Why do we continually have to ape other sports ?
GAA on collision course with managers over proposal to announce teams early
Martin Breheny– 21 March 2013
GAA managers could be headed for a showdown with Croke Park over a proposal that all championship teams be named a minimum of four days before the game.
Central Council are backing the plan from the Rules Advisory Committee (RAC), which will be discussed at Congress in Derry on Saturday. If passed, managers will be forced to announce teams on a Tuesday or Wednesday depending on whether the game is on Saturday or Sunday. Failure to do so would carry a €500 fine per offence for county boards.
"We felt that earlier announcements would help to increase the amount of publicity that's available in the media for news on teams, comment and analysis of selections, etc," said RAC chairman, Frank Murphy.
There has been a growing trend towards announcing championship teams late in the week over recent seasons.
Some counties don't issue teams for Sunday games until Friday night, while there have been several instances – especially for All-Ireland qualifier games – of teams not being announced until just before throw-in.
Under current rules, there is no requirement on counties to announce teams at any stage before games, except for All-Ireland semi-finals and finals when they must be submitted to Croke Park no later than the previous Tuesday. However, that's for match-programme purposes only and it's often much later in the week when the teams are publicly announced.
Now, the RAC are trying to regularise earlier announcements for all championship games. "The object is to give the media the teams as early as possible to allow comment and analysis, which helps promote our games and generate publicity," said Murphy.
The fact that RAC and Central Council are submitting the motion will put pressure on counties to support the move, but, even if passed, it remains to be seen how team managers react.
The stipulation that a team must be announced four days before games could lead to dummy selections being released, creating public scepticism and media anger. That, in turn, would switch the focus back on county boards and their responsibility to uphold a rule which has the promotion of the GAA as its sole objective.
Thankfully Ger Loughnane is no longer managing Clare.
Why is it any business of anyone but a particular teams manager what team he is naming?
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 21, 2013, 11:23:55 AM
Why is it any business of anyone but a particular teams manager what team he is naming?
media and joe public have a bit of an interest
FFS. We all know how that will work.
Dummy teams will be submitted, teams will be fined. It will go the DRA and team doctors will testify the 8 changes to the Fermanagh team were forced by injuries at Thursday night training.
The next Working group will then suggest that all "late fitness tests" will have to be performed by an independent panel of medical experts.
This will lead to accusations that Dr X has a Cousin on the Armagh panel or Dr Y's County are playing Dublin in the next round and a further round with the DRA.
The next Working group will then suggest that late changes to the team will count against substitutions. Then there will be a row over the number of blood subs used by Cork and Tyrone will be accused of using fake blood packs to introduce a new player. These will also end up with the DRA.
The next working group will introduce compulsary independent waterboys, Doctors and Physios. And on it will go.
Meanwhile back in the real world someone will suggest Squad numbers and this will be ruled out as it goes against Sub-section 14, Paragraph 2 and the amendment to congress was missing a fada.
Quote from: LeoMc on March 21, 2013, 11:30:10 AM
FFS. We all know how that will work.
Dummy teams will be submitted, teams will be fined. It will go the DRA and team doctors will testify the 8 changes to the Fermanagh team were forced by injuries at Thursday night training.
The next Working group will then suggest that all "late fitness tests" will have to be performed by an independent panel of medical experts.
This will lead to accusations that Dr X has a Cousin on the Armagh panel or Dr Y's County are playing Dublin in the next round and a further round with the DRA.
The next Working group will then suggest that late changes to the team will count against substitutions. Then there will be a row over the number of blood subs used by Cork and Tyrone will be accused of using fake blood packs to introduce a new player. These will also end up with the DRA.
The next working group will introduce compulsary independent waterboys, Doctors and Physios. And on it will go.
Meanwhile back in the real world someone will suggest Squad numbers and this will be ruled out as it goes against Sub-section 14, Paragraph 2 and the amendment to congress was missing a fada.
Good stuff, Leo - that's about right.
If you have a Rules Advisory Committtee, they're going to have to advise on the rules once in a while, to justify their existence. It's simply a very good illustration of the make up of committees like these that this is the sort of shite they exercise their incisive analytical skills on, when there are real problems to be sorted out.
God forbid that we should actually promote the sport like an organization that knows what it's doing. Publicity? Who needs it?
