Seanie Johnston Switch and outside managers

[Jinxy]

'Hmmm.... I dunno.
People didn't like us back in the day but they damn well respected us.
Do people respect Kildare?'


Well given that Kildare have beaten Meath 5 times in past 2 years , Id say Banty and Big Joe and the lads might 'respect' them

You'd want to be setting your sights a bit higher than that!

[haranguerer]

You haven't answered my questions at all. To say that "whether or not we have allegiance rules is irrelevant to the argument" doesn't make any sense. Even if it is irrelevant, humour me - should we or should we not regulate who can play where and for whom?

If you think we shouldn't, there's not much more to say. I couldn't disagree more and we would never agree.

If you think we should, it's a debate about what the rules should be and how they should be applied. If you're saying there's a problem of consistency, I'd agree. But that's not a justification for letting Seánie, or anyone else, play where they want until we reach 100% consistency in the application of the rules. On the contrary, that's a recipe for chaos.

I think you're grossly overstating the situation to say:

...for all intents and purposes dont actually have such rules, or at least they certainly arent enforced (which amounts to the same thing).

I'd say we really only hear about the anomalies. There are lads transferring all over the place, week after week as they move house, change jobs, etc. I'd say 90% of them operate within the rules, live where they say they live and want to play wherever they move to, rather than moving (or pretending to move) to where they want to play. And, though I can't prove it, I'd say as many lads get refused for not meeting the requirement as get away with it.

You don't suspend all laws and empty the jails just because a minority of people get away with crimes.

I didnt answer your question because you led on to them as though my answers had an effect on this issue - they dont. I wanted to keep it seperate because it is irrelevant in as much that this is a transfer in todays conditions, with the rules and precedents as they are at present - having a discussion about allegiance rules is very much like talking about whether or not the door should be closed after all the horses have bolted, and this particular discussion is about what we should do with the one we have left. This isnt a debate about what the rules should be and how they should be applied - this is a debate about SJs transfer.

You appear to be making the argument that just because there has been a lack of consistency doesnt mean the rules shouldnt be applied. On the contrary, inconsistent rules simply cant be enforcable. The (rightfully felt) sense of injustice by those who are treated differently from others makes a mockery of the entire rules, process, and organisation. How would you feel if you were in a line of cars travelling along at 50mph and you were the only one pulled in for speeding? Would an answer of 'yeah, well we know its not great, but we're just implementing it now' satisfy? Would it f**k. The rules must be made consistent before they can be enforced properly - consistency must be the cornerstone of any set of rules. So, gven that a whole lot of stock hadnt been placed in the rules previously, the guiding principle in this issue should have been consistency.

In answer to your question (I already answered the hurling one, and the other two are pretty much covered together), I think there should be rules governing who can play where, and for whom. I think the basics of the rules we currently have are adequate. However, they need to be properly enforced. I think all those stupid bullshit get out clauses invented by the GAA which are plainly inconsistent should be got rid of. No hurlers playing for weaker counties, no parentage rule - its bad enough in international soccer, but in a country the size of Ireland its a joke. Transfers within counties should be particularly closely looked at - players are often encouraged by co mgt (and thus co boards) to leave small clubs for bigger ones to help their inter co prospects. Do you not think it funny its still mentioned as an oddity that some lad on a co team is from a junior club? Surely it'd be common enough if they werent transferring.

You're right, there are many transfers which go through fine, and probably a fair few which are rejected. But your analogy is inaccurate. It isnt a case of lads getting away with it, its a case of the same laws not being applied.

Of course, all of the above would still mean Seanie Johnsons transfer would still sail through. See? Irrelevant.

[CornerBackNo2]

McGrattan the Armagh hurler has transfered to Cuchulainns in Armagh.

[rodney trotter]

SEÁN MORAN

THE LONG-RUNNING request from former Cavan player Seán Johnston to transfer to the St Kevin's club in Kildare will be answered this morning. The GAA's Central Competitions Control Committee is expected to deliver its decision on the matter, which has been running for a number of months.

Previous applications for the transfer had been turned down, most recently on the grounds that Johnston, whose move is opposed by both his club Cavan Gaels and the county, had not established a change of residence to Straffan in Kildare.

The transfer will not necessarily be approved if the change of residence has been demonstrated to the committee's satisfaction, as ethos-based objections to what would be effectively a move of convenience may still play a role in the determination.

The matter has become urgent since the new rule adopted at last month's congress, which requires any player looking to transfer to another county to have first played in that county's championship. St Kevin's are due to play this weekend against Leixlip and Johnston needs to take part in the match if he is to be available to Kieran McGeeney's Kildare team for the championship.

Despite rumours yesterday that the CCCC had deferred the matter until next week by which stage St Kevin's would have played, Croke Park sources confirmed last night that a final decision would be delivered today. It would still be open to Johnston to appeal an adverse finding and, if he wishes, take it to the GAA's independent arbitration body, the DRA.

Common sense that they would have the meeting before the game and let Johnston know either way if he is eligble or not, he can still go through the DRA if it doesn't go through.

[rrhf]

It would make a fine subject for a Christy Moore song. 
I think he will get his wish granted now.  Cant wait to see how good he really is... 

