Any word yet on the governmental Report on the army council?

[donalmac99]

Suppose I will just have to bite my lip then............
Wouldnt want the Mods to have to PM me again about cursing towards a certain member of the board

No you wouldn't, now heed their advice and my advice.

That's a good lad.

oh!!! and it's 'biting your tongue' not 'your lip' ffs

Try biting your lip

no thanks, i'll leave the self harming to you 

[donalmac99]

Impasse talks useful, say parties 

Martin McGuinness and Peter Robinson lead their party delegations
Sinn Féin and the DUP have described two hours of talks aimed at breaking the political deadlock as "useful".

Northern Ireland's Executive has not met over the summer with rows over delays in devolving policing powers.

The DUP has said it wants clarity the IRA's ruling 'army council' has gone and SF have questioned the the DUP's commitment to partnership government.

In a statement the parties said talks would continue "in the coming days and weeks".

The British and Irish governments said they were satisfied with Wednesday's independent report, which found the IRA's army council serves no function.

However, the DUP wants more clarity from the republican leadership.

First and deputy first ministers Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness lead the DUP and Sinn Féin teams for the meetings on Thursday.

The foundations for power-sharing between the DUP and Sinn Féin were laid at the St Andrews political deal of 2006, and the British and Irish governments identified May of this year as a target date for the transfer of justice powers.


St Andrews Agreement

But the DUP has insisted it will not budge until the circumstances are right. Sinn Féin has threatened to pull its ministers out of the Stormont cabinet if progress is not made soon.

'Leadership relinquished'

In a report this week the Independent Monitoring Commission, which monitors Northern Ireland's paramilitary ceasefires, said the IRA had relinquished the leadership and structures it used during the Troubles.

It said it did not expect an announcement from the IRA that the army council will disband.

In response, Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the report would "provide reassurance and hope for everybody who wants to see this chapter of Northern Ireland's history closed".

"In the next few days, I will use all my efforts, working with the parties in Northern Ireland, to make sure that the devolution of policing and justice can go ahead and the final stages of the peace process will now be completed," he said.

However, Northern Ireland's first minister, the DUP leader Peter Robinson, said the unionist community "needs to be convinced by the republican leadership that the IRA is out of business for good". Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams said: "The issue of the IRA has been dealt with definitively - all concerns have been met (and) this issue is gone."


FFS what else do the IRA have to do?


and on another note, should the DUP not be focusing on those groups that are still engaged in violence ie the loyalist death squads and the so called dissident 'republicans'?

[thejuice]

However, Northern Ireland's first minister, the DUP leader Peter Robinson, said the unionist community "needs to be convinced by the republican leadership that the IRA is out of business for good". Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams said: "The issue of the IRA has been dealt with definitively - all concerns have been met (and) this issue is gone."


FFS what else do the IRA have to do?

Deliver their heads on plates to Stormount it seems.

[Evil Genius]

Whilst I do consider Robinson is risking painting himself further into a corner and making himself look even more foolish/intransigent overall, I thought Malachi O'Doherty's take on this issue in today's Grauniad was interesting, especially the bit I've highlighted
Could it be that the IRA is resisting giving the DUP the assurances they require i.e. Provo Army council disbanded, because they fear that will leave the way clear for the Dissidents to claim sole occupancy of the Armed Republican cause?


Malachi O'Doherty guardian.co.uk, Thursday September 04 2008

The latest deadlock – and hopefully the last – in the Northern Ireland peace process is over the status of the IRA's seven-person army council. A report by the Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC) yesterday sought to reassure the two governments and the parties in the Northern Ireland executive that the army council was no longer functioning or operational.

As always the solution attempted when there is clarity needed from republicans is an attempt to get down to the linguistic nuts and bolts. The Democratic Unionist party (DUP) requires that the IRA should cease to exist.

The IMC says that it believes that the army council is "being allowed to wither away", and as always others come alongside to provide added weight; Gordon Brown saying this is enough for him and that the devolution of policing and justice powers to the executive can now proceed.

The BBC flatly reports as fact that the IMC has said that the army council is "defunct". Actually, the IMC's assessment includes the largely unnoticed detail that the IRA is still gathering intelligence on dissident republicans but that the means by which it is doing so are not necessarily illegal.

So it does exist, it does function and it does have a project in hand. Its wider project, even if it does nothing, is to maintain an old and revered republican tradition.

