Well, any?
Kilkenny boss Brian Cody will have to wait another day to find out whether Henry Shefflin and Brian Hogan will be available for this year's All-Ireland final.
Both Shefflin and Hogan picked up knocks in the Cats' victory over Cork on Sunday and both will have scans with a local consultant on Tuesday.
Shefflin is struggling with a knee injury, while Hogan appeared to hurt his shoulder.
And manager Cody will be hoping that Shefflin's injury is not a repeat of the cruciate ligament damage he suffered in the 2007 All-Ireland final.
Both Shefflin and Hogan underwent a session of cryotherapy chamber treatment on Monday morning.
I'm hoping Henry might just have jarred his knee. It wasn't a particulary violent movement which you associate with ligament tears, so hopefully it might just be a strain and he'll be fine.
Win, lose or draw, King Henry deserves to be there when the drive for five reaches D-Day.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 09, 2010, 12:34:50 PM
I'm hoping Henry might just have jarred his knee. It wasn't a particulary violent movement which you associate with ligament tears, so hopefully it might just be a strain and he'll be fine.
Win, lose or draw, King Henry deserves to be there when the drive for five reaches D-Day.
Agreed.
Looking at the replay last night the knee didn't "buckle" as was mentioned in yesterday's commentary.
The physio made him do a wee run after he got up and wasn't able to but walked off freely. Hope he's ok - as you say he deserves to be there on AI final day and has more than earned the right.
Can we read anything into the fact that both were sent to the cryotherapy chamber straightaway ?
Quote from: orangeman on August 09, 2010, 12:41:12 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 09, 2010, 12:34:50 PM
I'm hoping Henry might just have jarred his knee. It wasn't a particulary violent movement which you associate with ligament tears, so hopefully it might just be a strain and he'll be fine.
Win, lose or draw, King Henry deserves to be there when the drive for five reaches D-Day.
Agreed.
Looking at the replay last night the knee didn't "buckle" as was mentioned in yesterday's commentary.
The physio made him do a wee run after he got up and wasn't able to but walked off freely. Hope he's ok - as you say he deserves to be there on AI final day and has more than earned the right.
Can we read anything into the fact that both were sent to the cryotherapy chamber straightaway ?
Maybe they are being frozen to bring them out in 2050?
Hogan got his shoulder injury on his run up the Cuack stand sideline when hit well with a fair shoulder. I think he's had shoulder bother before in the league against Tipp a few years back. If it's a proper dislocation he'll not be able to do any training other than a bit of bike work and that'll leave him short in a months time if its even close to ready.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 09, 2010, 01:28:26 PM
Hogan got his shoulder injury on his run up the Cuack stand sideline when hit well with a fair shoulder. I think he's had shoulder bother before in the league against Tipp a few years back. If it's a proper dislocation he'll not be able to do any training other than a bit of bike work and that'll leave him short in a months time if its even close to ready.
To be fair Gardiner hit hit some thud. Didn't he do the collar bone in this year's league in April against Tipp ?.
That's what it looked like to me when he went off, collar bone. Maybe a 'stinger' because he shouldn't have been able to 'roll' his shoulder if it was dislocated shoulder or broken collar bone.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 09, 2010, 02:27:23 PM
That's what it looked like to me when he went off, collar bone. Maybe a 'stinger' because he shouldn't have been able to 'roll' his shoulder if it was dislocated shoulder or broken collar bone.
Five minutes afterwards he caught a scud missile from Donal Og but looked in a lot of discomfort afterwards. He mightn't be too bad.
having dislocated the shoulder many times i can understand what it feels like. the recovery depends on how bad he 'popped' it. he seemed fine for a bit then he more than likely felt it go a bit later when catching the ball.
4 weeks is plenty time for him to be physically right but its mentally right is the main concern, your always thinking its going to pop in the next tackle so he may miss out as the training leading up to the final is relentless. I'm sure Cody wont risk him
As for Henry, i hope he will be grand for the final he was brilliant up to getting injured and his run and pass to Eddie was top drawer.
should both miss out it could lead the door opened for the other finalist but i'd still expect Kilkenny to win by 6
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2010, 02:53:12 PM
having dislocated the shoulder many times i can understand what it feels like. the recovery depends on how bad he 'popped' it. he seemed fine for a bit then he more than likely felt it go a bit later when catching the ball.
4 weeks is plenty time for him to be physically right but its mentally right is the main concern, your always thinking its going to pop in the next tackle so he may miss out as the training leading up to the final is relentless. I'm sure Cody wont risk him
As for Henry, i hope he will be grand for the final he was brilliant up to getting injured and his run and pass to Eddie was top drawer.
should both miss out it could lead the door opened for the other finalist but i'd still expect Kilkenny to win by 6
I'd say they'll win by ten to four. :D
Any news on the injuries ?.
Not supposed to be too bad, they both are racing against the clock, but fingers crossed they make it. They've both gone for scans today and it's a matter of waiting and seeing.
They were rushed off into the cryotherapy chambers in Wexford, apparently at half time, it's a matter of waiting to see how they react and a boat load of deep freeze.
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2010, 12:00:46 PM
Not supposed to be too bad, they both are racing against the clock, but fingers crossed they make it. They've both gone for scans today and it's a matter of waiting and seeing.
They were rushed off into the cryotherapy chambers in Wexford, apparently at half time, it's a matter of waiting to see how they react and a boat load of deep freeze.
No messing around there.
Henry's cruciate is gone.
Just announced so he's out for the final plus some
f**k it.
Gutted no doubt. Poor lad. Not the first time he's done it either..to the other knee I'm sure though. 31 and he's done in his cruciate. Hopefully it's not the last we've seen of him. Pitty he wont be there for the final.
A real pity
Irish Times
Henry Shefflin has been ruled out of the All-Ireland hurling final after it was confirmed today that the 31-year-old severed a cruciate ligament during Kilenny's semi-final victory over Cork on Sunday.
Shefflin received the news from orthoepaedic surgeon Dr Tadhg O'Sullivan today that his season was over.
In 2007 Shefflin limped out of the All-Ireland final when he also ruptured a ligament. On that occasion the damage was to the right knee, but this time it is the left one.
"I am so disappointed I don't know how I feel," Shefflin said when he revealed the news. "I am devastated. I was hoping against hope that it was something else but the surgeon has confirmed my worst fears."
Shefflin was struck down by injury in the 25th minute after he had made a terrific opening to the game, contesting a high ball and then he came crashing down on his left leg.
"I heard some pop. I had an idea I was in a bit of trouble but I was hoping it wasn't what I feared it might be," he said.
f**k it is right
Very bad luck for him but of course an opportunity for someone else. Who comes in? Comerford or someone like Richie Hogan?
Kilkenny should throw in Christy Heffernan for old times' sake.
They could probably win with a footballer or a girl in that position anyway but
Cody is too conservative for that sort of a move.
Horrible news.
Gutted for him - terrible news
Kilkenny's all-time top scorer Henry Shefflin has been ruled out of action for next month's All-Ireland Senior Hurling final, after Kilkenny officials confirmed the extent of the Ballyhale Shamrocks player's injury this evening.
Shefflin picked up a knee injury after 25 minutes in the Cats' semi-final victory over Cork on Sunday and underwent a scan with a local consultant today.
In a statement issued to local radio station KCLR96fm the Kilkenny County Board confirmed the extent of Shefflin's injury.
"Henry Shefflin's injury has been confimed as a cruciate ligament to his left knee. His previous cruciate injury was to his right knee," it read.
Shefflin received the news from the Orthopedic surgeon Dr Tadhg O'Sullivan at 11am today that his season was over.
Friends say that he is devastated.
However, there is better news for Brian Hogan who picked up a shoulder knock against the Rebels.
"Brian Hogan's shoulder injury is not as serious first thought. With treatment he should be fit for the All-Ireland final.
The statement concludes: "The Kilkenny County Board and all Kilkenny supporters wish both Henry and Brian the best as they begin their recoveries."
Real pity for him. To miss what will probably be 5 in a row is bound to hurt.
Be a lot of competition for the no. 11 jersey now.
Thats just Sh1te, Richie Power to take over the free taking and Comerford in, straight swap. if Hogan is fine then it won't make a pile of difference.
Power hit all the frees after Henry went off and didn't miss. might give other teams some hope though and change the mindset leading into the final.
Bad blow for Ballyhale in the championship also.
Devastating for him. If anyone deserved to play for the five in a row, it was him.
He's NEVER missed a game in the championship under Cody.
Horrible luck but it shows how easy these things can happen and the obvious greater risk of doing another cruciate once you've done one of them before.
Terrible news. There's no words to describe how sh!tty this is. Best hurler I've seen. He'll be back.
The only silver lining is that it makes Kilkenny a little bit vulnerable in the final.
Quote from: Asal Mor on August 10, 2010, 11:04:16 PM
Terrible news. There's no words to describe how sh!tty this is. Best hurler I've seen. He'll be back.
The only silver lining is that it makes Kilkenny a little bit vulnerable in the final.
Not by much.
Obviously Kilkenny will still be awesome but when I think back over the last few years Henry has so often been the difference. He was the difference on Sunday early on when the game was still a match and ditto against Galway. Also I wouldn't underestimate the importance of his presence on the pitch. They've never before gone into battle without their great leader.
Quote from: Asal Mor on August 10, 2010, 11:04:16 PM
Terrible news. There's no words to describe how sh!tty this is. Best hurler I've seen. He'll be back.
The only silver lining is that it makes Kilkenny a little bit vulnerable in the final.
My only worry is, well will he be back. He did his other cruciate all ready, and it's fuckin awful luck that he does it again, especially on the eve of what could be such a momentus occasion in hurling. But he's almost 32, just wondering will we see him back? I hope we will cause he's a lot more to give to the game.
I suppose there is a chance we won't see him again at the highest level but he always seems to keep himself in such impeccable shape that I'd be betting he makes it back. He has never looked so much as an ounce overweight in all his career. The odds on him being as great as he was aren't the best tho. Still he's no ordinary man.
Quote from: Asal Mor on August 11, 2010, 12:14:39 AM
I suppose there is a chance we won't see him again at the highest level but he always seems to keep himself in such impeccable shape that I'd be betting he makes it back. He has never looked so much as an ounce overweight in all his career. The odds on him being as great as he was aren't the best tho. Still he's no ordinary man.
It's not that I can't see him physically not being able to get back into it. Just there's a point where enoughs enough, while they physically may be able to continue on, they just get to the point where they loose the stomach for it. Look at Deane, Canning..etc. All could have carried on, but didn't.
He's 32 soon enough, he was never going to have long left, I just hope this doesn't push forward the inevidable. But he is King Henry after all. Not a mere mortal like the rest of us. ;) Hopefully though we'll see him back, doesn't look to have lost anything, he's a game winner, and when you're a game winner for Kilkenny that's saying something. Really and truely one of the best the game has seen and I wish him well, as I'm sure everybody does. It'll be a long road back again, but hopefully it's not the end of him and he's back for next season in the black and amber giving us all headaches trying to figure out just how to deal with him and his lot.
But, on a side note, as good as Kilkenny are, even they will feel his loss in a big way. You can replace most of their players 3 times over and still probably not see much of a difference, but Shefflin is a league of his own. Either way it'll be one hell of a scrap for the fight for his position.
I think it highlights the damage that high level intercounty activity can do to players. This is the 4th cruciate ligament injury in this KK team according to The Irish times. Throw in what happened to Bernard flynn's hips as reported in the tribune or Joe Canning's groin and the pattern is alarming . There are plenty more examples.
