Widespread disruption is expected today as 250,000 State employees hold a one-day nationwide strike.
From prison officers, to nurses, from local authority workers to civil servants - the public service will essentially shut down for a day.
Public sector unions have said the Government has refused to engage with them on ways of cutting the State pay and pensions' bill by €1.3bn without hitting pay, pensions or services.
AdvertisementSpokesman for the trade union IMPACT Bernard Harbor said if the Government cuts pay again there will be more industrial action but said it is unlikely that there will be a second day of strikes on the day of the Budget.
A number of unions have deferred strike action in areas hit by the recent floods.
Public transport is also running as normal.
55,000 welfare payments due on Wednesday will be delayed. However St Vincent de Paul is advising those with a social services card to collect payments at their post office.
Emergency cover will be in place in essential health services, though strike exemptions granted to key areas including palliative and intensive care.
Once the strike is over, unions will return to talks with the Government on long-term restructuring the public service, and short-term measures to cut the State pay bill.
However, talks will be intense given there are just two weeks to the Budget.
Meanwhile, the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, which are forbidden by law to strike, have issued a message of support to unions and said it has instructed members not to make themselves available for overtime.
My own personal opinion is this stinks from high heaven. Molly coddled, overpaid public sector workers spitting their dummies out >:( get back to work and be thankful you have a handy job in the first place (sweeping statement I know but it does apply to 90% of public sector workers who earn damn good money, which is alot higher than their colleagues in the north, for the jobs they do)
Question is without media coverage would anyone even notice ::)
S'funny. Two lollipop ladies were on duty this morning in Blackrock even though there are no childer to shepherd across the road.
They will, no doubt, be there at 2.30 as well.
If anything signified to me the stupidity of this day of dispute it was this.
Should they not have been on strike?
What do people with real jobs do when their children can't go to school due to a strike?
Bacon
I am sure they are non unionised contract workers with the local authority. If they don't turn up they won't get paid.
We have the Mrs' mam with us at the moment so that worked out for us. Otherwise one of us (we are both self employed) would have had to miss the best part of a day's work. Costing us money.
I seen pickets on one of the local schools. Apparently thats not part of strike policy so I enquired why.
Its due to one or more teachers not striking and they are in school as normal. The unions have instructed that if this is the case that the school or office should be directly picketed.
The sheep don't like revolution turned on themselves, apparently.
I was stopped at traffic lights driving through Ballyfermot this morning, there were a load of women picketing outside some college they have there, anyway one of them shouts across at me to beep me bleedin horn for the strike! I shouted at her to go back to bleedin work
Quote from: bingobus on November 24, 2009, 10:10:08 AM
I seen pickets on one of the local schools. Apparently thats not part of strike policy so I enquired why.
Its due to one or more teachers not striking and they are in school as normal. The unions have instructed that if this is the case that the school or office should be directly picketed.
Its alright, they've all gone inside now :D
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on November 24, 2009, 10:28:09 AM
I was stopped at traffic lights driving through Ballyfermot this morning, there were a load of women picketing outside some college they have there, anyway one of them shouts across at me to beep me bleedin horn for the strike! I shouted at her to go back to bleedin work
;D Classic stuff LL - fair play
There's people doing shifts of strikes in the office block I'm in. What is the story with that? Surely you're either on strike or working?
Also heard there's big queues into Newry today, don't know how much truth there is in that but doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Quote from: AN other on November 24, 2009, 01:18:29 PM
There's people doing shifts of strikes in the office block I'm in. What is the story with that? Surely you're either on strike or working?
Also heard there's big queues into Newry today, don't know how much truth there is in that but doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
a friend of mine works in a school and they only have to strike for 15mins in a rotation basis upto 10am - i asked what the reason for this was and apparently they got verbally abused (some Pat Kenny style looper went off on them about how they are a disgrace and over paid) the last time they striked so they decided that they will not spend the day there....she is currently in Dundrum Shopping centre doing her christmas shopping at the moment....
Quote from: Tankie on November 24, 2009, 01:55:44 PM
Quote from: AN other on November 24, 2009, 01:18:29 PM
There's people doing shifts of strikes in the office block I'm in. What is the story with that? Surely you're either on strike or working?
Also heard there's big queues into Newry today, don't know how much truth there is in that but doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
a friend of mine works in a school and they only have to strike for 15mins in a rotation basis upto 10am - i asked what the reason for this was and apparently they got verbally abused (some Pat Kenny style looper went off on them about how they are a disgrace and over paid) the last time they striked so they decided that they will not spend the day there....she is currently in Dundrum Shopping centre doing her christmas shopping at the moment....
Was also talking to a teacher on facebook and he said they were only picketing in 15min slots till 10am, this was in Monaghan. He said that most of the talk this last few days was Newry, Belfast, Enniskillen etc and the shopping that was to be done. He's not in Union but was told the school wouldn't be open for him or any others.
I know 2 people who have been on the picket since 10am this morning
Manager in the Buttercrain saying they are seeing Saturday levels of southern shoppers today.
National day of shopping. What a farce.
I hope they get stuck for longer on the way back.
Can some of us mount a protest road block just on the Northern side of the border to eff up their jouney home. I am sure the Peelers wouldn't move us - do they ever travel that close to Louth?
The Revolution is just a t-shirt away.
QuoteNational day of shopping. What a farce.
;D
I have been watching the Town Council offices which are straight across the road from me, there were 8-10 picketers there earlier on none of whom are locals (well I've never seen any of em anyway). About 11.30 or so they disappeared but their placards etc are still stacked against the wall, anyway 10 mins or so ago one of the girls who works there sauntered up the street and put a key in the door and went in.
Kinda defeats the purpose of picketing if u ask me
Quote from: TheGreatRambo on November 24, 2009, 02:27:02 PM
I have been watching the Town Council offices which are straight across the road from me, there were 8-10 picketers there earlier on none of whom are locals (well I've never seen any of em anyway). About 11.30 or so they disappeared but their placards etc are still stacked against the wall, anyway 10 mins or so ago one of the girls who works there sauntered up the street and put a key in the door and went in.
Kinda defeats the purpose of picketing if u ask me
How many civil servants does it take to organise an picket? ;) ;D
Another day planned for 3rd December? They must be running out of Turkeys up North.
Quote from: AN other on November 24, 2009, 02:41:31 PM
Another day planned for 3rd December? They must be running out of Turkeys up North.
great news, will all they time these lads are taking off + a 12% cut in salary we will be back in the black in no time at all
A day of action alright. Shopping action. In Newry.
