Good news. There was no other obvious candidate and i'm not sure anyone else would be able to get any more out of the available players anyway.
QuoteIt is expected that Seamus McEnaney will remain on as Monaghan football manager for the 2010 season.
The Corduff clubman has spent weeks mulling over his future and it's believed he has now decided to extend his reign for a sixth season.
This year was expected to be McEnaney's last hurrah with the Farney County, but pleas from the players for him to remain in charge is thought to have played a major part in his decision to carry on.
It is not yet known whether trainer Martin McElkennon will also be involved with the county next year.
McEnaney has overseen a major upswing in Monaghan's fortunes since taking charge at the end of 2004, with Division 2 League success in 2005 and an unlucky reverse to Kerry in the 2007 All-Ireland quarter-final, being the high points in his tenure so far.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2009/0819/monaghan.html
I was at clones for the Derry match, by the sounds of most of the monaghan supporters leaving the ground, this is the last thing they wanted.
yay another year of his head in the paper/net/everywhere ::)
Quote from: Mario on August 19, 2009, 06:47:29 PM
I was at clones for the Derry match, by the sounds of most of the monaghan supporters leaving the ground, this is the last thing they wanted.
You must have been listening in to a good few conversations. Or did you hear one person say "that's the end of Banty"?
Any of the ones I talk to from Monaghan seem to like Banty and will be happy to see him stay on.
A true gent of the game.
May his fist be pumping hard and fast next season.
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2009, 06:56:18 PM
A true gent of the game.
May his fist be pumping hard and fast next season.
:-\
:)
Usually happens after a hard fought win Ziggy.
May there be many occasions for it to happen.
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2009, 06:56:18 PM
May his fist be pumping hard and fast next season.
Hmmmm 'interesting' image ....
If he's only staying for one more year it's a bad move for Monaghan all round
Too long in my view. Players get bored listening to one man all the time.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 19, 2009, 09:10:57 PM
Too long in my view. Players get bored listening to one man all the time.
Apparently pleas from the players had a major part in his decision. Anyway, swapping managers about doesn't seem to have waves a magic wand over the fortunes of other counties. :P
Furthermore, I believe that Mickey Harte is the country's longest serving manager.
thought nudie hughes was looking the post going by his article in last weeks gaelic life,assumed he left harps for this job ;)
Harte is in his 7th season, his county career almost reflects his friend Brian Cody.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 19, 2009, 09:10:57 PM
Too long in my view. Players get bored listening to one man all the time.
The players pleaded for him to stay on.
Some attention spans differ.
Banty is very likeable. Loves the game and has given a lot to the game. A lot of people myself included thought that he'd pack it in but he wants another rattle. His call.
Quote from: orangeman on August 20, 2009, 04:08:40 AM
Banty is very likeable. Loves the game and has given a lot to the game. A lot of people myself included thought that he'd pack it in but he wants another rattle. His call.
Loves the limelight me thinks... good for business too.
We have argued here whether Monaghan have been successful in his time as manager and some posters come back with the argument of Monaghan being a small county and that they have had "relative success". However, the Monaghan set-up under Banty hasn't been designed for relative success it has been very professional and put in place for "real success". Given that after five years there has been no real success I would say he has failed. There has been a lot of money pumped into Monaghan football and maybe Banty deserves credit for that, but with the exception of a few individuals having lined their pockets nicely out of the project, there has been precious little to show for his five years in charge. Yes they have progressed, but they haven't been successful.
Quote from: irunthev on August 20, 2009, 08:49:34 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 20, 2009, 04:08:40 AM
Banty is very likeable. Loves the game and has given a lot to the game. A lot of people myself included thought that he'd pack it in but he wants another rattle. His call.
Loves the limelight me thinks... good for business too.
We have argued here whether Monaghan have been successful in his time as manager and some posters come back with the argument of Monaghan being a small county and that they have had "relative success". However, the Monaghan set-up under Banty hasn't been designed for relative success it has been very professional and put in place for "real success". Given that after five years there has been no real success I would say he has failed. There has been a lot of money pumped into Monaghan football and maybe Banty deserves credit for that, but with the exception of a few individuals having lined their pockets nicely out of the project, there has been precious little to show for his five years in charge. Yes they have progressed, but they haven't been successful.
It costs him money to be there, he doesn't take one cent for his time.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 10:19:02 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 19, 2009, 09:10:57 PM
Too long in my view. Players get bored listening to one man all the time.
Apparently pleas from the players had a major part in his decision. Anyway, swapping managers about doesn't seem to have waves a magic wand over the fortunes of other counties. :P
Furthermore, I believe that Mickey Harte is the country's longest serving manager.
