http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-doubt-theory-evolution.aspx
Who would have thought that both sides in the Stormont negotiations would have so similar views!
Quote from: ludermor on February 02, 2010, 05:18:19 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-doubt-theory-evolution.aspx
Who would have thought that both sides in the Stormont negotiations would have so similar views!
Sure you're not missing an 'R' there!
Are you joking? This is American Republicans. Am I missing something?
Quote from: ludermor on February 02, 2010, 05:18:19 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-doubt-theory-evolution.aspx
Who would have thought that both sides in the Stormont negotiations would have so similar views!
Remember these are the people who think a government giving health care to the sick is treasonous. Religion is a badge to chest thump for some, it is certainly not something to live by.
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 02, 2010, 05:18:19 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-doubt-theory-evolution.aspx
Who would have thought that both sides in the Stormont negotiations would have so similar views!
Remember these are the people who think a government giving health care to the sick is treasonous. Religion is a badge to chest thump for some, it is certainly not something to live by.
Thats a load of shit to be fair. the proposed universal health care bill cannot be sustained by the tax paying public, the country cannot afford it and that is why people dont want it.
I have to laugh at the republican haters, they cry foul that republicians pander to the rich and middle classes and blame them for the current universal healthcare mess yet they just lost the safest senate seat because of their absolute refusal to acknowledge that it is not just republician voters that hate the thoughts of this bill, it is their own rank and file, their own members that dont want it in it's current state.
As for the comments on Religion, well, I do think faith is something good to live by.
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 02, 2010, 05:18:19 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-doubt-theory-evolution.aspx
Who would have thought that both sides in the Stormont negotiations would have so similar views!
Remember these are the people who think a government giving health care to the sick is treasonous. Religion is a badge to chest thump for some, it is certainly not something to live by.
You have missed the entire point of religion then. Takes some doing.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 02, 2010, 08:02:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 02, 2010, 05:18:19 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-doubt-theory-evolution.aspx
Who would have thought that both sides in the Stormont negotiations would have so similar views!
Remember these are the people who think a government giving health care to the sick is treasonous. Religion is a badge to chest thump for some, it is certainly not something to live by.
You have missed the entire point of religion then. Takes some doing.
Read it again.
I am pointing out the irony of these deeply religious people who can't afford to look after any sick people.
Come to think of it the anti-Darwin position of the ultimate 'survival of fittest' proponents is pretty ironic too.
It's like in Europtrip, when they say that America was founded by prudes. They head on a road trip to Europe to live in the land of their sexually promiscuous ancestors. Another reason why it's better to be from Europe. ;D
I thought this was Sinn Féin or Fianna Fáil.
Quote from: ziggysego on February 02, 2010, 09:28:54 PM
I thought this was Sinn Féin or Fianna Fáil.
That would be Theory of Revolution.
They are fairly nuts all right.
The 2010 Comprehensive Daily Kos/Research 2000 Poll of Self-Identified Republicans (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/2/2/832988/-The-2010-Comprehensive-Daily-Kos-Research-2000-Poll-of-Self-Identified-Republicans)
Do you believe Barack Obama was born in the United States, or not?
Yes 42
No 36
Not Sure 22
Do you believe Barack Obama wants the terrorists to win?
Yes 24
No 43
Not Sure 33
Do you believe ACORN stole the 2008 election?
Yes 21
No 24
Not Sure 55
Do you believe Barack Obama is a racist who hates White people?
Yes 31
No 36
Not Sure 33
Do you believe your state should secede from the United States?
Yes 23
No 58
Not Sure 19
Should gay couples receive any state or federal benefits?
Yes 11
No 68
Not Sure 21
Should openly gay men and women be allowed to teach in public schools?
Yes 8
No 73
Not Sure 19
Should sex education be taught in the public schools?
Yes 42
No 51
Not Sure 7
Should public school students be taught that the book of Genesis in the Bible explains how God created the world?
Yes 77
No 15
Not Sure 8
Should contraceptive use be outlawed?
Yes 31
No 56
Not Sure 13
Do you believe the birth control pill is abortion?
