Tiger may be back for the Matchplay next weekend.
The title of world's best sportsstar will be reclaimed quickly by him.
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Lance Armstrong has to be up there and dare I say, Brian McGuigan?
henrik?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Federer in my opinion but if want most consistent, Phil the Power is hard to beat.
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Federer in my opinion but if want most consistent, Phil the Power is hard to beat.
Laughable that you would snigger at the mention of Tiger and then offer Federer and Taylor as replacements. All valid contenders, but golf is a sport where any group of 30 golfers can win the big ones and Tiger usually comes out on top.
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
Tiger is not only the best now he is one of the best sportsmen ever IMHO...
I agree, Tiger is the most complete and clean sportsman I have seen in my lifetime.
Have to agree, I opened this topic in a bit of jest, but love the varying arguments. Nobody can ge tclose to Tiger for the accolade in my opinion.
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Federer in my opinion but if want most consistent, Phil the Power is hard to beat.
Laughable that you would snigger at the mention of Tiger and then offer Federer and Taylor as replacements. All valid contenders, but golf is a sport where any group of 30 golfers can win the big ones and Tiger usually comes out on top.
When or where did I snigger at Tiger?
Schumacher was some driver ,while Lance was great but there will always be doubts.
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Federer in my opinion but if want most consistent, Phil the Power is hard to beat.
Laughable that you would snigger at the mention of Tiger and then offer Federer and Taylor as replacements. All valid contenders, but golf is a sport where any group of 30 golfers can win the big ones and Tiger usually comes out on top.
When or where will is snigger at Tiger?
Not literally. But "hardly the best" would indicate you thought it was a ludicrous suggestion?
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Federer in my opinion but if want most consistent, Phil the Power is hard to beat.
Laughable that you would snigger at the mention of Tiger and then offer Federer and Taylor as replacements. All valid contenders, but golf is a sport where any group of 30 golfers can win the big ones and Tiger usually comes out on top.
When or where will is snigger at Tiger?
Not literally. But "hardly the best" would indicate you thought it was a ludicrous suggestion?
Not ludicrous but not one I wouldn't agree with. I think their are a few above him but that's just me
Phil Taylor :D :D :D
Slightly off on a tangent here but i read a piece by a Times journalist the other day that Woods was the most difficult (not in a bad way) & enjoyable interview he has ever had. The journalist said he prides himself on directing the interview to where he wants but Woods left him "black & blue" ! Will try and find the article.
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Federer in my opinion but if want most consistent, Phil the Power is hard to beat.
Laughable that you would snigger at the mention of Tiger and then offer Federer and Taylor as replacements. All valid contenders, but golf is a sport where any group of 30 golfers can win the big ones and Tiger usually comes out on top.
When or where will is snigger at Tiger?
Not literally. But "hardly the best" would indicate you thought it was a ludicrous suggestion?
No ludicrous but not one I wouldn't agree with. I think their are a few above him but that's just me
Ah you see, your a Dub, I automatically take everything wrongly because of it. ;)
It can only be Jocky Wilson. ;)
Quote from: Minder on February 18, 2009, 03:58:32 PM
Slightly off on a tangent here but i read a piece by a Times journalist the other day that Woods was the most difficult (not in a bad way) & enjoyable interview he has ever had. The journalist said he prides himself on directing the interview to where he wants but Woods left him "black & blue" ! Will try and find the article.
Please do, would love to see that.
I think this could end the argument.
Considering the sport that golf is, how hard it is and the pure amount of players that can win an event compare to other sports, the fact that Tiger has won 29% (65 out of 222) of his professional tournaments is astonishing.
I agree; golf is notoriously difficult to master at any time. For a player to dominate the game as completely as he has is awesome.
On the other hand, best return by a sportsman from injury must go to Austrian skier Herman Maier; suffered horrendous knee injuries in a motorcycle crash and nearly had his leg amputated by the doctors; yet he returned to a sport where strength in the knees and legs is at a premium and went on to win more downhill races.
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 04:04:17 PM
I think this could end the argument.
Considering the sport that golf is, how hard it is and the pure amount of players that can win an event compare to other sports, the fact that Tiger has won 29% (65 out of 222) of his professional tournaments is astonishing.
What about Schumacher? 7 championships and left everyone for dust.
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 04:04:17 PM
I think this could end the argument.
Considering the sport that golf is, how hard it is and the pure amount of players that can win an event compare to other sports, the fact that Tiger has won 29% (65 out of 222) of his professional tournaments is astonishing.
What about Schumacher? 7 championships and left everyone for dust.
How much of it was the car and how much of it was him?
Serious question btw as I don't know too much about F1
i think any sports man that comes back from serious injury to play at the top level deserves great credit.takes a great determination and mental strength. they are a few in our own sport i can think off
Brian mc guigan (twice)
Barry owens
martin mcgrath
conor gormley
as well as people like henrik larson
just the ones that come to mind at the min
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 04:04:17 PM
I think this could end the argument.
Considering the sport that golf is, how hard it is and the pure amount of players that can win an event compare to other sports, the fact that Tiger has won 29% (65 out of 222) of his professional tournaments is astonishing.
What about Schumacher? 7 championships and left everyone for dust.
He was always driving the best car - not to mention his team-mates being ordered to move aside and let him beat them
Sebastian Loeb could arguably be considered to be a better driver than Schumacher.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on February 18, 2009, 04:22:31 PM
i think any sports man that comes back from serious injury to play at the top level deserves great credit.takes a great determination and mental strength. they are a few in our own sport i can think off
Brian mc guigan (twice)
Barry owens
martin mcgrath
conor gormley
as well as people like henrik larson
just the ones that come to mind at the min
Great. another attempt to hijack a thread and turn it into a debate on all things Tyrone. Just what we all wanted ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 18, 2009, 04:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 04:04:17 PM
I think this could end the argument.
Considering the sport that golf is, how hard it is and the pure amount of players that can win an event compare to other sports, the fact that Tiger has won 29% (65 out of 222) of his professional tournaments is astonishing.
What about Schumacher? 7 championships and left everyone for dust.
How much of it was the car and how much of it was him?
Serious question btw as I don't know too much about F1
Well Ferrari's dominance ended as soon as he left and some of his performances where unnatural
Yep, a lot came down to Schumacher;s brilliance, however, the fact that the car also played a massive role, I can't put him in the same bracket as the others mentioned.
Michael Jordan.
From a GAA view, both Colm O'Rourke/Pat Spillane did very well to overcome serious knee injuries at a time when they were career threatening afflictions.
While probably not a popular choice on this board, Brian Mullins suffered terribly after a car crash before coming back to win an AI in 1983.
Diego Marradona also did brilliantly to overcome his injuries meted out to him in Spain. Has to be him imho.
Golf is easy though innit?
You lot would argue over the colour of shite ::)
Quote from: ziggysego on February 18, 2009, 05:42:07 PM
You lot would argue over the colour of shite ::)
You can have different coloured shite. Brown, Green, Yellow-Green...
Black, after a feed of Guinness.
See, Ziggy was right, we ARE arguing over the colour.
Jimmy Bullard did well to get back to the top of his sport after that injury.