Quote from: orangeman on March 21, 2013, 11:09:26 AM
Why do we continually have to ape other sports ?
If it wasn't for "aping other sports" the GAA wouldn't exist.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 21, 2013, 11:23:55 AM
Why is it any business of anyone but a particular teams manager what team he is naming?
We should scrap programmes altogether. If supporters aren't loyal enough to recognise their players then they should be thrown out of the ground. It is a bloody disgrace! What is Joe Duffy's number? Scrap that, is he on Skype?
They'll have us all wearing dresses before long.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 26, 2013, 02:39:31 PM
They'll have us all wearing dresses before long.
Pin stripe suits for managers.
I would love to be the first GAA manager to parade the sideline in a suit LOL.
I agree with the idea.
There's so much pretend tactics in Gaelic Games with regards to team selections, I'd welcome this nonsense was taken away. Managers might concentrate on conditioning and coaching instead of pretending that their star forward who has been training for a month, is still injured.
could we get rid of the farce of the Championship draws being done in October/November??
And then counties doing all sorts of shadow boxing during the league and pre season tournaments.
Imagine the excitement after the league groups stages, if the Championship draw was done then?
Counties could make a real effort in the league, not knowing who they would face in the championship.
Would make more sense to me. And would at least give a bit of hope to the weaker counties instead of knowing all winter that they were in for a beating come championship time.
If those weaker counties got a decent league run together then they might have a chance, depending on who they were drawn against.
Having the draw after the league would have no effect on the level of effort. If two teams that will play each other meet they might try things but a win is the main aim and far more important on the day. A later draw certainly wouldn't engender any greater level of excitement but it wouldn't hurt either.
Play the league, teams get seeded for the open Championship draw. This is followed by a traditional Provincial Championship, Provincial Champions and runners-up get additional points to their seeding, yes this will probably give Mayo, Galway, Cork, Kerry and Roscommon a very slight bump on average, but it will be less than may exist now.
In fairness it is getting really tiresome the bluff teams that managers have been putting out for the last while, to me it shows a sign of lack of confidence and self belief. Psychologically sends out all the wrong signals to the players on your own side, imagine a manager comes out on a Wednesday evening says here is my team for Sunday now come and do your best to beat that. Different mind set in my opinion.
Would it not be easier to have squad numbers?
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2013, 09:31:34 AM
Would it not be easier to have squad numbers?
Squads change all the time and would prove even more costly for county boards. Next thing they'll be wanting the names on the back of the jerseys!!
Why does the timing of the team announcement matter? There seems to be a suggestion that early naming of the teams helps with promotion/PR/whatever. I don't get that. Surely speculation about team selection generates as much, if not more, media attention - will he/won't he play, the Johnny vs. Joey phone-in debate, etc.
I don't see anything wrong with releasing player numbers (they don't have to be season-long squad numbers) a few days in advance so that the programme can be printed. It can even include a notional line-up. But the actual team is announced on the PA before the match. Even if it's not, people have eyes and biros and they can make the appropriate adjustments on their programmes.
There are problems the RAC could be addressing. This is not a problem. Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.
This is all part of Liam O'Neills crusade against the evil "cult of the manager"...he has a serious bee in the bonnet over stuff like this.
To be fair, naming dummy teams all the time for League games is idiotic and Cork and Dublin have been guilty in this regard in football league. For C/ship though, you can see the tactical element to it, so can see why managers do it.
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2013, 11:04:23 AM
Why does the timing of the team announcement matter? There seems to be a suggestion that early naming of the teams helps with promotion/PR/whatever. I don't get that. Surely speculation about team selection generates as much, if not more, media attention - will he/won't he play, the Johnny vs. Joey phone-in debate, etc.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, perfectly sums up the GAA's inability to promote its games like a proper organisation.
QuoteI don't see anything wrong with releasing player numbers (they don't have to be season-long squad numbers) a few days in advance so that the programme can be printed. It can even include a notional line-up. But the actual team is announced on the PA before the match. Even if it's not, people have eyes and biros and they can make the appropriate adjustments on their programmes.
There are problems the RAC could be addressing. This is not a problem. Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.
No. People don't have biros. I don't carry a pen with me to every sporting event. When I buy a program I expect the information in it to be f**king correct, not to have to do the organisers' job for them. ::)
What about having time outs ala Amercian football ?
