gaaboard.com

I'm all for it but think it could be 5 years before we see anything happen on this. 

Should help the smugglers!! 8)

Great idea, but would the traffic volume make it economical?

The reason the Irish Government want the build, is to open up tourist on that side of the island. That can only be a good thing.

Danny Kennedy is usually reasonable as Unionists go ( he was excellent in 94 welcoming Sam number 5) but I cannot see his problem here. It would be a tremendous boost to everyone in North Louth/South Down and take a lot of pressure off Newry traffic. Bring it on Bertie!

QuoteDanny Kennedy is usually reasonable as Unionists go ( he was excellent in 94 welcoming Sam number 5) but I cannot see his problem here. It would be a tremendous boost to everyone in North Louth/South Down and take a lot of pressure off Newry traffic. Bring it on Bertie!

All in favour of it.  Nothing worse that being in the Point and wanting to go to Omeath and have to go all the way to Newry and out.  If it were to go ahead would it then be called the 'Bertie Bridge'?

Build it and they wil come.  ;D

Build the fecker, looked at wedding venues round that area last year and a bridge would have saved alot of diesel!!!  ;)

All for it, but ban trucks from using it. The infrastructure on the south side of the bridge couldn't (and shouldn't have to) cope with that type of increase in traffic; unless of course the roads have recently been upgraded, but it'd be a pity if they were.

I go from Mayobridge to Dundalk every week day but I'm not sure the Bridge would be much advantage to me.  Its a long run from Narrow water to the Ballymac Round about.  The road over the mountain is bad and wouldn't be an option.  It would be great for tourism and is bound to help the traffic in Newry.  People coming from the point to the Quays or Buttercran would have the option to approach from the Omeath road and not get caught in the traffic build up around the Gateway club which is brutal on a Saturday especially. 

5Times - I'm not sure why you think there would be much truck traffic between the point and Greenore? 

We will be lucky to see it in 5 years if its ever built.

Danny Kennedy, while saying he felt the idea of this bridge was motivated in part by misty-eyed nationalist ideas, said his biggest concern was that the infrastructure on either side of the bridge would be incapable of handling a high volume of traffic, especially heavier commericial traffic, and that would cause problems on both sides.  In other words, this won't work if only a bridge is built.

If it aids tourism, concerns over traffic volume as mentioned above and it doesn't detract from the beauty of the area, good idea.

However, like most big ideas outside of Dublin announced by the Dublin Government, not one to hold the breath over. 

QuoteHowever, like most big ideas outside of Dublin announced by the Dublin Government, not one to hold the breath over.

Get used to it Gweltah.   :P

As I said in an earlier thread, the curmudgeony of Unionist politicians, particularly so-called sensible, reasonable ones, in this whole debate is nauseating.

The Cooley-Mourne bridge proposal is one of the most needed transport links in the north - not only for economic and road safety reasons but as a forging of people in a close-knit area whose differences are miniscule. It's all a step in the right direction and, frankly, the laggards and no men are going to have to accept the truth that progress on ecomomic union is now unstoppable because it just makes plain sense.

Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on January 28, 2007, 12:18:27 PM
As I said in an earlier thread, the curmudgeony of Unionist politicians, particularly so-called sensible, reasonable ones, in this whole debate is nauseating.

The Cooley-Mourne bridge proposal is one of the most needed transport links in the north - not only for economic and road safety reasons but as a forging of people in a close-knit area whose differences are miniscule. It's all a step in the right direction and, frankly, the laggards and no men are going to have to accept the truth that progress on ecomomic union is now unstoppable because it just makes plain sense.

Here here old chap.  ;)

Here here here
My people are from Mourne, my Granny was from Cooley. They used the boat then, there are still great links between Cooley and Greencastle. Time to restore a link that recognises no border other than that between Down and Louth. See you next Sunday.

5Fm reported something about the Bridge coming a step closer this morning after yesterdays North South meeting in Dundalk.  I didn't catch the whole report, anyone know what the deal is?

What or where is "Narrow Water"?

Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2008, 04:02:14 PM
What or where is "Narrow Water"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrow_Water_Castle

Warrenpoint and Omeath are about 500 yards apart on the map...however the piece of water between them is Narrow Water dividing Mexico and OWC. There's a campaign to get a bridge built there for obvious reasons as it would reduce a 16 or 17 mile round trip via Newry to one of a couple of hundred yards. This is also the same Narrow Water where 18 Paras met their maker in 1979. In the photo below left hand side is the north and right hand side is the south.

(http://www.reisimpressies.eu/afbeeldingen/Ierland-warrenpoint-havenoverzicht.jpg)

Didn't Simon and Garfunkell do a song about this issue?

The proposed Narrow Water bridge will be funded 100% by the Irish Government. It is a tourism bridge that will be designed to take nothing larger than a saloon car and will probably have to open in some way, to allow ships to enter Victoria Lock and sail into Newry . Louth County Council have appointed consultants to carry out a feasibility study. Early days yet.

The Department for Regional Development have been working on proposals for a South Down Relief Road for the past two years. The proposal is for a duel carriageway linking the Warrenpoint/Newry Rd to the Belfast/Dublin Rd at the Cloghogue Roundabout outside Newry.

This road will be designed to take 90% of the heavy lorries leaving Warrenpoint Port away from Newry town centre and will improve journey times between County Down and Dublin.

Scott Wilson Consultants have been working on this feasibility study for over a year and are due to report to Minister Conor Murphy within the next 2 or 3 months.

Bit like city bus - you wait for one for years then 2 come along at once! Mind you is there anywhere else in Europe where they would build 2 bridges within such a short distance in an area of outstanding natural beauty?

5ive Times - was that you in the red Beamer that over-took me on the Omeath road heading for Newry about 8.30 this morning? You must have been hitting 80!

Quote from: 5 Sams on February 08, 2008, 04:22:57 PM
Warrenpoint and Omeath are about 500 yards apart on the map...however the piece of water between them is Narrow Water dividing Mexico and OWC. There's a campaign to get a bridge built there for obvious reasons as it would reduce a 16 or 17 mile round trip via Newry to one of a couple of hundred yards. This is also the same Narrow Water where 18 Paras met their maker in 1979. In the photo below left hand side is the north and right hand side is the south.

(http://www.reisimpressies.eu/afbeeldingen/Ierland-warrenpoint-havenoverzicht.jpg)

Looks like a nice spot.

The Warrenpoint massacre is one of the first memories I have of the troubles, mainly because I remember my father, who had no love for the royal family, commenting on how all of the attention was on Lord Mountbatten getting blown up in Donegal bay that day, with hardly a mention of those 18 soliders.

Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2008, 05:59:25 PM

The Warrenpoint massacre is one of the first memories I have of the troubles, mainly because I remember my father, who had no love for the royal family, commenting on how all of the attention was on Lord Mountbatten getting blown up in Donegal bay that day, with hardly a mention of those 18 soliders.

Not so sure of that. Bloody Sunday was a massacre. Enniskillen was a massacre as were many other atrocities over the Troubles but taking on a regiment of murdering fcukers like that and beating them at their own game is more like a good days work.

Sorry should this be on the controversial beliefs thread?

Quote from: Donagh on February 08, 2008, 07:45:16 PM

Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2008, 05:59:25 PM

The Warrenpoint massacre is one of the first memories I have of the troubles, mainly because I remember my father, who had no love for the royal family, commenting on how all of the attention was on Lord Mountbatten getting blown up in Donegal bay that day, with hardly a mention of those 18 soliders.

Not so sure of that. Bloody Sunday was a massacre. Enniskillen was a massacre as were many other atrocities over the Troubles but taking on a regiment of murdering fcukers like that and beating them at their own game is more like a good days work.

Sorry should this be on the controversial beliefs thread?

Were the perpatrators of this 'good days work' in full army uniform and prepared to fight them in hand to hand combat?

Nothing but an act of cowardice.

Quote from: Chrisowc on February 08, 2008, 07:52:05 PM
Were the perpatrators of this 'good days work' in full army uniform and prepared to fight them in hand to hand combat?

Nothing but an act of cowardice.

Dunno I wasn't there but I'm sure the self same regiment didn't concern themselves too much about such trivial things when they entered the Bogside in 1972 to teach the natives a lesson. Narrow Water was the natives teaching the master.

Narrow Water Bridge is a complete waste of time and is doing nothing other that to serve as a distraction from the main issue - The Newry Southern Relief Road - This is the scheme that is really needed to improve the flow of traffic from to and from Warrenpoint and beyond.

Lecale did the red Beamer driver gove you the standard 'one Beamer driver to another Beamer driver' signal as he over took you??

Quote from: Donagh on February 08, 2008, 07:57:16 PM

Quote from: Chrisowc on February 08, 2008, 07:52:05 PM
Were the perpatrators of this 'good days work' in full army uniform and prepared to fight them in hand to hand combat?

Nothing but an act of cowardice.

Dunno I wasn't there but I'm sure the self same regiment didn't concern themselves too much about such trivial things when they entered the Bogside in 1972 to teach the natives a lesson. Narrow Water was the natives teaching the master.