No doubt Tiger Woods is a great sportsman but can hardly say that the game he plays is as physically demanding - he plays against old duffers and fat baxtards like Colin Montgomery - thats like me and Jo Brand taking part in a 100 metre sprint.
Henrik Larsson for me, to break a leg like that and to come back even better than before shows what a wonderful professional he really is.
Quote from: carribbear on February 18, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
No doubt Tiger Woods is a great sportsman but can hardly say that the game he plays is as physically demanding - he plays against old duffers and fat baxtards like Colin Montgomery - thats like me and Jo Brand taking part in a 100 metre sprint.
Henrik Larsson for me, to break a leg like that and to come back even better than before shows what a wonderful professional he really is.
Which one of you two is the old duffer and which is the fat baxtard?!?!?
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on February 18, 2009, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: carribbear on February 18, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
No doubt Tiger Woods is a great sportsman but can hardly say that the game he plays is as physically demanding - he plays against old duffers and fat baxtards like Colin Montgomery - thats like me and Jo Brand taking part in a 100 metre sprint.
Henrik Larsson for me, to break a leg like that and to come back even better than before shows what a wonderful professional he really is.
Which one of you two is the old duffer and which is the fat baxtard?!?!?
It would be a close one :D
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 04:04:17 PM
I think this could end the argument.
Considering the sport that golf is, how hard it is and the pure amount of players that can win an event compare to other sports, the fact that Tiger has won 29% (65 out of 222) of his professional tournaments is astonishing.
What about Schumacher? 7 championships and left everyone for dust.
He was always driving the best car - not to mention his team-mates being ordered to move aside and let him beat them
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 05:13:50 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 18, 2009, 04:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 04:04:17 PM
I think this could end the argument.
Considering the sport that golf is, how hard it is and the pure amount of players that can win an event compare to other sports, the fact that Tiger has won 29% (65 out of 222) of his professional tournaments is astonishing.
What about Schumacher? 7 championships and left everyone for dust.
How much of it was the car and how much of it was him?
Serious question btw as I don't know too much about F1
Well Ferrari's dominance ended as soon as he left and some of his performances where unnatural
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 05:17:28 PM
Yep, a lot came down to Schumacher;s brilliance, however, the fact that the car also played a massive role, I can't put him in the same bracket as the others mentioned.
Schumacher was hardly driving the best car when he started at Ferrari in '96, they hadn't won the championship in almost 20years. He broke his leg in an accident 1999 and had the mental strength to return and win championships from 2000-2004.
Schumacher also won a couple of Championships with Benetton in '94 and '95 when Williams were the dominant force
Quote from: carribbear on February 18, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
No doubt Tiger Woods is a great sportsman but can hardly say that the game he plays is as physically demanding - he plays against old duffers and fat baxtards like Colin Montgomery - thats like me and Jo Brand taking part in a 100 metre sprint.
Henrik Larsson for me, to break a leg like that and to come back even better than before shows what a wonderful professional he really is.
My money is on Brand. Less corners on her.
Quote from: muppet on February 18, 2009, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: carribbear on February 18, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
No doubt Tiger Woods is a great sportsman but can hardly say that the game he plays is as physically demanding - he plays against old duffers and fat baxtards like Colin Montgomery - thats like me and Jo Brand taking part in a 100 metre sprint.
Henrik Larsson for me, to break a leg like that and to come back even better than before shows what a wonderful professional he really is.
My money is on Brand. Less corners on her.
It would be a cracking race if you put some chocolate eclairs at the finish line
Quote from: carribbear on February 18, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
No doubt Tiger Woods is a great sportsman but can hardly say that the game he plays is as physically demanding - he plays against old duffers and fat baxtards like Colin Montgomery - thats like me and Jo Brand taking part in a 100 metre sprint.
The worst defenition of proffesional golf I have ever seen.
I think an average person has a swing speed of about 89mph, Tiger's is 125mph.
is golf a sport? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-hollander/is-golf-a-sport-seriously_b_100906.html)
I tried that linky thing there. :D
If people are suggesting Henrik Larsson - whaqt about Djibril Cisse then?
Quote from: Puckoon on February 18, 2009, 07:00:31 PM
is golf a sport? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-hollander/is-golf-a-sport-seriously_b_100906.html)
I tried that linky thing there. :D
Funny article alright, but I would like to see him question theier stamina if he sits an hits balls repeatedly for six hours like the pros do.
When I read the title I thought you meant Eduardo.... ;)
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 07:10:50 PM
If people are suggesting Henrik Larsson - whaqt about Djibril Cisse then?
I don't think Cisse has really been that good of a player, nowhere in the same bracket as Henrik before or after his injury. Great recovery though to get back playing twice.
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 06:37:38 PM
Quote from: carribbear on February 18, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
No doubt Tiger Woods is a great sportsman but can hardly say that the game he plays is as physically demanding - he plays against old duffers and fat baxtards like Colin Montgomery - thats like me and Jo Brand taking part in a 100 metre sprint.
The worst defenition of proffesional golf I have ever seen.
You can tell I don't have much time for it ;)
Well ok Tony - so what attributes does Golf have that make it a sport, that poker doesnt have, that makes it not a sport?
Quote from: Puckoon on February 18, 2009, 09:52:09 PM
Well ok Tony - so what attributes does Golf have that make it a sport, that poker doesnt have, that makes it not a sport?
Does that make Old Maid and Snap sports...........
Poker is a card game,I wouldn't count it as a sport
Well then if we're gonna include target cames like golf and darts and pool and snooker - what about marbles?
Poker's just based on luck, you might as well call bingo a sport.
Quote from: Puckoon on February 18, 2009, 09:58:48 PM
Well then if we're gonna include target cames like golf and darts and pool and snooker - what about marbles?
If it makes you happy...
If you want to base sporting prowess on athleticism then none of the people mentioned above are the best. It will be the fastest runner, the strongest man, the highest or longest jumper.
Best world sportsmen in my memory (mainly 95- ) would be a top 5 of Zidane, Woods, Federer, Phelps, Mayweather in that order. The fact that darts isn't a worldwide competitive sport would negate any claim for Phil Taylor in that list but I can't imagine there being a player to come close to matching his achievements in that sport for a very long time.
Switch Messi with Zidane and you've hit the nail on the head with that list rav!
it'd be mayweather for me lads
I mind seeing snow around June, she stopped that craic in later years though.
Quote from: carribbear on February 18, 2009, 07:18:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 07:10:50 PM
If people are suggesting Henrik Larsson - whaqt about Djibril Cisse then?
I don't think Cisse has really been that good of a player, nowhere in the same bracket as Henrik before or after his injury. Great recovery though to get back playing twice.
Jamie Carragher then.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on February 18, 2009, 10:01:14 PM
Poker's just based on luck, you might as well call bingo a sport.
Pler is partly luck, mostly skill.
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
And just to keep it realistic, that is for the majority. There is the odd golfer who is so talented that they play their tournaments and drink the rest of the time - John Daly is the best example.
Calzaghe, Mayweather etc
Undefeated champions.