With all due respect Maguire- after 6 years with a fairly decent team -not to have won an ulster title is a fairly damning endightment. I know myself I wouldn't be going again. You have to achieve something to go on a run like that. Getting beaten by fermanagh etc in the Ulster championship etc- is hardly a legacy of success.
He has been there for 5 seasons so far, now going on for a 6th.
Now its Banty has failed and he should have walked as you would have.
Obviously Banty thought earnestly about packing it in. He made a decision to stay on after much thought as well as consultation with the squad. He is a serious man who has an overview of the state of Monaghan football over the past decade. He can measure what he has to offer to what is available and consider the effect of that on the squad. He is a man of iron who instills pride and self belief and with a united committed squad fully behind him for next seasons League Div1 competition and preparation for another championship.
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2009, 11:33:03 AM
He has been there for 5 seasons so far, now going on for a 6th.
Now its Banty has failed and he should have walked as you would have.
Obviously Banty thought earnestly about packing it in. He made a decision to stay on after much thought as well as consultation with the squad. He is a serious man who has an overview of the state of Monaghan football over the past decade. He can measure what he has to offer to what is available and consider the effect of that on the squad. He is a man of iron who instills pride and self belief and with a united committed squad fully behind him for next seasons League Div1 competition and preparation for another championship.
I don't dispute any of that but do you not think that after 5 years not winning even an Ulster Championship isn't a good record. Doing well in the qualifiers is nice but until Monaghan win something they aren't going to improve. Bar Tyrone Ulster isn't especially strong at the moment.
The way the championship format is these days, I'd see reaching the 1/4 finals as the base target.
This year was more worrying as we should have been able or at least come close to beating Derry in Clones. I'd assume much of Banty's reflection was about that result after all that preparation.
It was desperately disappointing.
Others would know better what went on in the debriefing and what commitment the squad are prepared to make for next year. I only know from a few what it has meant to them to be a part of the squad and how it has taken over their lives.
I don't know who is available and would be capable of taking on the job. If there are a few, they can surely wait another year.
Quote from: thebandit on August 20, 2009, 09:55:07 AM
Quote from: irunthev on August 20, 2009, 08:49:34 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 20, 2009, 04:08:40 AM
Banty is very likeable. Loves the game and has given a lot to the game. A lot of people myself included thought that he'd pack it in but he wants another rattle. His call.
Loves the limelight me thinks... good for business too.
We have argued here whether Monaghan have been successful in his time as manager and some posters come back with the argument of Monaghan being a small county and that they have had "relative success". However, the Monaghan set-up under Banty hasn't been designed for relative success it has been very professional and put in place for "real success". Given that after five years there has been no real success I would say he has failed. There has been a lot of money pumped into Monaghan football and maybe Banty deserves credit for that, but with the exception of a few individuals having lined their pockets nicely out of the project, there has been precious little to show for his five years in charge. Yes they have progressed, but they haven't been successful.
It costs him money to be there, he doesn't take one cent for his time.
Never suggested Banty took money for doing the job, but he is in a business where punters will come through the door because of the job he does. There are a few from within his back-room who have done alright out of it directly.
Banty is a motivator, media man and finance generator and a that's about it, as a manager his tactics are very questionable at best.
To say it's costing him money is hardly accurate either - everyone knows the family businesses have done well out of it and through the various GAA links, traveling teams etc. Ones in Monaghan will tell you that people forget the family had a lot less property before he took over the county team than now.
All this hype about players wanting him is nonsense too... what else is someone going to say to him if they think he's going to pick the team next year?
If your boss comes to you and says - 'Bob... do you think I should resign now or stay on for another year' - knowing rightly he'll be the one deciding if you get a raise or not? - What are you going to say? Seriously? What is someone like the captain Damien Freeman going to say? Because the next man in would drop him straightaway.
Banty keeps banging on about trust in the team - say it often enough and someone will believe it - hell even he'll start to believe it eventually. He just wants reassurance from someone.
I'm told from a very reliable source that some of the senior players would be glad to see someone else come in and change it up because they see the weaknesses themselves and know their time is running out.
Banty is waiting to see if he can get someone else in as coach before he announces the backroom team as he recognizes they've gone backwards in the past 2 years.
The problem is he will have to pay 40-50 grand for the next man as that's the precedent that they've set.
As for the success Monaghan have achieved ... they've won nothing in years and they're not a patch on the tough 80's teams which went right through the front door.
Like I said before - if he stays on for one year it will be a bad move as he'll just bleed that group more and run them into the ground more not leaving anything for anyone else to inherit.
No harm Jim, you don't know about the personal finances or the like to be saying the Banty and his family have built up there business's on the back of him been county manager. When he took over the job they where already building up this up and remember, this was during the boom years and money was easily got to buy what you wanted. It isn't as clear cut as you make out.
