Seanie Johnston Switch and outside managers

[haranguerer]

Ethos (play /ˈiːθɒs/ or /ˈiːθoʊs/) is a Greek word meaning "character" that is used to describe the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, nation, or ideology.

Thanks wikipedia

I believe ethos is the correct word. It is the guiding belief that characterises the ideology of the GAA. That some choose to try to go against that ethos does not make it any less of a guiding principle.

You seem to be missing the point entirely - it is the GAA themselves who have went against their ethos, or guiding principle, so that does indeed make it less of a guiding principle.

Not missing the point at all. As I've said, the vast majority, thousands and thousands adhere and subscribe to this ethos. Just because a few high profile cases have been allowed to slip through does not change the way the 'GAA' (which is every member in the country) feel as a whole.

What ethos? There is nothing to subscribe to. And it isnt a 'few high profile cases' which have been allowed to slip through - there have been many, and many have been actively encouraged.

With regard to those in power doing what suits them, but this shouldnt change the guiding principle, nice thought, but of course it affects it. If they started paying players tomorrow I think that would affect the amateur ethos, dont you?

Graffiti from a different time stated 'When those who make the law, break the law, in the name of the law, there is no law'. Substitute 'ethos' for 'law' and it seems apt in this circumstance.

[Hardy]

The hurling exception introduced to improve the standard of the game in weaker counties is in no way comparable to the chicanery indulged in by Johnston, Walsh and the like. It was a duly instituted rule, approved by the membership, to set aside temporarily the allegiance rule for a greater good. To try to use it as a precedent to justify a free-for-all in allowing people to play for whomever they want is ridiculous.

In relation to the bit in bold - It may be 'morally' superior, but its still just as much a breach of an'ethos' which is my point - the whole ethos talk is absolute bullshit.

With regard to the enlarged bit - whos seeking to do that??

You, I thought:

Let him play wherever to f**k he wants....

Seriously, haranguerer, I'm losing track of your argument. Should we have allegiance rules or not? Are you arguing against the letter of the rule or the whole principle? What's the point of mentioning the hurling derogation if it's not to use it as a precedent to abandoning all rules of allegiance? What do you think should have happened to Johnston's application when it was returned "not known at this address"?

[AZOffaly]

Explain how Fergal McNulty can play club football for Urney in Tyrone but play county football for Donegal but Seanie Johnston can't play for Cavan Gaels and Kildare?
#menotunderstand

I don't know his circumstances but either
a) He is from Donegal, and has transferred clubs to Urney in Tyrone. or
b) He has been allowed play for Donegal due to a parentage exception.

Seanie had no attachment to Kildare at all. If he moves club, then all is kosher, because to move club, he'll have to prove he is living there.

[Jinxy]

Bottom line, is McGeeney's approach to county football, or should I say, his uber professional approach not detrimental to both the GAA and Kildare? Kildare are fast becoming the most disliked team in the land. The county board is into the eyeballs giving McGeeney and his backroom team everything their hearts desire. They get a €300k handout from Croke Pk and a few days later jet off to Portugal (and no-one is buying the players paid for it cr&p). Seriously, what planet are these people living on?? The country's on its knees, unemployment is through the roof, most folk dont have the money to scratch their holes, yet a  county team up to its oxters heads off for 10 days warm weather training, crazy. Added to that, this dubious transfer and approaches to other players, imo whats going in Kildare is completely against what the GAA should be about

Even if Kildare did win the All-Ireland, would it really be all worth it? County board bankrupt, reputation in tatters
What price a Sam Maguire?

I've been saying this for years.

[Hardy]

Bottom line, is McGeeney's approach to county football, or should I say, his uber professional approach not detrimental to both the GAA and Kildare? Kildare are fast becoming the most disliked team in the land. The county board is into the eyeballs giving McGeeney and his backroom team everything their hearts desire. They get a €300k handout from Croke Pk and a few days later jet off to Portugal (and no-one is buying the players paid for it cr&p). Seriously, what planet are these people living on?? The country's on its knees, unemployment is through the roof, most folk dont have the money to scratch their holes, yet a  county team up to its oxters heads off for 10 days warm weather training, crazy. Added to that, this dubious transfer and approaches to other players, imo whats going in Kildare is completely against what the GAA should be about

Even if Kildare did win the All-Ireland, would it really be all worth it? County board bankrupt, reputation in tatters
What price a Sam Maguire?