Quote from: seafoid on August 11, 2010, 05:14:18 PM
I think it highlights the damage that high level intercounty activity can do to players. This is the 4th cruciate ligament injury in this KK team according to The Irish times. Throw in what happened to Bernard flynn's hips as reported in the tribune or Joe Canning's groin and the pattern is alarming . There are plenty more examples.
It is happening a lot to IC players but club players are getting their fair share as well of torn cruciates etc.
I'd say the GAA insurance has noticed a rise in claims and a rise in private operations as past few years.
But I do accept your point that sustained IC activity is taking its toll on the players.
Quote from: orangeman on August 11, 2010, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 11, 2010, 05:14:18 PM
I think it highlights the damage that high level intercounty activity can do to players. This is the 4th cruciate ligament injury in this KK team according to The Irish times. Throw in what happened to Bernard flynn's hips as reported in the tribune or Joe Canning's groin and the pattern is alarming . There are plenty more examples.
It is happening a lot to IC players but club players are getting their fair share as well of torn cruciates etc.
I'd say the GAA insurance has noticed a rise in claims and a rise in private operations as past few years.
But I do accept your point that sustained IC activity is taking its toll on the players.
I think it really is taking it's toll. Over the past few years the game has become professional in all but name, the training has become incredibly professional and more and more competitive. A bit of Donal Og's book, it says how Kevin Hartnett and DOC on Christmas Eve and on Christmas day with Sean Og and teu, in the gym and ball alley, wondering if any of their rivals are pushing themselves this way. They are really competitive and we're seeing the result of it.
I still think someone needs to sit Joe Canning down and get him to see sense, he's a young lad, with a big future hopefully.
That said players have been getting injured since gamse begin, just the GAA is a lot more high intensity, high pressure, and they act as professionals when it comes to training.
That said, guys at club level work as hard, and we're seeing it at club level as well, alot of serious injuries, but the constant activity of an IC player is taking it's toll.
Quote from: seafoid on August 11, 2010, 07:51:26 PM
Quote from: Reillers on August 11, 2010, 07:17:50 PM
I still think someone needs to sit Joe Canning down and get him to see sense, he's a young lad, with a big future hopefully.
That said players have been getting injured since gamse begin, just the GAA is a lot more high intensity, high pressure, and they act as professionals when it comes to training.
The training they do nowadays is off the scale compared to what say the Cork 3 in a row lads were doing in the 70s.
Agree totally about Joe C. He should take a year off. Galway won't be ready anyway until 2012 :)
[/quote]
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0813/1224276715619.html
No mere mortal after all.
Quote from: Reillers on August 13, 2010, 10:55:18 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0813/1224276715619.html
No mere mortal after all.
What's this about ?
Mind games ? Surely it would / could only be a token appearance ?
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2010, 11:02:23 AM
Quote from: Reillers on August 13, 2010, 10:55:18 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0813/1224276715619.html
No mere mortal after all.
What's this about ?
Mind games ? Surely it would / could only be a token appearance ?
Surely it's only mind games I'd say. Is it worth it, I mean no matter what they say or do, it's supposed to take about 6/8 months, not 3 weeks. He'd be able to do very little and they risk further injury if they play him I'd say.
I'd say it's very much the case of him being able to walk out with the team, sit on the bench, mentally that's a boost for the team, and Tipp/Waterford will always have it in the back of their head that he might be able to come on at some point.
I'd say it's purely mind games, but you know, it is King Henry after all.
I don't think it is mind games, but I would be very surprised if he were to play.
Typically this injury requires an ACL reconstruction, which typically involves taking a part of your patella tendon or hamstring as a substitute for your cruciate and inserting this into your knee using biodegradable bolts/screws to keep it in place. Following surgery it takes on average between 6-8 months for a "sports" person to return to competitive action. This 6-8 months requires an incredible amount of physio and on-your-own gym work.
There are cases however of people playing without a cruciate, which can be achieved if your quad muscles are sufficiently strong enough. The only name that I can think of who plays without a cruciate is Kevin Hayes from Portumna/Galway but I'm not certain on this. I know there are others in different sports but again I can't provide any names. (Rugby players generally have extremely strong leg muscles so chances are there are a few here in this category).
I do remember reading an article a few years back on Roberto Baggio playing in USA '94 only 3 months after his ACL operation which was an incredible achievement (plus he was in his mid 30s at the time I think)
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2010, 09:52:41 PM
He's NEVER missed a game in the championship under Cody.
Horrible luck but it shows how easy these things can happen and the obvious greater risk of doing another cruciate once you've done one of them before.
What are you talking about, he did the cruciate in the other knee this time ???
Anyways, gutted for the man, some kick in the teeth...
Quote from: Roashter on August 13, 2010, 11:36:59 AM
I don't think it is mind games, but I would be very surprised if he were to play.
Typically this injury requires an ACL reconstruction, which typically involves taking a part of your patella tendon or hamstring as a substitute for your cruciate and inserting this into your knee using biodegradable bolts/screws to keep it in place. Following surgery it takes on average between 6-8 months for a "sports" person to return to competitive action. This 6-8 months requires an incredible amount of physio and on-your-own gym work.
There are cases however of people playing without a cruciate, which can be achieved if your quad muscles are sufficiently strong enough. The only name that I can think of who plays without a cruciate is Kevin Hayes from Portumna/Galway but I'm not certain on this. I know there are others in different sports but again I can't provide any names. (Rugby players generally have extremely strong leg muscles so chances are there are a few here in this category).
I do remember reading an article a few years back on Roberto Baggio playing in USA '94 only 3 months after his ACL operation which was an incredible achievement (plus he was in his mid 30s at the time I think)
No I think they'll give it a go, but the lads walking around with the need of two crutches, it's 3 weeks, it dosen't matter hos little damage is done in comparison to what could have been damaged, it's supposed to take months, not 3 weeks. It doesn't matter hwo strong his mucles are, or how fit he is, it's 3 weeks. Not even a month for a lad who's 31 years old. I think they're looking at doing damage if they play him, which is why I think it's a pure mental thing.
The Irish times report sounds like the legend of El Cid.
Surely it can't be a full tear then of the ACL ?.
Was he stretchered off on Sunday or did he not walk off?
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on August 13, 2010, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2010, 09:52:41 PM
He's NEVER missed a game in the championship under Cody.
Horrible luck but it shows how easy these things can happen and the obvious greater risk of doing another cruciate once you've done one of them before.
What are you talking about, he did the cruciate in the other knee this time ???
Anyways, gutted for the man, some kick in the teeth...
"Croí na hÉireann ", in defence of "orangeman"'s statement, there is indeed a greater risk of suffering an ACL tear to EITHER knee if one has already had an ACL reconstruction. Rupturing the cruciate on the same knee is obviously more likely as the graft may not be as strong particulary during the first 1 to 2 years post return to sport.
I had an ACL reconstruction a few years back and I've been to a few different physio's in the meantime and they all have stressed the importance of working on the good knee (ie the knee which didn't have the reconstruction).
There are 2 reasons for this.
1. When players are rehabilitating in the gym, they are much more inclined to concentrate more on the injured knee and thus after the 6-8 months most players return to sport with the originally injured knee being a lot stronger than the good knee.
2. Sub-consciously players will tend to "mind" the injured knee by turning/twisting etc on the good knee. This is only natural considering you have spent the guts of a year rehabilitating the injured knee you will be reluctant to risk anything with it.
Both these 2 scenarios will result on the good knee bearing a lot more of pressure and thus more of the risk to injury. It is over 4 years since I had my op and I still am reluctant to use the leg with ACL into tough/hard challenge.
Quote from: nrico2006 on August 13, 2010, 02:49:00 PM
Was he stretchered off on Sunday or did he not walk off?
he walked off and largely unasisted by anyone.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 13, 2010, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on August 13, 2010, 02:49:00 PM
Was he stretchered off on Sunday or did he not walk off?
he walked off and largely unasisted by anyone.
Ya but he's to use 2 crutches now. I just can't see it, it'd be pretty irresponsible of any medical team or Cody or anyone to let him attempt to play on it if it risks further damage, which I can't see how it wouldn't to be honest. I mean wouldn't it just risk putting him out for longer?
could risk putting him out permanently can't see cody allowing him play
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on August 13, 2010, 05:20:07 PM
could risk putting him out permanently can't see cody allowing him play
Young Canning mightn't know any better, but Shefflin should. There's no way he should be stupid enough to try and play, and if that fails, the KK medical staff, or Cody should stop him.
My bet is that Henry will still play some part in the Final.
Cat's Not Giving Up On Henry Shefflin
http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/08/13/cat%E2%80%99s-not-giving-up-on-henry-shefflin/
The talk coming out of KK this evening is that Tommy Walsh has suffered a dislocated shoulder in a club match today.
Is the 5 in a row bid starting to falter ?.
Quote from: orangeman on August 15, 2010, 07:04:41 PM
The talk coming out of KK this evening is that Tommy Walsh has suffered a dislocated shoulder in a club match today.
Is the 5 in a row bid starting to falter ?.
i heard it was a suspected broken collarbone
Lads I think this puts the fat in the fire. If Shefflin and Walsh are out, I think Tipp could well beat the Cats.
Tipp were a lot better today, and may be gathering momentum at the right time. It should be a fascinating final, and we need it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 15, 2010, 09:32:28 PM
Lads I think this puts the fat in the fire. If Shefflin and Walsh are out, I think Tipp could well beat the Cats.Tipp were a lot better today, and may be gathering momentum at the right time. It should be a fascinating final, and we need it.
Sunday game panel are split 2-1 in favour of KK.
As you say I think it can be a fascinating final.
The pick of Tipp, Cork and Waterford won't beat the Cat's in the final for jaysus sake.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 16, 2010, 10:31:37 AM
The pick of Tipp, Cork and Waterford won't beat the Cat's in the final for jaysus sake.
I agree, as much as i hate to admit it
Wait 'till these two boys, Walsh and Shefflin are released out of the ice box they are locked up in down in Wexford. Bloody sure they will be playing but Cody will be encouraging two more to give it their all in training to take their place and on and on it goes. I still think Walsh and Shefflin will be playing.
Walsh will be fit for the final according to the news today.
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on August 16, 2010, 11:34:42 AM
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 16, 2010, 10:31:37 AM
The pick of Tipp, Cork and Waterford won't beat the Cat's in the final for jaysus sake.
I agree, as much as i hate to admit it
i wouldn't think that side would differ too much from the tipp team, who'll give the cats plenty of trouble this year again. If they'd found a few scores from out the park last year it was their's for the taking (and that's forgetting about the helping hand the ref gave the cats). This year with mcgrath and a rejuvenated o'brien finally starting to deliver it could be a different story. It probably wouldn't do any harm to tipp to see shefflin start as there's little chance he'll be at full pace and look at the lift it would give them when he's withdrawn (though whether Cody would start him in that state is another story). I expect Walsh to be fit though, and at this stage he's a much more important player for ths cats than henry anyway. Hopefully it'll be a classic, and it might well be.
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 17, 2010, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on August 16, 2010, 11:34:42 AM
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 16, 2010, 10:31:37 AM
The pick of Tipp, Cork and Waterford won't beat the Cat's in the final for jaysus sake.
