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From the Indo

By Donnchadh Boyle


Wednesday June 17 2009

THE Gaelic Players Association (GPA) are considering their next move after the funding scheme for inter-county players was axed last night.

The GPA stressed they had yet to receive any official notification of the cut, but stated it would represent an 'abandonment' of inter-county players by the Government and the GAA.

The scheme was approved in 2007 but only after the GPA was given a mandate to withdraw services from all competitions, which prompts speculation as to what their next move will be.

It also puts the GPA on a collision course with Croke Park. Relations between the two groups had been cordial and official recognition talks for the players' body were believed to be progressing well but this latest development could drive a wedge between the organisations and will provide the first major test of Christy Cooney's presidency.

"The scheme gave inter-county players some much-needed revenue and status, and that status would be removed if the scheme is cut," the GPA said in a statement to the Irish Independent.

"It would be very serious for inter-county players. GAA players are elite sportspeople. There is no escaping that inter-county hurlers and footballers have been singled out here."

- Donnchadh Boyle


My own tuppence worth is that it was always inevitable that we would arrive at this juncture, the financial crisis has just bought it to a head sooner than expected. The GAA were adamant at the time that the money would have to be funded by the Irish Sports Council and they would make no payments, I was adamant at the time that when these payments ceased the GPA would put their hand out to the GAA looking for the association to make up the shortfall - I hope they prove me wrong and stick to their stance in respecting the amatuer ethos of the association.

While I was initally against the payments at first, I did soften my stance and if the government or anyone else (bar the GAA) want to pay the money than I have no problem with it, if the GAA part with even 1 euro towards players grants I would be against it.

The "grant" will be called something else and will be paid for by Croke Park.


I feel sorry for the players who are losing out on a much needed source of income especially when some of them are out of work etc etc.

I also feel for some of the clubs who are losing out as some IC players were handing the cheques into the clubs.

You live by the sword...

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:16:27 AM
You live by the sword...

In what way are they living by the sword?

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 09:21:40 AM

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:16:27 AM
You live by the sword...

In what way are they living by the sword?

... you die by the sword.  Aimed at the GPA rather than players

You can't whinge like feck for a slice of the pie in the good times, then whinge like feck when the pie is all eaten.  Dessie sounds a bit malcontent.

If the nation cant afford it the nation cant afford it.  I never felt it could be afforded. 

Quote from: rrhf on June 17, 2009, 09:42:46 AM
If the nation cant afford it the nation cant afford it.  I never felt it could be afforded. 

If the nation can't afford it - the GAA can't afford it.

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:32:03 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 09:21:40 AM

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:16:27 AM
You live by the sword...

In what way are they living by the sword?

... you die by the sword.  Aimed at the GPA rather than players

You can't whinge like feck for a slice of the pie in the good times, then whinge like feck when the pie is all eaten.  Dessie sounds a bit malcontent.

I know the expression I just can't see how it applies here . The GAA generates far more money for the economy that these grants cost. Look at all the money the greyhounds get off the government where are the cut backs there?

it was never any thing to do with the gaa

it was the government giving grants to amateur sports people the same as they do in all other sports in Ireland

As Gnevin says why isn't the horse and dog racing industry getting hit, they get far more from the exchequer than GAA players or what about the tax benefits that professional sports people like the rugby players get, why isn't that looked at first? While I supported the grants at the time, Dessie came out and clearly stated they wouldn't look to the GAA to pay the grants in the event of the government ever withdrawing them and I expect the GPA to stand by their word in this regard.

Is it the entire elite athlete scheme that is being cut or only the bit that applies to GAA players??

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 10:28:25 AM
As Gnevin says why isn't the horse and dog racing industry getting hit, they get far more from the exchequer than GAA players or what about the tax benefits that professional sports people like the rugby players get, why isn't that looked at first? While I supported the grants at the time, Dessie came out and clearly stated they wouldn't look to the GAA to pay the grants in the event of the government ever withdrawing them and I expect the GPA to stand by their word in this regard.

Fair points Zulu and Gnevin, and if it is just GAA players getting hit than I feel that's out of order.

The 40% tax relief for professional sportspeople is also being axed. This will have a massive impact on professional rugby in particular. So its not just the Gaa.
The tax relief on stud fees/greyhound fees etc ended last July. So again that will hit those industries.
In relation to the grants awarded to these industries , Fianna Fail has  love affair with these industries.

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 10:37:16 AM
The 40% tax relief for professional sportspeople is also being axed. This will have a massive impact on professional rugby in particular. So its not just the Gaa.
The tax relief on stud fees/greyhound fees etc ended last July. So again that will hit those industries.
In relation to the grants awarded to these industries , Fianna Fail has  love affair with these industries.
Read the newspapers lads.

Based overseas - don't get a chance to read article online. Cheers Indiana - the tax relief on pro sportspeople is a big indication that the government are targeting the whole range of sportspeople not just GAA players

Never agreed with them in the first place but I can't disagree with the points Zulu has made. The concern is though, that the GPA appear to be trying to move the goalposts.

"The GPA stressed they had yet to receive any official notification of the cut, but stated it would represent an 'abandonment' of inter-county players by the Government and the GAA."

Quote from: stephenite on June 17, 2009, 10:40:50 AM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 10:37:16 AM
The 40% tax relief for professional sportspeople is also being axed. This will have a massive impact on professional rugby in particular. So its not just the Gaa.
The tax relief on stud fees/greyhound fees etc ended last July. So again that will hit those industries.
In relation to the grants awarded to these industries , Fianna Fail has  love affair with these industries.
Read the newspapers lads.

Based overseas - don't get a chance to read article online. Cheers Indiana - the tax relief on pro sportspeople is a big indication that the government are targeting the whole range of sportspeople not just GAA players

Only thing is mate- expect a national media whinge on the 40% tax relief scheme - might save it. I know moves are afoot on that one. But the Commissioner of Taxes is holding firm so far. The Gaa players won't get a lot of media support for the grants scheme- as rugby is now allegedly the "heartbeat of the nation" .
As for the grants awarded to the racing industry- have to get rid of fianna fail to end that. They claim they bring in jobs etc- which is all bullshit really.

I'm willing to trust Dessie when he said that they won't ask the GAA to replace this grant, and by that I am assuming that no scheme of a different name is put in place by the GAA instead. I'm confused by this sentence though'

'but stated it would represent an 'abandonment' of inter-county players by the Government and the GAA.'

Why would this imply the GAA are abandoning the players? If anything it's the Government 'abandoning' the players AND the GAA. I hope it's just a misinterpretation of the statement by the journo. Is there a direct quote anywhere?


In general, I was like Stephenite. I am happy if the players get recognised by the government as being cultural assets, fair play to them, but I am not willing for the GAA to stump up out of GAA funds to pay them.

Well if the tax relief for professional athletes is also cut then the GPA don't have a leg to stand on as the grant was justified on the basis that professionals were getting money from the government and that GAA players should also be entitled to something. It must be very frustrating for the GPA to see something they've worked so hard to get, disappear before they actually get any money but if it's happening across the board they can have no complaints and there is certainly no justification for looking to teh GAA to make up the shortfall. By the way I'd be disgusted if there is any weakening on the abandonment of tax relief for professional sports people, on what grounds would that be justified?

On the basis thats its for a select minority of people and not for the general population.  I wouldn't have any sympathy for the Irish international rugby players but for the poor sod of an athlete that scheme had the potential to be beneficial to them.

I agree Indiana, athletes put a huge effort into their sport with little recognition or financial reward and I'd have no problem with them getting something but professional soccer or rugby players have no justification whatsoever for getting that kind of tax break.

Quote from: tyronefan on June 17, 2009, 10:03:14 AM
it was never any thing to do with the gaa

it was the government giving grants to amateur sports people the same as they do in all other sports in Ireland

What other team sports were eligible for this grant?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 11:25:18 AM
I agree Indiana, athletes put a huge effort into their sport with little recognition or financial reward and I'd have no problem with them getting something but professional soccer or rugby players have no justification whatsoever for getting that kind of tax break.

The only soccer players entitled to this tax rebate are LoI ones. How are they less entitled to "recognition or financial reward" than intercounty players?

Long and the short of it was that these was an ill concieved scheme and never likely to happen.

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
On the basis thats its for a select minority of people and not for the general population.  I wouldn't have any sympathy for the Irish international rugby players but for the poor sod of an athlete that scheme had the potential to be beneficial to them.

Sport in general and are massive generator of wealth with very little investment. The semi in Croker generated up too 50 million for the local economy with out a set of overseas fans needing hotels.  (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0128/1232923369616.html) . Now the money given in tax relief would be buttons compared to the over all wealth generated by Rugby  in this country. One of the reasons Rugby is this country has managed to be successful is the tax relief has allow the IRFU keep it's best players at home.  So saving the tax relief now will cost us dearly soon .

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 12:47:19 PM

Quote from: tyronefan on June 17, 2009, 10:03:14 AM
it was never any thing to do with the gaa

it was the government giving grants to amateur sports people the same as they do in all other sports in Ireland

What other team sports were eligible for this grant?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 11:25:18 AM
I agree Indiana, athletes put a huge effort into their sport with little recognition or financial reward and I'd have no problem with them getting something but professional soccer or rugby players have no justification whatsoever for getting that kind of tax break.

The only soccer players entitled to this tax rebate are LoI ones. How are they less entitled to "recognition or financial reward" than intercounty players?

Long and the short of it was that these was an ill concieved scheme and never likely to happen.

Boxing team, hockey teams, 4 x 400 relay team, 4 x 100 relay team..................................... and so on

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 12:48:41 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
On the basis thats its for a select minority of people and not for the general population.  I wouldn't have any sympathy for the Irish international rugby players but for the poor sod of an athlete that scheme had the potential to be beneficial to them.

Sport in general and are massive generator of wealth with very little investment. The semi in Croker generated up too 50 million for the local economy with out a set of overseas fans needing hotels.  (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0128/1232923369616.html) . Now the money given in tax relief would be buttons compared to the over all wealth generated by Rugby  in this country. One of the reasons Rugby is this country has managed to be successful is the tax relief has allow the IRFU keep it's best players at home.  So saving the tax relief now will cost us dearly soon .

Well thats tough for professional rugby in my view. The likes of BOD for example do very nicely without an estimated 2m tax rebate at the end of his career. That rebate would cover a lot of salaries in the job centre. I would say professional rugby has done well due to the time invested into training and coaching these players to the required standard. Wonder what tax rebates the coaches get?
They can't jutsify giving millions back to guys who are already earning millions due to sponsorship deals alone.
It should be means tested- so that the poor athletes and the average rugby player or average LOI player doesn't get screwed. But the international rugby players needn't be looking for any sympathy of me. I know in detail exactly what one of them earns and even I was shocked.
If they want to retain the scheme -it has to be means tested.

Quote from: tyronefan on June 17, 2009, 12:50:10 PM


Boxing team, hockey teams, 4 x 400 relay team, 4 x 100 relay team..................................... and so on

Interesting interpretation of team, but I'll play along.

Hockey teams? Do you want to phone a friend?

The intercounty players were tacked into a scheme for Olympians. No other amateur sportsmen at the elite of their team sports are entitled to the grant in the manner GAA players were. It was an Irish solution to an Irish problem and was thankfully pulled.

If we want GAA players getting paid, the GAA should pay them. If we don't, then they shouldn't. Quite simple really.

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 12:48:41 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
On the basis thats its for a select minority of people and not for the general population.  I wouldn't have any sympathy for the Irish international rugby players but for the poor sod of an athlete that scheme had the potential to be beneficial to them.

Sport in general and are massive generator of wealth with very little investment. The semi in Croker generated up too 50 million for the local economy with out a set of overseas fans needing hotels.  (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0128/1232923369616.html) . Now the money given in tax relief would be buttons compared to the over all wealth generated by Rugby  in this country. One of the reasons Rugby is this country has managed to be successful is the tax relief has allow the IRFU keep it's best players at home.  So saving the tax relief now will cost us dearly soon .

well said Gnevin - good post!

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 01:04:32 PM

The intercounty players were tacked into a scheme for Olympians. No other amateur sportsmen at the elite of their team sports are entitled to the grant in the manner GAA players were. It was an Irish solution to an Irish problem and was thankfully pulled.

What other amateur sportsmen/women do you think should be entitled to receive these grants, given the huge spin off boosts to local economies and huge interest these players generate, are there other teams that should've been included in this scheme also?

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 01:00:52 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 12:48:41 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
On the basis thats its for a select minority of people and not for the general population.  I wouldn't have any sympathy for the Irish international rugby players but for the poor sod of an athlete that scheme had the potential to be beneficial to them.