The dash to the shops, doesn't really give the impression of thousands of angry and downtrodden workers!
So teachers are not payed enough.
So they strike/have a day off.
Which they use to go shopping across the border and spend money.
The irony is here is killing me.
Its def true, there 4-5 mile tail backs heading into Newry, i got caught in it, and a huge majority of them are southern cars,
a good days shopping out of the strike
I would love if RTE news has cameras in the car park in Newry and runs a show tonight with random shots of the strikers getting in and out of their cars.
They really have no shame.
Shamelessly robbed off another thread, but I couldn't just leave it there.......
What do we want?
Stuff for the house!
When do we want it?
Now!
Now why would a load of people from the 26 Counties be shoppin in Newry I wonder?
And could the Shopkeepers of the 26 Counties ask themselves the same Question?
Heard someone on Joe Whinge yesterday telling a tale about Insulation Rolls costing £6 in B&Q in Newry while in a Dublin B&Q they were €21 .
Traffic in and around Newry has been crazy since before 9 this morning mostly coming from the south!!! National day of shopping is right!!!!
In 3 years working in and around Dublin Airport, the amount of taxis out there queueing up for fares today has to be seen to be believed. I asked a taxi driver where were all the extra cars from, he told me teachers and firemen were the majority as they were off today. He was like an anti-christ, he was in the queue for 3 hours at that stage and there was at least 100 cars in front of him. i wonder will the taxi unions have anything to say about this later. Talk about a PR disaster for the public unions. The government must be delighted at this, also, as someone mentioned earlier, the irony of public sector workers spending their money in the North. This is a great little country.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 24, 2009, 04:12:36 PM
In 3 years working in and around Dublin Airport, the amount of taxis out there queueing up for fares today has to be seen to be believed. I asked a taxi driver where were all the extra cars from, he told me teachers and firemen were the majority as they were off today. He was like an anti-christ, he was in the queue for 3 hours at that stage and there was at least 100 cars in front of him. i wonder will the taxi unions have anything to say about this later. Talk about a PR disaster for the public unions. The government must be delighted at this, also, as someone mentioned earlier, the irony of public sector workers spending their money in the North. This is a great little country.
The strike was predictable but the apathy from the various union members is a big surprise.
Is the ICTU tail wagging the public service dog?
They should do this more often, the economy will have taken a shot in the arm with all the shopping while the State will have saved a fortune in pay.
More shopping next week on the 3rd
It gets better, i had to take the morning off to go to a funeral in Monaghan and whilst on me way back up the M1 about 3 miles South of the Ardee exit i seen a car 2 women, 1 fella fixing a puncture, boot full of drink and toys and the pair of dolls standing watching yer man with ICTU umberellas in hand, :o :o wish i had stopped and took a photo, only had to get back to me job
Quote from: The Subbie on November 24, 2009, 04:42:10 PM
It gets better, i had to take the morning off to go to a funeral in Monaghan and whilst on me way back up the M1 about 3 miles South of the Ardee exit i seen a car 2 women, 1 fella fixing a puncture, boot full of drink and toys and the pair of dolls standing watching yer man with ICTU umberellas in hand, :o :o wish i had stopped and took a photo, only had to get back to me job
Must have been supplies for the troops on the picket line ;) ;D
Irish
Christmas
Trading
Union
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2009, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 24, 2009, 04:12:36 PM
In 3 years working in and around Dublin Airport, the amount of taxis out there queueing up for fares today has to be seen to be believed. I asked a taxi driver where were all the extra cars from, he told me teachers and firemen were the majority as they were off today. He was like an anti-christ, he was in the queue for 3 hours at that stage and there was at least 100 cars in front of him. i wonder will the taxi unions have anything to say about this later. Talk about a PR disaster for the public unions. The government must be delighted at this, also, as someone mentioned earlier, the irony of public sector workers spending their money in the North. This is a great little country.
The strike was predictable but the apathy from the various union members is a big surprise.
Is the ICTU tail wagging the public service dog?
They should do this more often, the economy will have taken a shot in the arm with all the shopping while the State will have saved a fortune in pay.
Do you really think that muppet?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 24, 2009, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2009, 04:17:24 PM
The strike was predictable but the apathy from the various union members is a big surprise.
Is the ICTU tail wagging the public service dog?
They should do this more often, the economy will have taken a shot in the arm with all the shopping while the State will have saved a fortune in pay.
Do you really think that muppet?
Most public sectors workers I've been talking to in the last couple of days were dreading the thoughts of spending hours on the pickets.
A small handful of militant union heads were keeping the heat on them to be out on the picket though.
Taxi driver on Joe Guffy earlier talking about Coppers and a few other clubs and pubs in Dublin being flat out last night. He said it was like Christmas Eve....he even said that he overheard a few punters in the back of his cab saying that they hoped that the strike would be on a different day next time as Monday night wasnt the best night to be going out!!
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 24, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Taxi driver on Joe Guffy earlier talking about Coppers and a few other clubs and pubs in Dublin being flat out last night. He said it was like Christmas Eve....he even said that he overheard a few punters in the back of his cab saying that they hoped that the strike would be on a different day next time as Monday night wasnt the best night to be going out!!
I know this is going to probably get up everyone's noses, but my teaching friends were going daft in Coppers last night. I can see where the private sector anger is coming from, but the private sector were laughing at anyone who took a public sector job a couple of years ago.
Not sure why it would get up peoples noses, i doubt many would be surprised.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 24, 2009, 04:12:36 PM
In 3 years working in and around Dublin Airport, the amount of taxis out there queueing up for fares today has to be seen to be believed. I asked a taxi driver where were all the extra cars from, he told me teachers and firemen were the majority as they were off today. He was like an anti-christ, he was in the queue for 3 hours at that stage and there was at least 100 cars in front of him. i wonder will the taxi unions have anything to say about this later. Talk about a PR disaster for the public unions. The government must be delighted at this, also, as someone mentioned earlier, the irony of public sector workers spending their money in the North. This is a great little country.
Not just the irony of bringing money across the border to line the pockets of other governments.
Its the irony of people complaining about low/improper wages but yet they have the money to fill the car with diesel cross the border and play a game of "how many bottles of spirits can you fit in a '05 passat?".
If it wasnt so targic it would be comical.
