Donegal vs Armagh Ulster Championship 2022

[Milltown Row2]

So where are these perfect amateur ref's? You red card him who comes in? What gets a red card for a ref?

[Itchy]

Lads, Armagh lost the game because ye played poorly and have a poor manager. The ref had zero bearing on the game. Some of ye spend your lives looking for the bogey man who's out to get you but hardly ever look at yourselves.

[armaghniac]

Not much between half way line and the 65s!

Indeed. This is not a very recent picture, but it hardly got longer. About 10m shorter than Croker, I would say,


In a somewhat related issue, several people have said that Armagh should have pressed up on the kick out in the first half. There was a strong wind, such a press risked Patton simply booting it over three quarters of the players and giving Donegal a run on the Armagh goal. There are many things did that Armagh did that were unwise, I am not certain that this was one of them.

[David McKeown]

You want the perfect ref David and you only list the contested  decisions that went against Armagh

Looking at it again, Maurice could not have seen how the goalie lost the ball, if ever he did have it under his control, but Rian was the player who was most in possession of the ball afterwards, at the very least he made contact once, twice  and then palmed it into the net.  It doesn't have the look of a clean strike of a loose ball.

He doesn't appear to be the one who palms it into the net to me. It seems to come off a Donegal player. The free though had already been awarded at that stage and I am really struggling to see why. but as is acknowledged coming as it did soo quickly from the throw in it was always going to be a difficult decision to make so I'm less annoyed with it than with some others.

I don't think I want the perfect ref because that doesn't exist. I do think though it brings up an interesting point. What kind of ref do we want. I remember talking to a friend about this years ago. He played at the highest level. I most certainly did not and was always taught you play to the referee. Ie  you want a ref who sets his stall out on early on things like tackles, number of steps and is consistent there after even if that means there's lots of frees and the game is disjointed. My friend always said that he didnt care if a ref was inconsistent throughout a game because he was getting things wrong. He much preferred a referee who made as few decisions as possible and let the game flow as much as possible even if that resulted in inconsistency.

On me highlighting the decisions that went against Armagh I completely agree but that's human nature. I was during the game far more acutely aware of decisions that were adverse to Armagh than those that weren't. And I don't think you can balance it out in that way.

[Milltown Row2]

The losing team are always more critical of the ref, that's standard. I could ref a team one week and the whole team shake hands and applaud your decisions, the next game they are foaming at the mouth and saying you're crap!

You've ref'd it the same way for every game, go figure

[balladmaker]

So where are these perfect amateur ref's? You red card him who comes in? What gets a red card for a ref?

You remove the ref from the system after post-game analysis has confirmed they made an error that was or could have been potentially game changing in the context of that game ... yes, it's harsh for an amateur referee, and it's also harsh when an amateur player has their season unduly altered by a bad decision from a ref.  As for what constitutes a potentially game changing decision e.g. awarding, or not, a penalty ... sending off, or not, a player ...  a series of one-sided decisions in a game etc. etc.

N.B. this ref. discussion is a tangent, and should not take away from Donegal's win, best team on the day won, no referee decision was going to change that yesterday.  Deegan is one of the better refs. around at the minute in my view, again this ref. discussion is not a direct reaction to yesterday, rather a culmative view that many refs. are getting it wrong.  For some reason, it's usually football ... hurling doesn't seem to have the same ref. notoriety ... nor player melee's for that matter.

[David McKeown]

So where are these perfect amateur ref's? You red card him who comes in? What gets a red card for a ref?

You remove the ref from the system after post-game analysis has confirmed they made an error that was or could have been potentially game changing in the context of that game ... yes, it's harsh for an amateur referee, and it's also harsh when an amateur player has their season unduly altered by a bad decision from a ref.  As for what constitutes a potentially game changing decision e.g. awarding, or not, a penalty ... sending off, or not, a player ...  a series of one-sided decisions in a game etc. etc.