Also this talk you have of the players not wanting him cause they might get dropped!! FFS, grow up. Any of the players I have talked to, yes directly, have said they'd like to see him stay on and that includes some explayers who have left in recent years. The feeling is that 3/4 of the players will only give it a couple of more years at best and that a new man coming in won't get the best of these players.
Banty is a players manager, pure and simple.
There is limited in the GAA for a team to actually win to measure success. He started at the lowest ebb. He won a Div 2 title from the old format. He reached an Ulster final. He took Monaghan back to Div 1. He reached the later stages of the All-Ireland and twice took Kerry to the final minutes. 5 years ago when he started this would have been unthinkable.
He may not have won an Ulster but he has ticked every other box that Monaghan should be realistictly aiming at. 2007 was the year that an Ulster got away but he picked up a team from the floor and again took them to Croke park to face Kerry.
I don't like his style of play (or Martys), I don't like that he very often puts club football way down the list but I think he is entitled to another go and finish what he has started. I don't think anyone else is in the frame, we'd end up with a recently retired ex-county star ala Colm Coyle who may produce the odd win but that would be it.
If he wants it and the players want it, then so be it. He has earned the right imho.
Jim? ;D Anyway ...
Binobus - if you read what I said - I didn't say he or the family make his money off the back of it - I said he didn't lose money because someone else was saying it was costing the Banty to manage Monaghan - which isn't true either. He's a great hard worker by all accounts and deserves every success if that's the case - but to say it's 'costing' him is a bit rich.
I think Monaghan have more often than not been a hard team to beat and always are around the semi-final stage of Ulster - he's made no difference. To say he won a Div 2 is a joke too. Ulsters are the standard and only Tyrone and Armagh can claim success there.
A players manager? So what. There's no prizes for being the players favourite. Mickey Harte wouldn't be described the same way.
The only thing I see him finishing with that current squad is a few players careers and his own - I think if he's going to stay on - do another 3 year stint and 'try' and do it properly. Not bleed the same players dry for a 6th year on the road.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:16:10 AM
Banty is a motivator, media man and finance generator and a that's about it, as a manager his tactics are very questionable at best.
To say it's costing him money is hardly accurate either - everyone knows the family businesses have done well out of it and through the various GAA links, traveling teams etc. Ones in Monaghan will tell you that people forget the family had a lot less property before he took over the county team than now.
All this hype about players wanting him is nonsense too... what else is someone going to say to him if they think he's going to pick the team next year?
If your boss comes to you and says - 'Bob... do you think I should resign now or stay on for another year' - knowing rightly he'll be the one deciding if you get a raise or not? - What are you going to say? Seriously? What is someone like the captain Damien Freeman going to say? Because the next man in would drop him straightaway.
Banty keeps banging on about trust in the team - say it often enough and someone will believe it - hell even he'll start to believe it eventually. He just wants reassurance from someone.
I'm told from a very reliable source that some of the senior players would be glad to see someone else come in and change it up because they see the weaknesses themselves and know their time is running out.
Banty is waiting to see if he can get someone else in as coach before he announces the backroom team as he recognizes they've gone backwards in the past 2 years.
The problem is he will have to pay 40-50 grand for the next man as that's the precedent that they've set.
As for the success Monaghan have achieved ... they've won nothing in years and they're not a patch on the tough 80's teams which went right through the front door.
Like I said before - if he stays on for one year it will be a bad move as he'll just bleed that group more and run them into the ground more not leaving anything for anyone else to inherit.
Jim / Joe / James / John / Jose ...... I agree 100% with everything you say.
I thought the highlighted bit stood out when I read it first time round ...
McEnaney defers decision
21 August 2009
Seamus McEnaney has asked for more time to decide whether to continue as Monaghan manager for a sixth successive year.
A statement was due yesterday from the Monaghan county board regarding the Corduff man's future, but he has requested a two-week extension and has now been given until September 1 to make up his mind.
"I met with the county board last night (Wednesday) and asked for a two-week extension," 'Banty' told the Irish News.
"I have a few things to get sorted out, which haven't been sorted out yet. It's not a small decision for me - it's a big decision for this group of players. It's a big decision for a lot of people in Monaghan and it's not one that I'm taking lightly."
McEnaney, who has held talks with team trainer Martin McElkennon and his selectors Gerry Connolly and Adrian Trappe in recent days, added: "I want to be 100 per cent sure the decision I come up with his right.
"The bond between the players and me is still very, very strong after five years. I also think the players have progressed every year and I believe they progressed in 2009 as well.
"We're back in Division 1 for the first time in 20 years. That's where Monaghan needs to be because, if you want to win provincial silverware or national silverware, you have to be playing in Division 1."
May be it's nothing but I thought he'd have said 'the management team' or us or something like that.
