Search for New Mayo Manager

[seafoid]

I am getting this mixed up with the Arlene Foster story. Basically Mayo have no renewable heat.

[Gael85]

Why were Mayo players so against H&C from start? Was it do with chairman appointing his brother as manager? Holmes/Connelly were in charge in 06 when Mayo won u21 All Ireland .Holmes himself won National League as manager in 2001 and guiding Castlebar to club final. Would they not have been good credentials for the job. Did the manner in which Castlebar lost to Vincents(not man marking Connolly) in club final put doubts in players minds that Holmes was not up to the job tactically?

[joemamas]

If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.

The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.

I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already.

That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.

Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.

Nah, I think he is watching the electoral college vote.

[Syferus]

There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.

Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.

Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?

There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it

Very briefly.....
McStay said he wanted the job on the Sunday Game.
McStay took a call on a Thursday to say he was out of the running.
McStay then asked on the following Monday by the same official who told him he was out of the running that he was required to attend an interview for a job he wasn't going to get.
CB later said that McStays "package" was too expensive....

What about when he said the players vetoed it because they were sore about McHale criticising them in the media?

In retrospective a common theme between both what H&C and McStay have said is the sensitive egos of key players on the Mayo team.

Why some want to place blame on the managers bad CB alone and not on the players too simply doesn't fit with what actually happened.

[Itchy]

Question 1:

So anyway - who was collecting the money and distributing it as he saw fit?

Hint he wasn't a member of the county board or management.

[weareros]

It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.

Continually questioning the selection of other players and lobbying for changes at a particular position are not usual man management decisions. It's strange that Mayo supporters are so unwilling to criticize the players involved because their actions were a poor reflection of themselves and a dis-service to their county.

The easy way out is to blame the two lads not involved now and ignore the players' transgressions and it's sad to see so many take that approach. Everyone else can see through it.

As opposed to our county where talented players opt-out of the panel because they see the less talented players picked ahead of them due to, take your pick: favouritism. Or what about the John Maughan years, players off the panel because they were over 28, or because a previous manager said they were troublemakers. There's often issues with managers (and managers of Mayo origin seem to be the worst offenders) and often times players have to speak up. Nothing wrong with it.

You seem to have went off on an non-sequitur there.

Not really. Outside attempts to influence managers is nothing new in the GAA. John Evans claimed he was ousted because he stood his ground on not picking the sons of certain influential figures in Roscommon GAA. In 1979, we threw away a chance of being in the All-Ireland final by changing up a forward line that should never have been changed up, and politics were at play. What's different here is that in the Mayo situation, ambitious footballers - according to rumour - tried to have influence. But it was very much in the noble interests of trying to land the big one, even if it backfired in the end. What happens in our county is just pure political stuff that's far worse. So I'd leave the Mayo boys be on this one. It's understandable the supporters back the players - it's not often you get a generation like this. The managers would have been better to let the sleeping dogs lie. But they have done Rochford a bit of a favour in that the players will surely be more focussed on their own game going forward and should they query who's starting will get the auld "are you still at that effin nonsense" look.

[muppet]

If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.

The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.

I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already.

That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.

Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.

Of course the reason Heffo knows this is because he is doing the same thing. 

[muppet]

There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.

Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.

Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?

There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it

Very briefly.....
McStay said he wanted the job on the Sunday Game.
McStay took a call on a Thursday to say he was out of the running.
McStay then asked on the following Monday by the same official who told him he was out of the running that he was required to attend an interview for a job he wasn't going to get.
CB later said that McStays "package" was too expensive....

When there was an outcry about it, the response was along gate lines of....mistakes were made, nothing to see here, we must move on.

As an aside, given the amount of pontificating in the media on the subject, can anyone (regardless of views on the matter) point to a single article written that you would say - yea good article?

[Jinxy]

If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.

The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.

I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already.

That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.

Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.

Of course the reason Heffo knows this is because he is doing the same thing. 

