Ive listened fairly intently to Enda Kenny over the last 2 weeks with an open mind. Im sorry to say that Im asolutely convinced that the biggest bluffer I have ever heard in politics is about to be handed the leadership reins in Ireland. His party are more resemblent to a "Fianna Fail lite" and I doubt their ability to provide anything original or indeed thoughtful in terms of management. If I was running anything from a family to a business in the South I would be very nervous indeed. The people who vote FG in can no longer blame the government for wrecking the country.
Agreed.
The whole thing would make you sick. The biggest issue in the election has been kicked to touch and I don't expect Kenny or anyone else in such a pro-Europe party to stand up for Ireland which really has to be done.
The people of Ireland will save Ireland and the Civil Servants will run the country. All we can hope is that the new government can direct the Civil Servant in the right direction.
Quote from: rrhf on February 24, 2011, 03:43:13 PM
Ive listened fairly intently to Enda Kenny over the last 2 weeks with an open mind. Im sorry to say that Im asolutely convinced that the biggest bluffer I have ever heard in politics is about to be handed the leadership reins in Ireland. His party are more resemblent to a "Fianna Fail lite" and I doubt their ability to provide anything original or indeed thoughtful in terms of management. If I was running anything from a family to a business in the South I would be very nervous indeed. The people who vote FG in can no longer blame the government for wrecking the country.
There is no 'man to save Ireland'. There is no 'woman to save Ireland'. Ireland is the bitch of the IMF / EU thanks to Micheál Martin, Brian Cowen, Brian Lenihan and all the other clowns that for the last decade and a half and partied in the Galway tent while hiking up public servants' pay, dropping taxes when it wasn't necessary and not bothering their arses to check and see if the bloody financial regulator was doing his job. Not to mention the bank guarantee. Not to mention cosy golf games with half of Anglo Irish Bank. Not to mention setting up the HSE. Not to mention running from the electorate with king-size pensions the second that the going got rough. >:(
Enda Kenny is a poor public speaker. He is, at the very best, a medicore debater. But the electorate realise that he knows how to build a team around him full of people that know more about their respective policy areas than he does. He also appears - at this juncture anyway - not to be stained by corruption.
Put simply, there is no way he would have lasted 9 years as leader of Fine Gael, dragging them from a mere 31 seats in 2002 to 51 seats in 2007 to maybe 71+ this weekend, if he was as much of a clown as he's being made out to be.
Yes, we'd all love if he was a commanding speaker, a combative debater, and as on top of his brief as he should be. But Ahern and Cowen were all of those things, and were disastrous leaders. Given what has gone before him, Kenny at least deserves his shot.
inda kenny is going to be the next project coordinator (not project manager or Taoiseach).
He is apparantly a great organiser and will have his best men/women (cronies?) in the top jobs.
he is not a leader but a 'fixer' . Not a supreme statesman, but a brown noser.
he is no worse than many ff men that came before him, but he isnt going to be any better.
i'd have been a hell of a lot more optimistic if the FG mutiny had ended up casting inda adrift.
the recent 'get Ireland working' slogan and its internet game
plus inda mentioning the word 'change' over a dozen times in one particular soundbite a couple of weeks ago made me cringe.
he is a copycat and is trying to emulate obama etc.
he isnt the no BS type of leader this country needs. All bluster and rehearsed lines - that will be some feckin use to us when he is trying to debate and sway the top euro leaders...
::)
hope noonan and brutan over ride him when in gov.
I also hope that labour get in along with fg so there might be some sanity and decent things done..
chances are it will end up a stalemate between them and it will effectively be an extension of the FF policies...
Ireland is fucked unless someone takes a completely different approach - ie one along the lines of what Sinn Fein/David McWilliams are saying. Enda may be a nice guy and a good guy but he doesn't have the balls for this. People are voting FG because they are afraid of taking the radical action needed. I conclude that Ireland is in for a world of pain created by FF and it will be beyond the efforts of FG to do anything about it.
Nope, a complete gobshite (not the only one though).
Can you imagine him stitting around the table debating with Obama, Cameron, Sarkozy ....... any other leader to be exact, talking about anything more than how FF was at fault for the "economic crisis" in Ireland? ::) I can't and I hate to say it, Ray Darcy may have make room on that boat out of here.
Oh and don't get me started on that shower of shite Sinn Fein, I actually would pull out if they get in power :o
What a load of over the top simplistic shite!