Sport in general and are massive generator of wealth with very little investment. The semi in Croker generated up too 50 million for the local economy with out a set of overseas fans needing hotels.  (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0128/1232923369616.html) . Now the money given in tax relief would be buttons compared to the over all wealth generated by Rugby  in this country. One of the reasons Rugby is this country has managed to be successful is the tax relief has allow the IRFU keep it's best players at home.  So saving the tax relief now will cost us dearly soon .

Well thats tough for professional rugby in my view. The likes of BOD for example do very nicely without an estimated 2m tax rebate at the end of his career. That rebate would cover a lot of salaries in the job centre. I would say professional rugby has done well due to the time invested into training and coaching these players to the required standard. Wonder what tax rebates the coaches get?
They can't jutsify giving millions back to guys who are already earning millions due to sponsorship deals alone.
It should be means tested- so that the poor athletes and the average rugby player or average LOI player doesn't get screwed. But the international rugby players needn't be looking for any sympathy of me. I know in detail exactly what one of them earns and even I was shocked.
If they want to retain the scheme -it has to be means tested.

I agree with you but I took it that the original point on the IRFU was to counter that claim that the GAA is of massive economic benefit to Ireland and therefore the GAA should be giving back something to reflect this.

The argument was then the IRFU was also having a big impact on the ecomony. They have reached the level of competitioniveness as they are able to retain th best players due to the relief in place and this has also "helped the country".

In summary the argument that the GAA has a claim to releif because of the role it plays in Irish society and economy is nonsense.

Quote from: bingobus on June 17, 2009, 01:09:55 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 01:00:52 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 12:48:41 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
On the basis thats its for a select minority of people and not for the general population.  I wouldn't have any sympathy for the Irish international rugby players but for the poor sod of an athlete that scheme had the potential to be beneficial to them.

Sport in general and are massive generator of wealth with very little investment. The semi in Croker generated up too 50 million for the local economy with out a set of overseas fans needing hotels.  (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0128/1232923369616.html) . Now the money given in tax relief would be buttons compared to the over all wealth generated by Rugby  in this country. One of the reasons Rugby is this country has managed to be successful is the tax relief has allow the IRFU keep it's best players at home.  So saving the tax relief now will cost us dearly soon .

Well thats tough for professional rugby in my view. The likes of BOD for example do very nicely without an estimated 2m tax rebate at the end of his career. That rebate would cover a lot of salaries in the job centre. I would say professional rugby has done well due to the time invested into training and coaching these players to the required standard. Wonder what tax rebates the coaches get?
They can't jutsify giving millions back to guys who are already earning millions due to sponsorship deals alone.
It should be means tested- so that the poor athletes and the average rugby player or average LOI player doesn't get screwed. But the international rugby players needn't be looking for any sympathy of me. I know in detail exactly what one of them earns and even I was shocked.
If they want to retain the scheme -it has to be means tested.

I agree with you but I took it that the original point on the IRFU was to counter that claim that the GAA is of massive economic benefit to Ireland and therefore the GAA should be giving back something to reflect this.

The argument was then the IRFU was also having a big impact on the ecomony. They have reached the level of competitioniveness as they are able to retain th best players due to the relief in place and this has also "helped the country".

In summary the argument that the GAA has a claim to releif because of the role it plays in Irish society and economy is nonsense.

Very difficult to integrate anything into current tax law for amateur sportspeople. The grants scheme was probably the best idea. The 40% scheme was one of Mc Creevy's babies. Funny enough he was lambasted by the opposition for bringing it in at the time. So if FF do get rid of it which they say they are going to do then its highly unlikely FG will bring it back in when they get the reins.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 01:04:32 PM

Quote from: tyronefan on June 17, 2009, 12:50:10 PM


Boxing team, hockey teams, 4 x 400 relay team, 4 x 100 relay team..................................... and so on

Interesting interpretation of team, but I'll play along.

Hockey teams? Do you want to phone a friend?

The intercounty players were tacked into a scheme for Olympians. No other amateur sportsmen at the elite of their team sports are entitled to the grant in the manner GAA players were. It was an Irish solution to an Irish problem and was thankfully pulled.

If we want GAA players getting paid, the GAA should pay them. If we don't, then they shouldn't. Quite simple really.

http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie/publications/release.asp?ID=149

Anyway why should there be a difference between teams and individuals 

QuoteThe only soccer players entitled to this tax rebate are LoI ones. How are they less entitled to "recognition or financial reward" than intercounty players?

The point I made was that in light of IC players having their grant scrapped then rugby or soccer players are hardly entitled to getting money from the exchequer. You think differently?

How anyone can argue that we should continue to give tax relief to rugby players while GAa players get cut is beyond me. Every rugby player in Ireland can earn money by playing here or abroad, if they go abroad the only teams to suffer would be the provinces, are we the tax payer meant to prop up professional rugby teams?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:27:21 PM
How anyone can argue that we should continue to give tax relief to rugby players while GAa players get cut is beyond me. Every rugby player in Ireland can earn money by playing here or abroad, if they go abroad the only teams to suffer would be the provinces, are we the tax payer meant to prop up professional rugby teams?

I think the fact that the GAA not professional has alot to do with it, if the gaa were not making money hand over fist out of these players there would not be an issue. The main problem people have with the grants is that the gaa take in millions every year but refuse to pay these players - if the gaa made a little less it may not be an issue.

It will be more expensive to go to the All Ireland final this year than it is to go to the Heineken Cup final and all the pool stages tickets would be on par with the gaa championship ticket prices...

If the GAA paid the players then they would be entitled to the 40% tax relief but this is not a professional game and would not survive as one...

Quote from: Tankie on June 17, 2009, 01:47:28 PM
It will be more expensive to go to the All Ireland final this year than it is to go to the Heineken Cup final and all the pool stages tickets would be on par with the gaa championship ticket prices...

I'd imagine the sponsorship and TV rights income from the Heineken Cup would dwarf that of the GAA Championship. I may be wrong.

And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

I'm not in agreement with any relief, it was a daft scheme that was always only going to end in tears.

GAA brings very little to the ecomony. Its generates spending in the country but the money spent on it is basically in the country in the first place/ The GAA may encourage spending but I don;t think it takes money into the economy.

Quote from: bingobus on June 17, 2009, 01:55:02 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

I'm not in agreement with any relief, it was a daft scheme that was always only going to end in tears.

GAA brings very little to the ecomony. Its generates spending in the country but the money spent on it is basically in the country in the first place/ The GAA may encourage spending but I don;t think it takes money into the economy.

And how do you think GDP and economic growth is measured?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

Not a lot hence the reason why the 40% relief is going. If munster play leinster in a HEC semi final. How is that bringing money into the economy when the event is only attended by Irish people? Similar to Gaa matches.
Sky owns the TV Rights for the HEC so we get nothing from that either. The 40% relief scheme was only useful in my view for the Olympians who genuinely live on the breadline in pursuit of their sport. Gaa players couldn't be factored in as they don't earn from the sport.
It was  a ridiculous scheme for high earning rugby professionals. Another one of Mc Creevy's self -indulgences. Of which he had many. Hence the mess this country is in.

Suddenly it is all becoming clear.

The GPA are the fall guys for all sportsmen/women who got tax relief. Now none of them will and the spin will be it's the GPA's fault.

Unless of course all of the various sporting bodies line up together to have a go at the Government...........

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:21:35 PM


The point I made was that in light of IC players having their grant scrapped then rugby or soccer players are hardly entitled to getting money from the exchequer. You think differently?

To me they are two entirely seperate arguments.

1: Should the state be entitled to tweak with taxes to encourage certain industries, from IFSC status to artists? I think there is a merit in giving a capped tax releif to encourage professional athletes to base themselves here.

2: Should elite GAA players get a grant? I do not think that is an appropriate use of taxpayers money and is professionalism in everything other than name.

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 02:02:10 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

Not a lot hence the reason why the 40% relief is going. If munster play leinster in a HEC semi final. How is that bringing money into the economy when the event is only attended by Irish people? Similar to Gaa matches.
Sky owns the TV Rights for the HEC so we get nothing from that either. The 40% relief scheme was only useful in my view for the Olympians who genuinely live on the breadline in pursuit of their sport. Gaa players couldn't be factored in as they don't earn from the sport.
It was  a ridiculous scheme for high earning rugby professionals. Another one of Mc Creevy's self -indulgences. Of which he had many. Hence the mess this country is in.

It's keeping money in the Economy and generating wealth.

I buy a 200 phone from ebay  money to the local economy 0, taxes and duties 0
I go to a match spend 200, money to the local economy , 40 taxis , Drink, food , a percentage or all of the ticket,  money to the government directly 21% + duties .

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 09:59:33 AM

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:32:03 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 09:21:40 AM

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:16:27 AM
You live by the sword...

In what way are they living by the sword?

... you die by the sword.  Aimed at the GPA rather than players

You can't whinge like feck for a slice of the pie in the good times, then whinge like feck when the pie is all eaten.  Dessie sounds a bit malcontent.

I know the expression I just can't see how it applies here . The GAA generates far more money for the economy that these grants cost. Look at all the money the greyhounds get off the government where are the cut backs there?

[/b]


Bord na gCon are suffering severe cutbacks as well - redundancies are being made throughout Ireland - Horse racing money is also being severely cut back. It's not as if they are picking out the IC players. But I'd argue that the GAA contributes more to the economy than both of those sports.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 02:20:56 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:21:35 PM


The point I made was that in light of IC players having their grant scrapped then rugby or soccer players are hardly entitled to getting money from the exchequer. You think differently?

To me they are two entirely seperate arguments.

1: Should the state be entitled to tweak with taxes to encourage certain industries, from IFSC status to artists? I think there is a merit in giving a capped tax releif to encourage professional athletes to base themselves here.

2: Should elite GAA players get a grant? I do not think that is an appropriate use of taxpayers money and is professionalism in everything other than name.

So you'd give money too a paid professional before an amateur?   ???

QuoteI go to a match spend 200, money to the local economy , 40 taxis , Drink, food , a percentage or all of the ticket,  money to the government directly 21% + duties .

Which occurs at GAA games as well so why should rugby players and not GAA players get something back?

QuoteTo me they are two entirely seperate arguments.

1: Should the state be entitled to tweak with taxes to encourage certain industries, from IFSC status to artists? I think there is a merit in giving a capped tax releif to encourage professional athletes to base themselves here.

2: Should elite GAA players get a grant? I do not think that is an appropriate use of taxpayers money and is professionalism in everything other than name.

Why should we encourage professional athletes stay here, if the top, for example, 50 rugby and soccer players left to play in England, they would be replaced by other players so the only real loser would be our clubs who would be weaker. But why should tax payers help keep professional sports teams strong (relatively) yet do nothing for a sports organisation that has used the money saved from paying players to provide hundreds of thousands of kids sports facilities the length and breath of the country? By the way I'm not arguing for the grants if they are gone they are gone but why should, already well paid athletes, get a tax break when everyone else is having to take a hit?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 02:54:08 PM

QuoteI go to a match spend 200, money to the local economy , 40 taxis , Drink, food , a percentage or all of the ticket,  money to the government directly 21% + duties .

Which occurs at GAa games as well so why should rugby players and not GAa players get someting back.

I'm not arguing  GAA players or Rugby players should have to give something back. I'm arguing it's moronic policy to "save" x million which will indirectly or directly lead to the lose of  many times x.

There is definitely an inequality in the system where tax breaks are offered to some and not othes. The GAA I would argue safely is the biggest organisation in Ireland and contributes most socially to the country. This should be recognised.


The IC players should be allowed to keep their grant ( even though I didn't agree with it at the time ) but now that it was passed it should have been kept.

€3.5m is nothing in the overall scheme of things - it probably represents a days wasteage by the HSE.

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 02:35:02 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 02:02:10 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

Not a lot hence the reason why the 40% relief is going. If munster play leinster in a HEC semi final. How is that bringing money into the economy when the event is only attended by Irish people? Similar to Gaa matches.
Sky owns the TV Rights for the HEC so we get nothing from that either. The 40% relief scheme was only useful in my view for the Olympians who genuinely live on the breadline in pursuit of their sport. Gaa players couldn't be factored in as they don't earn from the sport.
It was  a ridiculous scheme for high earning rugby professionals. Another one of Mc Creevy's self -indulgences. Of which he had many. Hence the mess this country is in.

It's keeping money in the Economy and generating wealth.

I buy a 200 phone from ebay  money to the local economy 0, taxes and duties 0
I go to a match spend 200, money to the local economy , 40 taxis , Drink, food , a percentage or all of the ticket,  money to the government directly 21% + duties .

Drinks, taxis, foods are all incidental. People do that on an everyday basis. They don't need to go to a rugby match for that.If you want a tax relief scheme you'll have to do better than that. You'd be laughed out of court if that was the defence. On that basis we could have tax relief schemes for everyone who goes to a pub at the weekend.
Leinster and munster rugby were all successful before this scheme ever came in.  There are others in the economy who need the money more now- thats the bottom line. The abolishment of  this scheme won't have a significant impact on numbers in the RDS and Thomond Park next season. Thats the same stuff the racing industry goes on with - that they will lose thousands of jobs etc-

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 02:52:49 PM
name.

