Mayo v Galway 26.6.11

[Lar Naparka]

Is Horan trusting and relying on the older players to save the day against Galway rather than perusing his original idea of a new fresh young team with his own stamp? Are we too a year too early in expecting that as it looks like the much of the new additions are down the pecking order?

I would be concerned if the likes of Seamus O Shea, Vaughan, Trevor Mort, Geraghty, Howley and the likes walk onto the team without a minutes NFL game time but maybe I am being overly analytic, worried and harsh here.

Lots to ponder though.

Lots to ponder about alright but no need to panic -not yet at any rate.
We seem to have a long list of injuries but Galway have their own problems in that regard and won't be able to field a first choice fifteen either.  Neither side is likely to have a settled look about it on Sunday next.
What does concern me a bit is the fact that all those we regard as marquee players have been around for quite a long time-since John Maughan's   last stint at the helm in fact. We've been looking to Alan and Andy and the other seasoned   'vets'   for  many years and it seems we are having to do the same this time around. If Ronan and Conoreen were fit, they would also be shoo-ins. There are lots of good-ish younger players about but they are more of the sheep rather than the shepherd variety.
Mind you, other counties have had the same problem with good minor and U21 lads finding it hard to come up to speed at senior level. The Rossies seem to be getting a good return this year but it's taken them a long time to get the best out of Shine and the others who won All Irelands at U21. I'm still reasonably upbeat about the coming game- even if it's the only the league form I'm going by.
It's a case of Mayo having problems but Galway having bigger ones. Galway are going to need one hell of an input from their U21s if they are to win and, going by the experience of Mayo and Roscommon with their U21s, I don't think they can do it.
It could will go down to the wire.

We didn't win U21 All Ireland but if we didn't have that 5mins of madness in Breffni park last year the likes of Shine.Garvey,Carty,Higgins & others might have added a U21 title to the minor one won in 2006.

Main reason why it's taken time for Shine & others to produce at senior level would be age e.g Shine was only 19 when he made his debut at senior level.

Mayo won under 21 in 2006 so alot of those players are 24,25,26 now.. O'Shea the youngest i think? so these guys should be showing better at senior level.

I beg your pardon; I I was thinking of the pressure from Rossie fans on the young players to start living up to their potential when I turned the minors' win into an U21 title. 
I made the slip up because I was mentally comparing the Ross situation with our own- good young lads with underage AIs failing to make satisfactory progress in the senior ranks. Now, unless I am mistaken one more time, your U21s last year couldn't have many of the 2006 minors in action.  Was Shine the only one?
Either that or you had an exceptionally young minor side in '06.
It seems every county in the west is finding it hard to turn outstanding players at underage level into half decent ones in the senior game.  But I think a good number of young Rossie players are starting to bed in to the side- if you follow me.
Fergie seems to be the only manager west of the Shannon who has an idea of his first fifteen and I don't think even here that the mix is just right yet.  It may well take another year to discover the potential of the present Ross side.
Roscommon has no reason to fear either Galway or Mayo in the Connacht final and O'Donnell has a good lead- in to that game. 

Yes you did make a slip up. 7 of the 2006 minor panel was part of the U21 team last year but i think Shine is the only one known to you? & years before that, pressure from our fans? all i know is...we were very competitive & somewhat unlucky v your guys.

There is a myth going about that we have the most settled team in Connacht at the moment not so sure about that? we made 7 changes from the team last year & finally our 06 minor players (currently 7 on the starting 15 senior team) certainly won't fear Mayo/Galway because they have came up through the ranks beating both! but i'm using minors as a yardstick that's just ridiculous.

I know at least four Roscommon men here in Dublin and from them, plus Rossie posters here, I get my impressions on your football scene. I also keep a reasonably close watch on what happens on the senior intercounty scene but nothing compared to the heads I know. Up to about a year ago, it's fair to say that O'Donnell was in the doghouse- couldn't wipe his nose, never mind manage a football team etc, etc.  The younger players were getting the same sort of criticism also. Mind you, the more established lads got more than their fair share of dogs' abuse as well.
Shine was by no means the only minor of 2006 to be criticised but I felt that far too much was being expected of him in particular. I do know that there are now a good few from the 2006 minors on the senior side now but it has taken 5 years to get them this far. My point in my last post being that it seems to take a long time to get underage players up to senior standard in every Connacht county.
Now, if seven of the 2006 minors were playing U21 last year they must have been 17 or under when they won that title and that would mean they had to be an exceptionally gifted side. To play U21 in 2010, a player could have been no more than 17 in '06. It has taken quite a long time to get a boost at senior level from the lads of 23006 but given that the side had to be young and that your neighbours in Galway an Mayo both find it a slow and frustrating process also, why are so many Rossie supporters downplaying their chances so much?
Sligo is the only Connacht county with a more settled side than Roscommon and they are out of the running. Galway have gone through years of internal squabbling and their present manager is both a blow-in and is new to the job. Mayo are re-building after the debacle of the O'Mahony years and the present poor devil is chopping and changing all over the place.
IMO, all of the three still in contention for the Connacht title could do with another year of development to make discover their true potential but Ross seem to have more going for them at the moment than Galway or Mayo. If ye don't put it together this year the chance might not be there next year - or the year after. I think Mayo's biggest problem this year is the matter of injuries to key players and  the same indeed could cause Galway's downfall; Too many key players out of action and not enough adequate replacements.
I'm still backing Mayo but I'm afraid that it will be down to luck rather than past form if we do win out.