I agree, as much as i hate to admit it
i wouldn't think that side would differ too much from the tipp team, who'll give the cats plenty of trouble this year again. If they'd found a few scores from out the park last year it was their's for the taking (and that's forgetting about the helping hand the ref gave the cats). This year with mcgrath and a rejuvenated o'brien finally starting to deliver it could be a different story. It probably wouldn't do any harm to tipp to see shefflin start as there's little chance he'll be at full pace and look at the lift it would give them when he's withdrawn (though whether Cody would start him in that state is another story). I expect Walsh to be fit though, and at this stage he's a much more important player for ths cats than henry anyway. Hopefully it'll be a classic, and it might well be.
I think shipping 1-18 to Waterford with them playing with mullane on his own for most the game up front is worrying for tipp, they will have to improve in defense to cope with kk. Also will there be the space in around the full forward line tipp got against waterford at times on sunday against the cats, i dont think tipp will win this one.
big selection worries for Cody this year, usually the team has picked itself but one or two doubts over fitness and Cody will make tough decisions, for me he has to put out the strongest 15, cant have players that aren't 100% fit on final day.
All the Tipp boys will be going at the Kilkenny boys at 100 mph and any player carrying a knock will know all about it in the first ten minutes. the team that start with momentum has the edge. Kilkenny have always had great starts and good finishes.
what do you do if you were Cody? Start Henry and Walsh or bring them on?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2010, 12:45:39 PM
big selection worries for Cody this year, usually the team has picked itself but one or two doubts over fitness and Cody will make tough decisions, for me he has to put out the strongest 15, cant have players that aren't 100% fit on final day.
All the Tipp boys will be going at the Kilkenny boys at 100 mph and any player carrying a knock will know all about it in the first ten minutes. the team that start with momentum has the edge. Kilkenny have always had great starts and good finishes.
what do you do if you were Cody? Start Henry and Walsh or bring them on?
Am pretty sure that Henry will play no part in the game. The injury to Walsh on the other hand doesn't seem to be as serious as first reported.
More than likely it'll be the same team that started against Cork. If Brian Hogan is still injured then James Ryall will fill in there.
The only selection to be decided upon is who to pick instead of Shefflin -Comerford/Rice/Mulhall ?
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on August 17, 2010, 12:08:29 PM
I think shipping 1-18 to Waterford with them playing with mullane on his own for most the game up front is worrying for tipp, they will have to improve in defense to cope with kk. Also will there be the space in around the full forward line tipp got against waterford at times on sunday against the cats, i dont think tipp will win this one.
True, but sure the cats shipped nearly the same against a very, very poor cork side. I would be more worried by the defensive lapses against Galway, but then Galway can give any side a run on their day and I'd put them as 3rd best in the country at present.
I'd agree with roashter that Henry is unlikely to play any part and Walsh should come through easily (though as milltown says, he could be vulnerable to an early hit or two). Tipp are definitely underdogs and need to be at the top of their game, but, kk don't seem quite as strong to me and I think they're there for the taking. Tipp's arrogance, God love them, will stand them in good stead for this one too as they're never afraid of KK.
Kilkenny Selector Sick Of Injury Rumours
Fogarty put paid to those rumours today saying "Henry hasn't a hope of playing".
http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/08/17/kilkenny-selector-sick-of-injury-rumours/
Surely they know by now if Henry's cruciate is gone or not ?
Tommy Walsh in, Henry Shefflin definitely out.
That was the news from Kilkenny last night as they resumed training for the eagerly awaited All-Ireland final with Tipperary in three weeks' time.
An X-ray revealed that Hurler of the Year Walsh had sustained no major damage in a collision with county colleague Jackie Tyrrell in a club match over the weekend.
But Kilkenny have moved to quash speculation that Shefflin could yet play some part against Tipperary next month.
Selector Martin Fogarty said yesterday that Shefflin "hadn't a hope" of figuring in the decider.
Fogarty describes Walsh's injury as "similar to Brian Hogan's".
That's damage to the AC joint in the shoulder and Walsh has been intensively applying ice to the area affected since it happened on Saturday when he was playing for Tullaroan in a county league match against James Stephens.
Fogarty admitted these were "tough times" for the champions as the injuries mounted up but their focus remained on getting the fittest team possible on the pitch for the Tipperary game.
Effectively, only those who train next week are likely to be considered for starting places.
Shefflin's visit to renowned sports injury specialist Gerard Hartmann last week for consultation had triggered hope that he may be involved in the All-Ireland final -- he isn't considering surgery until after the Tipperary clash.
"Maybe it will be a case, just like JJ Delaney four years ago, that Henry won't need an operation," said Fogarty. "When JJ went for surgery it was established that the ligament wasn't completely gone and that the most prudent thing was not to do anything with it.
"But the stronger a knee is, the better it is to cope without an operation and that's why Henry is currently taking this route. The same with John Tennyson.
"Unless there's a miracle -- and we're not expecting one -- Henry won't be playing."
"Brian Hogan is not out of the woods yet either but his prospects are improving," continued Fogarty.
Between Shefflin, Walsh, Hogan, Tennyson and Michael Rice, Kilkenny's injury problems have been mounting in recent weeks and Fogarty accepted that it "made things more difficult".
"But it's a great challenge and I'm sure everybody is looking forward to it," he stressed.
- Colm Keys
Henry Shefflin is on course to be fit for the All-Ireland Senior Hurling final after coming through a full training session with Kilkenny in Nowlan Park on Wednesday night.Tommy Walsh, Richie Power and John Tennyson also took part in the session despite injury worries in a major boost to the Cats.
Walsh looks like overcoming a shoulder injury picked up in a club match with Tulloran.
A crowd of almost 8,000 attended the training exercise. It wasn't all good news for Brian Cody, however, with Brian Hogan suffering a suspected broken finger and he is now a major doubt for the match with Tipperary.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 15, 2010, 10:21:09 AM
My bet is that Henry will still play some part in the Final.
8,000 people at last nights training session. The King is back.
Does anyone know, apart from this Saturdays training session, what times the remaining training sessions are on?
Quote from: orangeman on August 26, 2010, 08:32:14 AM
Henry Shefflin is on course to be fit for the All-Ireland Senior Hurling final after coming through a full training session with Kilkenny in Nowlan Park on Wednesday night.Tommy Walsh, Richie Power and John Tennyson also took part in the session despite injury worries in a major boost to the Cats.
Walsh looks like overcoming a shoulder injury picked up in a club match with Tulloran.
A crowd of almost 8,000 attended the training exercise. It wasn't all good news for Brian Cody, however, with Brian Hogan suffering a suspected broken finger and he is now a major doubt for the match with Tipperary.
What???!?? that wasn't an ACL tear then. No way.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 26, 2010, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 26, 2010, 08:32:14 AM
Henry Shefflin is on course to be fit for the All-Ireland Senior Hurling final after coming through a full training session with Kilkenny in Nowlan Park on Wednesday night.Tommy Walsh, Richie Power and John Tennyson also took part in the session despite injury worries in a major boost to the Cats.
Walsh looks like overcoming a shoulder injury picked up in a club match with Tulloran.
A crowd of almost 8,000 attended the training exercise. It wasn't all good news for Brian Cody, however, with Brian Hogan suffering a suspected broken finger and he is now a major doubt for the match with Tipperary.
What???!?? that wasn't an ACL tear then. No way.
Seems impossible. Partial tear ??
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 26, 2010, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 26, 2010, 08:32:14 AM
Henry Shefflin is on course to be fit for the All-Ireland Senior Hurling final after coming through a full training session with Kilkenny in Nowlan Park on Wednesday night.Tommy Walsh, Richie Power and John Tennyson also took part in the session despite injury worries in a major boost to the Cats.
Walsh looks like overcoming a shoulder injury picked up in a club match with Tulloran.
A crowd of almost 8,000 attended the training exercise. It wasn't all good news for Brian Cody, however, with Brian Hogan suffering a suspected broken finger and he is now a major doubt for the match with Tipperary.
What???!?? that wasn't an ACL tear then. No way.
That's what I was thinking.
Either Shefflin didn't tear his cruciate and they're making it out to be worse than it is to f**k with Tipp or they're implying there's a chance he will play some part in the game and that'll also f**k with Tipp.
Who says Cody doesn't do the mind games?
If it really was a tear then they're just building up his leg muscles around the knee before the operation.
Only heard the reports on radio this morning and amazing stuff alright.
Apparently he came through a full 50 minute game, although the fella on newstalk did stress that he was not involved in any "heavy" challenges.
Realistically, if you were a KK player in training last night you are not going to hammer into him in front of 8,000 KK fans with the possibility that you were the person who stopped him from making the final.
I still think it is too big a risk. Players can play without a cruciate (Dermot Earley), but you need to have a lot of work done to build up your quad muscles in order for them to cover for what the crusiate does. He has only 10 days to go. John Tennyson ruptured his cruciate about 2 weeks before Henry and also played last night but apparently had to come off injured.
If you start Shefflin and he comes off within first 5 minutes then it would be a massive boost for Tipp. Similiarly if you spring him from the bench and he has to go off after only a few minutes then that would be even worse.
Make no mistake, Tipp will surely land a few heavy hits to test him (as any team would).
If Shefflin stays ok for next 10 days, it'll be interesting to see what does Cody do?
If I was a Tipp man I'd be delighted with all this. All the focus/attention is on Kilkenny and more especially Shefflin. And I don't care what anyone else says, but if he does play and he really does have a torn cruciate then there is no way he can be as good as he would have been had he not torn it, and that begs the question for Cody -should he start him or not?
read the reports on kkcats.com. Henry trained but very much held back.
which is contrary from the typical bullshit Ian O'Riordan is peddling in the Irish Times today about Henry pushing himself for every ball. The same Ian O'Riordan who said only the other week that Kilkenny's training methods should be called into question given the number of cruciate ligament injuries suffered by their players over the last couple of years (JJ *1, Tennyson *1, Richie O'Neill *2, Henry *2). Thats loads.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 26, 2010, 09:17:03 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 26, 2010, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 26, 2010, 08:32:14 AM
Henry Shefflin is on course to be fit for the All-Ireland Senior Hurling final after coming through a full training session with Kilkenny in Nowlan Park on Wednesday night.Tommy Walsh, Richie Power and John Tennyson also took part in the session despite injury worries in a major boost to the Cats.
Walsh looks like overcoming a shoulder injury picked up in a club match with Tulloran.
A crowd of almost 8,000 attended the training exercise. It wasn't all good news for Brian Cody, however, with Brian Hogan suffering a suspected broken finger and he is now a major doubt for the match with Tipperary.
What???!?? that wasn't an ACL tear then. No way.
That's what I was thinking.
Either Shefflin didn't tear his cruciate and they're making it out to be worse than it is to f**k with Tipp or they're implying there's a chance he will play some part in the game and that'll also f**k with Tipp.
Who says Cody doesn't do the mind games?
If it really was a tear then they're just building up his leg muscles around the knee before the operation.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. There is no way, absolutely no way at all possible that he should be able to play with a torn cruciate..did he do his cruciate or not or is this just ridiculous mind games from Cody, who's fans and himself will tell you again and again the man doesn't play mind games. Guess he does now.
You either tear your cruciate or you don't. Partially tearing it, I mean I've never even heard of that, someone half doing their cruciate and being able to play less than 1 month later.
Now they've either been playing with Tipps head and there's been no injury, or he's drank some magic potion that has gotten him half fit for the game because there is absolutely no way that he should be able to play if he did in his ACL. It's supposed to take about 7 months, not less than 1 month to heal.
And if the cruciate is gone and they're playing him they're risking damaging it more.
Cody really most be feeling nervous if he's playing this level of mind games with Tipp..something he's not none for.