Or that 'the bond between all of us' is strong etc
Maybe nothing.
Joseph, it was a Div 2 title, he won it. Why dismiss it? He couldn't win anything else in the league as he has only reached Div 1 now.
He makes reference to the players and him because he may intend to clear out his back room team again. He did it with Gerry McCarville, Bernie Murray and Gerry Hoey after two years. Any they where the reason he got the job. He may be doing the same. I think thats the right attitude to have - Mgr and Players. Everyone else can come and go.
He has cost him, same as it costs every manager in Ireland. Loss of Family life but I'm sure he and his family wouldn't have it any other way.
He's a players manager in that the players always come first. He he had the slightest thoughts that they didn't want him, he'd be gone. The players that i know in monaghan are very defensive of banty.
Quote from: bingobus on August 21, 2009, 11:03:53 AM
Joseph, it was a Div 2 title, he won it. Why dismiss it? He couldn't win anything else in the league as he has only reached Div 1 now.
He makes reference to the players and him because he may intend to clear out his back room team again. He did it with Gerry McCarville, Bernie Murray and Gerry Hoey after two years. Any they where the reason he got the job. He may be doing the same. I think thats the right attitude to have - Mgr and Players. Everyone else can come and go.
He has cost him, same as it costs every manager in Ireland. Loss of Family life but I'm sure he and his family wouldn't have it any other way.
He's a players manager in that the players always come first. He he had the slightest thoughts that they didn't want him, he'd be gone. The players that i know in monaghan are very defensive of banty.
I just mean a Div 2 title means very little - a trophy for coming 7th or something in the 2nd most important competition in the country ....
Of course it's cost him in terms of family - but I'm not going there.
Looks like Banty I think is watching the Down and Armagh situations ....
If Tally, McIver, McAlinden, McCartan or some of their backroom staff don't get in then he'll not have committed himself and will be able to take them on.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 10:18:50 AM
Jim? ;D Anyway ...
Binobus - if you read what I said - I didn't say he or the family make his money off the back of it - I said he didn't lose money because someone else was saying it was costing the Banty to manage Monaghan - which isn't true either. He's a great hard worker by all accounts and deserves every success if that's the case - but to say it's 'costing' him is a bit rich.
I think Monaghan have more often than not been a hard team to beat and always are around the semi-final stage of Ulster - he's made no difference. To say he won a Div 2 is a joke too. Ulsters are the standard and only Tyrone and Armagh can claim success there.
A players manager? So what. There's no prizes for being the players favourite. Mickey Harte wouldn't be described the same way.
The only thing I see him finishing with that current squad is a few players careers and his own - I think if he's going to stay on - do another 3 year stint and 'try' and do it properly. Not bleed the same players dry for a 6th year on the road.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:16:10 AM
To say it's costing him money is hardly accurate either - everyone knows the family businesses have done well out of it and through the various GAA links, traveling teams etc. Ones in Monaghan will tell you that people forget the family had a lot less property before he took over the county team than now.
I had a reply written out, but I think I'm better to say nothing. Very scurrilous and totally unfair Jmohan.
Bullsh!t Nothing scurrilous at all
The impression is being made that Banty was bankrolling the whole team and operation and it was costing him money ... I'd be amazed if that's the case.
But I'm not in the slightest interested in discussing his finances - none of my or anyone else's business
I think Monaghan are at a cross roads - they either change the whole setup and keep Banty on - but they need to look at a longer plan or they stay with the same set up and try and get one more year
The one more year thing will be a disaster.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:16:10 AM
All this hype about players wanting him is nonsense too... what else is someone going to say to him if they think he's going to pick the team next year?
If your boss comes to you and says - 'Bob... do you think I should resign now or stay on for another year' - knowing rightly he'll be the one deciding if you get a raise or not? - What are you going to say? Seriously? What is someone like the captain Damien Freeman going to say? Because the next man in would drop him straightaway.
What a load of crap. Banty appointed Vinny Corey as the captain in place of Damien Freeman for the 2008 season. Damien either came on as a sub or was subbed in a number of games during the year.
I can't imagine that Banty would even want to continue if he didn't genuinely believe that he had the support of the players. He wouldn't manage to keep the squad together if he didn't.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:16:10 AM
I'm told from a very reliable source that some of the senior players would be glad to see someone else come in and change it up because they see the weaknesses themselves and know their time is running out.
Ah, the old "reliable source". It must be true.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:16:10 AM
As for the success Monaghan have achieved ... they've won nothing in years and they're not a patch on the tough 80's teams which went right through the front door.
So on one hand they're not a patch on the 80s team... and on the other hand you're having a go because they've achieved nothing? Surely if they're such an inferior team, that's what you'd expect. What can a manager do with such an inferior team?
Nothing worse than a man who's blind following won't let him reason.
