The Offical Glasgow Celtic thread

[clarshack]

there was a game on celtic tv the other night from the john barnes era. larsson scored a hat trick, viduka scored a hat trick and berkovic got one. they played breathtaking football at times - something that the current team simply cannot do. a week later and larsson breaks his leg in lyon. would it have been different for barnes if he had a fit larsson?

[lfdown2]

yeah thats fine, of course his signings were better- how many £3.5- £6m players has strachan been able to sign?
o neill inherited players like petrov, larsson, lubo, to complete his squad

well if we look at 30+ million and say 6mil players he would have been able to sign 5, look of course of them 5 maybe 2 will not work out all im saying is that  4-5 good players is one hell of a core to build a team round could we name 4-5 of the current squad you would honestly build a team around, at the minute we have a weak to average back 4 about 30+ midfielders and one striker who is scoring goals, now maybe i have set my sights too high but i think celtic are a better football club than this

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchboy, you would also agree that the team was in need of major overhaul when WGS tookover, as evidenced by the throwing away of the league title in the dying minutes of the final game of the previous season, and WGS didn't inherit any players of the calibre of Larsson, Moravcik etc.

The real criticism is why the team wasn't bolstered immediately after the 2003 UEFA Cup Final

My contention remains that both O'Neill and Strachan have done admirable jobs at Celtic Park. But even the current issue of NTV questions the style of football played by O'Neill post Henrik.

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u

big problem was the amount of inj , and MON was guilty of being too loyal to the old guard and not giving some of the younger lads a run when needed. He made a mistake - but that didnt happen often !

buying quality players over a rake of mediocre players I think is the way to go, they all cost much the same
a couple of top notch players helping you progress inthe CL and their wages wouldnt cost that much more than a heap of shaun maloneys that will do fcuk all for the team (apart from the reserves)

[Myles Na G.]

Lynchboy, you would also agree that the team was in need of major overhaul when WGS tookover, as evidenced by the throwing away of the league title in the dying minutes of the final game of the previous season, and WGS didn't inherit any players of the calibre of Larsson, Moravcik etc.

The real criticism is why the team wasn't bolstered immediately after the 2003 UEFA Cup Final

My contention remains that both O'Neill and Strachan have done admirable jobs at Celtic Park. But even the current issue of NTV questions the style of football played by O'Neill post Henrik.

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u
big problem was the amount of inj , and MON was guilty of being too loyal to the old guard and not giving some of the younger lads a run when needed. He made a mistake - but that didnt happen often !

buying quality players over a rake of mediocre players I think is the way to go, they all cost much the same
a couple of top notch players helping you progress inthe CL and their wages wouldnt cost that much more than a heap of shaun maloneys that will do fcuk all for the team (apart from the reserves)

He turned out to be a world beater, didn't he? A handful of promising appearances doesn't make for a great player. (remember Jamie Smith??) I'm a big fan of MON and what he achieved at CP, but Strach's record betters him. He took over an ageing squad and turned it into a championship winning side. He took the Hoops into the latter stages of European competition, where MON couldn't manage it, despite his big money signings. Give the wee man a break.

[Main Street]

Strachans best period was the superb run in last year.


But get the big money signings myth out of the equation.
Mon had not spent anymore money than Strachan has. Mon had the confidence and nous to sign quality not quantity.
Give Strachan £10m and he'll buy 10 players.
I´d take O'Neill´s CL record over Strachans anyday.
3 home wins in one  CL group  plus a very dodgy away defeat.
In another CL campaign, unfortunate against Lyon away.

After 4 seasons, Strachan does not yet have a settled team.
He is still buying players by the dozen

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchboy, you would also agree that the team was in need of major overhaul when WGS tookover, as evidenced by the throwing away of the league title in the dying minutes of the final game of the previous season, and WGS didn't inherit any players of the calibre of Larsson, Moravcik etc.

The real criticism is why the team wasn't bolstered immediately after the 2003 UEFA Cup Final

My contention remains that both O'Neill and Strachan have done admirable jobs at Celtic Park. But even the current issue of NTV questions the style of football played by O'Neill post Henrik.