That makes it ok then.

Quote from: Donagh on February 08, 2008, 07:45:16 PM

Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2008, 05:59:25 PM

The Warrenpoint massacre is one of the first memories I have of the troubles, mainly because I remember my father, who had no love for the royal family, commenting on how all of the attention was on Lord Mountbatten getting blown up in Donegal bay that day, with hardly a mention of those 18 soliders.

Not so sure of that. Bloody Sunday was a massacre. Enniskillen was a massacre as were many other atrocities over the Troubles but taking on a regiment of murdering fcukers like that and beating them at their own game is more like a good days work.

Sorry should this be on the controversial beliefs thread?

Call it whatever you want.

Aw Jaysus lads can we not just keep this as a discussion about the merits of building a bridge

Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 08, 2008, 08:12:18 PM
Aw Jaysus lads can we not just keep this as a discussion about the merits of building a bridge

It looks like a very nice setting for a bridge, although I would worry about the impact such a construction operation would have on that nice estuary and bay. Hopefully they'll keep the environmental impact to a minimum.

How's that? :P

Incidentally in that general part of the world Google maps have uploaded new hi-res satellite photos for a band from Cross' to Dundalk, but not Cooley. So see the border area in all its glory, look both into the barracks and the Slab Murphy enterprise.

Only the Irish could start a threat on a proposed bridge and end up arguing the merits of the deaths of 18 soldiers.  :-[

Quote from: stew on February 08, 2008, 11:39:18 PM
Only the Irish could start a threat on a proposed bridge and end up arguing the merits of the deaths of 18 soldiers.  :-[

Nah, the Italians can do it as well

(http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/m/morric_enni_giulatest_102b.jpg)

We need a bridge over these troubled waters, though i suspect it will never happen, our local politicos north or south will never deliver the cash or the initative, Europe only hope, they may take it on board as a regional development project or cross border initative to benefit run down areas

Quote from: Pangurban on February 09, 2008, 12:00:26 AM
We need a bridge over these troubled waters, though i suspect it will never happen, our local politicos north or south will never deliver the cash or the initative, Europe only hope, they may take it on board as a regional development project or cross border initative to benefit run down areas

Where exactly are the run down areas you speak of?    Warrenpoint?   Carlingford?   Rostrevor?  Greenore? No real signs of poverty round there as far as I know

Exactly the reason they will get out. If you look at the disposition of this type of grant aid  over the last ten years, none has gone where it is really needed, in terms of poverty, going instead to reasonably affluent areas capable of generating a return

And you want to continue the trend by spending, sorry, wasting money on a bridge like this?

Quote from: 5iveTimes on February 09, 2008, 07:24:01 PM
Almost £300,000 is being spent to study the feasibility of a cross-border bridge linking Counties Down and Louth.
The bridge would span Carlingford Lough between Omeath and Narrow Water Castle, near Warrenpoint.

The money was confirmed after Margaret Ritchie and Dermot Ahern held talks at the North-South Ministerial Council.

The social development minister said it was "no longer just a concept". She said tourism in the Mournes and the Cooley peninsula would be boosted.

Ms Ritchie said the bridge would "be a living symbol of our growing co-operation".

"People will be able to make a journey in a few yards which at present is many miles," the SDLP assembly member said.

 
"It will make it very convenient for thousands of overseas tourists to easily visit both parts of our island at this splendid location, bringing a big economic boost to the area."

Regional Development Minister Conor Murphy of Sinn Fein said the Department of Transport in Dublin has granted 390,000 euros to Louth County Council for a technical study.

"It has already been agreed that officials from the north and south will share information from the study as well as from the Roads Service's study of the Newry Southern Relief road," he said.

Narrow Water Castle came to world prominence in 1979, when an IRA ambush killed 18 soldiers in two explosions.

Louth cc doing the feasibility/ technical study, christ that's made my day; and only for  €1/3 million

This Southern Relief road sounds real intersting but surley its not much good without a bridge at Narrow Water?  Unless they were to build a new road from Pairc Esler round about up to the new dual carriage way but the terrain would be just too steep I would think.

The bridge will come - it has too

Of course parts of the omeath road will have to be upgraded

As someone who travels every day from the Point Road to Dundalk - the bridge would give me a 2nd option

Dermot Ahern stated that the Irish Government has set aside 14 million euro for this project.

Would the bridge be tolled ???? Would people pay to use it ?? I would say yes

WIth more and more traffic on the roads and Warrenpoint Harbour getting bigger and bigger -  the need for road improvements and a bridge has tensified !

If I had won the 95 million last night i would have built one and tolled away !!!

The southern relief road is also on the cards - both will come !

Don't forget that Connor Murphy is the Regional Development Officer and this is his local area !

Quote from: amallon on February 09, 2008, 08:16:24 PM
This Southern Relief road sounds real intersting but surley its not much good without a bridge at Narrow Water?  Unless they were to build a new road from Pairc Esler round about up to the new dual carriage way but the terrain would be just too steep I would think.

`

That's why you pay consultants big bucks. They solve these problems for you!

QuoteDon't forget that Connor Murphy is the Regional Development Officer and this is his local area !

One wonders why he isn't having the upgraded Newry bypass as a proper motorway, instead of a nearly motorway that will still have tractors on it. Are Motorways only for East of the Bann?

This is an interesting proposal but if they are going to do they should do it right and build the duel carriageway version straight through to the Dublin Road. There is no need for two bridges within a mile of each other.

Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2008, 11:04:35 PM

QuoteDon't forget that Connor Murphy is the Regional Development Officer and this is his local area !

One wonders why he isn't having the upgraded Newry bypass as a proper motorway, instead of a nearly motorway that will still have tractors on it. Are Motorways only for East of the Bann?

Because tractors aren't allowed on motorways.

Anything that allows you to bye pass Newry is a good thing in my opinion and should be welcomed.

I agree with you Flynn 100%. Firstly the new Newry by pass will end at the existing newly upgraded section of the A1 at Beechill where there is a busy at grade junction, a housing development and a 60 mph speed limit. This on a section of road which was just completed last year!! As regards the Narrow Water Bridge this cannot be justified on traffic grounds and will be of no real benefit for traffic travelling from South Down to Dublin compared with the proposed Newry southern Relief Road, which, as an earlier poster asked, will run from the Warrenpoint Road, adjacent to the Marshes football ground and run along an elevated route, to the main Belfast to Dublin Road. It is a hugely exciting prospect but I believe it could be jeopardised by the cheaper and much less effective Narrow Water Bridge 

I hadn't heard anything of this southern relief road before and was in favour of the narrow water bridge, but the southern relief road would be my preference now.  The bridge will be built first because the southern government will be coughing up a large part of the money for it.  The southern relief road would have to be paid for by the northern tax payer and for that reason is more likely to be put on the long finger.

What I really want is a motorway from the 7 bends to the cloghue junction straight through Ballyholland!   ;)

They should build the bridge surely - and get Arthur Morgan to open it!

What would the building of this bridge do to the price of property on the carriageway between the point and Newry? I am thinking the land would be worth considerably more than it is now.

A bit of a fall out between Conor Murphy & Margaret Ritchie on this one.
Ritchie is being an opportunist issuing press releases on issues that Murphy is responsible for.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19948062 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19948062)

Narrow Water bridge gets go-ahead from Irish planners
CGI model of the bridge at Narrow Water The bridge will span the Newry River at Narrow Water
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63495000/jpg/_63495009_1.jpg)

Irish planning authorities have given the go-ahead for a new bridge to be built at Narrow Water between County Louth and County Down.

An Bord Pleanála gave planning permission to Louth County Council for the construction of the bridge across the Newry River.

NI Environment Minister, Alex Attwood, last week granted planning permission for the project.

The single lane cable bridge will be 660 metres long and cost 18m euro.

The project is one of 12 seeking a share of a 30m euro EU fund and Louth County Council said they hoped it would be opened by mid-2015.

Already 900,000 euro has been spent on the project so far.

The Chairman of Louth County Council, Countillor Finnan McCoy, described the announcement by An Bord Pleanála as "another welcome and important milestone towards physical work commencing on the site".

Maybe this one could be named after Mary McAleese since the Drogheda lot don't want to rename the Boyne Bridge for her. 

QuoteThe project is one of 12 seeking a share of a 30m euro EU fund and Louth County Council said they hoped it would be opened by mid-2015.

These don't seem great odds, but EU funding is key.

QuoteMaybe this one could be named after Mary McAleese since the Drogheda lot don't want to rename the Boyne Bridge for her.

I think this would be ideal, much more so than the M1 bridge.

Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 10, 2008, 12:36:32 PM
I agree with you Flynn 100%. Firstly the new Newry by pass will end at the existing newly upgraded section of the A1 at Beechill where there is a busy at grade junction, a housing development and a 60 mph speed limit. This on a section of road which was just completed last year!! As regards the Narrow Water Bridge this cannot be justified on traffic grounds and will be of no real benefit for traffic travelling from South Down to Dublin compared with the proposed Newry southern Relief Road, which, as an earlier poster asked, will run from the Warrenpoint Road, adjacent to the Marshes football ground and run along an elevated route, to the main Belfast to Dublin Road. It is a hugely exciting prospect but I believe it could be jeopardised by the cheaper and much less effective Narrow Water Bridge

TMG - rock of sense.
This is an ego project being contested on narrow political grounds between selfishSDLP imterests & Shinner politicos. Has any cost-benefit analysis been done? I doubt it.. A Newry southern relief road is not just an alternative - it is an essential part of the north-south infranstructure, both for Nerwy and the bottlencks that are Kilorey Street & Dublin Bridges - and for the Mourne region, which could potentially be given a direct link from the Dublin-Belfast motorway. If Narrow Water goes ahead it will emasculate the notion of a proper north-south link rather than enhance it.
Narrow Water = Narrow Thinking.

Quote from: Rois on October 15, 2012, 01:05:49 PM
Maybe this one could be named after Mary McAleese since the Drogheda lot don't want to rename the Boyne Bridge for her.

I wouldn't be too sure of that Rois

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19941696 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19941696)

Surely it has to be named after a famous Down legend,like Sean O'Neill

Quote from: ziggysego on October 16, 2012, 01:10:59 AM

Quote from: Rois on October 15, 2012, 01:05:49 PM
Maybe this one could be named after Mary McAleese since the Drogheda lot don't want to rename the Boyne Bridge for her.

I wouldn't be too sure of that Rois

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19941696 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19941696)

According to another: "Mary McAleese was a good president but she's not from this area, so I don't think it should be called after her."

The 'Steve Staunton Boyne Cable Bridge' it is then....

Quote from: Leo on October 15, 2012, 10:18:48 PM

Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 10, 2008, 12:36:32 PM
I agree with you Flynn 100%. Firstly the new Newry by pass will end at the existing newly upgraded section of the A1 at Beechill where there is a busy at grade junction, a housing development and a 60 mph speed limit. This on a section of road which was just completed last year!! As regards the Narrow Water Bridge this cannot be justified on traffic grounds and will be of no real benefit for traffic travelling from South Down to Dublin compared with the proposed Newry southern Relief Road, which, as an earlier poster asked, will run from the Warrenpoint Road, adjacent to the Marshes football ground and run along an elevated route, to the main Belfast to Dublin Road. It is a hugely exciting prospect but I believe it could be jeopardised by the cheaper and much less effective Narrow Water Bridge

TMG - rock of sense.
This is an ego project being contested on narrow political grounds between selfishSDLP imterests & Shinner politicos. Has any cost-benefit analysis been done? I doubt it.. A Newry southern relief road is not just an alternative - it is an essential part of the north-south infranstructure, both for Nerwy and the bottlencks that are Kilorey Street & Dublin Bridges - and for the Mourne region, which could potentially be given a direct link from the Dublin-Belfast motorway. If Narrow Water goes ahead it will emasculate the notion of a proper north-south link rather than enhance it.
Narrow Water = Narrow Thinking.

Well said Leo. The southern relief road is also essential for the future of Warrenpoint Port. There was an economic appraisal carry out a few years ago the there is a very strong economic case for it.

If the Narrow Water Bridge goes ahead the relief road that is really needed will never happen.

Who told Louth Co. Co. they had naming rights for the Boyne bridge? As previously announced here, it will be Joe Sheridan Bridge, to symbolise the historic sporting friendship between the counties it joins.

QuoteThis is an ego project being contested on narrow political grounds between selfishSDLP imterests & Shinner politicos. Has any cost-benefit analysis been done? I doubt it.. A Newry southern relief road is not just an alternative - it is an essential part of the north-south infranstructure, both for Nerwy and the bottlencks that are Kilorey Street & Dublin Bridges - and for the Mourne region, which could potentially be given a direct link from the Dublin-Belfast motorway. If Narrow Water goes ahead it will emasculate the notion of a proper north-south link rather than enhance it.
Narrow Water = Narrow Thinking.

I don't see what a Narrow water bridge has to do with Newry southern relief road. It is bit like saying that widening the road from Camlough to Bessbrook reduces the need for a Newry bypass. This project is developed by Louth and will be largely funded by EU sources, probably a fund for tourist infrastructure, and will have feck all work needed on the northern side.   The relief road will have to stand on its own merits.

Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2012, 09:16:31 AM
Who told Louth Co. Co. they had naming rights for the Boyne bridge? As previously announced here, it will be Joe Sheridan Bridge, to symbolise the historic sporting friendship between the counties it joins.

Now now, if you can't share it, then it will have to be the Martin Sludden Bridge

Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 10, 2008, 12:36:32 PM
will be of no real benefit for traffic travelling from South Down to Dublin

but think of how quick it will be for stag doos to get to Carlingford...and to the Poc Fada...and the cheap(er) diesel in Omeath. Manna from heaven. They'll be flocking from as far away as Rathfriland. The Hugh Morgan bridge it is...

Lads if the money comes it'll be from the PEACE III or INTERREG money which is primarily for cross-border community and voluntary groups to promote cooperation. They're not going to fund a relief road around Newry to help south Down mucksavages get to work 15 minutes earlier.

Quote from: Ulick on October 16, 2012, 10:23:57 AM
Lads if the money comes it'll be from the PEACE III or INTERREG money which is primarily for cross-border community and voluntary groups to promote cooperation. They're not going to fund a relief road around Newry to help south Down mucksavages get to work 15 minutes earlier.

Probably and with the PEACE III currently coming to an end it is likely to come from PEACE IV money which will be coming despite what some people are suggesting.

I'd love to see this bridge happen, but without a connecting road over the mountain, it brings so few benefits to the areas involved that I just don't see the point of it.

If some altruistic millionaire wanted to pay for it to leave their mark on their area, then I'd applaud their generosity. But if taxes are being used, they should be put to better use in my opinion.

A similar bridge from Greencastle to Greenore could revolutionise trade and passage in the eastern counties. But as it would cost Narrow Water times X it'll never happen. If Americans had have had the same attitude a century ago though, nothing would ever have been built.

QuoteBut if taxes are being used, they should be put to better use in my opinion.

If the EU pay for anything like 50% then little tax money would be needed, as a significant part of expenditure returns directly in taxation from PAYE, VAT etc.

But the point about the mountain road is valid.

Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2012, 09:31:42 AM

QuoteThis is an ego project being contested on narrow political grounds between selfishSDLP imterests & Shinner politicos. Has any cost-benefit analysis been done? I doubt it.. A Newry southern relief road is not just an alternative - it is an essential part of the north-south infranstructure, both for Nerwy and the bottlencks that are Kilorey Street & Dublin Bridges - and for the Mourne region, which could potentially be given a direct link from the Dublin-Belfast motorway. If Narrow Water goes ahead it will emasculate the notion of a proper north-south link rather than enhance it.
Narrow Water = Narrow Thinking.

I don't see what a Narrow water bridge has to do with Newry southern relief road. It is bit like saying that widening the road from Camlough to Bessbrook reduces the need for a Newry bypass. This project is developed by Louth and will be largely funded by EU sources, probably a fund for tourist infrastructure, and will have feck all work needed on the northern side.   The relief road will have to stand on its own merits.

Yes of course it will have to stand on its own merits.
Now, weigh those merits against the merits of a twiddly dee touristy bridge from Narrow Water onto the Omeath dirt track. Is it just becase the lough is narrowest at that location, it will look pretty, and it will compensate for the fact that it is no longer viable to run a wee touristy boat from the Point to the land that time forgot?
I am all for local initiatives but is there not also a bigger picture? Just dont expect the Shinners to see or promote anything with true vision -  while the SDLP have long abandonded their progressive  outlook as they continue to play catch-up with the other shower.

QuoteNow, weigh those merits against the merits of a twiddly dee touristy bridge from Narrow Water onto the Omeath dirt track. Is it just becase the lough is narrowest at that location, it will look pretty, and it will compensate for the fact that it is no longer viable to run a wee touristy boat from the Point to the land that time forgot?
I am all for local initiatives but is there not also a bigger picture? Just dont expect the Shinners to see or promote anything with true vision -  while the SDLP have long abandonded their progressive  outlook as they continue to play catch-up with the other shower.

Oddly enough they call this place Narrow Water, probably something to do with the width of the Lough. And I don't see what the Shinners have to do with it, they don't have a majority on Louth County council and in case this bridge has been planned since they regarded Narrow Water as a convenient place to detonate bombs.

As I said, they can demolish Dromalane and build a ten lane road if they wish, that is a separate issue.

A connecting road over the mountain is a non starter, it may have been an option a decade ago, but not in the current economic climate. Upgrading the road from Cornamucklagh (Daveys Pub) to the main Greenore/Dundalk Rd (R173) will be necessary, most of the upgrades on the R173 have been completed.