I've said it before - Monaghan are at a crossroads -
- Get rid of Banty and bring in a better manager
- Keep Banty on - get a better backroom team and try and improve for one year
- Keep Banty on - get a better backroom team and try and improve with a long term view
- Keep Banty on - same backroom team and get the same result
That's the stage that team is at
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:42:06 PM
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:16:10 AM
All this hype about players wanting him is nonsense too... what else is someone going to say to him if they think he's going to pick the team next year?
If your boss comes to you and says - 'Bob... do you think I should resign now or stay on for another year' - knowing rightly he'll be the one deciding if you get a raise or not? - What are you going to say? Seriously? What is someone like the captain Damien Freeman going to say? Because the next man in would drop him straightaway.
What a load of crap. Banty appointed Vinny Corey as the captain in place of Damien Freeman for the 2008 season. Damien either came on as a sub or was subbed in a number of games during the year.
I can't imagine that Banty would even want to continue if he didn't genuinely believe that he had the support of the players. He wouldn't manage to keep the squad together if he didn't.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:16:10 AM
I'm told from a very reliable source that some of the senior players would be glad to see someone else come in and change it up because they see the weaknesses themselves and know their time is running out.
Ah, the old "reliable source". It must be true.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:16:10 AM
As for the success Monaghan have achieved ... they've won nothing in years and they're not a patch on the tough 80's teams which went right through the front door.
So on one hand they're not a patch on the 80s team... and on the other hand you're having a go because they've achieved nothing? Surely if they're such an inferior team, that's what you'd expect. What can a manager do with such an inferior team?
Its more a question of what he's going to add in a 6th year. Winning div 2 titles according to yourself seems to the barometer of success. In a county with a very strong club scene where little others sports are played I find Monaghan's lack of ambition quite extraordinary at times.
He's done a fine job in my view but he isn't going to add anything extra in a 6th year. In my view there is more than enough players on the current Monaghan panel to be at least winning Ulster titles. They may well look upon the last 2-3 years in the future as opportunities missed in that regard
I agree with that Indiana
I disagree a little with the absolute quality Monaghan have available to them, but I think they should be doing a lot better. That's why when their supporters bang on about a Div 2 title it tells me about their ambition.
I don't think Banty is the right man - but perhaps he can bring the right man in with him. I think someone like Pete McGrath would be a great coup as an advisor or selector - or someone of that quality.
It's funny the way he's doing it too - it really looks like he's waiting on the decision from the Armagh or the Down job's and he's his eye or an agreement with Tally/McCartan/McIvor/McGrath/Grimley etc. The silence from the backroom team also look like it will mean a clear out there too.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 22, 2009, 11:18:30 AM
Winning div 2 titles according to yourself seems to the barometer of success. In a county with a very strong club scene where little others sports are played I find Monaghan's lack of ambition quite extraordinary at times.
It's also a county with one of the smallest populations in the country and less that 30 clubs. Monaghan are punching well above their weight.
Quote from: JMohan on August 22, 2009, 11:27:37 AM
I disagree a little with the absolute quality Monaghan have available to them, but I think they should be doing a lot better. That's why when their supporters bang on about a Div 2 title it tells me about their ambition.
For the record, no one is saying that a Division 2 title is the height of Monaghan's ambitions. The division 2 title is being used as a comparison to the years that preceded it. The title was also a long time ago at this stage and I wouldn't regard it as this team's high point anyway.
Of course Monaghan have ambition about winning an Ulster and reaching the latter stages of the All Ireland.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 22, 2009, 11:18:30 AM
In my view there is more than enough players on the current Monaghan panel to be at least winning Ulster titles. They may well look upon the last 2-3 years in the future as opportunities missed in that regard
And i'm sure Fermanagh will look back on the last 4-5 years in the same way. And Derry can look back on the last 10 years likewise. And as it happens, these two teams who should also realistically have been landing Ulster titles over the last few years have been the teams who have ended Monaghan's run in the Ulster Championship.
Quote from: JMohan on August 22, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Nothing worse than a man who's blind following won't let him reason.
Can you explain that?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 11:48:11 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 22, 2009, 11:18:30 AM
Winning div 2 titles according to yourself seems to the barometer of success. In a county with a very strong club scene where little others sports are played I find Monaghan's lack of ambition quite extraordinary at times.
It's also a county with one of the smallest populations in the country and less that 30 clubs. Monaghan are punching well above their weight.
Quote from: JMohan on August 22, 2009, 11:27:37 AM
I disagree a little with the absolute quality Monaghan have available to them, but I think they should be doing a lot better. That's why when their supporters bang on about a Div 2 title it tells me about their ambition.
