Firstly, there is no doubt that there should be more than 1 week between their tyrone win and then their first round game against the mighty derry champs. But derry was knocked out long before tyrone in the championship and yet their club final was only 2 weeks before this game today, so we all know the problems with club fixtures and it's a farce surely.
But, surely it is time for a root and branch review of tyrone and their clubs. Their championship is very highly thought off within their own county, as I know they get big crowds etc. Are they partying too hard after winning, or more likely their just not fit for ulster club football?
2002 was when errigal won it, I cant think of any team even in a final since that? surely tyrone people here cant defend such an appalling 11 year record
Any reason why Armagh final was only today, when Armagh exited the championship in July.
To be fair Armagh isn't exactly brimming with talent, the only team to give Cross a game this year was Maghery. In Tyrone, any number of clubs would give Cross a game, Errigal, Dromore, Clonoe, Carrickmore, Coalisland and even Omagh or Ardboe.
The last Armagh club outside of Cross to win an Ulster championship was Mullaghbawn in 95 and before that Clans in 74. So I wouldn't be too chirpy about trying to get bragging rights on this one!
Was just curious, its starts every year in September? I know if I was a club footballer in Armagh I wouldn't like waiting until September to play in the championship. I suppose it works for Crossmaglen with Ulster Club football soon after that.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 20, 2013, 09:01:16 PM
Was just curious, its starts every year in September? I know if I was a club footballer in Armagh I wouldn't like waiting until September to play in the championship. I suppose it works for Crossmaglen with Ulster Club football soon after that.
I think they like to keep a two week gap between games, to allow for replays etc. It also removes the need for fixtures having to be changed which is particularly annoying for club players who may have to change their work schedules and what not. Tyrone played their championship off quite promptly this year, no choice I suppose.
Quote from: general_lee on October 20, 2013, 08:58:03 PM
To be fair Armagh isn't exactly brimming with talent, the only team to give Cross a game this year was Maghery. In Tyrone, any number of clubs would give Cross a game, Errigal, Dromore, Clonoe, Carrickmore, Coalisland and even Omagh or Ardboe.
The last Armagh club outside of Cross to win an Ulster championship was Mullaghbawn in 95 and before that Clans in 74. So I wouldn't be too chirpy about trying to get bragging rights on this one!
Ogs won a few years ago
Quote from: hardstation on October 20, 2013, 09:06:14 PM
Milltown, he said "win Ulster".
oh, did we put Ogs out in the first round?
We don't like foreign food and stuff.
Quote from: general_lee on October 20, 2013, 08:58:03 PM
To be fair Armagh isn't exactly brimming with talent, the only team to give Cross a game this year was Maghery. In Tyrone, any number of clubs would give Cross a game, Errigal, Dromore, Clonoe, Carrickmore, Coalisland and even Omagh or Ardboe.
The last Armagh club outside of Cross to win an Ulster championship was Mullaghbawn in 95 and before that Clans in 74. So I wouldn't be too chirpy about trying to get bragging rights on this one!
not looking bragging rights, cross are way ahead of everyone in Armagh but at least they have 6 of the last 7 ulsters! tyrone record is a joke
Quote from: Orchardman on October 20, 2013, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 20, 2013, 08:58:03 PM
To be fair Armagh isn't exactly brimming with talent, the only team to give Cross a game this year was Maghery. In Tyrone, any number of clubs would give Cross a game, Errigal, Dromore, Clonoe, Carrickmore, Coalisland and even Omagh or Ardboe.
The last Armagh club outside of Cross to win an Ulster championship was Mullaghbawn in 95 and before that Clans in 74. So I wouldn't be too chirpy about trying to get bragging rights on this one!
not looking bragging rights, cross are way ahead of everyone in Armagh but at least they have 6 of the last 7 ulsters! tyrone record is a joke
Are you a Cross man?
Quote from: reddgnhand on October 20, 2013, 09:48:56 PM
Quote from: Orchardman on October 20, 2013, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 20, 2013, 08:58:03 PM
To be fair Armagh isn't exactly brimming with talent, the only team to give Cross a game this year was Maghery. In Tyrone, any number of clubs would give Cross a game, Errigal, Dromore, Clonoe, Carrickmore, Coalisland and even Omagh or Ardboe.
The last Armagh club outside of Cross to win an Ulster championship was Mullaghbawn in 95 and before that Clans in 74. So I wouldn't be too chirpy about trying to get bragging rights on this one!
not looking bragging rights, cross are way ahead of everyone in Armagh but at least they have 6 of the last 7 ulsters! tyrone record is a joke
Are you a Cross man?
of course not. I'm sick of looking at them. I didn't start this thread to hype up cross, but it seems that's what tyrone people want to do. The lack of anything decent in 12 replies explains it all, the silence is deafening
Quote from: Orchardman on October 20, 2013, 08:49:28 PM
Firstly, there is no doubt that there should be more than 1 week between their tyrone win and then their first round game against the mighty derry champs. But derry was knocked out long before tyrone in the championship and yet their club final was only 2 weeks before this game today, so we all know the problems with club fixtures and it's a farce surely.
But, surely it is time for a root and branch review of tyrone and their clubs. Their championship is very highly thought off within their own county, as I know they get big crowds etc. Are they partying too hard after winning, or more likely their just not fit for ulster club football?
2002 was when errigal won it, I cant think of any team even in a final since that? surely tyrone people here cant defend such an appalling 11 year record
The standard seems to be fairly dire alright. I would imagine the pick of Clonoe and Carrickmore wouldn't have beaten Ballinderry. Dromore looked to have a side a few years back who might have made an impression in ulster but seem to struggle to get out of tyrone
of course there are plenty of good teams in tyrone, do you think it's ok that not one of them in 11 years were able to win 1 or even 2 games just to make it to the ulster final?
Why am I picking on tyrone??
1. Because they have won 3 all Ireland in the same time span
2. they are full of hot air and I like putting them down!
And don't even compare antrim football to Armagh, world of difference
Quote from: hardstation on October 20, 2013, 10:07:01 PM
Why Tyrone football? There are 9 counties in Ulster. The Ulster club winners have come from only 3 of those counties over this last lot of years.
As pointed out, the Tyrone championship is one of the healthiest around with more realistic contenders than any other county.
Some would say that the Armagh & Antrim championships are the biggest joke with one decent team in each and the rest of the teams bollix.
That's true though to a certain point
Quote from: hardstation on October 20, 2013, 10:27:40 PM
Still very predictable and boring though, no?
