Hastings Cup 2016 - Now back to normal

[Westside]

Indiana - leaving the silly slagging aside. I dont get your point on the Hastings cup contributing to burn out. Now if you made the case of  the U21 grade contributing as a whole I could understand that but the Hastings cup you will need to explain to me. For example, on the weekend of the 5th Cavan will play their first game. I've no doubt that Dublin or any other team not in the tournament will be training or maybe playing an in house game that same weekend. Can you elaborate on your point please?

It's extra matches over-worked players don't need to play in. 90% of last year's Dublin u21 squad were playing Sigerson Football.

People don't seem to realise that these guys are serving a number of teams and you can't have any joined up thinking between them playing mickey mouse challenge matches for 2-3 different teams on poor pitches in poor weather conditions when every manager is insisting these games are crucial in a team's preparation.

Throw in exams, college course-work etc. You don't want to be travelling half the country every weekend with a bunch of tired players playing on heavy pitches in poor weather conditions  when they already have to serve their University during the week. that's a recipe for disaster in my view.

Dublin target specific weekends for challenge games which is very few in number and largely rely on in house games. Any game versus the likes of Vincent's, Ballymun senior football team will be the equal of any u21 team in the country. So we don't have to travel any distance for it.

I mean who actually remembers who wins the Hastings Cup at the end of the year? The way it's spoken about here by the Roscommon lads you'd swear it was the AI Championship. Coming from a Div 3 Team who can't win a Connacht Senior Championship I find that extraordinary.

u21 is on its last legs. Its actually an imposition for a lot of our u21 players because it denies them the chance to play in the NFL for the senior side. By the time April comes round its too late and they'll be waiting till next year to get a chance.

Still don't follow. When Cavan play on the weekend on the 6th are you saying Dublin will be taking a break and doing nothing? Seems to me Cavan will be running around a field somewhere and Dublin will be doing the same somewhere else. Just because Cavan's game is part of a tournament it make no difference in terms of demands on young players. I hear all your points but to me they are more points against the U21 grade in general rather than the Hastings Cup in particular.

And no, no one really cares who wins the Hastings cup at the end of the year but it is interesting to compare the teams that have done well in it with the teams who do well in the provincial U21s.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

Has it got to do with fixing all the Dublin games in the same location regardless of who the opposition is?..

Also can I ask how you can keep calling the games Mickey Mouse Challenges etc. despite never having been at a game?

[INDIANA]

A mickey mouse competition.

Does the sucessful team win a trip to Disney land? for example Wicklow,Clare might only get one U-21 championship game surely a competition like this with three extra competitive games should help in their development for future senior players.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

I doubt that. From one U-21 All Ireland to three in five years, i'd say a more focused effort and more money spent on this grade has delivered more success for Dublin.

3 u21 challenge games will turn an u21 into a senior- hmmmm- I'll leave that one go.

There isn't a more focused effort at u21 level. Dessie would be lucky to see his senior panelists at training the week of a championship game

[INDIANA]

Indiana - leaving the silly slagging aside. I dont get your point on the Hastings cup contributing to burn out. Now if you made the case of  the U21 grade contributing as a whole I could understand that but the Hastings cup you will need to explain to me. For example, on the weekend of the 5th Cavan will play their first game. I've no doubt that Dublin or any other team not in the tournament will be training or maybe playing an in house game that same weekend. Can you elaborate on your point please?

It's extra matches over-worked players don't need to play in. 90% of last year's Dublin u21 squad were playing Sigerson Football.

People don't seem to realise that these guys are serving a number of teams and you can't have any joined up thinking between them playing mickey mouse challenge matches for 2-3 different teams on poor pitches in poor weather conditions when every manager is insisting these games are crucial in a team's preparation.

Throw in exams, college course-work etc. You don't want to be travelling half the country every weekend with a bunch of tired players playing on heavy pitches in poor weather conditions  when they already have to serve their University during the week. that's a recipe for disaster in my view.

Dublin target specific weekends for challenge games which is very few in number and largely rely on in house games. Any game versus the likes of Vincent's, Ballymun senior football team will be the equal of any u21 team in the country. So we don't have to travel any distance for it.

