Tyrone club football in crisis

[Milltown Row2]

The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.

I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.

I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.

Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.

Ballinderry dont have a 3rds team and had to use a lot of minors in our reserves this year.

Cross have a seconds team and a B team which barely fields.  There is a serious misconception
that we have a huge pick and most of the players that come through arefroma few established families.  If you want touse arbitrary 10 year figure then Ulster club football as a whole is in crisis as we have won 7 of the  last 10 with only 2 other clubs winning, and 1 of those clubs never beat usin any attempt.   
Tyrone football is no different to Monaghan football,or Donegal football whereby there are a number of teams who have the ability to make the push to win the county but are just a step below the next level.  I wouldn't  say that is a crisis as the county is still competing at the lower level chmapionships consistently (asare Monaghan) an if anything that displays a healthy club scene as all levels are in good shape.   For all our dominace no other  club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.

Which will continue ffs!! We've won it twice got to 2 finals in that period but as said haven't beaten ya's. Our record is poor considering the amount of times we've been in the competition. The standard of teams in the semi stage are very good and anyone of them have a chance to win.

[Milltown Row2]

For all our dominace no other  club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.

Didn't Port Mor win the Ulster Club JFC last year?

I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.

Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.

The irony there is that the only Tyrone club with a 3rd team - Errigal Ciaran - also have a fourth team playing in the Division 3 Reserve league and they even won the Junior Reserve FC a few years ago. AFAIK Errigal are the only club in Ulster that field four adult sides.

Thats some going in fairness, we ran 3 teams in the ACL's, when all the games are fixed for same time it was a push but 90% of games were played, we also run a 4th team in the beer belly league. Cargin would have had 3 teams also, may still do. Which is grand as you should have places for lads to go if they are interested in staying on, either to push for the senior team or play every week competitively or to find a level that suits you.

Errigal must be a big parish

[LeoMc]

The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.

I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.

I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.

Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.

Ballinderry dont have a 3rds team and had to use a lot of minors in our reserves this year.

Maybe it is is Bellaghy I am thinking of. Did Ronan Rocks not make a thing about only playing 3rds when he transferred a few years ago.

[theticklemister]

The lack of Tyrone success at Ulster and All Ireland Senior Club level is down to the fact that no Tyrone Club team has had a core group of 6-7 top players at a given time. If you look through the Tyrone senior team panel over the past 15 years, you'll see that there are a huge number of clubs represented on the panel right down to Junior level - this is a very healthy thing - no player in Tyrone is overlooked if they are good enough - no matter how Junior or unfashionable the club. 15+ clubs are represented on the county panel regularly. It has been years since there's been a Tyrone panel without junior players. (McConnell, Gallagher, McCrossan, McGee, Gourley, Cassidy for example)
I think Moy are a great example of this. In the last 15 years they've had County players in Jordan, the Cavanaghs, Ryan Mellon and Colly Holmes. You'd expect a team with those players to have competed at Ulster and All Ireland level - unfortunately the Moy team are way, way off that pace and are flirting with relegation again because it's a small club, with a small catchment and they just don't have the players. In a 15 man sport, one or two players can't carry a team every week.

I don't think Tyrone football is in crisis at all. I love the fact that it is so competitive at all levels and that every player has a chance to represent their county if they are good enough.

I think that is it in a nut shell. The likes of Ballinderry & Cross have 3rds teams indicating a large panel of players to choose from. Only 1 club in Tyrone has a 3rd team.

Tyrone clubs do not do well in Ulster as they do not have the pool of players to pick from.

Ballinderry dont have a 3rds team and had to use a lot of minors in our reserves this year.

Maybe it is is Bellaghy I am thinking of. Did Ronan Rocks not make a thing about only playing 3rds when he transferred a few years ago.

bellaghy and magherafelt.

rocks played nets for the thirds for a bit I think!

[sheamy]

kinda disproves the theory all the same 

[EC Unique]

Thats some going in fairness, we ran 3 teams in the ACL's, when all the games are fixed for same time it was a push but 90% of games were played, we also run a 4th team in the beer belly league. Cargin would have had 3 teams also, may still do. Which is grand as you should have places for lads to go if they are interested in staying on, either to push for the senior team or play every week competitively or to find a level that suits you.