Yes 34
No 48
Not Sure 18
Quote from: ziggysego on February 02, 2010, 09:28:54 PM
I thought this was Sinn Féin or Fianna Fáil.
Fine Gael are Republicans too ;)
Quote from: dec on February 02, 2010, 09:41:55 PM
They are fairly nuts all right.
The 2010 Comprehensive Daily Kos/Research 2000 Poll of Self-Identified Republicans (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/2/2/832988/-The-2010-Comprehensive-Daily-Kos-Research-2000-Poll-of-Self-Identified-Republicans)
Do you believe Barack Obama was born in the United States, or not?
Yes 42
No 36
Not Sure 22
Do you believe Barack Obama wants the terrorists to win?
Yes 24
No 43
Not Sure 33
Do you believe ACORN stole the 2008 election?
Yes 21
No 24
Not Sure 55
Do you believe Barack Obama is a racist who hates White people?
Yes 31
No 36
Not Sure 33
Do you believe your state should secede from the United States?
Yes 23
No 58
Not Sure 19
Should gay couples receive any state or federal benefits?
Yes 11
No 68
Not Sure 21
Should openly gay men and women be allowed to teach in public schools?
Yes 8
No 73
Not Sure 19
Should sex education be taught in the public schools?
Yes 42
No 51
Not Sure 7
Should public school students be taught that the book of Genesis in the Bible explains how God created the world?
Yes 77
No 15
Not Sure 8
Should contraceptive use be outlawed?
Yes 31
No 56
Not Sure 13
Do you believe the birth control pill is abortion?
Yes 34
No 48
Not Sure 18
They sound just like Osama Bin Laden and his nutjobs. Its time Europe asserted ourselves, we surrounded by nut jobs in USA, the Middle East, China, North Korea, Russia, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Sudan, Somalia, Myanmar etc.
Quote from: Lawrence of Knockbride on February 02, 2010, 05:59:04 PM
Are you joking? This is American Republicans. Am I missing something?
[/quoteAh ]FFS!!!!
Only now Muppet?
Quote from: ludermor on February 02, 2010, 10:13:25 PM
Only now Muppet?
Well I thought Sam was too young to drive.
Should public school students be taught that the book of Genesis in the Bible explains how God created the world?
Yes 77
No 15
Not Sure 8
-----------------------------
Scopes 'monkey trial'. (or at least play based on it.)
William Jennings Bryan: 'The earth was created by God on October 23rd, 4004 BC at 9am'
Clarence Darrow: 'Would that be Eastern Standard Time'?
Quote from: tyssam5 on February 02, 2010, 10:18:43 PM
Should public school students be taught that the book of Genesis in the Bible explains how God created the world?
Yes 77
No 15
Not Sure 8
-----------------------------
Scopes 'monkey trial'. (or at least play based on it.)
William Jennings Bryan: 'The earth was created by God on October 23rd, 4004 BC at 9am'
Clarence Darrow: 'Would that be Eastern Standard Time'?
An Armagh man is to blame for that one.
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
I have to laugh at the republican haters, they cry foul that republicians pander to the rich and middle classes and blame them for the current universal healthcare mess yet they just lost the safest senate seat because of their absolute refusal to acknowledge that it is not just republician voters that hate the thoughts of this bill, it is their own rank and file, their own members that dont want it in it's current state.
Is there a poll to point this issue out as the reason they lost the seat? Any reports I've heard (haven't really been interested to be fair) have come from unreliable sources.
Quote from: Zapatista on February 02, 2010, 11:16:26 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
I have to laugh at the republican haters, they cry foul that republicians pander to the rich and middle classes and blame them for the current universal healthcare mess yet they just lost the safest senate seat because of their absolute refusal to acknowledge that it is not just republician voters that hate the thoughts of this bill, it is their own rank and file, their own members that dont want it in it's current state.
Is there a poll to point this issue out as the reason they lost the seat? Any reports I've heard (haven't really been interested to be fair) have come from unreliable sources.
Imagine a bye election being lost by those in power. ???
Never happens. Must mean Stew is right then.
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 11:18:18 PM
Imagine a bye election being lost by those in power. ???