N.B. this ref. discussion is a tangent, and should not take away from Donegal's win, best team on the day won, no referee decision was going to change that yesterday.  Deegan is one of the better refs. around at the minute in my view, again this ref. discussion is not a direct reaction to yesterday, rather a culmative view that many refs. are getting it wrong.  For some reason, it's usually football ... hurling doesn't seem to have the same ref. notoriety ... nor player melee's for that matter.

Largely agree with that although think Deegan was poor yesterday. The difficulty becomes was he game changing. If Rians goal stood Armagh might have come back into it but equally it may have galvanised Donegal to come again. Donegal we're far superior and I think they would have won no matter who the referee was.

[tonto1888]

Still feeling really down about that. Didn't expect to win but I didn't expect us to lie down and die either. No aggression whatsoever from us which was strange. Donegal thoroughly deserved winners.

On Deegan. He had no impact on the result whatsoever. A few of it fans around me getting very annoyed with him but I couldn't see why. Frustration at our own teams ineptitude maybe. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he was perfect and he got things wrong and was inconsistent I felt on a few things. As for the goal. I was too far away to see what happened and I haven't watched it back so don't know yet. I would say that Deegan seemed quite far away from it also. My twopence worth on him.

[Milltown Row2]

So where are these perfect amateur ref's? You red card him who comes in? What gets a red card for a ref?

You remove the ref from the system after post-game analysis has confirmed they made an error that was or could have been potentially game changing in the context of that game ... yes, it's harsh for an amateur referee, and it's also harsh when an amateur player has their season unduly altered by a bad decision from a ref.  As for what constitutes a potentially game changing decision e.g. awarding, or not, a penalty ... sending off, or not, a player ...  a series of one-sided decisions in a game etc. etc.

N.B. this ref. discussion is a tangent, and should not take away from Donegal's win, best team on the day won, no referee decision was going to change that yesterday.  Deegan is one of the better refs. around at the minute in my view, again this ref. discussion is not a direct reaction to yesterday, rather a culmative view that many refs. are getting it wrong.  For some reason, it's usually football ... hurling doesn't seem to have the same ref. notoriety ... nor player melee's for that matter.

In your county are there lads queuing up to be verbally abused from supporters and teams or  faceless online keyboard warriors?

Hmmm, let's put it this way we don't have a endless line of brilliant referees, nor do the GAA have the money to professionalise refereeing.. referees are assessed and based on those assessments a championship panel of referees are picked to do the games. They are their on merit, now it seems you'd prefer to go down the pecking order and have some that haven't met the standards and throw them into the white hot atmosphere of Ulster championship?

[David McKeown]

So where are these perfect amateur ref's? You red card him who comes in? What gets a red card for a ref?

You remove the ref from the system after post-game analysis has confirmed they made an error that was or could have been potentially game changing in the context of that game ... yes, it's harsh for an amateur referee, and it's also harsh when an amateur player has their season unduly altered by a bad decision from a ref.  As for what constitutes a potentially game changing decision e.g. awarding, or not, a penalty ... sending off, or not, a player ...  a series of one-sided decisions in a game etc. etc.

N.B. this ref. discussion is a tangent, and should not take away from Donegal's win, best team on the day won, no referee decision was going to change that yesterday.  Deegan is one of the better refs. around at the minute in my view, again this ref. discussion is not a direct reaction to yesterday, rather a culmative view that many refs. are getting it wrong.  For some reason, it's usually football ... hurling doesn't seem to have the same ref. notoriety ... nor player melee's for that matter.

In your county are there lads queuing up to be verbally abused from supporters and teams or  faceless online keyboard warriors?

Hmmm, let's put it this way we don't have a endless line of brilliant referees, nor do the GAA have the money to professionalise refereeing.. referees are assessed and based on those assessments a championship panel of referees are picked to do the games. They are their on merit, now it seems you'd prefer to go down the pecking order and have some that haven't met the standards and throw them into the white hot atmosphere of Ulster championship?

Would professionalising assist?  Genuine question not necessarily advocating for it but might it help?

[rodney trotter]

Donegal were good but not the team of old. They kicked a lot balls into the keepers hands in the first half.  Murphy still the leade  and will be hard replaced when he returns in a few years.  Jason McGee was impressive in the middle

Will Oisin Gallen be back for the Cavan game? He's been out for a few months

[Throw ball]

Armagh stayed the night in Jacksons- right in the middle in Ballybofey.