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on August 26, 2010, 09:17:03 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 26, 2010, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 26, 2010, 08:32:14 AM
Henry Shefflin is on course to be fit for the All-Ireland Senior Hurling final after coming through a full training session with Kilkenny in Nowlan Park on Wednesday night.Tommy Walsh, Richie Power and John Tennyson also took part in the session despite injury worries in a major boost to the Cats.
Walsh looks like overcoming a shoulder injury picked up in a club match with Tulloran.
A crowd of almost 8,000 attended the training exercise. It wasn't all good news for Brian Cody, however, with Brian Hogan suffering a suspected broken finger and he is now a major doubt for the match with Tipperary.
What???!?? that wasn't an ACL tear then. No way.
That's what I was thinking.
Either Shefflin didn't tear his cruciate and they're making it out to be worse than it is to f**k with Tipp or they're implying there's a chance he will play some part in the game and that'll also f**k with Tipp.
Who says Cody doesn't do the mind games?
If it really was a tear then they're just building up his leg muscles around the knee before the operation.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. There is no way, absolutely no way at all possible that he should be able to play with a torn cruciate..did he do his cruciate or not or is this just ridiculous mind games from Cody, who's fans and himself will tell you again and again the man doesn't play mind games.
You either tear your cruciate or you don't. Partially tearing it, I mean I've never even heard of that, someone half doing their cruciate. Now they've either been playing with Tipps head and there's been no injury, or he's drank some magic potion that has gotten him half fit for the game because there is absolutely no way that he should be able to play if he did in his knee the way they've said he has because it's supposed to take about 7 months, not less than 1 month to heal.
And if the cruciate is gone and they're playing him they're risking damaging it more.
Cody really most be feeling nervous if he's playing this level of mind games with Tipp..something he's not none for.
You can either rupture the ACL which is a 100% tear or a partial tear. With a partial tear, lads usually don't opt for surgery and play on until it almost inevitably tears completely at some stage in the future.
So yes, it is possible to have a partial tear. Plenty players have had partial tears and play on.
Quote from: orangeman on August 26, 2010, 11:40:32 AM
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on August 26, 2010, 09:17:03 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 26, 2010, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 26, 2010, 08:32:14 AM
Henry Shefflin is on course to be fit for the All-Ireland Senior Hurling final after coming through a full training session with Kilkenny in Nowlan Park on Wednesday night.Tommy Walsh, Richie Power and John Tennyson also took part in the session despite injury worries in a major boost to the Cats.
Walsh looks like overcoming a shoulder injury picked up in a club match with Tulloran.
A crowd of almost 8,000 attended the training exercise. It wasn't all good news for Brian Cody, however, with Brian Hogan suffering a suspected broken finger and he is now a major doubt for the match with Tipperary.
What???!?? that wasn't an ACL tear then. No way.
That's what I was thinking.
Either Shefflin didn't tear his cruciate and they're making it out to be worse than it is to f**k with Tipp or they're implying there's a chance he will play some part in the game and that'll also f**k with Tipp.
Who says Cody doesn't do the mind games?
If it really was a tear then they're just building up his leg muscles around the knee before the operation.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. There is no way, absolutely no way at all possible that he should be able to play with a torn cruciate..did he do his cruciate or not or is this just ridiculous mind games from Cody, who's fans and himself will tell you again and again the man doesn't play mind games.
You either tear your cruciate or you don't. Partially tearing it, I mean I've never even heard of that, someone half doing their cruciate. Now they've either been playing with Tipps head and there's been no injury, or he's drank some magic potion that has gotten him half fit for the game because there is absolutely no way that he should be able to play if he did in his knee the way they've said he has because it's supposed to take about 7 months, not less than 1 month to heal.
And if the cruciate is gone and they're playing him they're risking damaging it more.
Cody really most be feeling nervous if he's playing this level of mind games with Tipp..something he's not none for.
You can either rupture the ACL which is a 100% tear or a partial tear. With a partial tear, lads usually don't opt for surgery and play on until it almost inevitably tears completely at some stage in the future.
So yes, it is possible to have a partial tear. Plenty players have had partial tears and play on.
Yes, I know you can partially tear it, but when they find out that they've done it, there's no way they're playing 1 month later. Now we were told he did his ACL. Now they're saying he'll probably play. Which one is it, because the way it stands now in the media there will be a hell of a long list of people heading to Kilkenny to drink the magic water down there that fixed his ACL in less than a month.
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 11:28:24 AM
did he do his cruciate or not or is this just ridiculous mind games from Cody, who's fans and himself will tell you again and again the man doesn't play mind games. Guess he does now.
ah, you've found Kilkenny out Relliers. They took Henry off in the first half of the Cork game even though there was nothing wrong with him, just to mess with Tipp's (who hadn't even qualified for the all-Ireland at that stage) heads.
cop on you clown
I think we are all getting confused here.
It takes almost a minimum of 6 months to return to sport after you have had the surgery. As Orangeman has said, with a partial tear most people will contunue to play on until the cruciate has completely torn, and this is especially so if ther are in mid-season, as the person may have a reasonable chance of getting through rest of season, and then go for the reconstruction in off-season.
As far as I'm aware Dermot Earley is currently playing without a cruciate, but in order to do this he would have had to spend a massive amount of time in gym building up his quad muscles to compensate for the missing cruciate. I'd be very surprised if Shefflin whill have enough quad strength to achieve this, but I wouldn't rule it out.
The best way to explain it is to know that the ACL keeps your shin & thigh bones in stability. If there is no cruciate you risk getting these bones out of alignment on an impact challenge or from twistin/turning and this will be quite painful and result in a lot of swelling and this is what happened to Dermot Early at start of Meath game. In his case he has to wait for swelling to go down and work on building back up his leg muscles which all takes a few weeks.
With a partial tear, the risk is that an impact will cause a complete tear as the ligament is already damaged and prone to more damage.
It's kind of similiar to a dislocated shoulder. Once it happens the first time there is always a risk that it can happen again, except that with cruciate the risk is probably greater.
PS I'm not in medical profession so I may not be 100% accurate on this.
if he does play in the final surely it will have to be at 100% cause whether or not he is recovered the first chance they get tipp will try crease him and you couldn't blame them.
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 26, 2010, 12:14:42 PM
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 11:28:24 AM
did he do his cruciate or not or is this just ridiculous mind games from Cody, who's fans and himself will tell you again and again the man doesn't play mind games. Guess he does now.
ah, you've found Kilkenny out Relliers. They took Henry off in the first half of the Cork game even though there was nothing wrong with him, just to mess with Tipp's (who hadn't even qualified for the all-Ireland at that stage) heads.
cop on you clown
Ya, because this is just all so clear cut. There is clearly something wrong with his knee, they couldn't have known only going on what Shefflin said on the day, the extent of the damage so they took him off.
But KK are pissing around not telling us what is going on, he's going to play, there's no chance he'll play, he played a full 100% participation in training, a miracle recovery..etc. They are playing mind games, which is clear as day. And not typical Cody, or Kilkenny for that matter. And you gotta wonder why he's changed his form.
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on August 26, 2010, 12:32:36 PM
if he does play in the final surely it will have to be at 100% cause whether or not he is recovered the first chance they get tipp will try crease him and you couldn't blame them.
IF he plays and he falls, or if Tipp push him to the limit and really work him, which I fully expect them to do, KK wouldn't show any mercy, and Tipp wont, and he falls or does more damage to it, surely it'll really just completely f**k it up.
no, completely incorrect. Kilkenny said nothing at all. It was the media that started with this bullshit. Ian O'Riordan and the likes. Kilkenny never said a word, unless asked. It was the same with every other injury. Tommy Walsh, it was said on the 6 o'clock news after the Tipp-Waterford game, had broken his collar-bone. Again, this was bullshit but it didn't stop Darragh Moloney buying into the sensationalist bullshit that journalists insist on when it comes to Kilkenny players. Hogan's injury was overplayed too, and I expect the latest knock he picked up last night will be also.
As for now, it seems pretty clear. Henry was told by Ger Hartmann that if the rest of the knee ligaments hold strong, theres a slim chance he can play. Cody will give him every chance, given the player he is. The team will be named friday week. Only then we'll know for sure if he plays or not, but the likelihood is that he won't
Whats so ambiguous about that now tell me?
And why do we not get the same kind of information about Tipp? Why aren't the journos down in Thurles watching how they're getting on in training? Because sensationalising every little thing to do with Tipp doesn't have the same impact as doing likewise with Kilkenny does.
This isn't mind-games. This is media bullshit, plain and simple.
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 26, 2010, 01:16:24 PM
no, completely incorrect. Kilkenny said nothing at all. It was the media that started with this bullshit. Ian O'Riordan and the likes. Kilkenny never said a word, unless asked. It was the same with every other injury. Tommy Walsh, it was said on the 6 o'clock news after the Tipp-Waterford game, had broken his collar-bone. Again, this was bullshit but it didn't stop Darragh Moloney buying into the sensationalist bullshit that journalists insist on when it comes to Kilkenny players. Hogan's injury was overplayed too, and I expect the latest knock he picked up last night will be also.
As for now, it seems pretty clear. Henry was told by Ger Hartmann that if the rest of the knee ligaments hold strong, theres a slim chance he can play. Cody will give him every chance, given the player he is. The team will be named friday week. Only then we'll know for sure if he plays or not, but the likelihood is that he won't
Whats so ambiguous about that now tell me?
And why do we not get the same kind of information about Tipp? Why aren't the journos down in Thurles watching how they're getting on in training? Because sensationalising every little thing to do with Tipp doesn't have the same impact as doing likewise with Kilkenny does.
This isn't mind-games. This is media bullshit, plain and simple.
The media came out with the fact at the start he might be playing, someone from KK then came out and said there's no chance, or something to that note anyway, now he's back training for all the world to see. For all the cameras to see.
Oh no not at all, anyone else and it would be mind games. Same way Kilkenny don't do tactics. It may be exagerated by the media. But there is a sense of mind games going on here.
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 11:28:24 AM
You either tear your cruciate or you don't. Partially tearing it, I mean I've never even heard of that, someone half doing their cruciate and being able to play less than 1 month later.
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 11:45:48 AM
Yes, I know you can partially tear it
You're a clown.
Quote from: gallsman on August 26, 2010, 01:26:12 PM
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 11:28:24 AM
You either tear your cruciate or you don't. Partially tearing it, I mean I've never even heard of that, someone half doing their cruciate and being able to play less than 1 month later.
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 11:45:48 AM
Yes, I know you can partially tear it
You're a clown.
You're a dope for not reading a full post and like so many other of you're type you take it out of context, I said, I've never heard of someone who damages their cruciate, know they do damage to it, and is playing a month later. But sure lets highlight the bits you want to make a childish post. But I suppose you'll have to wait for bottlethrower7 to make another post so you can copy and paste from you. Well done you!
Quote from: 'Ian O'Riordan'The ACL is only one of four major ligaments in the knee, and Hartmann's theory is that if the rest of the knee is undamaged, which in Shefflin's case it was, then it is possible to restore full and complete strength.
so you know better than Ger Hartmann Reilliers, yea?
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 01:20:14 PM
But there is a sense of mind games going on here.
well, which is it? Mind games or a sense of mind games? They're 2 very different things.
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 26, 2010, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: 'Ian O'Riordan'The ACL is only one of four major ligaments in the knee, and Hartmann's theory is that if the rest of the knee is undamaged, which in Shefflin's case it was, then it is possible to restore full and complete strength.
so you know better than Ger Hartmann Reilliers, yea?