I mean who actually remembers who wins the Hastings Cup at the end of the year? The way it's spoken about here by the Roscommon lads you'd swear it was the AI Championship. Coming from a Div 3 Team who can't win a Connacht Senior Championship I find that extraordinary.

u21 is on its last legs. Its actually an imposition for a lot of our u21 players because it denies them the chance to play in the NFL for the senior side. By the time April comes round its too late and they'll be waiting till next year to get a chance.

Still don't follow. When Cavan play on the weekend on the 6th are you saying Dublin will be taking a break and doing nothing? Seems to me Cavan will be running around a field somewhere and Dublin will be doing the same somewhere else. Just because Cavan's game is part of a tournament it make no difference in terms of demands on young players. I hear all your points but to me they are more points against the U21 grade in general rather than the Hastings Cup in particular.

And no, no one really cares who wins the Hastings cup at the end of the year but it is interesting to compare the teams that have done well in it with the teams who do well in the provincial U21s.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

Has it got to do with fixing all the Dublin games in the same location regardless of who the opposition is?..

Also can I ask how you can keep calling the games Mickey Mouse Challenges etc. despite never having been at a game?

Because its a Mickey Mouse competiiton where half the teams are only at half strength.

I'm involved at Sigerson Level so i'm aware of how seriously its taken. For some counties like Roscommon and Cavan its like winning an AI title. For others they use it for giving extended panelists games.

Probably why the winners of the competition rarely come from this.

[Captain Obvious]

A mickey mouse competition.

Does the sucessful team win a trip to Disney land? for example Wicklow,Clare might only get one U-21 championship game surely a competition like this with three extra competitive games should help in their development for future senior players.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

I doubt that. From one U-21 All Ireland to three in five years, i'd say a more focused effort and more money spent on this grade has delivered more success for Dublin.

3 u21 challenge games will turn an u21 into a senior- hmmmm- I'll leave that one go.

There isn't a more focused effort at u21 level. Dessie would be lucky to see his senior panelists at training the week of a championship game

Hmm the sudden improvement for Dublin at this grade would say different. I would say these three competitive games would be more of benefit than thirty challenge games.

[ross4life]

I mean who actually remembers who wins the Hastings Cup at the end of the year? The way it's spoken about here by the Roscommon lads you'd swear it was the AI Championship. Coming from a Div 3 Team who can't win a Connacht Senior Championship I find that extraordinary.

i can remember the last ten winners but then again my memory on competitions like this would be better than most. which Roscommon lads are talking it up like the AI championship? we are div 2 team and won Connacht senior title in 2010. enough of the bs when trying to put a point across INDIANA.

Because its a Mickey Mouse competiiton where half the teams are only at half strength.

I'm involved at Sigerson Level so i'm aware of how seriously its taken. For some counties like Roscommon and Cavan its like winning an AI title. For others they use it for giving extended panelists games.

Are you really this misinformed or taking the piss? both ourselves and Cavan used our extended panels in games as everyone else does. You can read back on the posts in this thread for proof! if you are too lazy to read back i can tell you we used 35 players in this competition this year & in the Hastings cup final against Meath the likes of D Murtagh,C Daly,M Nally,D Smith played no part all senior panelists i might add.

the competition is mostly used to find which lads are likely or unlikely to make the step up.

u21 is on its last legs.

Now i find that extraordinary comment. I have been following the u-21 grade for a number of decades now it is far from on its last legs, the crowds that goes to games and general interest (outside of Dublin) is as high as its ever been. I can't say the same about the Sigerson cup poor crowds lack of interest likewise with the FBD Connacht league & Railway cup.

[INDIANA]

A mickey mouse competition.

Does the sucessful team win a trip to Disney land? for example Wicklow,Clare might only get one U-21 championship game surely a competition like this with three extra competitive games should help in their development for future senior players.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

I doubt that. From one U-21 All Ireland to three in five years, i'd say a more focused effort and more money spent on this grade has delivered more success for Dublin.

