Derry v Kerry AISF Sunday 16th July 4pm

[tbrick18]

Whilst I don't agree with what Sweeney has said on the whole, there's no doubting the Derry v Cork game was dire.
Derry did not play well at all imo.
We played better in a league game against Dublin in Celtic Park.
The game had an air of "we'll win this game no matter how we play" about it from Derry and that's a dangerous mindset.
Cork are a good side, but they looked defeated from early on too so the game just petered out.

The main issue I have with the article is that half the teams in the country are playing the same way.
Galway, Tyrone, Kerry (to a lesser extent but have they ever been more defensive?), even Dublin.
Its the chosen tactic of most top teams now and no doubt over time it will evolve into something else.

Derry this year are more attacking than last year, so we have already evolved. But I also have not doubt that tactics and systems are built to make the most of the players available. If we had a glut of star forwards I'd imagine our tactics would change.
And sure isnt that the role of management, to get the most out of the players available?

[tbrick18]

oh and one more thing.....change the rules?
There hasn't been one decent rule change for the betterment of the game in the last 10 years.
The black card could be a good rule, but it is inconsistently applied and refs seem to not want to use it.
The mark brings nothing to attacking play - it could be argued that it encourages long kickouts I suppose.

The single biggest issue with rules is the inconsistent application of them and a complete inability for players to tackle/shoulder an opponent without it being deemed a free. If every physical contact is going to incur a free kick, then off course teams are going to avoid contact.

Contrast football with the hurling, players are allowed to be physical in the tackle in hurling and can make a shoulder without it being constantly blew up.
If we allow the physical nature to return, perhaps players will not be adverse to tackling or to being tackled which for me add excitement and entertainment as it becomes more of an acceptable risk/reward scenario. Instead of introducing new rules, lets take the controls off a bit and let them at it.

[Derryman forever]

Whilst I don't agree with what Sweeney has said on the whole, there's no doubting the Derry v Cork game was dire.
Derry did not play well at all imo.
We played better in a league game against Dublin in Celtic Park.
The game had an air of "we'll win this game no matter how we play" about it from Derry and that's a dangerous mindset.
Cork are a good side, but they looked defeated from early on too so the game just petered out.

The main issue I have with the article is that half the teams in the country are playing the same way.
Galway, Tyrone, Kerry (to a lesser extent but have they ever been more defensive?), even Dublin.
Its the chosen tactic of most top teams now and no doubt over time it will evolve into something else.

Derry this year are more attacking than last year, so we have already evolved. But I also have not doubt that tactics and systems are built to make the most of the players available. If we had a glut of star forwards I'd imagine our tactics would change.
And sure isnt that the role of management, to get the most out of the players available?

Had Cork win that game the article would have had a much different slant. Its the anti ulster bias that irks me nobody writes these articles about Galway Dublin Roscommon kerry.
Derry have few top forwards unlike Galway, Tyrone  Armagh Mayo Cork.
But playing to tgeir strengths has brought tgem to a 2nd AI final.
That is what good teams do , Mc Williams and Murray were fit and available things will change.

[marty34]

Whilst I don't agree with what Sweeney has said on the whole, there's no doubting the Derry v Cork game was dire.
Derry did not play well at all imo.
We played better in a league game against Dublin in Celtic Park.
The game had an air of "we'll win this game no matter how we play" about it from Derry and that's a dangerous mindset.
Cork are a good side, but they looked defeated from early on too so the game just petered out.

The main issue I have with the article is that half the teams in the country are playing the same way.
Galway, Tyrone, Kerry (to a lesser extent but have they ever been more defensive?), even Dublin.
Its the chosen tactic of most top teams now and no doubt over time it will evolve into something else.

Derry this year are more attacking than last year, so we have already evolved. But I also have not doubt that tactics and systems are built to make the most of the players available. If we had a glut of star forwards I'd imagine our tactics would change.
And sure isnt that the role of management, to get the most out of the players available?

All teams play football like this now. Basketball, sideways passing up the field as the oppositions 15 players retreat/sprint back to their own half and encamp around the D.

Cover space and block off areas until the other team gets a shot off.  Then it's done in reverse...and repeat...and repeat.

Brutal stuff. 