[Lar Naparka]

And one guy, Trevor Mortimer, in terms, saved Mayo football - he had such an impact against London.

Abbeysider, a stór, it might be no harm if you took a long walk in the fresh air if this damned rain ever stops. The pressure is building up and affecting your judgement. Trevor Mortimer and Cúchulainn are not one in the same, with due respect to both.

As usual, Iolar, I'm in full agreement with you.
Mind you; I was a biteen jealous when I read Abbey's fine post rant.
I know I do let fly from time to time but I admit I'd be hard put to match that one.

[AbbeySider]

A lot of people seem inclined to scrap everything that they saw at games with their own eyes in favour of a game that they listened to on the radio. I don't mean you in particular Abbeysider, as you're clearly a man who plays close attention to football, but there's been a general trend here in recent weeks. Word gets back from London that such a player was rotten and another played like God and it seems to have won sway over the first hand evidence of this season and of other seasons. And I'm not at all sure that the opinions of radio commentators are as worthwhile as what you see with your own eyes.

I remain very, very worried about this game on Sunday. I really hope I'm wrong.

Regarding the sway, I think thats down to performance at training of late as well as the injuries piling up that have bound our hands a little regarding selection. I do think Trevor Mortimer has shown enough of the appetite, desire and form both in London and since to merit inclusion the next day and thats down to how he is playing right now.

There are other Mayo players didnt exactly shine in London, but I think that game shouldn't and is not being used to measure players and pin poor performances on them as Id say any manager would have used 12 subs if they could that day. It was just a crazy, crazy game.

On the commentary, sometimes Mid West can be overly positive and may not be telling it exactly how it is. Its often remarked that sometimes it feels like your at a different game than the one you are watching if you have Mid West in your ear. Is it the lesser of the two evils to be positive rather than be cutting? I suppose its all about finding a balance.

I used to crack up at Billy Fitz when the time came to pick the man of the match. He would go through the whole team and describe how great everyone did and then probably pick the current Mayo captain, even if they had a howler.

As for local papers, they also have a bit of a recipe to tell a story of a game and talk up the losing team even if they were beaten out the gate.

I just find it amusing any more and I suppose after hearing some of the Roscommon radio (I think) commentary of the Roscommon Vs Leitrim game when I was up the country I was well glad when I could tune into Mid West. D'unbelievables were never in it.

[Chimley]

With regard to Trevor, I have been mildly critical of him in the past and probably will be again, but the fact remains that he was the man who kicked the score to get us within one point when all around him were floundering under the pressure. For that alone he has proven his recall to be worthwhile if he never got his hands on another ball this summer.

[moysider]

Here s the latest from the Mayo News.




Horan to ring the changes


Mayo set to mix things up for visit of Galway

Mike Finnerty

THE Mayo team to face Galway in next Sunday's Connacht SFC semi-final is due to be announced after training tonight (Tuesday) with James Horan set to make as many as six changes from the side that beat London last month.
Fit-again Keith Higgins, Trevor Mortimer, Aidan O'Shea and Kevin McLoughlin are all in line for a return to the starting fifteen with Seamus O'Shea and Cillian O'Connor also believed to be in contention for places.
Speaking to The Mayo News last night, the Mayo manager confirmed that Trevor Howley is his 'main injury worry' this week.
The versatile Knockmore player injured his knee in a club game nine days ago and will be receiving treatment up until Sunday.
Howley took no part in Mayo's A v B trial match last Sunday morning in Castlebar but Ronan McGarrity did play, and came through his first game in eleven weeks unscathed.
"There are a lot of difficult decisions to be made in terms of picking the team," explained James Horan. "There's a lot of competition for places. We've got more players to choose from than at any other stage during the year."
He added that Ger Cafferkey will 'be considered' for selection despite being out of action for almost two months with a hamstring problem.
When assessing next Sunday's opponents, Horan said: "Galway played Cork last week, and in their last three league games against Armagh, Cork and Dublin they were very competitive. They're a good, balanced, skilful team that can do damage."
And he had this to say on what Mayo supporters can expect from their team next Sunday.
"The minimum expectation that people rightfully should have is that the team would go out and work for the cause, and for the team. If we're good enough, we're good enough."
Meanwhile, a crowd of approximately 20,000 is expected to be in McHale Park next weekend.


