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Seems like the Israelis have just killed a number of international aid workers apparently including an Irish citizen.

I have seen British, Australian and Polish passports in twitter pictures but not an Irish Passport but widely reported there was an Irish person but might be due to cover of the UK of Britian and ireland passport.

I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's  Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..

If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.

You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive

Of course, it is part of an ongoing conflict and is not a simple matter.
However, Oct 7th made this an excessive response easier to organise as most of it was outright terrorism. I expect someone in Hamas expected things to turn out as they did, and believed that there was long term advantage in many deaths in Gaza.

 Israel has never need an excuse to ethic cleanse or destroy and murder Palestinians, they do it on a daily basis and every now and again they 'mow the lawn' because they can, they have total control and responsibility for their actions.

To offer some sort of justification or that Hamas wanted Gaza to be destroyed is absolving Israel regardless of what you point you want to make. Again the Israeli response is 100% within their control infact the whole situation. as the occupier is their responsibility.

the scenes out of the al shifa hospital now, 6 months into a genocide shows how little Israel and the west care about needing an excuse... sickening.

So that's a no?

No point then in discussing it

I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's  Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..

Jesus ! You are hard work.

There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.

I've not said they caused it. But you keep going 

both of these statements by you, clearer state that Hamas caused it... even if it is now not what you meant.


Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive

It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas

That's correct, if hamas never carried out that attack, Gaza today would still be standing and over 30 thousand people would be alive, as Isreal wouldn't have had the backing initially in what they have done on the back of those attacks.

That's not taking away Hamas legitimacy in resisting Israel

Jesus ! You are hard work.

There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.

I've not said they caused it. But you keep going 

both of these statements by you, clearer state that Hamas caused it... even if it is now not what you meant.


Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive

It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas

Ok, I'll ask it differently

And answer the question by itself

Don't add in other stuff please

Do you think, had the attacks not taken place that we'd be in the current situation with the death toll as high and Gaza the way it is?

I'm not absolving Israel or blaming Hamas, the attacks happened, that's real, what Israel did/doing is real.

If Israel didnt occupy Palestine, there wouldn't be a Hamas and 30 thousand would be alive. But you choose to start causation on Oct 7th... that is absolving Israel and blaming Hamas.

Israel and the west are to blame for all their actions on and after Oct 7, not Hamas.

To answer your question, the resistance is a natural reaction to a brutal occupation, it was only a matter of time. Peaceful means had failed time and time again as the west and Israel cemented the status quo of 2.2m caged in Gaza and settler expansion and violence in the west bank. The lack of humanity from the west and israelis and the death toll as high as it is, is a direct result of that inhumanity.

Jesus ! You are hard work.

There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.

I've not said they caused it. But you keep going 

both of these statements by you, clearer state that Hamas caused it... even if it is now not what you meant.


Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive

It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas

[if hamas]

you have not highlighted every attack, you made a general comment about israeli actions over 70 plus years.. but beginning to understand why when you say one thing you think you slhave say another...

your posts (prior to last one) do not say 'Israel have murdered over 30 thoudand people'

what you have said is

Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive

It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas

but Hamas did kill, and kidnapped people which has brought this latest murdering spree.

All true, what Israel have done since the attacks is indefensible, what Israel have done in 70 years is indefensible.

I'm looking at the timeline, you are going off on some tangent

But of course getting away from the reason why I posted in the first place. Some mad point scoring by itchy

Your first statement has the causation of the deaths to be Hamas not Israel. Hamas are responsible for their actions and Israelis theirs.

the 2nd again, causation, it is not due to the initial Hamas attack, there is ever extending death toll happening,   the cause of ever extending death toll is Israel.

the 3rd, causation, hamas brought this latest murdering spree... no they haven't Israel has, after 7th (aside from the deaths israel was responsible for), they decided on their actions, and they haven't had an issue killing 30 plus thousand palestines and some more Israeli hostages.

[if hamas]

you have not highlighted every attack, you made a general comment about israeli actions over 70 plus years.. but beginning to understand why when you say one thing you think you slhave say another...

your posts (prior to last one) do not say 'Israel have murdered over 30 thoudand people'

what you have said is

Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive

It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas

but Hamas did kill, and kidnapped people which has brought this latest murdering spree.

Once again blaming Hamas for 30k plus deaths... what brought the 30k plus deaths is Israelis genocide, which they choose to do themselves with the support of the west.

Hamas in keeping with International law are allow to resist their occupation by force. You have have heard of the great march a peasceful effort to bring change and the outcome...Any war crimes they (Hamas) committed they are responsible for but not for Israeli war crimes and the 30 plus they murdered, that is all on Israel and the west.

your efforts to blame the occupied and absolve the occupier are sickening to me...