Never happens. Must mean Stew is right then.
Atleast they had the balls to hold the election I suppose.
Quote from: Zapatista on February 02, 2010, 11:21:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 11:18:18 PM
Imagine a bye election being lost by those in power. ???
Never happens. Must mean Stew is right then.
Atleast they had the balls to hold the election I suppose.
They do like their elections.
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 11:18:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on February 02, 2010, 11:16:26 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
I have to laugh at the republican haters, they cry foul that republicians pander to the rich and middle classes and blame them for the current universal healthcare mess yet they just lost the safest senate seat because of their absolute refusal to acknowledge that it is not just republician voters that hate the thoughts of this bill, it is their own rank and file, their own members that dont want it in it's current state.
Is there a poll to point this issue out as the reason they lost the seat? Any reports I've heard (haven't really been interested to be fair) have come from unreliable sources.
Imagine a bye election being lost by those in power. ???
Never happens. Must mean Stew is right then.
Thats typical liberal bullshit is that.
Here is what happened. The democrats lost one of if not the safest democratic senate seat in America, you know the one muppet, the one were that no character sc**bag twat ted kenedy held fr what seemed like centuries. After teddy boy died they had to have an election, the democrats thought they could win it in a canter and in their arrogance they didnt even bother to check the pulse of the electorate and run straw polls. The republician candidate ran on an anti obamacare ticket, worked his arse off, got his message out and the good people of massachussetts agreed with him and voila, a republician senator takes the place of one ted kennedy.
I am right when I say the American people have lost their patience with Obama and his numbskull approach to healthcare, the economy and pretty much everything else he touches. I want him to do well but I have a feeling that the electorate will send him a message loud and clear come mid term election time.
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 11:18:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on February 02, 2010, 11:16:26 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
I have to laugh at the republican haters, they cry foul that republicians pander to the rich and middle classes and blame them for the current universal healthcare mess yet they just lost the safest senate seat because of their absolute refusal to acknowledge that it is not just republician voters that hate the thoughts of this bill, it is their own rank and file, their own members that dont want it in it's current state.
Is there a poll to point this issue out as the reason they lost the seat? Any reports I've heard (haven't really been interested to be fair) have come from unreliable sources.
Imagine a bye election being lost by those in power. ???
Never happens. Must mean Stew is right then.
Thats typical liberal bullshit is that.
Here is what happened. The democrats lost one of if not the safest democratic senate seat in America, you know the one muppet, the one were that no character sc**bag t**t ted kenedy held fr what seemed like centuries. After teddy boy died they had to have an election, the democrats thought they could win it in a canter and in their arrogance they didnt even bother to check the pulse of the electorate and run straw polls. The republician candidate ran on an anti obamacare ticket, worked his arse off, got his message out and the good people of massachussetts agreed with him and voila, a republician senator takes the place of one ted kennedy.
I am right when I say the American people have lost their patience with Obama and his numbskull approach to healthcare, the economy and pretty much everything else he touches. I want him to do well but I have a feeling that the electorate will send him a message loud and clear come mid term election time.
In 8 years George Dubya Bush and his cronies destroyed the world economy (amongst other things). But it is Obama's fault for not fixing it in 1 year. ::)
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 11:43:18 PM
the democrats thought they could win it in a canter and in their arrogance they didnt even bother to check the pulse of the electorate
worked his arse off, got his message out
So there may have been other factors?
Hardly a surprising poll result given the role of the religious right within the Republican party and the shocking level of scientific knowledge among Americans in general. But what do you expect when people are brought up to think that they'll go to hell if they don't accept Jesus and a literal interpretation of Genesis? When science educators are continuously fighting wave after wave of shape-shifting creationists trying to get their nonsense taught in school science classes (and its all about school kids - they don't give two fucks about the science itself, only that young Joe Bob and Nancy Sue might be in danger of coming to possess the knowledge to think for themselves and put two and two together). The fact that Ken Ham could raise almost 30 million to build a ludicrous museum of creationism, complete with dioramas depicting dinosaurs living happily side by side with Adam and Eve tells you all you need to know about the state of science awareness in America.