So you'd give money too a paid professional before an amateur?   ???
[/quote]

Do you want to think about that question?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 02:54:08 PM

Why should we encourage professional athletes stay here, if the top, for example, 50 rugby and soccer players left to play in England, they would be replaced by other players so the only real loser would be our clubs who would be weaker. But why should tax payers help keep professional sports teams strong (relatively) yet do nothing for a sports organisation that has used the money saved from paying players to provide hundreds of thousands of kids sports facilities the length and breath of the country? By the way I'm not arguing for the grants if they are gone they are gone but why should, already well paid athletes, get a tax break when everyone else is having to take a hit?

Beccause there is a feelgood factor in having the best in Ireland. I think it should be folded as its a frivolity we can't afford, but what harm in giving Leinster and Munster an advantage? They also pay it back in VAT.

Football and rugby also provide these sports facilities top- its a strawman argument and has nothing to do with whether the taxpayer should directly pay elite GAA players. Thats my objection. Why not also the AIL rugby player, the LSL soccer player, the club cricketer too?

Its a bit odd that this story makes so many headlines today, especially when the recent decision by the Government to axe the 2009 Sports Capital Programme got so little attention.

Think about it, as things stand at present, the State sees fit to allocate grant funds and tax cuts to elite sportspeople across a range of sports, but no funds are available to assist grassroots clubs and groups who want to establish or improve sports facilities to be used by children and adults of all ability levels.

This is bad enough until you also remember that the National Lottery was set up and operated precisely to generate funds for the latter purpose. In this context, the recent pocketing of these funds by the Government is an absolute scandal. 

There are far more important things to worry about here than county players' booze money or the subscriptions that are paying Dessie's salary.

QuoteBeccause there is a feelgood factor in having the best in Ireland. I think it should be folded as its a frivolity we can't afford, but what harm in giving Leinster and Munster an advantage? They also pay it back in VAT.

Well there is no feelgood factor from the LoI, so should they be cut? And if a sport decides to go professional I don't see why the tax payer should help pay for it, let them compete with other professional teams on the basis of wages, lifestyle and opportunities for success like everyone else. Do the GAA not pay VAT?

QuoteFootball and rugby also provide these sports facilities top- its a strawman argument and has nothing to do with whether the taxpayer should directly pay elite GAA players. Thats my objection. Why not also the AIL rugby player, the LSL soccer player, the club cricketer too?

Well the feelgood factor that the GAA provides is far in excess to what other sports provide so if that is a justification GAA players should definitely get something. IC players are the equvilant of LoI and top rugby players and in fact they play in front of bigger crowds and have a similar level of fitness, so the only real difference is soccer and rugby players are already getting paid, why should the tax payer stump up for more?

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 02:59:43 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 02:35:02 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 02:02:10 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

Not a lot hence the reason why the 40% relief is going. If munster play leinster in a HEC semi final. How is that bringing money into the economy when the event is only attended by Irish people? Similar to Gaa matches.
Sky owns the TV Rights for the HEC so we get nothing from that either. The 40% relief scheme was only useful in my view for the Olympians who genuinely live on the breadline in pursuit of their sport. Gaa players couldn't be factored in as they don't earn from the sport.
It was  a ridiculous scheme for high earning rugby professionals. Another one of Mc Creevy's self -indulgences. Of which he had many. Hence the mess this country is in.

It's keeping money in the Economy and generating wealth.

I buy a 200 phone from ebay  money to the local economy 0, taxes and duties 0
I go to a match spend 200, money to the local economy , 40 taxis , Drink, food , a percentage or all of the ticket,  money to the government directly 21% + duties .

Drinks, taxis, foods are all incidental. People do that on an everyday basis. They don't need to go to a rugby match for that.If you want a tax relief scheme you'll have to do better than that. You'd be laughed out of court if that was the defence. On that basis we could have tax relief schemes for everyone who goes to a pub at the weekend.
Leinster and munster rugby were all successful before this scheme ever came in.  There are others in the economy who need the money more now- thats the bottom line. The abolishment of  this scheme won't have a significant impact on numbers in the RDS and Thomond Park next season. Thats the same stuff the racing industry goes on with - that they will lose thousands of jobs etc-

I walk to my local pub. I don't need a ticket to get in , I don't have to eat out I have 7/8 pints instead of gods knows what . I use the money I save and buy a 150 phone net loss to Ireland 150 . The abolishment of the tax refund will lead to player flight, which leads to worse teams less interest and less chance of over seas teams playing major games here.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 03:14:08 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 02:52:49 PM
So you'd give money too a paid professional before an amateur?   ???

Do you want to think about that question?

No . Do you need time to think about the answer?

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 03:55:12 PM

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 03:14:08 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 02:52:49 PM
So you'd give money too a paid professional before an amateur?   ???

Do you want to think about that question?

No . Do you need time to think about the answer?

I would rather amateurs didn't get money. Thats why they are called amateurs

Quote from: cornafean on June 17, 2009, 03:33:34 PM
Its a bit odd that this story makes so many headlines today, especially when the recent decision by the Government to axe the 2009 Sports Capital Programme got so little attention.

Think about it, as things stand at present, the State sees fit to allocate grant funds and tax cuts to elite sportspeople across a range of sports, but no funds are available to assist grassroots clubs and groups who want to establish or improve sports facilities to be used by children and adults of all ability levels.

This is bad enough until you also remember that the National Lottery was set up and operated precisely to generate funds for the latter purpose. In this context, the recent pocketing of these funds by the Government is an absolute scandal. 

There are far more important things to worry about here than county players' booze money or the subscriptions that are paying Dessie's salary.

Thats simply not true and a red herring in the debate at hand

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 03:57:11 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 03:55:12 PM

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 03:14:08 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 02:52:49 PM
So you'd give money too a paid professional before an amateur?   ???

Do you want to think about that question?

No . Do you need time to think about the answer?

I would rather amateurs didn't get money. Thats why they are called amateurs

May in the 1900's . Amateurs have been getting grants and other perks for year.

IRISH SPORTS COUNCIL PRESS RELEASE

Irish Sports Council announces 2009 funding for GAA, FAI & IRFU

€9.9 million directed at participation initiatives

June 17, 2009.
Dublin


The Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Mr Martin Cullen TD, today announced a package of €9.9 million to support the work of the major field sports in developing their games around the country. The Irish Sports Council will support extensive participation programmes with €3.29 million for the GAA, €3.5 million for the FAI and €3.07 million for the IRFU.

This is the latest installment in the money allocated by the Council to the GAA, FAI and IRFU since the Special Budget Measure was introduced in 2001. This measure was introduced with the specific aim of encouraging and creating more opportunities for young people to participate in field sports with a particular emphasis on working in areas of disadvantage.

The investment targets every aspect of the sport that can make a contribution to the strategic aim of increasing participation including coach development, club support, under age programmes, volunteer support programmes, community schemes, referee development and targeting at-risk communities.

These programmes are based on a shared ethos of developing the grass roots of the games, growing participation numbers and targeting communities outside of the traditional base of the sport. There is a significant return on the investment as the strengthening of sports organisations generates social, health and cultural benefits.  Senior representatives of the three sports, Páraic Duffy of the GAA, Packie Bonner of the FAI and Philip Browne from the IRFU, made presentations at the launch event detailing the progress made in recent years and their plans for 2009.

At an event in Croke Park the Minister highlighted the work of the three organisations in bringing sport into communities throughout the country. Minister Cullen: "The GAA, FAI and IRFU are deeply committed to broadening the participation base of their sports. Supported by the Irish Sports Council, which is funded by my Department, their programmes deliver quality opportunities in sport for every community in Ireland , in which there is a significant benefit derived through the growth of these sports."

John Treacy, CEO, Irish Sports Council; "The Irish Sports Council shares a common ambition with the three major field sports to increase participation in sport and physical activity, particularly for young people.  We recognise their capacity and potential for making a major impact on numbers taking part in sport, in all local communities."

The funding supports detailed action plans in each sport and significant investment by the sports from their own resources. There are many innovative programmes in each sport as well as the employment of a professional sports development team who support the roll-out of the programmes.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 17, 2009, 01:51:27 PM

Quote from: Tankie on June 17, 2009, 01:47:28 PM
It will be more expensive to go to the All Ireland final this year than it is to go to the Heineken Cup final and all the pool stages tickets would be on par with the gaa championship ticket prices...

I'd imagine the sponsorship and TV rights income from the Heineken Cup would dwarf that of the GAA Championship. I may be wrong.

I understand that but the running cost are also alot higher.....the GAA are making millions out of their game and the money goes back into the games which is great but you cant expect the taxer to then pay the wage bill for the players...

QuoteI understand that but the running cost are also alot higher.....the GAA are making millions out of their game and the money goes back into the games which is great but you cant expect the taxer to then pay the wage bill for the players...

Yet you expect them to pay for professional players, who by the way could earn a similar amount of money elsewhere?

QuoteThe abolishment of the tax refund will lead to player flight, which leads to worse teams less interest and less chance of over seas teams playing major games here.

Not necessarily, it would just mean Munster et al. would have to offer more attractive packages and it is only Irish games which regularily bring in the big games and they will always continue to do that.

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 03:53:32 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 02:59:43 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 02:35:02 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 02:02:10 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

Not a lot hence the reason why the 40% relief is going. If munster play leinster in a HEC semi final. How is that bringing money into the economy when the event is only attended by Irish people? Similar to Gaa matches.
Sky owns the TV Rights for the HEC so we get nothing from that either. The 40% relief scheme was only useful in my view for the Olympians who genuinely live on the breadline in pursuit of their sport. Gaa players couldn't be factored in as they don't earn from the sport.
It was  a ridiculous scheme for high earning rugby professionals. Another one of Mc Creevy's self -indulgences. Of which he had many. Hence the mess this country is in.

It's keeping money in the Economy and generating wealth.

I buy a 200 phone from ebay  money to the local economy 0, taxes and duties 0
I go to a match spend 200, money to the local economy , 40 taxis , Drink, food , a percentage or all of the ticket,  money to the government directly 21% + duties .

Drinks, taxis, foods are all incidental. People do that on an everyday basis. They don't need to go to a rugby match for that.If you want a tax relief scheme you'll have to do better than that. You'd be laughed out of court if that was the defence. On that basis we could have tax relief schemes for everyone who goes to a pub at the weekend.
Leinster and munster rugby were all successful before this scheme ever came in.  There are others in the economy who need the money more now- thats the bottom line. The abolishment of  this scheme won't have a significant impact on numbers in the RDS and Thomond Park next season. Thats the same stuff the racing industry goes on with - that they will lose thousands of jobs etc-

I walk to my local pub. I don't need a ticket to get in , I don't have to eat out I have 7/8 pints instead of gods knows what . I use the money I save and buy a 150 phone net loss to Ireland 150 . The abolishment of the tax refund will lead to player flight, which leads to worse teams less interest and less chance of over seas teams playing major games here.

No it won't that just scaremongering and its the same crack the racing industry go on with. There is no evidence to suggest the only reason players stay here becasue of that scheme. thats a total generalisation and you know it.
Some stay here because

- they want to play with their home province
-they want to play with their friends
- maybe their family are from Ireland
- maybe they want their kids educated here

It is not going to lead to a top  player flight by any stretch. Its not a good enough reason to have an inequitable scheme becasue of the threat of players leaving. They can do that anyway as it stands.
Players leave on annual basis to play in England and France. I can put their name sup if you want. So obviously the scheme isn't as big a puller as you think.

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 03:58:59 PM

May in the 1900's . Amateurs have been getting grants and other perks for year.

Not directly from the taxpayer.

Would you extend this scheme to all amateur sportsmen? Or women for that matter

IC GAA players aren't the same as AIL players or soccer players outside of the LoI.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 04:21:34 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 03:58:59 PM

May in the 1900's . Amateurs have been getting grants and other perks for year.

Not directly from the taxpayer.

Would you extend this scheme to all amateur sportsmen? Or women for that matter

The IOC and SCI are giving grants and scholarships or their members already.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 03:58:45 PM

Quote from: cornafean on June 17, 2009, 03:33:34 PM
Its a bit odd that this story makes so many headlines today, especially when the recent decision by the Government to axe the 2009 Sports Capital Programme got so little attention.

Think about it, as things stand at present, the State sees fit to allocate grant funds and tax cuts to elite sportspeople across a range of sports, but no funds are available to assist grassroots clubs and groups who want to establish or improve sports facilities to be used by children and adults of all ability levels.

This is bad enough until you also remember that the National Lottery was set up and operated precisely to generate funds for the latter purpose. In this context, the recent pocketing of these funds by the Government is an absolute scandal. 

There are far more important things to worry about here than county players' booze money or the subscriptions that are paying Dessie's salary.

