Stephen Kenny sacked

Lamh Dhearg Alba · December 04, 2007, 04:45:29 PM

That didnt last too long...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dunfermline_athletic/7127417.stm

lynchbhoy · December 04, 2007, 04:56:07 PM

living on borrowed time for yonks now LDA !
no real surprise

Leo · December 04, 2007, 05:08:45 PM

A good time to reflect on the appalingly bad record of Irish managers in GB. Apart from Martin O'Neill, and to a much lesser extent Mick Mc Carthy and the unproven Roy Keane, there isn't a current Irish manager of any substance in any dicision. It has laways been thus.
In the past maybe Noel Cantwell & Frank O'Farrell had some kind of track record. David O'Leary was a cash-rich bumbler who nobody wants today while even Liam Brady and Johnny Giles didnt sparkle. Why is this?

Lamh Dhearg Alba · December 04, 2007, 05:13:47 PM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 04, 2007, 04:56:07 PM
living on borrowed time for yonks now LDA !
no real surprise

True, he had by far the biggest budget in Division 1 yet the results in late October/early November in particular (beaten 0-5 and 0-4 at home by Hamilton and Livi and 0-3 at Stirling) were appalling. Feel a bit sorry for the guy really, he was on TV after the Livi game and looked terrible. Hard to see him getting another shot at management in Scotland (or England) now.

deiseach · December 04, 2007, 05:26:43 PM

Irish managers are about as successful as Irish players, i.e. not very. From my casual research, Tony Dunne, George Best, Martin O'Neill, Ronnie Whelan, Roy Keane and Denis Irwin are the only Irish born-and-reared players to have won the European Cup. Prior to Jack Charlton we had never qualified for a major tournament and, despite wistful references to John Atyeo, never really looked like doing it before then. I realise this isn't very scientific, but we have had few truly great soccer players so it shouldn't be surprising there are so few great managers

Evil Genius · December 04, 2007, 05:52:30 PM

Quote from: deiseach on December 04, 2007, 05:26:43 PM
Irish managers are about as successful as Irish players, i.e. not very. From my casual research, Tony Dunne, George Best, Martin O'Neill, Ronnie Whelan, Roy Keane and Denis Irwin are the only Irish born-and-reared players to have won the European Cup. Prior to Jack Charlton we had never qualified for a major tournament and, despite wistful references to John Atyeo, never really looked like doing it before then. I realise this isn't very scientific, but we have had few truly great soccer players so it shouldn't be surprising there are so few great managers

Some rather mixed-up thinking, there. If you're going to include O'Neill and Best in your list of Irish EC winners, then you cannot claim that "we" had never qualified for a major tournament before Big Jack: NI in 1958, 1982 and 1986, under an Irish born-and-bred manager in Billy Bingham,(also reasonably successful in England), must also count.

And your correlation between great players and great managers hardly stacks up, either, since none of the current top four managers in England (Wenger, Ferguson, Benitez and Grant/Mourinho) was any great shakes as a player. Indeed, England produces considerably more great players than Scotland does these days, yet Scottish managers are successful in England to a disproportionate degree.

stiffler · December 04, 2007, 05:55:24 PM

Quote from: deiseach on December 04, 2007, 05:26:43 PM
Irish managers are about as successful as Irish players, i.e. not very. From my casual research, Tony Dunne, George Best, Martin O'Neill, Ronnie Whelan, Roy Keane and Denis Irwin are the only Irish born-and-reared players to have won the European Cup. Prior to Jack Charlton we had never qualified for a major tournament and, despite wistful references to John Atyeo, never really looked like doing it before then. I realise this isn't very scientific, but we have had few truly great soccer players so it shouldn't be surprising there are so few great managers

Roy Keane didn't actually win the European cup as he was suspended for the final and refused his medal as he felt he did not earn it.

Evil Genius · December 04, 2007, 05:56:55 PM

Quote from: Leo on December 04, 2007, 05:08:45 PM
A good time to reflect on the appalingly bad record of Irish managers in GB. Apart from Martin O'Neill, and to a much lesser extent Mick Mc Carthy and the unproven Roy Keane, there isn't a current Irish manager of any substance in any dicision. It has laways been thus.
In the past maybe Noel Cantwell & Frank O'Farrell had some kind of track record. David O'Leary was a cash-rich bumbler who nobody wants today while even Liam Brady and Johnny Giles didnt sparkle. Why is this?

You're overlooking Iain Dowie, Lawrie Sanchez and Danny Wilson, and Nigel Worthington could be back in League football soon enough. And even poor old Sammy McIlroy could claim modest success in getting Morecambe into the League.