More opportunity for the GAA to cash in ??
Commercial breaks would bring in big money at these time outs.
And helmets with radios in them so the manager can tell the robot players what to do. also more advertising space.
And in the present sideways handpassing world why not give a team a free every time they manage to move the ball 5 metres forwards.
Then you'd need only one man able to kick the ball who of course could be brought on just to take the kicks the handpassers would win.
Amazing delegates were so blinkered to not pass something as common sense as this motion but one to introduce something as game changing a black card on already deeply under pressure officials passes. Only in the GAA.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2013, 07:11:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2013, 11:04:23 AM
Why does the timing of the team announcement matter? There seems to be a suggestion that early naming of the teams helps with promotion/PR/whatever. I don't get that. Surely speculation about team selection generates as much, if not more, media attention - will he/won't he play, the Johnny vs. Joey phone-in debate, etc.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, perfectly sums up the GAA's inability to promote its games like a proper organisation.
QuoteI don't see anything wrong with releasing player numbers (they don't have to be season-long squad numbers) a few days in advance so that the programme can be printed. It can even include a notional line-up. But the actual team is announced on the PA before the match. Even if it's not, people have eyes and biros and they can make the appropriate adjustments on their programmes.
There are problems the RAC could be addressing. This is not a problem. Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.
No. People don't have biros. I don't carry a pen with me to every sporting event. When I buy a program I expect the information in it to be f**king correct, not to have to do the organisers' job for them. ::)
Any premiership game I've ever been to has the squad list and a space beside it where you can mark if he's playing or not. In the states the full active roster is printed.
So, for programmes in the GAA, an ideal solution would be to have squad numbers that can be printed, and if a new addition comes on then simply give them 25/26/27 whatever.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2013, 07:11:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2013, 11:04:23 AM
Why does the timing of the team announcement matter? There seems to be a suggestion that early naming of the teams helps with promotion/PR/whatever. I don't get that. Surely speculation about team selection generates as much, if not more, media attention - will he/won't he play, the Johnny vs. Joey phone-in debate, etc.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, perfectly sums up the GAA's inability to promote its games like a proper organisation.
While you're plying your marketing guru task, can you address the full context of the comment you quoted? It's my experience that teams that don't announce their selections in advance generate more media coverage in the immediate prelude to matches than those that do. Speculation about unannounced selections serially leads the sports bulletins in the days preceding big matches. Reports on selected teams typically last a day at the very best. Therefore, I contend that the PR argument for the importance of early team announcements is spurious.
Far too much interference from the authorities.
I can read as well as the next man & if a player has 18 on his back it is not a big deal to read the subs list to see who he is.
The fact of the matter is that printers need team lists in early & nowadays many managers don't make their minds up about their starting 15 until after the deadline.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 28, 2013, 02:00:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 28, 2013, 01:06:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2013, 07:11:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2013, 11:04:23 AM
Why does the timing of the team announcement matter? There seems to be a suggestion that early naming of the teams helps with promotion/PR/whatever. I don't get that. Surely speculation about team selection generates as much, if not more, media attention - will he/won't he play, the Johnny vs. Joey phone-in debate, etc.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, perfectly sums up the GAA's inability to promote its games like a proper organisation.
QuoteI don't see anything wrong with releasing player numbers (they don't have to be season-long squad numbers) a few days in advance so that the programme can be printed. It can even include a notional line-up. But the actual team is announced on the PA before the match. Even if it's not, people have eyes and biros and they can make the appropriate adjustments on their programmes.
There are problems the RAC could be addressing. This is not a problem. Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.
No. People don't have biros. I don't carry a pen with me to every sporting event. When I buy a program I expect the information in it to be f**king correct, not to have to do the organisers' job for them. ::)
Any premiership game I've ever been to has the squad list and a space beside it where you can mark if he's playing or not. In the states the full active roster is printed.
So, for programmes in the GAA, an ideal solution would be to have squad numbers that can be printed, and if a new addition comes on then simply give them 25/26/27 whatever.
Funnily enough, the MacRory Cup final had a player from St. Paul's Bessbrook wear a jersey with the number 42! How that came about I've no idea.
They had a squad of 43, I shit you not!
