The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[Balboa]

Every team will take a hit on transfer fees, Veron £27 million !   

[corn02]

I think he meant the two main strikers getting 20 each, he was basically trying to justify his reason for rotation.

Cisse and Bellamy going for £8 million each, how on Earth are we getting £8 million for Cisse?

[Over the Bar]

how on Earth are we getting £8 million for Cisse?

Judging by Benitez's beard, I'd guess it must be because he's blowing the Marseille president in the public toilets somewhere!

[Gabriel_Hurl]

highlights froms yesterday's first pre-season game vs Wrexham

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hhhs_wrexham-23-liverpool-highlights

[02]

Liverpool close to capturing Babel
By Sam Wallace
Published: 09 July 2007

Liverpool made their second major move in the summer transfer market yesterday with a bid for the highly rated Dutch winger Ryan Babel. The club were understood to have offered around €10m (£6.75m) for the Ajax attacker, who was also a target for Arsenal and Newcastle.

Babel, 20, has attracted interest from all over Europe but it seems Rafa Benitez, the Liverpool manager, wants to make him the club's second significant signing of the close season after Fernando Torres. The player impressed in the Netherlands Under-21 team who won the European Championship on home soil last month and is regarded as the best of a crop of outstanding young Dutch talent.

He has already been capped by the full Netherlands side, scoring on his debut against Romania in March 2005, while the national team manager Marco van Basten has said Babel has the potential to be the next Thierry Henry.

Liverpool already have four first-team strikers in Torres, Peter Crouch, Dirk Kuyt and Andrei Voronin, but Babel is more adaptable and can be used as a winger. Benitez has said before that wide players are his priority this summer and he seems to have lost out on Florent Malouda, who will join Chelsea this week.

Ajax have not yet accepted Liverpool's bid for Babel, but it is close to their valuation of the striker.

By Sam Wallace

The Independent
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First I have heard of this guy, hope he is not another Mark Gonzalez!!

[full back]

Seen a bit of this lad Babel in the European Championships & he looked impressive.
Would be a good signing for the scousers as he can also play on the wing

[corn02]

Indeed he was probably the star of the recent European U21 championship. Have not seen enough of him though.

[brokencrossbar1]

 
It's not fair to suggest that Fernando Torres is the piece to complete the Liverpool jigsaw.


For starters, it's a phrase that's been abused too often in the past. He's here to improve the team as much as possible, not to 'complete' it.
But make no mistake: this is, in himself, a complete centre-forward, with the potential to get better still.
 
And most importantly, one who changes the dynamics of Liverpool's attack.
 
Irrespective of his individual ability, which people will always quibble about ('is he world-class?', 'does he score enough goals?', etc), Torres is the type of player who will not only suit Benítez's system but combine unique individual talents with a mature team ethic.
 
Whether or not he is worth £20m is moot. If you can buy one individual who, as well as contributing directly himself, brings the best out of four or five others, then how do you put a price on that?
 
And, of course, what he is worth to Liverpool depends on how much he gives the club over the next half-decade (or more), not how he does in the first few weeks of the season when the critics will be hyper-sensitive.
 
If, in the next few years, he helps land some of the trophies that matter, that will justify the outlay. He doesn't have to score 50 goals and win the World Player of the Year, simply help the team win games. Wayne Rooney only scored 14 league goals last season, but he contributed in a number of ways to United's title success.
 
Reading a whole host of testimonials made in recent years by many of the the leading lights of the Spanish game –– Frank Rijkaard, Raul, Ronaldo, David Beckham –– it's clear just how highly rated Torres is.
 
They have waxed lyrical about him. The same applies to his ex-coaches, from youth level up to first-team bosses, and some of La Liga's retired greats.
 
Each talks in awed terms of Torres' pace, his power, and his skill. But perhaps more tellingly, every last one mentions at least one aspect of his psychological make-up. Because more than anything, it is this last thing that will determine just how much of a success he proves in English football, and is what gives him a much better chance than most.
 
He is labelled mature, determined, responsible, mentally strong and a winner. To captain Spain's third-biggest club at the age of 19 highlights remarkable personal qualities.
 
But to also be its local hero, talisman, and principle goalscorer, when that team lacked overall quality, speaks of an ability to handle immense pressure. While he now has the new pressure of a big price tag, he has, at long last, lost the overwhelming burden of carrying an entire club. At Liverpool, others will share that weight.
 