Why is it you don't have a go at anyone else.. ffs. It just seems incredibly rare, if this was the case surely more people would be doing it. It is only a theory, and if it was in terms that easy, surely you'd see more players doing it, especially in the premiership with the soccer.
You honestly think that there are no mind games in this whatsoever?
yes, honestly
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 26, 2010, 03:20:04 PM
yes, honestly
Let me guess you believe that Kilkenny don't do tactics either.
Oh come on you can't be that naive. If this was Sheedy, it'd be a different story.
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 03:22:34 PM
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 26, 2010, 03:20:04 PM
yes, honestly
Let me guess you believe that Kilkenny don't do tactics either.
Oh come on you can't be that naive. If this was Sheedy, it'd be a different story.
Kilkenny most certainly do do tactics. But those tactic tend to be very straightforward and sensible, and don't involve convoluted game plans that players struggle to keep up with.
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 26, 2010, 03:45:33 PM
Quote from: Reillers on August 26, 2010, 03:22:34 PM
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 26, 2010, 03:20:04 PM
yes, honestly
Let me guess you believe that Kilkenny don't do tactics either.
Oh come on you can't be that naive. If this was Sheedy, it'd be a different story.
Kilkenny most certainly do do tactics. But those tactic tend to be very straightforward and sensible, and don't involve convoluted game plans that players struggle to keep up with.
;D ;D everytime
Kilkenny have the simplest of tactics, win the fooking ball. The half backs stay in half backs the midfielders stay in midfield. the forward lines does a bit of rotating. but that's brilliant, as a defender there is nothing worse than having to always watch your man. What clampet stays in the one position up front now?
After reading this Article is it any wonder Kilkenny are going for 5 in a row
Operation Henry
17 days to rebuild the hurling king - how it was done
By Cliona Foley
Saturday August 28 2010
WHEN the greatest hurler in history embraced his opponent at the end of the 2004 All-Ireland final and then went to swop shirts with him, he was stopped in his tracks.
"Sorry Henry," apologised Sean Og O hAilpin, "but I have to keep this for a man in Limerick."
If Henry Shefflin didn't know then who Gerard Hartmann was, he has certainly got to know him intimately in the past 16 days.
The gift of the jersey was O hAilpin's way of thanking Hartmann for rebuilding his knee after a horrendous car crash in 2001 and they've remained firm friends since.
That framed No 7 Cork jersey now hangs in one of Hartmann's treatment rooms, probably not far from where Shefflin has been repeatedly driven through his own pain threshold in the past fortnight.
The University Arena in Castletroy, Limerick is an ultra-modern sports complex that includes the 50m swimming pool into which Wexford prodigy Grainne Murphy quietly slips at 5.20 most mornings.
Upstairs is Hartmann's International Sports Injury Clinic, which he moved to from Limerick's Patrick Street in May 2007.
Museum
His reception rooms house 'The Hartmann Collection', an extraordinarily rich museum of sporting memorabilia and tributes donated by his veritable 'who's who' of world-class sporting clients or friends, especially from track and field.
Paula Radcliffe, Sonia O'Sullivan and Kelly Holmes, sprinters like Colin Jackson and a plethora of African distance stars from Kenya's Moses Kiptanui to Ethiopia's current track queen Tirunesh Dibaba have all been treated by Hartmann.
Yet of all the ground-breaking recoveries that the world-renowned Irish physical therapist has pulled off for over 50 Olympic medallists and world champions, getting an amateur hurler through the All-Ireland final next Sunday, just four weeks after he tore a cruciate ligament, might yet be his greatest.
The cruciate is one of four ligaments that stabilise the knee, but by far the most critical.
For competitive athletes, a tear in it usually necessitates surgery and nowadays it takes just six to eight months to get back to competitive action afterwards.
But Henry Shefflin hasn't got eight months.
When his left knee buckled ominously against Galway on August 8 it was four weeks away from the All-Ireland final.
In normal circumstances he might have called time on his season, but there is nothing normal about Shefflin or these circumstances.
The Ballyhale legend is the physical and spiritual leader of a Kilkenny team chasing hurling immortality through a first five-in-a-row.
So, as soon as he went down Kilkenny's management sprang into emergency action.
Quick-thinking team doctor Tadgh Crowley arranged for Shefflin and Brian Hogan (shoulder injury) to be immediately whisked from Croke Park to the cryotherapy clinic in White's Hotel Wexford.
It is believed that cryotherapy in the first 30 minutes after an acute injury lowers the inflammation and speeds up the healing by 75pc.
Yes, Wexford was more than a half-hour away, but anything Kilkenny could do to try to minimise the damage was worth a shot.
With cruciate injuries there is little point in doing an MRI scan straight away because the amount of internal bleeding blurs the imagery, so Shefflin's knee was not scanned until Tuesday.
That afternoon, surgeon Tadhg O'Sullivan, the Munster expert who successfully operated on Shefflin's right cruciate in 2007, confirmed his worst fears.
Options
Yet the player and Kilkenny wanted to explore his non-surgical options and contacted Hartmann, who has worked something of a miracle on cruciates before, not just O hAilpin's.
Five years ago, Munster out-half Ronan O'Gara suffered a grade two tear of his cruciate in a Celtic League match against Newport Gwent Dragons. The quarter-final of the Heineken Cup against Biarritz was only weeks away and immediately written off, but there was a Lions Tour to New Zealand fast approaching.
Surgery would have ruled O'Gara out of the Lions trip, but top knee specialist Ray Moran, brother of Kevin, has a close working relationship with Hartmann and consulted with him, and the Limerickman felt he could rehabilitate the Irish star in time -- without surgery.
Five weeks later, O'Gara was back training with Munster. In another two weeks, he not only played in Munster's Celtic Cup final against Llanelli but was 'Man of the Match', scoring 17 points, including an early try.
O'Gara's dramatically rapid recovery confirmed Hartmann's radical theory that if all the other ligaments in the knee are undamaged, intensive strengthening work can stabilise it enough to compensate for a damaged cruciate.
It was achieved through a combination of intense physio and exhausting strength and explosive plyometric exercises designed to reinforce every sinew around the knee.
Only the bodies of top-class athletes could cope with such an accelerated rehabilitation programme.
O'Gara himself described it as "murder, the hardest thing I ever had to do in my career."
To do it, Shefflin and fellow Kilkenny cruciate victim John Tennyson actually moved down to Limerick for the past two weeks, living in a house just off the UL campus that Hartmann's international clients regularly use.
Their intensive regime of two days' treatment, alternated with one day's rest, kicked in. If the players wanted to go home on their 'off' days, the County Board organised a driver to ferry them.
Last Monday night was Kilkenny's pre-All-Ireland press conference and manager Brian Cody was peppered with Shefflin questions.
Was it true he was getting treatment? Could he possibly play some part?
Cody kept it deliberately vague. "It's in the lap of the gods, we're talking miracles, we're trying to defy medical opinion here," he said.
Two nights later they did.
Kilkenny fans who habitually watch pre-All Ireland training gasped in disbelief when, at 6.47 last Wednesday, Shefflin ran out among his team-mates.
As word spread through the Marble City of the Cat's own hurling Lazarus, cars were abandoned and traffic chaos reigned around Nowlan Park as close to 8,000 fans swarmed in, their eyes on sticks.
There was no strapping on Henry's left knee yet he took a full part in the warm-up; hopping, jumping, twisting and turning without any apparent discomfort.
Then he actually lined out at centre-forward in the internal training match and got a few points.
Even a neutral observer like Cork's Donal O'Grady was gob-smacked. "You wouldn't think that he was injured watching him," he observed. "He did the drills and the stretches and then took part in the match. He didn't stand out in the game, but he got through it."
So, will Shefflin play in the All-Ireland final?
Rigours
Kilkenny have their last 'heavy' training session today and Cody has indicated that players must come through its considerable rigours to be considered match fit.
Hartmann is still expected to treat Shefflin again mid-week and could yet work on him at the weekend also. Sources say he has been stunned by the hurler's physical ability, work-rate and tenacity.
Shefflin's swift return to training indicates that they have, jointly, already defied medical opinion. But right now even those closest to 'Operation Henry' don't know yet whether or not he will be ready for the white-hot heat of an All-Ireland decider.
Trying to recover this way is an unprecedented race against time and a massive gamble.
But it is one, apparently, that Shefflin (31) was willing to risk, so desperate was he to avoid another cruciate surgery and the long rehabilitation that entails.
The Kilkenny management are unlikely to play him unless they are 100pc convinced he is risk free and fully ready.
And, given Hartmann's exacting standards, he would only deem 'Operation Henry' a success if Kilkenny's hurling king gives another of his trademark masterclasses in the All-Ireland final that everyone expected him to miss.
- Cliona Foley
Brilliant stuff, cant wait for the final, i've my ticket, Premier, Cusack Stand on the 45.
Might even buy a Kikenny top!! (thats them beat)
Hopefully you are a bit more sober than the last time I saw you in Croker..........
Yes i really really really intend to ;)
weekends away are for living, Sky plus button is for reliving the match
This will be the first one I miss in a few years, wee girls b'day on Saturday and it is her b'day on the Sunday next year :'( Gonna have to plan a Munster Final weekend instead.
Thats not good minder!!! that will hamper you in years to come!!! we are heading for the sevens this year again. staying in Gardener Street!!!
tempted to take car but i've booked off Monday!!! worse day to, all the kids start that day ;D ;D
Aye well after next year that will be me ok for a few years. Will be interesting watching the match without my head bouncing for a change. Sevens are the best part of the weekend.
Munster final weeked is a must. done it a few years ago, drove down with Karl and Gaga, Thurles was electric that day, the sun was blazing and Waterford won a great match against Cork.
was that 04 miltown row2? if it was you saw the best game ive ever seen in my life, the place was buzzing that day. one of my best days ever in thurles and what a match
It shows how well organized the Kilkenny backroom team are. It was explained in one article that there is a golden hour between the time of the injury and the time the treatment is applied to prevent inflamation to the injured area. By all accounts Henry was in the facility in Wexford before the game ended in Croke Park. There is a huge difference between being that well organized (knowing Hartman was available, getting the players to Wexford) and the commitment of the player to undergo the rigorous treatment procedure than 'mind games'. Don't you agree Reillers????
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on August 29, 2010, 10:36:43 AM
was that 04 miltown row2? if it was you saw the best game ive ever seen in my life, the place was buzzing that day. one of my best days ever in thurles and what a match
the year Mullane was sent off and they won by a point. too many other great moments in that game to mention
Sorry lads. There was I thinking this thread was about Henry Shefflins injury.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 29, 2010, 01:12:00 PM
There is a huge difference between being that well organized (knowing Hartman was available, getting the players to Wexford) and the commitment of the player to undergo the rigorous treatment procedure than 'mind games'. Don't you agree Reillers????
Reillers opinions have been taken as gospel for a long time around here Bud - if Reillers believes Sheflins recuperation is 'mind games' then I believe him.
Bud Wiser, I love your comment that Kilkenny were so organised that they were "knowing Hartman was available".
There is no way that Hartman was available. I'd be pretty certain if you rang him in the morning you would probably have to wait a good few weeks if not months to get an appointment. The same goes for all the top sports surgeons physios such as Ray Moran, Tadgh O'Sullivan.
I remember trying to get an appointment with one of those guys and being told I would have to wait at least 6 weeks, yet when an intercounty player gets injured on the Sunday, they are usually "fitted in" by the Tuesday. Top profile players always get 1st class preferential treatment and that's just the way it is. One of the perks you could call it, and that's for all sports be it GAA, rugby, soccer, athletics etc.