An announcement about funding for the Narrow Water bridge project is imminent. Sources say the funding bodies decision to turn down Warrenpoint marina's application could indicate that the Narrow Water bridge application will get the cash and indications look good.
It is understood the SEUPB will meet on Wednesday to rubber stamp any decision they have made about Narrow Water bridge and inform Louth Co. Co on Thursday.

good stuff. this will take the docks southbound traffic away from newry and also make the warrenpoint ferry terminal a much more attractive facility for frieght. maybe a few more jobs could follow

Quote from: lawnseed on October 23, 2012, 08:56:25 PM
good stuff. this will take the docks southbound traffic away from newry and also make the warrenpoint ferry terminal a much more attractive facility for frieght. maybe a few more jobs could follow

I doubt not. My understanding is that it is to have a weight restriction to stop that very thing happening. Its folly but the lobby is coming from Warrenpoint and if it is to be provided at the expense on the Warrenpoint Marina then the people of Warrenpoint deserve everything they get

It won't help Warrenpoint Port at all. In fact, if it is built they will never build the bridge the area really needs.

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 23, 2012, 09:07:49 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on October 23, 2012, 08:56:25 PM
good stuff. this will take the docks southbound traffic away from newry and also make the warrenpoint ferry terminal a much more attractive facility for frieght. maybe a few more jobs could follow

I doubt not. My understanding is that it is to have a weight restriction to stop that very thing happening. Its folly but the lobby is coming from Warrenpoint and if it is to be provided at the expense on the Warrenpoint Marina then the people of Warrenpoint deserve everything they get

good for fuk all then. they'd be better with a pontoon bridge

Indeed!!

Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2012, 09:31:42 AM

QuoteThis is an ego project being contested on narrow political grounds between selfishSDLP imterests & Shinner politicos. Has any cost-benefit analysis been done? I doubt it.. A Newry southern relief road is not just an alternative - it is an essential part of the north-south infranstructure, both for Nerwy and the bottlencks that are Kilorey Street & Dublin Bridges - and for the Mourne region, which could potentially be given a direct link from the Dublin-Belfast motorway. If Narrow Water goes ahead it will emasculate the notion of a proper north-south link rather than enhance it.
Narrow Water = Narrow Thinking.

I don't see what a Narrow water bridge has to do with Newry southern relief road. It is bit like saying that widening the road from Camlough to Bessbrook reduces the need for a Newry bypass. This project is developed by Louth and will be largely funded by EU sources, probably a fund for tourist infrastructure, and will have feck all work needed on the northern side.   The relief road will have to stand on its own merits.

You're wrong. Its a bit like saying if we widen Chancellors Road and the Newry to Bessbrook Road then we don't need the bypass.

The Southern Relief Road stands on its own merits as things stand, the Narrow Water Bridge doesn't, but once its built it will scupper any chances of getting the investment needed for the Southern Relief Road.

We own 23 acres between Newry & the Point..........................hell yeah we want the bridge  :)

The European Union has said it will give 17.4m euro to fund a new bridge to be built at Narrow Water between County Louth and County Down.

The single lane cable bridge will be 660 metres long and could be open by 2015.

Planning permission has been granted by authorities on both sides of the border.

The Special EU Programmes Body said the money was from the EU's Interreg IVa programme.

The SEUPB said that its steering committee for the project approved the money at a meeting on Wednesday.

"However, given the high value of funding sought, project approval is also dependent upon the financial support provided by the relevant accountable departments, which include the Department of Finance and Personnel in Northern Ireland and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport in Ireland," a spokesperson said.

Sinn Fein assembly member Caitriona Ruane said the bridge will transform the fortunes of South Down.

"This bridge has the potential to open up the entire South Down and Louth area for tourism and business," she said.

http://www.pleanala.ie/news/HA0037.htm

Interesting reading here for anyone with time on thier hands  :P

I see the golf club have concerns about traffic congestion!  Im sure they won't mind the extra trade!

There won't be much traffic seeing as it's single lane. Does it run north to south or the other way around?

Quote from: Lecale2 on October 24, 2012, 04:43:19 PM
There won't be much traffic seeing as it's single lane. Does it run north to south or the other way around?

Are you serious?!

QuoteDoes it run north to south or the other way around?

Brilliant

It actually runs east/west

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 24, 2012, 05:01:30 PM

Quote from: Lecale2 on October 24, 2012, 04:43:19 PM
There won't be much traffic seeing as it's single lane. Does it run north to south or the other way around?

Are you serious?!

This guy once convinced a lad that the Ballymena Ring Road was named after Christy Ring, so what do you think?

QuoteIt actually runs east/west

That's only when the bridge is open!

Video of how Narrow Water Bridge will look.

http://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Louth_County_Council/Latest_News/Narrow_Water_Bridge1.wmv

Looks nice. But it also looks like a 2-lane bridge.

No need for it. Both governments say they have no money but can throw millions into this??? Doesnt add up imo

Quote from: here comes 6 on October 28, 2012, 07:02:47 AM
No need for it. Both governments say they have no money but can throw millions into this??? Doesnt add up imo

The money is coming from the EU.

it just gets better.. a bridge to a ferryport that doesnt carry lorries (warrenpoint) and a motorway to a port costing 80 million where lorries and ferries have stopped using(larne) theres no shortage of money when it comes to follies

Separate story but for want of somewhere else to post it, The Strangford ferry service is losing  about £1.5m annually.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20332535

At €17m for a 660m bridge it would surely make financial sense for DRD to bridge Strangford lough. It would pay for itself in 10-12 years.

Quote from: LeoMc on November 15, 2012, 01:14:56 PM
Separate story but for want of somewhere else to post it, The Strangford ferry service is losing  about £1.5m annually.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20332535

At €17m for a 660m bridge it would surely make financial sense for DRD to bridge Strangford lough. It would pay for itself in 10-12 years.

The talk of a bridge spanning strangford lough has been on the go for years, but no one is prepared to take the initial hit of a bridge in fairly deep water and the infrastructure out to it as the narrowest point is a mile or so out of Portaferry, crossing over not far from Kilclief's pitch.

It's easier to gurn about the £1.5m a year losses than to actually do anything about it.

As for the Ferries themselves, if they'd get the employees to lift all the fares rather than turn a blind eye to some of their buddies and regular users and sort out the new ferry which they bought a few years back but is out of service more often than not.

Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
We own 23 acres between Newry & the Point..........................hell yeah we want the bridge  :)

It would have been better if you owned 23 acres between Newry and Carlingford, that's where all the traffic will be going.

Northern Ireland's First Minister Peter Robinson has requested an investigation into the decision to grant European funding for the Narrow Water bridge scheme.

Last month, the European Union said it would give 17.4m euros to fund the single-lane cable bridge.

It will run between County Louth and County Down.

The bridge will be 660 metres long and could be open by 2015.

Planning permission has been granted by authorities on both sides of the Irish border.

Mr Robinson said: "We have money available for infrastructure projects and the case was made, very strongly, that these have to be to the infrastructure projects that come out at the top of the list and not what some people were able to choose that weren't even on it."

The DUP leader has also rejected claims by South Down MP Margaret Ritchie that he wanted money funnelled away from North-South infrastructure schemes towards community projects involving former loyalist paramilitaries.

Earlier this week, the former SDLP leader claimed that Mr Robinson wanted money diverted for community projects for loyalists because loyalist paramilitaries were "getting restless".

She told MPs he had complained to the Irish government about the matter.

"As far as the working class Protestant areas go, I do want to see them getting more funding because I do think they are getting a thoroughly bad deal at the present time and I will continue to argue for that, Margaret Ritchie or not," Mr Robinson added

I'd say he would approve the building of a 10 foot wall all along the border, to try and keep Norn Iron away from the Republic.

And what's the odds there will conveniently, be some "dissident activity" around the Armagh/Louth border in the near future, so that Robinson and the likes can turn down the building of this bridge, due to security issues. It usually does conveniently rear it's head when needed, to further the Nazi agenda.

Meaningless soundbites for the backwoodsmen. Robinson can do nothing about the bridge and he knows it.

and if the dissies get going right the brits can blow the bridge up..

good chance to finally bring sam over to border into down instead of armagh all they need is a team

A proposed cross-border car ferry linking Down and Louth could provide a €10m a year boost for the counties, an economic study has predicted.

The service from Greencastle in Northern Ireland across Carlingford Lough to Greenore in the Republic of Ireland would create 24 direct jobs and create and sustain 300 additional jobs in the wider area, according to consultants who conducted an economic impact assessment.

The research was commissioned by the private sector backers behind the project.

The ferry route, which is close to the mouth of the lough, could be operating before the planned Narrow Water bridge is opened further up the waterway.

The Carlingford Ferries consortium behind the project is made up of three families from Limerick and Clare with previous experience in the car ferry industry in the Shannon region.

Complementing the new bridge, the investors believe it would create a circular tourism route between the Mourne region and the Cooley Peninsula.

As well as the economic survey, the developers have also commissioned an environmental impact assessment as well as engaging with local communities.

They hope to submit proposals to the planning authorities both sides of the border early next year with the aim of getting the service running within 12 months.

Paul O'Sullivan of Carlingford Ferries said: "We have several decades of experience in the ferry industry and have been working on this project for almost six years.

"We have already made a significant investment in progressing it to this stage.