It must be wild hard for shop workers in Dublin, Drogheda and Dundalk watching these people driving past and putting them out of work. I'd say it makes it all the harder to take when they know that the shop workers taxes help pay the public service pay bill.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 24, 2009, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2009, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 24, 2009, 04:12:36 PM
In 3 years working in and around Dublin Airport, the amount of taxis out there queueing up for fares today has to be seen to be believed. I asked a taxi driver where were all the extra cars from, he told me teachers and firemen were the majority as they were off today. He was like an anti-christ, he was in the queue for 3 hours at that stage and there was at least 100 cars in front of him. i wonder will the taxi unions have anything to say about this later. Talk about a PR disaster for the public unions. The government must be delighted at this, also, as someone mentioned earlier, the irony of public sector workers spending their money in the North. This is a great little country.
The strike was predictable but the apathy from the various union members is a big surprise.
Is the ICTU tail wagging the public service dog?
They should do this more often, the economy will have taken a shot in the arm with all the shopping while the State will have saved a fortune in pay.
Do you really think that muppet?
Yea, either you roll over and accept the cuts or you fight to limit the damage. To call a strike and then send a message that you don't care is the worst possible scenario. The public sector will be filleted now.
Its funny a few teachers I know all say they didn't want to strike etc. How did the vote so largely in favour of it though?
Also know a Garda who is all for it and was marching last week in Dublin. I was in shock when he told me his gross salary last year and before his allowances as well. It was criminal in fact.
Quote from: bingobus on November 24, 2009, 05:35:07 PM
Its funny a few teachers I know all say they didn't want to strike etc. How did the vote so largely in favour of it though?
Also know a Garda who is all for it and was marching last week in Dublin. I was in shock when he told me his gross salary last year and before his allowances as well. It was criminal in fact.
Can you give a figure?
Quote from: Gnevin on November 24, 2009, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: bingobus on November 24, 2009, 05:35:07 PM
Its funny a few teachers I know all say they didn't want to strike etc. How did the vote so largely in favour of it though?
Also know a Garda who is all for it and was marching last week in Dublin. I was in shock when he told me his gross salary last year and before his allowances as well. It was criminal in fact.
Can you give a figure?
Can't say, I was doing some work for him and thats why he told me.
I think this is all brilliant. Hope it goes for a 3 dayer next time.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 24, 2009, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 24, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Taxi driver on Joe Guffy earlier talking about Coppers and a few other clubs and pubs in Dublin being flat out last night. He said it was like Christmas Eve....he even said that he overheard a few punters in the back of his cab saying that they hoped that the strike would be on a different day next time as Monday night wasnt the best night to be going out!!
I know this is going to probably get up everyone's noses, but my teaching friends were going daft in Coppers last night. I can see where the private sector anger is coming from, but the private sector were laughing at anyone who took a public sector job a couple of years ago.
Really? i worked in a semi-state company for a year and had to leave as i couldnt deal with the fact hard work is not rewarded and to get a propmotion it had more to do with who you knew and nothing to do with the work you put in....so now the place has thousands of lazy overpaid people...
Quote from: Zapatista on November 24, 2009, 06:23:24 PM
I think this is all brilliant. Hope it goes for a 3 dayer next time.
Why is it brilliant?
I just heard on the news there now how the Council workers in Athlone refused a plea ignore the strike to help locals facing severe flooding.
How could you ever look your neighbour in the eye after doing that?
If they stay out till the new year we'd have the 1.3 billion savings thats been suggested. Then we could sack the lot of them and recruit people who cared about the country and pay them a performance related wage. Back on our feet come paddys day.
Quote from: no mo do yakamo on November 24, 2009, 06:40:48 PM
If they stay out till the new year we'd have the 1.3 billion savings thats been suggested. Then we could sack the lot of them and recruit people who cared about the country and pay them a performance related wage. Back on our feet come paddys day.
i second this plan...leave them out, cut the salary and we are sorted.....but lets be honest these lads are looking at a 3% cut as this government dont have the balls for it.
Theyre going have to grow a set then. I aint paying a penny more in taxes. Fact. Cant and wont. If they dont deal with this problem swiftly and efficiently i will use every means at my disposal to be not part of funding it.
Quote from: Tankie on November 24, 2009, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: no mo do yakamo on November 24, 2009, 06:40:48 PM
If they stay out till the new year we'd have the 1.3 billion savings thats been suggested. Then we could sack the lot of them and recruit people who cared about the country and pay them a performance related wage. Back on our feet come paddys day.
i second this plan...leave them out, cut the salary and we are sorted.....but lets be honest these lads are looking at a 3% cut as this government dont have the balls for it.
Great plan ::)
Where are you going to find people who
actually care about the country? Do you mean people like yourselves, is it?
Think I see from your earlier post why you hate the public sector so much too now tankie - from the sound of it you couldnt cut it in it :D
I heard earlier about a picket on Harold's Cross Hospice. Have they taken leave of their senses?
This "National Day of Shopping in Newry" has been an own goal for ICTU.
What control has ICTU over what individuals who may or may not be members of one of their Unions do?
Any Union members would have done their picket roster and then they were free agents for the day.If they want to spend half a wet day sitting in a traffic jam ....let them at it.
By the way the I in ICTU stands for Irish .... as in Ireland the Country in which Newry is situated. ;)
Obviously the non emergency staff in the hospice referred to were taking part in the strike and picketed their place of work.
Quote from: no mo do yakamo on November 24, 2009, 06:52:38 PM
Theyre going have to grow a set then. I aint paying a penny more in taxes. Fact. Cant and wont. If they dont deal with this problem swiftly and efficiently i will use every means at my disposal to be not part of funding it.
I for one would have no problem paying more taxes if I though it would help but the most economist have said increasing taxes will futher damage the economy and most liike would not increase the tax take. They levy certainly didn't increase the tax take.
Quotemost economist have said increasing taxes will futher damage the economy
Most economists also said the celtic tiger would last and we'd have a soft landing
Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2009, 07:21:03 PM
What control has ICTU over what individuals who may or may not be members of one of their Unions do?
Any Union members would have done their picket roster and then they were free agents for the day.If they want to spend half a wet day sitting in a traffic jam ....let them at it.
By the way the I in ICTU stands for Irish .... as in Ireland the Country in which Newry is situated. ;)
Obviously the non emergency staff in the hospice referred to were taking part in the strike and picketed their place of work.
And the U stands for the United Kingdom the country the VAT will go to ?
Quote from: Bacon on November 24, 2009, 06:39:56 PM
Why is it brilliant?
I just heard on the news there now how the Council workers in Athlone refused a plea ignore the strike to help locals facing severe flooding.
I'm a keen observer.
I don't know about Athlone in particular but I know that all the the Strikers ignored pleas not to strike.
