Are Michael O Neill and Gerry Armstong Off Their Heads??

[lynchbhoy]

I understood his past tense was defined in the line 'the ghosts of the past still hover over WP'

But I agree in general with your point because even if Brolly was referring to the past, he is far from clear and much of that paraphenalia has been dropped from the WP repetoire ages ago.
And it does nobody any good to be repeating these things from the past, time and time again, as if it's a reflection of current day.  No honest cause is served by painting false images of the NI support.
Brolly is a soliciter and should know better how to compose the structure of a debate based on facts and ideology.

However the ghosts of the past still hover, as I referred to earlier in this thread could be evidenced in the Ni fans representatives on Wendy's morning radio show, where  the old supremacy views bares its teeth after a little 'prodding'. And these were the reps of the NI fans. Okay, I might make an allowance for emotion getting ahead of rational argument but the more they open their mouths the more you might get the impression that the old bigotry is just under the new suit.

While Ibelieve that it is no longer as dangerous for a nationalist/cathoilic/Irish person to go to a ni soccer game - I suspect  that what you have written (above in bold) is most likely still very true.
you only have to look on here at the responses in various threads to support your point.

union jacks were meant to no longer be part of the suppots flags - but they are still evident - last time I looked (think it was at the Aviva stadium in the four nations tournament).

both fai and ifa should be disbanded and a proper Ireland team should take their place under a new governing body. same as the rugby.

[Hardy]

The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:

"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".

Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point

And there were more Catholics playing for Linfield last Saturday than the total number of Orange Order members with Catholic spouses since the foundation of that organisation in 1796. 

Sorry, FÓSB, but this is a gear grinder for me. There is no equivalence between the OO and the GAA and to present them as equivalent representatives of respective communities does a great disservice to the GAA, which is a sporting and cultural organisation, open to all. The Orange Order, on the other hand is a viciously sectarian outfit which excludes and denigrates people for their religious beliefs and whose whole purpose is sectarian discrimination.

[Hardy]

Why not? They seem to have a committee for most other things. Jarlath Burns sits on a couple of them in fact...
http://ulster.gaa.ie/council/committees/
Of course, he's not a GAA official, Lord no.

Who claimed he is not an official?  What is your point?

He is a teacher too!  Must his school/department also issue a statement vis-a-vis his support of Marty's presidential campaign?

Ditto Brolly and his occupation as a barrister.  Should we expect the law library to make known their formal position on eligibility rules for international football.

Quite frankly, you are talking patent nonsense here.  I am a GAA member and I am quite happy that the GAA don't have a formal position on said rules or on the candidacy of anyone running for president.  It's as it should be.  Individual members can hold their views and good luck to them.

/Jim.

Indeed. Enda Kenny is a member of the GAA, often to be heard making public statements. He recently strongly attacked the Catholic Church. Therefore the GAA is anti-catholic. See how it works in Mylesworld?

[Rossfan]

[Brolly says at the end: "Some follow the green, white and gold. Some the red, white and blue.

Only Offaly people ( and Oran of course ) follow the green/white/gold.
Meanwhile the Irish national Flag is Green/White /ORANGE

[Maguire01]

Anyway, given that the only reason Shane Duffy didn't win a cap for Northern Ireland back in 2009 was that Nigel Worthington left him on the bench in the friendly against Italy, Brolly's making a rather spurious point (and remember Duffy played for NI at all underage levels and at B international level too).

Yeah, that blows Brolly's argument on that point right out of the water.

[Leo]

"both fai and ifa should be disbanded and a proper Ireland team should take their place under a new governing body. same as the rugby"

Won't be easy.
The soccer body in the 6 counties IS the Irish Football Association and its history pre-dates partition. It was the FAI who were set up in the 26 after partition - a break-away if you like - so it could be argued that the onus is on them to come back into the fold.
And pigs might fly.

[lynchbhoy]

"both fai and ifa should be disbanded and a proper Ireland team should take their place under a new governing body. same as the rugby"

Won't be easy.
The soccer body in the 6 counties IS the Irish Football Association and its history pre-dates partition. It was the FAI who were set up in the 26 after partition - a break-away if you like - so it could be argued that the onus is on them to come back into the fold.
And pigs might fly.

yep I think we would all agree that it wouldnt be easy
but as I hear most supporters of either association are very unhappy with these muppets (ifa and fai) then surely it makes sense...

personally I'd much rather see an Ireland team - like the rugby.
I think most Irish fans would welcome it. However I suspect that most ni fans wouldnt !