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:05:15 AM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
Wrong. As I say, there are exceptions to the rule. For every Ronaldo I give you Neville Southhall or Duncan Ferguson, or Jan Molby.
Schumacher would have as much claim to the title as Woods, as mentioned he won his first two titles in a Benetton and when he arrived at Ferrari they were not the top team.
QuoteTiger Woods revolutionised a sport, it is better because of him and his attitude. He is the great sports man we are likely to ever see.
How did he revolutionise the sport of golf?
It would not be Larsson either - he did comeback from a serious injury but he was not and is not near the top footballer never mind sportsman.
I would be in sensational physical shape and after 18 holes on a tough course you would be ready for a wee nap.........
Cheers for that link Minder, good read.
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 10:10:04 AM
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:05:15 AM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
Wrong. As I say, there are exceptions to the rule. For every Ronaldo I give you Neville Southhall or Duncan Ferguson, or Jan Molby.
LOL
How can you possibly say that the vast majority of players spend 3 hours in the gym on a non tournament. Your making things up and presenting them as fact.
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 10:10:04 AM
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:05:15 AM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
Wrong. As I say, there are exceptions to the rule. For every Ronaldo I give you Neville Southhall or Duncan Ferguson, or Jan Molby.
LOL
How can you possibly say that the vast majority of players spend 3 hours in the gym on a non tournament. Your making things up and presenting them as fact.
How can you possibly say that for every Tiger I give you a Cabrerra? If that is the case you are presenting as fact that the vast majority don't.
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 10:10:04 AM
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:05:15 AM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
Wrong. As I say, there are exceptions to the rule. For every Ronaldo I give you Neville Southhall or Duncan Ferguson, or Jan Molby.
LOL
How can you possibly say that the vast majority of players spend 3 hours in the gym on a non tournament. Your making things up and presenting them as fact.
I'll put it another way, I imagine you think the vast majority of rugby/soccer players epnd most days in the gym?
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Federer in my opinion but if want most consistent, Phil the Power is hard to beat.
An argument could have been made for fed a few years ago, currently he's not even the best in his own game. Tiger takes the accolade easily imo.
Cabrerra won the US Open one of the toughest tournaments to win. He doesn't exercise and likes cigars. You said the vast majority of players ( with some exceptions) exercise 3 hours on average when they are not in tournaments. I disagree with you and just because you read a few autobios doesn't change my opinion. In the top ten in the world at the minute you have Sergio Garcia, Phil Michelson who wouldnt be gym monkeys but these 2 alone is 20% of the current best players in the world ( not exceptions and i wuld hazard a guess that the lower you go in the ranking the lower the more lax players will be in this regard but im sure you will prove me wrong)
Why are you comparing golfers and footballers( even though all the payers you mention are from a different era and have retired with years!), why not compare them with dart players?
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 11:03:28 AM
Cabrerra won the US Open one of the toughest tournaments to win. He doesn't exercise and likes cigars. You said the vast majority of players ( with some exceptions) exercise 3 hours on average when they are not in tournaments. I disagree with you and just because you read a few autobios doesn't change my opinion. In the top ten in the world at the minute you have Sergio Garcia, Phil Michelson who wouldnt be gym monkeys but these 2 alone is 20% of the current best players in the world ( not exceptions and i wuld hazard a guess that the lower you go in the ranking the lower the more lax players will be in this regard but im sure you will prove me wrong)
Why are you comparing golfers and footballers( even though all the payers you mention are from a different era and have retired with years!), why not compare them with dart players?
Ok i'll compare them with Darts players, golf players do more fitness work than darts players - i don't get your point here?
I chose football because I say you believe that is one of these athletic sports? How can you say golfers are not gym monkeys and then I'd imagine you'll claim footballers are.
As per your examples, Mickelson realised that not hitting the gym was causing him to lag, he therefore hit the gym and took up martial arts, his muscle percentage has increased dramatically.
Garcia does four two-hour gym sessions a week, throw in a tournament at the weekend and you will see he does a lot.
QuoteAn argument could have been made for fed a few years ago, currently he's not even the best in his own game. Tiger takes the accolade easily imo.
Has this thread changed to the worlds best sportsman?
Federer is going through a slump by his standards and this has been happening for the past year, but thats not to say that he won't come out of it and reign over Nadal again (I think he will). Federer would have been regarded as the best sportsman this time last year without a doubt. Presently Usain Bolt would be a serious contender for best sportsman surely?
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 19, 2009, 11:48:49 AM
QuoteAn argument could have been made for fed a few years ago, currently he's not even the best in his own game. Tiger takes the accolade easily imo.
Has this thread changed to the worlds best sportsman?
Federer is going through a slump by his standards and this has been happening for the past year, but thats not to say that he won't come out of it and reign over Nadal again (I think he will). Federer would have been regarded as the best sportsman this time last year without a doubt. Presently Usain Bolt would be a serious contender for best sportsman surely?
Sportsman was what I was getting at, not sportsstar because Beckham would have that in the bag.
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 18, 2009, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2009, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 18, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Hardly the world best sport star ever or even still active.
I'm sure you'll tell us who is
Federer in my opinion but if want most consistent, Phil the Power is hard to beat.
Laughable that you would snigger at the mention of Tiger and then offer Federer and Taylor as replacements. All valid contenders, but golf is a sport where any group of 30 golfers can win the big ones and Tiger usually comes out on top.
When or where did I snigger at Tiger?
Schumacher was some driver ,while Lance was great but there will always be doubts.
Armstrong never tested dirty so he gets the benfit of the doubt, the loveable french went to great lengths to discredit him and even broke into his room and still couldnt get him.
I hope he wins it again to slap it up them, I doubt he will though, I think he might finally be beaten this year.
Paul Gascoigne did pretty well after his injury at Spurs and deserves a mention.
Brian Mullins in 1982/83. Believe me no-one else would ever have played again.
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 19, 2009, 11:48:49 AM
QuoteAn argument could have been made for fed a few years ago, currently he's not even the best in his own game. Tiger takes the accolade easily imo.
Has this thread changed to the worlds best sportsman?
Federer is going through a slump by his standards and this has been happening for the past year, but thats not to say that he won't come out of it and reign over Nadal again (I think he will). Federer would have been regarded as the best sportsman this time last year without a doubt. Presently Usain Bolt would be a serious contender for best sportsman surely?
My apologies for hijacking the thread with best sportsman, but Bolt? I could wiki him, but can't be bothered, he's a 100m runner I think, I know nothing of his achievements, but (and I haven't checked out Puck's link on what is a sport and what isn't) I would be loathe to include athletes here, mainly because sports to my mind should also include an element of skill.
Amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DCW_Yoy5Q
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 11:29:43 AM
Ok i'll compare them with Darts players, golf players do more fitness work than darts players - i don't get your point here?
I chose football because I say you believe that is one of these athletic sports? How can you say golfers are not gym monkeys and then I'd imagine you'll claim footballers are.
As per your examples, Mickelson realised that not hitting the gym was causing him to lag, he therefore hit the gym and took up martial arts, his muscle percentage has increased dramatically.
Garcia does four two-hour gym sessions a week, throw in a tournament at the weekend and you will see he does a lot.