I've highlighted every attack the Israeli army have committed for over 70 years

I've basically said the latest atrocities happened after the Hamas attack.

You are saying kidnapping is part of international law? Can you put a link up for that?

you have not highlighted every attack the Israeli army committed over 7O years. LIE

so Hamas is not the cause of the 30k plus murders? Israel supported by the west is the cause?

I did not say kidnapping is part of international law.  I said resisting an occupation by force is. I went on to say that any war crimes Hamas committed they are responsible for.

Once again blaming Hamas for 30k plus deaths... what brought the 30k plus deaths is Israelis genocide, which they choose to do themselves with the support of the west.

Hamas in keeping with International law are allow to resist their occupation by force. You have have heard of the great march a peasceful effort to bring change and the outcome...Any war crimes they (Hamas) committed they are responsible for but not for Israeli war crimes and the 30 plus they murdered, that is all on Israel and the west.

your efforts to blame the occupied and absolve the occupier are sickening to me...

[Israel and its enablers are responsible for the 30k plus murders]

I'm happy to stand over my post, the initial attacks have given Israel the 'excuse' to obliterate Gazza, I've also said that they have done that for 70 plus years, but the attacks have been used to speed things up.

Do you think that since the time of the attacks so many people would have been murdered and Gazza flattened?
 

ofcourse you are happy to stand over them, you see resistence to an occupation as the issue and trigger and 'excuse' not the occupation, fixating on Oct.7.

The occupation is the cause and the resistence is a reaction to it. I hoped the US/UK/EU wouldn't support never mind arm a genocide, especially given how anti occupation they had become but they have let Israel murder with impunity

Not going down a rabbit hole here. My initial post at this particular time was point scoring with the rocket attack at the hospital and people will feel foolish!

You've avoided my question, not surprising. So I'm done with chasing it

even your question is framed to absolve Israel... if Hamas hadn't resisted the occupation than 30k plus wouldnt be dead... that's what you asking me...its Hamas fault that Israel is committing a genocide!!!.. 

Well I've answered, Israel and its enablers are responsible for the 30k plus murders, they are committing a genocide not Hamas, their occupation created the resistence, their ethic cleansing since the nakba has created the environment for the last 75 years.

I'm happy to stand over my post, the initial attacks have given Israel the 'excuse' to obliterate Gazza, I've also said that they have done that for 70 plus years, but the attacks have been used to speed things up.

Do you think that since the time of the attacks so many people would have been murdered and Gazza flattened?
 

ofcourse you are happy to stand over them, you see resistence to an occupation as the issue and trigger and 'excuse' not the occupation, fixating on Oct.7.

The occupation is the cause and the resistence is a reaction to it. I hoped the US/UK/EU wouldn't support never mind arm a genocide, especially given how anti occupation they had become but they have let Israel murder with impunity

[due]

I never want to see people absolving those who occupy and commit a genocide. Your words..

Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive

It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas

[that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas]

Remember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.

Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?

Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?

Nuts

Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.

Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response

When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.

No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..

It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.

It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.

You are talking out your hole by the way

if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.

Are you saying 30 plus thousand people would have been murdered in that period of time had the attacks not happened?

Saying people will feel stupid because they questioned whether a rocket hit a hospital from either group is a stupid post.

My post is purely highlighting a daft post

I am saying 30k plus wouldnt have been murdered if Israel didn't occupy Palestine for 75 years plus.  Blaming and the framing of Hamas being responsible for 30k plus murders because they resisted an occupation is a stupid and ignorant statement,  aimed at absolving Israel and the west for their genocide. 

I'm absolving no one. They are your words.

I simply said that since the attacks over 30 thousand (and rising) deaths have happened and Gaza has been flattened with further refugees on top of refugees have been displaced

What Isreal have done is inexcusable and murder/genocide, hamas attack has allowed Israel the opportunity to do it quicker

Again I don't know anyone who's saying different.

But point scoring on who rocketed a hospital is all I'm talking about.

The bit I have in bold and your initial response shows exactly how I've summarised it, you absolving the occupier.

[that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas]

Remember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.

Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?

Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?

Nuts

Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.

Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response

When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.

No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..

It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.

It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.

You are talking out your hole by the way

if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.

Are you saying 30 plus thousand people would have been murdered in that period of time had the attacks not happened?

Saying people will feel stupid because they questioned whether a rocket hit a hospital from either group is a stupid post.

My post is purely highlighting a daft post

I am saying 30k plus wouldnt have been murdered if Israel didn't occupy Palestine for 75 years plus.  Blaming and the framing of Hamas being responsible for 30k plus murders because they resisted an occupation is a stupid and ignorant statement,  aimed at absolving Israel and the west for their genocide. 

[that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas]

Remember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.

Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?

Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?

Nuts

Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.

Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response

When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.

No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..

It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.

It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.

You are talking out your hole by the way

if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.