Also worth noting Tyrone teams' success at intermediate & junior.
As I've said before i'm not gonna defend the Armagh championship despite having the strongest club in the country, wer not the best and wer certainly not the worst.
Yes, tyrone do have a good record in the junior, well they did in the first few years of it anyway
They've won 3 out of the last 5 Ulster Intermediates (2 All-Irelands) and 4 out of the last 9 Juniors (1 All-Ireland, 3 runners up).
They just haven't produced a great senior side since Canavan's Errigal.
Get over it you tube accept the fact your county team is of a very poor standard and your neighbours have 3 all irelands. Clowns like you make a laughing stock of Armagh people. This thread is not about the quality of club football in Tyrone but says more about the petty jealousy of the individual who started it. Boring.
Don't see the issue here really. We don't produce great club sides, we have great county minor and senior sides. They often win Ulster titles and it's a success that every gael in Tyrone can take pride in. Would I swap it for a monopoly by one team that could win an Ulster club title now and again? No chance.
So we compete poorly in senior Ulster championships. It won't keep me awake at night anyway.
Soaring the dizzying heights of Stephen Nolan-esque levels of sensationalism in the thread title.
(http://fineanimalgorilla.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/yawn.gif)
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
maybe i'm wrong and maybe it changed this year but do you not regularly get division 1 teams playing in the ifc in armagh with some division 2 teams playing in the sfc. surely this makes crossmaglens task a little bit easier in armagh?
Quote from: clarshack on October 21, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
maybe i'm wrong and maybe it changed this year but do you not regularly get division 1 teams playing in the ifc in armagh with some division 2 teams playing in the sfc. surely this makes crossmaglens task a little bit easier in armagh?
Happens in Antrim, most clubs decide what Championship they would like to play in, only previous winners on JFC/JHC JHC/IHC move up to the next level and if they happen to be div 2 teams they will play senior the following season while being a div 2 team.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2013, 02:21:22 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 21, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
maybe i'm wrong and maybe it changed this year but do you not regularly get division 1 teams playing in the ifc in armagh with some division 2 teams playing in the sfc. surely this makes crossmaglens task a little bit easier in armagh?
Happens in Antrim, most clubs decide what Championship they would like to play in, only previous winners on JFC/JHC JHC/IHC move up to the next level and if they happen to be div 2 teams they will play senior the following season while being a div 2 team.
Strange one that, almost every team in Tyrone consider relegation to be a calamity and whilst a championship is the big prize, promotion in any manner is the real long term goal of any club.
Quote from: trileacman on October 21, 2013, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2013, 02:21:22 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 21, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
maybe i'm wrong and maybe it changed this year but do you not regularly get division 1 teams playing in the ifc in armagh with some division 2 teams playing in the sfc. surely this makes crossmaglens task a little bit easier in armagh?
Happens in Antrim, most clubs decide what Championship they would like to play in, only previous winners on JFC/JHC JHC/IHC move up to the next level and if they happen to be div 2 teams they will play senior the following season while being a div 2 team.
Strange one that, almost every team in Tyrone consider relegation to be a calamity and whilst a championship is the big prize, promotion in any manner is the real long term goal of any club.
I think with games going into a play off situation it does create a better finish to the year and teams in that position do tend to train right to the end, that's why we (Naomh Gall) are playing teams like Coalisland last week as they are still in the league shake up and a competitive game for us.
We had a play off thing years ago, never really took off in fairness, a lot of teams complained that they should have been promoted when they topped their league but lost out during a play off. Our seconds hurling team won two promotions that way in consecutive seasons (we were 4th each time and maybe 10 points off first place), they scrapped it the following year
Another strange one is in Dublin where they play a relegation championship according to wiki. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Dublin_Senior_Football_Championship)
The relegation championship is the opposite of the usual format of a championship. The winner of each game leaves the competition when they lose their game, the losers go on to the next stage. The team that loses all their games will get relegated if the Dublin Intermediate champions are a non senior championship club. The relegation championship was cancelled as St. Mark's opted to be relegated and rebuild their team in the Dublin Intermediate Football Championship in 2015.
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 21, 2013, 03:14:42 PM
Another strange one is in Dublin where they play a relegation championship according to wiki. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Dublin_Senior_Football_Championship)
The relegation championship is the opposite of the usual format of a championship. The winner of each game leaves the competition when they lose their game, the losers go on to the next stage. The team that loses all their games will get relegated if the Dublin Intermediate champions are a non senior championship club. The relegation championship was cancelled as St. Mark's opted to be relegated and rebuild their team in the Dublin Intermediate Football Championship in 2015.
I would like to see that implemented in Tyrone. It would be the flip side of the Intermediate league and championship winners the relegation winners(!) and the bottom team going down. Then 2 straight playoff's 2nd v 2nd from bottom and 3rd v 3rd from bottom.
If my memory serves and mirroring the actual draw, we would have had Omagh /
Greencastle v
Dromore / Donaghmore and Killyclogher /
Ardboe v
Derrylaughan / Cookstown
Donaghmore v Cookstown in the final with Donaghmore going down?
I think the fairer system is this: The winner of Div 1 wins the league, bottom team down, the winning team in Div 2 straight up. 4
2nd and 3rd last in Div 1 play off and the loser of that plays the winner of 2nd v 3rd of Div 2.
I think that's how it is in Derry now.
Quote from: clarshack on October 21, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
maybe i'm wrong and maybe it changed this year but do you not regularly get division 1 teams playing in the ifc in armagh with some division 2 teams playing in the sfc. surely this makes crossmaglens task a little bit easier in armagh?
You're right and wrong, it was the case for the last number of years, including this season; but as of next year the system will be pretty much the same as the Tyrone club setup. As an example, Annaghmore won the Junior, played Intermediate league and finished second, thus meaning they will be a Senior club next season.
As for EC saying Cross coast Armagh, did they also coast those 10 Ulsters/6 AI's? I'd near wager a bet now that no team in Ulster will get closer to Cross than Maghery did this year (3 points).
Quote from: general_lee on October 21, 2013, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 21, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
maybe i'm wrong and maybe it changed this year but do you not regularly get division 1 teams playing in the ifc in armagh with some division 2 teams playing in the sfc. surely this makes crossmaglens task a little bit easier in armagh?
