Rugby world cup 2015

[AZOffaly]

Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.

I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.

Not so sure about earning the right to go wide, but you certainly have to set the tone for the game, and from minute 1 Argentina were  more physical and that allows you to do whatever the hell you like. They just blew our lads off the ball, and every tackle or ruck, the momentum was towards our goal, even when we had the ball in hand.

That's a serious issue to have!

[INDIANA]

Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.

I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.

But that's the way they play in the Rugby Championship. What I couldn't get over was why our defence was aligned for a kick chase game against a team that run the ball.

It was bizarre.

[johnneycool]

Whilst watching the All blacks in the line for the anthems on Saturday evening my wife asked me where the fat ones who push in the scrum were and it was only then it struck me how lean they are in general, no real bulky lads on that team at all and when they played against a disheveled France, the speed and intensity of their play blew the French away. Their handling, offlaoding, even of second and third choice forwards would put many backs in the 6N's to shame.
They avoided the 'set piece' so loved by the 6N teams like a plague, quick throw ins, scrum ball is in and out with minimum fuss, not many mauls either and even at that, they held their own on the French put in, but absolutely creamed the French in open play.
They were a joy to behold, but you may sense that SA will try to get them into an arm wrestle in a slow moving game, but it'll be hard to see anything other than a New Zealand win.

As for Ireland, the Pumas were clearly the better team and initially opened Ireland up at will quickly going 17 points up. In all fairness to the Irish they battled their way back into the game and their period of dominance didn't get the points it deserved and they'd run out of steam when Madigan missed the kick to bring it to 23 each. After that the energy levels were still with the Pumas who were very fortunate to have 15 still on the field, but overall they had more about them, once again their handling, offloading far superior to Irelands.
Darcy in a recent article suggested that offloading is not something young rugby players in Ireland are coached or encouraged to do, but he reckons that's changing, so we're already a few years behind these other teams in this regard.

Scots were very unlucky and gave it a right go and probably deserved a semi-final spot, but for that little bit of wit when it mattered most even if the Scottish prop was harshly done for being offside at the end with the ball coming off the Aussie before it got to him. Should never have got to that. All they had to do was secure the line out and play out the clock!!

What I always wondered about was the end of season trips to the Southern Hemisphere, we don't seem to take them serious (apart from Clive Woodwards England) as they just wee glorified holidays and we regularly get tanked, but somehow we read everything into their equivalents in November when the  southern hemisphere teams are at the end of their season.
Surely if Ireland are serious about competing with the best, the time to prove it is in June and July in NZ, Australia and South Africa!!

[AZOffaly]

Whilst watching the All blacks in the line for the anthems on Saturday evening my wife asked me where the fat ones who push in the scrum were and it was only then it struck me how lean they are in general, no real bulky lads on that team at all and when they played against a disheveled France, the speed and intensity of their play blew the French away. Their handling, offlaoding, even of second and third choice forwards would put many backs in the 6N's to shame.
They avoided the 'set piece' so loved by the 6N teams like a plague, quick throw ins, scrum ball is in and out with minimum fuss, not many mauls either and even at that, they held their own on the French put in, but absolutely creamed the French in open play.
They were a joy to behold, but you may sense that SA will try to get them into an arm wrestle in a slow moving game, but it'll be hard to see anything other than a New Zealand win.

As for Ireland, the Pumas were clearly the better team and initially opened Ireland up at will quickly going 17 points up. In all fairness to the Irish they battled their way back into the game and their period of dominance didn't get the points it deserved and they'd run out of steam when Madigan missed the kick to bring it to 23 each. After that the energy levels were still with the Pumas who were very fortunate to have 15 still on the field, but overall they had more about them, once again their handling, offloading far superior to Irelands.
Darcy in a recent article suggested that offloading is not something young rugby players in Ireland are coached or encouraged to do, but he reckons that's changing, so we're already a few years behind these other teams in this regard.

Scots were very unlucky and gave it a right go and probably deserved a semi-final spot, but for that little bit of wit when it mattered most even if the Scottish prop was harshly done for being offside at the end with the ball coming off the Aussie before it got to him. Should never have got to that. All they had to do was secure the line out and play out the clock!!

What I always wondered about was the end of season trips to the Southern Hemisphere, we don't seem to take them serious (apart from Clive Woodwards England) as they just wee glorified holidays and we regularly get tanked, but somehow we read everything into their equivalents in November when the  southern hemisphere teams are at the end of their season.
Surely if Ireland are serious about competing with the best, the time to prove it is in June and July in NZ, Australia and South Africa!!

I remarked on that the first time I saw them at this world cup. I think I posted it here as well. And yet, I think the All Blacks were actually heavier in the pack than the French. Lean and Heavy versus just bulk I suppose. They certainly play at pace, and I'd say that's the body shape they need to do that.