You choose football im sure you have your reasons (even though it defeats your agrument)
Show me your proof where Mickelson hit the gym.
Garcia says he goes to the gym when he has time and then in his own words
Usually probably work
out about four days a week and I will probably
spend just around two hours, a little bit of cardio
and a little bit of weights and all that stuff.and then http://www.andalucia.com/golf/sergio-garcia.htm
No, nothing out of the ordinary. I practice a little. If I have time I go to the gym, but nothing out of the ordinary. So to me that is the same as a 'normal' person i going to the gym.Ok take the some of Europe Ryder cup stars
Colin Montgomery
Darren Clarke
Lee Westwood
Miguel Angle Jimenez
Look you said there are exceptions but id nearly go as far to say that superfit golfers are the exceptions and you cant back you your statement
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym
I'll get them links now, but can you back up where all Premiership players spend this much time in the gym?
did i say that?
EDIT just checked i never mentioned footballers.
mickleson:
I immediately lost 20, 25 pounds and put on about 10 to 15 more with muscle from lifting, trying to build up stamina doing 45 minutes to an hour and a half of cardio five or six days a week. I've started a new martial arts, a different type of martial art from what I'd been doing."
http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news_07/phil_mickelson_1.html
A quote from Harrington sums it up for me.
"In any given week, I will spend 70-plus hours on my golf," he said. "It may not be high-intensity work at times, but including my gym work, it is easily 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and it catches up with you. I know a lot of people work double weeks, but out here when you're not at your peak, it shows up very quickly. That's why you have to take time off. You can't get away with being average."
I'm actually finding it hard to find schedules. Vijay is known to be in the gym by 6am most mornings. Tiger's the obviosus gymaholic and he really brought the ethic into the game. You listed a few players there, as I said there are exceptions, Daly, Cabrerra, Jiminez, but they were all at the top of the game before Woods came a long. You must not follow it closely if you don't realise that players take a different approach to it now. You listed Clarke (see quote below), but he is the perfect example of someone who bucked up his trends to suit the different manner of the sport.
"I look back over my career and wonder if my lack of discipline in terms of my shape and fitness cost me tournament wins when I was younger, " the Northern Irish golfer admitted. "That's why I decided, three years ago, to get fit before it was too late" - a quote from Clarke from last week.
Ok you mentioned Garcia's routine, combine that with the four hours he probably spends on the driving range each day and it is fair to say it i fairly physical.
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:05:15 AM
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
That's your quote.
In today's game you are way off to suggest that just some golfers go to the gym. You could not give me a Cabrerra for every Woods. Out of the top 200 in the world, I would imagine 90% plus would do massive gym work combined with practising.
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Sorry Corn - Ive no time to read the autobiographies - but I will say this, if a pro golfer spends as much time in the gym as a premiership player - how do you explain the montys, the miklesons, the jiminez's, the cabrerras of the PGA TOUR? Most pga events start with a pro am, and most nights there are relatively big dinners after the pro am, the cut, and the final round. Then its back on a plane to home for a few days and all over again.
Im not saying its not a tough schedule - but dont think for a second you can point to Phil Mikleson at me and say - hes an athlete.
Just an alternative opinion.
Sorry lads, just read the last few pages.
Anyway corn - if your article on mickelson is from 07, then its out of date - he was heavier this year than in recent times.
Quote from: Puckoon on February 19, 2009, 04:44:31 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Sorry Corn - Ive no time to read the autobiographies - but I will say this, if a pro golfer spends as much time in the gym as a premiership player - how do you explain the montys, the miklesons, the jiminez's, the cabrerras of the PGA TOUR? Most pga events start with a pro am, and most nights there are relatively big dinners after the pro am, the cut, and the final round. Then its back on a plane to home for a few days and all over again.
Im not saying its not a tough schedule - but dont think for a second you can point to Phil Mikleson at me and say - hes an athlete.
Just an alternative opinion.
Yeah well I'll have to disagree with you then, fair enough. Re: the players you mentioned, all pre-Woods era and there is no doubt Woods has shaken up this aspect of the game and rebranded it.
Mickelson has drastically improved his gym work.
Also if you think they spend most nights at dinners, that is flawed logic.
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 02:50:07 PM
Amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DCW_Yoy5Q
Pure genius...
Though the guy who left the last comment underneath the video doesn't think so.. :-\
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 04:52:28 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 02:50:07 PM
Amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DCW_Yoy5Q
Pure genius...
Though the guy who left the last comment underneath the video doesn't think so.. :-\
:D :-\ :(
Thats a ridiculous comment to be left there for the world to see, do they not get moderated?? I don't use Youtube to post cmoments so I would not know
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 19, 2009, 10:10:32 AM
It would not be Larsson either - he did comeback from a serious injury but he was not and is not near the top footballer never mind sportsman.
the title of the thread reads 'return from injury'.
Tell me someone better, I can't think of any.
ps - Henrik WAS a top player, no doubt about that.
Corn
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:47:11 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on February 19, 2009, 04:44:31 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Sorry Corn - Ive no time to read the autobiographies - but I will say this, if a pro golfer spends as much time in the gym as a premiership player - how do you explain the montys, the miklesons, the jiminez's, the cabrerras of the PGA TOUR? Most pga events start with a pro am, and most nights there are relatively big dinners after the pro am, the cut, and the final round. Then its back on a plane to home for a few days and all over again.
Im not saying its not a tough schedule - but dont think for a second you can point to Phil Mikleson at me and say - hes an athlete.
Just an alternative opinion.
Yeah well I'll have to disagree with you then, fair enough. Re: the players you mentioned, all pre-Woods era and there is no doubt Woods has shaken up this aspect of the game and rebranded it.
Mickelson has drastically improved his gym work.
Also if you think they spend most nights at dinners, that is flawed logic.
Ah come on Corn, they all have had success since Woods has come on the scene , some a lot more than before this time , and i notice you are the only one mentioning Daly.
You seem to think we are talking about extremes, im not saying that they dont use the gym at all but just pulling you up on the comment that generally golfers spend 3 hours in a gym every day. I have given you a list of exceptional golfers ( plus Big Ernie) but you come back and say there will always be exceptions ( and mention footballers , some of who are retired 15-20 years, why don't you compare them to the golfers of that generation?)
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
mickleson:
I immediately lost 20, 25 pounds and put on about 10 to 15 more with muscle from lifting, trying to build up stamina doing 45 minutes to an hour and a half of cardio five or six days a week. I've started a new martial arts, a different type of martial art from what I'd been doing."
Have you seen Mickleson lately?
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
A quote from Harrington sums it up for me.
"In any given week, I will spend 70-plus hours on my golf," he said. "It may not be high-intensity work at times, but including my gym work, it is easily 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and it catches up with you. I know a lot of people work double weeks, but out here when you're not at your peak, it shows up very quickly. That's why you have to take time off. You can't get away with being average."
Sums up what? He says that he spends 70 plus hours but no breakdown of gym work. Of course he practices but so do Dart players but you discount there practice.