3 u21 challenge games will turn an u21 into a senior- hmmmm- I'll leave that one go.

There isn't a more focused effort at u21 level. Dessie would be lucky to see his senior panelists at training the week of a championship game

Hmm the sudden improvement for Dublin at this grade would say different. I would say these three competitive games would be more of benefit than thirty challenge games.

I would say Dublin's u21 championship side will get one full practice game prior to the championship.

[Syferus]

A mickey mouse competition.

Does the sucessful team win a trip to Disney land? for example Wicklow,Clare might only get one U-21 championship game surely a competition like this with three extra competitive games should help in their development for future senior players.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

I doubt that. From one U-21 All Ireland to three in five years, i'd say a more focused effort and more money spent on this grade has delivered more success for Dublin.

3 u21 challenge games will turn an u21 into a senior- hmmmm- I'll leave that one go.

There isn't a more focused effort at u21 level. Dessie would be lucky to see his senior panelists at training the week of a championship game

Hmm the sudden improvement for Dublin at this grade would say different. I would say these three competitive games would be more of benefit than thirty challenge games.

I would say Dublin's u21 championship side will get one full practice game prior to the championship.

As in with the full "First Team(TM)" training? How many other 'practice' matches will they have played?

You'd swear every other county bar Dublin had their senior panelists playing every U21 match under the sun.

[INDIANA]

I mean who actually remembers who wins the Hastings Cup at the end of the year? The way it's spoken about here by the Roscommon lads you'd swear it was the AI Championship. Coming from a Div 3 Team who can't win a Connacht Senior Championship I find that extraordinary.

i can remember the last ten winners but then again my memory on competitions like this would be better than most. which Roscommon lads are talking it up like the AI championship? we are div 2 team and won Connacht senior title in 2010. enough of the bs when trying to put a point across INDIANA.

Because its a Mickey Mouse competiiton where half the teams are only at half strength.

I'm involved at Sigerson Level so i'm aware of how seriously its taken. For some counties like Roscommon and Cavan its like winning an AI title. For others they use it for giving extended panelists games.

Are you really this misinformed or taking the piss? both ourselves and Cavan used our extended panels in games as everyone else does. You can read back on the posts in this thread for proof! if you are too lazy to read back i can tell you we used 35 players in this competition this year & in the Hastings cup final against Meath the likes of D Murtagh,C Daly,M Nally,D Smith played no part all senior panelists i might add.

the competition is mostly used to find which lads are likely or unlikely to make the step up.

u21 is on its last legs.

Now i find that extraordinary comment. I have been following the u-21 grade for a number of decades now it is far from on its last legs, the crowds that goes to games and general interest (outside of Dublin) is as high as its ever been. I can't say the same about the Sigerson cup poor crowds lack of interest likewise with the FBD Connacht league & Railway cup.

On point 1 with all due respect one connacht title at senior level is a really poor return when you consider some of your underage players talent and having a club side like Brigis around.. Really poor. I was surprised you didn't make a change at senior level. No point in sugar coating either that's the bottom line.

Point 2- You've made my point for me. Its a challenge game circuit- and a poor one at that.

Point 3- Sigerson is a better standard in my view and people from weaker counties playing with the best in the country for a couple of months can make serious improvements in their game.

Lad like Conor Mc Graynor from Wicklow who is one of DCU's strike forwards is unrecognisable from the gangly awakward kid tha walked in the gates a couple of years. He got training at a level he will never attain with the current Wicklow team.

My view overall it's what best suits the player and in my view a lot of the subsidiary competitions have to go. The Sigerson League and the Hastings Cup being two.

[INDIANA]

A mickey mouse competition.

Does the sucessful team win a trip to Disney land? for example Wicklow,Clare might only get one U-21 championship game surely a competition like this with three extra competitive games should help in their development for future senior players.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

I doubt that. From one U-21 All Ireland to three in five years, i'd say a more focused effort and more money spent on this grade has delivered more success for Dublin.

3 u21 challenge games will turn an u21 into a senior- hmmmm- I'll leave that one go.