I do agree with you that shipping them off to Wexford was indeed fantastic management, whether it was from Cody, his back room team, the county board or indeed the players themselves.
I agree roashter but I deduced from the article that I read that the Cat's backroom team had done their sums to the extent that if anyone got a hit, be it a broken finger, ankle or in this case a cruciate, that they had plans in place. It just goes to show what the Cork boys may have been annoyed about when Kilkenny said they were looked after well enough without the GPA. Brian Hogan broke his finger in the same game as Henry did the knee in and he was ready to play on Sunday as well only for he broke the same finger in training last Wednesday. The upside of Hogan's injury was that it was in a final wind-down session or it could have been his arm !!
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 30, 2010, 09:55:19 AM
I agree roashter but I deduced from the article that I read that the Cat's backroom team had done their sums to the extent that if anyone got a hit, be it a broken finger, ankle or in this case a cruciate, that they had plans in place. It just goes to show what the Cork boys may have been annoyed about when Kilkenny said they were looked after well enough without the GPA. Brian Hogan broke his finger in the same game as Henry did the knee in and he was ready to play on Sunday as well only for he broke the same finger in training last Wednesday. The upside of Hogan's injury was that it was in a final wind-down session or it could have been his arm !!
I think that Cody knew which way this was going, he could have said straight off what was going on instead of letting the media run with it..and at the start anyway it confused everyone and no doubt Tipp as well. Ya I think the media have taken off with it and he'll be getting annoyed with it. For me all this talk of injury has has taken the heat of the "drive for 5" which is what they wanted, because it was building up like crazy.
And there is no way that a guy like Hartman was just "available" there is probably a waiting list as long as the country waiting for him. But those top players will get priority and top treatment, and believe it or not, and this may come as shock to you, but it's actually a good thing when a CB treats their players with respect, and well enough that they're willing to do whatever it takes. Strangely we all view that as a good thing.
I mean, a team like Kilkenny may not "need" the GPA, (that said I doubt if a KK player gets offered a car from the GPA as an award, they wont refuse it because they get treated just so well from their CB) but many counties do, and that's what they are there. Why you have to bring this back to the GPA every single time is..well it's a little too much.
Personally I don't believe that Cody is playing mind games. In fact I reckon he is very unhappy the way all this is being handled in the public.
You must look at it from his point of view. He was told on the Monday/Tuesday that Shefflin had torn his cruciate and that he would not play in final -end of story. Next thing we hear is that Shefflin is so determined to play that he is working with one of the best sports medical people in the world and has a "slim" chance of making the final. What is Cody supposed to do? He can't just say that Shefflin is out. He has to give him every chance of being able to play. Of course it's only natural that the media will seize on this story and it has dominated the sports papers for last few days, and will enevitably be the top story in the lead up to the final.
People are saying that this suits Kilkenny in that everyone is talking of the injuries and not the 5-in-a-row. There has practically been nothing written on Tipp's preparations, and they must be delighted with all the focus on Kilkenny.
I guarantee that if Tipp win the final, and regardless of whether Shefflin plays or not, everyone will say that Kilkenny got too distracted by the injuries and all the publicity that went with it.
So what if he uses mind games, and if he has said in the past he doesn't use mind games then so fook. If any poster on here was looking after their club team you'd all be at it leading up to a final.
A good mananger never shows his hand, a good manager waits and decides whats best for the team if a player needs a late medical before not/or starting then thats what you do. This is an exceptional player, if he can play then Cody will play him, but i would only imagine if he's fit.
Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, no one in Kilkenny will say they were beat (if that happens) because of injuries or the media. It's the 15/20 players that are used in the final that will either win or lose the match.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 30, 2010, 02:47:17 PM
So what if he uses mind games, and if he has said in the past he doesn't use mind games then so fook. If any poster on here was looking after their club team you'd all be at it leading up to a final.
A good mananger never shows his hand, a good manager waits and decides whats best for the team if a player needs a late medical before not/or starting then thats what you do. This is an exceptional player, if he can play then Cody will play him, but i would only imagine if he's fit.
Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, no one in Kilkenny will say they were beat (if that happens) because of injuries or the media. It's the 15/20 players that are used in the final that will either win or lose the match.
I have no problem whatsoever with him using mind games. You do what ya gotta do. But it's the people who deny, like Bud, up and down, that Cody ever uses mind games. They all do it, and they all do it to get the upper hand, nobody's above it.
I agree with you, they were obviously going to do just about anything to get him to play, it is an almighty gamble, but he's that good of a player. If he play's they've a much better chance of winning, without him, Tipp will fancy their chances a lot more. They know they left it behind them last year and they will be desperate to win it this year.
And I think, if KK gamble and put out a half injured Shefflin, they wont hesitate to try and exploit that.
We'll have to wait and see what happens though. Should be a great match. Lets just hope it's reffed fairly and the result isn't due to a poor display from the ref.
(http://#039;s%20actually%20a%20good%20thing%20when%20a%20CB%20treats%20their%20players%20with%20respect,%20and%20well%20enough%20that%20they're%20willing%20to%20do%20whatever%20it%20takes.%20Strangely%20we%20all%20view%20that%20as%20a%20good%20thing.)
Reillers, you need help and a dentist is too late because you have certainly lost your wisdom tooth,
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 30, 2010, 08:10:43 PM
(http://#039;s%20actually%20a%20good%20thing%20when%20a%20CB%20treats%20their%20players%20with%20respect,%20and%20well%20enough%20that%20they're%20willing%20to%20do%20whatever%20it%20takes.%20Strangely%20we%20all%20view%20that%20as%20a%20good%20thing.)
Reillers, you need help and a dentist is too late because you have certainly lost your wisdom tooth,
Oh how clever you are..ffs. So you're not going to bother replying. ::)
Quote from: Roashter on August 30, 2010, 01:43:43 PM
Personally I don't believe that Cody is playing mind games. In fact I reckon he is very unhappy the way all this is being handled in the public.
You must look at it from his point of view. He was told on the Monday/Tuesday that Shefflin had torn his cruciate and that he would not play in final -end of story. Next thing we hear is that Shefflin is so determined to play that he is working with one of the best sports medical people in the world and has a "slim" chance of making the final. What is Cody supposed to do? He can't just say that Shefflin is out. He has to give him every chance of being able to play. Of course it's only natural that the media will seize on this story and it has dominated the sports papers for last few days, and will enevitably be the top story in the lead up to the final.
People are saying that this suits Kilkenny in that everyone is talking of the injuries and not the 5-in-a-row. There has practically been nothing written on Tipp's preparations, and they must be delighted with all the focus on Kilkenny.
I guarantee that if Tipp win the final, and regardless of whether Shefflin plays or not, everyone will say that Kilkenny got too distracted by the injuries and all the publicity that went with it.
I agree with all of that Roashter. All this media attention is the last thing Cody would have wanted. In all his time there he has specialised in quiet build ups and kept the media at arm's length. I'd say he'd be very pi$$ed off with this sideshow but as you said he would want to give Henry every chance to play. And he'll know that if they lose the media ( who have created this whole circus themselves) will say that Kilkenny lost their focus because of this.
whats the chance that the fed up Cody wont start Henry even if he is 'ready' (though he could not be 100% given the inj involved imo)
Cody would try to underpin the media frenzy by not playing him.
It could also be the deflection tool by using henry and his inj to take the spotlight off the rest of the team...?
would Cody be that cynical and be bothered enough to do that kind of thing...imo he's too straight to bother his erse doing that...
If Shefflin & Tennyson are to play any part then they HAVE to be started.
Their injuries are not run of the mill, (i.e. they are not fit enough to start and you can throw them on for last 20 minutes.If you bring on these guys and their knees buckle then you will have wasted 2 subs, and will have put a serious dent on the morale of the team.
Look at it this way, if Shefflin comes on in 2nd half for Comerford and his knee gives way after 5 minutes, then do you stick Comerford back on or do you get someone else to come in. Plus can you imagine the lift to Tipperary with Shefflin coming on to a massive roar from Kilkenny supporters only to be hauled off a few minutes later.
At least if they are started, then it would be easier for Cody to bring in his subs should they get injured.
It'll be very interesting alright, and am looking forward to hearing their team being named.
I'd say they'll start on the bench. I'd imagine Henry could be brought on pretty early if they are in trouble but will be left until late in the game if they are ahead. I wouldn't be surprised if Tennyson stays on the bench because of the options they have at the back.
Quote from: Asal Mor on September 01, 2010, 01:13:44 PM
I'd say they'll start on the bench. I'd imagine Henry could be brought on pretty early if they are in trouble but will be left until late in the game if they are ahead. I wouldn't be surprised if Tennyson stays on the bench because of the options they have at the back.
I think they'll start on the bench but I agree with what Roashter is saying, it'd be a waste of subs and it would dent KK morale and lift Tipps, can you imagine, KK's hero coming on to a huge roar, only for him to be taken off 5 mins later. At least if he starts them and his knee goes, they can take him off, make a sub, and it's not really damaging either way.
Tipp will have no mercy and we all know that, they will try to take any advantage and will not play it easy and we all know it. I think he'll deffiently play a part in the game or else Cody really was having us on.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2010, 09:28:16 PM
Munster final weeked is a must. done it a few years ago, drove down with Karl and Gaga, Thurles was electric that day, the sun was blazing and Waterford won a great match against Cork.
Agree with that.
Was at the Munster hurling final a good few times and there is nothing like it...brilliant
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 01, 2010, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2010, 09:28:16 PM
Munster final weeked is a must. done it a few years ago, drove down with Karl and Gaga, Thurles was electric that day, the sun was blazing and Waterford won a great match against Cork.
Agree with that.
Was at the Munster hurling final a good few times and there is nothing like it...brilliant
Yet the Leinster lads want to get rid of it, it really is like nothing else and it's one of the best days out all season. The Leinster lads just don't get it. It'd be a very sad day for hurling if it was gotten rid of.
I beg your pardon? What 'Leinster Lads' want to get rid of the Munster Championship? What I would say is that the mystique about the Munster championship is vastly overrated these days. The good teams are simply using it as a vehicle for competitive matches, not do or die stuff like it used to be when it *was* truly great.
The standard was never as consistently high as some people made it out to be, but the passion was always undiluted. However, I have been to a couple of completely insipid Munster finals recently, and they are nothing compared to the 'Sunny Sunday in the Square in Thurle' of lore.
The passion of the Munster championship can be judged by the attitude Tipp had in Cork this May. They didn't give a continental.
But I don't want rid of it. Far from it, I want it to be like it was. (Same for Leinster by the way)
And don't presume to patronise the 'Leinster Lads'. We get it alright, and we also 'get it' when people are hyping something based on how it was 20 years ago.
Quote from: Reillers on September 01, 2010, 06:03:37 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 01, 2010, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2010, 09:28:16 PM
Munster final weeked is a must. done it a few years ago, drove down with Karl and Gaga, Thurles was electric that day, the sun was blazing and Waterford won a great match against Cork.
Agree with that.
Was at the Munster hurling final a good few times and there is nothing like it...brilliant
Yet the Leinster lads want to get rid of it, it really is like nothing else and it's one of the best days out all season. The Leinster lads just don't get it. It'd be a very sad day for hurling if it was gotten rid of.
