FAI...June 2024 Friendlies v Hungary and Portugal

[6th sam]

I'm no expert but there is a dilemma for FAI.
We are a long way off the top table. We are a small island nation, and almost uniquely soccer is not the main team sport with football hurling and rugby pulling on players and being prominent in many schools . Brexit means that players can no Longer go to England at 16 , and the structure of the club game, and development  here , though improving , is one of the lowest in Europe. We have not performed well in Euros , nations league or World Cup qualifiers for several years, which leaves us as perennial low seeds.
The only area of quick gain that I can see is tapping into the diaspora again like Jack charlton did. Apparently more than Half the England team could have played for Ireland eg Rice, grealish , Kane , but back in the day Top quality English born players Townsend , Aldridge , lawrenson declared for Ireland and couldn't switch as easily as they do now. Last nights team of championship players emphasises how hard it is for an Irishman to make premier league , and it's going to get harder .

FAI need to decide on what to do:
1. Target the diaspora , not easy as English FA will resist given their recent gains .
2. Massively improve structures at home- that will take at least 20 years before you see results and will only be transformational in an All-ireland context ( many NI players would prefer to play for Ireland )
3. Be realistic and Accept that being truly competitive in top international soccer from our current standing is absolutely impossible , and cut their cloth accordingly

Much as Kenny has positive qualities, progress in international soccer depends on getting "results" in as many games as possible , to improve seeding for future tournaments . Results will only come by playing a dreadfully unattractive game to squeeze out results . Either that , or try to play quality football without the tools to do it.
A dilemma akin to Two bald men fighting over a comb .

[6th sam]

Also bringing on a League 2 player ahead of Ryan Manning was disgraceful. Then his post match interview with false optimism.

A very recent league 2 player who spent his career in premier league and championship, has over 100 caps , an obvious leader in the camp ,  clearly respected inside one outside the group.
Hardly disgraceful , the problems tor Irish soccer are massive but James McClean isn't one of them

[seafoid]

They weren't going to win this match in a month of Sundays. Anyone who is disappointed is nuts.


This group is a hoor so first was never on. If France weren't in the group and it only had 4 teams could Ireland come first or second?

That's the question. Max points 18. We would need to turn effort into results despite the quality of our squad and do better against the Dutch. We would need the players to show some substance and score repeatedly against quality opposition.


If you are third
seed you have to win the other games. And our largely championship players have slower reaction times and  make more mistakes. It is challenging.

They won't sack him until 4th place is definite.
Greece is 2x relegation 6 pointers. Not getting a draw in Greece was the worst result.
But Greece are only 3 points ahead.They beat us and Gibraltar. For third  Ireland have to do better than Greece vs the Orangemen or beat them at the Aviva  and have a better goal difference.

For second we would need to beat the  Dutch twice which is implausible given our record.

A win and a draw with a superior goal difference and no injuries also looks like a stretch.

If Ferguson is banging in the goals, goal difference shouldn't be an issue. But someone needs to pass the ball to him.

[mrdeeds]

Also bringing on a League 2 player ahead of Ryan Manning was disgraceful. Then his post match interview with false optimism.

A very recent league 2 player who spent his career in premier league and championship, has over 100 caps , an obvious leader in the camp ,  clearly respected inside one outside the group.
Hardly disgraceful , the problems tor Irish soccer are massive but James McClean isn't one of them

He's barely played this season and has been poor for a few seasons now. What message does it send leaving an in form player on bench.

[6th sam]

Also bringing on a League 2 player ahead of Ryan Manning was disgraceful. Then his post match interview with false optimism.

A very recent league 2 player who spent his career in premier league and championship, has over 100 caps , an obvious leader in the camp ,  clearly respected inside one outside the group.
Hardly disgraceful , the problems tor Irish soccer are massive but James McClean isn't one of them

He's barely played this season and has been poor for a few seasons now. What message does it send leaving an in form player on bench.