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 28, 2013, 02:15:20 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 28, 2013, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 28, 2013, 02:00:08 PM
Funnily enough, the MacRory Cup final had a player from St. Paul's Bessbrook wear a jersey with the number 42! How that came about I've no idea.
They had a squad of 43, I shit you not!
And there was me thinking Mickey Harte was bad :P
Think it was something to do with a Bessbrook player getting his ban lifted.
A squad of 43 is ridiculous though!!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 28, 2013, 02:22:13 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 28, 2013, 02:15:20 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 28, 2013, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 28, 2013, 02:00:08 PM
Funnily enough, the MacRory Cup final had a player from St. Paul's Bessbrook wear a jersey with the number 42! How that came about I've no idea.
They had a squad of 43, I shit you not!
And there was me thinking Mickey Harte was bad :P
Think it was something to do with a Bessbrook player getting his ban lifted.
A squad of 43 is ridiculous though!!
Absolutely. 42 is enough for any team.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2013, 11:28:22 AM
And helmets with radios in them so the manager can tell the robot players what to do. also more advertising space.
And in the present sideways handpassing world why not give a team a free every time they manage to move the ball 5 metres forwards.
Then you'd need only one man able to kick the ball who of course could be brought on just to take the kicks the handpassers would win.
The game you try to take the piss out of is officiated correctly. Mistakes are so rare in American Football refereeing because the yanks wouldn't accept it. They went ballistic when there were replacement refs who made some bad calls last year. In Ireland though we think the answer to bad refereeing is....make more stupid rules!
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 28, 2013, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 28, 2013, 02:00:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 28, 2013, 01:06:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2013, 07:11:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2013, 11:04:23 AM
Why does the timing of the team announcement matter? There seems to be a suggestion that early naming of the teams helps with promotion/PR/whatever. I don't get that. Surely speculation about team selection generates as much, if not more, media attention - will he/won't he play, the Johnny vs. Joey phone-in debate, etc.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, perfectly sums up the GAA's inability to promote its games like a proper organisation.
QuoteI don't see anything wrong with releasing player numbers (they don't have to be season-long squad numbers) a few days in advance so that the programme can be printed. It can even include a notional line-up. But the actual team is announced on the PA before the match. Even if it's not, people have eyes and biros and they can make the appropriate adjustments on their programmes.
There are problems the RAC could be addressing. This is not a problem. Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.
No. People don't have biros. I don't carry a pen with me to every sporting event. When I buy a program I expect the information in it to be f**king correct, not to have to do the organisers' job for them. ::)
Any premiership game I've ever been to has the squad list and a space beside it where you can mark if he's playing or not. In the states the full active roster is printed.
So, for programmes in the GAA, an ideal solution would be to have squad numbers that can be printed, and if a new addition comes on then simply give them 25/26/27 whatever.
Funnily enough, the MacRory Cup final had a player from St. Paul's Bessbrook wear a jersey with the number 42! How that came about I've no idea.
They had a squad of 43, I shit you not!
Better than that - 42 started !!
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 28, 2013, 02:46:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2013, 11:28:22 AM
And helmets with radios in them so the manager can tell the robot players what to do. also more advertising space.
And in the present sideways handpassing world why not give a team a free every time they manage to move the ball 5 metres forwards.
Then you'd need only one man able to kick the ball who of course could be brought on just to take the kicks the handpassers would win.
The game you try to take the piss out of is officiated correctly. Mistakes are so rare in American Football refereeing because the yanks wouldn't accept it. They went ballistic when there were replacement refs who made some bad calls last year. In Ireland though we think the answer to bad refereeing is....make more stupid rules!
Is every thread going to assailed with your whinging over the black card :-[
Easy to referee a game that has one bit of action every 20 effin minutes.
As for GAA refs -every time they enforce the Rules all the gurus line up to complain about them " Sure that was a grand game - no need to be givin red cards" after some lad was caught boxing the head of an opponent. And so on and so forth.
Anyway back to the point - The official team and subs is the list given to the Ref before the game is it not?
So any "team" announced 4 days earlier is highly unlikely to be the final team anyway.
As for the team with a squad of 42 - 27 subs. Nothing like sitting on a could bench for improving a young lad's ability
::)
No matter how you do, somebody can always counter argue - but I don't quite follow the bit in bold.