Ehhhh I'm from Leinster
Reillers, you are becoming a real pain in the hole at this stage. To even suggest that the "Leinster lads" want to get rid of the Munster Final shows how far the withdrawl symptoms of the latest pasting Cork got from Kilkenny are affecting you. The last time anyone tried to get rid of the Munster Final was (and let me remind you, Tipp were pleading for competition at the time) when Cork went on strike and spat on the ground of Semple Stadium rather than play on it. It was not the 'Leinster Lads' then that almost destroyed what I admit to be one of the greatest days out during the hurling championship, it was your own ilk, the democrats, as your own avatar signature aptly calls 'ya'.
Then, in another thread you have the balls to stick your chest out and cast aspersions on the rights and wrongs of Brian Cody in his position as a manager. FFS, a Corkonian telling a Kilkenny manager how he should not be using 'mind games' ?
I am sure from some of the 3am phone calls there is a manager in your own county who could tell you all about mind games.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on September 01, 2010, 09:39:38 PM
Reillers, you are becoming a real pain in the hole at this stage. To even suggest that the "Leinster lads" want to get rid of the Munster Final shows how far the withdrawl symptoms of the latest pasting Cork got from Kilkenny are affecting you. The last time anyone tried to get rid of the Munster Final was (and let me remind you, Tipp were pleading for competition at the time) when Cork went on strike and spat on the ground of Semple Stadium rather than play on it. It was not the 'Leinster Lads' then that almost destroyed what I admit to be one of the greatest days out during the hurling championship, it was your own ilk, the democrats, as your own avatar signature aptly calls 'ya'.
Then, in another thread you have the balls to stick your chest out and cast aspersions on the rights and wrongs of Brian Cody in his position as a manager. FFS, a Corkonian telling a Kilkenny manager how he should not be using 'mind games' ?
I am sure from some of the 3am phone calls there is a manager in your own county who could tell you all about mind games.
As always you take everything personally. I did not mean that EVERY Leinster man wants to see it gone, and that goes to each one of ye who threw a little fit, but many do, and most I've come across have been Kilkenny fans, but that's just me. Those who want an open draw typically seem to be leinster people. I've not come across one Munster man yet who wants to scrap the provincial championships. Not all of them by any stretch of imagination, but go right ahead and exagerate.
I, if you had read the post you ignored, said there was absolutely nothing wrong with using mind games, you do what you gotta do, I was just making the point that many, like you, can't even see that it's a possibility, like he's above it or something. You're the one who's treating it like it's a bad thing.
And you're back to pathetically bringing up the strike..get over it..build a bridge, get a life, and move on.
To the air of The Rose of Mooncoin
How sweet tis to roam in the Tipp countryside
And to to hear that they now have a good hurling side
Well its taken a long time but they still know the score
That the real Home of Hurling is down by the Nore
Chorus
Good on you Brian Cody, We`d like to thank you
When we beat Tipperary, all our grey skies are blue
Every day is like Christmas and the waters like wine
When we beat Tipperary in the Croke Park Sunshine
Noel Sheedy, Noel Sheedy, it moves me to tears
To know that you wont see an All Ireland for years
But we`ll think of you Noel, you poor ould Shtone Thrower
When we bring back the cup to its home by the Nore
Chorus
Way back in the Sixties, the Tipp men would say
They could beat up Kilkenny, any time any day
But ever since 67, we`ve been good to go
Now they`re just another victim in the Four in a Row
Chorus
Then they said that our Gorta was over the hill
But they just could`nt cope with his pace and his skill
And now Hinry and Tommy and the rest of our Stars
Have a message for Ireland - Munster Hurling Me A*se
Good on you Brian Cody, We`d like to thank you
When we beat Tipperary, all our grey skies are blue
Every day is like Christmas and the waters like wine
When we give Tipp a lesson in the Croke Park Sunshine
Quote from: Reillers on September 01, 2010, 06:03:37 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 01, 2010, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2010, 09:28:16 PM
Munster final weeked is a must. done it a few years ago, drove down with Karl and Gaga, Thurles was electric that day, the sun was blazing and Waterford won a great match against Cork.
Agree with that.
Was at the Munster hurling final a good few times and there is nothing like it...brilliant
Yet the Leinster lads want to get rid of it, it really is like nothing else and it's one of the best days out all season. The Leinster lads just don't get it. It'd be a very sad day for hurling if it was gotten rid of.
You can't blame us for having 'a fit' when you read that above. Does any of that look like 'some Leinster Lads' or 'mostly Kilkenny lads I've been talking to'.
You're right, there are a lot of proponents for the open draw, but a lot of them are from Munster as well because its 'not fair' that Kilkenny have such 'an easy run' (sic).
There are also proponents of the the open draw from Connacht and Ulster as well.
I will agree that even within the open draw, not many Munster lads (apart from Zulu) want to eliminate the Munster Championship, but again I'd say that feeling is common with everyone who likes the Munster Championship.
Finally, everyone seems to agree that the Munster Championship as an institution is a great thing, and has given us fantastic days, but since the inception of the All Ireland Qualifiers, it's main ingredient (the passion), has been dissipating every year, apart from one or two instances, usually involving Waterford.
Clare didn't bother their hole in a Munster Final v Tipp in the Gaelic Grounds a couple of years ago, Tipp didn't bother their hole in the Pairc this year, and many other games have just been 'ho hum' run outs.
Again, I love the pageantry and colour of a Munster Final from the 80s and 90s. Semple Stadium, the Square, the Sun, the Cider and the Craic and I'd love to go back to them.
But I think those days are on the wane.
there have been some cracking finals in the last ten years also AZ not just the 80's and 90's, look at the 04 final. The best match i have ever had the pleasure of watching and this year it may not have been as flamboyant as previous meetings but any final that takes 2 games and extra time to decide has had to have been played flat out by bout teams involved. Munster championship is a fantastic tournament and i for one would be sad to see it go. maybe a stand alone competition before an open draw all ireland is the way to go.
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on September 02, 2010, 04:47:13 PM
there have been some cracking finals in the last ten years also AZ not just the 80's and 90's, look at the 04 final. The best match i have ever had the pleasure of watching and this year it may not have been as flamboyant as previous meetings but any final that takes 2 games and extra time to decide has had to have been played flat out by bout teams involved. Munster championship is a fantastic tournament and i for one would be sad to see it go. maybe a stand alone competition before an open draw all ireland is the way to go.
Few and far between paulie, and getting rarer. The Clare - Tipp one was wicked. The one this year was close, but was it really played at full pelt? Maybe it was, but two poorish teams because the best team in the province decided to mail it in against Cork.
Look, I love the old Munster Championship, but I certainly think it has lost a bit of it's lustre recently. But maybe that's because I'm from Leinster ::)
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 02, 2010, 05:16:33 PM
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on September 02, 2010, 04:47:13 PM
there have been some cracking finals in the last ten years also AZ not just the 80's and 90's, look at the 04 final. The best match i have ever had the pleasure of watching and this year it may not have been as flamboyant as previous meetings but any final that takes 2 games and extra time to decide has had to have been played flat out by bout teams involved. Munster championship is a fantastic tournament and i for one would be sad to see it go. maybe a stand alone competition before an open draw all ireland is the way to go.
I love the old Munster Championship, but I certainly think it has lost a bit of it's lustre recently. But maybe that's because I'm from Leinster ::)
You're one of the Leinster Lads who want to get rid of it AZ!
Did Shefflin get his operation yet ?.
John Tennyson ?
Ballyhale beaten in Kilkenny championship by O'Loughlin Gaels today.
that will be one less medal for your man to boast about!!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2010, 08:35:19 AM
that will be one less medal for your man to boast about!!!
nah, that's senior. With the committment of becoming a full time gaaboard poster he's dropped down to intermediate with the club.
Has anybody any news on Henry's rehab ?
Is he going to give it a go next year ?
found this article in the Irish times.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0129/1224288527584.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0129/1224288527584.html)
Looks like he knew he wasn't 100% going into the final, but give it a lash anyway. Who'd have done it any different themselves?
The work players put in to rehabilitation is intense.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 04, 2011, 02:48:55 PM
found this article in the Irish times.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0129/1224288527584.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0129/1224288527584.html)
Looks like he knew he wasn't 100% going into the final, but give it a lash anyway. Who'd have done it any different themselves?
Was it really worth it?
The hassle of the rehabilitation sounds like something else.
If Kilkenny were shorter on talent and it was their first shot at the All Ireland in 80 years, I'd understand the desire to get Henry on the field.
Had they being playing Limerick or Clare for two in a row, he wouldn't have featured.
The "drive for five" may have clouded things.
I'd be in agreement with that BNM. Must have been clouded. I watched Henry specifically during the warm up and it was as clear as day that he wasn't right slowing down fast and turning even in the controlled setting of a warm up. If they'd have handed on a bit more responsibility to their other established forwards and gave them the month to prepare for the final without him then I think KK would have put on a better show. But they never looked themselves that day and I would say all the will he wont he palava took their eye off the ball. Easy in hindsight of course
That article is grim. I wonder what damage Shefflin will have 20 years from now.
And what the injury will mean for his kids.
Quote from: seafoid on February 05, 2011, 08:13:56 PM
That article is grim. I wonder what damage Shefflin will have 20 years from now.
And what the injury will mean for his kids.
What?
A friend of mine who has businesses down south get Henry to open new stores, the places are bunged with people and he gets a good few pounds to open them. he'll always get work be it his current job or somewhere else.
I'd be more worried about the millions out there who can't afford their mortgages due to no work.
Anyone got any news on Henry ? Will he reappear this year at all ?
He'd need to, cause currently I'd say Kilkenny are third favourite at the minute for the All Ireland. Behind Galway and Tipp at the moment and level with Cork!! I know this may bring back Relliers but Fcuk it
I don't know what makes you think Galway are ahead of them MR and Cork are level...
Kilkenny's biggest problem in my view is sorting out their full back and getting JJ back to where he belongs in the half back line. I still think they'll win the AI this year. Richie Hogan and Colm Fennelly are making a big difference to the forward line and the longish haired guy (is it Mulhall) isn't too bad either. Tipp struggled to put a KK team away who were playing poor in last year's AI final. It was only last ten minutes they pulled away.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 02, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
I don't know what makes you think Galway are ahead of them MR and Cork are level...
Kilkenny's biggest problem in my view is sorting out their full back and getting JJ back to where he belongs in the half back line. I still think they'll win the AI this year. Richie Hogan and Colm Fennelly are making a big difference to the forward line and the longish haired guy (is it Mulhall) isn't too bad either. Tipp struggled to put a KK team away who were playing poor in last year's AI final. It was only last ten minutes they pulled away.
Just going on the results and how the bookies are never too wrong in their predictions.
Tommy Walsh out for the year, Shefflin done, no consistency with the current team. Cody does not know his best team at the minute. But Hey, they are still the team of the past ten years no doubt and should they win Leinster then they are one game from the final ::)
Think Cody may pack it in this year also. He's been brilliant but managing a team for that length of time is crazy nowadays.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2011, 10:24:55 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 02, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
I don't know what makes you think Galway are ahead of them MR and Cork are level...
Kilkenny's biggest problem in my view is sorting out their full back and getting JJ back to where he belongs in the half back line. I still think they'll win the AI this year. Richie Hogan and Colm Fennelly are making a big difference to the forward line and the longish haired guy (is it Mulhall) isn't too bad either. Tipp struggled to put a KK team away who were playing poor in last year's AI final. It was only last ten minutes they pulled away.
Just going on the results and how the bookies are never too wrong in their predictions.