Thats simply not true and a red herring in the debate at hand

Well it was true, at least until the ISC announcement today which laoisgaa has posted here.
http://www.cavansportspartnership.ie/Default.aspx?StructureID_str=15&guid=11

QuoteNews
Sports Capital Programme - NO FUNDING!
No funding for New Programmes for 2009

Bulletin from the Federation of Irish Sports detailing the response from Minister Martin Cullen in relation to sports capital funding for 2009:



MINISTER CULLEN RESPONDS TO PARLIAMENTARY QUESTIONS



We have set out below a summary of the Minister's responses to issues raised in the Dáil on 28th January in relation to Sport.

1. Sports Capital Programme- No Funding for New Projects in 2009

Minister Cullen confirmed that the €56 million outlined in the Department's 2009 Estimates Budget has NOT been allocated for new applications in 2009, and that there is NO funding for sports capital grant applications in 2009 at this stage. When asked if funding would be restored in 2010, Minister Cullen responded that of course he wanted to do the programme.

The Minister did however say that there had been 10 years of constant non-stop investment in facilities all over the country. He said that he felt that a more strategic approach is needed to ensure that that there is a good balance of facilities in all region

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 04:16:37 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 03:53:32 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 02:59:43 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 02:35:02 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 17, 2009, 02:02:10 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
And what has that got to do with arguing that rugby players should continue to get tax relief? The GAA brings as much if not more than any other sport into the Irish economy so they have as a much right to argue that they deserve something back on that basis. So if the government feel they need to cut that, what argument is left to make for rugby players getting tax relief?

Not a lot hence the reason why the 40% relief is going. If munster play leinster in a HEC semi final. How is that bringing money into the economy when the event is only attended by Irish people? Similar to Gaa matches.
Sky owns the TV Rights for the HEC so we get nothing from that either. The 40% relief scheme was only useful in my view for the Olympians who genuinely live on the breadline in pursuit of their sport. Gaa players couldn't be factored in as they don't earn from the sport.
It was  a ridiculous scheme for high earning rugby professionals. Another one of Mc Creevy's self -indulgences. Of which he had many. Hence the mess this country is in.

It's keeping money in the Economy and generating wealth.

I buy a 200 phone from ebay  money to the local economy 0, taxes and duties 0
I go to a match spend 200, money to the local economy , 40 taxis , Drink, food , a percentage or all of the ticket,  money to the government directly 21% + duties .

Drinks, taxis, foods are all incidental. People do that on an everyday basis. They don't need to go to a rugby match for that.If you want a tax relief scheme you'll have to do better than that. You'd be laughed out of court if that was the defence. On that basis we could have tax relief schemes for everyone who goes to a pub at the weekend.
Leinster and munster rugby were all successful before this scheme ever came in.  There are others in the economy who need the money more now- thats the bottom line. The abolishment of  this scheme won't have a significant impact on numbers in the RDS and Thomond Park next season. Thats the same stuff the racing industry goes on with - that they will lose thousands of jobs etc-

I walk to my local pub. I don't need a ticket to get in , I don't have to eat out I have 7/8 pints instead of gods knows what . I use the money I save and buy a 150 phone net loss to Ireland 150 . The abolishment of the tax refund will lead to player flight, which leads to worse teams less interest and less chance of over seas teams playing major games here.

No it won't that just scaremongering and its the same crack the racing industry go on with. There is no evidence to suggest the only reason players stay here becasue of that scheme. thats a total generalisation and you know it.
Some stay here because

- they want to play with their home province
-they want to play with their friends
- maybe their family are from Ireland
- maybe they want their kids educated here

It is not going to lead to a top  player flight by any stretch. Its not a good enough reason to have an inequitable scheme becasue of the threat of players leaving. They can do that anyway as it stands.
Players leave on annual basis to play in England and France. I can put their name sup if you want. So obviously the scheme isn't as big a puller as you think.

The IRFU can't afford to play their players 40% more. Many will leave if the lose 40% of their income , they are already taking a hit just to stay in Ireland.

So what? If the IRFU can't afford it they can't afford it and the provinces wil lhave to try and compete in other ways, it isn't the tax payers problem.

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 04:48:25 PM
So what? If the IRFU can't afford it they can't afford it and the provinces wil lhave to try and compete in other ways, it isn't the tax payers problem.

So we save X now and lose many time X down the road. Your should the in this FF government .
::) ::)

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 04:48:25 PM
So what? If the IRFU can't afford it they can't afford it and the provinces wil lhave to try and compete in other ways, it isn't the tax payers problem.

Are you objecting to tax being used to encourage certain indiginious industries in general or just rival sports?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 04:27:07 PM
IC GAA players aren't the same as AIL players or soccer players outside of the LoI.

Why not? They are elite amateurs too.

If the carlow third choice hurling goalkeeper is worth €5,000 a year to the taxpayer, why not the Tralee Dynamos midfielder or Shannon out half?

You are into the realm of the subjective now.

I dont think the carlow 3rd choice goalkeeper is getting 5k

QuoteSo we save X now and lose many time X down the road. Your should the in this FF government .
 

What are we losing? We will still have the Irish internationals and all our provinces can still compete if they are able to do so on their own terms. To take your argument further why don't we fund 4 soccer teams and bring them up to champions league standard? That would bring in money too?

QuoteAre you objecting to tax being used to encourage certain indiginious industries in general or just rival sports?

I'm objecting to those who argue that the government should continue to pay sports people who already get paid while saying it is ok to cut the very small amount of money to amateurs that bring in far more to the economy than the grant costs.

QuoteWhy not? They are elite amateurs too.

Eh no they are not and quite a few of them get paid under the table.

QuoteIf the carlow third choice hurling goalkeeper is worth €5,000 a year to the taxpayer, why not the Tralee Dynamos midfielder or Shannon out half?

Here will you stop posting complete BS, you as usual have avoided questions put to you, and nobody on the Carlow team would have got €5K but the Kerry footballers who would have got the top level of teh grant are far more worthy of tax money than a Shannon or Tralee dynamo player. A fairer comparison would be a Kerry senior club footballer who doesn't get paid a grant either.

QuoteYou are into the realm of the subjective now.

Nonsense.

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:04:20 PM

QuoteSo we save X now and lose many time X down the road. Your should the in this FF government .
 

What are we losing? We will still have the Irish internationals and all our provinces can still compete if they are able to do so on their own terms. To take your argument further why don't we fund 4 soccer teams and bring them up to champions league standard? That would bring in money too?

LOI currently get tax breaks , we are not talking about funding them .

Quote from: tyronefan on June 17, 2009, 04:56:50 PM
I dont think the carlow 3rd choice goalkeeper is getting 5k

He would do under the grant scheme

But your argument for retaining them is to keep rugby teams competitive, why don't we use tax payers money to make LoI teams competitive, who would then bring even more money in than rugby? You can't argue for tax breaks for rugby players just to keep them competitive, especially when amateur players who do a huge amount for this country are getting cut, if one does then so should the other, simple as.

QuoteHe would do under the grant scheme

No he wouldn't.

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:04:20 PM

I'm objecting to those who argue that the government should continue to pay sports people who already get paid while saying it is ok to cut the very small amount of money to amateurs that bring in far more to the economy than the grant costs.

Quote

Lets break this down. There is a scheme, being abolished, that makes it easier for football, rugby and baskeball to attract talent.

What you are talking about is paying amatuers to do their hobby.

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:04:20 PM

Eh no they are not and quite a few of them get paid under the table.

Quote

Thats your opinion. What is the difference in commitment between a top amateur rugby player, soccer player and hurler? Why should the GAA player get a few quid from the taxpayer and not the rugby player?

QuoteHere will you stop posting complete BS, you as usual have avoided questions put to you, and nobody on the Carlow team would have got €5K but the Kerry footballers who would have got the top level of teh grant are far more worthy of tax money than a Shannon or Tralee dynamo player. A fairer comparison would be a Kerry senior club footballer who doesn't get paid a grant either.

Why are they more worthy of tax money? Because you prefer watching them.

If we want IC players getting paid than abolish amateur status and pay them. Anything else is navelgazing.

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
But your argument for retaining them is to keep rugby teams competitive, why don't we use tax payers money to make LoI teams competitive, who would then bring even more money in than rugby? You can't argue for tax breaks for rugby players just to keep them competitive, especially when amateur players who do a huge amount for this country are getting cut, if one does then so should the other, simple as.

Do you actually understand whats going on here?

The government should pay amateurs because the GAA raise money for the excehquer. Is that your entire justification for the scheme?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
No he wouldn't.

Yes he would. All IC plauers are entitled to the grant.

QuoteLets break this down. There is a scheme, being abolished, that makes it easier for football, rugby and baskeball to attract talent.

So what why should the tax payer pay for professional teams to attract talent?

QuoteThats your opinion. What is the difference in commitment between a top amateur rugby player, soccer player and hurler? Why should the GAA player get a few quid from the taxpayer and not the rugby player?

It's more than that, it is a fact, and I have been involved in the fitness testing of both to know, I played Munster senior league soccer and IC football so I know a bit about those levels of sport too.

QuoteWhy are they more worthy of tax money? Because you prefer watching them.

No because they create more money for the exchequer than the others so they are at least paying for their way.

QuoteDo you actually understand whats going on here?

Jesus wept,the question is do you?

QuoteThe government should pay amateurs because the GAA raise money for the excehquer. Is that your entire justification for the scheme?

Ehh no, and this from the man who justified paying players on the basis of a feelgood factor, a nonexistent one for LoI players I might add. I'm not arguing for the grant I'm saying that cutting it is not justified if we can still afford to pay professional players. Laughably you are saying it is ridiculous to pay a small amount of money to players who add a huge amount to Irish sport and bring in massive amounts of money to the exchequer yet we should pay to keep LoI, basketball and rugby teams competitive?

QuoteYes he would. All IC plauers are entitled to the grant.

Go away and check your facts, he wouldn't.

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
But your argument for retaining them is to keep rugby teams competitive, why don't we use tax payers money to make LoI teams competitive, who would then bring even more money in than rugby? You can't argue for tax breaks for rugby players just to keep them competitive, especially when amateur players who do a huge amount for this country are getting cut, if one does then so should the other, simple as.

The government did not make rugby competitive it was the IRFU, they were the people who built their team around Irish players playing in Ireland and the Tax Relief made that alot easier. As for the LOI are you suggesting that the government pump millions into it to make it competitive?

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 05:33:51 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
But your argument for retaining them is to keep rugby teams competitive, why don't we use tax payers money to make LoI teams competitive, who would then bring even more money in than rugby? You can't argue for tax breaks for rugby players just to keep them competitive, especially when amateur players who do a huge amount for this country are getting cut, if one does then so should the other, simple as.

Do you actually understand whats going on here?

The government should pay amateurs because the GAA raise money for the excehquer. Is that your entire justification for the scheme?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
No he wouldn't.

Yes he would. All IC plauers are entitled to the grant.

How come he gets 5k and the tyrone team all got less than €2500 each

as you say yourself do you want to phone a friend

Quote from: Tankie on June 17, 2009, 05:45:42 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
But your argument for retaining them is to keep rugby teams competitive, why don't we use tax payers money to make LoI teams competitive, who would then bring even more money in than rugby? You can't argue for tax breaks for rugby players just to keep them competitive, especially when amateur players who do a huge amount for this country are getting cut, if one does then so should the other, simple as.

The government did not make rugby competitive it was the IRFU, they were the people who built their team around Irish players playing in Ireland and the Tax Relief made that alot easier. As for the LOI are you suggesting that the government pump millions into it to make it competitive?

No that is Gnevins argument, the tax relief may have made it easier for the provinces to become competitive but in these changed times if sports are being hit then there is no reason that rugby players shouldn't be hit as well. If that means they lose players then so be it, they are professional teams playing a professional sport, there is no reason for the tax payer to help keep them competitive.

All tax breaks need to be looked at at present with the state of shite the country is in. I'm not really in favour of a lot of tax breaks in general terms.

Specifically sport related - the GAA grants (or expenses if you are pretending to be amateur or talking to the taxman) should never have been introduced for at least two reasons. Firstly, GAA players are and should remain amateurs. Secondly, the impetus behind it was given by an equally wrong decision to allow professional sportspeople a tax break. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I've dealt with the tax break for pro sportspeople - a complete joke in my view. I still don't understand why it was introduced. Was it so Bertie could be mates with Drico, Robbie and the lads? How many jobs did it create? A joke.

With the state the country is in there is no justification for handouts to so-called "amateurs" or pro sportspeople.

The horse industry gets huge tax breaks and this irks me greatly. I see lots of rich men and women profiting from this and it makes me feel somethnig isn't right about it. However, a fair number of jobs are in existence because of these breaks so even though I find them unpalatable I'd stick with them, certainly for the next 5-10 years.