(http://travelblog.sojournchurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dino-jesus.jpg)
Quote from: AFS on February 03, 2010, 12:58:28 AM
(http://travelblog.sojournchurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dino-jesus.jpg)
That can't be real?!! :D
Edit: looking at those colours, it obviously a parody!
But a good one!;D
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 02, 2010, 05:18:19 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-doubt-theory-evolution.aspx
Who would have thought that both sides in the Stormont negotiations would have so similar views!
Remember these are the people who think a government giving health care to the sick is treasonous. Religion is a badge to chest thump for some, it is certainly not something to live by.
Thats a load of shit to be fair. the proposed universal health care bill cannot be sustained by the tax paying public, the country cannot afford it and that is why people dont want it.
Jaysus when Wall Street got sick, there was no shortage of billions thrown at it.
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 11:43:18 PM
Thats typical liberal bullshit is that.
Here is what happened. The democrats lost one of if not the safest democratic senate seat in America, you know the one muppet, The republician candidate ran on an anti obamacare ticket, worked his arse off, got his message out and the good people of massachussetts agreed with him and voila, a republician senator takes the place of one ted kennedy.
I am right when I say the American people have lost their patience with Obama and his numbskull approach to healthcare, the economy and pretty much everything else he touches. I want him to do well but I have a feeling that the electorate will send him a message loud and clear come mid term election time.
Jeez stew I don't even know where to start on this one...
when the supreme court just made that ruling on lobbying I thought it was bad news, right now I am seriously worried...
Quote from: Turlough O Carolan on February 03, 2010, 03:25:36 AM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 02, 2010, 05:18:19 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-doubt-theory-evolution.aspx
Who would have thought that both sides in the Stormont negotiations would have so similar views!
Remember these are the people who think a government giving health care to the sick is treasonous. Religion is a badge to chest thump for some, it is certainly not something to live by.
Thats a load of shit to be fair. the proposed universal health care bill cannot be sustained by the tax paying public, the country cannot afford it and that is why people dont want it.
Jaysus when Wall Street got sick, there was no shortage of billions thrown at it.
Not to mention the various wars.
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
Thats a load of shit to be fair. the proposed universal health care bill cannot be sustained by the tax paying public, the country cannot afford it and that is why people dont want it.
I guess they're all glad they're insured so.
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2010, 12:32:22 AM
Hardly a surprising poll result given the role of the religious right within the Republican party and the shocking level of scientific knowledge among Americans in general. But what do you expect when people are brought up to think that they'll go to hell if they don't accept Jesus and a literal interpretation of Genesis? When science educators are continuously fighting wave after wave of shape-shifting creationists trying to get their nonsense taught in school science classes (and its all about school kids - they don't give two f**ks about the science itself, only that young Joe Bob and Nancy Sue might be in danger of coming to possess the knowledge to think for themselves and put two and two together). The fact that Ken Ham could raise almost 30 million to build a ludicrous museum of creationism, complete with dioramas depicting dinosaurs living happily side by side with Adam and Eve tells you all you need to know about the state of science awareness in America.
Do you muppets actually believe that only republicians are religious people here in the states?
Whats wrong in believing in Jesus and who says that Darwin holds the keys to the human condition?
It is typical arrogance from athiests that religiously minded people cannot think for themselves, we can. Athiests and haters of christianity have been trying to undermine the Bible for years, it will never happen but hey, just because i dont give two shites about the cause of athiesm does not mean that I am going to ridicule those who believe in athiesm, I am not the one going to judge them.
Quote from: stew on February 03, 2010, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2010, 12:32:22 AM
Hardly a surprising poll result given the role of the religious right within the Republican party and the shocking level of scientific knowledge among Americans in general. But what do you expect when people are brought up to think that they'll go to hell if they don't accept Jesus and a literal interpretation of Genesis? When science educators are continuously fighting wave after wave of shape-shifting creationists trying to get their nonsense taught in school science classes (and its all about school kids - they don't give two f**ks about the science itself, only that young Joe Bob and Nancy Sue might be in danger of coming to possess the knowledge to think for themselves and put two and two together). The fact that Ken Ham could raise almost 30 million to build a ludicrous museum of creationism, complete with dioramas depicting dinosaurs living happily side by side with Adam and Eve tells you all you need to know about the state of science awareness in America.