Quote from: Bacon on November 24, 2009, 06:39:56 PMHow could you ever look your neighbour in the eye after doing that?
Need more details.
Quote from: haranguerer on November 24, 2009, 07:01:14 PM
Quote from: Tankie on November 24, 2009, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: no mo do yakamo on November 24, 2009, 06:40:48 PM
If they stay out till the new year we'd have the 1.3 billion savings thats been suggested. Then we could sack the lot of them and recruit people who cared about the country and pay them a performance related wage. Back on our feet come paddys day.
i second this plan...leave them out, cut the salary and we are sorted.....but lets be honest these lads are looking at a 3% cut as this government dont have the balls for it.
Great plan ::)
Where are you going to find people who actually care about the country? Do you mean people like yourselves, is it?
Think I see from your earlier post why you hate the public sector so much too now tankie - from the sound of it you couldnt cut it in it :D
And your plan???
Quote from: Gnevin on November 24, 2009, 07:39:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2009, 07:21:03 PM
What control has ICTU over what individuals who may or may not be members of one of their Unions do?
Any Union members would have done their picket roster and then they were free agents for the day.If they want to spend half a wet day sitting in a traffic jam ....let them at it.
By the way the I in ICTU stands for Irish .... as in Ireland the Country in which Newry is situated. ;)
Obviously the non emergency staff in the hospice referred to were taking part in the strike and picketed their place of work.
And the U stands for the United Kingdom the country the VAT will go to ?
Actually it stands for UNIONS but sure why let the facts get in the way. ;)
"Going forward" as they (IBEC/ISME/Politicians etc) ..if the public servants pay is cut(as is likely)which of course will inevitably lead to more private sector job losses and wage cuts ..then more people will be going North to avail of the cheaper prices aand make their reduced incomes stretch a little further.
By the way why do dental services cost 60% less in the 6 Cos than in the 26?
Quote from: Rossfan link=topic=14621.msg689945#msg689945
Actually it stands for UNIONS but sure why let the facts get in the way. ;)
"Going forward" as they (IBEC/ISME/Politicians etc) ..if the public servants pay is cut(as is likely)which of course will inevitably lead to more private sector job losses and wage cuts ..then more people will be going North to avail of the cheaper prices aand make their reduced incomes stretch a little further.
By the way why do dental services cost 60% less in the 6 Cos than in the 26?
I thought that was great :D :D
More pressure on the Government and it wasn't even intentional :D Bonus!!
The Unions must be delighted.
Quote from: Gnevin on November 24, 2009, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: bingobus on November 24, 2009, 05:35:07 PM
Its funny a few teachers I know all say they didn't want to strike etc. How did the vote so largely in favour of it though?
Also know a Garda who is all for it and was marching last week in Dublin. I was in shock when he told me his gross salary last year and before his allowances as well. It was criminal in fact.
Can you give a figure?
79% of INTO members voted to strike.
Quote from: bingobus on November 24, 2009, 05:48:11 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 24, 2009, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: bingobus on November 24, 2009, 05:35:07 PM
Its funny a few teachers I know all say they didn't want to strike etc. How did the vote so largely in favour of it though?
Also know a Garda who is all for it and was marching last week in Dublin. I was in shock when he told me his gross salary last year and before his allowances as well. It was criminal in fact.
Can you give a figure?
Can't say, I was doing some work for him and thats why he told me.
A good frind of mine is a sergeant in a specialist dept. in the guards. Basic 55k, last year including all allowances and OT 87k plus the free use of the "company" car seven days a week. No BIK to be paid on it. Also a teacher i know recently retired following 40 years service, she gets close on 3k a month pension, fair enough, but she also got a lump sum of 110k plus. In fairness they are unsustainable figures. Also i noticed the figure of 250000 people on strike today, say add in 50000 who worked. That is 300,000 public sector workers for a population of 4 million!!! How does the likes of Manchester, Birmingham manage? Do they have the same levels of public sector workers or do they actually a 40 hour week,every week, regardless of night shift etc? Just wondering........
Union chief concedes that €1.3bn payroll cut is needed
By Anne-Marie Walsh Industry Correspondent
Wednesday November 25 2009
THE most senior public sector union negotiator last night admitted for the first time it is "necessary" to find ways to cut €1.3bn from the State payroll.
Peter McLoone ruled out any permanent or temporary pay cuts but it is understood that he will present the Government with cuts by another name.
Speaking as 250,000 workers effectively closed down the entire public service for 24 hours yesterday, he said it would be "necessary" to agree "temporary measures" to cut the payroll next year.
He admitted reforms would not be enough to give the savings that are needed before 2011.
Sources revealed that one of the alternatives he may examine at talks with the Government, which re-start today, will be compulsory unpaid leave.
A proposal that could see public servants take 12 days off per year, amounting to roughly two weeks' gross salary, could make up the bulk of the savings.
The amount of days taken may be based on a worker's total earnings, meaning that higher-paid workers would take most of the leave.
But senior sources last night said this measure was unlikely to apply to frontline workers or areas where there are staff shortages, like speech therapy.
It is understood that the Government's plans to extend the working week across the public sector, particularly from 8am to 8pm in the health sector, thereby scrapping overtime rates, would not be enough to get the savings on its own.
Talks
Despite agreeing to go back to talks, The Irish Congress of Trade Unions' Public Services Committee yesterday set a date next Thursday week for another national strike.
But Committee chairman Mr McLoone appeared set to strike a deal that would be rubberstamped by the unions. The union leader appeared determined to avoid the eventually that the Finance Minister would impose another cut to basic pay of 6.5pc, just months after the pension levy took a similar amount from wages.
"I believe it is possible to agree an alternative that will achieve the savings the Government requires," he said.
The possibility of another strike is throwing up difficulties for two public sector unions.
The Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants and the Irish Federation of University Teachers have only balloted for a one-day strike. They do not have a mandate for a second strike -- and do not have time to ballot and serve the required seven day's legal notice
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/union-chief-concedes-that-836413bn-payroll-cut-is-needed-1952759.html
QuoteThat is 300,000 public sector workers for a population of 4 million!!!
The 26 counties does not have an especially high number of public servants, by comparison to other places. There is a real question about whether they are efficiently organised and like other people here they are somewhat overpaid in some cases, but there aren't all that many of them. With a million in education it takes a lot of people to give them a reasonable service, even though staff student ratios are about the worst in Western Europe. Likewise a lot of people are in health.