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 17, 2009, 05:54:59 PM
All tax breaks need to be looked at at present with the state of shite the country is in. I'm not really in favour of a lot of tax breaks in general terms.

Specifically sport related - the GAA grants (or expenses if you are pretending to be amateur or talking to the taxman) should never have been introduced for at least two reasons. Firstly, GAA players are and should remain amateurs. Secondly, the impetus behind it was given by an equally wrong decision to allow professional sportspeople a tax break. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I've dealt with the tax break for pro sportspeople - a complete joke in my view. I still don't understand why it was introduced. Was it so Bertie could be mates with Drico, Robbie and the lads? How many jobs did it create? A joke.

With the state the country is in there is no justification for handouts to so-called "amateurs" or pro sportspeople.

The horse industry gets huge tax breaks and this irks me greatly. I see lots of rich men and women profiting from this and it makes me feel somethnig isn't right about it. However, a fair number of jobs are in existence because of these breaks so even though I find them unpalatable I'd stick with them, certainly for the next 5-10 years.

Well there are now 4 professional rugby teams in Ireland with very large attedances,new stadiums being built, then there is the Heineken Cup and all the tourism spin offs we get for that....jobs were created there if you ask me.....

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 17, 2009, 05:54:59 PM
All tax breaks need to be looked at at present with the state of shite the country is in. I'm not really in favour of a lot of tax breaks in general terms.

Specifically sport related - the GAA grants (or expenses if you are pretending to be amateur or talking to the taxman) should never have been introduced for at least two reasons. Firstly, GAA players are and should remain amateurs. Secondly, the impetus behind it was given by an equally wrong decision to allow professional sportspeople a tax break. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I've dealt with the tax break for pro sportspeople - a complete joke in my view. I still don't understand why it was introduced. Was it so Bertie could be mates with Drico, Robbie and the lads? How many jobs did it create? A joke.

With the state the country is in there is no justification for handouts to so-called "amateurs" or pro sportspeople.

The horse industry gets huge tax breaks and this irks me greatly. I see lots of rich men and women profiting from this and it makes me feel somethnig isn't right about it. However, a fair number of jobs are in existence because of these breaks so even though I find them unpalatable I'd stick with them, certainly for the next 5-10 years.

Handouts? Is that what you call it? So you don't think that the players hard work and commitment should be rewarded with grants, the same way the athletes in this country are?
I mean the men in charge of the GAA all get paid, the players put in just as much, more even, they are professional in everything but name, now I'm not suggesting it turn pro or anything, but why should they not be recognised for their incredibly hard work and sacrifice? Do they not deserve that? Like no ones asking for the GAA to turn pro, so why should they suffer because some believe that it's a step towards turning the game pro.

No ones pretending to be amateurs, but find me an amateur sport that attracts 80,000 people to one stadium each year.

Quote from: Tankie on June 17, 2009, 06:04:48 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 17, 2009, 05:54:59 PM
All tax breaks need to be looked at at present with the state of shite the country is in. I'm not really in favour of a lot of tax breaks in general terms.

Specifically sport related - the GAA grants (or expenses if you are pretending to be amateur or talking to the taxman) should never have been introduced for at least two reasons. Firstly, GAA players are and should remain amateurs. Secondly, the impetus behind it was given by an equally wrong decision to allow professional sportspeople a tax break. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I've dealt with the tax break for pro sportspeople - a complete joke in my view. I still don't understand why it was introduced. Was it so Bertie could be mates with Drico, Robbie and the lads? How many jobs did it create? A joke.

With the state the country is in there is no justification for handouts to so-called "amateurs" or pro sportspeople.

The horse industry gets huge tax breaks and this irks me greatly. I see lots of rich men and women profiting from this and it makes me feel somethnig isn't right about it. However, a fair number of jobs are in existence because of these breaks so even though I find them unpalatable I'd stick with them, certainly for the next 5-10 years.

Well there are now 4 professional rugby teams in Ireland with very large attedances,new stadiums being built, then there is the Heineken Cup and all the tourism spin offs we get for that....jobs were created there if you ask me.....

Tankie why do you talk about things in such simplistic terms. All those stadia were built by taxpayers money. Wake up and smell the coffee .What tourism spin offs are there for Irish people watching Irish teams play?
French supporters come in their hundreds- you might get a couple of thousand welsh fans max. That does not jutify those sort of tax breaks in my view. We don't even have the TV rights to the HEC for Gods sake.

QuoteWell there are now 4 professional rugby teams in Ireland with very large attedances,new stadiums being built, then there is the Heineken Cup and all the tourism spin offs we get for that....jobs were created there if you ask me.....

The GAA do all that, except perhaps the tourist bit but as Indiana points out the numbers attending Ireland due to that isn't really all that big and many of them come and go on the same day. So lets see we should continue to pay rugby players - to keep the teams competitive, which leads to jobs (hmmm) and tourists (hmmm), yeah I don't accept that at all.

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 17, 2009, 05:54:59 PM
All tax breaks need to be looked at at present with the state of shite the country is in. I'm not really I've dealt with the tax break for pro sportspeople - a complete joke in my view. I still don't understand why it was introduced.

It was b*******ks McCreevy looking after his Kildare racing mates (jockeys). The Ruggerbuggers and the paid Soccer lot just happened to be in the right place in the right time.
We have €90Bn or more to save Bankers and Developers from their just desserts but we have no money to give a little token to people who are keeeping our culture alive or for cervical screening not to mention all the other things we cant afford.

Quote from: Rossfan on June 17, 2009, 06:25:23 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 17, 2009, 05:54:59 PM
All tax breaks need to be looked at at present with the state of shite the country is in. I'm not really I've dealt with the tax break for pro sportspeople - a complete joke in my view. I still don't understand why it was introduced.

It was b*******ks McCreevy looking after his Kildare racing mates (jockeys). The Ruggerbuggers and the paid Soccer lot just happened to be in the right place in the right time.
We have €90Bn or more to save Bankers and Developers from their just desserts but we have no money to give a little token to people who are keeeping our culture alive or for cervical screening not to mention all the other things we cant afford.

[/b]


Well said !

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 04:54:33 PM
If the carlow third choice hurling goalkeeper is worth €5,000 a year to the taxpayer, why not the Tralee Dynamos midfielder or Shannon out half?

If you're going to argue, at least know what you're talking about.

The total of €3.5 million will be divided out to players, where they're expected to receive between €1,400-€2,500 each depending on performance in the Championship.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0318/gaa.html
I'd expect Carlow hurlers to be towards the lower end of that scale. Also, i'm unsure as to how many county panels carry a third choice keeper.

Is it just me or has dublinfella been caught out talking balls again...? ::)

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:52:36 PM

Quote from: Tankie on June 17, 2009, 05:45:42 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
But your argument for retaining them is to keep rugby teams competitive, why don't we use tax payers money to make LoI teams competitive, who would then bring even more money in than rugby? You can't argue for tax breaks for rugby players just to keep them competitive, especially when amateur players who do a huge amount for this country are getting cut, if one does then so should the other, simple as.

The government did not make rugby competitive it was the IRFU, they were the people who built their team around Irish players playing in Ireland and the Tax Relief made that alot easier. As for the LOI are you suggesting that the government pump millions into it to make it competitive?

No that is Gnevins argument, the tax relief may have made it easier for the provinces to become competitive but in these changed times if sports are being hit then there is no reason that rugby players shouldn't be hit as well. If that means they lose players then so be it, they are professional teams playing a professional sport, there is no reason for the tax payer to help keep them competitive.

No it's not. My argument is that it has helped and removing it won't help Rugby's competitiveness  and for the second time I repeating this  it won't help the governments tax take in the long term

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 06:20:02 PM

QuoteWell there are now 4 professional rugby teams in Ireland with very large attedances,new stadiums being built, then there is the Heineken Cup and all the tourism spin offs we get for that....jobs were created there if you ask me.....

The GAA do all that, except perhaps the tourist bit but as Indiana points out the numbers attending Ireland due to that isn't really all that big and many of them come and go on the same day. So lets see we should continue to pay rugby players - to keep the teams competitive, which leads to jobs (hmmm) and tourists (hmmm), yeah I don't accept that at all.

Keeping money in the country is nearly as good as getting outside money in.

QuoteNo it's not. My argument is that it has helped and removing it won't help Rugby's competitiveness.

Yes, so you are justifying the tax break on the basis that it helps keep certain professional sports teams competitive and that isn't a reasonable way for tax payers money to be spent. If a team goes professional then it should stand or fall on its own two feet.

QuoteKeeping money in the country is nearly as good and getting outside money in.

Sorry?

QuoteThe French are trying money at players at the moment.

So?

Quote

QuoteKeeping money in the country is nearly as good and getting outside money in.

Sorry?

What don't you understand, sporting matches such as GAA and Rugby help generate money for the local economy, the government is  taking money from  sports that will hit the governments tax take down the road .

Quote

QuoteThe French are trying money at players at the moment.

So?

Mid wanted to know where the player would go and I suggested France.

QuoteWhat don't you understand, sporting matches such as GAA and Rugby help generate money for the local economy, the government is  taking money from  sports that will hit the governments tax take down the road .

How do you make that out, it won't effect the money generated by the GAA, it might effect that of rugby but there are many reasons players stay in Ireland and if players get less money and that is enough for them to leave then so be it. If that makes our provinces less competitive then so be it, like I said if we accept the tax payer propping up professional teams because of the money we will get back through away fans etc. then you would agree with the tax payer giving money to some soccer clubs as they could bring in massive money if they were doing well in the champions league. Now I accept that would never happen but it is only an extension of teh argument you are making, i.e. the tax payer should partly fund players to help keep professional rugby teams competitive, with no guarantee that they would remain compeitive anyway.

QuoteMid wanted to know where the player would go and I suggested France.

Well fine if they want to go to France good luck to them.

Quote
"The scheme gave inter-county players some much-needed revenue and status, and that status would be removed if the scheme is cut," the GPA said in a statement to the Irish Independent.

Revenue... ok.. I can accept.

Much needed? Hmmm, that is a dubious assertion.


Status? If anything it has devalued their status.

But what do you expect from the GPA but bullshit.

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 06:59:56 PM

QuoteNo it's not. My argument is that it has helped and removing it won't help Rugby's competitiveness.

Yes, so you are justifying the tax break on the basis that it helps keep certain professional sports teams competitive and that isn't a reasonable way for tax payers money to be spent. If a team goes professional then it should stand or fall on its own two feet.

No, no and no .  Clearly your too busy being on your high horse to read what I'm saying so I'll let you rant on too yourself.

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 07:24:59 PM

QuoteWhat don't you understand, sporting matches such as GAA and Rugby help generate money for the local economy, the government is  taking money from  sports that will hit the governments tax take down the road .

How do you make that out, it won't effect the money generated by the GAA, it might effect that of rugby but there are many reasons players stay in Ireland and if players get less money and that is enough for them to leave then so be it. If that makes our provinces less competitive then so be it, like I said if we accept the tax payer propping up professional teams because of the money we will get back through away fans etc. then you would agree with the tax payer giving money to some soccer clubs as they could bring in massive money if they were doing well in the champions league. Now I accept that would never happen but it is only an extension of teh argument you are making, i.e. the tax payer should partly fund players to help keep professional rugby teams competitive, with no guarantee that they would remain compeitive anyway.

QuoteMid wanted to know where the player would go and I suggested France.

Well fine if they want to go to France good luck to them.

Soccer player get the same as Rugby players.

Will there still be (presumably free) seats in the VIP area at Croke Park for the government ministers at this year AI finals. Time we started to sell those seats instead to create 'much needed extra revenue'.

QuoteNo, no and no .  Clearly your too busy being on your high horse to read what I'm saying so I'll let you rant on too yourself.

Will you go away out of it, what high horse, what rant? If I'm taking you up wrong then maybe you could clarify rather than talking nonsense about ranting etc.

So do you think that the tax payer should help fund the playing squads of professional rugby and soccer teams?

And if so why?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 08:15:53 PM

QuoteNo, no and no .  Clearly your too busy being on your high horse to read what I'm saying so I'll let you rant on too yourself.

Will you go away out of it, what high horse, what rant? If I'm taking you up wrong then maybe you could clarify rather than talking nonsense about ranting etc.

So do you think that the tax payer should help fund the playing squads of professional rugby and soccer teams?

And if so why?

It's not funding it's a tax breaks but call what you will.  Yes, for the same reason we "fund" the arts and public broadcasting and NPO and other sports. However unlike other sports, NPO, public broadcasting and the arts, the "funding" of Rugby and GAA pays for it self if VAT alone . Of course unlike the funding Rugby the GAA paid for itself at the Dublin V Meath game alone and the government have the cheek to want to pull it.