Do you muppets actually believe that only republicians are religious people here in the states?
Whats wrong in believing in Jesus and who says that Darwin holds the keys to the human condition?
It is typical arrogance from athiests that religiously minded people cannot think for themselves, we can. Athiests and haters of christianity have been trying to undermine the Bible for years, it will never happen but hey, just because i dont give two shites about the cause of athiesm does not mean that I am going to ridicule those who believe in athiesm, I am not the one going to judge them.
Just to be clear does that include everyone that doesn't believe in creationism?
Quote from: stew on February 03, 2010, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2010, 12:32:22 AM
Hardly a surprising poll result given the role of the religious right within the Republican party and the shocking level of scientific knowledge among Americans in general. But what do you expect when people are brought up to think that they'll go to hell if they don't accept Jesus and a literal interpretation of Genesis? When science educators are continuously fighting wave after wave of shape-shifting creationists trying to get their nonsense taught in school science classes (and its all about school kids - they don't give two f**ks about the science itself, only that young Joe Bob and Nancy Sue might be in danger of coming to possess the knowledge to think for themselves and put two and two together). The fact that Ken Ham could raise almost 30 million to build a ludicrous museum of creationism, complete with dioramas depicting dinosaurs living happily side by side with Adam and Eve tells you all you need to know about the state of science awareness in America.
Do you muppets actually believe that only republicians are religious people here in the states?
Whats wrong in believing in Jesus and who says that Darwin holds the keys to the human condition?
It is typical arrogance from athiests that religiously minded people cannot think for themselves, we can. Athiests and haters of christianity have been trying to undermine the Bible for years, it will never happen but hey, just because i dont give two shites about the cause of athiesm does not mean that I am going to ridicule those who believe in athiesm, I am not the one going to judge them.
Stew, if you are going to call me names, at least discuss what I said, not what you imagined or wanted me to have said!
Nowhere did I even hint that only Republicans are religious (I doubt if anyone would make such a ridiculous statement!). Nowhere did I say that there was anything wrong with believing in Jesus or that Darwin "held the keys to the human condition".
What I did say was that the fact that almost ¾ doubted evolution was hardly surprising given the influence and dominance of the religious right in the Republican party and the appalling standard of scientific education and knowledge among Americans IN GENERAL! I then made the point that this statistic had little or nothing to do with actual science, but was almost purely a religious issue. I couldn't give two fucks if you personally reject evolution because you think it goes against Jesus and the Bible, as long as you are HONEST that it is religiously motivated and has nothing to do with science. If you want to adulate the bible, knock yourself out. But once you try to fraudulently put the Bible/Jesus/creationism forward as a legitimate and worthy alternative to science and evolution and attempt to sow illegitimate seeds of doubt in the minds of children it is a totally different matter. If the objections of creationists to evolution are intellectually honest and based on science and not a priori rejection of the subject because it conflicts with their religious views, then why the hell are they invariably found to be hopelessly ignorant of even the most basic principles of what evolutionary theory actually states? The creationist body of work is replete with strawmen, misrepresentation, quote mining and ludicrously half-baked ideas about the second law of thermodynamics, dust on the moon, tectonic plates speeding across the mantle, "hydrodynamic sorting" of fossils during Noah's flood and so on; stuff that sounds plausible to the scientifically ignorant, especially when supplemented with emotional appeals to the bible and religion. If these people aren't afraid to let their kids think for themselves, why all the deceit and need to poke bogus holes in science by "teaching the controversy"? At least religions like catholicism are honest and have reconciled their faith with science. And I have no problems with people like that on this issue. Some of them, like Kenneth Miller, are among the strongest and most outspoken opponents of creationism around!
Stew...they're only winding for a reaction, well outside of muppet anyway..the rest simply can't
be indicative of the intolerance and ignorance towards others that's back there :o...