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u
big problem was the amount of inj , and MON was guilty of being too loyal to the old guard and not giving some of the younger lads a run when needed. He made a mistake - but that didnt happen often !

buying quality players over a rake of mediocre players I think is the way to go, they all cost much the same
a couple of top notch players helping you progress inthe CL and their wages wouldnt cost that much more than a heap of shaun maloneys that will do fcuk all for the team (apart from the reserves)

He turned out to be a world beater, didn't he? A handful of promising appearances doesn't make for a great player. (remember Jamie Smith??) I'm a big fan of MON and what he achieved at CP, but Strach's record betters him. He took over an ageing squad and turned it into a championship winning side. He took the Hoops into the latter stages of European competition, where MON couldn't manage it, despite his big money signings. Give the wee man a break.

He was a world beater - how miller played on those few occasions was more than enough to prove to 50,000 season ticket holders and fans that he was the real deal.
he messed up himself by going to man u and not getting a game for two years - kind of fecks up any kind of continuity and momentum !

do you think that gs would have done what he has if he took the job BEFORE MON?
think the universal answer is a resounding NO.
Do you watch celtic at all ?

jamie smith was never a decent player under mon - hes a striker for starters and was only a winger/makeshift full back under mon. Aberdeen is his level. Nice lad though

been giving gs a break for a few years now. MON's wife made sure his focus wasnt on CP in his last season - maybe more.

gs or MON - no comparison

[Myles Na G.]

Lynchboy, you would also agree that the team was in need of major overhaul when WGS tookover, as evidenced by the throwing away of the league title in the dying minutes of the final game of the previous season, and WGS didn't inherit any players of the calibre of Larsson, Moravcik etc.

The real criticism is why the team wasn't bolstered immediately after the 2003 UEFA Cup Final

My contention remains that both O'Neill and Strachan have done admirable jobs at Celtic Park. But even the current issue of NTV questions the style of football played by O'Neill post Henrik.

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u
big problem was the amount of inj , and MON was guilty of being too loyal to the old guard and not giving some of the younger lads a run when needed. He made a mistake - but that didnt happen often !

buying quality players over a rake of mediocre players I think is the way to go, they all cost much the same
a couple of top notch players helping you progress inthe CL and their wages wouldnt cost that much more than a heap of shaun maloneys that will do fcuk all for the team (apart from the reserves)

He turned out to be a world beater, didn't he? A handful of promising appearances doesn't make for a great player. (remember Jamie Smith??) I'm a big fan of MON and what he achieved at CP, but Strach's record betters him. He took over an ageing squad and turned it into a championship winning side. He took the Hoops into the latter stages of European competition, where MON couldn't manage it, despite his big money signings. Give the wee man a break.

He was a world beater - how miller played on those few occasions was more than enough to prove to 50,000 season ticket holders and fans that he was the real deal.
he messed up himself by going to man u and not getting a game for two years - kind of fecks up any kind of continuity and momentum !

do you think that gs would have done what he has if he took the job BEFORE MON?
think the universal answer is a resounding NO.
Do you watch celtic at all ?

jamie smith was never a decent player under mon - hes a striker for starters and was only a winger/makeshift full back under mon. Aberdeen is his level. Nice lad though

been giving gs a break for a few years now. MON's wife made sure his focus wasnt on CP in his last season - maybe more.

gs or MON - no comparison

Yeah, Miller was genuine quality. Fergie was wrong. No judge of a player that man. He'll never make a decent manager. 

[Tommy Tight Lips]

aye would have to agree myles.what was ferguson thinking not picking liam miller?cant believe hes lasted over 20 years at old trafford!think he had a stint at leeds and then to sunderland,didnt get much game time when moved up to premiership,has never got regular games at international level.wheres he now?loan to QPR or somewhere?a star in the making at 27/28 years of age?

[Hound]

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u
He was a world beater - how miller played on those few occasions was more than enough to prove to 50,000 season ticket holders and fans that he was the real deal.
he messed up himself by going to man u and not getting a game for two years - kind of fecks up any kind of continuity and momentum !

Whatever about how good he is or isn't, it was totally Celtic's own fault for letting him go. They didnt offer him a contract until it was far too late. You can't blame a lad for leaving when the club are dragging their heels so much about offering him a new deal.