I've been saying this for years.

It could be the last ingredient in the recipe for success. Teams people like don't win stuff.

[nrico2006]

Explain how Fergal McNulty can play club football for Urney in Tyrone but play county football for Donegal but Seanie Johnston can't play for Cavan Gaels and Kildare?
#menotunderstand

I don't know his circumstances but either
a) He is from Donegal, and has transferred clubs to Urney in Tyrone. or
b) He has been allowed play for Donegal due to a parentage exception.

Seanie had no attachment to Kildare at all. If he moves club, then all is kosher, because to move club, he'll have to prove he is living there.

I think the fact that he is from Donegal is why, although I think he has always played with them.  How is your fella McGrattan from Portaferry allowed to play hurling with Armagh? 

[rosnarun]

over the years lots of mayo Players have played with dublin (  and others) and continued to play for mayo conor mortimer at the moment for example  its a neccary part of living in a county with high migration rates
and if a player moves lock stock and barrel the he of course should be allowed to change county too  but the CCCC are dead right not to go out of their way for some one who is doing his best to circumanvigate the rules . indeed i would be more upset if they held a special meeting to facillitate such chicanery .

[haranguerer]

You, I thought:

Let him play wherever to f**k he wants....

Seriously, haranguerer, I'm losing track of your argument. Should we have allegiance rules or not? Are you arguing against the letter of the rule of the whole principle? What's the point of mentioning the hurling derogation if it's not to use it as a precedent to abandoning all rules of allegiance? What do you think should have happened to Johnston's application when it was returned "not known at this address"?

Whether or not we have allegiance rules is irrelevant to this argument. I've pointed out that we for all intents and purposes dont actually have such rules, or at least they certainly arent enforced (which amounts to the same thing). In some cases (which is where the hurling came into it) breaking such 'rules' (described as a key ethos of the whole association no less) is actively encouraged. I never sought to use the hurling as a precedent for letting everyone go anywhere, rather I am pointing to it to demonstrate how ridiculous and redundant the 'ethos' 'argument' is in the SJ saga, and no matter how worthwhile the intention, its certainly relevant from that aspect. Its the hypocrisy of the whole thing which is galling - ones wringing hands about ethos etc etc when if it was someone transferring from westmeath to leitrim, or fermanagh to carlow there wouldnt be a word said.

[LeoMc]

Explain how Fergal McNulty can play club football for Urney in Tyrone but play county football for Donegal but Seanie Johnston can't play for Cavan Gaels and Kildare?
#menotunderstand

Does the Urney parish not extend into Donegal?
I don't think Cavan Gaels patch extends into Kildare.

[rodney trotter]

Connor Gough played with Armagh Minors last year and since switched to Down. He played on the Armagh Minor team that was beaten by Cavan last year in the Minor final, he was involved with Down seniors this year in the Mckenna Cup and league. So much for ethos surrounding that transfer.

[johnneycool]

Explain how Fergal McNulty can play club football for Urney in Tyrone but play county football for Donegal but Seanie Johnston can't play for Cavan Gaels and Kildare?
#menotunderstand

I don't know his circumstances but either
a) He is from Donegal, and has transferred clubs to Urney in Tyrone. or
b) He has been allowed play for Donegal due to a parentage exception.

Seanie had no attachment to Kildare at all. If he moves club, then all is kosher, because to move club, he'll have to prove he is living there.

I think the fact that he is from Donegal is why, although I think he has always played with them.  How is your fella McGrattan from Portaferry allowed to play hurling with Armagh?

He lives in Armagh and has done for a while. He traveled to Portaferry for club games but played intercounty for Armagh hurlers.

Not sure if it was using that rule where hurlers from stronger counties living in other counties could play for the county and also their home club.

I think there were a few Tipp lads playing for Kildare hurlers in the chrsity Ring a few years back, no sure now though.