The thing that stands out there for me is McGarrity taking part. Wow. That might settle Iolar's nerves a biteen.

[moysider]

Is Horan trusting and relying on the older players to save the day against Galway rather than perusing his original idea of a new fresh young team with his own stamp? Are we too a year too early in expecting that as it looks like the much of the new additions are down the pecking order?

I would be concerned if the likes of Seamus O Shea, Vaughan, Trevor Mort, Geraghty, Howley and the likes walk onto the team without a minutes NFL game time but maybe I am being overly analytic, worried and harsh here.

Lots to ponder though.

Lots to ponder about alright but no need to panic -not yet at any rate.
We seem to have a long list of injuries but Galway have their own problems in that regard and won't be able to field a first choice fifteen either.  Neither side is likely to have a settled look about it on Sunday next.
What does concern me a bit is the fact that all those we regard as marquee players have been around for quite a long time-since John Maughan's   last stint at the helm in fact. We've been looking to Alan and Andy and the other seasoned   'vets'   for  many years and it seems we are having to do the same this time around. If Ronan and Conoreen were fit, they would also be shoo-ins. There are lots of good-ish younger players about but they are more of the sheep rather than the shepherd variety.
Mind you, other counties have had the same problem with good minor and U21 lads finding it hard to come up to speed at senior level. The Rossies seem to be getting a good return this year but it's taken them a long time to get the best out of Shine and the others who won All Irelands at U21. I'm still reasonably upbeat about the coming game- even if it's the only the league form I'm going by.
It's a case of Mayo having problems but Galway having bigger ones. Galway are going to need one hell of an input from their U21s if they are to win and, going by the experience of Mayo and Roscommon with their U21s, I don't think they can do it.
It could will go down to the wire.

We didn't win U21 All Ireland but if we didn't have that 5mins of madness in Breffni park last year the likes of Shine.Garvey,Carty,Higgins & others might have added a U21 title to the minor one won in 2006.

Main reason why it's taken time for Shine & others to produce at senior level would be age e.g Shine was only 19 when he made his debut at senior level.

Mayo won under 21 in 2006 so alot of those players are 24,25,26 now.. O'Shea the youngest i think? so these guys should be showing better at senior level.

I beg your pardon; I I was thinking of the pressure from Rossie fans on the young players to start living up to their potential when I turned the minors' win into an U21 title. 
I made the slip up because I was mentally comparing the Ross situation with our own- good young lads with underage AIs failing to make satisfactory progress in the senior ranks. Now, unless I am mistaken one more time, your U21s last year couldn't have many of the 2006 minors in action.  Was Shine the only one?
Either that or you had an exceptionally young minor side in '06.
It seems every county in the west is finding it hard to turn outstanding players at underage level into half decent ones in the senior game.  But I think a good number of young Rossie players are starting to bed in to the side- if you follow me.
Fergie seems to be the only manager west of the Shannon who has an idea of his first fifteen and I don't think even here that the mix is just right yet.  It may well take another year to discover the potential of the present Ross side.
Roscommon has no reason to fear either Galway or Mayo in the Connacht final and O'Donnell has a good lead- in to that game. 

Yes you did make a slip up. 7 of the 2006 minor panel was part of the U21 team last year but i think Shine is the only one known to you? & years before that, pressure from our fans? all i know is...we were very competitive & somewhat unlucky v your guys.

There is a myth going about that we have the most settled team in Connacht at the moment not so sure about that? we made 7 changes from the team last year & finally our 06 minor players (currently 7 on the starting 15 senior team) certainly won't fear Mayo/Galway because they have came up through the ranks beating both! but i'm using minors as a yardstick that's just ridiculous.