[Main Street]

Miller had promise, enough to have Ferguson offer him a very handsome contract. He didn't come good.
He was not the first player not to progress from evident early promise.

Ireland have quite a few (midget) midfielders who, for various reasons, have not made it in the top flight.

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchboy, you would also agree that the team was in need of major overhaul when WGS tookover, as evidenced by the throwing away of the league title in the dying minutes of the final game of the previous season, and WGS didn't inherit any players of the calibre of Larsson, Moravcik etc.

The real criticism is why the team wasn't bolstered immediately after the 2003 UEFA Cup Final

My contention remains that both O'Neill and Strachan have done admirable jobs at Celtic Park. But even the current issue of NTV questions the style of football played by O'Neill post Henrik.

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u
big problem was the amount of inj , and MON was guilty of being too loyal to the old guard and not giving some of the younger lads a run when needed. He made a mistake - but that didnt happen often !

buying quality players over a rake of mediocre players I think is the way to go, they all cost much the same
a couple of top notch players helping you progress inthe CL and their wages wouldnt cost that much more than a heap of shaun maloneys that will do fcuk all for the team (apart from the reserves)

He turned out to be a world beater, didn't he? A handful of promising appearances doesn't make for a great player. (remember Jamie Smith??) I'm a big fan of MON and what he achieved at CP, but Strach's record betters him. He took over an ageing squad and turned it into a championship winning side. He took the Hoops into the latter stages of European competition, where MON couldn't manage it, despite his big money signings. Give the wee man a break.

He was a world beater - how miller played on those few occasions was more than enough to prove to 50,000 season ticket holders and fans that he was the real deal.
he messed up himself by going to man u and not getting a game for two years - kind of fecks up any kind of continuity and momentum !

do you think that gs would have done what he has if he took the job BEFORE MON?
think the universal answer is a resounding NO.
Do you watch celtic at all ?

jamie smith was never a decent player under mon - hes a striker for starters and was only a winger/makeshift full back under mon. Aberdeen is his level. Nice lad though

been giving gs a break for a few years now. MON's wife made sure his focus wasnt on CP in his last season - maybe more.

gs or MON - no comparison

Yeah, Miller was genuine quality. Fergie was wrong. No judge of a player that man. He'll never make a decent manager. 

?? ?
surely what you have just said backs up my point that miller was a potentially great player, good enough for man u to want,yet only for fergie to squander by not picking him
plenty of others have had similar experiences - that juan sebastian veron was a donkey wasnt he 

[lynchbhoy]

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u
He was a world beater - how miller played on those few occasions was more than enough to prove to 50,000 season ticket holders and fans that he was the real deal.
he messed up himself by going to man u and not getting a game for two years - kind of fecks up any kind of continuity and momentum !

Whatever about how good he is or isn't, it was totally Celtic's own fault for letting him go. They didnt offer him a contract until it was far too late. You can't blame a lad for leaving when the club are dragging their heels so much about offering him a new deal.

doesnt matter when Celtic were making contract offers (they were using the same process for miller as all the players )
man u had tapped Miller up when a verbal agreement had more or less been already agreed with Celtic on millers contract renewal.
He then went back looking for a better deal as he knew what man u were offering, then he left
tapped up is the phrase. Celtic were not responsible for this. MON wasnt going to be held to ransom by anyone!

[Main Street]

Didn't Celtic offer him big contract,  £1m p/a or something like that.

Hard to know how Miller's career would have panned out in Paradise. Considering Petrov's injury time at least he would have got a good bit of first team football at a decent level in that next season, much more likely he would have turned out a better footballer.

[Hound]

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u
He was a world beater - how miller played on those few occasions was more than enough to prove to 50,000 season ticket holders and fans that he was the real deal.
he messed up himself by going to man u and not getting a game for two years - kind of fecks up any kind of continuity and momentum !

Whatever about how good he is or isn't, it was totally Celtic's own fault for letting him go. They didnt offer him a contract until it was far too late. You can't blame a lad for leaving when the club are dragging their heels so much about offering him a new deal.

doesnt matter when Celtic were making contract offers (they were using the same process for miller as all the players )
man u had tapped Miller up when a verbal agreement had more or less been already agreed with Celtic on millers contract renewal.
He then went back looking for a better deal as he knew what man u were offering, then he left
tapped up is the phrase. Celtic were not responsible for this. MON wasnt going to be held to ransom by anyone!