You're right and wrong, it was the case for the last number of years, including this season; but as of next year the system will be pretty much the same as the Tyrone club setup. As an example, Annaghmore won the Junior, played Intermediate league and finished second, thus meaning they will be a Senior club next season.
As for EC saying Cross coast Armagh, did they also coast those 10 Ulsters/6 AI's? I'd near wager a bet now that no team in Ulster will get closer to Cross than Maghery did this year (3 points).
That won't make Maghery the second best team in Ulster ffs.
Where on earth are you getting that from?
My point is that there are teams in Armagh that can give Cross a game. People like to pretend that Armagh is a walkover for Cross, when in reality they get as little/as much resistance in Armagh, as they do when they enter the Ulster Club. I used Maghery as an example because IMO they gave Cross a game and kept them scoreless for 20mins or so.
Quote from: general_lee on October 21, 2013, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 21, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
I'd near wager a bet now that no team in Ulster will get closer to Cross than Maghery did this year (3 points).
So its just a case of Maghery will be the best team Cross will meet this year as no other team (in your opinion) won't come close to a 3 point defeat? ;)
Tyrone's record in the Ulster club at senior level is weirdly poor. A competitive club scene in their own county never did Derry clubs any harm when they hit Ulster. Tyrone clubs never seem to get past the first round or two for some reason. Maybe a lack of real drive or ambition to go much further?
Armagh people are as bemused as other counties by the dominance of Cross. Other clubs haven't raised their game enough and any time they did (like Dromintee in the early to mid 2000s and Pearse Ogs at different times, Cross have responded and raised the bar even higher). But they've dominated Ulster too for the most part since 1997 so we'll not beat ourselves up too much over it. They're just an exceptional club with unmatched focus and ambitions. I wouldn't fancy any team in Ulster's chances against them this year again, even though they're missing 3-4 of their best players. It might hamper them at the all-Ireland stage but probably not Ulster.
Quote from: screenexile on October 21, 2013, 05:25:01 PM
I think the fairer system is this: The winner of Div 1 wins the league, bottom team down, the winning team in Div 2 straight up. 4
2nd and 3rd last in Div 1 play off and the loser of that plays the winner of 2nd v 3rd of Div 2.
I think that's how it is in Derry now.
I would agree, we just put in the play off games as a cushion due to the number of games teams have to play without their best players.
QuoteIt might hamper them at the all-Ireland stage but probably not Ulster.
Quite, if it wasn't for Down and Derry teams Ulster would be less challenging to Cross' than the Armagh championship.
Quote from: general_lee on October 21, 2013, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 21, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
I'd near wager a bet now that no team in Ulster will get closer to Cross than Maghery did this year (3 points).
So its just a case of Maghery will be the best team Cross will meet this year as no other team (in your opinion) won't come close to a 3 point defeat? ;)
It's the case that Maghery gave Cross a game, had them well rattled at one stage and were within 3 points of them.
I'll be mildly surprised to see a team run them that close in Ulster. Which puts to bed this notion that Cross get a bye ball in Armagh, like the way Naomh Gall do in Antrim ;)
Quote from: general_lee on October 21, 2013, 10:46:43 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 21, 2013, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 21, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.
I'd near wager a bet now that no team in Ulster will get closer to Cross than Maghery did this year (3 points).
So its just a case of Maghery will be the best team Cross will meet this year as no other team (in your opinion) won't come close to a 3 point defeat? ;)
It's the case that Maghery gave Cross a game, had them well rattled at one stage and were within 3 points of them.
I'll be mildly surprised to see a team run them that close in Ulster. Which puts to bed this notion that Cross get a bye ball in Armagh, like the way Naomh Gall do in Antrim ;)
Semi and final was only won by a point, so if we get to the final then those two teams in Antrim could have done just as well.........not!!
not much going on here so maybe crisis avoided.
Quote from: sensethetone on October 22, 2013, 12:27:56 PM
not much going on here so maybe crisis avoided.
Till next year.
I suppose that we in Antrim would settle for a shit record in Ulster (though only ourselves and St Johns have ever played in Club finals) and have a great County team
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 21, 2013, 12:02:07 AM
Get over it you tube accept the fact your county team is of a very poor standard and your neighbours have 3 all irelands. Clowns like you make a laughing stock of Armagh people. This thread is not about the quality of club football in Tyrone but says more about the petty jealousy of the individual who started it. Boring.
Would you ever cop urself on. 3 all Ireland has nothing to do with it, it's already being mentioned by me in my opening post as I knew some clown would bring it up. Can you not just debate the actual issue here about ur lack of club success? No, didn't think so. As others have said, derry have had a much better scene than tyrone, when they had different winners every year and yet 3 or 4 of them did well in ulster so tyrone can't use that excuse.
Quote from: trileacman on October 21, 2013, 12:05:44 AM
Don't see the issue here really. We don't produce great club sides, we have great county minor and senior sides. They often win Ulster titles and it's a success that every gael in Tyrone can take pride in. Would I swap it for a monopoly by one team that could win an Ulster club title now and again? No chance.
So we compete poorly in senior Ulster championships. It won't keep me awake at night anyway.
Tyrone have had good county success, sure we all know that. Not the point we are talking about here. I'm simply just asking why so many of the tyrone clubs are so weak, we havn't got an answer from any tyrone person so I think we'll just leave it at that then.
Armagh not winning more all Ireland minor titles doesn't keep me awake at night either as I don't remember us partying too hard after our 2009 win.
Quote from: ONeill on October 20, 2013, 11:55:27 PM
They've won 3 out of the last 5 Ulster Intermediates (2 All-Irelands) and 4 out of the last 9 Juniors (1 All-Ireland, 3 runners up).
They just haven't produced a great senior side since Canavan's Errigal.
Fair enough, that was a very good errigal side
Sure was. Probably the only side to go toe-to-toe with Cross and come out of it on the right side. Didn't get the AI they should have.
Quote from: ONeill on October 22, 2013, 10:40:18 PM
Sure was. Probably the only side to go toe-to-toe with Cross and come out of it on the right side. Didn't get the AI they should have.
I don't agree with that plenty of teams have went at it with Crossmaglen over the years and beat them but they haven't backed it up though . . .
Loup, Castleblayney, Pearse Og, Enniskillen, Brigids, Kilmacud, Portlaoise, Bellaghy, Vincents.
Quote from: screenexile on October 23, 2013, 01:23:04 AM
Quote from: ONeill on October 22, 2013, 10:40:18 PM
Sure was. Probably the only side to go toe-to-toe with Cross and come out of it on the right side. Didn't get the AI they should have.