I ll be there for the minor the next day but I wont be losing any sleep  if we lose. Too much has been made of good Mayo minor teams in the past, and how they don t make it at senior. In most players cases they were never going to make it as seniors. Too small, technically poor, lack of desire etc, etc, etc. If Ros can manage it with the 06 bunch more power to them though. Some have come along well so far. And due to circumstances in the county a lot of this team would have been thrown in at the deep as the old guard
were moved on.
Taking a glance back at our 08 team that coulda/shoulda/woulda won the minor we see that Hennelly and AOS have gone onto senior already. Of the rest it is hard to see any of them make an impression at senior level. I don t see Mickey Harte in any hurry to replace the older guys with the 08 minors. He ll be lucky to eventually find one as good as O Neill, McGuigan, Jordan, Dooher, Kavanagh, Mulligan, McGinnelly, McMahons etc, never mind a bunch of them.

As for our 06 U21s, quite a few have gone on to play senior. Keith Higgins has been the pick of them so far. SOS needs a run clear of injuries and Barry Moran has hardly been fit a day since. And there was never going to be any stars among the rest anyway.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Whenever I hear about fellas flying in training I think back to August and September 2004. And then I have to lie down in a dark room for a while.

My nerves remain shot Moysider, and there's no consoling me. I can only sit and wait.

[moysider]

Whenever I hear about fellas flying in training I think back to August and September 2004. And then I have to lie down in a dark room for a while.

My nerves remain shot Moysider, and there's no consoling me. I can only sit and wait.

Ah yeah. we re all in the same boat and when was it ever different. Never was I confident about these games which makes it all the more thrilling when we manage to win one. God knows how this will turn out. Noel Connelly makes the point his column that while we may still look to keeping PJ quiet it could be one or two of the unknowns that emerge as matchwinners for Galway the next day.

[ross4life]

My point in my last post being that it seems to take a long time to get underage players up to senior standard in every Connacht county.

Was more or less my point also, most young players need time to mature & won't reach their peak untill 26/27 so alot of the Mayo lads are still a few years away yet.

it’s fair to say that O’Donnell was in the doghouse- couldn’t wipe his nose, never mind manage a football team etc, etc.

Most Roscommon fans wanted O'Donnell to take over the U21s instead of taking over the sinking ship that was the senior set up but he accepted the challenge steadied the ship & hopefully the progress continues.

if seven of the 2006 minors were playing U21 last year they must have been 17 or under when they won that title and that would mean they had to be an exceptionally gifted side

Yes the likes of Shine,Higgins,Carty are only 22 now.

why are so many Rossie supporters downplaying their chances so much?

Because under previous managers we hit a iceberg head on & now under O'Donnell he somehow kept us afloat but unfortunately the waters are still shark infested.

I don t see Mickey Harte in any hurry to replace the older guys with the 08 minors. He ll be lucky to eventually find one as good as O Neill, McGuigan, Jordan, Dooher, Kavanagh, Mulligan, McGinnelly, McMahons etc, never mind a bunch of them.

Because alot of these guys have plenty of football left in them yet & those guys came for the 98/01 minor teams & weren't they under the management of Harte?

As for our 06 U21s, quite a few have gone on to play senior. Keith Higgins has been the pick of them so far.

Again most if not all Mayos U21 team from 2006 caught the eye at minor previously.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Something in me tells me we might win on Sunday but after seeing what happened in London I'm not able to say that with any confidence. It looks like the team will line out with a new midfield from London - the O'Shea brothers replacing Kilcullen and Gibbons; possibly scrapping the sweeper with Cillian O'Connor as an orthodox 13 for Howley, Trevor Mort in for Chrissy Barrett and a fit again Keith Higgins for Dermot Geraghty (would he be the one to lose out if he wasn't injured?). Kevin McLoughlin would look to be in good shape to replace Campbell but it leaves an issue over frees again. Will McLoughlin take them on the right? O'Connor? Aidan O'Shea? Paul Jordan?! I reckon if Campbell was confident at present with the frees he would start but I don't believe he is.

I think we'll do alright at midfield. If both of the O'Sheas play close to their best, we'll be on top at midfield. Trevor Mort' has the athleticism to put Bradshaw on the back foot and we have a half-forward line that should be looking to seriously dominate a weak Galway half-back line. Can Freeman and Doherty rediscover their form inside? Hopefully but Forde will give Freeman plenty of it. In our full-back line Keith Higgins will probably pick up Joyce, and hopefully do well. I think Alan Feeney is well able for Paul Conroy although I'd be less confident about Tom Cunniffe on Concannon.