[Bingo]

In the bigger picture, I think transfers should be decided at a club level first and foremost. The underlying reason to move from your club to another, should be the main issue and the reasons for doing so have to be proven and justified. Build the rules round that.

On that basis, this transfer should be refused. Thats in an ideal world.

[LeoMc]

SEÁN MORAN

THE LONG-RUNNING request from former Cavan player Seán Johnston to transfer to the St Kevin's club in Kildare will be answered this morning. The GAA's Central Competitions Control Committee is expected to deliver its decision on the matter, which has been running for a number of months.

Previous applications for the transfer had been turned down, most recently on the grounds that Johnston, whose move is opposed by both his club Cavan Gaels and the county, had not established a change of residence to Straffan in Kildare.

The transfer will not necessarily be approved if the change of residence has been demonstrated to the committee's satisfaction, as ethos-based objections to what would be effectively a move of convenience may still play a role in the determination.

The matter has become urgent since the new rule adopted at last month's congress, which requires any player looking to transfer to another county to have first played in that county's championship. St Kevin's are due to play this weekend against Leixlip and Johnston needs to take part in the match if he is to be available to Kieran McGeeney's Kildare team for the championship.

Despite rumours yesterday that the CCCC had deferred the matter until next week by which stage St Kevin's would have played, Croke Park sources confirmed last night that a final decision would be delivered today. It would still be open to Johnston to appeal an adverse finding and, if he wishes, take it to the GAA's independent arbitration body, the DRA.

Common sense that they would have the meeting before the game and let Johnston know either way if he is eligble or not, he can still go through the DRA if it doesn't go through.

Has he trained with St Kevins or does he just walk onto that team?
I suppose a 1 minute cameo at the end is all that is required to meet the rules.

[LeoMc]

In the bigger picture, I think transfers should be decided at a club level first and foremost. The underlying reason to move from your club to another, should be the main issue and the reasons for doing so have to be proven and justified. Build the rules round that.

On that basis, this transfer should be refused. Thats in an ideal world.

I would have to agree, the club is the primary building block of the association. County should be secondary.
I don't like the fact that SJ can just walk out of (or get dropped from) one County panel and walk into another the same season.  IMO it is sends out the wrong signals.

Had he spent this season  out of County football before joining Kildare it would not stick in the craw so much.

[AZOffaly]

Transfers are at club level, as far as I know, at least in the vast majority of cases.

The standard transfer is that you move from club a to club b. If you are an inter county transfer, you are asked to specify if you are ALSO transferring your county allegiance. You can choose to either represent the county of your new club, or represent your home county.

[Bingo]

Transfers are at club level, as far as I know, at least in the vast majority of cases.

The standard transfer is that you move from club a to club b. If you are an inter county transfer, you are asked to specify if you are ALSO transferring your county allegiance. You can choose to either represent the county of your new club, or represent your home county.

Yes, fully understand that but its in clear in this case he wants to move to play county football and the club is secondary. He should have to satisfy why he wants to move club, county not even be considered. Move club due to family, work, wife, issue with old club, whatever.

I'd like to see Seanie Johnson convince anyone why he wants to move from Cavan Gaels to St Kevins.

[DuffleKing]

He apparently meets all of the GAA's criteria to move from cavan to this Kevin's club. Should there be extra criteria if you are a good player? Obviously even the cccc believe this to be the case when they won't meet to rule on it.

If this is so the transfer should be granted and all involved cursed.

[orangeman]

He apparently meets all of the GAA's criteria to move from cavan to this Kevin's club. Should there be extra criteria if you are a good player? Obviously even the cccc believe this to be the case when they won't meet to rule on it.

If this is so the transfer should be granted and all involved cursed.

Na, Just if you've been caught lying through your teeth during your original application.

[Bingo]

He apparently meets all of the GAA's criteria to move from cavan to this Kevin's club. Should there be extra criteria if you are a good player? Obviously even the cccc believe this to be the case when they won't meet to rule on it.

If this is so the transfer should be granted and all involved cursed.

Fine, if the two clubs sign a transfer that isn't an issue. Have the Gaels signed it? I think they may have.

My basis is hard to implement and its probably part of why the GAA are introducing this new championship rule - to prove you are a club player first.

This is a very rare case with county football been at the fore rather than club.

[DuffleKing]

Gaels don't need to sign it. If he meets the criteria to move, that's it.

[Lar Naparka]

He apparently meets all of the GAA's criteria to move from cavan to this Kevin's club. Should there be extra criteria if you are a good player? Obviously even the cccc believe this to be the case when they won't meet to rule on it.

If this is so the transfer should be granted and all involved cursed.

Na, Just if you've been caught lying through your teeth during your original application.

While I agree with you on this, I don't think two wrongs will ever make a right.
Even if I think Seanie has been lying, the CCCC seems to be playing silly buggers here and that is wrong.
If it transpires that the only reason for the appeal hearing to be postpond was to deny him the chance to play for Kildare, the CCC is messing around with the rules- same as Johnston and the Kildare CB.
If his transfer has to be blocked, let this be because the rules don't allow it.
If this is not the case, his transfer can only be delayed, not blocked. He could be eligible to play next season.
In any event, I don't think the fun is over just yet.
My money is on S Kevin's lodging an appeal or threatening to go to court.