I don't agree with that plenty of teams have went at it with Crossmaglen over the years and beat them but they haven't backed it up though . . .
Loup, Castleblayney, Pearse Og, Enniskillen, Brigids, Kilmacud, Portlaoise, Bellaghy, Vincents.
Ah, I don't know now, though their fall from grace has been frightening.
Quote from: trileacman on October 23, 2013, 02:47:25 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 23, 2013, 01:23:04 AM
Quote from: ONeill on October 22, 2013, 10:40:18 PM
Sure was. Probably the only side to go toe-to-toe with Cross and come out of it on the right side. Didn't get the AI they should have.
I don't agree with that plenty of teams have went at it with Crossmaglen over the years and beat them but they haven't backed it up though . . .
Loup, Castleblayney, Pearse Og, Enniskillen, Brigids, Kilmacud, Portlaoise, Bellaghy, Vincents.
Ah, I don't know now, though their fall from grace has been frightening.
The Gaels team were very unfortunate during that dominance they had, great team with the Brewster's and rest. Played a great brand of football too
Quote from: Orchardman on October 22, 2013, 10:10:34 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 21, 2013, 12:02:07 AM
Get over it you tube accept the fact your county team is of a very poor standard and your neighbours have 3 all irelands. Clowns like you make a laughing stock of Armagh people. This thread is not about the quality of club football in Tyrone but says more about the petty jealousy of the individual who started it. Boring.
Would you ever cop urself on. 3 all Ireland has nothing to do with it, it's already being mentioned by me in my opening post as I knew some clown would bring it up. Can you not just debate the actual issue here about ur lack of club success? No, didn't think so. As others have said, derry have had a much better scene than tyrone, when they had different winners every year and yet 3 or 4 of them did well in ulster so tyrone can't use that excuse.
what years of different winners are you refering to and who are the 3 or 4 that did well in ulster?
Quote from: sensethetone on October 23, 2013, 09:16:34 AM
Quote from: Orchardman on October 22, 2013, 10:10:34 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 21, 2013, 12:02:07 AM
Get over it you tube accept the fact your county team is of a very poor standard and your neighbours have 3 all irelands. Clowns like you make a laughing stock of Armagh people. This thread is not about the quality of club football in Tyrone but says more about the petty jealousy of the individual who started it. Boring.
Would you ever cop urself on. 3 all Ireland has nothing to do with it, it's already being mentioned by me in my opening post as I knew some clown would bring it up. Can you not just debate the actual issue here about ur lack of club success? No, didn't think so. As others have said, derry have had a much better scene than tyrone, when they had different winners every year and yet 3 or 4 of them did well in ulster so tyrone can't use that excuse.
what years of different winners are you refering to and who are the 3 or 4 that did well in ulster?
Well from 1997 to 2003 4 different Derry teams won Ulster:
1997 Dungiven
2000 Bellaghy
2001 Ballinderry
2003 Loup
The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.
I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.
Quote from: cornerback on October 23, 2013, 09:32:31 AM
Quote from: sensethetone on October 23, 2013, 09:16:34 AM
Quote from: Orchardman on October 22, 2013, 10:10:34 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 21, 2013, 12:02:07 AM
Get over it you tube accept the fact your county team is of a very poor standard and your neighbours have 3 all irelands. Clowns like you make a laughing stock of Armagh people. This thread is not about the quality of club football in Tyrone but says more about the petty jealousy of the individual who started it. Boring.
Would you ever cop urself on. 3 all Ireland has nothing to do with it, it's already being mentioned by me in my opening post as I knew some clown would bring it up. Can you not just debate the actual issue here about ur lack of club success? No, didn't think so. As others have said, derry have had a much better scene than tyrone, when they had different winners every year and yet 3 or 4 of them did well in ulster so tyrone can't use that excuse.
what years of different winners are you refering to and who are the 3 or 4 that did well in ulster?
Well from 1997 to 2003 4 different Derry teams won Ulster:
1997 Dungiven
2000 Bellaghy
2001 Ballinderry
2003 Loup
Plus
2005 Bellaghy (Finalists)
2006 Ballinderry (Finalists)
2008 Ballinderry (Finalists)
2009 Loup (Finalists)
The non-appearance in Ulster Club finals over the last three years ('10, '11 and '12) is the longest absence of a Derry representative since the 1980's when there was a big gap between Ballinderry in '81? and Lavey in '90
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2013, 09:50:33 AM
Club football in Tyrone arguably is in a crises, but certainly not for the reasons given by the OP. If that were the case Fermanagh club football would be up shit creek. :o
So for what reason is it in crisis?
I went to watch Errigal v Dromore and Clonoe v Carrickmore in the Championship and watched two really good, entertaining games of football. There was an excellent attendance at both games. As I live elsewhere I don't get to see as many club games as I'd like to (only 6 this year) but I haven't seen anything to suggest a crisis.
I retired about 10 years ago and throughout my playing career the biggest grievance was always to do with the fixtures, particularly when Tyrone had a good championship run. This has never been resolved satisfactorily. I recall playing relegation/promotion playoffs in early December!
I haven't missed a county final in 10+ years and I agree they are usually turgid affairs - but again I think the fixtures are responsible for this. Healy Park in October is usually the stickiest pitch in the county particularly when we've had a spell of poor weather. It's impossible to play good football on it. Been there! These marquee games need to played earlier and the championship played over 4 months - not 5 weeks so players have a chance to recover in between.
Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.
I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.
I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.
Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.
Quote from: cornerback on October 23, 2013, 09:32:31 AM
Quote from: sensethetone on October 23, 2013, 09:16:34 AM
Quote from: Orchardman on October 22, 2013, 10:10:34 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 21, 2013, 12:02:07 AM
Get over it you tube accept the fact your county team is of a very poor standard and your neighbours have 3 all irelands. Clowns like you make a laughing stock of Armagh people. This thread is not about the quality of club football in Tyrone but says more about the petty jealousy of the individual who started it. Boring.
Would you ever cop urself on. 3 all Ireland has nothing to do with it, it's already being mentioned by me in my opening post as I knew some clown would bring it up. Can you not just debate the actual issue here about ur lack of club success? No, didn't think so. As others have said, derry have had a much better scene than tyrone, when they had different winners every year and yet 3 or 4 of them did well in ulster so tyrone can't use that excuse.
what years of different winners are you refering to and who are the 3 or 4 that did well in ulster?