How he will fare in English football cannot be foretold –– no signing comes with a guarantee –– but what's clear is that Torres has the potential to be a legend at Anfield.
 
He has never worked with a coach anywhere near as good as Benítez, and certainly not played with so many top-class players at club level. He has the ability, in the right setting, to see his game go up a notch or two from his previously impressive highs.
 
Torres is not a player whose reputation has been founded on hard, cold figures; he was not so prolific in Spain that his stats were uttered in hushed tones, as proof of some outrageous talent. Having said that, 75 league goals in 173 games, which edges close to a goal every other game, is still a fine record.
 
But as regular watchers of Spanish football will attest to, he is a footballer who needs to be seen, a footballer capable of special things.
 
Rather than a great goalscorer, he had been a scorer of great goals. While he may never be ultra-prolific, Torres has that gift of scoring goals out of nothing: a curling shot from distance, an outrageous lob from an unlikely angle, a spectacular flying volley, a thumping header.
 
It's said by some that Torres misses too many chances. It's also noted that he has never hit 20 league goals, although having managed 19, that's a tad pedantic. In that sense he's like Michael Owen: his best league total for Liverpool was 19, and he was also accused of missing too many chances. But good strikers aren't afraid to miss. The best keep getting back in there, and win the team enough games when it matters. Bad strikers are the ones who never miss any because they shy away.
 
Torres is also someone who, like Thierry Henry, can create his own chances. And that's a priceless commodity. Anyone who can score goals out of nothing is a valuable asset. Torres runs at defenders with pace and directness (but also intelligence), and that in itself can win a host of free-kicks and penalties, and simply create panic in opposition defences.
 
Of course, 'panic' is not measured by statistics. But it makes defences crumble, and others can profit. Like Henry, he can drift wide to where he is very comfortable, either to pick the ball up and run infield to shoot, or merely to create space, or chances, for others.
 
From a tactical point of view Torres ticks all the boxes. The Reds now have a quick striker who can play centrally, either in a pair or, as he did in Spain, on his own: something that never suits smaller strikers, who can't offer the physical presence, and usually require a 'bodyguard'. It instantly limits things, if you have to include one player just to get the best out of another.
 
It's not so much the quantity of goals Torres will score that will elevate the team, but his ability to score the kind of goals that few other strikers can, and to offer a different threat to the Reds' top duo last season.
 
While Kuyt and Crouch shared an impressive 32 goals last season, 30 came from within the penalty area. But it's not just that the pair finished these chances in the box –– without fail, they either received the ball inside the box or right on the very edge. That requires accurate supply. What Torres provides is the ability to take the ball into the box himself, perhaps from as far back as his own half; or to score from outside the box with his powerful shooting.
 
Complete
 
One thing Rafa Benítez was not able to utilise during his first three years was a 'complete' centre-forward: the quick, strong and tall striker who could be relied upon to score goals as well as link play intelligently, create chances for others, work for the team and hold the ball up.
 
By this I mean someone along the lines of Didier Drogba and Thierry Henry, or going a little further back, Blackburn-era Alan Shearer, when at his quickest, or Nicolas Anelka, when he burst onto the scene. Ruud van Nistelrooy, when he wasn't being blown over by a gust of wind, was another. It's notable that the aforementioned players all led the line in league title triumphs.
 
Kuyt and Crouch remain hugely effective players and, in their mid-20s, are still improving. No one in England offers more sweat for the cause than Kuyt –– again, stats don't really measure how the Reds won games like the one in Barcelona, in large part down to his sheer leg-work –– and no other striker in the Premiership can pose the kind of problems Crouch does.
 
But teams are so much more dangerous with pace in attack, and either of Kuyt or Crouch would benefit from playing alongside Torres, with his ability to get in behind defences. Torres can help Kuyt and Crouch bag more goals, and that's one of the reasons he's been bought. Not to score them all himself. Thirteen of Kuyt's 14 goals last season were close-range finishes, so getting him into those areas more often will help the team. Remember, this is also a player who hit the woodwork seven times, all with fine efforts.
 
Also, with so many talented midfielders now at the club, Torres gives the option of an attacking 4-5-1, particularly away from home in tougher arenas, where the Spaniard can do the lone striker stuff so well, but also help lead the kinds of lightning breaks that can win such matches.
 
While Torres' goals record is not remarkable, there are precedents that suggest he could yet turn into a real goal-machine. There are no guarantees, of course, and there will always be so much more to his game than goals, but two of modern football's greatest goal-getters were actually far less prolific at the same stage of their careers.
 