[Jinxy]

Bottom line, is McGeeney's approach to county football, or should I say, his uber professional approach not detrimental to both the GAA and Kildare? Kildare are fast becoming the most disliked team in the land. The county board is into the eyeballs giving McGeeney and his backroom team everything their hearts desire. They get a €300k handout from Croke Pk and a few days later jet off to Portugal (and no-one is buying the players paid for it cr&p). Seriously, what planet are these people living on?? The country's on its knees, unemployment is through the roof, most folk dont have the money to scratch their holes, yet a  county team up to its oxters heads off for 10 days warm weather training, crazy. Added to that, this dubious transfer and approaches to other players, imo whats going in Kildare is completely against what the GAA should be about

Even if Kildare did win the All-Ireland, would it really be all worth it? County board bankrupt, reputation in tatters
What price a Sam Maguire?

I've been saying this for years.

It could be the last ingredient in the recipe for success. Teams people like don't win stuff.

Hmmm.... I dunno.
People didn't like us back in the day but they damn well respected us.
Do people respect Kildare?

[LilySavage]

'Hmmm.... I dunno.
People didn't like us back in the day but they damn well respected us.
Do people respect Kildare?'


Well given that Kildare have beaten Meath 5 times in past 2 years , Id say Banty and Big Joe and the lads might 'respect' them

[Hardy]

You, I thought:

Let him play wherever to f**k he wants....

Seriously, haranguerer, I'm losing track of your argument. Should we have allegiance rules or not? Are you arguing against the letter of the rule of the whole principle? What's the point of mentioning the hurling derogation if it's not to use it as a precedent to abandoning all rules of allegiance? What do you think should have happened to Johnston's application when it was returned "not known at this address"?

Whether or not we have allegiance rules is irrelevant to this argument. I've pointed out that we for all intents and purposes dont actually have such rules, or at least they certainly arent enforced (which amounts to the same thing). In some cases (which is where the hurling came into it) breaking such 'rules' (described as a key ethos of the whole association no less) is actively encouraged. I never sought to use the hurling as a precedent for letting everyone go anywhere, rather I am pointing to it to demonstrate how ridiculous and redundant the 'ethos' 'argument' is in the SJ saga, and no matter how worthwhile the intention, its certainly relevant from that aspect. Its the hypocrisy of the whole thing which is galling - ones wringing hands about ethos etc etc when if it was someone transferring from westmeath to leitrim, or fermanagh to carlow there wouldnt be a word said.

You haven't answered my questions at all. To say that "whether or not we have allegiance rules is irrelevant to the argument" doesn't make any sense. Even if it is irrelevant, humour me - should we or should we not regulate who can play where and for whom?

If you think we shouldn't, there's not much more to say. I couldn't disagree more and we would never agree.

If you think we should, it's a debate about what the rules should be and how they should be applied. If you're saying there's a problem of consistency, I'd agree. But that's not a justification for letting Seánie, or anyone else, play where they want until we reach 100% consistency in the application of the rules. On the contrary, that's a recipe for chaos.

I think you're grossly overstating the situation to say:

...for all intents and purposes dont actually have such rules, or at least they certainly arent enforced (which amounts to the same thing).

I'd say we really only hear about the anomalies. There are lads transferring all over the place, week after week as they move house, change jobs, etc. I'd say 90% of them operate within the rules, live where they say they live and want to play wherever they move to, rather than moving (or pretending to move) to where they want to play. And, though I can't prove it, I'd say as many lads get refused for not meeting the requirement as get away with it.

You don't suspend all laws and empty the jails just because a minority of people get away with crimes.

[Hardy]

Bottom line, is McGeeney's approach to county football, or should I say, his uber professional approach not detrimental to both the GAA and Kildare? Kildare are fast becoming the most disliked team in the land. The county board is into the eyeballs giving McGeeney and his backroom team everything their hearts desire. They get a €300k handout from Croke Pk and a few days later jet off to Portugal (and no-one is buying the players paid for it cr&p). Seriously, what planet are these people living on?? The country's on its knees, unemployment is through the roof, most folk dont have the money to scratch their holes, yet a  county team up to its oxters heads off for 10 days warm weather training, crazy. Added to that, this dubious transfer and approaches to other players, imo whats going in Kildare is completely against what the GAA should be about

Even if Kildare did win the All-Ireland, would it really be all worth it? County board bankrupt, reputation in tatters
What price a Sam Maguire?

I've been saying this for years.

It could be the last ingredient in the recipe for success. Teams people like don't win stuff.

Hmmm.... I dunno.
People didn't like us back in the day but they damn well respected us.
Do people respect Kildare?

I'd say Kildare are respectable enough but I doubt if anyone fears them. Fear is the thing.