All-Ireland Final, September 18th, 2016 - Dublin v Mayo

[Syferus]

I'd like to see Mayo going hammer and tongs right from the start and get an early lead to ask some questions from Dublin. Kerry could have been dead and buried had Dublin not kicked so many wides.
Dublin answered a lot of questions against Kerry, especially when 3 down going into the last 10 mins.
To have any chance I think Mayo have to score goals and not give Dublin easy possession from kickouts.

There's no way Mayo can beat Dublin by playing football. It has to be pure dirt.

If Keegan can work Desperate Dan into a sweat early and take an elbow or fist to the face and get him sent off again then I might have to reconsider Mayo having no chance.

[The Aristocrat]

Any truth in the rumour Jim McGuinness is assisting the Mayo team on the run up to the final?

[ballinaman]

Any truth in the rumour Jim McGuinness is assisting the Mayo team on the run up to the final?

They've had a frank discussion with each other and both of them are keen on getting back into their county jerseys.

In all seriousness, whether he is or isn't...the main thing is to make Dublin believe he is.

[heffo]

Any truth in the rumour Jim McGuinness is assisting the Mayo team on the run up to the final?

He's been with them since the start of last week

[iorras]

I'd be worried if Jim Mc was involved, one of my reasons for cautious optimism about the final was that our management team seem to have very clear tactical ideas on how to beat teams. Now I have no problem with taking help wherever it might come from if it helps us win, but if they need the help of Jim wouldn't that kinda mean they are not so sure of themselves? Jim won playing with a style of play that took a couple of years to put in place. It wasn't some tactical masterclass on the day, it was about a rigorous adherence to a structure developed over many days.
In fact I believe if Mayos line hadn't been so slow to react to the high ball into Murphy tactic in the 2012 final, Jim mightn't have that celtic cross to his name. That ball was hit 3 or 4 times before it actually worked, should have started alarm bells ringing not to mind even before the game when it was fairly obvious Donegal were going to try it at some stage.
It wouldn't take a management genius at that stage to say hit Mayo with high ball early in the final and see what happens.
Granted it was quality high ball, and Murphy is a quality player, but still, fairly obvious.

[Jinxy]

Any truth in the rumour Jim McGuinness is assisting the Mayo team on the run up to the final?

He's been with them since the start of last week

They're going to put him in goals.

[ballinaman]

Any truth in the rumour Jim McGuinness is assisting the Mayo team on the run up to the final?

He's been with them since the start of last week

They're going to put him in goals.

Sensible. He wouldn't have the legs for Fenton.

[seafoid]

I'd be worried if Jim Mc was involved, one of my reasons for cautious optimism about the final was that our management team seem to have very clear tactical ideas on how to beat teams. Now I have no problem with taking help wherever it might come from if it helps us win, but if they need the help of Jim wouldn't that kinda mean they are not so sure of themselves? Jim won playing with a style of play that took a couple of years to put in place. It wasn't some tactical masterclass on the day, it was about a rigorous adherence to a structure developed over many days.
In fact I believe if Mayos line hadn't been so slow to react to the high ball into Murphy tactic in the 2012 final, Jim mightn't have that celtic cross to his name. That ball was hit 3 or 4 times before it actually worked, should have started alarm bells ringing not to mind even before the game when it was fairly obvious Donegal were going to try it at some stage.
It wouldn't take a management genius at that stage to say hit Mayo with high ball early in the final and see what happens.
Granted it was quality high ball, and Murphy is a quality player, but still, fairly obvious.

He wrote an article in the IT back in May

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-rivals-will-need-new-game-plan-to-beat-dublin-1.2641373
"Mayo, for all the criticism they have shipped, have demonstrated a remarkable ability to play well under a tremendous weight of expectation. I feel they didn't quite have the marquee forwards and were a bit too open at the back to actually win the Sam Maguire in the last five years.
But their self-belief is clearly massive. They are so close. The Mayo seniors need to take inspiration from the U-21 team who seem to have achieved the balance between defence and attack. That U-21 team made themselves hard to beat. They competed at centrefield and let the ball in quickly to their forwards. No one failed to celebrate at the end of the final because they were defensive in orientation. They didn't relinquish the Mayo values and still played an expansive game.
I believe Mayo have the potential to beat Dublin in an All-Ireland final. But it remains to be seen if they will take the action required to make that happen.
Sweeper system
Look at what has gone on for the past few of summers. Mayo have gone in to play Dublin at their own game. Clearly, Dublin have better forwards than Mayo. So over the course of 70 minutes, Mayo lose the game and exit the championship. That lesson has been lost on them. Dublin, in contrast, shifted from 2014 and put their sweeper system in place and shored things up at the back. But the rest of their approach stayed the same.
So are the teams trying to beat Dublin this summer going to to do the smart thing that is required to actually beat Dublin?
Or are they just going to keep on doing what they have done? I've watched Mayo in Connacht and in the All-Ireland series and I have very, very rarely seen a change in style. But they need to go somewhere new in order to take this Dublin team down.
Give Dublin the respect they deserve; fine-tune a very, very detailed game plan based on what Dublin are about. Then bring your strengths. Be cognisant of the fact that Dublin have six top quality forwards; that Stephen Cluxton brings what he brings; that they have a sweeper system. So what is the best way to get around that? You can't just go in with a vague notion that you are good enough to beat this team. You need a game plan to get around Cian O'Sullivan.
You need a game plan to take advantage of the fact that their best full back in years is at the other end of the planet. You need specific strategic thinking to cope with their strengths – and their weaknesses. If Mayo do make that jump in approach and tactically, then it becomes a 50-50 game.
But the big question is whether Mayo or any other team is planning their championship campaign with that intent right now. If not, then I feel that Dublin will win the All-Ireland again. Just because they can be beaten doesn't mean they will be"


I bet he contacted them.