The two key battles though for us are in our half-back line. Vaughan, to me, is not a centre-half back. Hehir looks like a real player. Hopefully he'll be overcome by nerves in his first senior start because if he brings his U-21 form into this game, Donal could struggle with him. Richie Feeney impressed during the League but Bane is a serious player on top form and he usually brings his A game to Mayo clashes. That battle could go either way. We have enough to do it, largely because of Galway's shortcomings but have we the self-belief after London with the residue still possibly there from Sligo and Longford? I hope we do have the belief. I hope . . .

[An Fhairche Abu]

Galway will be the last team into the 2011 championship when throw-in occurs in Castlebar and I hope that we do not experience too much rustiness as a result of the long layoff from the last competitive game, as bad as their performance in London was at least Mayo have got the 1st championship match out of the way. 

The standard in Connacht is pretty poor at the minute, although in fairness the Rossies are certainly looking like making decent strides towards heading back to being a force again. Chances are that a good team will await the winner of Connacht but seeing as I wouldn't put any Connacht team within the top 8 in the country a Q-final appearance would certainly be a big deal for Galway or Mayo this year if they made it there.

I see that while the London result has knocked a bit of the stuffing out of some of the more vociferous Mayo posters on here, others think that the London game should be viewed as merely an aberration in the James Horan plan for Mayo success, viewed more as a similar scenario to the 3 point victory over London in '96 which didn't impede the further process of Mayo that year to an All Ireland final appearance. Even Noel Connelly was classing the London match in this exact context in his column in this week's Mayo News, although his opinion that "there are a lot of similarities between us in '96 and this group" is one that I can't see myself at this point in time.

To be fair Horan didn't have his full deck of players to pick from in the London match but although Mayo have numerous starters to return to the first fifteen for the match on the 26th, I wouldn't be so quick as to chalk the London performance down as a once off. It's not a great sign when a team playing Division 1 football cannot beat London easily, even taking account of the 20 wides, a missed penalty and the crazy travel arrangements it was still a woeful performance by Mayo.
People wrote off the close shave with New York that Galway had last year as soon as the match was over due to complacency, their training schedule etc. but it was clear in the subsequent matches against Sligo and especially Wexford that the NY performance was no flash in the pan. Perhaps Mayo will not repeat this pattern in their matches after the London performance but I'm not so sure, certainly if they cannot raise the performance levels for Galway in Castlebar they may throw the hat at it but if Mayo were facing into a genuinely top outfit the next Sunday I'd fear for them if the opposition were able to get off to a fast start in the match.

Luckily for Mayo though they are not going to be facing the greatest Galway team to ever take a pitch, indeed it's a Galway team over who they have already recorded a comprehensive victory earlier this year. When you factor in the current paucity of talent (IMHO) on both teams, the unsettled team selections which makes lineout predictions for the match until announced (especially for Mayo) fraught with some guesswork, allied to the general 50/50 nature of the Galway/Mayo derby matches anyway, it makes this a very hard game to call. It would not be a major surprise to see this turn out a draw, equally it wouldn't be a shock either if one the teams imploded on the day and got a trimming.

The U-21 win has certainly brought a badly needed boost to the county prior to the championship but looking at the return from the 2002 and especially 2005 teams it is evident that although U-21 is a better indicator than Minor as to the ability of a player to make the transition to Senior there are still no guarantees with who is going to make the grade.
Indeed having seen Danny Cummins playing senior in 2010 and 2011 the question at times was asked as to whether he had the skills to complement his pace, too often he looked to run up blind alleys or take the wrong option under pressure. Contrast this to the U-21 final where he looked imperious in the forward line and had a Cavan fan beside me at the final enquiring about the number 13 who was "some player altogether" just after he kicked that absolute peach of a point in the 2nd half. The potential is quite obviously there but as with all the other eleven U-21's now in the panel it'll only be in 5+ years time that a call can be made as to whether this is another great crop of players in a similar vein to the 1994 minor AI finalists or not.

Following on from the U-21 victory there have also been calls from some for either Flynn or O'Curraoin to be put straight into the starting 15 in midfield. Both have another 2 years left at U-21 level and while I'm thrilled that both lads look to have serious potential to deliver in this vital sector in the future, I think that asking either of them to go up against the current top midfielders in the country is very premature, you'd be throwing young lads in against grown men who have years of experience, accumulated fitness and body strength.
Some people will say "if they're good enough, they're old enough" citing Aidan Walsh as an example from only last year but I doubt that either would be seriously considered for a starting berth by these people if Galway haven't had such ongoing chronic problems in the midfield sector since Kevin Walsh retired. I would say that neither player will start or take part on Sunday, especially as Flynn has been doing the Leaving Cert. The Bergin/Hanley midfield pairing will continue for the foreseeable as they have been the pairing since the tail end of the league and have been played in the challenge matches since, although I would say that reservations must be had concerning this pairing also, albeit for entirely differing reasons.

