So what do ye think of the black card rule now?

[AZOffaly]

Begone you agent of ambiguity!

[muppet]

Begone you agent of ambiguity!

Begone the authors of the RuleBook.

[AZOffaly]

Begone you agent of ambiguity!

Begone the authors of the RuleBook.

+1000000000

[Stall the Bailer]

The black card add the extra questions for the referee. The incorrect calls on the black cards has a bigger impact on the games than yellows would. The black cards have added this problem.

The black card introduction lead to a lot workshops and training on the new rules. If this training had to be given on the yellows instead there would have been a lot less need for the black card introduction.

[AZOffaly]

The black card add the extra questions for the referee. The incorrect calls on the black cards has a bigger impact on the games than yellows would. The black cards have added this problem.

The black card introduction lead to a lot workshops and training on the new rules. If this training had to be given on the yellows instead there would have been a lot less need for the black card introduction.

Maybe. I'm obviously not going to convince you. I think it's actually one of the clearer cut definitions we have, despite Muppet validly picking holes in it. The real problem is, has been, and will continue to be the standard of refereeing and the state of the rulebook.

[Stall the Bailer]

I just think the less decisions the referees need to make the better (less to get wrong). We agree it is mainly a refereeing issue, but the black card made their job harder. The easier we make it to referee a game, the better the standard of refereeing will become.

[BennyHarp]

AZ I understand your interpretation of the Black Card rule, and I understand why you think the Tyrone player should have got yellow. but I have been reading this again:

The Gaelic Football Rule Changes which become operative on 1 January 2014 are as follows:
1. Introduction of a Black Card for Cynical Behaviour Fouls.
2. Change in the number of substitutes allowed.
3. Distinction between Deliberate and Accidental Fouls.
4. Definition of the Tackle.
5. Introduction of a clearer Advantage Rule.
6. A player in possession may score a point with an open-handed hand-pass.
Cynical Behaviour Fouls
1. Deliberately pull down an opponent.
2. Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
3. Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
4. Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
5. Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official.

[my emphasis]

I think it was reasonable for the ref to see that hit as deliberate. It was a shoulder charge to the chest which is why everyone agrees it was a yellow card. However the word 'or' in #3 above is vital. Most people seem to assume the sentence is along the lines of...... deliberately collide after he has played the ball AND for the purposes of taking him out of a movement of play. But the word OR means he (Gooch in this case) doesn't have to had played the ball away.

Thus the sentence is deliberately collide with a player.....for the purposes of taking him out of a movement of play. Is it not at least arguable that the ref was within his rights to issue a black card under that interpretation?

I agree with all of this to be fair. But  the problem arises when the ref makes a decision like that with McNamee and we could justify it based on what is said above, but minutes later makes a decision like with Enright and we are left scratching our heads.

Also, how Darren O'Sullivan didn't get a black in the last few seconds is odd too, does it not count in the last 10 seconds and the ref feels the game is won anyway?

[westbound]

AZ I understand your interpretation of the Black Card rule, and I understand why you think the Tyrone player should have got yellow. but I have been reading this again:

The Gaelic Football Rule Changes which become operative on 1 January 2014 are as follows:
1. Introduction of a Black Card for Cynical Behaviour Fouls.
2. Change in the number of substitutes allowed.
3. Distinction between Deliberate and Accidental Fouls.
4. Definition of the Tackle.
5. Introduction of a clearer Advantage Rule.
6. A player in possession may score a point with an open-handed hand-pass.
Cynical Behaviour Fouls
1. Deliberately pull down an opponent.
2. Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
3. Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
4. Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
5. Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official.

[my emphasis]

I think it was reasonable for the ref to see that hit as deliberate. It was a shoulder charge to the chest which is why everyone agrees it was a yellow card. However the word 'or' in #3 above is vital. Most people seem to assume the sentence is along the lines of...... deliberately collide after he has played the ball AND for the purposes of taking him out of a movement of play. But the word OR means he (Gooch in this case) doesn't have to had played the ball away.