Tommy Walsh out for the year, Shefflin done, no consistency with the current team. Cody does not know his best team at the minute. But Hey, they are still the team of the past ten years no doubt and should they win Leinster then they are one game from the final ::)
Think Cody may pack it in this year also. He's been brilliant but managing a team for that length of time is crazy nowadays.
Out for the entire season ?
KK have suffered badly since the AI defeat in the eyes of the bookies - last year they were 4/7 to win the AI at the start of the season. Now you can get 2/1. Big change.
I wouldn't be writing them off just yet - yes the cracks are starting to appear. But Cody can plaster over them.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2011, 10:24:55 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 02, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
I don't know what makes you think Galway are ahead of them MR and Cork are level...
Kilkenny's biggest problem in my view is sorting out their full back and getting JJ back to where he belongs in the half back line. I still think they'll win the AI this year. Richie Hogan and Colm Fennelly are making a big difference to the forward line and the longish haired guy (is it Mulhall) isn't too bad either. Tipp struggled to put a KK team away who were playing poor in last year's AI final. It was only last ten minutes they pulled away.
Just going on the results and how the bookies are never too wrong in their predictions.
Tommy Walsh out for the year, Shefflin done, no consistency with the current team. Cody does not know his best team at the minute. But Hey, they are still the team of the past ten years no doubt and should they win Leinster then they are one game from the final ::)
Think Cody may pack it in this year also. He's been brilliant but managing a team for that length of time is crazy nowadays.
KK haven't taken the league too seriously this last few years though.
I didn't know that about Tommy Walsh.
Shefflin may not be done yet. Comerford has to get back in yet and, unless I'm mistaken, I've not seen Richie Power(best forward in AI final at least last year) playing yet so I guess he's to come back.
Another KK - Tipp final this year would be the business.
My view, even before last weekend, would always have been Galway are a good bit away. Too many mediocre(for top level) players. The two Kerins and Forde looked as good and better than any county men they have. Jury still out on Cork.
I hear Henry played in a challenge match last week for Ballyhale ?
Quote from: orangeman on April 18, 2011, 03:07:14 PM
I hear Henry played in a challenge match last week for Ballyhale ?
Back training I heard today.
Henry Shefflin made an impressive return to action with Kilkenny in a challenge game with Waterford in Tallow on Sunday.
Shefflin was making his first appearance for the Cats since he was forced out of last year's All-Ireland Hurling final defeat against Tipperary.
The Ballyhale Shamrocks man scored 0-08 including three scores from play in a 0-26 to 3-09 win.
'I've been waiting for this day for a very long time, and I'm more than happy at the way things went for me,' Shefflin told GAA.ie.
'Right now I'm not feeling any ill effects and hopefully I will stay injury free for all of the championship campaign
We got our answer today ( and before this game as well to be fair ) as to his well being.
One year on from another serious injury, he made some return to the fold and was instrumental in today's win, and gave his man a torrid time.
A mighty man !
Out for 6 months now...
Shefflin facing six months out
Kilkenny hurling legend Henry Shefflin is facing the prospect of six months on the sideline recovering from shoulder surgery, it emerged yesterday.
Shefflin, who picked up his eighth All-Ireland senior hurling medal last September in the Cats' win over Tipperary, is to go under the knife to remedy a knock picked up on duty with his club, Ballyhale Shamrocks, in the Kilkenny championship.
"Henry injured his shoulder against O'Loughlin Gaels in the county semi-final," Ballyhale chairman Sean Reid revealed yesterday.
"He was able to play on that day, and he played against James Stephens in the final and the replay as well, but he'll have to have an operation on it soon and he's likely to miss out on at least six months as he recovers.
"That means we'll be without him here in the club for the early part of the county championship, and Kilkenny look like they won't have him at all for the national hurling league, because even if he had the operation right now you'd be talking about May or maybe June before he'd be right."
Shefflin, who will be 33 in January, has battled back from serious injuries in the past. He has recovered from two ruptured cruciate ligament injuries which necessitated operations in recent years, one in the All-Ireland final against Limerick in 2007 and the other picked up against Cork in the All-Ireland semi-final of 2010.
The Cats star resumed his intercounty and club career after both injuries, and even managed to line out in the All-Ireland final of 2010 just weeks after picking up the knee injury, though he was forced off before half-time in Kilkenny's defeat by Tipperary.
The news will come as a headache to Kilkenny manager Brian Cody, particularly with the decision earlier in the week of James 'Cha' Fitzpatrick
to leave the Cats panel at the age of 26.
Looks like Shefflin is going to make a really big tilt at 2014!
Delight for Cody as 'mad to play' Shefflin shakes off rust in style
KILKENNY 1-24 GALWAY 0-15
VINCENT HOGAN – 27 JANUARY 2014
The modernist view of hurling is that Henry Shefflin ought really be in the land of slippers and bi-focals now as he eases his 35-year-old frame through winter's black humour.
But he brought a lyric touch to the artistically spartan business of Walsh Cup hurling yesterday, Kilkenny delivering a quiet, firm statement of renewal in Freshford. With hail sweeping down in agitated tornados from an inky sky and umbrellas snapping like kindling, it would have seemed appropriate to send out an expedition, not a team here.
Yet, Kilkenny essentially rode the conditions home in a storm-assisted second half, turning a four-point half-time deficit into an almost desultory double-digit win.
For Shefflin, it represented his earliest inter-county start in nine years, yet he delivered a flawless free-taking exhibition as well as a good half-dozen gorgeously creative cameos that had the majority of a remarkable 1,500 attendance whooping loud approval.
Brian Cody is maybe too well versed in the murky perils of January tea-leaves to read too much into this, but did reflect: "He (Shefflin) was decent there today. He's in great shape. Essentially it's the first pre-season he has had in four years to be able to get out there and do it and give himself a chance.
"He's mad for it. His hurling the past few years has been very much more limited than he would have wanted it to be. So he's just mad to play, there is no doubt about that. He is bursting to get out there."
For Galway, the second-half fade-out was a concern for Anthony Cunningham, whose wound was salted further by an intemperate late pull from Darragh Burke that brought the young centre-back a straight red card and led to Eoin Larkin's departure on a stretcher.
Larkin was subsequently able to walk back to the dressing-room with his right arm in a sling, the two managers taking rather polarised views of what had happened.
Cunningham described Burke's sending-off as "harsh", suggesting that yellow would have been a more appropriate choice of colour by referee Brian Gavin.
"Darragh Burke had the ball in his hand, threw the ball up to hit it, I think t'was a bit rash or maybe a bit wild, a yellow card it would be in my book really," he said. "There was not intent and, when there isn't any intent, it shouldn't be a red card."
Cody expressed relief that early indications of a broken elbow bone had been readjusted to "bruising", observing flatly: "I don't want to get involved in it. It was something that shouldn't have happened really, but I'm not going to start pontificating about it."
With a gusting wind in their backs, Galway had the better of the first half, yet struggled to build the kind of lead it was clear the conditions demanded.
They'd suffered a fifth-minute sucker-punch when Colin Fennelly goaled after brilliant build-up play between Shefflin, Mark Kelly and Larkin. Galway would win the remainder of the half by 0-11 to 0-4 with the likes of Niall Burke and Cathal Mannion making good use of the elements.
Yet, even then, it was clear that Shefflin, Fennelly and JJ Farrell were on form in the Kilkenny attack while Conor Fogarty and Paul Murphy especially were hurling up a storm on the left side of their defence.
Galway led 0-12 to 1-5 at the interval, but that advantage had disappeared within nine minutes of the resumption. Between the 35th and 55th minutes, Kilkenny outscored their opponents 0-10 to 0-1, Shefflin punishing every Galway misdemeanour with pin-point accuracy.
He set up the score of the game in the 48th minute, spiriting the ball almost magically from a copse of hurleys before finding the unmarked Fennelly with a sublime reverse-pass to the right wing. By now, admittedly, it was one-way traffic, Galway's resilience leaking palpably away.
Cunningham was relatively sanguine when it was over. "We'd be happy enough with our progress and we'll focus on the Railway Cup in two weeks," he reflected. "That's another match before the league. It's Dublin then in Pearse Stadium.
"The championship is the big one for us and we have to give guys experience in the league. We saw that today, we had Sylvie Linnane and Gearoid McInerney, playing there, two wing-backs, Darragh Burke, second season but also getting a flavour of it, Padraig Landers and Richie Cummins, players up front.
"We'll try and get experience. You can train away, but it's only when you come up against top-class inter-county players you know if you are going to step up to the mark."
Kilkenny now face Dublin in Croke Park in Saturday's final, Cody reflecting: "It means another match, which is good. The league is coming up obviously very soon, so matches are good for us. I'm happy enough, definitely."
SCORERS – Kilkenny: H Shefflin 0-13 (12fs), C Fennelly 1-3, JJ Farrell 0-3, A Fogarty, B Hogan, E Larkin, P Walsh and M Kelly 0-1 each. Galway: N Healy 0-8 (6 fs, 1 '65'), N Burke, C Mannion 0-2 each, D Glennon, Darragh Burke, C Callanan (f) 0-1 each.
KILKENNY – E Murphy, S Prendergast, M Walsh, C Fogarty, J Holden, B Hogan, P Murphy, A Fogarty, P Phelan, H Shefflin, C Fennelly, E Larkin, JJ Farrell, M Kelly, L Ryan. Subs: T Breen for Ryan (45), D Langton for Murphy (52), P Walsh for A Fogarty (52), T Keogh for Prendergast (59).
GALWAY – C Callanan, F Moore, R Burke, J Coen, G McInerney, Darragh Burke, S Og Linnane, C Mannion, A Harte, D Glennon, J Glynn, N Burke, P Landers, C Cooney, N Healy. Subs: B Flaherty for Harte (55), R Cummins for Glennon (55), D Dolan for N Burke (65).
Ref – B Gavin (Offaly)
Seems the king has rolled back the years, Some of his touches were amazing at the weekend. His free taking is worth its weight in gold to Kilkenny!
I'd keep my powder dry for a while yet on Henry till the sod drys out.
Whilst he looks to have gotten himself in great shape, the game if anything has got faster, speed was never Henrys forte, can't see him bursting passed many defenders like of yore. His vision and passing is still something else, but he'll need to likes of Colin Fennelly running off him to have an impact.
I think mouview is right. Henry is BOD with a helmet.
Mortal now. Is he 35?
Fennelly looks pretty tasty at number 11 it has to be said. Their forward line looks to be threatening again with the younger guns being the leading lights. But their backline look to be a fair bit off the pace. Joyce not a tight enough marker and too slow on the turn going by last Sunday. Tommy Walsh also...did he touch a ball? I can't remember.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 27, 2014, 01:47:22 PM
Fennelly looks pretty tasty at number 11 it has to be said. Their forward line looks to be threatening again with the younger guns being the leading lights. But their backline look to be a fair bit off the pace. Joyce not a tight enough marker and too slow on the turn going by last Sunday. Tommy Walsh also...did he touch a ball? I can't remember.
If Kilkenny are to win the AI this year it'll be off the backs of the two Fennellys, Rice, the two Richies and Paul Murphy. Some of the new lads in defence have a bit of speed and have looked decent enough, but only time will tell for them but new blood will be required in defence from last year and Cody knows it.
Fenelly was outstanding throughout but it took Richie Hogan to come on and turn the tide i thought anyway. Not the most silky hurlers in the ff line but certainly ball winners and serious workers. Cody looks to be saying you'll not be near the team unless your're knocking your pan in no matter how good a stick man you think you are.