I really hope Derry go this week-end and have a proper cut of Kerry.  Be more expanive and attacking instead of a laboured basketball build up looking for Mc Guigan on the cut/loop.  Even the terminolgy is so basketball like.

Ban the handpass.

[JoG2]

"Derry perhaps cut an even more tragic figure than Cork because they have the ability to play an infinitely more expansive game."

I suppose column inches need to filled and buttons clicked, but this really was a case of Derry just needing to progress to the semi final. Cork were kept at arms length and never ever looked like winning. Cork score a goal, to bring the bare minimum between the sides, Derry drop a gear and score a goal... Same with points when needed.
I think we're in a very good place to give Kerry their full of it, I've said it already but there will only be a kick of the ball  between the teams in this game.
We're never far from the Tyronies thoughts 

[Mario]

Anti Ulster crap and as other posters have alluded to the narrative would be different if it was a different county playing like this. All teams defend the same with nearly all their men inside their 45 that includes Derry, Roscommon ,Cork, Armagh, Kerry, Galway. Dublin press higher than most teams when they are defending but usually still have everyone behind the ball.

Derry never concede the kick out, they attack with all 15 players, they were the first team to get all 6 forwards inside their 21 when attacking. They are quite structured in attack which can be accused as boring but there are elements of their attacking game that is more adventurous than anyone. Sick listening to lazy analysis that they are just a blanket defence like Donegal 2011 or Mickey Harte's 2017 Tyrone.

[imtommygunn]

Also on that note it's lazy analysis about Donegal by most people as they played fantastic football in 2012 and everyone just keeps referring to 2011. 2014 Kerry killed the AI final not Donegal!

[tbrick18]

Anti Ulster crap and as other posters have alluded to the narrative would be different if it was a different county playing like this. All teams defend the same with nearly all their men inside their 45 that includes Derry, Roscommon ,Cork, Armagh, Kerry, Galway. Dublin press higher than most teams when they are defending but usually still have everyone behind the ball.

Derry never concede the kick out, they attack with all 15 players, they were the first team to get all 6 forwards inside their 21 when attacking. They are quite structured in attack which can be accused as boring but there are elements of their attacking game that is more adventurous than anyone. Sick listening to lazy analysis that they are just a blanket defence like Donegal 2011 or Mickey Harte's 2017 Tyrone.

I dont mind being misunderstood, can be to our advantage.
I late great Eamon Coleman said it best, "yous bais know nathin about football". Some these analysts would fall into that category.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

[shark]

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

Exactly. Should be ignored. He's a talented writer but hasn't a clue what he's looking at. All these publications are interested in now is clicks for ad money. He serves that purpose.

[Derryman forever]

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

None of which refutes anything I said.

I said Derry pull 15 men inside the defensive 45 more than any of the teams in the quarter finals. THIS is the main cause of teams passing the ball laterally for prolonged periods, surely you realise this? Teams haven't decided to hold the ball for no reason when behind or early in a game.

[NotedObserver]

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

Exactly. Tyrone just don't have the line breakers anymore. Michael mckernan is their best and did break a line in first half and kicked a score. Tyrone were v wasteful with posesion and played into Kerry hands as took the short kick out which made it impossible to get quick ball to mccurry canavans. Derry are much better at playing against a full blanket defence as the way they place forces this type of game. I expect a tight game for a while and will be interesting to see what way it goes after that

[Blowitupref]

Also on that note it's lazy analysis about Donegal by most people as they played fantastic football in 2012 and everyone just keeps referring to 2011. 2014 Kerry killed the AI final not Donegal!

Agreed lazy analysis and for some others short term memory loss.

[JoG2]

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

None of which refutes anything I said.

I said Derry pull 15 men inside the defensive 45 more than any of the teams in the quarter finals. THIS is the main cause of teams passing the ball laterally for prolonged periods, surely you realise this? Teams haven't decided to hold the ball for no reason when behind or early in a game.

Maybe what Derry should do, as a planned tactic is to choke tackle, pull and block the likes of the O'Sullivans, Morley, White, O'Connor so they can't build up any speed and momentum from the back, share out the yellow cards and hope McQuillan doesn't produce the yellows too early (because after all it is an AI semi)... This tactic has certainly worked for some teams for years.. A no brainer really, why would you allow a team the run on you??