Torres arrives in England a fraction older than Theirry Henry was when he started his Highbury love-in. Before his move to London, Henry had scored just 23 league goals in 126 games for Monaco and Juventus. While also sometimes utilised as a winger, Henry was not noted for his clinical finishing when playing as a striker.
 
In a better team, and under a compatriot and mentor who thoroughly understood him, Henry came of age at Arsenal. His career strike rate went from a goal every five games to better than a goal every 1.5 games for Arsenal.
 
So if that's the example of the overseas' star who came good at 22/23, you can also look at another example closer to home.
 
Alan Shearer showed little sign of what was to come when, aged 22, he moved from Southampton to Blackburn in 1992. While he'd just enjoyed a fine season at the Dell, he left the south coast with very similar figures to pre-Arsenal Thierry Henry: 23 league goals in 118 games.
 
In four seasons at the Lancashire club he notched a phenomenal 112 Premiership goals in just 138 games, followed by 148 in 303 league games for Newcastle.
 
This is not to say Torres will automatically follow suit. But it does show that, at 23, some goalscorers are yet to reach their full potential, and a move to a better team can help unlock it.
 
Luis Garcia, a great little player, will be missed. But it's a team taking on a new shape.
 
Harry Kewell is fit and ready, and, if his problems are behind him and he can retain his pace and power, should be like signing a new top-class player.
 
Andrei Voronin, who often plays behind the main striker and who can also play in midfield, is another quick and powerful frontrunner. Not an out-and-out striker, he averaged a respectable one-in-three for Bayer Leverkusen, and is someone who can fit Benítez's ideal of four attacking players sharing 15 goals each. It's clear the Reds will be a big, strong side –– but, crucially, not at the expense of skill. All of these are technically gifted players.
 
While the elements continue to fall into place, the opposition haven't been idle, either, and even mid-tier teams are spending fortunes. While Torres will almost certainly improve the Reds significantly, the competition for the title will be hotter than ever.
 
All Benítez can do is make Liverpool better, and for me, Torres is one player who perfectly fits the bill.


This article from Paul Tomkinson highlights the realities of the Torres purchase.   At the same time in their respective careers Henry and Shearer were scoring 1 league goal in 5 for their respective teams.  Torres is scoring 1 in 2-3 games for Athletico.  If you look at these stats on their own it has me excited even more.
 

[The Real Laoislad]

Jamie Carragher has confirmed he is considering his international future with England.

Widespread reports over the weekend suggested Carragher was quitting the international scene after growing increasingly frustrated at his bit-part role in the England side.

Carragher was suprisingly omitted from the England side for last month's Euro 2008 qualifier with Estonia despite a number of defenders being unavailable.

The Liverpool stalwart now believes at this stage of his career he is not a regular in the England side he may as well concentrate all his efforts on Liverpool

"There are a number of reasons why I've been thinking about this," Carragher told the Liverpool Echo.

"I first thought about it after the World Cup because I wondered how many chances I'd get for England at centre-half.

"Then when Sol Campbell was out of the picture I thought I could put pressure on Rio Ferdinand for the other centre-half position alongside John Terry.

"Given my form for Liverpool, I genuinely thought that was possible, but over the last 12 months players like Jonathan Woodgate and Ledley King have played there ahead of me.

"It's just that from a purely personal point of view, it's been disappointing because after some of my performances for Liverpool I thought I deserved a chance.

"I hoped I could come in, play out of my skin and do well enough to keep my place, not just for one game or two, but cement it.

"It was particularly disappointing for me when Rio was out against Estonia and I wasn't picked.

"I thought I'd had a good season for Liverpool, especially helping us get to the Champions League final.

"Like any player I thought I deserved to play, but not doing so made the situation crystal clear to me.

"I'm 29 now, and I have to accept if I'm not a regular starter now, I don't think I ever will be.

"It's going to be difficult for me to be seen as anything more than a squad player, and at this stage of my career that's not what I'm interested in.

"Playing the odd game here and there isn't enough. Four or five years ago I was happy to have that role, but not now."

Carragher insists his decision to consider his international future has nothing to do with Steve McClaren.

"I want to stress this has nothing do with Steve McClaren," continued Carragher.

"It wouldn't have mattered who was the England manager, I've been thinking about this for a while. I've worked with Steve for five years as part of the England set-up.

"I have a great time working with him and a lot of the England coaches. I'm just thinking about this from a purely personal point of view.