[Fuzzman]

Iorras, JmG is a sports psychologist and a very intelligent guy and I admire the Mayo management team for having the balls to be big enough to invite him in to get his opinions and thoughts. Of course they don't need to heed him but he is quite the tactical genius in my eyes and is the man who last plotted the downfall of Dublin. That doesn't mean he will do it again but sometimes it just needs something extra to push a team over the line. Mickey Harte brought that to Tyrone in 2003 and so to me it shows Mayo are trying their best to leave no stone uncovered.

If nothing else it causes a bit of concern within the Dublin set up and has them talking about it. You saw how Kerry came up with the idea of pushing 12 men up on Cluxton's kickout and how well that worked so if Mayo can some up with something to create a bit of panic then maybe Mayo will have a chance. McGuinness sees things in games earlier than a lot of others do and he certainly out thought Gavin back in 2013.
How well Mayo use O'Shea could be the winning and losing of the game.

[seafoid]

Mayo should be pulling out all the stops including making players aware of the consequences of winning this match

A well known hurler in the mid 1990s after winning the All-Ireland:

Interviewer: Well *****, what will it mean if ******* win the All-Ireland again next year?
***** : It'll mean I'll need a new mickey!

[highorlow]

Didn't Jim already give away the tactic earlier in the year. Play B.Moran and AOS in the FF line.

[yellowcard]

How can taking advice from mcGuinness be possibly seen as a negative? A proven winner who if you only even read his comments above in May, those words were mildly prophetic and ring as true then as they are now. Ironically, the difficulty is that Mayo looked in a better place to challenge for an AI title before the AI series began. If they do all that McGuinness suggests (and he doesn't offer up what this ACTUALLY is) he states that it is a 50/50 game. I wonder would he revise his opinion now however. If Mayo are lloking for positives to take into the final they have won an AI U-21 title this year, both Rochford and McEntee have won AI club titles as managers and McEntee has won an AI as a player. So the management team have been there and got over the line in big games. Their biggest job will be in trying to convince the players that they have a chance. They need to play the game with absolutely no fear like the result doesn't matter and McGuinness can get into their minds and help with this process then that can only be an advantage.   

[iorras]

I'm not saying its strictly speaking a negative, just saying that it would concern me from the point of view of potentially diluting the management teams viewpoint with another voice in there. As long as that is managed correctly then I agree it can work, and he could be a distinct asset. if Jim comes in and is taking training sessions and the like then it could be a disaster. I suppose I'm commenting without the full facts which is probably never wise, but then there would be no message boards on any topic if everyone only commented with all the facts

I hadn't read that IT article, its interesting all right. I would absolutely agree with him that Mayo need to maximise their strengths and he's right in his assertion that if you sit there just thinking about how you nullify Dublin you are at nothing. Regarding the Rory O'Carroll comment I think we've seen since then that Johnny Cooper is doing a fine job in that role so there mightn't be the weakness there everyone perceives there to be, and in fairness he wroth that last May.

The consensus this year is that Dublin don't panic. The evidence being offered is the Kerry 2-2 or whatever it was in 5 minutes and that Dublin kept plugging away. I think that's not correct analysis. They were under pressure on the scoreboard, sure, but I don't believe they were actually under pressure in many positions out the field. Most of their men were winning their individual battles, while the scoreboard said otherwise they probably didn't feel they were under pressure from a football perspective, and they weren't. I wonder what might happen if they come under pressure from a footballing perspective? They wont panic initially but if they find themselves suffocated or finding it hard to get scores through a whole half for example, will they start to panic a bit then? It hasn't happened to them in nearly two years, and I don't know if its going to happen on the 18th

God it'll be some craic if Mayo actually do it

[muppet]

Dunno about Jim McGuinness, but Alex Ferguson was spotted having a pint in Mick Byrne's!

[Hound]

The consensus this year is that Dublin don't panic. The evidence being offered is the Kerry 2-2 or whatever it was in 5 minutes and that Dublin kept plugging away. I think that's not correct analysis. They were under pressure on the scoreboard, sure, but I don't believe they were actually under pressure in many positions out the field. Most of their men were winning their individual battles, while the scoreboard said otherwise they probably didn't feel they were under pressure from a football perspective, and they weren't. I wonder what might happen if they come under pressure from a footballing perspective? They wont panic initially but if they find themselves suffocated or finding it hard to get scores through a whole half for example, will they start to panic a bit then? It hasn't happened to them in nearly two years, and I don't know if its going to happen on the 18th

God it'll be some craic if Mayo actually do it

I don't think "panic" is the right word. I think in these games "momentum" is a massive factor, certainly was in both Dublin-Mayo games last year. A team gets a run and utterly dominates for 5 or more minutes. When you have it , it's about taking advantage and getting as much on the scoreboard as you can. When it's going against you, it's about somehow halting it and turning it around (which the Dubs find as difficult to do as any other top team)