Well from 1997 to 2003 4 different Derry teams won Ulster:
1997 Dungiven
2000 Bellaghy
2001 Ballinderry
2003 Loup
tyrone are in crisis as they haven't won a club ulster since 2002, although derry clubs have won and deserved to win all ireland club championships if ballinderry don't win ulster this year the 11 year break will hardly mean derry football is in crisis.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 23, 2013, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.
I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.
I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.
Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.
Ballinderry dont have a 3rds team and had to use a lot of minors in our reserves this year.
The fcukwittery of the Tyrone CCC has a lot to answer for, on a lot of occassion the senior championship is rushed through meaning there is usually only a week between the Tyrone winner winning their domestic cup and having to play in Ulster.
Also, lets face it, its been pretty rare in Tyrone where there has been back to back county champions. I think this has a big bearing on how teams fair out in Ulster. Take for example, this year, you have the following teams who will be competing in the Ulster club who have won domestic championships back to back:
St Galls (Antrim)
Crossmaglen (Armagh)
Kilcoo (Down)
Ballinderry (Derry)
Its probably a bit hard to explain over a keyboard but those teams mentioned above will not be getting too excited over winning a county championship, its not a new thing for them if you get me. They win it, move on and focus totally on trying to win the Ulster club.
Clubs in Tyrone are just so overwhelmed & overjoyed to win a county championship that its more difficult for them to raise it again the following week for an Ulster club game. When a club in Tyrone win the senior championship, nearly anything after that in Ulster is a bonus. They will party naturally for a couple of days after the championship victory so its very difficult to get the wheels in motion again for another big match the following week.
The only way I can see Tyrone clubs competing well in the Ulster club is that if you have a team that comes in and dominates the domestic championship for a few years of the bounce. Take for example, if Clonoe where to win the next 3 Tyrone championships, they would do better in the Ulster competition you would imagine.
Its no coincidence that the clubs who dominate their domestic county championships go on to do well in the Ulster grade.
Quote from: Christmas Lights on October 23, 2013, 12:28:36 PM
The fcukwittery of the Tyrone CCC has a lot to answer for, on a lot of occassion the senior championship is rushed through meaning there is usually only a week between the Tyrone winner winning their domestic cup and having to play in Ulster.
Also, lets face it, its been pretty rare in Tyrone where there has been back to back county champions. I think this has a big bearing on how teams fair out in Ulster. Take for example, this year, you have the following teams who will be competing in the Ulster club who have won domestic championships back to back:
St Galls (Antrim)
Crossmaglen (Armagh)
Kilcoo (Down)
Ballinderry (Derry)
Its probably a bit hard to explain over a keyboard but those teams mentioned above will not be getting too excited over winning a county championship, its not a new thing for them if you get me. They win it, move on and focus totally on trying to win the Ulster club.
Clubs in Tyrone are just so overwhelmed & overjoyed to win a county championship that its more difficult for them to raise it again the following week for an Ulster club game. When a club in Tyrone win the senior championship, nearly anything after that in Ulster is a bonus. They will party naturally for a couple of days after the championship victory so its very difficult to get the wheels in motion again for another big match the following week.
The only way I can see Tyrone clubs competing well in the Ulster club is that if you have a team that comes in and dominates the domestic championship for a few years of the bounce. Take for example, if Clonoe where to win the next 3 Tyrone championships, they would do better in the Ulster competition you would imagine.
Its no coincidence that the clubs who dominate their domestic county championships go on to do well in the Ulster grade.
Good points well made - the thing is, I don't think Clonoe, or any other team for that matter, have the capacity to dominate in the Tyrone championship in the near future. I like the fact that there are so many teams who have the potential to win it!
Quote from: GerryFromDerry on October 23, 2013, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 23, 2013, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.
I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.
I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.
Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.
Ballinderry dont have a 3rds team and had to use a lot of minors in our reserves this year.
Cross have a seconds team and a B team which barely fields. There is a serious misconception
that we have a huge pick and most of the players that come through arefroma few established families. If you want touse arbitrary 10 year figure then Ulster club football as a whole is in crisis as we have won 7 of the last 10 with only 2 other clubs winning, and 1 of those clubs never beat usin any attempt.
Tyrone football is no different to Monaghan football,or Donegal football whereby there are a number of teams who have the ability to make the push to win the county but are just a step below the next level. I wouldn't say that is a crisis as the county is still competing at the lower level chmapionships consistently (asare Monaghan) an if anything that displays a healthy club scene as all levels are in good shape. For all our dominace no other club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.
Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 12:35:59 PM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on October 23, 2013, 12:28:36 PM
The fcukwittery of the Tyrone CCC has a lot to answer for, on a lot of occassion the senior championship is rushed through meaning there is usually only a week between the Tyrone winner winning their domestic cup and having to play in Ulster.
Also, lets face it, its been pretty rare in Tyrone where there has been back to back county champions. I think this has a big bearing on how teams fair out in Ulster. Take for example, this year, you have the following teams who will be competing in the Ulster club who have won domestic championships back to back:
St Galls (Antrim)
Crossmaglen (Armagh)
Kilcoo (Down)
Ballinderry (Derry)
Its probably a bit hard to explain over a keyboard but those teams mentioned above will not be getting too excited over winning a county championship, its not a new thing for them if you get me. They win it, move on and focus totally on trying to win the Ulster club.
Clubs in Tyrone are just so overwhelmed & overjoyed to win a county championship that its more difficult for them to raise it again the following week for an Ulster club game. When a club in Tyrone win the senior championship, nearly anything after that in Ulster is a bonus. They will party naturally for a couple of days after the championship victory so its very difficult to get the wheels in motion again for another big match the following week.
The only way I can see Tyrone clubs competing well in the Ulster club is that if you have a team that comes in and dominates the domestic championship for a few years of the bounce. Take for example, if Clonoe where to win the next 3 Tyrone championships, they would do better in the Ulster competition you would imagine.
Its no coincidence that the clubs who dominate their domestic county championships go on to do well in the Ulster grade.
Good points well made - the thing is, I don't think Clonoe, or any other team for that matter, have the capacity to dominate in the Tyrone championship in the near future. I like the fact that there are so many teams who have the potential to win it!
I think trying to find any one reason is a bad idea. Ballinderry won the All-Ireland in March 2002 after winning Derry in 2001. They hadn't won it since 1995 previous. Lavey hadn't dominated before they won the All-Ireland either. When the Loup won Ulster, they hadn't won a Derry title since 1936.