There is a myth that God will preserve the world so long as there are seven true believers alive at any one time. Members of the army council are, at least, the true believers of republicanism, political flat-earthers keeping alive the flame of the Fenians – who attempted to invade Canada from the US – and Padraig Pearse – who declared that Ireland was a united republic.

Few republicans would like to be the last generation of the IRA which winds up the project without completion, and that is what is expected of the army council. The DUP says that the IRA must go out of business. It has not accepted the current wordplay by the IMC, the government and the BBC. Therefore, there has to be another, finer restatement of the problem, one that inches the parties towards a shared understanding – as in the past words like "decommission" and "arms beyond use" were deployed to cover for surrender of weapons and destruction of weapons.

I suggest that if the governments are so confident that the IRA does not function illegally they have a hand to play. They could simply legalise the IRA on both sides of the border. Well why not? Why should it be illegal to be a member of an organisation which does not function in any perceptible illegal fashion?

If it is no longer an obstacle, in the eyes of government, to the devolution of policing and justice powers, then let it be a legal organisation and that will remove from the DUP much of the reasoning by which they continue to regard it as a problem.

If the governments can't do that, then surely they are conceding that the DUP has a point.

[Zapatista]

That is the biggest load of balls I've ever heard EG. You are a petty man. SF should walk now.

[Evil Genius]

That is the biggest load of balls I've ever heard EG. 

Maybe so, but I thought it was an interesting/unusual take on the issue, deserving of an airing, since it was different from the normal DUP-SF SlagFest.

You are a petty man.

"Petty" in what way? For highlighting a journo's article on the subject? For deeming Robinson foolish and intransigent? Or for taking one unnoticed aspect of the Report and suggesting it might provide an explanation for the Provos' clear disinclination to disband formally their Army Council? 
Or is it (Shock! Horror!) for daring to post something which doesn't conform strictly to the Republican orthodoxy that you and certain others would impose on this Board if you could? Now that would be petty...

SF should walk now.

You mean, collapse the Executive because they can't get their own way every time? Wasn't that what they criticised Trimble for? 

[Zapatista]

Maybe so, but I thought it was an interesting/unusual take on the issue, deserving of an airing, since it was different from the normal DUP-SF SlagFest.

It is not deserving of an airing. It is more bending and twisting of a very simple matter to get a certain result. It is taking the report and seeing how it can be intreperted and presented in a way negative way. This is the only objective of the article. It is also your only objective.

"Petty" in what way? For highlighting a journo's article on the subject? For deeming Robinson foolish and intransigent? Or for taking one unnoticed aspect of the Report and suggesting it might provide an explanation for the Provos' clear disinclination to disband formally their Army Council? 
Or is it (Shock! Horror!) for daring to post something which doesn't conform strictly to the Republican orthodoxy that you and certain others would impose on this Board if you could? Now that would be petty...

Petty in that you serve no other purpose in that post other than to justify to your self what you won't accept as the truth. Petty for clinging to the chewbacca evidence.
I am anything but an 'orthadox republican' as you put it.

You mean, collapse the Executive because they can't get their own way every time? Wasn't that what they criticised Trimble for? 

No. Collapse the Assembly for not doing their job. The Assembley is built on international agreement. The DUP and the Irish Government and to a lesser extent the British Government are in breach of that agreement. By default SF are now too. Therefore the very foundation of the Assembley has been compromised and should be collapsed.

[Evil Genius]

Maybe so, but I thought it was an interesting/unusual take on the issue, deserving of an airing, since it was different from the normal DUP-SF SlagFest.

It is not deserving of an airing.

Lord High Zapatista has Spoken, the lowly masses must bow their head in self-abasement, for daring to speak without His permission...

It is more bending and twisting of a very simple matter to get a certain result. It is taking the report and seeing how it can be intreperted and presented in a way negative way. This is the only objective of the article. It is also your only objective.

Righto Boss, you're the expert, thanks for putting us all clear on that. (In future, I'll run everything past you, first.)

"Petty" in what way? For highlighting a journo's article on the subject? For deeming Robinson foolish and intransigent? Or for taking one unnoticed aspect of the Report and suggesting it might provide an explanation for the Provos' clear disinclination to disband formally their Army Council?  
Or is it (Shock! Horror!) for daring to post something which doesn't conform strictly to the Republican orthodoxy that you and certain others would impose on this Board if you could? Now that would be petty...