Apparently every town in country had a shopping bonanza yesterday. Glad the PS enjoyed their holiday.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 24, 2009, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 24, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Taxi driver on Joe Guffy earlier talking about Coppers and a few other clubs and pubs in Dublin being flat out last night. He said it was like Christmas Eve....he even said that he overheard a few punters in the back of his cab saying that they hoped that the strike would be on a different day next time as Monday night wasnt the best night to be going out!!
I know this is going to probably get up everyone's noses, but my teaching friends were going daft in Coppers last night. I can see where the private sector anger is coming from, but the private sector were laughing at anyone who took a public sector job a couple of years ago.
Let me spell this out for you "BULLSHIT".
a while ago on a sun holiday i met a guard who told me he recieved 68k in overtime in 12 months- this on top of his basic salary.
at the time i was earning around the 35k mark after 3 years of work since qualifing- working around a 50 hour week.
my jaw dropped- i just thought to myself this madness will not and cannot last.
have done a good bit of travelling in the last 18months- i have yet to see a more expensive country than us.
its a shame- we really have been ruined.
i blame the politicans- the biggest shower of greedy self serving bast**ds i have ever seen- not a strong person of morals amongst them.
it sickens me to read some the expenditure on "entitled expenses" and wastage that has been occuring at taxpayers cost and i was struck by what kind of greedy person could justify these costs. To see what some expenses were, and to think these people thought they were entitled to them. OUR money. have they not the slightest bit of conscience?
a fish rots from the head down.
I think this "strike" is pathetic myself, however, this is slightly off the point but did you hear about the Jimmy Choo shoes being sold by H&M, €56 in UK, €86 in Europe and well over €100 in Ireland ??? You go into any Next store and peel back the €40 euro label for a shirt and see £18... big wages transfers into high prices, its a shocking pandemic which reverts into a real mess
Really some people don't realise how lucky they are...
EP Mooney and Budget Travel gone...
http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1125/epmooney.html
(http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1125/epmooney.html)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1125/budgettravel.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1125/budgettravel.html)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 25, 2009, 05:29:10 PM
Really some people don't realise how lucky they are...
EP Mooney and Budget Travel gone...
http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1125/epmooney.html
(http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1125/epmooney.html)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1125/budgettravel.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1125/budgettravel.html)
Yeah but all these private sector employees made millions and thousands during the boom years. The poor public sector workers remained on the breadline as their friends bought second homes, a fleet of cars, villas and loads of bling bling ::)
Quote from: sammymaguire on November 25, 2009, 11:31:56 AM
I think this "strike" is pathetic myself, however, this is slightly off the point but did you hear about the Jimmy Choo shoes being sold by H&M, €56 in UK, €86 in Europe and well over €100 in Ireland ??? You go into any Next store and peel back the €40 euro label for a shirt and see £18... big wages transfers into high prices, its a shocking pandemic which reverts into a real mess
Yes but lowering wages alone leaves the problem that lots of people wont be able to meet their very high mortgages.
If the burden of high mortgages caused by the property boom (which in hindsight was clearly Government policy) can be reduced then wages could be lowered. This would improve our competitiveness and we might see a recovery.
The problem is the Government only relieved the banks of the burden of the debt and did nothing for the citizens. Lowering wages now means more mortgage defaults which brings more problems for the banks which we will have to bail out again thanks to the bank guarantee.
Quote from: Bacon on November 24, 2009, 06:39:56 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 24, 2009, 06:23:24 PM
I think this is all brilliant. Hope it goes for a 3 dayer next time.
Why is it brilliant?
I just heard on the news there now how the Council workers in Athlone refused a plea ignore the strike to help locals facing severe flooding.
How could you ever look your neighbour in the eye after doing that?
Eh you are on strike, to go and help would make you a scab in the eyes of the union and your colleagues, that said I would have helped them but refused to get paid for doing so, that way you salve your conscience and also keeps you in the good graces with the locals.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 25, 2009, 09:53:50 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 24, 2009, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 24, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Taxi driver on Joe Guffy earlier talking about Coppers and a few other clubs and pubs in Dublin being flat out last night. He said it was like Christmas Eve....he even said that he overheard a few punters in the back of his cab saying that they hoped that the strike would be on a different day next time as Monday night wasnt the best night to be going out!!
I know this is going to probably get up everyone's noses, but my teaching friends were going daft in Coppers last night. I can see where the private sector anger is coming from, but the private sector were laughing at anyone who took a public sector job a couple of years ago.
Let me spell this out for you "BULLSHIT".
You're some rude C*** of a B***** you *******.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 25, 2009, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 25, 2009, 09:53:50 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 24, 2009, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 24, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Taxi driver on Joe Guffy earlier talking about Coppers and a few other clubs and pubs in Dublin being flat out last night. He said it was like Christmas Eve....he even said that he overheard a few punters in the back of his cab saying that they hoped that the strike would be on a different day next time as Monday night wasnt the best night to be going out!!
I know this is going to probably get up everyone's noses, but my teaching friends were going daft in Coppers last night. I can see where the private sector anger is coming from, but the private sector were laughing at anyone who took a public sector job a couple of years ago.
Let me spell this out for you "BULLSHIT".
You're some rude C*** of a B***** you *******.
Perhaps, but at least i'm not from Roscommon.
The point is that this is a total bullshit lie. There is no evidence to support it except if you are talking about the real big wigs. I stated on these pages before that I worked in a factory once where
everyone was on a list to join the civil service cos they would double their wages. They all got sequential numbers, some of them were listed above 10,000. This lie has been spouted here before, I have asked for proof to back up the assertion that the PS was ever making less than the private sector in recent times and surprise surprise I get no reply.
Sorry there myles, I meant those who were working in the building private sector. They wouldn't touch a public sector job a couple of years ago and they had wages as high (higher) as the public sector back then.
However, the Unions did push for too much and they got their wishes and won't accept a pay cut when everyone wants them to. Now they are redundant and it has a domino effect on the rest of the private sector with others losing jobs. The public sector (who had security and still do, most of them) are blamed for all the ills of the country and are made look bad.
The only ones who are laughing are the government as they don't seem to be taking much blame for anything IMHO.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 25, 2009, 08:49:41 PM
The public sector (who had security and still do, most of them) are blamed for all the ills of the country and are made look bad.
Is this true? I mean not one is blaming the public sector for getting us into this mess. However the facts of the matter is 1.3 bl
needs must be saved from the public sector wage bill and the options are wages cuts or jobs. Is there an option C. The private sector has taken these hits over the past 2 years.
Do you think the IMF will be any fairer?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 25, 2009, 07:33:03 PM
Let me spell this out for you "BULLSHIT".
You're some rude C*** of a B***** you *******.