P.S. How could I have forgotten NI's very own Jim Magilton, currently doing a fine job at Ipswich?

magickingdom · December 04, 2007, 06:14:20 PM

well said eg... sorry to see kenny going as i think hes a good manager, having said that you cant survive those results.

deiseach · December 04, 2007, 07:09:54 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on October 17, 1973, 05:11:15 AMSome rather mixed-up thinking, there. If you're going to include O'Neill and Best in your list of Irish EC winners, then you cannot claim that "we" had never qualified for a major tournament before Big Jack: NI in 1958, 1982 and 1986, under an Irish born-and-bred manager in Billy Bingham,(also reasonably successful in England), must also count.

Fair enough about the 'mixed up' accusation. I should have left out the NI players for the purposes of demonstrating the general trend of rubbishness of soccer in the Republic, but in the context of the research I put in the NI players. D'oh.

Quote from: Evil Genius on October 17, 1973, 05:11:15 AMAnd your correlation between great players and great managers hardly stacks up, either, since none of the current top four managers in England (Wenger, Ferguson, Benitez and Grant/Mourinho) was any great shakes as a player. Indeed, England produces considerably more great players than Scotland does these days, yet Scottish managers are successful in England to a disproportionate degree.

It's not that great players equals great managers. Unless you believe that there is something intrinsically better about certain areas when it comes to producing managers - something expanded upon by Hugh McIlvanney in his breathtakingly tedious study of Busby, Shankly and Stein a number of years back - then the amount of top managers and top players who emerge will be a function of those who play the game at all levels. The sooner Irish people - all Irish people - stop thinking there is some 'pride in the jersey' dynamic that elevates them above the average sportsman elsewhere, the better

Lamh Dhearg Alba · December 04, 2007, 08:51:02 PM

Quote from: AFS on December 04, 2007, 07:54:25 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on December 04, 2007, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 04, 2007, 04:56:07 PM
living on borrowed time for yonks now LDA !
no real surprise

True, he had by far the biggest budget in Division 1 yet the results in late October/early November in particular (beaten 0-5 and 0-4 at home by Hamilton and Livi and 0-3 at Stirling) were appalling. Feel a bit sorry for the guy really, he was on TV after the Livi game and looked terrible. Hard to see him getting another shot at management in Scotland (or England) now.

I'm not so sure that is true about the financial situation. From talking to people who know a bit about the Scottish league i gathered that Dunfirmline were in a terrible state. Apparently previous managers had spent fortunes getting shit players in on big money deals and had amassed a ridiculous number of players, something like 35 in the first team squad. The club then couldn't afford to get rid of them or get anyone else in. Stephen Kenny is probably lucky to get out of there.

There is absolutely no question about it, Dunfermline's budget is by a considerable distance the highest in the Scottish First Division. The likes of Crawford, Burchill, Young, Shields, Bamba, Hamilton, Glass, Simmons and McIntyre are on a different level of contract to players with other Division 1 clubs. Yes Dunfermline are not in a great state financially but they are still paying way more than any other club in that league (and more than at least one club in the SPL). Thats a fact.
Nor can the failure of the team be laid entirely at the door of previous managers because Kenny either signed or gave new contracts to a number of players in that squad, simply not true to say he couldnt afford to get anybody else in. With the quality of player he inherited and the budget at his disposal they should have been walking that league.

imtommygunn · December 04, 2007, 09:15:52 PM

Always thought it would be incredibly tough for him.

I know in any profession you need to be able to adapt but when he went over he wouldn't have known any of his players, any of the opposition players, the standard of football at the level he was at, the full time professional game, probably any of his staff etc etc. It was a real baptism of fire for him. I think for someone to be successful with so many variables they need to be bedded in - i.e. start from bottom up like being a coach / assistant.

Still fair play to him for giving it a go. Better to have tried and failed than not to try at all. I would imagine with some time out he will come back to being a successful LOI manager again.

Leo · December 05, 2007, 01:19:38 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on December 04, 2007, 05:56:55 PM

You're overlooking Iain Dowie, Lawrie Sanchez and Danny Wilson, and Nigel Worthington could be back in League football soon enough. And even poor old Sammy McIlroy could claim modest success in getting Morecambe into the League.

P.S. How could I have forgotten NI's very own Jim Magilton, currently doing a fine job at Ipswich?

Dowie, McIlroy & Wilson have had more sackings than Santa Clause and all mostly operated at lower levels. Worthington got the boot from Norwich, Magilton looks like he might have something going at Portman Road but away record is dismal.

marty88 · December 08, 2007, 02:27:56 AM

serves the **** right.

Walked out on us when we needed him most. Its his family i feel sorry for.

anyway, top manager, he'll still make it in the big time.

ExiledGael · December 11, 2007, 11:05:20 PM

The path is clear!

Derry City website statement after tonight's meeting :

The Board of Derry City FC have released John Roberston from his contract with the club with immediate effect.
Unfortunately Mr Roberston, in the view of the Board, has not been and will not be able to fulfill the terms of his contract and the club are now actively seeking a new manager.