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
I'm actually finding it hard to find schedules. Vijay is known to be in the gym by 6am most mornings. Tiger's the obviosus gymaholic and he really brought the ethic into the game. You listed a few players there, as I said there are exceptions, Daly, Cabrerra, Jiminez, but they were all at the top of the game before Woods came a long. You must not follow it closely if you don't realise that players take a different approach to it now.
You must not follow closely if you think that Mickleson is currently spending time in gym, he is a great golfer but he not in great shape these days.
Caberra is quite open about his lack of fitness and his love of cigars.
Jiminez is never seen without his cigars
I listed several great current players (The above plus Els, Westwood etc) how can you say they are exceptions?
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
You listed Clarke (see quote below), but he is the perfect example of someone who bucked up his trends to suit the different manner of the sport.
"I look back over my career and wonder if my lack of discipline in terms of my shape and fitness cost me tournament wins when I was younger, " the Northern Irish golfer admitted. "That's why I decided, three years ago, to get fit before it was too late" - a quote from Clarke from last week.
Ok you mentioned Garcia's routine, combine that with the four hours he probably spends on the driving range each day and it is fair to say it i fairly physical.
Clarke being the perfect example? Has his golf improved in the last 3 years?
Why mention the 4 hours garcia spends on the range, do all golfers not do that?
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:05:15 AM
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
That's your quote.
In today's game you are way off to suggest that just some golfers go to the gym. You could not give me a Cabrerra for every Woods. Out of the top 200 in the world, I would imagine 90% plus would do massive gym work combined with practising.
you are doing it again, if can define massive gym work and list your source of the 90% (and tell me that the great players i have listed are doing massive gym work) then you will convince me.
im never doing a reply like this ever again!!!
Can we agree to disagree if you wont admit you are wrong :)
Quote from: carribbear on February 19, 2009, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 19, 2009, 10:10:32 AM
It would not be Larsson either - he did comeback from a serious injury but he was not and is not near the top footballer never mind sportsman.
the title of the thread reads 'return from injury'.
Tell me someone better, I can't think of any.
ps - Henrik WAS a top player, no doubt about that.
Are you a Celtic fan ?
Some sports have a major reliance of athleticism; some a major relience on skill; most have a major reliance on mental strength.
Soccer players have a reliance on both skill and athleticism. You have some players who have very little skills but are good athletes and competitors - offhand I'd be thinking of the likes of, dare I say it, Roy Keane. By that I mean Keane had more athleticism than skill, which, combined with a serious mental strength, made him one of the best in the world. Keane wouldn't be a world class soccer player were it not for his athleticism and stamina.
Then you have some players who have bucketloads of skill but not a lot of athleticism. Jan Molby for instance who struggled with fitness but was a class player because of his skill. Had he little skill, we'd have never heard of him. So, in soccer, people can get by if they're not athletic if they're highly skilled and vice-versa. Although the likes of Molby are becomming less and less prevalent.
But in golf being able to run all the marathons in the world is a waste of time if you don't have the skills required for the game. Skill is responsible for about 70% of a golfers make-up with mental strength at about 20% and stamina/athleticism maybe at 10%. That's why the likes of Daly, Cabrera, Monty etc get by. And its why golfers still thrive into their 40's, whereas that can't happen in soccer, rugby etc.
People like Tiger and Harrington spend time in the gym to AUGMENT their natural skill. This type of work is much more important for the likes of soccer (athletic work, not particularly gym work, because soccer players will have this incorporated into their training plan).
Poker relies on very little athleticism, as does darts. But Taylor will credit losing weight and using the gym more (not that he's a gym freak or anything!) on his return to form this year. But mental strength, mental stamina and skill are the most important in these two games.
I've always found it hard to quantify what is a sport and what isn't. I would always have considered golf a sport and darts not. But the above leaves them fairly closely linked. I think the fundamental is that you don't have to be sprinting flat out in a game for it to be a sport. Formula 1, golf, darts, snooker, archery etc are sedantic enough sports relative to football, athletic etc. But they're still sports I think. Poker would be stretching it though. While skill is a factor, so too is luck
Roy Keane after that tackle by Halland....best midfielder in the world at the time!!
Quote from: new devil on February 19, 2009, 07:13:38 PM
Roy Keane after that tackle by Halland....best midfielder in the world at the time!!
In your "world" maybe
FFS Viera had Keane in his pocket most of the time. Phil Neville was the only united player that could better Viera.
Quote from: new devil on February 19, 2009, 07:13:38 PM
Roy Keane after that tackle by Halland....best midfielder in the world at the time!!
IIRC - Keane hurt himself trying to lunge at Haaland
QuoteHaaland is often remembered for his "feud" with Roy Keane. In 1997, when Manchester United were losing to Haaland's Leeds United team, Keane attempted to tackle Haaland late in the game. In the process, Keane injured his anterior cruciate liagment. As Keane lay prone on the ground, Haaland criticised Keane for the tackle and suggested that he was feigning injury to avoid punishment. Keane was booked as he was stretchered off the field.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/images/2005/11/18/97_keane_haaland_02_300x300.jpg)
Okay I'm not justfying what Keane did subsequently . . . but if you are lying down with a career threatening injury and some idiot starts screaming at you that you are 'diving', well then he's hardly innocent either. Keane's subsequent tackle was OTT, and I don't wanna go over old ground, but Haaland did have some retribution coming to him
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 19, 2009, 07:54:30 PM
Okay I'm not justfying what Keane did subsequently . . . but if you are lying down with a career threatening injury and some idiot starts screaming at you that you are 'diving', well then he's hardly innocent either. Keane's subsequent tackle was OTT, and I don't wanna go over old ground, but Haaland did have some retribution coming to him
::)
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 19, 2009, 07:54:30 PMif you are lying down with a career threatening injury
even if it was his own fault that he got injured?
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 07:09:03 PM
Are you a Celtic fan ?
Certainly am but I don't thiink you need to be just a celtic fan to appreciate the skill, imagination, athletic ablilty and attitude of the guy.
Remember that tool Gazza wrecked his cruciate whilst trying to kick Gary Charles into row z at Wembley. I don't know if he was ever the same player after that.
I vote we don't start this all over again about Mr.Keane and just forget about it...
Anyone with me ?
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 08:05:48 PM
I vote we don't start this all over again about Mr.Keane and just forget about it...
Anyone with me ?
Why don.t we all agree that Tiger Woods is the answer and go fight elsewhere.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 19, 2009, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 08:05:48 PM
I vote we don't start this all over again about Mr.Keane and just forget about it...
Anyone with me ?
Why don.t we all agree that Tiger Woods is the answer and go fight elsewhere.
I agree Tiger Woods is the answer...
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 19, 2009, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 08:05:48 PM
I vote we don't start this all over again about Mr.Keane and just forget about it...
Anyone with me ?
Why don.t we all agree that Tiger Woods is the answer and go fight elsewhere.
Whats the question? Most ridiculous name in sports entertainment today?
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 19, 2009, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 08:05:48 PM
I vote we don't start this all over again about Mr.Keane and just forget about it...
Anyone with me ?
Why don.t we all agree that Tiger Woods is the answer and go fight elsewhere.
I agree Tiger Woods is the answer...