There isn't a more focused effort at u21 level. Dessie would be lucky to see his senior panelists at training the week of a championship game

Hmm the sudden improvement for Dublin at this grade would say different. I would say these three competitive games would be more of benefit than thirty challenge games.

I would say Dublin's u21 championship side will get one full practice game prior to the championship.

As in with the full "First Team(TM)" training? How many other 'practice' matches will they have played?

You'd swear every other county bar Dublin had their senior panelists playing every U21 match under the sun.

Read my lips. The full Dublin u21 side that started the first round of the Leinster championship last year got not one practice game beforehand. Not one. They trained twice together as a squad beforehand. And that was the week of the game.
Any practice games were with weakened sides and they largely relied on in -house games besides that. Senior panelists didn't join them till the week of the game. That was two thirds of the starting 15 came straight into the side

[Itchy]

The challenge in Leinster is so crap that most Hastings cup games would be more competitive. Dublin have there challenge games all linef up for them. Then they have the money, the venues and the referee s sown up too. Not to mention croke park wetting themselves with excitement. Pity few of the fans wouldn't show up mind you.

[ross4life]

On point 1 with all due respect one connacht title at senior level is a really poor return when you consider some of your underage players talent and having a club side like Brigis around.. Really poor. I was surprised you didn't make a change at senior level. No point in sugar coating either that's the bottom line.

Jaysus what do you make of Galway so whom have won as many U-21 All Irelands as Dublin but havent won a Connacht senior title since 2008. You must consider who has been winning all the Connacht senior titles since, Mayo who are a top 3 side in Ireland & for the record in 2 of our last 3 Connacht senior games we got within one score of them.

As for the Brigids point how much did Carlow win when Eire Og were the best club side in Leinster? you need more than one really good club team to help out the county side, we now have a few good club sides on the rise so that improvement should come & one of those sides has so much potential that one of your own county men has chosen to manage here.

Point 2- You've made my point for me. Its a challenge game circuit- and a poor one at that.

Your point is mostly based on burnout & your dislike for this competition you know little about. I corrected you on your misinformed information. How would you know if its poor or not i doubt you attended any Hastings cup game? The NFL is also used for extended panelists which you could say is the challenges before the championship, TBH i think NFL needs to be freshen up again & the hastings cup format is something the HQ could look at.

Point 3- Sigerson is a better standard in my view and people from weaker counties playing with the best in the country for a couple of months can make serious improvements in their game.

Simliar standard IMO & i know full well on both competitions as many Rossies are involved in both. As been said already the Sigerson cup should probably be played in November or December instead of Feb but will this ever come into place though?

[macdanger2]

A mickey mouse competition.

Does the sucessful team win a trip to Disney land? for example Wicklow,Clare might only get one U-21 championship game surely a competition like this with three extra competitive games should help in their development for future senior players.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

I doubt that. From one U-21 All Ireland to three in five years, i'd say a more focused effort and more money spent on this grade has delivered more success for Dublin.

3 u21 challenge games will turn an u21 into a senior- hmmmm- I'll leave that one go.

There isn't a more focused effort at u21 level. Dessie would be lucky to see his senior panelists at training the week of a championship game

Hmm the sudden improvement for Dublin at this grade would say different. I would say these three competitive games would be more of benefit than thirty challenge games.

I would say Dublin's u21 championship side will get one full practice game prior to the championship.

As in with the full "First Team(TM)" training? How many other 'practice' matches will they have played?

You'd swear every other county bar Dublin had their senior panelists playing every U21 match under the sun.

Read my lips. The full Dublin u21 side that started the first round of the Leinster championship last year got not one practice game beforehand. Not one. They trained twice together as a squad beforehand. And that was the week of the game.
Any practice games were with weakened sides and they largely relied on in -house games besides that. Senior panelists didn't join them till the week of the game. That was two thirds of the starting 15 came straight into the side

So how would these games contribute to player burnout if only fringe players participate? Surely it's an opportunity for guys who are borderline to get a shot??

[INDIANA]

A mickey mouse competition.

Does the sucessful team win a trip to Disney land? for example Wicklow,Clare might only get one U-21 championship game surely a competition like this with three extra competitive games should help in their development for future senior players.