Armstrong isn't quite the loss that everyone is making out – it isn't PJ that we are talking about here. Don't get me wrong we'd have a better shot at winning the game if he was fit and playing well but Armstrong has had constant hamstring problems throughout his senior career and as a result of the constant injuries has only very occasionally shown flashes of his potential. He is about 27 years old now, tis past time for actually delivering on promise and potential, people talk of him as a match winner but off the top of my head I can't think of any important Galway game where he has been the best player on the pitch.

Nicky Joyce for all his faults is a bigger loss this year, when he was bothered he has put in some actual big game performances in the Galway jersey, he was one of the few Galway players to emerge with credit from our last championship encounter with Mayo, a county against who he always seemed to play well. If he has no interest in playing then he is right not to stick with it but we don't have an abundance of lads with his ability within the county at this moment in time.

The ongoing injury travails plaguing Meehan are of course an absolutely huge problem for Galway, his absence from the start of championship 2011 means we haven't seen him playing fit and well for Galway in about 2 years which is a terrible pity, he is one of the few genuine top class inter county players we have

Going by the recent challenge games the team is probably going to line out similar to this:

Flaherty,
Burke, Forde, Duane,
O'Donnell, Higgins, Sice,
Bergin, Hanley,
Concannon, Hehir, Bradshaw,
Joyce, Conroy, Bane

I won't depress any Galway supporters by posting a 15 that lined out for the county during the last big year we had in 2001 but if you take a look at the players of that era and match them up position by position to today it's abundantly clear why the standing of Galway has taken such a nosedive in the decade since. Looking at that lineout there are serious questions about the likely HB line, the Bergin/Hanley midfield is still untested in championship and it's asking a lot of Hehir to come straight in and make an impact at CHF when he has played a grand total of zero league games this year. Whether they make the grade or not only time will tell but at least there is a few championship debutants in the starting 15 this year, giving the team a slightly different look from last year, although it has to be said that nine of the players who started the loss against Wexford last year are playing again next Sunday if the lineout above is correct.

Roscommon looked fairly good on the as the other side of draw, I think they have definitely improved from last year and although Leitrim weren't great on the day they were still dispatched with ease and minimum fuss. The Rossies winning Connacht in 2010 was a shock result but this year, whether it's Galway or Mayo that make it through on Sunday, they will be underdogs in the Hyde against the home team barring an unexpectedly big performance from either team on Sunday that suddenly puts them ahead of where most observers would have them at present.

If Galway were going well I'd be very confident that we'd win in Castlebar because I don't rate this current Mayo team at all, unfortunately as it is Galway aren't going great and are as bad as Mayo (a good case can be made that they are worse) so it's hard to make a convincing argument for a Galway victory. Home advantage is certainly going to be worth a few points to Mayo and if the game is as tight as the past two championship clashes it could be the factor that swings it. Incredibly for a rivalry that is usually very even, Galway have lost 6 times in a row to Mayo now, with the last victory way back in July 2008, so if nothing else we're due a win I guess!!!

Also on a slightly different point to the match discussion, Galway were last out on April 10th, so there is an 11 week gap between competitive games for the footballers until they are the last team to enter the championship on June 26th. To put this in context Galway's entire 7 game league program was completed in 9 weeks. When you consider that the loser of the Connacht final, played two weeks after the Galway/Mayo semi-final, will have to play 6 days later in the final qualifier round and again the following week if they get to the Quarter-final this is scandalous, there are loads of free weekends with no games in the Connacht championship and still we are left with this farcical situation of a 6 day turnaround for the provincial losers.

[ross matt]

A lot of people seem inclined to scrap everything that they saw at games with their own eyes in favour of a game that they listened to on the radio. I don't mean you in particular Abbeysider, as you're clearly a man who plays close attention to football, but there's been a general trend here in recent weeks. Word gets back from London that such a player was rotten and another played like God and it seems to have won sway over the first hand evidence of this season and of other seasons. And I'm not at all sure that the opinions of radio commentators are as worthwhile as what you see with your own eyes.

I remain very, very worried about this game on Sunday. I really hope I'm wrong.

Regarding the sway, I think thats down to performance at training of late as well as the injuries piling up that have bound our hands a little regarding selection. I do think Trevor Mortimer has shown enough of the appetite, desire and form both in London and since to merit inclusion the next day and thats down to how he is playing right now.