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:

"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".

Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point

And there were more Catholics playing for Linfield last Saturday than the total number of Orange Order members with Catholic spouses since the foundation of that organisation in 1796. 

Sorry, FÓSB, but this is a gear grinder for me. There is no equivalence between the OO and the GAA and to present them as equivalent representatives of respective communities does a great disservice to the GAA, which is a sporting and cultural organisation, open to all. The Orange Order, on the other hand is a viciously sectarian outfit which excludes and denigrates people for their religious beliefs and whose whole purpose is sectarian discrimination.

Hardy, you're absolutely correct, there's not remotely an equivalence, however, I was merely pointing up how ridiculous a comparison it was in the first instance, a reductio ad absurdum if you will.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

I have already said in another post that I have first hand experience of this outside the ground. I have also had second hand evidence from trusted sources. Your evidence is no stronger than that, you are just another second hand source to me also. So its a choice of who to believe and I have never met you so I choose to go with other people's evidence[/b]

You've been told by other people on this thread that it doesn't happen. I've been posting on here for nearly 8 years (Lordy) and I'd like to think that those who've had the misfortune to follow my posts over some of that duration would know that I'm not in the business of denying instances of sectarianism. "The Billy Boys" is not sung at Northern Ireland matches, and these "trusted sources" of yours, if they exist, are misleading you in a quite appalling way.

I can see you're struggling here so let me help you with a little soccer metaphor that's quite common in this context - "play the man, not the ball". I did not call you wierd, I called your version of events wierd. Similarly, I called your version of events fantasy.- That was personal enough to me

Well it's not personal whatsoever (ball, not man), and if you don't like an erroneous version of events being called out, you really shouldn't bother with a discussion forum

Au contraire, I enjoy being challenged - one of the reasons I enjoy posting on here. I don't like downright lies and silly personal comments.-Well stop making so many then

You really, really need to understand the difference between your views and statements criticised and making a personal comment, or you're never going to be able to engage is adult debate and discussion.

Can you point me to where you think I said it was acceptable?- You implied it

No, I did not. You (wrongly) inferred it.

Well, evidently not having seen this UTV Live report, can direct me to another source? One I can view/read?-  Cant at the minute, what am I UTV live archivist? Why would i make this up though[[/b]quote]

Why did you make up the stuff about "The Billy Boys" still being sung at NI games?

Pretty significant difference between what you say and what the BBC report says.- How?[/i]

For starters, the article doesn't actually directly link the PSNI to the Dublin authorities' decision.

As I said I started the thread to discuss the whole shindig[/i]

And I am calling you out on your "Billy Boys" fantasy.

And there are not Union Flags in "big numbers". Unlike Tricolours at Ireland rugby games, which you don't have the cojones to attempt a comment on.- Of course there is, wise up lad, its all over You Tube and other places. As for Tricolours at rugby matches thats because thats the National Team and Flag. The Union Jack is not the NI flag.[/b]

If you think single figures are "big numbers", maybe.

You've just revealed a hell of a lot with that comment, by the way. The Ireland rugby team represents the island of Ireland (32 counties) - the Tricolour is the national flag of the Republic of Ireland. Isn't it rather hypocritical all your talk about flags and the rest here, when you have apparently absolutely no issue with the many, many ROI flags (many times more than you'd see Union flags at a NI football match) at Ireland rugby games?

By the way, the Union flag actually is the official NI flag...but still, I'm not a fan of its unofficial use at NI matches.

It isn't sectarian. And again I ask - what's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games.- I said perceived. If I thought a neutral anthem would encourage more Unionists to play, I woulnt be against it. How could you be?[/b]

Good - I hope you make those views known.

You seem genuine and passionate about NI Team so if you really want to crack this issue dont underestimate the perceived indimitation that Windsor holds for many. I am comparitively broad minded to many others and look at how difficult i am to convince [/b]

Two comments here: I think you're difficult to convince because you're believing what you want to believe. And challenging untruths like you have posted on here, and Mr Brolly had published in the Derry Journal, will actually help towards lowering the "perceived intimidation".