...If golf was a sport
Right shut this baby down before Puck comes on to tell us it's his local Jack Change It champion who got a paper cut off the four of clubs.
Haha, very funny.
By the way, just for clarification - I wasnt suggesting in my first or second post (the one about the poker) that poker was a sport. I was merely highlighting that it isnt, nor should be, even though it is carried through the main US sports broadcaster.
Wtf is jack change it anyways? Was anyone ever shot over a game called jack change it?
Quote from: Puckoon on February 19, 2009, 08:13:14 PM
Whats the question? Most ridiculous name in sports entertainment today?
Has to be Daniel Shittu
It is handy - isnt it?
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 19, 2009, 08:03:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 19, 2009, 08:01:35 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 19, 2009, 07:54:30 PMif you are lying down with a career threatening injury
even if it was his own fault that he got injured?
His own fault? It was an accident, could easily happen. Just what Haaland did was crass. Surely you can admit that?
Yes - his own fault - go look at the footage. What should Haaland have done? Keane tried to injure him.
Quote from: Puckoon on February 19, 2009, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 19, 2009, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 08:05:48 PM
I vote we don't start this all over again about Mr.Keane and just forget about it...
Anyone with me ?
Why don.t we all agree that Tiger Woods is the answer and go fight elsewhere.
Whats the question? Most ridiculous name in sports entertainment today?
that would be Fuk U Do Me that plays for the Chicago Cubs
I kid you not - I [layed poker with a guy one day (irony of ironies) and he has had 13 holes in one.
Fair play to Keane for coming back from that injury,i thought he would have packed it in half way through his rehab when the going got tough. . . . . . .
I am glad we agree that he was the best midfielder in the world to come back fron injury..weather he meant to injure halland or not is irrelevant
so he's a tr*mp then?
Halland sure is for standing over Roy and gloating..glad your starting to see sense Gab
never trust anyone with one of theose funny symbols over a letter in their name
:D
i meant Keane btw
Im no celtic fan - but Henrik Larsson was the man.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 19, 2009, 08:55:24 PM
I hear a lot of Celtic players play it ;)
As a hobby aside their true sport. what's your point?
Who's that on the left?
(http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/916/0004648.gif)
looks like he plays uni-hoc as well
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00660/SNA251511_280_660528a.jpg)
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 06:11:38 PM
Corn
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:47:11 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on February 19, 2009, 04:44:31 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Sorry Corn - Ive no time to read the autobiographies - but I will say this, if a pro golfer spends as much time in the gym as a premiership player - how do you explain the montys, the miklesons, the jiminez's, the cabrerras of the PGA TOUR? Most pga events start with a pro am, and most nights there are relatively big dinners after the pro am, the cut, and the final round. Then its back on a plane to home for a few days and all over again.
Im not saying its not a tough schedule - but dont think for a second you can point to Phil Mikleson at me and say - hes an athlete.
Just an alternative opinion.
Yeah well I'll have to disagree with you then, fair enough. Re: the players you mentioned, all pre-Woods era and there is no doubt Woods has shaken up this aspect of the game and rebranded it.
Mickelson has drastically improved his gym work.
Also if you think they spend most nights at dinners, that is flawed logic.
Ah come on Corn, they all have had success since Woods has come on the scene , some a lot more than before this time , and i notice you are the only one mentioning Daly.
You seem to think we are talking about extremes, im not saying that they dont use the gym at all but just pulling you up on the comment that generally golfers spend 3 hours in a gym every day. I have given you a list of exceptional golfers ( plus Big Ernie) but you come back and say there will always be exceptions ( and mention footballers , some of who are retired 15-20 years, why don't you compare them to the golfers of that generation?)
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
mickleson:
I immediately lost 20, 25 pounds and put on about 10 to 15 more with muscle from lifting, trying to build up stamina doing 45 minutes to an hour and a half of cardio five or six days a week. I've started a new martial arts, a different type of martial art from what I'd been doing."
Have you seen Mickleson lately?
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
A quote from Harrington sums it up for me.
"In any given week, I will spend 70-plus hours on my golf," he said. "It may not be high-intensity work at times, but including my gym work, it is easily 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and it catches up with you. I know a lot of people work double weeks, but out here when you're not at your peak, it shows up very quickly. That's why you have to take time off. You can't get away with being average."
Sums up what? He says that he spends 70 plus hours but no breakdown of gym work. Of course he practices but so do Dart players but you discount there practice.Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
I'm actually finding it hard to find schedules. Vijay is known to be in the gym by 6am most mornings. Tiger's the obviosus gymaholic and he really brought the ethic into the game. You listed a few players there, as I said there are exceptions, Daly, Cabrerra, Jiminez, but they were all at the top of the game before Woods came a long. You must not follow it closely if you don't realise that players take a different approach to it now.
You must not follow closely if you think that Mickleson is currently spending time in gym, he is a great golfer but he not in great shape these days.
Caberra is quite open about his lack of fitness and his love of cigars.
Jiminez is never seen without his cigars
I listed several great current players (The above plus Els, Westwood etc) how can you say they are exceptions?
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
You listed Clarke (see quote below), but he is the perfect example of someone who bucked up his trends to suit the different manner of the sport.
"I look back over my career and wonder if my lack of discipline in terms of my shape and fitness cost me tournament wins when I was younger, " the Northern Irish golfer admitted. "That's why I decided, three years ago, to get fit before it was too late" - a quote from Clarke from last week.
Ok you mentioned Garcia's routine, combine that with the four hours he probably spends on the driving range each day and it is fair to say it i fairly physical.
Clarke being the perfect example? Has his golf improved in the last 3 years?
Why mention the 4 hours garcia spends on the range, do all golfers not do that? Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:05:15 AM
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
That's your quote.
In today's game you are way off to suggest that just some golfers go to the gym. You could not give me a Cabrerra for every Woods. Out of the top 200 in the world, I would imagine 90% plus would do massive gym work combined with practising.
you are doing it again, if can define massive gym work and list your source of the 90% (and tell me that the great players i have listed are doing massive gym work) then you will convince me.
im never doing a reply like this ever again!!!
Can we agree to disagree if you wont admit you are wrong :)
Ha, no chance am I admitting I am wrong here. :) Agree to disagree is the only option but I am still going to have to reply.
Ok from those only Jiminez can really claim to have had much success since Woods arrived on the scene. He has won more tourneys over 40 but the rest have not done better. I mentioned Daly to point out that sometimes people can get away with just having the genius. A quote from his book. "Hey Tiger come and have a pint with me instead of hitting the gym" "Johnif I had your talent I wouldn;t have to hit the gym."
Ok every player spending three hours in a gym every day may have been a bit much but you are writing these players off as not doing gym work. I have given evidence and quotes that Mickelson, Garcia, Clarke have all got a gym-based mindset now, Clarke and Mickeslon adapting it in recent years to suggest that they think the game has shifted that way. I was watching Mickleson on Sunday night actually, didn't look particuarly chubby to me IMHO.