No one man runs the country ffs.
Enda Kenny is a poor debater and he doesn't have much of a notion when it comes to economics from what I can see.
But he's not (and won't be) the Minister for Finance or even the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, so that doesn't bother me.
He doesn't have an ego, he is not out to be seen as the all-powerful. Instead, he assigns the most capable and most suited people to each portfolio and lets them get on with their job.
That is what is needed now. Not a dictator which is what some of you seem to think a leader is.
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
I would have thought people would judge the man by his achievements, not his charisma or soundbites.
Once Enda delivers an international airport in castlebar, a motorway network around the county and appoints me to the board of the ESB, i'll be more that happy with him.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
What a load of over the top simplistic shite!
No one man runs the country ffs.
Enda Kenny is a poor debater and he doesn't have much of a notion when it comes to economics from what I can see.
But he's not (and won't be) the Minister for Finance or even the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, so that doesn't bother me.
He doesn't have an ego, he is not out to be seen as the all-powerful. Instead, he assigns the most capable and most suited people to each portfolio and lets them get on with their job.
That is what is needed now. Not a dictator which is what some of you seem to think a leader is.
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
I would have thought people would judge the man by his achievements, not his charisma or soundbites.
so good that a large rump of malcontents tried to overthrow him last year...
being great in mayo and his local electorate wont cut the mustard in economics or europe
QuoteGiven what has gone before him, Kenny at least deserves his shot.
That's my reasoning too; he can't be worse than the last shower. Irrespective of his debating skills.
I still feel dirty. :-[
Quote from: Billys Boots on February 24, 2011, 04:58:07 PM
QuoteGiven what has gone before him, Kenny at least deserves his shot.
That's my reasoning too; he can't be worse than the last shower. Irrespective of his debating skills.
I still feel dirty. :-[
All the same its hardly a reason to vote for someone.
I know he's crap, but he's not as crap as the last shower!!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2011, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
What a load of over the top simplistic shite!
No one man runs the country ffs.
Enda Kenny is a poor debater and he doesn't have much of a notion when it comes to economics from what I can see.
But he's not (and won't be) the Minister for Finance or even the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, so that doesn't bother me.
He doesn't have an ego, he is not out to be seen as the all-powerful. Instead, he assigns the most capable and most suited people to each portfolio and lets them get on with their job.
That is what is needed now. Not a dictator which is what some of you seem to think a leader is.
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
I would have thought people would judge the man by his achievements, not his charisma or soundbites.
so good that a large rump of malcontents tried to overthrow him last year...
being great in mayo and his local electorate wont cut the mustard in economics or europe
The thing is, he's isn't considered a 'local TD' in the sense that Michael Ring would be.
Enda Kenny isn't the type that goes to every funeral, or promises to tar the road up to the house etc
And as I've already said, he won't have an economic portfolio, so you won't have to rely on him in those matters.
You will have to rely on him to appoint the most capable people to those portfolios. And I think his record in that respect is very good.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 24, 2011, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on February 24, 2011, 04:58:07 PM
QuoteGiven what has gone before him, Kenny at least deserves his shot.
That's my reasoning too; he can't be worse than the last shower. Irrespective of his debating skills.
I still feel dirty. :-[
All the same its hardly a reason to vote for someone.
I know he's crap, but he's not as crap as the last shower!!
No, that's not what I meant. The next Government is going to be led either by Kenny, Gilmore or Martin. I despise Martin; to me he's a fawning, sleeveen gobshite, with no bottle. I don't rate Gilmore, and I don't think he's going to be in a position to be the country's leader come Sunday. So I'm left with Kenny; essentially the only choice I (or we) have, irrespective of whether I vote for him or not - so I'm left with the non-choice; do I support him or not. I, as a generally positive soul, am leaning toward supporting him, and f**k the begrudgers. I don't feel terribly comfortable about it, but that's life.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 05:08:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2011, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
What a load of over the top simplistic shite!
No one man runs the country ffs.
Enda Kenny is a poor debater and he doesn't have much of a notion when it comes to economics from what I can see.
But he's not (and won't be) the Minister for Finance or even the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, so that doesn't bother me.
He doesn't have an ego, he is not out to be seen as the all-powerful. Instead, he assigns the most capable and most suited people to each portfolio and lets them get on with their job.
That is what is needed now. Not a dictator which is what some of you seem to think a leader is.