"This project would have a major impact on the cross-border tourism potential of the iconic and outstandingly beautiful Mournes-Cooley region.

"It is important to us that we continue to develop this project in an inclusive manner in harmony with the local communities.

"The announcement of funding and planning for a bridge at Narrow Water gives this project renewed vigour.

"Tourists in particular, would have the option to complete a circular 35 mile round trip of the area and local people for the first time could enjoy the novelty of crossing the border at two different points on the water by car.

"We have experience of managing car ferries in other parts of Ireland and we believe that this link between Greencastle and Greenore would be a massive boost for the area.

"We are investing private funding in the project and hope to work through final plans in the coming months and submit planning applications in the first quarter of 2013."

I heard the Greencastle folk don't want the ferry service, and have put up signs in the area saying so.

A ferry service available to the Greencastles in counties Donegsl and Down. I demand one for us in Co. Tyrone!

In my youth,there was a regular ferry service (although confined to foot passengers as no one owned a fecking car when I was young) between Omeath and Warrenpoint.Surely this route would be the optimum one available for a new ferry service across Carlingford Lough

Quote from: T Fearon on December 27, 2012, 09:25:09 PM
In my youth,there was a regular ferry service (although confined to foot passengers as no one owned a fecking car when I was young) between Omeath and Warrenpoint.Surely this route would be the optimum one available for a new ferry service across Carlingford Lough

There was a summer ferry between those said places in recent years. Not 100% if it's still running, but it was a year or two ago.

A ferry from Omeath to Warrenpoint wouldn't compete well with a bridge.

The proposed ferry would have the beneficial effect of bringing Kilkeel closer to Dublin!

Yes... If Margaret Ritchie agrees to jump off it while holding one of those big heavy things blacksmiths use

Is that after she uses the blacksmith implement on Alisdair Mc Donnell?

Bridge order

http://www.drdni.gov.uk/index/public...htm?docid=8819

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:20:35 PM

Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
We own 23 acres between Newry & the Point..........................hell yeah we want the bridge  :)

It would have been better if you owned 23 acres between Newry and Carlingford, that's where all the traffic will be going.

Really?  :P

Residuals will be plenty good enough for me.  ;)

Sammy says YES  :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22694624

Funding for a new £14m cross-border bridge has been given the go-ahead by Finance Minister Sammy Wilson.

The Narrow Water bridge is to link the counties of Down and Louth across Carlingford Lough.

The scheme will be subject to various conditions in relation to its upkeep by Newry and Mourne Council as well as Louth County Council.

The bridge is to be 660 metres (2,165 feet) long across the Newry river channel.

"Funding of £14m for the Narrow Water bridge has now been given approval subject to clarification on technical conditions applicable to the Letter of Offer," Mr Wilson said.

"As with any project offer, the Letter of Offer for the Narrow Water bridge Project will include a number of important conditions.

"One such condition is a commitment by Louth County Council that they will have sole responsibility for any cost overruns associated within the eligible spend timeframe and in the event that the project would extend outside this period.

"Louth County Council shall also meet all the maintenance and associated costs related to the upkeep of the bridge and its service area."

The project is supported under the EU's INTERREG IVA programme.

A spokesperson for the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB) said: "The SEUPB has received official confirmation from the Department of Finance and Personnel that financial support will be made available for the Narrow Water Bridge project.

"This confirmation will enable the SEUPB to issue a letter of offer of 17,369,210 euros under the EU's INTERREG IVA Programme, to the lead partner of the project, East Border Region."

The chairman of East Border Region, Councillor Gerald Mallon, welcomed Mr Wilson's decision to approve the project.

"The Narrow Water bridge is a genuinely symbolic cross border project providing the first bridge linking Ireland and Northern Ireland and will provide a catalyst for both economic development and tourism within the region," he said.

"The bridge development will provide much needed jobs in the construction sector in the short term and will undoubtedly enhance the tourism potential of the region as it acts as a gateway to the Mournes and Cooley mountains."

South Down MP Margaret Ritchie, of the SDLP, said the project was one of the most important north-south projects to be brought forward.

"The project is a shining example of how far we have come as a community and in our north-south relations," she said.

"It also symbolises the future of our economy, which is in our tourism product, and this is now something, thanks to the peace process that we can export worldwide."

Sinn Fein MLA Caitriona Ruane said the announcement had the potential to transform the economic prospects of the entire region.

There have been some silly ego projects on both sides of the border in recent years - all "politically" motivated - but this one takes the biscuit. In the face of a crying need for a southern ring around Newry to bypass the chronic bottleneck that is Kilmorey Street / Dublin Road and its daily congestion by trucks heading for the Warrenpoint port & Mourne hinterland, we are pouring millions into a fancy-dan bridge to/from the Omeath dirt-track that will not handle any commercial trafic! Nor will it attract any significant "southern" tourists north because as soon as they get to Carlingford they will have no interest in experiencing the death-rattle that is Omeath on the way to the north. On the other hand the Narrow Minded bridge will be of benefit to those from the Point who want to get to the Quays in a hurry o the weekend.
Lets call it the Kit Kat bridge - you know the advert - cant sing, look awful - you will go far. Daft.

QuoteThere have been some silly ego projects on both sides of the border in recent years - all "politically" motivated - but this one takes the biscuit. In the face of a crying need for a southern ring around Newry to bypass the chronic bottleneck that is Kilmorey Street / Dublin Road and its daily congestion by trucks heading for the Warrenpoint port & Mourne hinterland, we are pouring millions into a fancy-dan bridge to/from the Omeath dirt-track that will not handle any commercial trafic! Nor will it attract any significant "southern" tourists north because as soon as they get to Carlingford they will have no interest in experiencing the death-rattle that is Omeath on the way to the north. On the other hand the Narrow Minded bridge will be of benefit to those from the Point who want to get to the Quays in a hurry o the weekend.

I've never heard such bollix. This entire project costs 10% of any southern ring of Newry and is almost completely funded from EU tourism funds, funds that are simply not available for a ring road for Newry. The Newry southern link won't be built for 20 years, this project is not related to it one way or the other. I don't see why it should not attract tourists who want to visit South Down, who can go there without having to trail through Newry.

Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2013, 11:37:39 PM

QuoteThere have been some silly ego projects on both sides of the border in recent years - all "politically" motivated - but this one takes the biscuit. In the face of a crying need for a southern ring around Newry to bypass the chronic bottleneck that is Kilmorey Street / Dublin Road and its daily congestion by trucks heading for the Warrenpoint port & Mourne hinterland, we are pouring millions into a fancy-dan bridge to/from the Omeath dirt-track that will not handle any commercial trafic! Nor will it attract any significant "southern" tourists north because as soon as they get to Carlingford they will have no interest in experiencing the death-rattle that is Omeath on the way to the north. On the other hand the Narrow Minded bridge will be of benefit to those from the Point who want to get to the Quays in a hurry o the weekend.

I've never heard such bollix. This entire project costs 10% of any southern ring of Newry and is almost completely funded from EU tourism funds, funds that are simply not available for a ring road for Newry. The Newry southern link won't be built for 20 years, this project is not related to it one way or the other. I don't see why it should not attract tourists who want to visit South Down, who can go there without having to trail through Newry.

I agree and would like to see the bridge built asap, but if it is left to a unionist Danny Kennedy for the final decision, then I'm not hopeful.

The bridge is essentially to facilitate visitors passing between the Cooley and Mourne scenic areas, who, with the best will in the world, are unlikely to be tempted into Newry. It will cost the northern tax payer less than £3m, which it is likely to recoup from the increased tourist trade fairly quickly, and it will be of huge benefit to the struggling construction industry in the short term. The link from Omeath to Newry is scheduled to be upgraded as well, and there is nothing to prevent the separate case for road improvements around Newry from being pursued. Sinn Fein and the SDLP are obviously strongly in favour of the bridge, the DUP has agreed through Sammy Wilson and the Ulster Unionists are likely to follow with Danny Kennedy. There are very few projects capable of getting the backing of all our main political parties, and even fewer initiatives from Stormont which ever see the light of day, but you cannot keep everyone happy.

Quote from: Orior on May 28, 2013, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2013, 11:37:39 PM

QuoteThere have been some silly ego projects on both sides of the border in recent years - all "politically" motivated - but this one takes the biscuit. In the face of a crying need for a southern ring around Newry to bypass the chronic bottleneck that is Kilmorey Street / Dublin Road and its daily congestion by trucks heading for the Warrenpoint port & Mourne hinterland, we are pouring millions into a fancy-dan bridge to/from the Omeath dirt-track that will not handle any commercial trafic! Nor will it attract any significant "southern" tourists north because as soon as they get to Carlingford they will have no interest in experiencing the death-rattle that is Omeath on the way to the north. On the other hand the Narrow Minded bridge will be of benefit to those from the Point who want to get to the Quays in a hurry o the weekend.

I've never heard such bollix. This entire project costs 10% of any southern ring of Newry and is almost completely funded from EU tourism funds, funds that are simply not available for a ring road for Newry. The Newry southern link won't be built for 20 years, this project is not related to it one way or the other. I don't see why it should not attract tourists who want to visit South Down, who can go there without having to trail through Newry.