Presumably the manager and his staff , having being at training and assessed all players available , make selection choices that they feel give them the best chance of a result. It's not in their interest to do otherwise . We aren't good enough to beat the best team in the world in Paris. If those, whose job depends on positive results,  thought that manning would give a better chance of a result he'd have been playing . We can't possibly be good enough to be truly competitive in international soccer. It's not Italian 90 when we could pick a team of quality premier league players including genuine world class players playing fir top teams.
  The players on the field did brilliantly to stay in the game , and Ferguson has serious potential( though hopefully not injury prone) , but it is delusional to think we can be truly competitive. Too many factors are weighted against us.
1.poor structures and finance
2. Brexit closing English doors
3. English FA and IFA closing doors
4. Too many other more successful team sports
5. Small population
6. No sign that any of the above factors will change


Blaming the likes of Kenny and mcClean is missing the point. We are what we are. A player born in Ireland has virtually no chance of becoming a world class player ( even Ferguson is not there yet) , and we were only competitive when we had world class players.

An all-ireland soccer structure could change that eventually but it would take 20 years, and even then success is not guaranteed

[imtommygunn]

A problem is expectations... Trappatoni and O'Neill got to tournaments with mediocre enough teams so this has now become the expectation when really it shouldn't be. It also highlights another thing - Kenny sets the team up to play football and those managers set us up to be hard to break down and to grind out games. The players aren't really there to make that gameplan happen against the better teams so I wouldn't suggest Kenny is a failure but if you want results rather than trying to build a footballing culture he maybe isn't the man for the job.

[Applesisapples]

Brexit might be a small factor, but with the common travel area I doubt it. The demise of players from this Island and to some degree Scotland and Wales is directly linked to the influx of quality foreign players to the Premier League. It means that with limited development spaces in panels English clubs are always going to favour an English player where you have two players of similar ability one being English and one being Irish/Scots/Welsh. That's why most players from these nations end up in the lower divisions. you need to be  a good player or have shown your worth in the championship to get a sniff in the premier league. Even then you are always likely to be the first out the door.

[seafoid]

A problem is expectations... Trappatoni and O'Neill got to tournaments with mediocre enough teams so this has now become the expectation when really it shouldn't be. It also highlights another thing - Kenny sets the team up to play football and those managers set us up to be hard to break down and to grind out games. The players aren't really there to make that gameplan happen against the better teams so I wouldn't suggest Kenny is a failure but if you want results rather than trying to build a footballing culture he maybe isn't the man for the job.

You can't beat the World Cup finalists with a championship XI. It's worse than expecting Monaghan to beat Dublin.
The thing is turning effort into results against teams on our level like Greece. And the number of goals scored from outside the penalty area is atrocious.
If we could beat Greece at home and get a few goals in Fergie time from Fergie 2 it wouldn't look so bad. Apart from France the Group is still quite open.

[imtommygunn]

Getting beat by France isn't the end of the world - it's the games against the greeces and the like are the problem

[seafoid]

the kitchen sink with 20 minutes to go is not enough. The players had enough time to gel but they are missing someone to lead and take the game by the scruff of the neck and control the dynamic. Someone like either McManus (Monaghan) or McManus (Antrim) or Donnellan (Galway).   There are loads of GAA examples. Also,  we have no midfielder who can operate on the half turn. We do actually , but she is a woman. And the midfield is the big weakness.

[statto]

A problem is expectations... Trappatoni and O'Neill got to tournaments with mediocre enough teams so this has now become the expectation when really it shouldn't be. It also highlights another thing - Kenny sets the team up to play football and those managers set us up to be hard to break down and to grind out games. The players aren't really there to make that gameplan happen against the better teams so I wouldn't suggest Kenny is a failure but if you want results rather than trying to build a footballing culture he maybe isn't the man for the job.

+1.  Ireland weren't even qualifying for every tournament during the golden era's of the 80s and 90s e.g. euro 92, euro 96 missed the boat and at that stage had players playing at high end premiership teams. 

[seafoid]

A problem is expectations... Trappatoni and O'Neill got to tournaments with mediocre enough teams so this has now become the expectation when really it shouldn't be. It also highlights another thing - Kenny sets the team up to play football and those managers set us up to be hard to break down and to grind out games. The players aren't really there to make that gameplan happen against the better teams so I wouldn't suggest Kenny is a failure but if you want results rather than trying to build a footballing culture he maybe isn't the man for the job.

+1.  Ireland weren't even qualifying for every tournament during the golden era's of the 80s and 90s e.g. euro 92, euro 96 missed the boat and at that stage had players playing at high end premiership teams.