[/quote]
Perhaps, but at least i'm not from Roscommon.
The point is that this is a total bullshit lie. There is no evidence to support it except if you are talking about the real big wigs. I stated on these pages before that I worked in a factory once where
everyone was on a list to join the civil service cos they would double their wages. They all got sequential numbers, some of them were listed above 10,000. This lie has been spouted here before, I have asked for proof to back up the assertion that the PS was ever making less than the private sector in recent times and surprise surprise I get no reply.
[/quote]
Well I know two people who thought I was daft to apply for a public job in 2007.
One is now on the dole and the other has gone to Oz or NZ.
My proposal would be to bring in a MAXIMUM wage of €100000/annum for government officials. The rest of the country should be forced to live with less than this. And bring down the cost of living to suit people's needs (if that could be done) :-\.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 25, 2009, 10:03:57 PM
My proposal would be to bring in a MAXIMUM wage of €100000/annum for government officials. The rest of the country should be forced to live with less than this. And bring down the cost of living to suit people's needs (if that could be done) :-\.
Every multinational and anyone of talent would be gone in the morning.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 25, 2009, 09:39:56 PM
Well I know two people who thought I was daft to apply for a public job in 2007.
One is now on the dole and the other has gone to Oz or NZ.
Yes but do you know anyone who laughed at you which was the original point made? There's an image being protrayed of people joining the PS having to walk through a gauntlet of private sector millionaires all lined up in their Range Rover Sports laughing and jeering at them. A PS job was a good one when I entered the labour market in 96 and it's still a good one.
The government have played an absolute blinder in turning it into a public versus private debate.
I'm non-union public sector and didn't agree with the strike but didn't pass the picket. If it escalates it's going to get very messy - I can't afford to be losing pay over something I don't even agree with, but it's a rotten thing to have to walk in past colleagues.
The biggest problem in the sector was the policy of closed promotions over the years meant SOME people are in very well paid jobs that they aren't properly qualified for and would never have got in open competition. Wage cuts might relieve some of the immediate pressure but that's a far bigger problem that needs to be addressed in the longer term.
Just a small point on the shopping queues - I'd say a large portion of shoppers were parents forced into taking the day off to stay with school going children.
And yes friends of mine were shocked when I went into the public sector 4 years ago because the wages were so low (half what I'd had in my previous job), but I needed a job and was limited by location etc.
Quote from: Treasurer on November 25, 2009, 11:11:06 PM
The government have played an absolute blinder in turning it into a public versus private debate.
I'm non-union public sector and didn't agree with the strike but didn't pass the picket. If it escalates it's going to get very messy - I can't afford to be losing pay over something I don't even agree with, but it's a rotten thing to have to walk in past colleagues.
The biggest problem in the sector was the policy of closed promotions over the years meant SOME people are in very well paid jobs that they aren't properly qualified for and would never have got in open competition. Wage cuts might relieve some of the immediate pressure but that's a far bigger problem that needs to be addressed in the longer term.
Just a small point on the shopping queues - I'd say a large portion of shoppers were parents forced into taking the day off to stay with school going children.
And yes friends of mine were shocked when I went into the public sector 4 years ago because the wages were so low (half what I'd had in my previous job), but I needed a job and was limited by location etc.
Rubbish. The unions played this on thier own. Firstly because I think the government are too incompetent to play it as well as it working out and secondly no-one would take their side if they waded in.
As napoleon said "dont interupt your enemy whilst their making a mistake". The government need to cut 1.3 billion. The unions tried to get their revenge in first, and muster up support from others. It backfired, badly, and all the government did was sit and grin. Don't attempt to credit the incompetent gobs with this.
the public v private battle was always going to happen, the private sector took wage cuts, pay freezes and lost jobs (166k in a year) as the companies they work for have no money to survive. while the public sector wont accepts cut in wages, jobs and I woul dlove to know if there is actually a pay freeze in place for people who get promotions - all theis why their employer is broke......so this battle was always gonna take place.
Quote from: Tankie on November 26, 2009, 01:15:21 AM
the public v private battle was always going to happen, the private sector took wage cuts, pay freezes and lost jobs (166k in a year) as the companies they work for have no money to survive. while the public sector wont accepts cut in wages, jobs and I woul dlove to know if there is actually a pay freeze in place for people who get promotions - all theis why their employer is broke......so this battle was always gonna take place.
This has f all to do with public V private. Public V private is the ultimate infighting. It's about time we stopped fighting across eachother.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 08:33:57 AM
Quote from: Tankie on November 26, 2009, 01:15:21 AM
the public v private battle was always going to happen, the private sector took wage cuts, pay freezes and lost jobs (166k in a year) as the companies they work for have no money to survive. while the public sector wont accepts cut in wages, jobs and I woul dlove to know if there is actually a pay freeze in place for people who get promotions - all theis why their employer is broke......so this battle was always gonna take place.
This has f all to do with public V private. Public V private is the ultimate infighting. It's about time we stopped fighting across eachother.
Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out. ::)
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2009, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 25, 2009, 10:03:57 PM
My proposal would be to bring in a MAXIMUM wage of €100000/annum for government officials. The rest of the country should be forced to live with less than this. And bring down the cost of living to suit people's needs (if that could be done) :-\.
Every multinational and anyone of talent would be gone in the morning.
Why? They'd have less to pay their employers.
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 08:50:15 AM
Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out. ::)
I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 08:50:15 AM
Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out. ::)
I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 bl
MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
I know it must be saved. How about the Government take the tough decisions the say they need to take and introduce a fair Tax system. How about they act like a Government in a Country in crisis and show some leadership. Take back corrib. Chase tax exiles. Stop paying bonuses to failed exectutives and claim back bonuses paid for jobs badly done. Take those who really carried out economic treason and deal with them (eg. Bertie Ahern) instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.
To be honest I couldn't care less where it comes from. My point is that the people who work in the private sector are blaming the people in the public sector and visa versa while the people who are to blame are pulling the strings and stoking the flames to divert from themselves. We need to pay and we rightly should but not untill those responsible are made and seen as responsible.
Quoteinstead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.
A bit over the top maybe? ::) ::)
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 09:23:21 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
I know it must be saved. How about the Government take the tough decisions the say they need to take and introduce a fair Tax system. How about they act like a Government in a Country in crisis and show some leadership. Take back corrib. Chase tax exiles. Stop paying bonuses to failed exectutives and claim back bonuses paid for jobs badly done. Take those who really carried out economic treason and deal with them (eg. Bertie Ahern) instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.