I agree and would like to see the bridge built asap, but if it is left to a unionist Danny Kennedy for the final decision, then I'm not hopeful.

We know all about that in the West.

This is brilliant -

MLA: name Narrow Water bridge after Parachute Regiment

The bridge will span the Newry River at Narrow Water

An Ulster Unionist MLA has said the Narrow Water bridge should be called the Parachute Regiment Bridge.
Sam Gardiner, MLA for Upper Bann but originally from Lurgan, County Armagh, said it should be "named after the 18 members of the Parachute Regiment who were murdered there by the IRA."

Mr Gardiner said although he thought building the bridge was unnecessary the name would be a fitting tribute.

The bridge will link County Down and County Louth across Carlingford Lough.

Mr Gardiner said the bridge is "the product of the kind of crazy economics and white elephant projects which Sinn Fein are given to".


"It already seems that a play park in Newry is to be called after a convicted IRA terrorist and hunger striker Raymond McCreesh," he said.

"To name the new Narrow Water bridge after the Parachute Regiment would go some way to redressing the offence the McCreesh decision by Newry Council caused the unionist community across Northern Ireland."

Mr Gardiner said that the bridge was not what Northern Ireland's economy needed.

"There is a perfectly good road between Belfast and Dublin a few miles away and the local economy on both sides of the border there does not justify such a costly infrastructural project at this time of cutbacks.

"Still, this is the Sinn Fein technique. "

In 1979, an IRA ambush killed 18 Parachute Regiment soldiers in two explosions at Narrow Water Castle.

Quote"There is a perfectly good road between Belfast and Dublin a few miles away

Oh right. So any proposed improvement in Upper Bann can be denied on the basis that there is a perfectly good M1 a few miles away.

Back in reality, submissions have closed for the Bridge order, Danny Kennedy now has to decide to hold an enquiry or not.

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2013, 02:28:02 PM
This is brilliant -

MLA: name Narrow Water bridge after Parachute Regiment

The bridge will span the Newry River at Narrow Water

An Ulster Unionist MLA has said the Narrow Water bridge should be called the Parachute Regiment Bridge.
Sam Gardiner, MLA for Upper Bann but originally from Lurgan, County Armagh, said it should be "named after the 18 members of the Parachute Regiment who were murdered there by the IRA."

Mr Gardiner said although he thought building the bridge was unnecessary the name would be a fitting tribute.

The bridge will link County Down and County Louth across Carlingford Lough.

Mr Gardiner said the bridge is "the product of the kind of crazy economics and white elephant projects which Sinn Fein are given to".


"It already seems that a play park in Newry is to be called after a convicted IRA terrorist and hunger striker Raymond McCreesh," he said.

"To name the new Narrow Water bridge after the Parachute Regiment would go some way to redressing the offence the McCreesh decision by Newry Council caused the unionist community across Northern Ireland."

Mr Gardiner said that the bridge was not what Northern Ireland's economy needed.

"There is a perfectly good road between Belfast and Dublin a few miles away and the local economy on both sides of the border there does not justify such a costly infrastructural project at this time of cutbacks.

"Still, this is the Sinn Fein technique. "

In 1979, an IRA ambush killed 18 Parachute Regiment soldiers in two explosions at Narrow Water Castle.

Brilliant!

"To name the new Narrow Water bridge after the Parachute Regiment would go some way to redressing the offence the McCreesh decision by Newry Council caused the unionist community across Northern Ireland."

More reaching out. They way to respond to being offended is to offend back. An eye for an eye, a slight for a slight, even if we all end up blind and ... eh ... slighter.

Would you expect anything different from an irrelevant Unionist dinosaur?

Their utter stupidity and inability to think rationally beggars belief sometimes all the time.

For him to equate the naming of this bridge after a gung-ho murdering British military unit with that of a park in a republican area after McCreesh is laughable.

Speaks volumes for the disregard Unionists have towards the role the army they glorify so much had in killing innocent people here. All for a few petty political points. dickhead.

Quote from: qubdub on June 05, 2013, 04:16:08 PM
For him to equate the naming of this bridge after a gung-ho murdering British military unit with that of a park in a republican area after McCreesh is laughable.

That's not really the issue. After all, McCreesh was convicted of attempted murder himself.

What is implied here is that the naming of the park was inappropriate (on which i'd agree), but that this naming of the bridge would even the score. Essentially that 'two wrongs' will make a 'right'.

  ;D ;D

but if it is left to a unionist Danny Kennedy for the final decision, then I'm not hopeful

I can say for certain that as of last week he said "yes" in private - Of course he may change his mind - If the bridge is built it will help the local building business - There will be a hotel built in Kilkeel that will do the same, plus provide long term employment to an area that has seen serious emigration

The same Mr Kennedy has just been on the BBC news at the opening of a new road in Fermanagh. He had to provide an extra £3m to have it ready for the G8 summit, I am sure he thinks it was value for money. Hopefully he will have the same view on the Narrow Water bridge.

Can't we have a poll for the name of the new bridge.

I favour:

"18 and Montbatten, feck 1690, I want a replay, reaching across the divide" bridge

Plans to build the bridge were shelved today. Tenders came in much higher than expected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23246878

Quote"On Tuesday, Louth County Council said tenders it had received from construction companies for the project had ranged from 26m euros (£22.4m) to 40m euros (£34.5m).

"Having examined all of the tenders received from contractors competing to build the bridge, it is clear that their estimates of the cost of construction are considerably higher than the figures we have been working with to date," the council said in a statement. "

So where did their original numbers come from. Did they get any quotes from contractors before putting the plan together?

Quote from: dec on July 09, 2013, 04:39:30 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23246878

Quote"On Tuesday, Louth County Council said tenders it had received from construction companies for the project had ranged from 26m euros (£22.4m) to 40m euros (£34.5m).

"Having examined all of the tenders received from contractors competing to build the bridge, it is clear that their estimates of the cost of construction are considerably higher than the figures we have been working with to date," the council said in a statement. "

So where did their original numbers come from. Did they get any quotes from contractors before putting the plan together?

Picked them out of their arses, I'd guess! ;D

On any building project you would normally get an estimate of costs from a surveyor or architect.

FFS.

Incidentally a planning application for a ferry service between Greencastle and Greenore was recently submitted to Louth Co. Co.

Who quoted for the construction work,RedSky?

http://destinationnewry.com/videos/margaret-ritchie-responds-to-the-narrow-water-bridge-postponement/ (http://destinationnewry.com/videos/margaret-ritchie-responds-to-the-narrow-water-bridge-postponement/)

Local MP calls "summit" to find the millions needed to complete the funding package.

Can anyone from a construction or engineering background explain why it costs £20m+ to put a bridge across such a narrow stretch of water? It's flat ground, no rezoning is required, the water is hardly deep or choppy.

I don't know my arse from my elbow here but there's no way every chasm in America would have got a road built over it if that's the going rate.

I'd say a less fancy bridge could be built within budget.

Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2013, 10:14:53 PM
I'd say a less fancy bridge could be built within budget.

Maybe but that's not wnat they have all the approvals for.

Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2013, 09:22:01 PM
I don't know my arse from my elbow here but there's no way every chasm in America would have got a road built over it if that's the going rate.

In America they have a "can do" attitude where as here we have to have meeting after meeting about the square root of feck all. The planning process cost a few hundred thousand alone, that was for Louth Co Co to grant themselves planning permission.

Too many snouts in the trough.

15 million on consultation, backhanders, bureaucracy and 5 mill on construction.

Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2013, 09:22:01 PM
Can anyone from a construction or engineering background explain why it costs £20m+ to put a bridge across such a narrow stretch of water? It's flat ground, no rezoning is required, the water is hardly deep or choppy.

I don't know my arse from my elbow here but there's no way every chasm in America would have got a road built over it if that's the going rate.

Im a Construction Manager for a large infrastructure construction company so I'll give it a go Wobbler

Firstly I'd imagine that this is a Design and construct contract, which means the client says theres the site,go and do all the necessary site investigations ( geotechnical,environmental, heritage etc etc) get something designed that meets current standards and bring it back to us, we'll give the OK ,you build it, we'll pay you, job done.

However in the real world its not that simple, when the real world involves dealing with two separate bodies of government and their faceless bureaucrats and technocrats then the cost will explode.

The undoubted delays that the double pronged technocrats will cause would have to be costed into any estimate, the undoubted associated environmental and heritage issues that will develop and thus cause delays will have to be costed into any estimate.

When the delays caused by technocrats,environmentalists, heritage  etc are overcome the next problem is to get the actual design of the bridge and approach roads approved by each local authority in turn, more delays on the horizon, delays = money that has to be costed into any estimate.
Essentially its the land of a thousand stakeholders, nothing will move quickly, the contractor is stuck at the bottom trying to deal with this bureaucratic nightmare and must protect his interests, contractors are after all, simply there to make profit.

Contracting is in its essence all about managing risk, forget about health and safety risks, this is pounds shillings and pence risk pure and simple. The way you manage that risk is to allow a suitable number of pounds shillings and pence in your tender to cover the risk that the multiple stakeholders delay your works.