There are other Mayo players didnt exactly shine in London, but I think that game shouldn't and is not being used to measure players and pin poor performances on them as Id say any manager would have used 12 subs if they could that day. It was just a crazy, crazy game.

On the commentary, sometimes Mid West can be overly positive and may not be telling it exactly how it is. Its often remarked that sometimes it feels like your at a different game than the one you are watching if you have Mid West in your ear. Is it the lesser of the two evils to be positive rather than be cutting? I suppose its all about finding a balance.

I used to crack up at Billy Fitz when the time came to pick the man of the match. He would go through the whole team and describe how great everyone did and then probably pick the current Mayo captain, even if they had a howler.

As for local papers, they also have a bit of a recipe to tell a story of a game and talk up the losing team even if they were beaten out the gate.

I just find it amusing any more and I suppose after hearing some of the Roscommon radio (I think) commentary of the Roscommon Vs Leitrim game when I was up the country I was well glad when I could tune into Mid West. D'unbelievables were never in it.

Shannonside? Willie Hegarty?
Fits the bill. A M O'M wannabe who falls well short of that standard though. Your D'unbelievables comparison is very apt.

[Tatler Jack]

Armstrong isn't quite the loss that everyone is making out – it isn't PJ that we are talking about here. Don't get me wrong we'd have a better shot at winning the game if he was fit and playing well but Armstrong has had constant hamstring problems throughout his senior career and as a result of the constant injuries has only very occasionally shown flashes of his potential. He is about 27 years old now,

Thought he was on the 2004 minor team that beat Ros in Connacht Final - think he scored 2 goals that day.

[An Fhairche Abu]

Just added 6 years on from the 05 U-21, he could well be 25/26, same point either way.

[ross matt]

Is Horan trusting and relying on the older players to save the day against Galway rather than perusing his original idea of a new fresh young team with his own stamp? Are we too a year too early in expecting that as it looks like the much of the new additions are down the pecking order?

I would be concerned if the likes of Seamus O Shea, Vaughan, Trevor Mort, Geraghty, Howley and the likes walk onto the team without a minutes NFL game time but maybe I am being overly analytic, worried and harsh here.

Lots to ponder though.

Lots to ponder about alright but no need to panic -not yet at any rate.
We seem to have a long list of injuries but Galway have their own problems in that regard and won't be able to field a first choice fifteen either.  Neither side is likely to have a settled look about it on Sunday next.
What does concern me a bit is the fact that all those we regard as marquee players have been around for quite a long time-since John Maughan's   last stint at the helm in fact. We've been looking to Alan and Andy and the other seasoned   'vets'   for  many years and it seems we are having to do the same this time around. If Ronan and Conoreen were fit, they would also be shoo-ins. There are lots of good-ish younger players about but they are more of the sheep rather than the shepherd variety.
Mind you, other counties have had the same problem with good minor and U21 lads finding it hard to come up to speed at senior level. The Rossies seem to be getting a good return this year but it's taken them a long time to get the best out of Shine and the others who won All Irelands at U21. I'm still reasonably upbeat about the coming game- even if it's the only the league form I'm going by.
It's a case of Mayo having problems but Galway having bigger ones. Galway are going to need one hell of an input from their U21s if they are to win and, going by the experience of Mayo and Roscommon with their U21s, I don't think they can do it.
It could will go down to the wire.

We didn't win U21 All Ireland but if we didn't have that 5mins of madness in Breffni park last year the likes of Shine.Garvey,Carty,Higgins & others might have added a U21 title to the minor one won in 2006.

Main reason why it's taken time for Shine & others to produce at senior level would be age e.g Shine was only 19 when he made his debut at senior level.

Mayo won under 21 in 2006 so alot of those players are 24,25,26 now.. O'Shea the youngest i think? so these guys should be showing better at senior level.

I beg your pardon; I I was thinking of the pressure from Rossie fans on the young players to start living up to their potential when I turned the minors' win into an U21 title. 
I made the slip up because I was mentally comparing the Ross situation with our own- good young lads with underage AIs failing to make satisfactory progress in the senior ranks. Now, unless I am mistaken one more time, your U21s last year couldn't have many of the 2006 minors in action.  Was Shine the only one?
Either that or you had an exceptionally young minor side in '06.
It seems every county in the west is finding it hard to turn outstanding players at underage level into half decent ones in the senior game.  But I think a good number of young Rossie players are starting to bed in to the side- if you follow me.
Fergie seems to be the only manager west of the Shannon who has an idea of his first fifteen and I don't think even here that the mix is just right yet.  It may well take another year to discover the potential of the present Ross side.
Roscommon has no reason to fear either Galway or Mayo in the Connacht final and O'Donnell has a good lead- in to that game. 