Have you been reading my posts at all? I have no problem with the tax breaks for professional rugby players as long as the GAA players still get their grant, I've simply argued if one goes then so should the other. Now whether either set of players should get any funding at all (and it is funding, in so much as it is coming out of government coffers) is a seperate argument and I can see merit in it but that isn't what I was debating.

People are all talking about revenue and benefit to the economy bla bla.
Any time a northern team plays in Croke Park, it brings an external benefit to the economy; a point i feel is being missed ............. so theres a plan - ensure the last 4 in the football championship are all northern teams for the duration of the recession !
And interesting to see Dublinfella on here shouting from the corner again - to get rid of the GAA grant and keep the tax break for professional sports people  ............. so not alone have
Shamrock Rovers a free stadium but now the actual 'package' they will be able to offer players from abroad will be artifically 40% more competitive   ::)

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 09:25:42 PM
Have you been reading my posts at all? I have no problem with the tax breaks for professional rugby players as long as the GAA players still get their grant, I've simply argued if one goes then so should the other. Now whether either set of players should get any funding at all (and it is funding, in so much as it is coming out of government coffers) is a seperate argument and I can see merit in it but that isn't what I was debating.

So we are in agreement so. 4 pages of us discussing actually how we are in agreement  ;) ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 09:59:33 AM

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:32:03 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 09:21:40 AM

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:16:27 AM
You live by the sword...

In what way are they living by the sword?

... you die by the sword.  Aimed at the GPA rather than players

You can't whinge like feck for a slice of the pie in the good times, then whinge like feck when the pie is all eaten.  Dessie sounds a bit malcontent.

I know the expression I just can't see how it applies here . The GAA generates far more money for the economy that these grants cost. Look at all the money the greyhounds get off the government where are the cut backs there?

The IGB recieved a capital grant of E3.5 million for the past year, a reduction of 9% and the word on the ground is that it will face another substantial reduction in the next budget. The greyhound industry in Ireland supports 11,000 jobs and generates economic activity in the region of E500 million. Promised funding for stadia redevelopments for the tracks in Clonmel and Thurles has been cancelled and the additional jobs that would have been created have been lost.

Quote from: oakleafgael on June 17, 2009, 10:15:03 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 09:59:33 AM

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:32:03 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 17, 2009, 09:21:40 AM

Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 09:16:27 AM
You live by the sword...

In what way are they living by the sword?

... you die by the sword.  Aimed at the GPA rather than players

You can't whinge like feck for a slice of the pie in the good times, then whinge like feck when the pie is all eaten.  Dessie sounds a bit malcontent.

I know the expression I just can't see how it applies here . The GAA generates far more money for the economy that these grants cost. Look at all the money the greyhounds get off the government where are the cut backs there?

The IGB recieved a capital grant of E3.5 million for the past year, a reduction of 9% and the word on the ground is that it will face another substantial reduction in the next budget. The greyhound industry in Ireland supports 11,000 jobs and generates economic activity in the region of E500 million. Promised funding for stadia redevelopments for the tracks in Clonmel and Thurles has been cancelled and the additional jobs that would have been created have been lost.

Penny  smart , pound foolish.

Quote from: Reillers on June 17, 2009, 06:06:10 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 17, 2009, 05:54:59 PM
All tax breaks need to be looked at at present with the state of shite the country is in. I'm not really in favour of a lot of tax breaks in general terms.

Specifically sport related - the GAA grants (or expenses if you are pretending to be amateur or talking to the taxman) should never have been introduced for at least two reasons. Firstly, GAA players are and should remain amateurs. Secondly, the impetus behind it was given by an equally wrong decision to allow professional sportspeople a tax break. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I've dealt with the tax break for pro sportspeople - a complete joke in my view. I still don't understand why it was introduced. Was it so Bertie could be mates with Drico, Robbie and the lads? How many jobs did it create? A joke.

With the state the country is in there is no justification for handouts to so-called "amateurs" or pro sportspeople.

The horse industry gets huge tax breaks and this irks me greatly. I see lots of rich men and women profiting from this and it makes me feel somethnig isn't right about it. However, a fair number of jobs are in existence because of these breaks so even though I find them unpalatable I'd stick with them, certainly for the next 5-10 years.

Handouts? Is that what you call it? So you don't think that the players hard work and commitment should be rewarded with grants, the same way the athletes in this country are?
I mean the men in charge of the GAA all get paid, the players put in just as much, more even, they are professional in everything but name, now I'm not suggesting it turn pro or anything, but why should they not be recognised for their incredibly hard work and sacrifice? Do they not deserve that? Like no ones asking for the GAA to turn pro, so why should they suffer because some believe that it's a step towards turning the game pro.

No ones pretending to be amateurs, but find me an amateur sport that attracts 80,000 people to one stadium each year.

Did you read my post at all before you started your rant?

Quote from: Zulu on June 17, 2009, 06:59:56 PM


Yes, so you are justifying the tax break on the basis that it helps keep certain professional sports teams competitive and that isn't a reasonable way for tax payers money to be spent. If a team goes professional then it should stand or fall on its own two feet.

I'm confused, are you arguing that the state should pay GAA players or not?

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 17, 2009, 06:34:21 PM

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 04:54:33 PM
If the carlow third choice hurling goalkeeper is worth €5,000 a year to the taxpayer, why not the Tralee Dynamos midfielder or Shannon out half?

If you're going to argue, at least know what you're talking about.

The total of €3.5 million will be divided out to players, where they're expected to receive between €1,400-€2,500 each depending on performance in the Championship.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0318/gaa.html
I'd expect Carlow hurlers to be towards the lower end of that scale. Also, i'm unsure as to how many county panels carry a third choice keeper.

Right, replace €5,000 €2,500. The point remains.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 18, 2009, 11:12:06 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 17, 2009, 06:34:21 PM

Quote from: dublinfella on June 17, 2009, 04:54:33 PM
If the carlow third choice hurling goalkeeper is worth €5,000 a year to the taxpayer, why not the Tralee Dynamos midfielder or Shannon out half?

If you're going to argue, at least know what you're talking about.

The total of €3.5 million will be divided out to players, where they're expected to receive between €1,400-€2,500 each depending on performance in the Championship.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0318/gaa.html
I'd expect Carlow hurlers to be towards the lower end of that scale. Also, i'm unsure as to how many county panels carry a third choice keeper.

Right, replace €5,000 €2,500. The point remains.

Can you not read? The point doesn't remain.
Carlow hurlers are more likely to receive €1,400. Also, we haven't determined whether they even have a third choice keeper.

Your point was whether they were worth €5,000 per year to the tax payer. That point is irrelevant as they're only getting about a third of that.

€2,500 for those playing through to September is a pretty insignificant sum and in the context of what the GAA generates in taxes, the burden on the tax payer minimal.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 12:44:40 PM

Can you not read? The point doesn't remain.
Carlow hurlers are more likely to receive €1,400. Also, we haven't determined whether they even have a third choice keeper.

Your point was whether they were worth €5,000 per year to the tax payer. That point is irrelevant as they're only getting about a third of that.

€2,500 for those playing through to September is a pretty insignificant sum and in the context of what the GAA generates in taxes, the burden on the tax payer minimal.

If its so insignificant and have a minimal impact, sure why don't the GAA fund it?

I generate loads in poxy taxes, am I entitled to be paid for my hobbies? Or of more pressing relevance, will other sports not be entitled to it as well?

Its a bad scheme and I'm happy its shelved for a number of reasons, not least that paying GAA players is not a role the state should be involved it.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 18, 2009, 01:36:05 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 12:44:40 PM

Can you not read? The point doesn't remain.
Carlow hurlers are more likely to receive €1,400. Also, we haven't determined whether they even have a third choice keeper.

Your point was whether they were worth €5,000 per year to the tax payer. That point is irrelevant as they're only getting about a third of that.

€2,500 for those playing through to September is a pretty insignificant sum and in the context of what the GAA generates in taxes, the burden on the tax payer minimal.

If its so insignificant and have a minimal impact, sure why don't the GAA fund it?

I generate loads in poxy taxes, am I entitled to be paid for my hobbies? Or of more pressing relevance, will other sports not be entitled to it as well?

Its a bad scheme and I'm happy its shelved for a number of reasons, not least that paying GAA players is not a role the state should be involved it.

I think it has been explained many times as to why the GAA doesn't fund it. If you don't know the answer to this question by now, you really shouldn't be engaging in this debate.

You might generate plenty of taxes, but do your hobbies? And I though other sports people did get grants?

And you need to keep up - latest developments (as of yesterday) are that the level of the grant will be reduced but the scheme will not be shelved. I think that's fair enough, given that people in general employment are taking pay cuts at the current time.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 18, 2009, 01:36:05 PM

paying GAA players is not a role the state should be involved it.

But alright to spend millions on a free Stadium for a useless shower of sponging Soccer cnuts.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 18, 2009, 01:36:05 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 12:44:40 PM

Can you not read? The point doesn't remain.
Carlow hurlers are more likely to receive €1,400. Also, we haven't determined whether they even have a third choice keeper.

Your point was whether they were worth €5,000 per year to the tax payer. That point is irrelevant as they're only getting about a third of that.

€2,500 for those playing through to September is a pretty insignificant sum and in the context of what the GAA generates in taxes, the burden on the tax payer minimal.

If its so insignificant and have a minimal impact, sure why don't the GAA fund it?

I generate loads in poxy taxes, am I entitled to be paid for my hobbies? Or of more pressing relevance, will other sports not be entitled to it as well?

Its a bad scheme and I'm happy its shelved for a number of reasons, not least that paying GAA players is not a role the state should be involved it.

The fact your on here claiming to a GAA fan is laughable.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 18, 2009, 10:09:12 AM
I'm confused

Your always confused Roversbore  ;)

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 05:36:12 PM

Quote from: dublinfella on June 18, 2009, 01:36:05 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 12:44:40 PM

Can you not read? The point doesn't remain.
Carlow hurlers are more likely to receive €1,400. Also, we haven't determined whether they even have a third choice keeper.

Your point was whether they were worth €5,000 per year to the tax payer. That point is irrelevant as they're only getting about a third of that.

€2,500 for those playing through to September is a pretty insignificant sum and in the context of what the GAA generates in taxes, the burden on the tax payer minimal.

If its so insignificant and have a minimal impact, sure why don't the GAA fund it?

I generate loads in poxy taxes, am I entitled to be paid for my hobbies? Or of more pressing relevance, will other sports not be entitled to it as well?

Its a bad scheme and I'm happy its shelved for a number of reasons, not least that paying GAA players is not a role the state should be involved it.

I think it has been explained many times as to why the GAA doesn't fund it. If you don't know the answer to this question by now, you really shouldn't be engaging in this debate.

You might generate plenty of taxes, but do your hobbies? And I though other sports people did get grants?

And you need to keep up - latest developments (as of yesterday) are that the level of the grant will be reduced but the scheme will not be shelved. I think that's fair enough, given that people in general employment are taking pay cuts at the current time.

The GAA won't fund it because they claim they can't afford it. But according to you its an 'insignificant' amount. €35m would pay for the smear tests the Dept of Health cancelled for lack of funds.

No other team game in Ireland gets these grants, only Olympians.

The sense of entitlement from some in the GAA on this is worrying.

Quote from: Rossfan on June 18, 2009, 06:54:54 PM


But alright to spend millions on a free Stadium for a useless shower of sponging Soccer cnuts.

Free?

I think there is a slight difference between the state providing sports infrastructure for the community, which all sports fans will agree is a good thing, and the state directly paying players.

You believe the state should give a tax break to professional players who already get well paid because of a 'feelgood' factor so you haven't a leg to stand on.

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 12:24:14 PM
You believe the state should give a tax break to professional players who already get well paid because of a 'feelgood' factor so you haven't a leg to stand on.

No, I said its entirely irrelevant to the debate about GAA payers getting paid by the state.

Jesus you are confused DF, you can't even follow your own argument, this is what you said as justification for the tax breaks for rugby and soccer players in relation to keeping these teams competitive......

QuoteBeccause there is a feelgood factor in having the best in Ireland. I think it should be folded as its a frivolity we can't afford, but what harm in giving Leinster and Munster an advantage?

So you think that amateur players who bring in far more than they get from the government aren't entitled to any assistance from the government while professional players who already get well paid deserve a tax break?

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 01:38:29 PM
So you think that amateur players who bring in far more than they get from the government aren't entitled to any assistance from the government while professional players who already get well paid deserve a tax break?

I said I don't think its the best use of tax resources, but don't have a huge problem with it. I am into sport, and if it helps attract world class players to rugby and a better calibre to the LoI, so what?

But I see no link between that scheme and the IC GAA grant one.

I cannot understand the logic that because the GAA through bars in clubhouses raise VAT that IC players should get paid by the government. By that logic the 6 counties players should be excluded.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 19, 2009, 11:20:02 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 05:36:12 PM

Quote from: dublinfella on June 18, 2009, 01:36:05 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 12:44:40 PM

Can you not read? The point doesn't remain.
Carlow hurlers are more likely to receive €1,400. Also, we haven't determined whether they even have a third choice keeper.