You say about Harrington and his 70-hours, and no I can't produce a specific beakdown, but when he mentions gym work as he does you can assume a sizeable portion of the 7p hours is in the gym. Golfers are notoriously tight-lipped about their training schedules, the pursuit of Woods schedule has been taken on by many a journalist, the specifics have never been found.
I notice you mention Westwood. He has given up drink and here is a report from a newspaper article on Feb 9 (Daily Record)
The world No.12 has spent much of his time in the gym doing gruelling sessions of up to three hours to get fit for the new campaign. He is already reaping the benefits by hitting the ball further than ever.
"I have lost about a stone since Christmas and been on a strict diet as well. I am also throwing myself into the gym because I have seen the difference that has made since I turned 30"
I did about 20 gym sessions in 25 days after Christmas and have noticed a difference in the distance I am hitting the ball.
"I can feel a difference in how quickly I can control my swing too. I seem to be able to control my muscles in my body a bit better.
---
I am surprised you mentioned Els, he has released a book on how to get fit for golf including muscle work etc.
The only ones I mentioned as exceptions were Cabrerra, Jiminez and Daly. Two are well off the radar now, one major aside.
---
You ask how has Clarke's game improved? Well he certainly had a good end to 08 and not a bad start to 09. Regardless of whether or not it has improved does hold much significance, the fact that he sees gym work as an neccesity is the main thing to take from that. His form of the last two years has dropped for obvious reasons too.
You also why mention Garcia, all golfers do four hours? Exactly my point, another four hours of tough training.
It's a part of the game now, A qucik google search on any player on the tour plus gym will bring up information. I would imagine that a tiny minority don;lt indulge in significant gym work.
But agree to disagree as you say. We'll leave it then. ;)
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 06:11:38 PM
Corn
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:47:11 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on February 19, 2009, 04:44:31 PM
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
You think fitness and stamina does not come into golf?
You are looking at it from our view point, which is walking around an 18-hole course.
A pro golfer would spend as much time in the gym as a Premiership player. An average non-tournamnet day for a golfer would probably include about 3 hours in the gym and about six hours practicing.
Read some of the autobiographies and come back to me and tell me there is not athleticism in it.
Sorry Corn - Ive no time to read the autobiographies - but I will say this, if a pro golfer spends as much time in the gym as a premiership player - how do you explain the montys, the miklesons, the jiminez's, the cabrerras of the PGA TOUR? Most pga events start with a pro am, and most nights there are relatively big dinners after the pro am, the cut, and the final round. Then its back on a plane to home for a few days and all over again.
Im not saying its not a tough schedule - but dont think for a second you can point to Phil Mikleson at me and say - hes an athlete.
Just an alternative opinion.
Yeah well I'll have to disagree with you then, fair enough. Re: the players you mentioned, all pre-Woods era and there is no doubt Woods has shaken up this aspect of the game and rebranded it.
Mickelson has drastically improved his gym work.
Also if you think they spend most nights at dinners, that is flawed logic.
Ah come on Corn, they all have had success since Woods has come on the scene , some a lot more than before this time , and i notice you are the only one mentioning Daly.
You seem to think we are talking about extremes, im not saying that they dont use the gym at all but just pulling you up on the comment that generally golfers spend 3 hours in a gym every day. I have given you a list of exceptional golfers ( plus Big Ernie) but you come back and say there will always be exceptions ( and mention footballers , some of who are retired 15-20 years, why don't you compare them to the golfers of that generation?)
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
mickleson:
I immediately lost 20, 25 pounds and put on about 10 to 15 more with muscle from lifting, trying to build up stamina doing 45 minutes to an hour and a half of cardio five or six days a week. I've started a new martial arts, a different type of martial art from what I'd been doing."
Have you seen Mickleson lately?
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
A quote from Harrington sums it up for me.
"In any given week, I will spend 70-plus hours on my golf," he said. "It may not be high-intensity work at times, but including my gym work, it is easily 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and it catches up with you. I know a lot of people work double weeks, but out here when you're not at your peak, it shows up very quickly. That's why you have to take time off. You can't get away with being average."
Sums up what? He says that he spends 70 plus hours but no breakdown of gym work. Of course he practices but so do Dart players but you discount there practice.Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
I'm actually finding it hard to find schedules. Vijay is known to be in the gym by 6am most mornings. Tiger's the obviosus gymaholic and he really brought the ethic into the game. You listed a few players there, as I said there are exceptions, Daly, Cabrerra, Jiminez, but they were all at the top of the game before Woods came a long. You must not follow it closely if you don't realise that players take a different approach to it now.
You must not follow closely if you think that Mickleson is currently spending time in gym, he is a great golfer but he not in great shape these days.
Caberra is quite open about his lack of fitness and his love of cigars.
Jiminez is never seen without his cigars
I listed several great current players (The above plus Els, Westwood etc) how can you say they are exceptions?
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
You listed Clarke (see quote below), but he is the perfect example of someone who bucked up his trends to suit the different manner of the sport.
"I look back over my career and wonder if my lack of discipline in terms of my shape and fitness cost me tournament wins when I was younger, " the Northern Irish golfer admitted. "That's why I decided, three years ago, to get fit before it was too late" - a quote from Clarke from last week.
Ok you mentioned Garcia's routine, combine that with the four hours he probably spends on the driving range each day and it is fair to say it i fairly physical.
Clarke being the perfect example? Has his golf improved in the last 3 years?
Why mention the 4 hours garcia spends on the range, do all golfers not do that? Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: ludermor on February 19, 2009, 10:05:15 AM
Just because some golfers go to the gym this wouldn't make it an athletic sport, for every Tiger Woods i could give you an Angel Cabrera
That's your quote.
In today's game you are way off to suggest that just some golfers go to the gym. You could not give me a Cabrerra for every Woods. Out of the top 200 in the world, I would imagine 90% plus would do massive gym work combined with practising.
you are doing it again, if can define massive gym work and list your source of the 90% (and tell me that the great players i have listed are doing massive gym work) then you will convince me.
im never doing a reply like this ever again!!!
Can we agree to disagree if you wont admit you are wrong :)
Ha, no chance am I admitting I am wrong here. :) Agree to disagree is the only option but I am still going to have to reply.
Ok from those only Jiminez can really claim to have had much success since Woods arrived on the scene. He has won more tourneys over 40 but the rest have not done better. I mentioned Daly to point out that sometimes people can get away with just having the genius. A quote from his book. "Hey Tiger come and have a pint with me instead of hitting the gym" "Johnif I had your talent I wouldn;t have to hit the gym."
Ok every player spending three hours in a gym every day may have been a bit much but you are writing these players off as not doing gym work. I have given evidence and quotes that Mickelson, Garcia, Clarke have all got a gym-based mindset now, Clarke and Mickeslon adapting it in recent years to suggest that they think the game has shifted that way. I was watching Mickleson on Sunday night actually, didn't look particuarly chubby to me IMHO.
You say about Harrington and his 70-hours, and no I can't produce a specific beakdown, but when he mentions gym work as he does you can assume a sizeable portion of the 7p hours is in the gym. Golfers are notoriously tight-lipped about their training schedules, the pursuit of Woods schedule has been taken on by many a journalist, the specifics have never been found.