To be honest I couldn't care less where it comes from. My point is that the people who work in the private sector are blaming the people in the public sector and visa versa while the people who are to blame are pulling the strings and stoking the flames to divert from themselves. We need to pay and we rightly should but not untill those responsible are made and seen as responsible.
Once again from you populist nonsense, tax increases for the general population won't cover these loses let alone taxing the "high" profile targets .
I ain't blaming the public sector just saying they need to get real.
QuoteWe need to pay and we rightly should but not untill those responsible are made and seen as responsible.
More populist nonsense ,ever heard of due processes? We can't just go down to the banks and string these guys up. We don't have time to wait for the court to find these guys guilty. The budget needs to be fixed this December not December 3 years and even if we did string these guy's up 1.3bl ain't going to fall out of their pockets
Quote from: Lecale2 on November 26, 2009, 09:30:37 AM
Quoteinstead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.
A bit over the top maybe? ::) ::)
Some people who are about to become homeless and end up with debts they'll never pay and calling them starving prob is over the top but not as far over as calling them treasonous.
Gnevin, my outlook has never been popular. It isn't popular now. The popular view is to blame eachother. My view hasn't changed in 10 years. If this had have been done 10 years ago it would be dealt with by now but it looks like it Will be put on the neverending long finger again. It's a merrygoround. I'm far from an economist but I do think that bad practice left unpunished leads to more bad practice. I'm all on for letting the country crash and turn to anarchy at this stage. A lesson hard learnt perhaps.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 10:53:16 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on November 26, 2009, 09:30:37 AM
Quoteinstead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.
A bit over the top maybe? ::) ::)
Some people who are about to become homeless and end up with debts they'll never pay and calling them starving prob is over the top but not as far over as calling them treasonous.
Gnevin, my outlook has never been popular. It isn't popular now. The popular view is to blame eachother. My view hasn't changed in 10 years. If this had have been done 10 years ago it would be dealt with by now but it looks like it Will be put on the neverending long finger again. It's a merrygoround. I'm far from an economist but I do think that bad practice left unpunished leads to more bad practice. I'm all on for letting the country crash and turn to anarchy at this stage. A lesson hard learnt perhaps.
There is a difference between popular and populism.
Zap you really are wired to the moon! Between calling for blood on the streets and your latest outrageous statement. To quote the philosopher Dunphyious "You've jumped the fence baby"
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 10:59:56 AM
There is a difference between popular and populism.
Zap you really are wired to the moon! Between calling for blood on the streets and your latest outrageous statement. To quote the philosopher Dunphyious "You've jumped the fence baby"
'Blood on the streets'? This is something i'm used to at this stage. I say what I think and those who disagree make me out to be a lunatic. First they ingnore you. Then they laugh at yuo. Then they fight you. Then.....they laugh at you again. Eventually they win and we go back to the start.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 09:23:21 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
I know it must be saved. How about the Government take the tough decisions the say they need to take and introduce a fair Tax system. How about they act like a Government in a Country in crisis and show some leadership. Take back corrib. Chase tax exiles. Stop paying bonuses to failed exectutives and claim back bonuses paid for jobs badly done. Take those who really carried out economic treason and deal with them (eg. Bertie Ahern) instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.
To be honest I couldn't care less where it comes from. My point is that the people who work in the private sector are blaming the people in the public sector and visa versa while the people who are to blame are pulling the strings and stoking the flames to divert from themselves. We need to pay and we rightly should but not untill those responsible are made and seen as responsible.
it takes more than that Zap and the quicker we move the better...i work for a company that was hit in Q3 last year with a major drop in sale, revenue etc and once these figures were announced they had a meeting the next day and in that meeting - full salary freeze not matter what, pay cut for some, all travel was cut, any expenditure cut (couldnt even get a notepad at one stage), all recruitment stopped. In Q1 of this year they cut 10% of staff, expenditure and travel freeze stayed in place and the pay freeze too.
Over the last few days it was announced we are rehiring again and unless has an unexpected drop there will be a pay rise and a bonus paid next year....travel and expenditure still need to be approved by senior management but my point is last year we were all in shock between lay offs, wage cuts etc and now due to that quick action the company saved millions and are now back on a safe footing......this has hapened all over the private sector and the companies that didnt act quickly are gone.going out of business and this is why the private sector expect the government to do the same as they did and get this turned around quickly by making the tough decisions now
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 26, 2009, 08:51:18 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2009, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 25, 2009, 10:03:57 PM
My proposal would be to bring in a MAXIMUM wage of €100000/annum for government officials. The rest of the country should be forced to live with less than this. And bring down the cost of living to suit people's needs (if that could be done) :-\.
Every multinational and anyone of talent would be gone in the morning.
Why? They'd have less to pay their employers.
They (the employers) would be taking such a massive pay cut themselves that 'they' would be gone like a shot.
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 08:50:15 AM
Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out. ::)
I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
1.3bn :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 26, 2009, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 08:50:15 AM
Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out. ::)
I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
1.3bn :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.
We might be better off if the Government do nothing. Then it will really get sorted within about 12 months.
Quote from: muppet on November 26, 2009, 09:45:30 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 26, 2009, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 08:50:15 AM
Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out. ::)
I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
1.3bn :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.
We might be better off if the Government do nothing. Then it will really get sorted within about 12 months.
yeah, would be better than the zombie century we're heading into - mcwilliams often posited uruguay as an example of where we're going (and that doesn't mean south africa via the play-offs) and he could be right - dunno would that be too bad though (always wanted to visit montevideo).
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 26, 2009, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 08:50:15 AM
Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out. ::)
I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
1.3bn :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.
1.3BL is the amount that must be cut from Public Sector pay or so say FF. Not the total of the cuts required .
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1125/1224259392551.html
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 26, 2009, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 26, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 26, 2009, 08:50:15 AM
Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out. ::)
I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.
No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.
The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?
1.3bn :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.
1.3BL is the amount that must be cut from Public Sector pay or so say FF. Not the total of the cuts required .
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1125/1224259392551.html
Enough said
Re the paltry 1.3bn that the govt and unions are fighting over, i wonder has the dept of finance factored in the drop in tax take of reducing salary for these workers, this will also affect the revenue generated from the pension levy. Have they applied a reasonable multiplier to see what the effect on the greater economy will be? Whilst these may seem like basic questions, after the pension levy debacle they have to be asked.
I also wish that when public sector workers are being interviewed on prime time etc they'd stop referring to the 5% or 7% drop in take home pay due to the pension levy, as it's tax deductible, the effect is essentially half of that.