Petty in that you serve no other purpose in that post other than to justify to your self what you won't accept as the truth. Petty for clinging to the chewbacca evidence.

You couldn't get me a phone number for this "Truth", by any chance? I've tried Google, 118, Yellow Pages etc, but no joy. Or is it only available to a select few? Only you, even? Oh well.

You mean, collapse the Executive because they can't get their own way every time? Wasn't that what they criticised Trimble for?  

No. Collapse the Assembly for not doing their job. The Assembley is built on international agreement. The DUP and the Irish Government and to a lesser extent the British Government are in breach of that agreement. By default SF are now too. Therefore the very foundation of the Assembley has been compromised and should be collapsed.

So because Robinson and the DUP are playing the prize pr1ck, and another party with less than a quarter of the votes cast takes the hump, the whole edifice should be collapsed, then, eh? I still don't see how this is substantively different from what Trimble did, so once collapsed, do we just feck about for a bit, maybe have another election, then come back and bugger around playing at Government for another bit, as happened last time?
Or, (bearing in mind that all five major parties, covering over 90% of the vote, profess to want the Assembly to work), do you have some alternative scheme for governing NI?

Jeez, I can't understand why they have wasted the last 10 years, when they just could have come to Zapatista the Sage, and let him tell everyone where they're going wrong!  

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

[So because Robinson and the DUP are playing the prize pr1ck, and another party with less than a quarter of the votes cast takes the hump, the whole edifice should be collapsed, then, eh? I still don't see how this is substantively different from what Trimble did, so once collapsed, do we just feck about for a bit, maybe have another election, then come back and bugger around playing at Government for another bit, as happened last time?
Or, (bearing in mind that all five major parties, covering over 90% of the vote, profess to want the Assembly to work), do you have some alternative scheme for governing NI?

Jeez, I can't understand why they have wasted the last 10 years, when they just could have come to Zapatista the Sage, and let him tell everyone where they're going wrong!  

It really says it all about you.
You twist and massage the truth/facts to suit yourself, you are are a sad man.

[Zapatista]

Maybe so, but I thought it was an interesting/unusual take on the issue, deserving of an airing, since it was different from the normal DUP-SF SlagFest.

It is not deserving of an airing.

Lord High Zapatista has Spoken, the lowly masses must bow their head in self-abasement, for daring to speak without His permission...

It is more bending and twisting of a very simple matter to get a certain result. It is taking the report and seeing how it can be intreperted and presented in a way negative way. This is the only objective of the article. It is also your only objective.

Righto Boss, you're the expert, thanks for putting us all clear on that. (In future, I'll run everything past you, first.)

"Petty" in what way? For highlighting a journo's article on the subject? For deeming Robinson foolish and intransigent? Or for taking one unnoticed aspect of the Report and suggesting it might provide an explanation for the Provos' clear disinclination to disband formally their Army Council?  
Or is it (Shock! Horror!) for daring to post something which doesn't conform strictly to the Republican orthodoxy that you and certain others would impose on this Board if you could? Now that would be petty...

Petty in that you serve no other purpose in that post other than to justify to your self what you won't accept as the truth. Petty for clinging to the chewbacca evidence.

You couldn't get me a phone number for this "Truth", by any chance? I've tried Google, 118, Yellow Pages etc, but no joy. Or is it only available to a select few? Only you, even? Oh well.

You mean, collapse the Executive because they can't get their own way every time? Wasn't that what they criticised Trimble for?  

No. Collapse the Assembly for not doing their job. The Assembley is built on international agreement. The DUP and the Irish Government and to a lesser extent the British Government are in breach of that agreement. By default SF are now too. Therefore the very foundation of the Assembley has been compromised and should be collapsed.

So because Robinson and the DUP are playing the prize pr1ck, and another party with less than a quarter of the votes cast takes the hump, the whole edifice should be collapsed, then, eh? I still don't see how this is substantively different from what Trimble did, so once collapsed, do we just feck about for a bit, maybe have another election, then come back and bugger around playing at Government for another bit, as happened last time?
Or, (bearing in mind that all five major parties, covering over 90% of the vote, profess to want the Assembly to work), do you have some alternative scheme for governing NI?

Jeez, I can't understand why they have wasted the last 10 years, when they just could have come to Zapatista the Sage, and let him tell everyone where they're going wrong!  

Yes Chewy