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
I would have thought people would judge the man by his achievements, not his charisma or soundbites.
so good that a large rump of malcontents tried to overthrow him last year...
being great in mayo and his local electorate wont cut the mustard in economics or europe
The thing is, he's isn't considered a 'local TD' in the sense that Michael Ring would be.
Enda Kenny isn't the type that goes to every funeral, or promises to tar the road up to the house etc
And as I've already said, he won't have an economic portfolio, so you won't have to rely on him in those matters.
You will have to rely on him to appoint the most capable people to those portfolios. And I think his record in that respect is very good.
thats just it - he has not record to speak of
his own party (well a significant percentage) wanted him out
it doesnt bode well
he is a project co-ordinator (what I said at the outset an you are effectively saying the same) instead of a leader.
Maybe we dont need a leader, but imo to negotiate with europe etc we do.
unless he is going to send noonan instead of him.
a good move yes, but doesnt say much for inda.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2011, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 05:08:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2011, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
What a load of over the top simplistic shite!
No one man runs the country ffs.
Enda Kenny is a poor debater and he doesn't have much of a notion when it comes to economics from what I can see.
But he's not (and won't be) the Minister for Finance or even the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, so that doesn't bother me.
He doesn't have an ego, he is not out to be seen as the all-powerful. Instead, he assigns the most capable and most suited people to each portfolio and lets them get on with their job.
That is what is needed now. Not a dictator which is what some of you seem to think a leader is.
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
I would have thought people would judge the man by his achievements, not his charisma or soundbites.
so good that a large rump of malcontents tried to overthrow him last year...
being great in mayo and his local electorate wont cut the mustard in economics or europe
The thing is, he's isn't considered a 'local TD' in the sense that Michael Ring would be.
Enda Kenny isn't the type that goes to every funeral, or promises to tar the road up to the house etc
And as I've already said, he won't have an economic portfolio, so you won't have to rely on him in those matters.
You will have to rely on him to appoint the most capable people to those portfolios. And I think his record in that respect is very good.
thats just it - he has not record to speak of
his own party (well a significant percentage) wanted him out
it doesnt bode well
he is a project co-ordinator (what I said at the outset an you are effectively saying the same) instead of a leader.
Maybe we dont need a leader, but imo to negotiate with europe etc we do.
unless he is going to send noonan instead of him.
a good move yes, but doesnt say much for inda.
Fair enough, depends how you view leadership I suppose.
I don't care if he's not seen as the 'main man' that delivers the good news (or least bad news is probably more accurate!).
As long as he steers the ship in the right direction and has the right people in the right places to get us where we need to go, I think he'll have done a great job.
Of the 3 - Martin, Gilmore and Kenny - you'd have to go with Kenny every time. What a country we have.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
They tried to give him the heave ho last year did they not? Surely FG's inevitable success tomorrow will be thanks in full to the ineptitude of FF rather than a testament to the "leadership" of Enda Kenny?
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 24, 2011, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
They tried to give him the heave ho last year did they not? Surely FG's inevitable success tomorrow will be thanks in full to the ineptitude of FF rather than a testament to the "leadership" of Enda Kenny?
Sadly this is pretty much correct.
We always voted FF in the good/middling times (look after number one) and then vote FG (please God let them fix the mess created by FF) in a crisis. This has gone on for decades. The boom just lasted much longer this time.
We need to vote out FF permanently. Then we need a new alternative to emerge so we can replace FG with someone other than FF if FG don't perform.
This time though we are left with no option but to put FG into power.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 24, 2011, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
They tried to give him the heave ho last year did they not? Surely FG's inevitable success tomorrow will be thanks in full to the ineptitude of FF rather than a testament to the "leadership" of Enda Kenny?
The same applies to any success for SF or Labour. If FF had done a good job, there's not a mission we'd be looking at a wholesale clear-out.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 24, 2011, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
They tried to give him the heave ho last year did they not? Surely FG's inevitable success tomorrow will be thanks in full to the ineptitude of FF rather than a testament to the "leadership" of Enda
Kenny?
But SF won't benefit from voter apathy towards FF?
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2011, 06:25:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 24, 2011, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
They tried to give him the heave ho last year did they not? Surely FG's inevitable success tomorrow will be thanks in full to the ineptitude of FF rather than a testament to the "leadership" of Enda Kenny?
The same applies to any success for SF or Labour. If FF had done a good job, there's not a mission we'd be looking at a wholesale clear-out.