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 04, 2010, 02:43:51 AM
the rest simply can't be indicative of the intolerance and ignorance towards others that's back there :o...
TO,
not sure that I get your point- sorry
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2010, 02:15:46 AM
If you want to adulate the bible, knock yourself out. But once you try to fraudulently put the Bible/Jesus/creationism forward as a legitimate and worthy alternative to science and evolution and attempt to sow illegitimate seeds of doubt in the minds of children it is a totally different matter. If the objections of creationists to evolution are intellectually honest and based on science and not a priori rejection of the subject because it conflicts with their religious views, then why the hell are they invariably found to be hopelessly ignorant of even the most basic principles of what evolutionary theory actually states? The creationist body of work is replete with strawmen, misrepresentation, quote mining and ludicrously half-baked ideas about the second law of thermodynamics, dust on the moon, tectonic plates speeding across the mantle, "hydrodynamic sorting" of fossils during Noah's flood and so on; stuff that sounds plausible to the scientifically ignorant, especially when supplemented with emotional appeals to the bible and religion. If these people aren't afraid to let their kids think for themselves, why all the deceit and need to poke bogus holes in science by "teaching the controversy"? At least religions like catholicism are honest and have reconciled their faith with science. And I have no problems with people like that on this issue. Some of them, like Kenneth Miller, are among the strongest and most outspoken opponents of creationism around!
That's as concise a statement as I've seen anywhere on the subject, Dawkins included. Well said.
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2010, 08:58:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2010, 02:15:46 AM
If you want to adulate the bible, knock yourself out. But once you try to fraudulently put the Bible/Jesus/creationism forward as a legitimate and worthy alternative to science and evolution and attempt to sow illegitimate seeds of doubt in the minds of children it is a totally different matter. If the objections of creationists to evolution are intellectually honest and based on science and not a priori rejection of the subject because it conflicts with their religious views, then why the hell are they invariably found to be hopelessly ignorant of even the most basic principles of what evolutionary theory actually states? The creationist body of work is replete with strawmen, misrepresentation, quote mining and ludicrously half-baked ideas about the second law of thermodynamics, dust on the moon, tectonic plates speeding across the mantle, "hydrodynamic sorting" of fossils during Noah's flood and so on; stuff that sounds plausible to the scientifically ignorant, especially when supplemented with emotional appeals to the bible and religion. If these people aren't afraid to let their kids think for themselves, why all the deceit and need to poke bogus holes in science by "teaching the controversy"? At least religions like catholicism are honest and have reconciled their faith with science. And I have no problems with people like that on this issue. Some of them, like Kenneth Miller, are among the strongest and most outspoken opponents of creationism around!
That's as concise a statement as I've seen anywhere on the subject, Dawkins included. Well said.
Well said J70.
Quote from: Billys Boots on February 04, 2010, 09:43:31 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2010, 08:58:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2010, 02:15:46 AM
If you want to adulate the bible, knock yourself out. But once you try to fraudulently put the Bible/Jesus/creationism forward as a legitimate and worthy alternative to science and evolution and attempt to sow illegitimate seeds of doubt in the minds of children it is a totally different matter. If the objections of creationists to evolution are intellectually honest and based on science and not a priori rejection of the subject because it conflicts with their religious views, then why the hell are they invariably found to be hopelessly ignorant of even the most basic principles of what evolutionary theory actually states? The creationist body of work is replete with strawmen, misrepresentation, quote mining and ludicrously half-baked ideas about the second law of thermodynamics, dust on the moon, tectonic plates speeding across the mantle, "hydrodynamic sorting" of fossils during Noah's flood and so on; stuff that sounds plausible to the scientifically ignorant, especially when supplemented with emotional appeals to the bible and religion. If these people aren't afraid to let their kids think for themselves, why all the deceit and need to poke bogus holes in science by "teaching the controversy"? At least religions like catholicism are honest and have reconciled their faith with science. And I have no problems with people like that on this issue. Some of them, like Kenneth Miller, are among the strongest and most outspoken opponents of creationism around!
That's as concise a statement as I've seen anywhere on the subject, Dawkins included. Well said.
Well said J70.
Succinctly put.