Thus the sentence is deliberately collide with a player.....for the purposes of taking him out of a movement of play. Is it not at least arguable that the ref was within his rights to issue a black card under that interpretation?

I agree with all of this to be fair. But  the problem arises when the ref makes a decision like that with McNamee and we could justify it based on what is said above, but minutes later makes a decision like with Enright and we are left scratching our heads.

Also, how Darren O'Sullivan didn't get a black in the last few seconds is odd too, does it not count in the last 10 seconds and the ref feels the game is won anyway?

I actually thought with the Darren O'Sullivan one that it should have been a free in (i.e. a foul by the tyrone man). BUT, if the ref judged it as a foul by O'Sullivan then I agree it should have been a black card. I'm guessing that the ref knew he had booked him earlier and decided that he didn't want to send him off at that stage in the game!

But I agree with you, if it's a foul/black card/ red card offence then regardless of time in the game or consequences for suspension/missing the final etc. then the punishment should be given!

Although, it'd probably be overturned on appeal anyway!!!!!!!!

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

The Darran O'Sullivan where he caught the Tyrone lad in the chest? A black card?? Do ye even look at what the rules actually say at all? 

[BennyHarp]

The Darran O'Sullivan where he caught the Tyrone lad in the chest? A black card?? Do ye even look at what the rules actually say at all? 

No the incident after that on Conor Clarke.

[orangeman]

Whelo ( and the rest )  don't think much of the black card after today's game. Funny that.

[sligoman2]

Not the fault of the black card but the inability of the refs to enforce them.  I'm not a religious man but I am praying that the gaa will wake up to the need for more than one ref very soon.
It seems to me that the players, managers and team prep has moved on a lot in the past 10 years but the administration is light years behind in introducing common sense changes like 2 refs and a stop clock and many other rules.

[rosnarun]

if all referees are unable to enforce a rule then then the Rule is bad.

Refs have far to many option when calling a free /

no further action
a talking to
a Ticking
yellow vcard
Black card
Red Card

Vey hard to be consistent with such a vast array. I would have it as red and yellow only .
and another thing it should take about 10 seconds . where as now how many games end up killed off with the last 5 - 10 mins spent main dishing out cards and a litany of substitutions
I say call a time out with 5 minutes to go and last of the subs brought I and no more allowed under any Circumstances, Okay the had you dealt

[AZOffaly]

If we are going to get rid of the black card because people are either too thick, or deliberately obtuse, to enforce it correctly or understand it, then at least have the balls to award yellow and red cards for the same behaviour. How likely is that though, or how likely is it that lads will go back to the sneaky drag down to allow defences get set up?

The rule book needs rewriting, and we're saying that for 10 years at least.

[BennyHarp]

Not the fault of the black card but the inability of the refs to enforce them.  I'm not a religious man but I am praying that the gaa will wake up to the need for more than one ref very soon.
It seems to me that the players, managers and team prep has moved on a lot in the past 10 years but the administration is light years behind in introducing common sense changes like 2 refs and a stop clock and many other rules.

It is the black card rules fault that the refs can't enforce them. There are far too many variables that occur to be able to make a cut and dry decision like is prescribed in the black card offences. It is making a complete hash of the game at the minute, just like many, many people said it would. There is something seriously wrong with the rules in a high octane, full blooded, contact sport where a player is asked to leave the field of play for one incident such as Mchael Darragh MacAuley or Denis Bastic yesterday, or Marc O'Se and Conor Meyler the week before, or many other examples of clumsy mistimed tackles that by the letter of the law are black card offences but are not worthy in my view of ending a persons involvement in the game. Yet, a tackle found the neck gets a yellow and the lad stays on the pitch. I can't believe we never fully give a chance to the sin bin, where at least any genuine referee mistakes doesn't completely righti off a players involvement in the match. The refs are only part of the problem, we have to make the rules enforceable in as consistent a way as possible, currently as they stand, they don't allow this to happen.

Edit. I fully agree AZ we need to sit down and rewrite the whole rule book, sanctions etc and tie up any loop holes etc.