Hence why I didn't claim SF's or Labour's rise is due to the good work of their party leaders. My post was in response to a ridiculous claim that FG's success tomorrow will be thanks to Inda's leadership over the last few years.
Quote from: Minder on February 24, 2011, 06:37:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 24, 2011, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 24, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
Just have a look back at where FG were when he took over, in every way - organisationally, financially (as a party), locally (town and county councils) and nationally (in the Dáil).
And look at where he has led them (and is likely to lead them after tomorrow).
That is how he should be measured.
They tried to give him the heave ho last year did they not? Surely FG's inevitable success tomorrow will be thanks in full to the ineptitude of FF rather than a testament to the "leadership" of Enda
Kenny?
But SF won't benefit from voter apathy towards FF?
::) Of course they will!! I don't remember claiming otherwise. I was posting in response to a discussion is about FG and Enda Kenny.
As stated in my reply to Maguire, my post was in response to a ridiculous claim that FG's success tomorrow will be thanks to Inda's leadership over the last few years. I didn't realise that by saying FG are benefiting from FF ineptitude, that I was also somehow saying that SF would not benefit from it as well!!
Where's you know who? Not like him not to throw him in front of the cannon in defence of Enda Kenny and the Fine Gael party.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on February 24, 2011, 08:03:41 PM
Where's you know who? Not like him not to throw him in front of the cannon in defence of Enda Kenny and the Fine Gael party.
It has probably all become too much for tonight.
I have a vision of him in a room with a bottle of vodka, an iphone and that stupid nursery rhyme app.
What's a sleeveen? Have seen it on the board a few times but not sure of the meaning
Quote from: andoireabu on February 24, 2011, 08:15:47 PM
What's a sleeveen? Have seen it on the board a few times but not sure of the meaning
http://www.slang.ie/index.php?county=Dublin&entry=sleeveen (http://www.slang.ie/index.php?county=Dublin&entry=sleeveen)
Like a 'cute hoor' only less likable.
Some examples of sleeveens (http://gubu-world.blogspot.com/2010/05/liam-egan-is-sleeveen.html)
Quote from: Hardy on February 24, 2011, 08:26:12 PM
Some examples of sleeveens (http://gubu-world.blogspot.com/2010/05/liam-egan-is-sleeveen.html)
The collective term for Sleeveen is
Árd Fheis.
Here is a load of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3elLmrCmOqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3elLmrCmOqo)
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2011, 08:22:02 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on February 24, 2011, 08:15:47 PM
What's a sleeveen? Have seen it on the board a few times but not sure of the meaning
http://www.slang.ie/index.php?county=Dublin&entry=sleeveen (http://www.slang.ie/index.php?county=Dublin&entry=sleeveen)
Like a 'cute hoor' only less likable.
Ah I see. That's some website. Could be using a few of them this weekend
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2011, 08:06:01 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on February 24, 2011, 08:03:41 PM
Where's you know who? Not like him not to throw him in front of the cannon in defence of Enda Kenny and the Fine Gael party.
It has probably all become too much for tonight.
I have a vision of him in a room with a bottle of vodka, an iphone and that stupid nursery rhyme app.
Ha ha were you lads talking about me, well don't drink vodka, I am a stout and real ale man. I have a cheap ass Nokia & couldn't use an i-phone to save my life. Music most played today where the Rubberbandits new song, Saw Doctors, Rod Stewart & Lilly Allen.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 24, 2011, 05:54:42 PM
People have very short memories, in a few years we`ll all forget just how bad things were in 2011 and we`ll want FF back in power. Inda is not the man to save Ireland, but he is not as much to blame for the current mess as anyone in FF, so he will be Taoiseach by default. He is probaby the least worst option.
If things don't improve in the next few years which is quite possible it could go 1 of 2 ways, either FF will be forgiven and back in power or SF/left will increase their vote as they will be seen as the real opposition.
On Enda Kenny
1) If he had any real ability surely either the FG government of the 80s or 90s would have had him in a position of power?
2) He has done a decent job of reviving FGs fortunes but avoiding Vincent Browne and Today FM smacks of cowardice.
3) An early test of whether anything will change will be the Seanad appointees. I know FG want to abolish the Seanad but this will not be for a few years at the earliest. If it is 11 cronies, it is business as usual.