However, it's a better argument than the catchment excuse which is nonsense altogether.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: GerryFromDerry on October 23, 2013, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 23, 2013, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.
I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.
I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.
Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.
Ballinderry dont have a 3rds team and had to use a lot of minors in our reserves this year.
Cross have a seconds team and a B team which barely fields. There is a serious misconception
that we have a huge pick and most of the players that come through arefroma few established families. If you want touse arbitrary 10 year figure then Ulster club football as a whole is in crisis as we have won 7 of the last 10 with only 2 other clubs winning, and 1 of those clubs never beat usin any attempt.
Tyrone football is no different to Monaghan football,or Donegal football whereby there are a number of teams who have the ability to make the push to win the county but are just a step below the next level. I wouldn't say that is a crisis as the county is still competing at the lower level chmapionships consistently (asare Monaghan) an if anything that displays a healthy club scene as all levels are in good shape. For all our dominace no other club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.
Which will continue ffs!! We've won it twice got to 2 finals in that period but as said haven't beaten ya's. Our record is poor considering the amount of times we've been in the competition. The standard of teams in the semi stage are very good and anyone of them have a chance to win.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2013, 01:31:50 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2013, 12:41:50 PMFor all our dominace no other club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.
Didn't Port Mor win the Ulster Club JFC last year?
Quote from: LeoMc on October 23, 2013, 11:42:03 AMI think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.
Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.
The irony there is that the only Tyrone club with a 3rd team - Errigal Ciaran - also have a fourth team playing in the Division 3 Reserve league and they even won the Junior Reserve FC a few years ago. AFAIK Errigal are the only club in Ulster that field four adult sides.
Thats some going in fairness, we ran 3 teams in the ACL's, when all the games are fixed for same time it was a push but 90% of games were played, we also run a 4th team in the beer belly league. Cargin would have had 3 teams also, may still do. Which is grand as you should have places for lads to go if they are interested in staying on, either to push for the senior team or play every week competitively or to find a level that suits you.
Errigal must be a big parish
Quote from: GerryFromDerry on October 23, 2013, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 23, 2013, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.
I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.
I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.
Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.
Ballinderry dont have a 3rds team and had to use a lot of minors in our reserves this year.
Maybe it is is Bellaghy I am thinking of. Did Ronan Rocks not make a thing about only playing 3rds when he transferred a few years ago.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 23, 2013, 02:54:03 PM
Quote from: GerryFromDerry on October 23, 2013, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 23, 2013, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.
I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.
I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.
Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.
Ballinderry dont have a 3rds team and had to use a lot of minors in our reserves this year.
Maybe it is is Bellaghy I am thinking of. Did Ronan Rocks not make a thing about only playing 3rds when he transferred a few years ago.
bellaghy and magherafelt.
rocks played nets for the thirds for a bit I think!
kinda disproves the theory all the same ;D ;D
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2013, 02:27:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 01:59:35 PM
Thats some going in fairness, we ran 3 teams in the ACL's, when all the games are fixed for same time it was a push but 90% of games were played, we also run a 4th team in the beer belly league. Cargin would have had 3 teams also, may still do. Which is grand as you should have places for lads to go if they are interested in staying on, either to push for the senior team or play every week competitively or to find a level that suits you.
Errigal must be a big parish
What Errigal Ciaran have is their first team competing in the Tyrone ACL Division 1 (and the Tyrone SFC), their second/reserve team playing in the respective reserve league and championship, their third team competing in ACL Division 3 (and the Tyrone JFC), and their fourth or "thirds reserve" team playing in that respective reserve league and championship. Traditionally ACL games in Tyrone are on a Sunday afternoon with the reserve game having a 2.15pm throw-in and the senior game at 3.45pm. However Errigal Ciaran have an arrangement where their thirds team and their reserve counterparts usually play their game at a different time that weekend. When Carrickmore had a thirds team for a couple of years they had a similar arrangement. The reason for this is not to try and stretch panel resources, but more to allow club players, officials and supporters to be able to watch both sets of fixtures. Before the start of the season the club has to submit a list of 40 players that are tied only to the first and seconds/first reserves and can't play for the thirds or thirds reserves/fourths. In addition they have to supply an additional 12 names that cannot play for the thirds reserves/fourths as is standard for all clubs fielding a reserve team in their league. Any time I've seen the Errigal thirds play the numbers they bring to games aren't too shabby both on and off the pitch. What has now evolved for Errigal is that they now have effectively two separate panels, a senior and a junior panel. The senior panel concentrate on Division 1 & the Senior FC where its reserve team acts as a development squad for its first team. The junior panel is for players who either can't or won't commit to the demands of the senior panel along with some older players who still want to play competitively. The problem is for their thirds team is that their form varies wildly from one season to the next. They been at the foot of the Division 3 table for most of this season (they only picked up their first league point in their last game) whereas in the last few seasons they've been more competitive including reaching promotion play-offs. In the Junior championship, the best they've reached so far is the semi-final stage.
Our thirds panel is also used as a development stage for senior players. In this years Championship match against Dromore we had 2 players playing that were on our 3rds panel 2 years ago. Only for the 3rds they would probably not be playing the game at all anymore. It is difficult to keep numbers going but definitely worth while.
As for Tyrone clubs not doing well in Ulster club? Hard to know what is wrong. It takes a big effort to win Tyrone Championship and it is extremely physical where as Ulster rewards a team that plays good football. The Errigal sides that done well in Ulster were dripping with talent but sometimes struggled to get out of Tyrone.
Quote from: EC Unique on October 23, 2013, 03:43:18 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2013, 02:27:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 01:59:35 PM
Thats some going in fairness, we ran 3 teams in the ACL's, when all the games are fixed for same time it was a push but 90% of games were played, we also run a 4th team in the beer belly league. Cargin would have had 3 teams also, may still do. Which is grand as you should have places for lads to go if they are interested in staying on, either to push for the senior team or play every week competitively or to find a level that suits you.