For the record, no one is saying that a Division 2 title is the height of Monaghan's ambitions. The division 2 title is being used as a comparison to the years that preceded it. The title was also a long time ago at this stage and I wouldn't regard it as this team's high point anyway.
Of course Monaghan have ambition about winning an Ulster and reaching the latter stages of the All Ireland.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 22, 2009, 11:18:30 AM
In my view there is more than enough players on the current Monaghan panel to be at least winning Ulster titles. They may well look upon the last 2-3 years in the future as opportunities missed in that regard
And i'm sure Fermanagh will look back on the last 4-5 years in the same way. And Derry can look back on the last 10 years likewise. And as it happens, these two teams who should also realistically have been landing Ulster titles over the last few years have been the teams who have ended Monaghan's run in the Ulster Championship.
Quote from: JMohan on August 22, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Nothing worse than a man who's blind following won't let him reason.
Can you explain that?
I wouldn't agree Fermanagh would be expecting to land Ulster titles but they've achieved as much as Monaghan since 2003 in my view with an inferior group of players. Fermanagh have an even smaller population especially when you take the non -playing gaa community out of it. Monaghan have far more forwards for example, than fermanagh -yet fermanagh have reached the last 4, played in Div 1 and should have landed at least one ulster title
I'm not having a go - he's done a fine job but I'd question whether he can take them any further.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 22, 2009, 12:33:28 PM
I'm not having a go - he's done a fine job but I'd question whether he can take them any further.
Agreed - I don't think with the current set up he can
I'd just add to the above that at least the perennial failures that are Derry have one Div 1 to show for the past few years
Quote from: JMohan on August 22, 2009, 12:37:27 PM
I'd just add to the above that at least the perennial failures that are Derry have one Div 1 to show for the past few years
Yes, and that's probably as far from Dery's ambitions as the Div 2 title is from Monaghan's.
So Maguire - what would like to see happen with Monaghan?
Quote from: JMohan on August 22, 2009, 02:07:22 PM
So Maguire - what would like to see happen with Monaghan?
I'd like to see Banty stay on. If he changes his backroom team, then fair enough.
I'd like to see Monaghan stay in Division 1 and win an Ulster title and/or an All Ireland Semi-Final place. I think achieving any of these would be regarded as a very good 2010.
Yes - but in terms of management/tactics etc
Do you think he'll change his backroom team?
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 12:43:11 PM
[quote author=bingobus link=topic=13468.msg625020#msg625020 date=12508
I just mean a Div 2 title means very little - a trophy for coming 7th or something in the 2nd most important competition in the country ....
When Monaghan won Div. 2, there were 16 counties playing in Div. 1, so it was the equivalent of winning Div, 3 under the present NFL set up. Getting promoted to Div. 1 this year was a better achievement and staying in it next year will be a real test.
That div 2 final game had it's significance and it's fondly remembered in many respects as a watermark game, not as a boast of winning some big tournament.
Monaghan hit a brick wall after promotion was won this year. From beating Cork comprehensivly we were peed on, by them in Croke pk. There were few inroads made after that game into the issues that needed to be worked on for the championship. Those performances were a long way from matching the capabilities /ambitions of the squad or reflect the amount of preparation that went into it.
There is no hard and fast rule that the manager who got them to that level needs to be replaced. Sometimes a managers time has run out, sometimes not.
Banty sees playing in Div1 as a necessity for Monaghan to seriously challenge for the championship trophies.
That's the theory.
Seeing as we are in Div 1, Banty, as the manager who is associated with that, is fully entitled to test out the theory.
Quote from: Main Street on August 22, 2009, 09:30:13 PM
Banty sees playing in Div1 as a necessity for Monaghan to seriously challenge for the championship trophies.
That's the theory.
And in the majority of cases it has been proven. There haven't been too many recent AI winners from Division 2.
It's a theory from a Monaghan perspective.
I think there may be a danger the Banty feels an urge to blow his load in the League too - but that will be told in time.
Being Div 1 can only help though.
I thought Monaghan seemed to go badly backwards this year as a rule - is that the feeling in Monaghan as a whole or is that inaccurate?
QuoteI thought Monaghan seemed to go badly backwards this year as a rule - is that the feeling in Monaghan as a whole or is that inaccurate?
2009 is one time occasion.
A rule, you can say, is something which happens with regularity :)
After promotion was won this year,
they didn't go backwards, they just didn't go forward enough with their championship mode.
Banty thinks what is needed to overcome some important issues with the squad, is Div 1 experience.
Quote from: JMohan on August 23, 2009, 01:01:47 PM
I think there may be a danger the Banty feels an urge to blow his load in the League too - but that will be told in time.
Being Div 1 can only help though.
I thought Monaghan seemed to go badly backwards this year as a rule - is that the feeling in Monaghan as a whole or is that inaccurate?