That cockroach Eoghan Harris was on Newstalk yesterday praising Enda Kenny. Obviously looking to be reappointed. Make me want to be sick listening to him.
Quote from: Orangemac on February 24, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
3) An early test of whether anything will change will be the Seanad appointees. I know FG want to abolish the Seanad but this will not be for a few years at the earliest. If it is 11 cronies, it is business as usual.
Good point. It will be a very interesting indicator.
I couldn't do it! I voted Labour. Aaaargh. Depression, followed by feed of pints. Aaaargh. :-[
Quote from: Hardy on February 25, 2011, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: Orangemac on February 24, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
3) An early test of whether anything will change will be the Seanad appointees. I know FG want to abolish the Seanad but this will not be for a few years at the earliest. If it is 11 cronies, it is business as usual.
Good point. It will be a very interesting indicator.
I could never be described as pro-FG but I would have thought that until such time as any new government does reform or abolish the Seanad it needs its full quota of appointments in there so as to allow the easy passage of legislation through the upper house. Otherwise, if the government was not in control of the Seanad, legislation could be delayed for months.
It was my view that the Seanad should be directly elected mid-term at local election time. That way the sitting government would be encouraged to ensure it adheres to the promises upon which it was elected (leaving aside whether a coalition actually has a mandate). I think it would allow opposition to pass more legislation also, as if the opposition controlled the Seanad, a sitting government (ie the Dáil) would be more inclined to trade support for legislation with the Seanad which would encourage a more bi-partisan parliamentary system. We certainly would not have any railroading of legislation through the houses. This is one of the core reasons for having an upper house. Of course there are flaws to this idea but I think it should be looked at. Certainly, to my mind abolishing the Seanad simply as a cost saving measure doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It'd be a mere drop in the ocean and doesnt have the same symbolism as cutting the salaries of top civil servants and/or TDs.
Some interesting points, for those who dont think we need a leader and a finacial head on the ceo then Id ask them to imagine if it was a job interview for a company you own which under the last ceo got into trouble, ie is finacially on its knees but you still believe it has the products, the people and a bright future if it was run right, so you need to appoint a new ceo, to both restructure the thing financially and to renegotiate terms with suppliers etc. Now if that person had neither charisma, negotiating skills, real forward planning, confidence, nor financial wherewithall, I know I wouldnt be giving him the job.
The idea of anyone voting FF FG ahead of any of the other parties shows that not only have the Irish people lost their money and their standing in Europe but they have also lost their confidence and their desire to effect change is diminished. There appears to be a desire for the man on the street to remain an underling to the established political classes, rather than entertain a new direction and take risk
Quote from: rrhf on February 25, 2011, 11:10:25 AM
Some interesting points, for those who dont think we need a leader and a finacial head on the ceo then Id ask them to imagine if it was a job interview for a company you own which under the last ceo got into trouble, ie is finacially on its knees but you still believe it has the products, the people and a bright future if it was run right, so you need to appoint a new ceo, to both restructure the thing financially and to renegotiate terms with suppliers etc. Now if that person had neither charisma, negotiating skills, real forward planning, confidence, nor financial wherewithall, I know I wouldnt be giving him the job.
The idea of anyone voting FF FG ahead of any of the other parties shows that not only have the Irish people lost their money and their standing in Europe but they have also lost their confidence and their desire to effect change is diminished. There appears to be a desire for the man on the street to remain an underling to the established political classes, rather than entertain a new direction and take risk
If you're talking about SF here, it's far more than a risk!!
Quote from: Orangemac on February 24, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
2) He has done a decent job of reviving FGs fortunes but avoiding Vincent Browne and Today FM smacks of cowardice.
Far too much being made of this IMHO. Enda knows full well how difficult VB can make life for him, so he's cute enough to avoid it. Just like Brian Cowen did for his entire tenure as Taoiseach, despite several requests from the Vincent Browne programme to appear on it. I don't remember anyone calling Cowen a coward just because he wouldn't get in the ring with Vincent.
And anyway, does doing well on Vincent Browne or Matt Cooper make you a leader or win you elections? Micheál Martin went on to Vincent last week and, as usual, was slippery and aggressive. VB couldn't lay a glove on him. He then did the same on the Last Word (telling Cooper to 'get over himself' at one stage).
The Independent and other media were killed telling us how great Micheál did. The effect on FF's showing in the opinion polls? Zero.
Apologies if this has been posted already ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mJ_7SqKxGI