A good question to ask the contractors that priced the job would be how much money they have in their risk pot, they will never tell you of course but i would imagine its a good whack

Thanks Subbie.

Not much different to quoting a public sector website then!

Quote from: Lecale2 on July 09, 2013, 08:41:36 PM
http://destinationnewry.com/videos/margaret-ritchie-responds-to-the-narrow-water-bridge-postponement/ (http://destinationnewry.com/videos/margaret-ritchie-responds-to-the-narrow-water-bridge-postponement/)

Local MP calls "summit" to find the millions needed to complete the funding package.

It would answer Marge better to campaign for a bridge over strangford lough.

Summit will have to happen very quickly. I see Danny Kennedy is already looking for "other projects" to retain the EU portion of the money earmarked for this project.

Incidentally, has the Border area's smuggling community not been asked for a contribution, as they are likely to be one of the main beneficiaries?

Quote from: T Fearon on July 10, 2013, 03:03:01 PM
Incidentally, has the Border area's smuggling community not been asked for a contribution, as they are likely to be one of the main beneficiaries?

This bridge was not big enough for diesel tankers.
Anyhow the nice people of Warrenpoint and Rostrevor don't do anything as common as smuggling, they use alternative sources of imports.

Unionist's don't want this bridge because of the symbolism attached. Gerry and Caitriona would need to take down the posters claiming they delivered it, unless they can get a few oul northern bank notes back into circulation.

QuoteGerry and Caitriona would need to take down the posters claiming they delivered it, unless they can get a few oul northern bank notes back into circulation.

They could hire an engineer with a less expensive vision.

Quote from: The Subbie on July 10, 2013, 03:29:01 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2013, 09:22:01 PM
Can anyone from a construction or engineering background explain why it costs £20m+ to put a bridge across such a narrow stretch of water? It's flat ground, no rezoning is required, the water is hardly deep or choppy.

I don't know my arse from my elbow here but there's no way every chasm in America would have got a road built over it if that's the going rate.

Im a Construction Manager for a large infrastructure construction company so I'll give it a go Wobbler

Firstly I'd imagine that this is a Design and construct contract, which means the client says theres the site,go and do all the necessary site investigations ( geotechnical,environmental, heritage etc etc) get something designed that meets current standards and bring it back to us, we'll give the OK ,you build it, we'll pay you, job done.

However in the real world its not that simple, when the real world involves dealing with two separate bodies of government and their faceless bureaucrats and technocrats then the cost will explode.

The undoubted delays that the double pronged technocrats will cause would have to be costed into any estimate, the undoubted associated environmental and heritage issues that will develop and thus cause delays will have to be costed into any estimate.

When the delays caused by technocrats,environmentalists, heritage  etc are overcome the next problem is to get the actual design of the bridge and approach roads approved by each local authority in turn, more delays on the horizon, delays = money that has to be costed into any estimate.
Essentially its the land of a thousand stakeholders, nothing will move quickly, the contractor is stuck at the bottom trying to deal with this bureaucratic nightmare and must protect his interests, contractors are after all, simply there to make profit.

Contracting is in its essence all about managing risk, forget about health and safety risks, this is pounds shillings and pence risk pure and simple. The way you manage that risk is to allow a suitable number of pounds shillings and pence in your tender to cover the risk that the multiple stakeholders delay your works.

A good question to ask the contractors that priced the job would be how much money they have in their risk pot, they will never tell you of course but i would imagine its a good whack

The Subbie,

Your not far off the mark with the majority of your reasoning, although a full SI was carried out and included in the Works Information. Another significant cost factor is that the client was Louth County Council using the Public Works Contract and not DRD Roads Service using an NEC Contract.

Not convinced it will get the volume of traffic to justify its cost...

Quote from: firestarter on July 12, 2013, 09:02:50 AM
Not convinced it will get the volume of traffic to justify its cost...

It's not about the volume of traffic, it's more symbolic than anything else. There is no great need to go to Omeath, there is nothing there, but the bridge would open up the area for tourism and people would come to the area just to cross, what would be the first bridge to be built between north and south since partition. It is simply a case of build it and they will come.

http://www.irishnews.com/business/car-ferry-service-moves-step-closer-1266499

As someone said earlier, ferry form Greencastle to Greenore may go ahead now.

Quote from: oakleafgael on July 11, 2013, 04:47:03 PM

Quote from: The Subbie on July 10, 2013, 03:29:01 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2013, 09:22:01 PM
Can anyone from a construction or engineering background explain why it costs £20m+ to put a bridge across such a narrow stretch of water? It's flat ground, no rezoning is required, the water is hardly deep or choppy.

I don't know my arse from my elbow here but there's no way every chasm in America would have got a road built over it if that's the going rate.

Im a Construction Manager for a large infrastructure construction company so I'll give it a go Wobbler

Firstly I'd imagine that this is a Design and construct contract, which means the client says theres the site,go and do all the necessary site investigations ( geotechnical,environmental, heritage etc etc) get something designed that meets current standards and bring it back to us, we'll give the OK ,you build it, we'll pay you, job done.

However in the real world its not that simple, when the real world involves dealing with two separate bodies of government and their faceless bureaucrats and technocrats then the cost will explode.

The undoubted delays that the double pronged technocrats will cause would have to be costed into any estimate, the undoubted associated environmental and heritage issues that will develop and thus cause delays will have to be costed into any estimate.

When the delays caused by technocrats,environmentalists, heritage  etc are overcome the next problem is to get the actual design of the bridge and approach roads approved by each local authority in turn, more delays on the horizon, delays = money that has to be costed into any estimate.
Essentially its the land of a thousand stakeholders, nothing will move quickly, the contractor is stuck at the bottom trying to deal with this bureaucratic nightmare and must protect his interests, contractors are after all, simply there to make profit.

Contracting is in its essence all about managing risk, forget about health and safety risks, this is pounds shillings and pence risk pure and simple. The way you manage that risk is to allow a suitable number of pounds shillings and pence in your tender to cover the risk that the multiple stakeholders delay your works.

A good question to ask the contractors that priced the job would be how much money they have in their risk pot, they will never tell you of course but i would imagine its a good whack

The Subbie,

Your not far off the mark with the majority of your reasoning, although a full SI was carried out and included in the Works Information. Another significant cost factor is that the client was Louth County Council using the Public Works Contract and not DRD Roads Service using an NEC Contract.

Public works contract is not "contractor friendly" at all. The NEC contract is easier to get around right enough.

The full SI been carried out would worry me depending on who carried it out, there have been firms I know off that have been "creative" in their descriptions of what they found down there and at what depth i.e they went to the geological survey of Ireland in Beggars Bush and got the geological maps for a particular area and done a "desktop" survey, went to the site and lets just say the drilling,boreholes and slit trenches would have been a quick operation, followed by an even quicker report been issued and even quicker again by the invoice sent out!

The bigger issue here is that when Louth CoCo did their initial estimate they obviously got the lads in the office to do it, probably didn't go near a proper QS firm that would be all over current rates etc etc.

To my mind its a massive massive fail on Louth Co Co's behalf, Maybe I'm biased but if someone put a Co Council engineers estimate in front of me and a contractors estimate in front of me and asked me which one was gonna be the closest to reality I'd be going with the contractors all day long.

Interesting that they did do a Site investigation tho, thanks Oakleaf.

 

Louth County Council Cathaoirleach welcomes Bridge Order for Narrow Water Bridge and commits to sparing no effort to see the project proceed

Cllr Declan Breathnach, Cathaoirleach, Louth County Council has welcomed the decision of Mr. Danny Kennedy MLA, Minister for Regional Development (Northern Ireland) to proceed with a Bridge Order for the Narrow Water Bridge connecting counties Louth and Down.

Cllr Breathnach said the decision by Minister Kennedy means that the bridge has cleared a further important milestone. "While we had the announcement earlier this week that the bridge project was 'on hold' given the shortfall between the available funds and the prices quoted during the tendering process, it is still important that we continue the statutory approval process and the Narrow Water Bridge Order (Northern Ireland) 2013 and Newry River (Diversion of Navigable Watercourse and Extinguishment of Public Rights of Navigation) Order (NI) 2013 are both vital in this regard.

"The fact that Mr Kennedy is proceeding in this way without the need for a time-consuming and expensive public inquiry is also to be welcomed."

The Council Cathaoirleach said the onus is now on public representatives and officials to examine every possible avenue to allow the bridge to proceed. "Having navigated the complex approval process in both the Republic and Northern Ireland and won the support of key stakeholders who recognise its huge social and economic potential, it is vital that we now spare no effort to keep this project alive and use all of our creativity and energy to find a solution to the funding issue.

"There is a very robust and carefully thought out rationale for this project and the case for proceeding is arguably stronger in the present economic environment when the positive spin-offs from it would be all the more welcome. To me, this is one of the main missing pieces of the jigsaw that can unlock this entire region's potential and connect people and places as never before. None of us can be blind to the economic realities of today but we can't have a recession in our ambition and vision as well."

