This is 2009, right? Insanity at Knock!

[J70]

They do quote a Ms. Rabbitte who photographed "vivid rays radiating downwards from the sun".

"They've brought forth juniper berries!"



(Closest picture I could find!)

[mylestheslasher]

Sure if they really wanted to see Mary why didn't they go into a field and eat a few mushrooms and then stare at the sun. Anyway, as idiotic as it sounds to go waiting for the virgin mary to appear (how would they know what she looked like even if she did?) these people are doing no harm so let them away at it.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Feck sake why do all these loonies congregate in Mayo, theres that Houes of Prayer out on Achill, I will not comment on it because they are very prone to suing.

Come on Cork & Donegal have some more moving statues to attract them away form our lovely county.

[The Real Laoislad]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

[J70]

Don't think anyone is proposing preventing them from doing it. I suppose it is harmless enough in itself, but I'm not sure that the tendency towards superstition and the lack of skepticism and reasoning in a large part of society is a good thing.

[SLIGONIAN]

Don't think anyone is proposing preventing them from doing it. I suppose it is harmless enough in itself, but I'm not sure that the tendency towards superstition and the lack of skepticism and reasoning in a large part of society is a good thing.

My argument is a lack of camera when all these people knew it was going to happen? Wouldnt you want to capture it?

[J70]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

The day that even one of these so-called miracles stands up to objective, independent, verification, I'll take a more charitable view of them. The same goes for ghosts and fairies.

Members of my extended family have gone to Lourdes. I think they're utterly fooling themselves that something larger is afoot, and on that basis I would consider their behaviour futile and foolish, to say the least, if they're going there in search of some supernatural intervention. But change it to "moronic behaviour" if you wish, as I am sure that most of the people there yesterday are decent souls and perfectly intelligent in other aspects of their lives.

[Gnevin]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

Lourdes has 67 "miracles" in 150 years . Not exactly a great batting average now is it?  Witchdoctors are probably averaging the same numbers .

Would you send your sick child to Lourdes  or a Doctor first

[J70]

Don't think anyone is proposing preventing them from doing it. I suppose it is harmless enough in itself, but I'm not sure that the tendency towards superstition and the lack of skepticism and reasoning in a large part of society is a good thing.

My argument is a lack of camera when all these people knew it was going to happen? Wouldnt you want to capture it?

As I said earlier, they did quote a woman by the name of Rabbitte who photographed "vivid rays" emanating from the sun.

I would expect the photos to have been sold to the news programmes at this point. Fox News had photos of the Hudson helicopter/plane accident a few weeks back within a hour or two!

[DrinkingHarp]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

Lourdes has 67 "miracles" in 150 years . Not exactly a great batting average now is it?  Witchdoctors are probably averaging the same numbers .

Would you send your sick child to Lourdes  or a Doctor first

This might answer your question


Parents in prayer death get 6 months in jail
Tue Oct 6, 2009 4:05 AM EDTus-news, us, death, prayerRobert Imrie, Associated Press WriterWAUSAU — A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seek medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced Tuesday to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death.

Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes. They were convicted of second-degree reckless homicide in separate trials earlier this year.

In sentencing the couple, Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard said the Neumanns were "very good people, raising their family who made a bad decision, a reckless decision."

"God probably works through other people," Howard told the parents, "some of them doctors."

The case was believed to be the first of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.

Prosecutors contended the Neumanns recklessly killed their youngest of four children by ignoring obvious symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk. They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but relied totally on prayer for healing. The girl, known as Kara, died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone finally called 911 after she stopped breathing.

"We are here today because to some, you made Kara a martyr to your faith," Howard told the parents.

In testimony at trial and in videotaped interviews with police, the parents said they believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die.

During the sentencing hearing, Leilani Neumann, 41, told the judge her family is loving and forgiving and has wrongly been portrayed as religious zealots.

"I do not regret trusting truly in the Lord for my daughter's health," she said. "Did we know she had a fatal illness? No. Did we act to the best of our knowledge? Yes."

Dale Neumann, 47, read from the Bible and told the judge that he loved his daughter.

"I am guilty of trusting my Lord's wisdom completely. ... Guilty of asking for heavenly intervention. Guilty of following Jesus Christ when the whole world does not understand. Guilty of obeying my God," he said.

The Neumanns held each other as Howard sentenced them, a Bible on the table nearby and their three teenage children sitting behind them in the front row of the courtroom.

Prosecutors had asked for a three-year suspended prison sentence and 10 years probation. Defense attorneys had sought four years probation.

The judge ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for six years so the parents can "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this." One parent would serve the term in March and the other in September. Howard stayed the jail sentences while the couple's convictions are appealed.

As part of their probation, the parents must allow a public health nurse to examine their two underage children at least once every three months and must immediately take their children to a doctor for any serious injuries.

Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson said justice was served by the sentences, but he was disappointed the parents never said they were sorry for what happened.

"They allowed Kara to die because they got themselves too caught up in the misguided belief that they were being tested by God," the prosecutor said.

Dale Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, told reporters the couple continues to trust in God.

"We live by faith," he said after the sentencing. "We are completely content with what the Lord has allowed to come down, but he is not done yet."

[pintsofguinness]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

Lourdes has 67 "miracles" in 150 years . Not exactly a great batting average now is it?  Witchdoctors are probably averaging the same numbers .