Yes, topping Division 2 and being promoted was a terrible start to the year.
As for the Championship, yes, it was a poor year, but the draw didn't exactly do us any favours. It was generally accepted that Monaghan got the toughest draw for each of the 2 rounds of the qualifiers. We also played those 2 rounds without Tommy.
It wasn't the most successful summer, but how you arrive at the conclusion that the team went "badly backwards" I don't know.
Quote from: Main Street on August 23, 2009, 02:23:10 PM
QuoteI thought Monaghan seemed to go badly backwards this year as a rule - is that the feeling in Monaghan as a whole or is that inaccurate?
2009 is one time occasion.
A rule, you can say, is something which happens with regularity :)
After promotion was won this year,
they didn't go backwards, they just didn't go forward enough with their championship mode.
Banty thinks what is needed to overcome some important issues with the squad, is Div 1 experience.
As a rule - as a summary of the year.
Though when you consider it the way you mean - you could say as a rule in the Ulster championship Monaghan have been poor ;D
Seriously tho - I think the League will be an interesting test - because he needs more players - but will he blood them in Div 1?
I think not.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 23, 2009, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: JMohan on August 23, 2009, 01:01:47 PM
I think there may be a danger the Banty feels an urge to blow his load in the League too - but that will be told in time.
Being Div 1 can only help though.
I thought Monaghan seemed to go badly backwards this year as a rule - is that the feeling in Monaghan as a whole or is that inaccurate?
Yes, topping Division 2 and being promoted was a terrible start to the year.
As for the Championship, yes, it was a poor year, but the draw didn't exactly do us any favours. It was generally accepted that Monaghan got the toughest draw for each of the 2 rounds of the qualifiers. We also played those 2 rounds without Tommy.
It wasn't the most successful summer, but how you arrive at the conclusion that the team went "badly backwards" I don't know.
Well championship is the judge and Monaghan in Ulster championship football are not improving in most peoples eyes - do Monaghan people see something different?
Quote from: JMohan on August 23, 2009, 05:29:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 23, 2009, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: JMohan on August 23, 2009, 01:01:47 PM
I think there may be a danger the Banty feels an urge to blow his load in the League too - but that will be told in time.
Being Div 1 can only help though.
I thought Monaghan seemed to go badly backwards this year as a rule - is that the feeling in Monaghan as a whole or is that inaccurate?
Yes, topping Division 2 and being promoted was a terrible start to the year.
As for the Championship, yes, it was a poor year, but the draw didn't exactly do us any favours. It was generally accepted that Monaghan got the toughest draw for each of the 2 rounds of the qualifiers. We also played those 2 rounds without Tommy.
It wasn't the most successful summer, but how you arrive at the conclusion that the team went "badly backwards" I don't know.
Well championship is the judge and Monaghan in Ulster championship football are not improving in most peoples eyes - do Monaghan people see something different?
There's a big difference between "not improving" and "going badly backwards".
I was being polite
Stick to being polite, it makes more sense.
I won't miss him if he does go. His team is the epitome of everything that is wrong with Gaelic football.
Quote from: JMohan on August 22, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Nothing worse than a man who's blind following won't let him reason.
I've said it before - Monaghan are at a crossroads -
- Get rid of Banty and bring in a better manager
- Keep Banty on - get a better backroom team and try and improve for one year
- Keep Banty on - get a better backroom team and try and improve with a long term view
- Keep Banty on - same backroom team and get the same result
That's the stage that team is at
In my eyes Banty has got maximum return from this current squad of monaghan players and until new/youthful players are bleeded into the monaghan team then you're just going to get the same results as the last couple of years. The main talking point in monaghan shouldn't be the management decision, it should be looking about fresh talent who can re-ignite the current team.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 23, 2009, 10:41:41 PM
I won't miss him if he does go. His team is the epitome of everything that is wrong with Gaelic football.
This comes back to monaghan playing to their strengths. If a new, possibly naive man came in and proposed to play a more open brand of football I don't think that positive results for monaghan would be forthcoming. People in monaghan would soon appreciate what they had under banty. maybe not pretty football but in my eyes a very competitive outfit continually punching above their weight
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 23, 2009, 10:41:41 PM
I won't miss him if he does go. His team is the epitome of everything that is wrong with Gaelic football.
They were last year - before that I enjoyed their play to be honest
Its official....
who's he got to replace McElkennon then?
McElkennon stays
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 23, 2009, 10:41:41 PM
I won't miss him if he does go. His team is the epitome of everything that is wrong with Gaelic football.
Harsh but the team has appeared to lack ambition in terms of its style of play in the last few years.
McEnaney to remain Monaghan boss
Seamus McEnaney is to stay on as manager of the Monaghan team for a sixth consecutive year.
He informed the county board of his decision to continue on Tuesday evening after taking a number of weeks to consider his position.