Just over 37pc of delegates to the GAA Congress last weekend voted against a motion to force counties to publicly name senior championship teams four days before games. In the great world of GAA democracy that was enough to reject the proposal, which required a two-thirds majority.
Proposed by Cork County Secretary, Frank Murphy, in his role as Rules Advisory chairman, it attracted only one speaker, who said that the introduction of the rule might lead to bogus teams being announced.
Indeed. But have counties so little influence over their managers that they can't demand compliance with a rule?
Anyway, the motion was beaten. Well done, folks, you made the day for rugby and soccer by adding no requirement to announce teams to the lengthening lists of anti-promotional devices now rampant in the GAA, led by the gagging of players. After all, the less publicity for GAA, the more for global games.
Quote from: orangeman on March 29, 2013, 10:38:37 AM
No matter how you do, somebody can always counter argue - but I don't quite follow the bit in bold.
Just over 37pc of delegates to the GAA Congress last weekend voted against a motion to force counties to publicly name senior championship teams four days before games. In the great world of GAA democracy that was enough to reject the proposal, which required a two-thirds majority.
Proposed by Cork County Secretary, Frank Murphy, in his role as Rules Advisory chairman, it attracted only one speaker, who said that the introduction of the rule might lead to bogus teams being announced.
Indeed. But have counties so little influence over their managers that they can't demand compliance with a rule?
Anyway, the motion was beaten. Well done, folks, you made the day for rugby and soccer by adding no requirement to announce teams to the lengthening lists of anti-promotional devices now rampant in the GAA, led by the gagging of players. After all, the less publicity for GAA, the more for global games.
Are you in favour of it?
How is it anti-promotional?
What is to stop Managers changing the team anyway?
Quote from: LeoMc on April 02, 2013, 01:33:05 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 29, 2013, 10:38:37 AM
No matter how you do, somebody can always counter argue - but I don't quite follow the bit in bold.
Just over 37pc of delegates to the GAA Congress last weekend voted against a motion to force counties to publicly name senior championship teams four days before games. In the great world of GAA democracy that was enough to reject the proposal, which required a two-thirds majority.
Proposed by Cork County Secretary, Frank Murphy, in his role as Rules Advisory chairman, it attracted only one speaker, who said that the introduction of the rule might lead to bogus teams being announced.
Indeed. But have counties so little influence over their managers that they can't demand compliance with a rule?
Anyway, the motion was beaten. Well done, folks, you made the day for rugby and soccer by adding no requirement to announce teams to the lengthening lists of anti-promotional devices now rampant in the GAA, led by the gagging of players. After all, the less publicity for GAA, the more for global games.
Are you in favour of it?
How is it anti-promotional?
What is to stop Managers changing the team anyway?
I agree with you. Squad numbers are the way to go.
Quote from: orangeman on April 02, 2013, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 02, 2013, 01:33:05 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 29, 2013, 10:38:37 AM
No matter how you do, somebody can always counter argue - but I don't quite follow the bit in bold.
Just over 37pc of delegates to the GAA Congress last weekend voted against a motion to force counties to publicly name senior championship teams four days before games. In the great world of GAA democracy that was enough to reject the proposal, which required a two-thirds majority.
Proposed by Cork County Secretary, Frank Murphy, in his role as Rules Advisory chairman, it attracted only one speaker, who said that the introduction of the rule might lead to bogus teams being announced.
Indeed. But have counties so little influence over their managers that they can't demand compliance with a rule?
Anyway, the motion was beaten. Well done, folks, you made the day for rugby and soccer by adding no requirement to announce teams to the lengthening lists of anti-promotional devices now rampant in the GAA, led by the gagging of players. After all, the less publicity for GAA, the more for global games.
Are you in favour of it?
How is it anti-promotional?
What is to stop Managers changing the team anyway?
I agree with you. Squad numbers are the way to go.
Cheers. I misread you there. Where did the bit in bold come from?
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2013, 03:04:24 PM
Easy to referee a game that has one bit of action every 20 effin minutes.
::)
"Easy" eh? Spoken like a man who knows nothing about the sport.
Everything happens so quickly in American football that they have the field swarming with referees. Milwaukee Hurling Club has taken a cue from this and they use two refs on the field in their internal league. No hitting off the ball because for every ref that has his back turned there's one facing you. And it's a lot easier to keep up with the play when you only have to cover one half of the field.