You would like to think so but wasnt there some issue last year where they forgot to apply VAT on figures
Quote from: Tankie on November 26, 2009, 05:21:56 PM
....travel and expenditure still need to be approved by senior management but my point is last year we were all in shock between lay offs, wage cuts etc and now due to that quick action the company saved millions and are now back on a safe footing......this has hapened all over the private sector and the companies that didnt act quickly are gone.going out of business and this is why the private sector expect the government to do the same as they did and get this turned around quickly by making the tough decisions now
This is in agreement with me. Good management. It wasn't a case of them acting quickly but moreso them acting properly. In the public sector the ludicrous bonuses were paid in full to the management, even those who failed to perform. I'd say the expenses in your company were always more scrutinised than what we seen in the case of FAS, JOD etc. It isn't a case of making a turn around to save public sector costs but more a case of bad management letting it reach a point of no return. I agree in cuts but I don't agree that they should be made by the untrustworthy management in place.. If this bad management and system remains in place we are fooked regardless of pay cuts. I have no doubt that the Government knew well in advance of any private company that we were about tho hit a wall yet they did nothing. As we approached an election we were told all was well and all will improve. The Government continued to promise and promise. If your company decided to ignore the danger and not put the changes in place they would be gone and the management with it. As in the case with the public sector they ignored and lied to us and are now making us responsible. We need to pay the bills but we need those responsible to be held to account first. Can you imagine if your management did nothing when they knew they were in trouble, give you a pay rise and told you it shouldn't be a problem if you bought a big house in the knowledge the company was in big trouble. Then one year later told you you are to take a pay cut and leave you up the swany? Who would be in the wrong?
Quote from: Zapatista on November 27, 2009, 08:14:37 AM
Quote from: Tankie on November 26, 2009, 05:21:56 PM
....travel and expenditure still need to be approved by senior management but my point is last year we were all in shock between lay offs, wage cuts etc and now due to that quick action the company saved millions and are now back on a safe footing......this has hapened all over the private sector and the companies that didnt act quickly are gone.going out of business and this is why the private sector expect the government to do the same as they did and get this turned around quickly by making the tough decisions now
This is in agreement with me. Good management. It wasn't a case of them acting quickly but moreso them acting properly. In the public sector the ludicrous bonuses were paid in full to the management, even those who failed to perform. I'd say the expenses in your company were always more scrutinised than what we seen in the case of FAS, JOD etc. It isn't a case of making a turn around to save public sector costs but more a case of bad management letting it reach a point of no return. I agree in cuts but I don't agree that they should be made by the untrustworthy management in place.. If this bad management and system remains in place we are fooked regardless of pay cuts. I have no doubt that the Government knew well in advance of any private company that we were about tho hit a wall yet they did nothing. As we approached an election we were told all was well and all will improve. The Government continued to promise and promise. If your company decided to ignore the danger and not put the changes in place they would be gone and the management with it. As in the case with the public sector they ignored and lied to us and are now making us responsible. We need to pay the bills but we need those responsible to be held to account first. Can you imagine if your management did nothing when they knew they were in trouble, give you a pay rise and told you it shouldn't be a problem if you bought a big house in the knowledge the company was in big trouble. Then one year later told you you are to take a pay cut and leave you up the swany? Who would be in the wrong?
I take it from that your inferring the company is at fault for letting you take out the big mortgage?
QuoteI take it from that you inferring the company is at fault for letting you take out the big mortgage?
Now that is bazaar!
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo320/hudge07/image001.jpg)
That's what's wrong with this feckin country - no-one will take responsibility for their actions, especially those that don't believe they've any culpability (even though they voted for the gombeens, again and again and again).
There was a lot of fools that left themselves very open for ridicule last day of action as they hit the batter in coppers on Monday before dying in bed when they should have been picketing. Now this arguement has run its course but surely the civil servants could do something useful like volunteering to help flood victims around the country intead of walking around in a circle outside their workplace.
Now I know it is not even close to their responsibility but even as a PR exercise it would do them no harm. I know lots of teachers last day out that weren't arsed getting up out of bed last Tuesday and it made their cause look very stupid. Just a thought here ???
Didn't the Council workers in Athlone refuse to help the flood victems in the town during that last strike?
I don't think the unions involved give a shite about PR.
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 01, 2009, 01:29:41 PM
Didn't the Council workers in Athlone refuse to help the flood victems in the town during that last strike?
I don't think the unions involved give a shite about PR.
Did they? Were did you hear that?
Quote from: Zapatista on December 01, 2009, 01:34:10 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 01, 2009, 01:29:41 PM
Didn't the Council workers in Athlone refuse to help the flood victems in the town during that last strike?
I don't think the unions involved give a shite about PR.
Did they? Were did you hear that?
RTE Radio 1.
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 01, 2009, 03:16:01 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on December 01, 2009, 01:34:10 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 01, 2009, 01:29:41 PM
Didn't the Council workers in Athlone refuse to help the flood victems in the town during that last strike?
I don't think the unions involved give a shite about PR.
Did they? Were did you hear that?
RTE Radio 1.
Can't find it anywhere online. Lots of links to Cowen getting heckled by the victims but nothing about Council workers refusing to help the victims. It might be true but I doubt anyone from Athlone would refuse to help the flood victims.
Quote from: Zapatista on December 01, 2009, 06:37:40 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 01, 2009, 03:16:01 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on December 01, 2009, 01:34:10 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 01, 2009, 01:29:41 PM
Didn't the Council workers in Athlone refuse to help the flood victems in the town during that last strike?
I don't think the unions involved give a shite about PR.
Did they? Were did you hear that?
RTE Radio 1.
Can't find it anywhere online. Lots of links to Cowen getting heckled by the victims but nothing about Council workers refusing to help the victims. It might be true but I doubt anyone from Athlone would refuse to help the flood victims.
Lecale2 is right, the county council workers remained on strike instead of helping out. i know thisas friends of mine in Athlone are affected by the floods.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on December 01, 2009, 07:06:13 PM
Lecale2 is right, the county council workers remained on strike instead of helping out. i know thisas friends of mine in Athlone are affected by the floods.
How do you know they didn't help out, maybe they were flooded too. Maybe they donated money or clothes etc. Because they remained on strike does not mean they refused to help out with the flood victims. Council workers live in Ireland too and there may have been flood victims on strike. I think these claims are part of the abuse of the flood crisis by the Government. The first houses were barely damp before they Govenment were using it as an excuse to call off the strike. We'd be better questioning how or why this shit happened rather than trying to score points off it.