Yes you did make a slip up. 7 of the 2006 minor panel was part of the U21 team last year but i think Shine is the only one known to you? & years before that, pressure from our fans? all i know is...we were very competitive & somewhat unlucky v your guys.

There is a myth going about that we have the most settled team in Connacht at the moment not so sure about that? we made 7 changes from the team last year & finally our 06 minor players (currently 7 on the starting 15 senior team) certainly won't fear Mayo/Galway because they have came up through the ranks beating both! but i'm using minors as a yardstick that's just ridiculous.

I know at least four Roscommon men here in Dublin and from them, plus Rossie posters here, I get my impressions on your football scene. I also keep a reasonably close watch on what happens on the senior intercounty scene but nothing compared to the heads I know. Up to about a year ago, it's fair to say that O'Donnell was in the doghouse- couldn't wipe his nose, never mind manage a football team etc, etc.  The younger players were getting the same sort of criticism also. Mind you, the more established lads got more than their fair share of dogs' abuse as well.
Shine was by no means the only minor of 2006 to be criticised but I felt that far too much was being expected of him in particular. I do know that there are now a good few from the 2006 minors on the senior side now but it has taken 5 years to get them this far. My point in my last post being that it seems to take a long time to get underage players up to senior standard in every Connacht county.
Now, if seven of the 2006 minors were playing U21 last year they must have been 17 or under when they won that title and that would mean they had to be an exceptionally gifted side. To play U21 in 2010, a player could have been no more than 17 in '06. It has taken quite a long time to get a boost at senior level from the lads of 23006 but given that the side had to be young and that your neighbours in Galway an Mayo both find it a slow and frustrating process also, why are so many Rossie supporters downplaying their chances so much?
Sligo is the only Connacht county with a more settled side than Roscommon and they are out of the running. Galway have gone through years of internal squabbling and their present manager is both a blow-in and is new to the job. Mayo are re-building after the debacle of the O'Mahony years and the present poor devil is chopping and changing all over the place.
IMO, all of the three still in contention for the Connacht title could do with another year of development to make discover their true potential but Ross seem to have more going for them at the moment than Galway or Mayo. If ye don't put it together this year the chance might not be there next year - or the year after. I think Mayo's biggest problem this year is the matter of injuries to key players and  the same indeed could cause Galway's downfall; Too many key players out of action and not enough adequate replacements.
I'm still backing Mayo but I'm afraid that it will be down to luck rather than past form if we do win out.

I dont doubt that you're genuine in your analysis of the Rossie scene Lar but I'm surprised to hear any Rossies would have been that critical of Fergal. Most that I know had patience with him and the underage structure over the last number of years. The 07 minor side was better than the 06 and were very unlucky to lost to the AI champs Galway. In u-21 they pushed champions Mayo all the way for a few year before winning the 2010 title. So the players (whilst young) were there. O'Donnell by nature is patient and methodical believing in a longterm progress approach in terms of player development.

The reason most Rossies are cautious about this final is that they havent beaten either of the big two at senior level for some time. Its  a big mental obstacle. Also they have been on the recieving end of some bad drubbings, relegation to div 4 and not to mention the recent league final hammering by Longford in Croker. Added to this the fall out from 01/02/03 depleted confidence in and respect for the county team for quite some time. Maughan then set them back alot. There was the great side of the late 70s/early 80s. The 2 in a row side of 90/91 and not to mention the very unlucky side of 98. All of those were capable of beating the big two and of holding their own in Croker. Ross have never won the amount of titles Mayo & Galway have but they have had their periods of dominance and there is a very proud tradition of football in the county from Murray to O'Malley to Earley.

So I think the current management tenure has helped alot to restore that. I think they will continue to do so over the next few years so I dont think it will be a disaster if they lose the final so long as they are competitive and regroup enough to have a bit of a run in the qualifiers. Equally if they play at their best they can win it. Long time since that could be said.

Ross have been helped by getting the easier side of the draw in the last 2 years but they have improved and availed of the opportunities they've been given.  I think they will continue to improve over the next number of seasons.

To predict the result of this coming match has always been difficult. But more so this time as they both have been going so badly. I think mayo will come through. They cant be as bad as they looked v London plus the travel disaster before this match may have thrown them. They also had a fine league. Galway had a poor league but improved towards the end of it. However I think they will struggle badly without Armstrong and Meehan. If they had these two guys they would be my tip instead of Mayo.