I notice you mention Westwood. He has given up drink and here is a report from a newspaper article on Feb 9 (Daily Record)
The world No.12 has spent much of his time in the gym doing gruelling sessions of up to three hours to get fit for the new campaign. He is already reaping the benefits by hitting the ball further than ever.
"I have lost about a stone since Christmas and been on a strict diet as well. I am also throwing myself into the gym because I have seen the difference that has made since I turned 30"
I did about 20 gym sessions in 25 days after Christmas and have noticed a difference in the distance I am hitting the ball.
"I can feel a difference in how quickly I can control my swing too. I seem to be able to control my muscles in my body a bit better.
---
I am surprised you mentioned Els, he has released a book on how to get fit for golf including muscle work etc.
The only ones I mentioned as exceptions were Cabrerra, Jiminez and Daly. Two are well off the radar now, one major aside.
---
You ask how has Clarke's game improved? Well he certainly had a good end to 08 and not a bad start to 09. Regardless of whether or not it has improved does hold much significance, the fact that he sees gym work as an neccesity is the main thing to take from that. His form of the last two years has dropped for obvious reasons too.
You also why mention Garcia, all golfers do four hours? Exactly my point, another four hours of tough training.
It's a part of the game now, A qucik google search on any player on the tour plus gym will bring up information. I would imagine that a tiny minority don;lt indulge in significant gym work.
But agree to disagree as you say. We'll leave it then. ;)
Did you have to quote all the previous posts between ye...................
:D
:D
Quote from: new devil on February 19, 2009, 08:42:09 PM
I am glad we agree that he was the best midfielder in the world to come back fron injury..weather he meant to injure halland or not is irrelevant
He was never the best, he was in the era of Zidane the greatest footballer since Maradona. And whether he meant to injure Haaland is relevant given that you stated Haaland injured Keane. Keane's references to Haaland in his autobiography made him sound pyschotic to me.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 19, 2009, 08:23:20 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 19, 2009, 08:03:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 19, 2009, 08:01:35 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 19, 2009, 07:54:30 PMif you are lying down with a career threatening injury
even if it was his own fault that he got injured?
His own fault? It was an accident, could easily happen. Just what Haaland did was crass. Surely you can admit that?
Yes - his own fault - go look at the footage. What should Haaland have done? Keane tried to injure him.
You can't say Keane tried to injure him. Second time he did. First time was just a poor tackle. I'm not going to post anymore on this because we won't agree. I've seen the footage. Keane mistimed his tackle. Maybe it was his own fault but not in the 'serves him right for trying to hurt someone' type of way you are suggesting. Haaland shouldn't have stood over him, plain and simple. He was clearly in agony. Upon realising this, a bit of humility/contrition for standing over him and calling him a cheat wouldn't have went amiss. Keane was, I repeat, wrong to do what he did in retribution. But Haaland is not completely without flaw either.
top three IMO
Lance - recovered from cancer and kicked ass
woods - will more than likely kick ass again
schumi - came back stronger then ever
Others
gaa
king herny and noel hickeys recoveries were both amazing. great hunger to get get back in the team.
football
keane done well to recover his form
The worse football injury and recovery is this
Patrick Battiston http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coSfMSUSVPI&feature=related
Corn
Last post i promise ( and look no quotes!!)
The players listed have all had substantial success since Tiger came on the scene and some have had all their sucess in that time. Tiger broke onto the scene in 96/97 but since then westwood
Westwood and Els have started using the gym in the last couple of years, they have been at the very top of their game for over a decade so its a bit iffy to thank gym work for it.
Quote from: corn02 on February 19, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
Ok every player spending three hours in a gym every day may have been a bit much but you are writing these players off as not doing gym work. I have given evidence and quotes that Mickelson, Garcia, Clarke have all got a gym-based mindset now, Clarke and Mickeslon adapting it in recent years to suggest that they think the game has shifted that way. I was watching Mickleson on Sunday night actually, didn't look particuarly chubby to me IMHO.
Ah ha so now we are going from saying Mickleson is an athlete to not being particulary chubby. I think that sums it up. I gave you a quote from Garcia where he says he goes to the gym if he has spare time, not the attitude of an athlete
I never wrote the players off as doing no work, just didnt agree with your statement that 90% do 3 hours in the gym every day.A lot of normal people use the gym every day but that doesnt make them atheles ( which is what we started discussing!)
Oh and by the way i think your first post is right ;)
The chubby thing was you saying "have you seen him lately".
Fair enough lad. We'll leave 'er.
Tony McCoy could win this.
Back to the original post, Tiger WILL be playing next weekend, a third-round clash with 'our Rory' is on the cards too.
Tiger's back. No fuss birdie, eagle (sort of, he didn't need tp put it in) on first two.
Quote from: corn02 on February 25, 2009, 07:35:39 PM
Tiger's back. No fuss birdie, eagle (sort of, he didn't need tp put it in) on first two.
Is that the equivalent of Phil Taylor throwing two consecutive 180s after injuring his throwing/drinking arm? ;)
2 up after 9... tiger looks a bit rusty but its great to have him back
Obviously chickened out at the thought of having to meet Rory McIlroy in the third round.
McIlroy 4 up after 6 holes against Clark.
The Tiger strikes again - that was a fascinating final round last night
Brilliant to watch, what an ending. The man is back!
watching that on Sunday evening, one of the things with golf is the intimidation factor- always found it fascinating in any sport. Tiger has it, Cross have it, Schumi had it, Tyson had it, Real M had it, Man U 00's had it, Liverpool 80s and 90s had it, New Zealand rugby have it.
It seems that no matter what happens, many opponents lose a bit of their ability when they compete with those who have this edge.
Quote from: heganboy on March 31, 2009, 03:51:03 PM
watching that on Sunday evening, one of the things with golf is the intimidation factor- always found it fascinating in any sport. Tiger has it, Cross have it, Schumi had it, Tyson had it, Real M had it, Man U 00's had it, Liverpool 80s and 90s had it, New Zealand rugby have it.
It seems that no matter what happens, many opponents lose a bit of their ability when they compete with those who have this edge.
Exactly. If Tigers comes goes into a fight with 99% of golfers there is only one winner. Watched highlights against last night, his putting was immense.
Quote from: heganboy on March 31, 2009, 03:51:03 PM
watching that on Sunday evening, one of the things with golf is the intimidation factor- always found it fascinating in any sport. Tiger has it, Cross have it, Schumi had it, Tyson had it, Real M had it, Man U 00's had it, Liverpool 80s and 90s had it, New Zealand rugby have it.
It seems that no matter what happens, many opponents lose a bit of their ability when they compete with those who have this edge.
i don't know about New Zealand having the intimidation factor Heganboy i know that between the world cup years they seem unbeatable but when it comes to winning the big one they fail to deliver in fact for all their talent they probably under achieve
So i see after winning the FedEx Cup last week - Tiger is the first athlete in history to earn $1 billion through winnings and endorsement money.
Crazy money
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 02, 2009, 10:16:54 PM
So i see after winning the FedEx Cup last week - Tiger is the first athlete in history to earn $1 billion through winnings and endorsement money.
Crazy money
That's an understatement.