Would you send your sick child to Lourdes  or a Doctor first

I dont think anyone is suggesting not going to a doctor.   

Its fair enough if you dont believe what they do, I dont really buy it myself but ridiculing someone for believing something you dont is the height of arrogance.

[The Real Laoislad]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

Lourdes has 67 "miracles" in 150 years . Not exactly a great batting average now is it?  Witchdoctors are probably averaging the same numbers .

Would you send your sick child to Lourdes  or a Doctor first

Lourdes is not all about healing sick people,some people go to pray for other things and if it helps them in some way then whats the problem?
My parents went to Lourdes after we lost my 5 year old brother to a Astmha attack one night,it didn't bring my little brother back but it did help them with their grieving,you may ask how did it help?
I dunno how it helped but they got something from the trip and whose to say what force or divine help they got?

I certainly wouldn't go calling them morons for believing they got "help" from being there,so while you may not believe in God or miracles or anything got to do with religion some people do and anything that can help people get over a loss of such a magnitude is a good thing in my view.

BTW don't you dare say if there was a God why did he take my little brother from us at such a young age...

[J70]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

Lourdes has 67 "miracles" in 150 years . Not exactly a great batting average now is it?  Witchdoctors are probably averaging the same numbers .

Would you send your sick child to Lourdes  or a Doctor first

I dont think anyone is suggesting not going to a doctor.   

Its fair enough if you dont believe what they do, I dont really buy it myself but ridiculing someone for believing something you dont is the height of arrogance.

So when is it not "the height of arrogance" to ridicule the beliefs of someone else?

Should David Irving's beliefs not be ridiculed? David Icke?

[J70]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

Lourdes has 67 "miracles" in 150 years . Not exactly a great batting average now is it?  Witchdoctors are probably averaging the same numbers .

Would you send your sick child to Lourdes  or a Doctor first

This might answer your question


Parents in prayer death get 6 months in jail
Tue Oct 6, 2009 4:05 AM EDTus-news, us, death, prayerRobert Imrie, Associated Press WriterWAUSAU — A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seek medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced Tuesday to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death.

Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes. They were convicted of second-degree reckless homicide in separate trials earlier this year.

In sentencing the couple, Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard said the Neumanns were "very good people, raising their family who made a bad decision, a reckless decision."

"God probably works through other people," Howard told the parents, "some of them doctors."

The case was believed to be the first of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.

Prosecutors contended the Neumanns recklessly killed their youngest of four children by ignoring obvious symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk. They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but relied totally on prayer for healing. The girl, known as Kara, died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone finally called 911 after she stopped breathing.

"We are here today because to some, you made Kara a martyr to your faith," Howard told the parents.

In testimony at trial and in videotaped interviews with police, the parents said they believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die.

During the sentencing hearing, Leilani Neumann, 41, told the judge her family is loving and forgiving and has wrongly been portrayed as religious zealots.

"I do not regret trusting truly in the Lord for my daughter's health," she said. "Did we know she had a fatal illness? No. Did we act to the best of our knowledge? Yes."

Dale Neumann, 47, read from the Bible and told the judge that he loved his daughter.

"I am guilty of trusting my Lord's wisdom completely. ... Guilty of asking for heavenly intervention. Guilty of following Jesus Christ when the whole world does not understand. Guilty of obeying my God," he said.

The Neumanns held each other as Howard sentenced them, a Bible on the table nearby and their three teenage children sitting behind them in the front row of the courtroom.

Prosecutors had asked for a three-year suspended prison sentence and 10 years probation. Defense attorneys had sought four years probation.

The judge ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for six years so the parents can "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this." One parent would serve the term in March and the other in September. Howard stayed the jail sentences while the couple's convictions are appealed.

As part of their probation, the parents must allow a public health nurse to examine their two underage children at least once every three months and must immediately take their children to a doctor for any serious injuries.

Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson said justice was served by the sentences, but he was disappointed the parents never said they were sorry for what happened.

"They allowed Kara to die because they got themselves too caught up in the misguided belief that they were being tested by God," the prosecutor said.

Dale Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, told reporters the couple continues to trust in God.

"We live by faith," he said after the sentencing. "We are completely content with what the Lord has allowed to come down, but he is not done yet."

Yes, that case certainly starkly illustrated the logical conclusion of indulging superstition and wishful thinking. Thankfully most religious people maintain some grip on reality and can separate out the nonsense.

[pintsofguinness]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why should they get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the lads who saw the virgin mary in the tree stump in Rathkeale?

How about Fatima or Lourdes is anyone who believes something happened in those places morons too? Or are the millions of people who visit these sites every year also morons?
Maybe these people did see something,maybe they didn't I'm not religious enough to know or care for that matter but just because they believe something you don't doesn't make them morons...

Lourdes has 67 "miracles" in 150 years . Not exactly a great batting average now is it?  Witchdoctors are probably averaging the same numbers .

Would you send your sick child to Lourdes  or a Doctor first

I dont think anyone is suggesting not going to a doctor.   

Its fair enough if you dont believe what they do, I dont really buy it myself but ridiculing someone for believing something you dont is the height of arrogance.

So when is it not "the height of arrogance" to ridicule the beliefs of someone else?

Should David Irving's beliefs not be ridiculed? David Icke?

Theres a difference between criticising or arguing against and calling people morons.