The rankings were higher then, however. We are ranked  53rd by FIFA, in the company of Mali, Greece and Paraguay. That's the driver of pot rankings for Group construction. It's a weighted average of current and past results and the longer it goes on with players repeating mistakes the sooner we'll become a fourth seed, with Greece replacing us.

[weareros]

A problem is expectations... Trappatoni and O'Neill got to tournaments with mediocre enough teams so this has now become the expectation when really it shouldn't be. It also highlights another thing - Kenny sets the team up to play football and those managers set us up to be hard to break down and to grind out games. The players aren't really there to make that gameplan happen against the better teams so I wouldn't suggest Kenny is a failure but if you want results rather than trying to build a footballing culture he maybe isn't the man for the job.

+1.  Ireland weren't even qualifying for every tournament during the golden era's of the 80s and 90s e.g. euro 92, euro 96 missed the boat and at that stage had players playing at high end premiership teams.

There were less spots then. In 1988, only 8 teams qualified so you had to win a difficult group, as Ireland did. It was still 8 in 1992 and Ireland were very unfortunate not to qualify. 24 teams will participate in Euro 24 and it looks like we'll be nowhere near being one of those teams. That's how far we have fallen. Granted with break up of Soviet, there's more teams too and technically the Eastern Europeans were always superior to Ireland. No shame in losing 2-0 to probably best team in world. But Kenny looks very lost and in his own world. A change should be made soon. Also if Ireland/Uk win Euro 28 bid, we should think about having a unified Irish team have automatic qualification. Will never happen of course.

[shark]

A problem is expectations... Trappatoni and O'Neill got to tournaments with mediocre enough teams so this has now become the expectation when really it shouldn't be. It also highlights another thing - Kenny sets the team up to play football and those managers set us up to be hard to break down and to grind out games. The players aren't really there to make that gameplan happen against the better teams so I wouldn't suggest Kenny is a failure but if you want results rather than trying to build a footballing culture he maybe isn't the man for the job.

+1.  Ireland weren't even qualifying for every tournament during the golden era's of the 80s and 90s e.g. euro 92, euro 96 missed the boat and at that stage had players playing at high end premiership teams.

There were less spots then. In 1988, only 8 teams qualified so you had to win a difficult group, as Ireland did. It was still 8 in 1992 and Ireland were very unfortunate not to qualify. 24 teams will participate in Euro 24 and it looks like we'll be nowhere near being one of those teams. That's how far we have fallen. Granted with break up of Soviet, there's more teams too and technically the Eastern Europeans were always superior to Ireland. No shame in losing 2-0 to probably best team in world. But Kenny looks very lost and in his own world. A change should be made soon. Also if Ireland/Uk win Euro 28 bid, we should think about having a unified Irish team have automatic qualification. Will never happen of course.

Unfortunate that our goalkeeper threw 2 in to his own goal against Poland.

[statto]

A problem is expectations... Trappatoni and O'Neill got to tournaments with mediocre enough teams so this has now become the expectation when really it shouldn't be. It also highlights another thing - Kenny sets the team up to play football and those managers set us up to be hard to break down and to grind out games. The players aren't really there to make that gameplan happen against the better teams so I wouldn't suggest Kenny is a failure but if you want results rather than trying to build a footballing culture he maybe isn't the man for the job.

+1.  Ireland weren't even qualifying for every tournament during the golden era's of the 80s and 90s e.g. euro 92, euro 96 missed the boat and at that stage had players playing at high end premiership teams.

There were less spots then. In 1988, only 8 teams qualified so you had to win a difficult group, as Ireland did. It was still 8 in 1992 and Ireland were very unfortunate not to qualify. 24 teams will participate in Euro 24 and it looks like we'll be nowhere near being one of those teams. That's how far we have fallen. Granted with break up of Soviet, there's more teams too and technically the Eastern Europeans were always superior to Ireland. No shame in losing 2-0 to probably best team in world. But Kenny looks very lost and in his own world. A change should be made soon. Also if Ireland/Uk win Euro 28 bid, we should think about having a unified Irish team have automatic qualification. Will never happen of course.

Fair point in relation to how difficult it was to qualify.  Ireland have certainly been dealt a short straw in relation to the group with France and Dutch who are probably in a bracket of 6/7 teams that could genuinely win the thing.