The Farney county lost to Derry in the All-Ireland qualifiers.
Marty McElkennon, who had been strongly linked with a move to Derry, is staying on as team trainer but there will be changes to McEnaney's backroom team.
A high-profile name is expected to come on board in the next couple of days.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8232768.stm
McElkennon stays? Very surprised at that, but it'll be interesting to see who this "high profile" fella is.
I've heard a wee rumour about the 'high profile' fella that would be very bad news for Armagh people if true. Anyone else hear anything similar?
Quote from: AFS on September 02, 2009, 12:02:52 AM
I've heard a wee rumour about the 'high profile' fella that would be very bad news for Armagh people if true. Anyone else hear anything similar?
Whos that, Grimley? :D
Quote from: Schkite on September 02, 2009, 12:31:15 AM
Quote from: AFS on September 02, 2009, 12:02:52 AM
I've heard a wee rumour about the 'high profile' fella that would be very bad news for Armagh people if true. Anyone else hear anything similar?
Whos that, Grimley? :D
Jesus, I was only messing! But a very nice surprise!
Quote from: Schkite on September 02, 2009, 11:47:08 AM
Quote from: Schkite on September 02, 2009, 12:31:15 AM
Quote from: AFS on September 02, 2009, 12:02:52 AM
I've heard a wee rumour about the 'high profile' fella that would be very bad news for Armagh people if true. Anyone else hear anything similar?
Whos that, Grimley? :D
Jesus, I was only messing! But a very nice surprise!
;) and :(
It would appear that getting Grimley on board was the big part of Banty's decision to stay on another year.
Banty accepted something new was needed in the management team and with the CB support, an unequivocal offer was made to Grimley. I wonder did Banty have a plan B or was was Grimley's inclusion essential to his decision?
Plaudits to the CB for determination to complete a sound back up team in decisively supporting the changes to a serious plan to continue to build on progress made over recent years.
He must have been offered the job for next year Main Street?
If so, then Mickey Harte will be devastated.
Quote from: Logan on September 03, 2009, 11:45:48 AM
He must have been offered the job for next year Main Street?
I think this is the case alright.
Quote from: Main Street on September 03, 2009, 11:43:31 AM
It would appear that getting Grimley on board was the big part of Banty's decision to stay on another year.
Banty accepted something new was needed in the management team and with the CB support, an unequivocal offer was made to Grimley. I wonder did Banty have a plan B or was was Grimley's inclusion essential to his decision?
Plaudits to the CB for determination to complete a sound back up team in decisively supporting the changes to a serious plan to continue to build on progress made over recent years.
Seems to be the way with Banty. Get in a new face in the backroom every other year or two, to keep the thing going. Bit of a case of moving the deck chairs around a bit -hard to see how anyone else coming in to help can get any more out of the present players.
Personally, I think Banty should have committed for another few years. This 1 more year thing and the uncertainty that goes with it isn't good.
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 03, 2009, 06:38:30 PM
Personally, I think Banty should have committed for another few years. This 1 more year thing and the uncertainty that goes with it isn't good.
Unless Grimley is to inherit things next year?
Quote from: Logan on September 03, 2009, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 03, 2009, 06:38:30 PM
Personally, I think Banty should have committed for another few years. This 1 more year thing and the uncertainty that goes with it isn't good.
Unless Grimley is to inherit things next year?
He may well. But there's still the uncertainty now.
There is always uncertainty. Much of life is about functioning in uncertainty.
There are no certainties.
What's more important is stability and competence with the structure that is now taking shape.
Quote from: Main Street on September 04, 2009, 12:44:43 AM
There is always uncertainty. Much of life is about functioning in uncertainty.
There are no certainties.
What's more important is stability and competence with the structure that is now taking shape.
Well of course there are no certainties. But i'd imagine it makes more sense to be planning for a 2 or 3 year period than from year to year.
On a managerial team
A 2 or 3 year planning doesn't matter a toss, if you have a plan which is not working or a CB festering with disunity and typical cynical backbiting.
Having a plan is not the issue, its having a solid CB structure and solid grounded ambition for progress. And making the best guess for a managerial team to be a part of that.
Banty has been an integral part of ambition for progress. In this context, is not a whimsical decision for the CB to allow him to stick around for another year. I'd regard it as a continuum with some fine tuning.
Next year is the important decision re manager.
What will Paul Grimley bring to the Monaghan setup?
I guess we (Monaghan folk) have been very happy with McElkennon as fitness trainer over the last few years.
I believe that we may need a fresh tactical approach to how we play.
Is that Grimley's strength?
Was he the tactical genius behind Kernan with Armagh or McGeeney in Kildare? I'm not suggesting he's not - I just would like to hear what others think about that.