do this. Its accepting that hes mentally different than others is half the battle. He has done this. Goes to AA at least 5 nights of the week. It isnt just as easy as deciding never to drink again or deciding to stop whats bad for you. This fella knows what will destroy him, knows he needs to stop and is trying as much as is physically and mentally possible. Some weeks it isnt overly hard for him, other weeks its extremely hard. He knows it will kill him eventually if he cant get the proper grip on it but will that stop him? Even he doesnt know. He can only hope that with the grace of god he can keep doing what he is doing. He doesnt know what tomorrow will bring and doesnt matter if you are recovering 20 hours, 20 days or 20 years. They are always only one drink away from it.
People who think that kind of condition isnt a mental problem or a disease needs their own heads looked at.

It is. That's the starting point. After that you seek help if you need it.

A close family member was a chronic alcoholic - at it all day every day and maybe eating every 3 or 4 days. He was drinking himself to death. Some people actually said he wasn't an alcoholic as he only drank pints  . He decided to quit and did it with no help from counsellors, AA or medication. Sheer will power.

There is a man up at home that is an alcoholic but hasn't touched a drop in years and owned and was actively running a pub up until recently.

The starting point is to want to stop but I agree that all cases aren't the same.

[Arthur_Friend]

Whats with the AA bashing? It might not be everyones cup of tea and of course there are people all over the world have stopped drinking without it. But on that same note its maybe saved the lives of countless people!
What do you mean by this according to AA he can only decide if he has a disease? Thats bullshit. Thats a stance held by many not limited to the AA fellowship. I respectfully suggest the person you are talking about may not have been an alcoholic at all. If he was then "2 beers a nite and never a drop more" wouldnt be happening! Theres a huge difference in being fond of the drink and being an alcoholic. The same way theres a difference in being fond of the odd joint and being a drug addict or being fond of junk food without with a food addict!!

It not bullshit..check it out.

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/newcomers/?PageID=78

You seem to have an idea of alcoholism as an incurable disease. In my opinion, it is not incurable. There are people who have been alcoholics and who no longer drink and have no desire to drink ever again.

[theskull1]

An addict loves being in an enviroment where there are loved ones around him who believe he's not in control of his affliction. My belief is that those understanding supportive loved ones by thinking this gives him zero incentive to get his finger out of his ass and make a change. He ends up milking all around him...... "Ugh....god love him/her" 

Take a sugary sweet TG before you screw the face up at such unpalatable opinions.

[magpie seanie]

If you want to know why mental health still carries a heavy stigma in Ireland, this thread is a good reflection of it. 

Well said.

[Arthur_Friend]

If they have reached the stage where they have NO desire to drink then they have recovered. Why would they drink again or even wish to become a normal drinker (whatever that is), if they had no desire to touch the stuff?