Man Utd Thread:

[magpie seanie]

Seanie here's the wee problem.

United have a substantially weaker midfield than any of the other "big  6", and a substantially weaker midfield than Wolves and Leicester. Possibly Everton too.

They cannot make the top 4 with that midfield unless they play 8 behind the ball and their front 3 have excellent, injury free seasons. But that style of football was the main reason for moving along Mourninho. Ole surely cannot regress into it.

United will do well to break 62/62 points this season.

I agree. I'm typically an optimist and would hope you could get a relatively decent run of lads not getting injured but that's a fairly realistic projection. I'm concerned that Fred seems to have disappeared off the radar after showing some positive signs once he got a run of games under Ole last season. Had hoped he'd kick on and become a consitent performer. If he doesn't you're relying on Matic improving greatly on last season and McTominay continuing to develop. We all know what Pogba brings.....capable of anything but not consistent and reliable and in need of players round him who cover for his errors. Herrera is a huge loss in the contect of where the team is now.

Ole won't resort to that shit Mourinho plays and it goes without saying he won't disgrace the club at every turn with idiotic comments and poor behaviour. You can see the patience won't be there from some quarters but I think any sensible appraisal would be that this is a rebuild job that will take a couple more years after this. In his first transfer window he has added what look like 3 good players and got rid of a lot of dead wood (even if some are still on the payroll). Gaps this season will be filled by young players, not overpaid mercenaries. My guess is the young lads won't do much worse that Mourinho's mercenaries. Lack of goals (Lukaku's) will be the main difference.

[Joeythelips]

Seanie here's the wee problem.

United have a substantially weaker midfield than any of the other "big  6", and a substantially weaker midfield than Wolves and Leicester. Possibly Everton too.

They cannot make the top 4 with that midfield unless they play 8 behind the ball and their front 3 have excellent, injury free seasons. But that style of football was the main reason for moving along Mourninho. Ole surely cannot regress into it.

United will do well to break 62/62 points this season.

I agree. I'm typically an optimist and would hope you could get a relatively decent run of lads not getting injured but that's a fairly realistic projection. I'm concerned that Fred seems to have disappeared off the radar after showing some positive signs once he got a run of games under Ole last season. Had hoped he'd kick on and become a consitent performer. If he doesn't you're relying on Matic improving greatly on last season and McTominay continuing to develop. We all know what Pogba brings.....capable of anything but not consistent and reliable and in need of players round him who cover for his errors. Herrera is a huge loss in the contect of where the team is now.

Ole won't resort to that shit Mourinho plays and it goes without saying he won't disgrace the club at every turn with idiotic comments and poor behaviour. You can see the patience won't be there from some quarters but I think any sensible appraisal would be that this is a rebuild job that will take a couple more years after this. In his first transfer window he has added what look like 3 good players and got rid of a lot of dead wood (even if some are still on the payroll). Gaps this season will be filled by young players, not overpaid mercenaries. My guess is the young lads won't do much worse that Mourinho's mercenaries. Lack of goals (Lukaku's) will be the main difference.

I dont think Herrara is that big a loss to be honest, I was at teh Milan pre season game and thought McTominay is ideal as the holding role, Fred can play that role also (Matic looks finished to me) but for all the ball they had there was no one who could thread a decent pass to link midfield and forwards. Mata is the nearest they have bit his legs are gone. I went to the game hoping to see Greenwood who most people are praising, he came on but it was Gomes another youngster who impressed me, very tricky skilful player and would love to see him get a run.

Up front also to me it seemed like they need a proper striker, most of the time Rashford and Martial picked up the ball they we out wide and ended up crossing the ball into an empty penalty area. Given how much the defence has improved with the summer signings I think those 2 positions would really knit this team together.

[BennyCake]

Given United are light up front with no big signing looking likely, why didn't they buy back Javier Hernandez? West Ham let him go.

[TabClear]

Given United are light up front with no big signing looking likely, why didn't they buy back Javier Hernandez? West Ham let him go.

I like Hernandez as a player but if united fans are worried that Ole did not sign someone West Ham did not want things must be bad.

I actually think the doom and gloom is overstated. As seanie said United have had no luck so far, dominated against CP, should have beat a Southampton side that, bar a shocking miss from Ings could easily have drawn with Liverpool a week earlier and had two missed penalties. Forgetting about all the nonsense about who is the designated penalty taker its unusual for a club to miss two on the bounce and Rashford's in particular was unlucky. If both of those had went in (as you would generally expect) things would look very different.