Errigal must be a big parish
What Errigal Ciaran have is their first team competing in the Tyrone ACL Division 1 (and the Tyrone SFC), their second/reserve team playing in the respective reserve league and championship, their third team competing in ACL Division 3 (and the Tyrone JFC), and their fourth or "thirds reserve" team playing in that respective reserve league and championship. Traditionally ACL games in Tyrone are on a Sunday afternoon with the reserve game having a 2.15pm throw-in and the senior game at 3.45pm. However Errigal Ciaran have an arrangement where their thirds team and their reserve counterparts usually play their game at a different time that weekend. When Carrickmore had a thirds team for a couple of years they had a similar arrangement. The reason for this is not to try and stretch panel resources, but more to allow club players, officials and supporters to be able to watch both sets of fixtures. Before the start of the season the club has to submit a list of 40 players that are tied only to the first and seconds/first reserves and can't play for the thirds or thirds reserves/fourths. In addition they have to supply an additional 12 names that cannot play for the thirds reserves/fourths as is standard for all clubs fielding a reserve team in their league. Any time I've seen the Errigal thirds play the numbers they bring to games aren't too shabby both on and off the pitch. What has now evolved for Errigal is that they now have effectively two separate panels, a senior and a junior panel. The senior panel concentrate on Division 1 & the Senior FC where its reserve team acts as a development squad for its first team. The junior panel is for players who either can't or won't commit to the demands of the senior panel along with some older players who still want to play competitively. The problem is for their thirds team is that their form varies wildly from one season to the next. They been at the foot of the Division 3 table for most of this season (they only picked up their first league point in their last game) whereas in the last few seasons they've been more competitive including reaching promotion play-offs. In the Junior championship, the best they've reached so far is the semi-final stage.
Our thirds panel is also used as a development stage for senior players. In this years Championship match against Dromore we had 2 players playing that were on our 3rds panel 2 years ago. Only for the 3rds they would probably not be playing the game at all anymore. It is difficult to keep numbers going but definitely worth while.
As for Tyrone clubs not doing well in Ulster club? Hard to know what is wrong. It takes a big effort to win Tyrone Championship and it is extremely physical where as Ulster rewards a team that plays good football. The Errigal sides that done well in Ulster were dripping with talent but sometimes struggled to get out of Tyrone.
Burren are also dripping with talent and can't get out of Down lately, Glen in Derry are also dripping with great underage talent the last 3 years and couldn't win Intermediate this year, Clontibert dripping with talent and stuffed in Monaghan this year.
Is it the style of football that makes it difficult to win in Tyrone, i.e everyone behind the ball, low scoring, fouling? We found this to be the norm this year, in every game we played it was bodies behind the ball and stop start games with no great play developing. I think at HT in the Cargin semi it was 0-2 to 0-1!! Mental
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2013, 01:31:50 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2013, 12:41:50 PMFor all our dominace no other club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.
Didn't Port Mor win the Ulster Club JFC last year?
They certainly did, first Armagh team to win at junior provincial level. And a good night was had on the back of it!
Sure An Port Mor is nearly Tyrone anyway, that's why I forgot about them ;)
Quote from: Armamike on October 23, 2013, 04:26:29 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2013, 01:31:50 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2013, 12:41:50 PMFor all our dominace no other club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.
Didn't Port Mor win the Ulster Club JFC last year?
They certainly did, first Armagh team to win at junior provincial level. And a good night was had on the back of it!
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2013, 09:50:33 AM
Club football in Tyrone arguably is in a crises, but certainly not for the reasons given by the OP. If that were the case Fermanagh club football would be up shit creek. :o
Ok, a few lads have said this, I accept crisis is maybe too strong a word, it was used for banter reasons! still feel it was worth discussing, nothing else outside the ulster club worth talking about at the moment
Quote from: Orchardman on October 23, 2013, 04:55:24 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2013, 09:50:33 AM
Club football in Tyrone arguably is in a crises, but certainly not for the reasons given by the OP. If that were the case Fermanagh club football would be up shit creek. :o
Ok, a few lads have said this, I accept crisis is maybe too strong a word, it was used for banter reasons! still feel it was worth discussing, nothing else outside the ulster club worth talking about at the moment
What about 'a terrible state of chassis'?
When you look at the stats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Senior_Club_Football_Championship)
It looks like Cross only starting coming to the fore in 1996, 98 & 99. Was just wondering what are the main reasons for this in most people's eyes.
What did they change or how did they make such a big impact from there on?
Armagh clubs now have 14 Ulster titles with Derry having 11. You have to go back ten years for Derry's last win which was for an Lub.
Am I right to say most teams that win it have a huge pick of players that stay committed to the cause.
I suppose having Oisin & PTG helped their teams over the line a lot.
Quote from: sheamy on October 23, 2013, 03:25:27 PM
kinda disproves the theory all the same ;D ;D
It does indeed. I should have remembered an argument from a few years ago where someone was saying Beragh (Div 3) had a bigger parish than Errigal.
Quote from: Fuzzman on October 23, 2013, 05:24:44 PM
When you look at the stats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Senior_Club_Football_Championship)
It looks like Cross only starting coming to the fore in 1996, 98 & 99. Was just wondering what are the main reasons for this in most people's eyes.
What did they change or how did they make such a big impact from there on?
Armagh clubs now have 14 Ulster titles with Derry having 11. You have to go back ten years for Derry's last win which was for an Lub.
Am I right to say most teams that win it have a huge pick of players that stay committed to the cause.
I suppose having Oisin & PTG helped their teams over the line a lot.
I guess it takes an exceptionally talented set of players to come along at once; with an exceptional level of dedication, commitment, discipline, belief and courage - attributes that Crossmaglen have in abundance. As well as all the talented players they have, they also have an almost telepathic understanding - they're one of the best drilled teams I've seen across any sporting discipline.
The thing with Cross is that they're able to adapt without their so-called main men. OisÃn retiring, Jamie on his holidays, a number of injuries and they're still favourites. Most clubs would be decimated by that. I think Cross may struggle at the latter stages of the AI
if/when they reach there, but Ulster should almost be a formality in my view.
Should this topic not just be on the tyrone county section/
I think it has to be stated when talking about 3rds teams in Tyrone errigal are a parish team the size of clonoe parish they field 4 teams each week in the acl clonoe parish fields 8 teams clonoe o rahillys and derrylaughan kevin barrys in senior derrytresk fir na chroic in intermediate and brocagh emmetts in junior all fielding senior and reserves. Tyrone championship this year was won in under 30 days by clonoe thats 4 hard games in under a month then asked to play the 5th week in ulster is a very big ask I feel even cross st galls or Ballinderry would struggle with that regime. The problem lies with the ccc in Tyrone they set the fixtures they cause the problem also all 3 leagues are not finished yet which is adding to club and player fraustrations too.