Hate to finish off on a bad note but what a feable excuse for being hateful[/i]

Lordy, that takes the biscuit. Saying your odd comments directed against me mde me think maybe you weren't the full shilling is "being hateful"? You've clearly been very, very lucky so far in your interpersonal relationships.

And weren't you the person who said to me..."A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality", and also said..."WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!". Again, you should watch how easy it is to come across as a hypocrite...

This is my last reply on the subject because as I said maybe 6 posts ago we should agree to disagree, and you are clearly a very rude person, which is a pity because some of your points do seem valid, but they have been ruined by the manner in which you make them. As regards the rugby flags, yes the Tricolour is the dominant flag, but the Ulster Flag is flown on the mast next to it all all home games and the IRFU employed Phil Coulter to compose a more neutral anthem which would encompass the whle island. Imagine having the tricolour flying high at Windsor for all NI home games!!

[Myles Na G.]

I have already said in another post that I have first hand experience of this outside the ground. I have also had second hand evidence from trusted sources. Your evidence is no stronger than that, you are just another second hand source to me also. So its a choice of who to believe and I have never met you so I choose to go with other people's evidence[/b]

You've been told by other people on this thread that it doesn't happen. I've been posting on here for nearly 8 years (Lordy) and I'd like to think that those who've had the misfortune to follow my posts over some of that duration would know that I'm not in the business of denying instances of sectarianism. "The Billy Boys" is not sung at Northern Ireland matches, and these "trusted sources" of yours, if they exist, are misleading you in a quite appalling way.

I can see you're struggling here so let me help you with a little soccer metaphor that's quite common in this context - "play the man, not the ball". I did not call you wierd, I called your version of events wierd. Similarly, I called your version of events fantasy.- That was personal enough to me

Well it's not personal whatsoever (ball, not man), and if you don't like an erroneous version of events being called out, you really shouldn't bother with a discussion forum

Au contraire, I enjoy being challenged - one of the reasons I enjoy posting on here. I don't like downright lies and silly personal comments.-Well stop making so many then

You really, really need to understand the difference between your views and statements criticised and making a personal comment, or you're never going to be able to engage is adult debate and discussion.

Can you point me to where you think I said it was acceptable?- You implied it

No, I did not. You (wrongly) inferred it.

Well, evidently not having seen this UTV Live report, can direct me to another source? One I can view/read?-  Cant at the minute, what am I UTV live archivist? Why would i make this up though[[/b]quote]

Why did you make up the stuff about "The Billy Boys" still being sung at NI games?

Pretty significant difference between what you say and what the BBC report says.- How?[/i]

For starters, the article doesn't actually directly link the PSNI to the Dublin authorities' decision.

As I said I started the thread to discuss the whole shindig[/i]

And I am calling you out on your "Billy Boys" fantasy.

And there are not Union Flags in "big numbers". Unlike Tricolours at Ireland rugby games, which you don't have the cojones to attempt a comment on.- Of course there is, wise up lad, its all over You Tube and other places. As for Tricolours at rugby matches thats because thats the National Team and Flag. The Union Jack is not the NI flag.[/b]

If you think single figures are "big numbers", maybe.

You've just revealed a hell of a lot with that comment, by the way. The Ireland rugby team represents the island of Ireland (32 counties) - the Tricolour is the national flag of the Republic of Ireland. Isn't it rather hypocritical all your talk about flags and the rest here, when you have apparently absolutely no issue with the many, many ROI flags (many times more than you'd see Union flags at a NI football match) at Ireland rugby games?

By the way, the Union flag actually is the official NI flag...but still, I'm not a fan of its unofficial use at NI matches.

It isn't sectarian. And again I ask - what's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games.- I said perceived. If I thought a neutral anthem would encourage more Unionists to play, I woulnt be against it. How could you be?[/b]

Good - I hope you make those views known.

You seem genuine and passionate about NI Team so if you really want to crack this issue dont underestimate the perceived indimitation that Windsor holds for many. I am comparitively broad minded to many others and look at how difficult i am to convince [/b]

Two comments here: I think you're difficult to convince because you're believing what you want to believe. And challenging untruths like you have posted on here, and Mr Brolly had published in the Derry Journal, will actually help towards lowering the "perceived intimidation".