Errigal must be a big parish

What Errigal Ciaran have is their first team competing in the Tyrone ACL Division 1 (and the Tyrone SFC), their second/reserve team playing in the respective reserve league and championship, their third team competing in ACL Division 3 (and the Tyrone JFC), and their fourth or "thirds reserve" team playing in that respective reserve league and championship. Traditionally ACL games in Tyrone are on a Sunday afternoon with the reserve game having a 2.15pm throw-in and the senior game at 3.45pm. However Errigal Ciaran have an arrangement where their thirds team and their reserve counterparts usually play their game at a different time that weekend. When Carrickmore had a thirds team for a couple of years they had a similar arrangement. The reason for this is not to try and stretch panel resources, but more to allow club players, officials and supporters to be able to watch both sets of fixtures. Before the start of the season the club has to submit a list of 40 players that are tied only to the first and seconds/first reserves and can't play for the thirds or thirds reserves/fourths. In addition they have to supply an additional 12 names that cannot play for the thirds reserves/fourths as is standard for all clubs fielding a reserve team in their league. Any time I've seen the Errigal thirds play the numbers they bring to games aren't too shabby both on and off the pitch. What has now evolved for Errigal is that they now have effectively two separate panels, a senior and a junior panel. The senior panel concentrate on Division 1 & the Senior FC where its reserve team acts as a development squad for its first team. The junior panel is for players who either can't or won't commit to the demands of the senior panel along with some older players who still want to play competitively. The problem is for their thirds team is that their form varies wildly from one season to the next. They been at the foot of the Division 3 table for most of this season (they only picked up their first league point in their last game) whereas in the last few seasons they've been more competitive including reaching promotion play-offs. In the Junior championship, the best they've reached so far is the semi-final stage.

Our thirds panel is also used as a development stage for senior players. In this years Championship match against Dromore we had 2 players playing that were on our 3rds panel 2 years ago. Only for the 3rds they would probably not be playing the game at all anymore. It is difficult to keep numbers going but definitely worth while.

As for Tyrone clubs not doing well in Ulster club? Hard to know what is wrong. It takes a big effort to win Tyrone Championship and it is extremely physical where as Ulster rewards a team that plays good football. The Errigal sides that done well in Ulster were dripping with talent but sometimes struggled to get out of Tyrone.

[Milltown Row2]

Thats some going in fairness, we ran 3 teams in the ACL's, when all the games are fixed for same time it was a push but 90% of games were played, we also run a 4th team in the beer belly league. Cargin would have had 3 teams also, may still do. Which is grand as you should have places for lads to go if they are interested in staying on, either to push for the senior team or play every week competitively or to find a level that suits you.

Errigal must be a big parish

What Errigal Ciaran have is their first team competing in the Tyrone ACL Division 1 (and the Tyrone SFC), their second/reserve team playing in the respective reserve league and championship, their third team competing in ACL Division 3 (and the Tyrone JFC), and their fourth or "thirds reserve" team playing in that respective reserve league and championship. Traditionally ACL games in Tyrone are on a Sunday afternoon with the reserve game having a 2.15pm throw-in and the senior game at 3.45pm. However Errigal Ciaran have an arrangement where their thirds team and their reserve counterparts usually play their game at a different time that weekend. When Carrickmore had a thirds team for a couple of years they had a similar arrangement. The reason for this is not to try and stretch panel resources, but more to allow club players, officials and supporters to be able to watch both sets of fixtures. Before the start of the season the club has to submit a list of 40 players that are tied only to the first and seconds/first reserves and can't play for the thirds or thirds reserves/fourths. In addition they have to supply an additional 12 names that cannot play for the thirds reserves/fourths as is standard for all clubs fielding a reserve team in their league. Any time I've seen the Errigal thirds play the numbers they bring to games aren't too shabby both on and off the pitch. What has now evolved for Errigal is that they now have effectively two separate panels, a senior and a junior panel. The senior panel concentrate on Division 1 & the Senior FC where its reserve team acts as a development squad for its first team. The junior panel is for players who either can't or won't commit to the demands of the senior panel along with some older players who still want to play competitively. The problem is for their thirds team is that their form varies wildly from one season to the next. They been at the foot of the Division 3 table for most of this season (they only picked up their first league point in their last game) whereas in the last few seasons they've been more competitive including reaching promotion play-offs. In the Junior championship, the best they've reached so far is the semi-final stage.