James and maguire have both settled in well and look like  good signings. I do think they are short of cover in midfield and a couple of key injuries could leave them really exposed but overall I expect them to be comfortably top six and probably top four. A lot will depend on how they handle the Thursday/Sunday fixtures. Given their reasonably kind draw they should get Greenwood/Gomes etc some minutes which they will probably need between now and Christmas in the premier league.

[BennyCake]

One positive recently is Ole has shifted some of that dead wood: Smalling, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku. A few more to go though.

[NAG1]

One positive recently is Ole has shifted some of that dead wood: Smalling, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku. A few more to go though.

Well you take that into account plus Herrera and a couple in the door, the clear seems to be well and truly under way.

As we all know it was never going to be done in one or even two transfer windows, even in January I wouldnt expect much movement, so it will be into next summer before we see what Ole really has planned for the recruitment side of things.

[Ed Ricketts]

This 'it'll take several transfer windows to sort out the squad at United' line is a bit perplexing. What do those coming out with it actually mean? If they're on about rebuilding the squad to the point that challenging the top two for titles again is a realistic goal, then of course there's a lot of work to be done. But the immediate concern should have been with establishing the club as at least the best of the rest. And some big steps in that direction could have been made with appropriate recruitment over the course of just one transfer window, this summer.

United are short quality in midfield and attack. This was abundantly clear long before the end of last season. At least one more player should have been recruited in each of these areas. Foresight and finance should not have been issues. It has been a failure of management, at some or all levels within the club, to go into this season with such glaring squad deficiencies. Falling short of CL football again next season is now a strong prospect, which would in turn create difficulties recruiting future preferred targets, which in turn slows momentum and sees the club continue to stagnate 'two or three transfer windows' away from challenging again. United fans should be angrier about what went on this summer. The road back to the top is long, but the club could and should be further down that road by now.

[nrico2006]

One positive recently is Ole has shifted some of that dead wood: Smalling, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku. A few more to go though.

Well you take that into account plus Herrera and a couple in the door, the clear seems to be well and truly under way.

As we all know it was never going to be done in one or even two transfer windows, even in January I wouldnt expect much movement, so it will be into next summer before we see what Ole really has planned for the recruitment side of things.

How has Jones remained though?  Should have been first out.

[TabClear]

One positive recently is Ole has shifted some of that dead wood: Smalling, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku. A few more to go though.

Well you take that into account plus Herrera and a couple in the door, the clear seems to be well and truly under way.

As we all know it was never going to be done in one or even two transfer windows, even in January I wouldnt expect much movement, so it will be into next summer before we see what Ole really has planned for the recruitment side of things.

How has Jones remained though?  Should have been first out.

Other teams  have seen Jones play

[magpie seanie]

One positive recently is Ole has shifted some of that dead wood: Smalling, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku. A few more to go though.

Well you take that into account plus Herrera and a couple in the door, the clear seems to be well and truly under way.

As we all know it was never going to be done in one or even two transfer windows, even in January I wouldnt expect much movement, so it will be into next summer before we see what Ole really has planned for the recruitment side of things.

How has Jones remained though?  Should have been first out.

Other teams  have seen Jones play

The lad gives his best when he plays. He's never short of effort. There have been times throughout his career when he has actually looked decent. Started about half the league games when United last won the league and has 27 caps so he's nowhere near as bad a player as he's made out to be. Smalling is similar. Worth having around as squad players.

[Cunny Funt]

The problem with Jones is he can't stay fit and while he can look decent at times his next big error isn't far away.  Smalling was better and more reliable option than Jones IMO but he was awful with the ball at his feet.

I'd agree on the loss of Herrera he had leadership that this United squad is lacking, not replacing him was a big error in the transfer window.  The likes of Wolves,Everton.Leicester have better midfield options than McTominay,Pereira,Lingard. A Proper re-building would be trusting younger players (Garner,Gomes) than playing Mata,Matic who have no future at this club as both are finished as top level footballers.

[BennyCake]

One positive recently is Ole has shifted some of that dead wood: Smalling, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku. A few more to go though.

Well you take that into account plus Herrera and a couple in the door, the clear seems to be well and truly under way.

As we all know it was never going to be done in one or even two transfer windows, even in January I wouldnt expect much movement, so it will be into next summer before we see what Ole really has planned for the recruitment side of things.