Heffo already has his All-Ireland medals though.

[muppet]

If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.

The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.

I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already.

That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.

Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.

Of course the reason Heffo knows this is because he is doing the same thing. 

Heffo already has his All-Ireland medals though.

In fairness he is a Geordie Shore All-Star.

[heffo]

If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.

The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.

I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already.

That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.

Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.

Of course the reason Heffo knows this is because he is doing the same thing. 

[Jinxy]

The media response seems to be pro-player in general.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html

Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.

[Lar Naparka]

There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.

Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.

Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?

There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it

Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.

Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.

It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.

I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit;  manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.

[muppet]

The article was very unbalanced. But what would you expect in the Indo?

For example.....two similar stories.

Holmes/Connelly believe that the change in the logistics operation discommoded a few players that were used to the cosy relationship to a degree where the pettiest of issues were seized upon.

Complaints were raised over the timing of a pre-match meal prior to a league game against Cork in Páirc Uí Rinn.

Mass had been arranged for those who wanted to attend. Since it was Palm Sunday, Mass took longer than usual, leading to the pre-match meal being put back by 15 minutes.

"One player made a big fuss of that, as if it was hugely important. It was just an excuse to complain about something, to have a dig at the logistics operation," says Connelly.

There was also the case of a league game in Derry. Holmes/Connelly explain that a few minutes were lost when the coach went through, rather than around, a town between Letterkenny and Derry but that it was irrelevant as, on arrival, they were delayed for a number of minutes before getting access to the dressing-room. Mayo won the game.


Notice how Breheny helpfully tells us that Mayo won the latter match. Thus implying that the result negates all the 'pettiest of issues' that bothered an unnamed number of players. But also notice that there is no mention of the result in the other match from Breheny. That game was lost to a last minute goal. How often do we hear it is a game of inches? No balance there from Breheny.

Now imagine showing up 15 minutes late for Jim Gavin, Jack O'Connor, Eamon Fitzmaurice, Joe Kernan and telling them that it was due to it being Palm Sunday. Or you took a wrong turn on the way. Imagine telling Big Joe not to get all upset about 'the pettiest of issues'.

[Buttofthehill]

The article was very unbalanced. But what would you expect in the Indo?

For example.....two similar stories.

Holmes/Connelly believe that the change in the logistics operation discommoded a few players that were used to the cosy relationship to a degree where the pettiest of issues were seized upon.

Complaints were raised over the timing of a pre-match meal prior to a league game against Cork in Páirc Uí Rinn.

Mass had been arranged for those who wanted to attend. Since it was Palm Sunday, Mass took longer than usual, leading to the pre-match meal being put back by 15 minutes.

"One player made a big fuss of that, as if it was hugely important. It was just an excuse to complain about something, to have a dig at the logistics operation," says Connelly.

There was also the case of a league game in Derry. Holmes/Connelly explain that a few minutes were lost when the coach went through, rather than around, a town between Letterkenny and Derry but that it was irrelevant as, on arrival, they were delayed for a number of minutes before getting access to the dressing-room. Mayo won the game.


Notice how Breheny helpfully tells us that Mayo won the latter match. Thus implying that the result negates all the 'pettiest of issues' that bothered an unnamed number of players. But also notice that there is no mention of the result in the other match from Breheny. That game was lost to a last minute goal. How often do we hear it is a game of inches? No balance there from Breheny.

Now imagine showing up 15 minutes late for Jim Gavin, Jack O'Connor, Eamon Fitzmaurice, Joe Kernan and telling them that it was due to it being Palm Sunday. Or you took a wrong turn on the way. Imagine telling Big Joe not to get all upset about 'the pettiest of issues'.

Agree but what do you expect from the Indo. I actually remember Fitzmaurice giving out about Kerry being delayed to Croker because they had to reverse out of St. Pats in Drumcondra where they did their warm up. They lost to Dublin. I think it was 2013. Fail to prepare.............