The single-carriageway, 195 metres cable-stayed Narrow Water Bridge is designed to connect Cornamucklagh near Omeath, Co Louth with Narrow Water near Warrenpoint, Co Down and the total length of the proposed scheme is 620m.

JOINT STATEMENT FROM THE MAYOR OF NEWRY & MOURNE DISTRICT COUNCIL AND CHAIRMAN OF LOUTH LOCAL AUTHORITIES REGARDING THE NARROW WATER BRIDGE PROJECT ON FRIDAY 26 JULY 2013

Councillor Michael Ruane, Mayor of Newry & Mourne District Council and Councillor Declan Breathnach, Chairman of Louth Local Authorities confirmed that the Louth Newry and Mourne Joint Committee met on Monday 22 July 2013 to discuss the future of the Narrow Water Bridge Project.

At the conclusion of the above mentioned Meeting the Joint Committee agreed to develop an innovative and robust Action Plan to secure the additional €15 million required to ensure the Narrow Water Bridge Project can be completed as per the original timetable.

Senior Officials from both Newry & Mourne and Louth Council were instructed to investigate the possibility of sourcing a cocktail of funding to guarantee the future development of the Narrow Water Bridge and to report back to the Joint Committee as soon as possible. This work is ongoing and positive signals have been received from a number of funding sources.

The Joint Committee acknowledged the letter of offer dated 9th July 2013 from the Special European Union Programme Body totalling €17.4 million which had to be accepted or rejected within 6 weeks.

Councillor Declan Breathnach, Chairman of Louth Local Authorities stated the development of the Narrow Water Bridge was essential for the continued economic revival of the Louth and South Down regions. He continued by calling all Political Groupings to support the future development of the Bridge.

Councillor Michael Ruane, Mayor of Newry & Mourne District Council stated the Narrow Water Bridge has been very high on Newry & Mourne District Council's Capital Programme for a number of years and its development will greatly assist in the growth of tourism, economic regeneration and social relationships in our respective areas. He continued by reinforcing that no stone should be left unturned in the final effort to make the Bridge Project a reality.

Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 12, 2013, 09:35:37 AM

Quote from: firestarter on July 12, 2013, 09:02:50 AM
Not convinced it will get the volume of traffic to justify its cost...

It's not about the volume of traffic, it's more symbolic than anything else. There is no great need to go to Omeath, there is nothing there, but the bridge would open up the area for tourism and people would come to the area just to cross, what would be the first bridge to be built between north and south since partition. It is simply a case of build it and they will come.

I've no doubt it would get the volume of traffic to justify the cost and it's not about symbolism. Lorries from ferries into Warrenpoint, currently hit the bottleneck that is Newry most days. These would use the bridge to go south, linking up with the M1 at the Carrickdale or going via Carlingford to the M1. Likewise it would take all traffic going from south Down (Newcastle, Downpatrick, Castlewellan, Warrenpoint...) to Dublin. It would alleviate the traffic in Newry big time. If it wasn't connecting two jurisdictions, it would have been build a long time ago.

You're right that it would be a massive boost to tourism, particularly in the Mournes. Think of how much more accessible the region would be to Dublin airport, the single biggest entry point in Ireland. And not surprisingly Sammy Wilson frustrated all involved, failing to commit the small portion of the funding required until the 11th hour. And then when the whole thing runs into bother with tenders the usual half wits come out with the 'better used for hospitals and schools line.' This project is a no brainer.

Barbarino, if a series of lorries are going to go over the Omeath/Ravensdale Road, or go through Carlingford, there's two very good reasons not to build the bridge. Some things in life are more important than haulage arriving a whole 5 mins earlier.

I could also be losing the plot here with logistics but why would anyone from Newcastle, Downpatrick or Castlewellan go out of their way to divert to Warrenpoint and sit on back roads over the border, instead of taking the main road to Newry then the motorway to Dundalk? Anyone coming from those directions has no reason even to enter Newry at present.


This bridge is a waste of money unless there's an accompanying relief road over the mountain.

This bridge is not designed for HGVs, indeed it may have a weight restriction. It may well be used by regular motorists to avoid traffic in Newry.

40 years in the pipeline, and we'll probably still be talking about this bridge being built in another 40 years.

They've made a real balls of this project.Going to look very silly handing millions of euro back to EU

I think big Sammy released the funds because he knew it wasn't going to happen.

£10 million though, is it really that much to find, when you think of the cost of the twelfth alone.

Quote from: thewobbler on July 29, 2013, 09:42:57 PM
Barbarino, if a series of lorries are going to go over the Omeath/Ravensdale Road, or go through Carlingford, there's two very good reasons not to build the bridge. Some things in life are more important than haulage arriving a whole 5 mins earlier.

I could also be losing the plot here with logistics but why would anyone from Newcastle, Downpatrick or Castlewellan go out of their way to divert to Warrenpoint and sit on back roads over the border, instead of taking the main road to Newry then the motorway to Dundalk? Anyone coming from those directions has no reason even to enter Newry at present.


This bridge is a waste of money unless there's an accompanying relief road over the mountain.

I agree that there has to be an accompanying relief road to connect the bridge with the M1 and of course HGVs through Carlingford/Omeath isn't on. The accompanying relief road is a next step and shouldn't be used as an argument against the first.

If the current plans don't allow for HGVs it needs to be looked at again. If it takes a few more years to do it right then it should be done. You only have to look at the bypass around Omagh to see an upgrade that needs another upgrade on completion.

Downpatrick/Castlewellan/Newcastle traffic currently goes through Hilltown/Mayobridge/Newry (B8) to get to the M1. The road is totally unfit for the volume of traffic currently using it and major upgrades are required. Newry is a major problem and the bypass hasn't improved matters for traffic from the east. Large volumes of traffic are going through estates with big humps to avoid the town centre.

In the event of the bridge being built, I'd head to Rostrevor/Warrenpoint from Hilltown (about 7 miles to Narrow Water). Work would be needed to divert traffic away from Rostrevor and Warrenpoint town centres, which would probably be more cost effective than the work required on the B8.

Quote from: armaghniac on July 29, 2013, 09:51:42 PM
This bridge is not designed for HGVs, indeed it may have a weight restriction. It may well be used by regular motorists to avoid traffic in Newry.

It actually is designed for HGV's

Is it a bit late for focusing minds ?


European funding for a proposed cross-border bridge that would link counties Down and Louth has been withdrawn.

The Special European Union Programmes Body (SEUPB) had pledged £14.5m (17.4m euro) towards the Narrow Water project.

But it has withdrawn its offer because additional funding had not been found.

South Down MP, the SDLP's Margaret Ritchie, said she was "extremely disappointed" at the announcement.

A SEUPB statement said: "Following comprehensive discussions on the financial viability of the Narrow Water Bridge with the project's lead partner (East Border Region Ltd and Louth County Council), the SEUPB has decided to withdraw the letter of offer. The additional funding required to deliver the project has not been secured."

Ms Ritchie said: "I am extremely disappointed that the SEUPB find themselves in this position of withdrawing funding.

'Political will'

"I am still of the belief that the Narrow Water Bridge would be an important economic stimulus for the local area of south Down and County Louth in terms of job creation, investment and tourism opportunities.

"I would still hope that it would be possible for both governments together to bring forward a scheme for funding this important project."

She also questioned the timing of the announcement, which comes ahead of a meeting on the issue with Northern Ireland's first and deputy first ministers at Stormont on Monday.

Caitríona Ruane, Sinn Féin MLA for South Down, said: "The project can still go ahead in the near future if the political will exists.

"The funding necessary to make the bridge a reality was already in place. All that was needed was a commitment for a 6m euro (£5m) funding package from the Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) and the Department of Transport.

"At a time when the construction industry desperately needs investment this project can create 270 jobs for a relatively small investment by the government."

Focus minds

The proposed development was by Louth County Council in association with Newry and Mourne District Council.

The cable-stayed bridge, 195m (640ft) long, has been in the planning for at least five years and would have connected Cornamucklagh near Omeath, County Louth with Narrow Water near Warrenpoint, County Down, at an historic crossing point.

The entire build would have been 620m (2,040ft) long and it had been hoped it could be open by 2015.

Backers of the scheme claimed it was crucial to the prospects for economic regeneration and reconciliation of the border community in Louth and Down.

Declan Breathnach, chairman of Louth County Council, said the decision should focus minds.

Quote from: All of a Sludden on November 15, 2013, 04:37:46 PM
The Narrow Water Bridge Project is dead in the water. The EU have withdrawn £15 million in funding.

Not surprising. £30+ million on policing fleg protests and orange marches, and stormont can't find a few quid for this project. It's time the whole lot of them useless ballbags in stormont and Dublin were strung up from the lampposts. A shower of useless pricks, the lot of them.

QuoteDeclan Breathnach, chairman of Louth County Council, said the decision should focus minds.

The engineers couldn't price it within an asses roar of what it was going to cost.

I'll come back around in a couple of years, a slightly less elaborate bridge design and a bit more money about.

I don't think the bridge is really needed. That's the problem.