How has Jones remained though?  Should have been first out.

Other teams  have seen Jones play

The lad gives his best when he plays. He's never short of effort. There have been times throughout his career when he has actually looked decent. Started about half the league games when United last won the league and has 27 caps so he's nowhere near as bad a player as he's made out to be. Smalling is similar. Worth having around as squad players.

Yeah, so did Ali Dei. You know, George Weah's cousin.

As for Smalling, I never want to see him in an United shirt again. He is an absolute clown.

[Look-Up!]

Given United are light up front with no big signing looking likely, why didn't they buy back Javier Hernandez? West Ham let him go.

I like Hernandez as a player but if united fans are worried that Ole did not sign someone West Ham did not want things must be bad.

I actually think the doom and gloom is overstated. As seanie said United have had no luck so far, dominated against CP, should have beat a Southampton side that, bar a shocking miss from Ings could easily have drawn with Liverpool a week earlier and had two missed penalties. Forgetting about all the nonsense about who is the designated penalty taker its unusual for a club to miss two on the bounce and Rashford's in particular was unlucky. If both of those had went in (as you would generally expect) things would look very different.

James and maguire have both settled in well and look like  good signings. I do think they are short of cover in midfield and a couple of key injuries could leave them really exposed but overall I expect them to be comfortably top six and probably top four. A lot will depend on how they handle the Thursday/Sunday fixtures. Given their reasonably kind draw they should get Greenwood/Gomes etc some minutes which they will probably need between now and Christmas in the premier league.

I'd agree that they have been unlucky so far but unfortunately that is the story for most teams outside the top. I'm not saying they are mid table but the difference between the top teams and the rest is that if you don't have a 20+ goals a season proven striker you are going to drop points. Whether United have this striker in their ranks at the moment is up for debate and we won't know till May but Rashford (as great and all as his potential is) has only hit the 10 mark once. Same with Martial and as someone else said they are more wide type of players. James looks a talent but again it's a long season and 20+ goals is a very tough target. United's progress up through the table this season will be hugely affected by the final tally or combined tallies these guys can come up with and so far they are unproven in this regard. So there is a bit of pressure on them because they will have to produce a career best return in order for United to be pushing for top 4.   

[Joeythelips]

This 'it'll take several transfer windows to sort out the squad at United' line is a bit perplexing. What do those coming out with it actually mean? If they're on about rebuilding the squad to the point that challenging the top two for titles again is a realistic goal, then of course there's a lot of work to be done. But the immediate concern should have been with establishing the club as at least the best of the rest. And some big steps in that direction could have been made with appropriate recruitment over the course of just one transfer window, this summer.

United are short quality in midfield and attack. This was abundantly clear long before the end of last season. At least one more player should have been recruited in each of these areas. Foresight and finance should not have been issues. It has been a failure of management, at some or all levels within the club, to go into this season with such glaring squad deficiencies. Falling short of CL football again next season is now a strong prospect, which would in turn create difficulties recruiting future preferred targets, which in turn slows momentum and sees the club continue to stagnate 'two or three transfer windows' away from challenging again. United fans should be angrier about what went on this summer. The road back to the top is long, but the club could and should be further down that road by now.

'Falling short of CL football again next season is now a strong prospect,' it's more than a strong prospect it's almost a certainty in my book. Falling outside the top 6 is a strong prospect.

The reason some of us think it will take several transfer windows to sort united out is that to get the missing pieces of the puzzle we need to attract some top quality players, having champions league football would really help this and thats unlikely for next summers window. Also whatever you think of uniteds team, take a look at their bench (v Southampton it was Lingard, Rojo, Romero, Greenwood, Matic, Tuanzebe, Chong) the squad really lacks the depth needed to get top 4 IMO.

[magpie seanie]

I don't believe Martial and Rashford are wide players. I think they have predominantly played wide as there has been a (static) big name centre forward like Rooney or Lukaku there most of the time who has always been picked to play through the middle. One upside of how the squad is this year is we'll see them get a good few games through the middle or when they play wide they might have a "9" who works and moves. You see at Liverpool how important Firmino is to Mané and Salah.....they wouldn't get the goals they get without his work. United haven't had that so my hope is that with a more mobile front three, Martial and Rashford can get more goals. I don't expect James to keep up this scoring rate but he has looked better than I'd hoped so far.