Our thirds panel is also used as a development stage for senior players. In this years Championship match against Dromore we had 2 players playing that were on our 3rds panel 2 years ago. Only for the 3rds they would probably not be playing the game at all anymore. It is difficult to keep numbers going but definitely worth while.

As for Tyrone clubs not doing well in Ulster club? Hard to know what is wrong. It takes a big effort to win Tyrone Championship and it is extremely physical where as Ulster rewards a team that plays good football. The Errigal sides that done well in Ulster were dripping with talent but sometimes struggled to get out of Tyrone.

Burren are also dripping with talent and can't get out of Down lately, Glen in Derry are also dripping with great underage talent the last 3 years and couldn't win Intermediate this year, Clontibert dripping with talent and stuffed in Monaghan this year.

Is it the style of football that makes it difficult to win in Tyrone, i.e everyone behind the ball, low scoring, fouling? We found this to be the norm this year, in every game we played it was bodies behind the ball and stop start games with no great play developing. I think at HT in the Cargin semi it was 0-2 to 0-1!! Mental

[Armamike]

For all our dominace no other  club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.

Didn't Port Mor win the Ulster Club JFC last year?

They certainly did, first Armagh team to win at junior provincial level. And a good night was had on the back of it!

[brokencrossbar1]

Sure An Port Mor is nearly Tyrone anyway, that's why I forgot about them

For all our dominace no other  club has won at Provincial level at any grade since 1995.

Didn't Port Mor win the Ulster Club JFC last year?

They certainly did, first Armagh team to win at junior provincial level. And a good night was had on the back of it!

[Orchardman]

Club football in Tyrone arguably is in a crises, but certainly not for the reasons given by the OP. If that were the case Fermanagh club football would be up shit creek. 

Ok, a few lads have said this, I accept crisis is maybe too strong a word, it was used for banter reasons! still feel it was worth discussing, nothing else outside the ulster club worth talking about at the moment

[CD]

Club football in Tyrone arguably is in a crises, but certainly not for the reasons given by the OP. If that were the case Fermanagh club football would be up shit creek. 

Ok, a few lads have said this, I accept crisis is maybe too strong a word, it was used for banter reasons! still feel it was worth discussing, nothing else outside the ulster club worth talking about at the moment

What about 'a terrible state of chassis'?

[Fuzzman]

When you look at the stats
It looks like Cross only starting coming to the fore in 1996, 98 & 99. Was just wondering what are the main reasons for this in most people's eyes.
What did they change or how did they make such a big impact from there on?

Armagh clubs now have 14 Ulster titles with Derry having 11. You have to go back ten years for Derry's last win which was for an Lub.
Am I right to say most teams that win it have a huge pick of players that stay committed to the cause.

I suppose having Oisin & PTG helped their teams over the line a lot.

[LeoMc]

kinda disproves the theory all the same 

It does indeed. I should have remembered an argument from a few years ago where someone was saying Beragh (Div 3) had a bigger parish than Errigal.

[general_lee]

When you look at the stats
It looks like Cross only starting coming to the fore in 1996, 98 & 99. Was just wondering what are the main reasons for this in most people's eyes.
What did they change or how did they make such a big impact from there on?

Armagh clubs now have 14 Ulster titles with Derry having 11. You have to go back ten years for Derry's last win which was for an Lub.
Am I right to say most teams that win it have a huge pick of players that stay committed to the cause.

I suppose having Oisin & PTG helped their teams over the line a lot.

I guess it takes an exceptionally talented set of players to come along at once; with an exceptional level of dedication, commitment, discipline, belief and courage - attributes that Crossmaglen have in abundance. As well as all the talented players they have, they also have an almost telepathic understanding - they're one of the best drilled teams I've seen across any sporting discipline.

The thing with Cross is that they're able to adapt without their so-called main men. Oisín retiring, Jamie on his holidays, a number of injuries and they're still favourites. Most clubs would be decimated by that. I think Cross may struggle at the latter stages of the AI if/when they reach there, but Ulster should almost be a formality in my view.

[Wildweasel74]

Should this topic not just be on the tyrone county section/