Hate to finish off on a bad note but what a feable excuse for being hateful[/i]

Lordy, that takes the biscuit. Saying your odd comments directed against me mde me think maybe you weren't the full shilling is "being hateful"? You've clearly been very, very lucky so far in your interpersonal relationships.

And weren't you the person who said to me..."A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality", and also said..."WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!". Again, you should watch how easy it is to come across as a hypocrite...

This is my last reply on the subject because as I said maybe 6 posts ago we should agree to disagree, and you are clearly a very rude person, which is a pity because some of your points do seem valid, but they have been ruined by the manner in which you make them. As regards the rugby flags, yes the Tricolour is the dominant flag, but the Ulster Flag is flown on the mast next to it all all home games and the IRFU employed Phil Coulter to compose a more neutral anthem which would encompass the whle island. Imagine having the tricolour flying high at Windsor for all NI home games!!

The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. It should be both or neither. In this case, the IRFU gets it wrong.

[Myles Na G.]

Why not? They seem to have a committee for most other things. Jarlath Burns sits on a couple of them in fact...
http://ulster.gaa.ie/council/committees/
Of course, he's not a GAA official, Lord no.

Who claimed he is not an official?  What is your point?

He is a teacher too!  Must his school/department also issue a statement vis-a-vis his support of Marty's presidential campaign?

Ditto Brolly and his occupation as a barrister.  Should we expect the law library to make known their formal position on eligibility rules for international football.

Quite frankly, you are talking patent nonsense here.  I am a GAA member and I am quite happy that the GAA don't have a formal position on said rules or on the candidacy of anyone running for president.  It's as it should be.  Individual members can hold their views and good luck to them.

/Jim.

Indeed. Enda Kenny is a member of the GAA, often to be heard making public statements. He recently strongly attacked the Catholic Church. Therefore the GAA is anti-catholic. See how it works in Mylesworld?

Good point. I enjoy Enda's contributions as a GAA pundit on BBC and RTE, while his articles in 'Gaelic Times' are right on the mark, IMO. I'm also aware he does sterling work on the many GAA committees he sits on. 

[Rossfan]

The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .

The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.

[michaelg]

The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .

The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.

As for the FAI "accidently" flying the yellow flag before replacing it with the Northern Ireland flag prior to the most recent ROI vs NI international? - Petty in the extreme.  Given the steps taken by the IFA to make football more inclusive in the "6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc", actions such as this are hardly helping matters.  Funnily enough, this was not really widely reported.  Can you imagine the stink if the IFA pulled a similar stunt?

[Rossfan]

The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .

The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.

As for the FAI "accidently" flying the yellow flag before replacing it with the Northern Ireland flag prior to the most recent ROI vs NI international? - Petty in the extreme.  Given the steps taken by the IFA to make football more inclusive in the "6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc", actions such as this are hardly helping matters.  Funnily enough, this was not really widely reported.  Can you imagine the stink if the IFA pulled a similar stunt?

Going a biteen out of your way to be offended there Michaelín 
There isn't a North(east)ern Ireland flag any more. ..  so  surely a green flag with the IFA crest in it is the appropriate flag when that area's soccer team is playing . Also might help with the oul inclusive soccer for all business  (and before you go whatabout -  yes I know the GAA could simply fly no flag in the 6 Cos.)

[michaelg]

The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .

The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.

As for the FAI "accidently" flying the yellow flag before replacing it with the Northern Ireland flag prior to the most recent ROI vs NI international? - Petty in the extreme.  Given the steps taken by the IFA to make football more inclusive in the "6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc", actions such as this are hardly helping matters.  Funnily enough, this was not really widely reported.  Can you imagine the stink if the IFA pulled a similar stunt?

Going a biteen out of your way to be offended there Michaelín 
There isn't a North(east)ern Ireland flag any more. ..  so  surely a green flag with the IFA crest in it is the appropriate flag when that area's soccer team is playing . Also might help with the oul inclusive soccer for all business  (and before you go whatabout -  yes I know the GAA could simply fly no flag in the 6 Cos.)

Not offended in the slightest - I was simply stating that their actions were petty and unlikely to achieve anything positive