"The reason I'm delaying a final decision is because I didn't want people to think I have a bad attitude or I'm turning my back on the country at a bad time

[Balboa]

I hope he does pack it in for those wankers, will prolong his Liverpool career. All he does is defend, maybe thats not what Mc Calren is looking for in a central defender. Maybe if he was a bit more high profile with the media, ( obvious Mc Claren is a media whore when he let them dictate that he should take the great white hype Beckham back) or if he got his hair braided or dreadlocks put in it he would be further up the pecking order.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Benitez trumps rivals with £6.75m deal for Babel
By Sam Wallace
Published: 10 July 2007

The Ajax winger Ryan Babel is due in Liverpool tomorrow for a medical with a view to completing his £6.75m move to Anfield. The deal to bring the Dutch international to Liverpool is understood to be worth up to £10m according to the success he achieves.

The signing of Babel represents something of a triumph for Rafael Benitez, who has secured one of the most highly-prized young players in European football. Coming barely a week since Liverpool's £27m signing of Fernando Torres the acquisition of Babel, 20, was sealed despite serious interest from Arsenal, Tottenham and Newcastle.

Babel has been played as an orthodox striker for Ajax but it is as a wide player that Benitez intends to use him this season. The Liverpool manager may yet move again in the transfer market for another winger before the window closes. He already has a quartet of strikers in Torres, Peter Crouch, Dirk Kuyt and Andrei Voronin and, after his attack on the club's transfer policy in May, next season's squad is taking shape.

While Babel's agent Winnie Haatrecht claimed yesterday that he was yet to negotiate personal terms for his player that is not understood to be a stumbling block to the deal. Babel was one of the stars in the Netherlands Under-21 team that was victorious in the European Championship earlier this summer but had come to the attention of the Premiership's leading clubs long before then.

Babel has already scored four goals in his 14 appearances for the Dutch national team and Arsène Wenger has been a long-time admirer. However, with the Arsenal manager prepared to concentrate on signing the Croatian Eduardo Da Silva, the Liverpool manager has taken his chance.

Having put pressure on his American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett to back him with money, it would appear that Benitez had been given his wish. When the Babel deal goes through, only Manchester United will have spent more than Benitez this summer.

Djibril Cissé has signed a five-year contract with Marseilles after leaving Liverpool.

Steve McClaren has not given up on persuading the Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher to continue making himself available for his country. The England manager has spoken to Carragher twice, and intends to talk to him again before he names his squad to face Germany on 22 August.

Carragher's decision was prompted by being omitted in favour of Ledley King against Estonia, and he said: "I'm 29, and I have to accept if I'm not a regular starter now, I don't think I ever will be. Playing the odd game here and there is not enough. Four or five years ago I was happy to have that role but not now."

Yesterday he hit back at the talkSPORT presenter Adrian Durham, who accused him of lacking the stomach to play for his place. He said: "Don't ever call me a bottler on radio with all those thousands of people listening

[J70]

I hope he does pack it in for those wankers, will prolong his Liverpool career. All he does is defend, maybe thats not what Mc Calren is looking for in a central defender. Maybe if he was a bit more high profile with the media, ( obvious Mc Claren is a media whore when he let them dictate that he should take the great white hype Beckham back) or if he got his hair braided or dreadlocks put in it he would be further up the pecking order.

Its hard to argue against Ferdinand and Terry as the first choice - they're not inferior players to Carragher, even if Ferdinand's mind wanders from time to time! Carragher is right though, if at this stage he's not even going to the first choice back-up for that pair, he's probably wasting his time and energy going on international duty. Unfortunately for him, England have got a number of decent options at centre-half. Ireland were in a similar, if not better, position in the late eighties when Jack Charlton could afford to banish a top-class defender like David O'Leary to the wilderness for two years because he had McCarthy, Moran, Lawrenson (albeit very briefly) and McGrath. And its not quite up there with Alex Ferguson leaving Alan Hansen, captain of Liverpool and one of the classiest defenders in Europe, behind when going to Mexico in 1986!

[Declan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTJxocLDfEA

Fair play to Carragher

[longball]

Bells out the door! funding for Babel to come in??

[brokencrossbar1]

A bit of profit on the Bellend deal, Babel will come in and give more options going forward.  I don't know whether the Heinze deal comes through but it is not absolutely necessary if Babel plays on the wing in front of Riise.

Getting fed up with no real games on, role on August!