Quote from: winghalfback on October 24, 2013, 01:04:13 AM
I think it has to be stated when talking about 3rds teams in Tyrone errigal are a parish team the size of clonoe parish they field 4 teams each week in the acl clonoe parish fields 8 teams clonoe o rahillys and derrylaughan kevin barrys in senior derrytresk fir na chroic in intermediate and brocagh emmetts in junior all fielding senior and reserves. Tyrone championship this year was won in under 30 days by clonoe thats 4 hard games in under a month then asked to play the 5th week in ulster is a very big ask I feel even cross st galls or Ballinderry would struggle with that regime. The problem lies with the ccc in Tyrone they set the fixtures they cause the problem also all 3 leagues are not finished yet which is adding to club and player fraustrations too.
Is there an argument then, that there are too many club teams in some areas of Tyrone? I know that it would be a highly contentious issue but some teams have amalgamated to their advantage (Errigal & Clan Na Gael). It's not something I would personally support but I have heard it touted as a solution to the problem before.
County No of Clubs
Antrim 51
Armagh 44
Cavan 40
Derry 40
Donegal 40
Down 46
Fermanagh 22
Monaghan 33
Tyrone 53
i take it that included hurling clubs?
there are 48 football clubs in tyrone
Coalisland and Clonoe should discuss this merging initiative after tonight's league fixture.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 24, 2013, 10:03:38 AM
i take it that included hurling clubs?
there are 48 football clubs in tyrone
It does
We got into the Ulster club in 2008 and this year. On both occasions we had to play semi final, final and 1st round of Ulster club all within 2 weeks. To win a semi final, and then play a final 7 days later, to achieve a major goal in ones playing career, and then try to reset your goal within 3/4 days amid the celebrations and then go and play this game another 7 days later was for us just emotionally impossible. We lost last Sundays game in the first 10/15 mins, why? because B'derry had time to set their goal for Ulster(and probably they expected to win Derry and had an eye on this fixture and competition), had time to prepare and had the luxury of studying us, whilst we had feck all preparations. the Tyrone CCC are muck in my eyes. Yet year in and out this body is aloud to get with this shite and nothing ever changes. Dromore had the same situation in 2011, so in the past five years the county champions have had this type of preparations in 3 of the years. Errigal had the time last year to prepare and they won their fitst round and fell at the semi to Cross. The CCC in Tyrone are very cupable when it comes to why our clubs are not doing well in Ulster club. Essentially the county board look after the county team, and shaft the clubs year in and out, but we deserve all we get because Ciaran Mc Laughlin has now served as Chairman and presided over the this sham for how many years on the trot and we still vote him in.
Tyrone probably has a nationalist population 10-20% bigger than Armagh, so a few more clubs is pro rata.
Does Tyrone get enough from its bigger towns, where there is a pick? It clearly has strong rural clubs, as many counties do, but how about Omagh, Dungannon, Strabane and even Cookstown?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2013, 09:44:42 AM
Tyrone probably has a nationalist population 10-20% bigger than Armagh, so a few more clubs is pro rata.
Does Tyrone get enough from its bigger towns, where there is a pick? It clearly has strong rural clubs, as many counties do, but how about Omagh, Dungannon, Strabane and even Cookstown?
The flip side to that is does Armagh get enough out of it's town teams too? It is rare that you have strong town teams outside of City counties. Most strong clubs are built around small areas.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2013, 09:44:42 AM
Tyrone probably has a nationalist population 10-20% bigger than Armagh, so a few more clubs is pro rata.
Does Tyrone get enough from its bigger towns, where there is a pick? It clearly has strong rural clubs, as many counties do, but how about Omagh, Dungannon, Strabane and even Cookstown?
I tried to find a bit more data on this - I know Tyrone has a very large Nationalist/Catholic population and the 4th largest population in Ulster, so there would be a disproportionately larger number of GAA members and clubs. It is also a geographically large county.
The large towns aren't particularly well represented. All four have one main club based in the town but they are all encircled by a number of rural clubs 5-10 minutes from these population centres - Urney and Owen Roes on the fringes of Strabane - Drumragh, Tattyreagh and Killyclogher outside Omagh and countless teams on the outskirts of Dungannon to the Lough Shore.
http://www.tyronegaa.ie/club/club-locator/
The wee map shows the spread.
Omagh are probably the biggest let down at senior level..having lifted ulster titles at minor and u21 level this past 5-6 years, they dont seem to be able to get it together at senior level..this year they had maybe 6-7 on the senior county squad which obviously affected them, as they now appear to be involved in a relegation battle...always touted as a potential winner each year and usually pull of a big win or 2 each year but cant string a consistency required to make the breakthrough.
In saying that i do believe if they can make a break through they could give ulster a rattle as proven with their underage success.
Dungannon appear to be completely rebuilding, had a very good side late 90s to mid 00's but will be a while b4 they get back to that level...cookstown are a mid table div1 team, end off..too strong for intermediate but not strong enough to lift senior titles, at the mo. I know they put a big shift in this year to maintain senior status after being relegated the last time they came up. Be interesting to see if they can maintain this. Not sure what the score is with Strabane, big nationalist town yes, but soccer may be a factor there.
So all in all its difficult to see one of the big towns making a breakthrough anytime soon.
Quote from: Onthe40 on October 25, 2013, 10:24:29 AM
Omagh are probably the biggest let down at senior level..having lifted ulster titles at minor and u21 level this past 5-6 years, they dont seem to be able to get it together at senior level..this year they had maybe 6-7 on the senior county squad which obviously affected them, as they now appear to be involved in a relegation battle...always touted as a potential winner each year and usually pull of a big win or 2 each year but cant string a consistency required to make the breakthrough.
In saying that i do believe if they can make a break through they could give ulster a rattle as proven with their underage success.
Dungannon appear to be completely rebuilding, had a very good side late 90s to mid 00's but will be a while b4 they get back to that level...cookstown are a mid table div1 team, end off..too strong for intermediate but not strong enough to lift senior titles, at the mo. I know they put a big shift in this year to maintain senior status after being relegated the last time they came up. Be interesting to see if they can maintain this. Not sure what the score is with Strabane, big nationalist town yes, but soccer may be a factor there.
So all in all its difficult to see one of the big towns making a breakthrough anytime soon.
a fair enough summary, its been a long time since one of the big town clubs won the senior championship, and it doesnt look like there is one in the near future either.
Omagh the most recent in 1963 and 1988. 25 years ago! Was at that final