[dferg]

The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile.  Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part.  They looked like they were dead on there feet.

[JoG2]

The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile.  Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part.  They looked like they were dead on there feet.

are you now including Argentina ?

[INDIANA]

The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile.  Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part.  They looked like they were dead on there feet.

they play a different game. They seek space- we seek contact.

Less energy wasted because they spend less time tackling. However you have to be fitter to play their game. You have to be bulkier to play ours. But as we've seen bulk doesn't equate to power

And by "we" I mean the Northern Hemisphere.

[dferg]

The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile.  Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part.  They looked like they were dead on there feet.

are you now including Argentina ?

Yes I definitely underestimated them, though I did say about 2 weeks ago that the winner looked like it would come from the Southern Hemisphere based on the first few games

Hard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.

[Bord na Mona man]

Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.

I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.

Not so sure about earning the right to go wide, but you certainly have to set the tone for the game, and from minute 1 Argentina were  more physical and that allows you to do whatever the hell you like. They just blew our lads off the ball, and every tackle or ruck, the momentum was towards our goal, even when we had the ball in hand.

That's a serious issue to have!

Absolutely, Ireland were falling off tackles, but this was mainly down to the speed at which Argentina were shifting the focus of the game. Against 6 nations teams you'd expect narrower bosh for the opening exchanges. I think Ireland were like the boxer who needs to get hit before he realises he's in the fight.

I still reckon that if Sexton was there Ireland would probably have sent the Argentinian wide players back into corners a lot more retrieving kicks. With Madigan there was little chance of pinning them back. The only deep kick I remember him trying went out on the full.

[JoG2]

The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile.  Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part.  They looked like they were dead on there feet.

are you now including Argentina ?

Yes I definitely underestimated them, though I did say about 2 weeks ago that the winner looked like it would come from the Southern Hemisphere based on the first few games

Hard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.

you called it ! I'd love to see the Puma's get to the final (which they have a great chance of doing) and really put it up to NZ. Though SA could cause a shock, and it would be a fairly major shock. Its not beyond the realms.

[deiseach]

Everything AZ is saying is reasonable in itself, but I think Dave Hannigan nailed the long-term problem on Twitter:

In terms of overinflated expectations matched by failure to deliver in major tournaments, Irish rugby starting to resemble English soccer

Harsh, but fair. This is the eighth World Cup and we haven't won a single knockout game. And the thing is, I don't know the question to ask, let alone the answer. The Tri Nations/Rugby Championship is clearly a superior competition - this is not news - but the Six Nations is at the heart of rugby in these islands. The moment you start picking at it, you run the risk of the whole thing unravelling. The mediocrity, for the want of a less inflammatory term, is built-in.

Come on Argentina.

[AZOffaly]

Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.

I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.

Not so sure about earning the right to go wide, but you certainly have to set the tone for the game, and from minute 1 Argentina were  more physical and that allows you to do whatever the hell you like. They just blew our lads off the ball, and every tackle or ruck, the momentum was towards our goal, even when we had the ball in hand.

That's a serious issue to have!

Absolutely, Ireland were falling off tackles, but this was mainly down to the speed at which Argentina were shifting the focus of the game. Against 6 nations teams you'd expect narrower bosh for the opening exchanges. I think Ireland were like the boxer who needs to get hit before he realises he's in the fight.

I still reckon that if Sexton was there Ireland would probably have sent the Argentinian wide players back into corners a lot more retrieving kicks. With Madigan there was little chance of pinning them back. The only deep kick I remember him trying went out on the full.

Falling off tackles is one thing, but being murdered at our rucks, and their rucks was another as well. I just think it was a cumulative effect of the intensity they had, and we didn't.

[Maroon Manc]

Is the timing of the Rugby Championship and 6 nations an advantage to the southern hemisphere teams?

I wouldn't know too much about Rugby so should the Argie no 3 have seen red for that tackle?

[dferg]

Ireland is a small island with only have 3 1/2 teams to pick from and a large part of the population don't play rugby so it's hard to get to the level of teams like the All Blacks but in the NH the emphasis seems to be on eating a few extra steaks so that players bulk up then both teams charge at each other, the strongest team then generally wins.  The SH teams are at least equally based on agility.  It's ok having the ability to drive a guy back if he runs straight at you but if you can't catch him you can't tackle him.  There is not enough players like Jason Robinson in the northern hemisphere that can cut a team open using there agility and pace.  I think the Foley tries against England showed the difference in the type of players the southern hemisphere have.

[AZOffaly]

And we don't trust those sort of guys. Zebo was probably lucky to make the squad, and was nowhere near the team for the big games.