I'd say Dublin do less then 50% of the amount of collective training then others at this level.  Each to their own but it's a template that's working and it's nothing to do with funding either.

I doubt that. From one U-21 All Ireland to three in five years, i'd say a more focused effort and more money spent on this grade has delivered more success for Dublin.

3 u21 challenge games will turn an u21 into a senior- hmmmm- I'll leave that one go.

There isn't a more focused effort at u21 level. Dessie would be lucky to see his senior panelists at training the week of a championship game

Hmm the sudden improvement for Dublin at this grade would say different. I would say these three competitive games would be more of benefit than thirty challenge games.

I would say Dublin's u21 championship side will get one full practice game prior to the championship.

As in with the full "First Team(TM)" training? How many other 'practice' matches will they have played?

You'd swear every other county bar Dublin had their senior panelists playing every U21 match under the sun.

Read my lips. The full Dublin u21 side that started the first round of the Leinster championship last year got not one practice game beforehand. Not one. They trained twice together as a squad beforehand. And that was the week of the game.
Any practice games were with weakened sides and they largely relied on in -house games besides that. Senior panelists didn't join them till the week of the game. That was two thirds of the starting 15 came straight into the side

So how would these games contribute to player burnout if only fringe players participate? Surely it's an opportunity for guys who are borderline to get a shot??

Because its the same pool of players who are also playing university games, club games and having to build their bodies up to play Gaelic Football in the modern era. Quite often it's us who end up giving the players time off. I'm not even going to get into some of the conversations I've had with some of the knuckle head inter county managers out there who flog players into the ground.

[INDIANA]

On point 1 with all due respect one connacht title at senior level is a really poor return when you consider some of your underage players talent and having a club side like Brigis around.. Really poor. I was surprised you didn't make a change at senior level. No point in sugar coating either that's the bottom line.

Jaysus what do you make of Galway so whom have won as many U-21 All Irelands as Dublin but havent won a Connacht senior title since 2008. You must consider who has been winning all the Connacht senior titles since, Mayo who are a top 3 side in Ireland & for the record in 2 of our last 3 Connacht senior games we got within one score of them.

As for the Brigids point how much did Carlow win when Eire Og were the best club side in Leinster? you need more than one really good club team to help out the county side, we now have a few good club sides on the rise so that improvement should come & one of those sides has so much potential that one of your own county men has chosen to manage here.

Point 2- You've made my point for me. Its a challenge game circuit- and a poor one at that.

Your point is mostly based on burnout & your dislike for this competition you know little about. I corrected you on your misinformed information. How would you know if its poor or not i doubt you attended any Hastings cup game? The NFL is also used for extended panelists which you could say is the challenges before the championship, TBH i think NFL needs to be freshen up again & the hastings cup format is something the HQ could look at.

Point 3- Sigerson is a better standard in my view and people from weaker counties playing with the best in the country for a couple of months can make serious improvements in their game.

Simliar standard IMO & i know full well on both competitions as many Rossies are involved in both. As been said already the Sigerson cup should probably be played in November or December instead of Feb but will this ever come into place though?

The Sigerson Cup can't be moved because counties insist on not playing club competiitons in the summer therefore they don't finish till November. Players have to get some time off as well. So they'd clash.

Quite possible in 10 years the Sigerson Cup won't exist any longer because of county managers. A lot of whom really haven't  a clue how to train teams properly.

But it's getting too hard to get players released and if it gets to the stage that it's becoming too much for players I'd prefer to see it go rather than cause anymore damage to them.

However these subsidiary competitions in my view won't last much longer either. Players are now finished their best football at county level  at 28 because of the workload involved. A lot of whom have their best football played by age 23. There is only so many years the human body can train and play 12 months of the year like the current crew of 18-23 olds can.

But travelling 100 miles to play challenge matches having already played 2 games that week and then having to travel another 50 miles back to college isn't a condusive way for any sportsman to live IMO.

[macdanger2]

Maybe scrap the Sigerson so, does anyone really care about it?