If that was the truth then I'd totally agree with you.

Celtic always refuse to negotiate and extend contracts until there is around 6 months to run?
I have no idea of the answer to that one, but any club who doesnt offer any player a new contract when there is less than 9 months to go on their contract, and who want to keep the player, is a very badly run club - and I can't believe Celtic are that badly run. Any well run club will start preliminary negotiations with players they want to keep when there's 18 months remaining, in the hope of concluding the deal when there's about 12 months left (assuming they want to keep the player of course)

If any club allows a players contract to get to less than 9 months, then frankly I would expect most players to wait a couple more months to get to the 6 month stage and see what else is on offer.

There was no verbal agreement with Miller when ManU came calling. Miller had been actively looking for a new contract for months and there was no offer on the table until after United started sniffing.

I really don't see how anyone could blame Miller for the choice he made in those circumstances.

[lynchbhoy]

lost it in midfield mostly that year, and the successor was groomed and ready, but the little rat fecked off to man u
He was a world beater - how miller played on those few occasions was more than enough to prove to 50,000 season ticket holders and fans that he was the real deal.
he messed up himself by going to man u and not getting a game for two years - kind of fecks up any kind of continuity and momentum !

Whatever about how good he is or isn't, it was totally Celtic's own fault for letting him go. They didnt offer him a contract until it was far too late. You can't blame a lad for leaving when the club are dragging their heels so much about offering him a new deal.

doesnt matter when Celtic were making contract offers (they were using the same process for miller as all the players )
man u had tapped Miller up when a verbal agreement had more or less been already agreed with Celtic on millers contract renewal.
He then went back looking for a better deal as he knew what man u were offering, then he left
tapped up is the phrase. Celtic were not responsible for this. MON wasnt going to be held to ransom by anyone!

If that was the truth then I'd totally agree with you.

Celtic always refuse to negotiate and extend contracts until there is around 6 months to run?
I have no idea of the answer to that one, but any club who doesnt offer any player a new contract when there is less than 9 months to go on their contract, and who want to keep the player, is a very badly run club - and I can't believe Celtic are that badly run. Any well run club will start preliminary negotiations with players they want to keep when there's 18 months remaining, in the hope of concluding the deal when there's about 12 months left (assuming they want to keep the player of course)

If any club allows a players contract to get to less than 9 months, then frankly I would expect most players to wait a couple more months to get to the 6 month stage and see what else is on offer.

There was no verbal agreement with Miller when ManU came calling. Miller had been actively looking for a new contract for months and there was no offer on the table until after United started sniffing.

I really don't see how anyone could blame Miller for the choice he made in those circumstances.

no offense hound, but thats a bit ridiculous to comment on how a club conducts its contractual business?
If it works for all other players (trying to think of another Celtic player who left for the same reasons but cant) then how can it be an issue here.
Miller was told that he would be getting a contract renewal.
Also he was well looked after as he had a string of injuries that kept him out of football for most of his prev three years at Celtic, plus then he was sent on loan to aalborg to get first team exp (got inj there too I think) so with a guarantee of a contract renewal and his footballing career safe, garnered with the loyalty and patience Celtic showed the lad - I dont think you have much of a leg to stand on saying that Celtic did anyting out of the ordinary in how they were conducting their business contractswise.
the tapping up and word in ear from roy kean at Ireland training sessions plus the money involved turned millers head.

this is now obv seen as having been ultimately detrimental to his footballing career and is the price of greed on his and man u's part !
(esp as Celtic offer was more than what man u paid him).
Only going on what was witnessed on his brief 6 months in the sun at Celtic, but he had it all. Keane was remarked at saying that his toughest opponent was usually liam miller at Irish training camps (when the Irish senior side would take on the u21's).
Keane and fergie tapped up miller. He would have been a great player judging on what he had already achieved at CP in the CL and domestic spl games.Saw him quite a lot that year and I am convinced he would have been another Irish great.
The price of greed indeed!