Your point was whether they were worth €5,000 per year to the tax payer. That point is irrelevant as they're only getting about a third of that.

€2,500 for those playing through to September is a pretty insignificant sum and in the context of what the GAA generates in taxes, the burden on the tax payer minimal.

If its so insignificant and have a minimal impact, sure why don't the GAA fund it?

I generate loads in poxy taxes, am I entitled to be paid for my hobbies? Or of more pressing relevance, will other sports not be entitled to it as well?

Its a bad scheme and I'm happy its shelved for a number of reasons, not least that paying GAA players is not a role the state should be involved it.

I think it has been explained many times as to why the GAA doesn't fund it. If you don't know the answer to this question by now, you really shouldn't be engaging in this debate.

You might generate plenty of taxes, but do your hobbies? And I though other sports people did get grants?

And you need to keep up - latest developments (as of yesterday) are that the level of the grant will be reduced but the scheme will not be shelved. I think that's fair enough, given that people in general employment are taking pay cuts at the current time.

The GAA won't fund it because they claim they can't afford it. But according to you its an 'insignificant' amount. €35m would pay for the smear tests the Dept of Health cancelled for lack of funds.

No other team game in Ireland gets these grants, only Olympians.

The sense of entitlement from some in the GAA on this is worrying.

What is significant to the Government and what's significant to the GAA aren't the same thing. Anyway, that's irrelevant - the GAA aren't paying out because that would undermine their amateur ethos, it's not about the monetary amount.

And who's talking about £35m? I thought it was £3.5m?

Quote from: dublinfella on June 19, 2009, 11:21:32 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 18, 2009, 06:54:54 PM


But alright to spend millions on a free Stadium for a useless shower of sponging Soccer cnuts.

Free?

I think there is a slight difference between the state providing sports infrastructure for the community, which all sports fans will agree is a good thing, and the state directly paying players.

The state is giving grants to players not paying them. Do you have a problem with the grants the state gives to multinationals, the arts  and culture?

QuoteI said I don't think its the best use of tax resources, but don't have a huge problem with it. I am into sport, and if it helps attract world class players to rugby and a better calibre to the LoI, so what?

So you have no problem with the state propping up sport clubs because it helps bring in better players (or retain them) but you don't think the government should provide grants to players who put in a massive committment to their sport? The money that the government gains through big games (not clubhouse bars) is far in excess of what they are paying out through grants.  By the way, by not paying the players the GAA has been able to provide a sporting infrastructure that would have cost the state billions over the years. And still you think the minimal amout the government is giving the players is an issue? Let me ask you this (as a lover of sport) do you think the government should pay if the players said they would stop playing, surely you feel they should as you think the tax break is justified to keep top players from other sports in this country?

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:20:01 PM

So you have no problem with the state propping up sport clubs because it helps bring in better players (or retain them) but you don't think the government should provide grants to players who put in a massive committment to their sport? The money that the government gains through big games (not clubhouse bars) is far in excess of what they are paying out through grants.  By the way, by not paying the players the GAA has been able to provide a sporting infrastructure that would have cost the state billions over the years. And still you think the minimal amout the government is giving the players is an issue? Let me ask you this (as a lover of sport) do you think the government should pay if the players said they would stop playing, surely you feel they should as you think the tax break is justified to keep top players from other sports in this country?

I don't think showing commitment to a hobby entitles you to a handout from the state.

What money does the Govt gain from big games by the way? If anything that is an argument for grants towords infrastructure, which the GAA get.

Quote from: Gnevin on June 19, 2009, 02:10:10 PM


The state is giving grants to players not paying them. Do you have a problem with the grants the state gives to multinationals, the arts  and culture?

None whatsoever. But of those, arts are the only ones that get grants and in that case its to subsidise people to make a living in something that as a society we deem important to have - musicians, artists, writers.

I don't think GAA players fall into that category.

Put another way. If as its rumoured the grant is abolished, can you see many people stopping playing as a result? Not me.

QuoteWhat money does the Govt gain from big games by the way? If anything that is an argument for grants towords infrastructure, which the GAA get.

Tax on tickets, food, drink etc. I'll put it another way, if the IC scene folded up at the end of the year would the government be out of pocket next year?

QuotePut another way. If as its rumoured the grant is abolished, can you see many people stopping playing as a result? Not me.

And if it was abolished for artists would painters stop painting or musicians stop playing?

If you were arguing that neither IC GAA players or LoI/rugby players should get any tax breaks I could see your argument and it would at least be consistent. But you don't have a problem with sports people who already get well paid getting a further (government paid) bonus while amateurs, who by the way, provide far more to this country than any painter get nothing. The grant was justified on the basis that soccer and rugby players were getting this tax break, if both go, fine but there is no justification for keeping one and getting rid of the other.

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
Tax on tickets, food, drink etc.

There are no taxes on tickets for or admission to GAA games.
People must eat regardless of whether they attend intercounty games.
Claiming responsibility for x number of millions of Euro spent on drink every year might well harm the GAA's reputation.

The bottom line for me out of this debate is very simple. there are too many people out of work in this country to be giving grants to GAA players and tax breaks to highly paid professional players. Both should be scrapped in my opinion.

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:53:22 PM

Tax on tickets, food, drink etc. I'll put it another way, if the IC scene folded up at the end of the year would the government be out of pocket next year?

No VAT on tickets in the 26, so to answer your question, no. In fact it would save on the amount of Gardai it has to deploy.

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
And if it was abolished for artists would painters stop painting or musicians stop playing?

As a living, probably.

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
If you were arguing that neither IC GAA players or LoI/rugby players should get any tax breaks I could see your argument and it would at least be consistent. But you don't have a problem with sports people who already get well paid getting a further (government paid) bonus while amateurs, who by the way, provide far more to this country than any painter get nothing. The grant was justified on the basis that soccer and rugby players were getting this tax break, if both go, fine but there is no justification for keeping one and getting rid of the other.

Again, I think there are two seperate arguments. You can't justify paying amateurs on an economic basis. Its ludicrious.

I have said that the tax break for professional sportsmen should go in the current climate.

Quote from: dublinfella on June 19, 2009, 02:43:41 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 19, 2009, 02:10:10 PM


The state is giving grants to players not paying them. Do you have a problem with the grants the state gives to multinationals, the arts  and culture?

None whatsoever. But of those, arts are the only ones that get grants and in that case its to subsidise people to make a living in something that as a society we deem important to have - musicians, artists, writers.

I don't think GAA players fall into that category.

Put another way. If as its rumoured the grant is abolished, can you see many people stopping playing as a result? Not me.

So in other words the big sport and cultural organisation in the country isn't important to society. ;D ;D ;D That's a good one but can you be serious in your next reply

Quote from: dublinfella on June 19, 2009, 03:27:21 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:53:22 PM

Tax on tickets, food, drink etc. I'll put it another way, if the IC scene folded up at the end of the year would the government be out of pocket next year?

No VAT on tickets in the 26, so to answer your question, no. In fact it would save on the amount of Gardai it has to deploy.

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
And if it was abolished for artists would painters stop painting or musicians stop playing?

As a living, probably.

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
If you were arguing that neither IC GAA players or LoI/rugby players should get any tax breaks I could see your argument and it would at least be consistent. But you don't have a problem with sports people who already get well paid getting a further (government paid) bonus while amateurs, who by the way, provide far more to this country than any painter get nothing. The grant was justified on the basis that soccer and rugby players were getting this tax break, if both go, fine but there is no justification for keeping one and getting rid of the other.

Again, I think there are two seperate arguments. You can't justify paying amateurs on an economic basis. Its ludicrious.

I have said that the tax break for professional sportsmen should go in the current climate.

You mean the same amount of Garda that are required at a All-Ireland as required at a Rovers and Bohs game?

Quote from: cornafean on June 19, 2009, 03:06:59 PM

Quote from: Zulu on June 19, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
Tax on tickets, food, drink etc.

There are no taxes on tickets for or admission to GAA games.
People must eat regardless of whether they attend intercounty games.
Claiming responsibility for x number of millions of Euro spent on drink every year might well harm the GAA's reputation.

Yes but people can eat at home , don't need to get a taxi or drive too the game etc. The GAA and sport keeps wealth in the country.

Quote from: Gnevin on June 19, 2009, 03:52:48 PM

So in other words the big sport and cultural organisation in the country isn't important to society. ;D ;D ;D That's a good one but can you be serious in your next reply

Of course it is, and that is why the GAA get more in capital grants than any other sport for facilities.

There is no correlation between the GAAs sporting and cultural importance and the state paying IC players.

Its an Irish solution. They are still amateur so long as someone else is paying them. Next it will be sponsors handing over cash. And the slippery slope begins.

Quote from: Gnevin on June 19, 2009, 03:59:49 PM
Yes but people can eat at home , don't need to get a taxi or drive too the game etc. The GAA and sport keeps wealth in the country.

Sorry, I don't understand your logic. Driving to and from games doesn't "keep wealth in the country", on the contrary it increases our petrol/diesel imports. And the extra economic benefit to the State of someone eating a bag of chips outside a match in Clones compared to them having their dinner at home while watching the match is marginal to the point of negligible.

Quote from: cornafean on June 19, 2009, 04:24:40 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 19, 2009, 03:59:49 PM
Yes but people can eat at home , don't need to get a taxi or drive too the game etc. The GAA and sport keeps wealth in the country.

Sorry, I don't understand your logic. Driving to and from games doesn't "keep wealth in the country", on the contrary it increases our petrol/diesel imports. And the extra economic benefit to the State of someone eating a bag of chips outside a match in Clones compared to them having their dinner at home while watching the match is marginal to the point of negligible.

I could stay at home watch the match and buy a phone on ebay net lose to the country 200. I go to match a lot of that money is stay in Ireland.

Quote from: Gnevin on June 19, 2009, 05:06:08 PM
I could stay at home watch the match and buy a phone on ebay net lose to the country 200. I go to match a lot of that money is stay in Ireland.

You could just easily buy a crate of Jameson whiskey, log on to BoyleSports, drink yourself into a stupor and lose €200 betting on English horseracing. Even though all your money "stays in Ireland", that doesn't necessarily mean that the State should subsidise alcohol companies, online bookies or English racecourses.

QuoteNo VAT on tickets in the 26, so to answer your question, no. In fact it would save on the amount of Gardai it has to deploy.

That's nonsense, there may be no tax on tickets but the bottom line is there is massive money spent in this country during the year on attending IC games - food, drink, jersey's, flags, hotel accomodation, travel expenses (train tickets etc.) that wouldn't necessarily be spent in this country otherwise. There is also a massive amount of cultural value to IC GAA and it is central to the summers of a huge number of people.

QuoteAs a living, probably.

Again nonsense, I know plenty of musicians making a reasonable living through their talent. Besides a fairer comparison is with rugby and soccer players, they all wouldn't stop playing here if the tax break was abolished.

QuoteAgain, I think there are two seperate arguments. You can't justify paying amateurs on an economic basis. Its ludicrious.

There not getting paid and you justified professionals getting tax breaks on the basis of a feelgood factor and the fact you like to see top level sportsmen in this country, now that is ludicrious.

QuoteI have said that the tax break for professional sportsmen should go in the current climate.

No you didn't, what you said is there is better ways to spend the money but you don't have a problem with the tax breaks for professional players. Now, if like Indiana, you said both should be abolished I could agree with you but there is no argument for keeping one and getting rid of the other.

I'm not justifying the grants as a stand alone issue, I'm justifying them in relation to what LoI or rugby players are getting, which IMO is far more unjustified than what the GAA players are getting.

Quote from: cornafean on June 19, 2009, 05:44:16 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on June 19, 2009, 05:06:08 PM
I could stay at home watch the match and buy a phone on ebay net lose to the country 200. I go to match a lot of that money is stay in Ireland.

You could just easily buy a crate of Jameson whiskey, log on to BoyleSports, drink yourself into a stupor and lose €200 betting on English horseracing. Even though all your money "stays in Ireland", that doesn't necessarily mean that the State should subsidise alcohol companies, online bookies or English racecourses.

I could but a lot of the money spent on GAA days returns directly to the local economy which other wise could and would be lost

Quote©Independent.ie

Cavanagh warns of strike action if grants get the boot


By Donnchadh Boyle

Wednesday June 24 2009

Tyrone star Sean Cavanagh has refused to rule out strike action should the players' grants be withdrawn.

Cavanagh – who also acts as secretary for the Gaelic Players' Association (GPA) – has warned that there may be serious consequences if the funding gets axed. The GPA was given a mandate by its members for strike action in late 2007 before was the funding of €3.5m was granted for the '08 season.

"The general opinion is that players would be pretty angry if GAA players were the only ones singled out," he said. "I would imagine if the GAA grants are completely thrown out, there would be some course of action maybe down the line. On what that might be I'm not too sure.

Angry

"But any players I've been speaking to, and any feedback I've been having from the GPA, is that something would be considered because they have been speaking with players from all different counties and they would be extremely angry if they (the grants) were thrown out the window."

Last season's footballer of the year believes the public would back any move the GPA might make in a bid to keep the funding given the number of inter-county players who are currently out of work. A meeting between Sports Minster, Martin Cullen, and the GPA has been pencilled in for next Monday.

"There are maybe seven or eight guys on the Tyrone squad at the minute who have no work and are seeking employment." he said.

"They really are on the breadline and to those sort of guys a couple of thousand euro towards the end of the year means an awful lot and maybe allows them to have a better Christmas."

Cavanagh also called on the GAA to rescind the red card shown to Derry's Kevin McGuckin after the pair got involved in some handbags in last weekend's Ulster semi-final.

Can someone tell me what Sean Cavanagh is saying here because I can't get a definitive position from those comments

Are they threatening action "of some description" only if it appears the GAA is singled out (which it appears they are not)?

Or

Are they threatening action "of some description" if the GAA grants are removed, end of (regardless of every other institution/orginisation loosing theirs as well)?


Can someone also ask Sean Cavanagh to comment on the plight of all the club players who are also out of work at the minute or are they relevant to the points he's making?

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2009, 12:02:19 PM

Quote©Independent.ie

Cavanagh warns of strike action if grants get the boot


By Donnchadh Boyle

Wednesday June 24 2009

Tyrone star Sean Cavanagh has refused to rule out strike action should the players' grants be withdrawn.

Cavanagh – who also acts as secretary for the Gaelic Players' Association (GPA) – has warned that there may be serious consequences if the funding gets axed. The GPA was given a mandate by its members for strike action in late 2007 before was the funding of €3.5m was granted for the '08 season.

"The general opinion is that players would be pretty angry if GAA players were the only ones singled out," he said. "I would imagine if the GAA grants are completely thrown out, there would be some course of action maybe down the line. On what that might be I'm not too sure.

Angry

"But any players I've been speaking to, and any feedback I've been having from the GPA, is that something would be considered because they have been speaking with players from all different counties and they would be extremely angry if they (the grants) were thrown out the window."

Last season's footballer of the year believes the public would back any move the GPA might make in a bid to keep the funding given the number of inter-county players who are currently out of work. A meeting between Sports Minster, Martin Cullen, and the GPA has been pencilled in for next Monday.

"There are maybe seven or eight guys on the Tyrone squad at the minute who have no work and are seeking employment." he said.

"They really are on the breadline and to those sort of guys a couple of thousand euro towards the end of the year means an awful lot and maybe allows them to have a better Christmas."

There's "pay-for-play" right there in black and white.  ;)

Quote
Cavanagh also called on the GAA to rescind the red card shown to Derry's Kevin McGuckin after the pair got involved in some handbags in last weekend's Ulster semi-final.

Sweet jesus. He is Niall Quinn...  :o

Yes, we believe you Sean, because the footballers of Tyrone, Cork, Mayo, Galway, Kerry, Limerick, Antrim, Cavan, Dublin, Kildare, Westmeath would all down tools at this point in the championship, the same as the hurlers of Galway, Kilkenny, Cork, Waterford, Dublin, Tipp etc. would do at this point in proceedings  ::)

We might see the footballers of Louth, Roscommon, London, Carlow and Waterford going on strike along with maybe 20 hurling teams, but who would care!!

The Cork hurlers or Tyrone footballers won't strike when the ground is good and the real game is on!

Quote from: Louth Exile on June 24, 2009, 03:28:46 PM

The Cork hurlers or Tyrone footballers won't strike when the ground is good and the real game is on!

You're right, because in the event of any 'strike', Tyrone will be fielding a team as agreed at the County Convention in 2007

Quote from: tyrone86 on June 24, 2009, 03:39:56 PM

Quote from: Louth Exile on June 24, 2009, 03:28:46 PM

The Cork hurlers or Tyrone footballers won't strike when the ground is good and the real game is on!

You're right, because in the event of any 'strike', Tyrone will be fielding a team as agreed at the County Convention in 2007

What's Cavanagh mouthing about then?

Is it a case he would call on other men to 'strike' but not Tyrone men?  If that's what it is then he's a hypocrite of the highest order.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 24, 2009, 09:45:39 PM

Quote from: tyrone86 on June 24, 2009, 03:39:56 PM

Quote from: Louth Exile on June 24, 2009, 03:28:46 PM

The Cork hurlers or Tyrone footballers won't strike when the ground is good and the real game is on!

You're right, because in the event of any 'strike', Tyrone will be fielding a team as agreed at the County Convention in 2007

What's Cavanagh mouthing about then?

Is it a case he would call on other men to 'strike' but not Tyrone men?  If that's what it is then he's a hypocrite of the highest order.

He can (and anyone else that way inclined) can strike if they want, the County board have to ensure a Tyrone team takes the field - end of story.

Waiting to see Cavanagh receive all the personal abuse that would be directed at Dessie if he had made the same statements...

Very disapointing bit of sabre rattling from Sean Cavanagh and I doubt very much there are players in the Tyrone squad on the 'breadline' as he calls it. Is an insult to folk who are REALLY on the breadline in this society. Jees! if he knew what it is like to be on the breadline!! This rhetoric diminishes an otherwise great athlete and player.     

I have a distant and fading memory of Dessie Farrell being a great player. Cavanagh will soon join him if he keeps up that incoherant ill considered rubbish

Cavanagh is talking absolute rubbish but he's a bit part of that rabble called the GPA so what would you expect. I'd say he's very much in the minority in Tyrone with his views. People are out of work and these bucks expect a few grand for doing something they love? Loads of lads would love a few hundred for shovelling shite. Perspective is needed.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 24, 2009, 09:45:39 PM

Quote from: tyrone86 on June 24, 2009, 03:39:56 PM

Quote from: Louth Exile on June 24, 2009, 03:28:46 PM

The Cork hurlers or Tyrone footballers won't strike when the ground is good and the real game is on!

You're right, because in the event of any 'strike', Tyrone will be fielding a team as agreed at the County Convention in 2007

What's Cavanagh mouthing about then?

Is it a case he would call on other men to 'strike' but not Tyrone men?  If that's what it is then he's a hypocrite of the highest order.

Maybe he's just throwing out the idea of a strike to see if Cork bite, them potentially being Tyrone's biggest challenge to Sam this year.  :P

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 25, 2009, 10:55:38 AM
Cavanagh is talking absolute rubbish but he's a bit part of that rabble called the GPA so what would you expect. I'd say he's very much in the minority in Tyrone with his views. People are out of work and these bucks expect a few grand for doing something they love? Loads of lads would love a few hundred for shovelling shite. Perspective is needed.

Perspective is needed indeed, and I think it should start with you calling the GPA a rabble, extremely unfair.

Quote from: corn02 on June 25, 2009, 01:08:42 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 25, 2009, 10:55:38 AM
Cavanagh is talking absolute rubbish but he's a bit part of that rabble called the GPA so what would you expect. I'd say he's very much in the minority in Tyrone with his views. People are out of work and these bucks expect a few grand for doing something they love? Loads of lads would love a few hundred for shovelling shite. Perspective is needed.

Perspective is needed indeed, and I think it should start with you calling the GPA a rabble, extremely unfair.

No its not. They talk about recognition - what they want is a % of gate money. I heard no answer to Nickey Brennans speech at congress which tells me all I need to know. A rabble is a kind description to be perfectly honest. Calling "strikes" and delaying matches by 15 minutes. FFS.

With upwards of half a million unemployed, or soon about to be, there will be damn all public sympathy anywhere for anyone who goes on strike in the current climate, whether they are public servants, taxi drivers, airline workers or indeed GAA players. If Sean Cavanagh does not realise this, he is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Poor statement/soundbite from Cavanagh. In the current climate (not the blue sky/hot one), he'll not only receive limited sympathy but it'll actually result in negative publicity for the grants issue.

I'm all for player grants and standing up for those you represent but to use the 'players out of work card' is extremely insensitive and rather dim.

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 25, 2009, 10:55:38 AM
Cavanagh is talking absolute rubbish but he's a bit part of that rabble called the GPA so what would you expect. I'd say he's very much in the minority in Tyrone with his views. People are out of work and these bucks expect a few grand for doing something they love? Loads of lads would love a few hundred for shovelling shite. Perspective is needed.

spot on.

I presume big Sean is talking in a personal capacity, and out of his rear orifice, rather than in his capacity as an executive of the GPA. (I think he is secretary or something).  Although I didn't see the word 'strike' mentioned at all by him, that was an inference drawn by the 'journalist'.

If the GPA do come after the GAA, the only real victims of a 'strike', then they cannot be trusted about anything and I assume the leadership are not that silly.

Surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to strike. You'd be talking about 0% backing from the public.

In fairness, I don't think the word strike was mentioned by Cavanagh. 'Some Action' was mentioned. Sure that could be refusing to shake Brian Cowen's hand in Croker.

Or maybe a military wing: shooting the ball, kidnapping the young fellas who play at half time etc.

The numbers from the IMF are truly shocking. Budget deficit in excess of 10% of GNP. Unemployment to head north of 15%.
Banks will probably have to be nationalised in addition to the NAMA job, 13.5% economic contraction. Every day there is more news of ineptitude and greed on a colossal scale. Today it was an article in the Irish Times about gullible punters who lost money to unscrupulous estate agents selling flats in places like Bulgaria. Yesterday was people who lost all of their deposits to a builder collapsing being told to look on the bright side because the prices of houses had fallen in the meantime. the day before was Setanta. And that's only 3 days' worth.   

If GAA wallas can't see the writing on the wall they should look around. GAA grants were a nice idea in the overheated economy but the country is virtually bankrupt today and just can't afford fripperies. 

All true seafoid, but with the caveat that other areas of grants or tax breaks to sportspeople, professional or amateur should be looked at in the same way. My position on this is that GAA funds should never go to players or managers, but if the Government agrees that the players are national assets or cultural icons, then fair enough.

the grants might be the only thing stopping some lads from emigrating. the country is flat broke. if it was an individual it would be close to bankrupt. does the gaa pay tax or give tickets to the govt/civil service? if so this should stop. in the whole scheme of things (PARDON THE PUN) the figure we are talking about is small when you consider the benefits to the country of a strong gaa. you only have to look at the increased attendances at some games to realize that people need something to look forward to and imo the gaa gives excellent value for money and should be a source of national pride.

Quote from: talktothehand on June 25, 2009, 09:58:43 PM
the grants might be the only thing stopping some lads from emigrating. the country is flat broke. if it was an individual it would be close to bankrupt. does the gaa pay tax or give tickets to the govt/civil service? if so this should stop. in the whole scheme of things (PARDON THE PUN) the figure we are talking about is small when you consider the benefits to the country of a strong gaa. you only have to look at the increased attendances at some games to realize that people need something to look forward to and imo the gaa gives excellent value for money and should be a source of national pride.

It will be interesting to see just how many people emigrate now...  ::)

QuoteIt will be interesting to see just how many people emigrate now...  [/quote

Sure them big air-planes go both ways.....

well if a lad can get 30k a year on a training cotract in the AFL and can't get a job as a joiner what's he to do?

Quote from: talktothehand on June 25, 2009, 10:34:48 PM
well if a lad can get 30k a year on a training cotract in the AFL and can't get a job as a joiner what's he to do?

Indeed.  As I said, it will be interesting to see...

Quote from: talktothehand on June 25, 2009, 10:34:48 PM
well if a lad can get 30k a year on a training cotract in the AFL and can't get a job as a joiner what's he to do?

Yes because a job as a joiner would keep you in Ireland if you could play sport full time for 30k.

Stop talking shite and trying to scaremonger. 

Quote from: talktothehand on June 25, 2009, 09:58:43 PM
the grants might be the only thing stopping some lads from emigrating.

I don't think so. Two or three grand a year won't stop anyone from emigrating. They could earn as much filling petrol from minimum wage on Saturday mornings.

If a lad gets a chance of a professional contract he's fully entitled to take it. I know I would. Thats a side issue from grants. A grant will not stop anyone signing a professional contract.

Quote from: talktothehand on June 25, 2009, 10:34:48 PM
well if a lad can get 30k a year on a training cotract in the AFL and can't get a job as a joiner what's he to do?

Read Indianas post above. Absolutely nothing to do with a debate about player grants

Im wondering could we  the GPA arguing that other sporting organisations should not get the grant.  Its a very ruthless capitalistic world they entered on their own bat and they've just been caught out / ripped off.  Id love to know what the ministers make of dessi.  do they fell that he is a soft enough aul touch to get one over on like the rest of us.  I just hope big Sean dosent make an ass out of himself aligning himself with thon other guy.