Would it not have been wiser to stay somewhere a few miles outside the town- less interactions with supporters staying for the match hyping them up and asking for photos etc?

Was in the lobby before the match and it was strange to see i thought

It's an unnecessary expenditure full stop. It's what, maybe just over an hour from Armagh City to Ballybofey. Americans would call them neighbouring towns.

David I think you're suffering a little there from trying to prove the hypothesis by any means necessary. Career defenders give away fewer fouls than converted defenders, largely because since they were nippers they've been learning week-in, week-out where the fine line lies between physical play and a foul, and also can read referees better from the early exchanges. Armagh had too many players on Sunday who aren't experienced enough at defending to judge that line as well.

Re Rian's disallowed goal. I saw it as charging into the keeper myself. Between that, the general acceptance that smashing a keeper in the small square isn't a done thing, the general confusion and the thrown ball, it's a free 99 times out of 100 with 99 referees out of 100. The exception being when a brave or biased umpire makes a name for himself.

As someone from Armagh City it took a brave bit more than an hour to get from Armagh to Ballybofey. Unfortunately there isn't a single player from the city near the team. If all the players are to meet to travel to match on the morning of game that is probably an extra half hour to travel to pick up point. At the very best that would be 2 and quarter hours driving time alone. That doesn't allow for match day traffic. Hardly ideal preparation.

Just thought I would argue about something else. Fed up with football at the minute .

[Wildweasel74]

About time half you boys took up the whistle to see what it's like. I went no further than ref U-16. Players weren't the problem, it was parents and supporters mouthing who didn't know the rules, Never seen as Many Armagh cry about the ref, give it a go to see how good you are. Donegal won fairly handy, if they were very good they wouldnt have missed so much in the first half. And the goal, the ball pulled out of the keeper hands.

[J70]

I'm just puzzled about what the ref was supposed to do yesterday about the goal. With slowed down close-up tv footage we can't even get agreement on what actually happened: was the ball stripped out of Patton's grip?; did O'Neill foul the ball after that in putting it in the net? As someone said earlier, 99/100 refs would have made the same call.

Had he given the goal Donegal supporters and, I expect, players would be up in arms (correctly IMO) that it should have been a free out.

Some people are in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to their expectations of referees.

[marty34]

So where are these perfect amateur ref's? You red card him who comes in? What gets a red card for a ref?

You remove the ref from the system after post-game analysis has confirmed they made an error that was or could have been potentially game changing in the context of that game ... yes, it's harsh for an amateur referee, and it's also harsh when an amateur player has their season unduly altered by a bad decision from a ref.  As for what constitutes a potentially game changing decision e.g. awarding, or not, a penalty ... sending off, or not, a player ...  a series of one-sided decisions in a game etc. etc.

N.B. this ref. discussion is a tangent, and should not take away from Donegal's win, best team on the day won, no referee decision was going to change that yesterday.  Deegan is one of the better refs. around at the minute in my view, again this ref. discussion is not a direct reaction to yesterday, rather a culmative view that many refs. are getting it wrong.  For some reason, it's usually football ... hurling doesn't seem to have the same ref. notoriety ... nor player melee's for that matter.

In your county are there lads queuing up to be verbally abused from supporters and teams or  faceless online keyboard warriors?

Hmmm, let's put it this way we don't have a endless line of brilliant referees, nor do the GAA have the money to professionalise refereeing.. referees are assessed and based on those assessments a championship panel of referees are picked to do the games. They are their on merit, now it seems you'd prefer to go down the pecking order and have some that haven't met the standards and throw them into the white hot atmosphere of Ulster championship?

Would professionalising assist?  Genuine question not necessarily advocating for it but might it help?

I think some of the rules in gaa are difficult/interepted in different ways e.g. the tackle.

Or even that goal on Sunday - I think it was taken from the keeper's arms but others say not.  Even with 4 or 5 views and slowed down etc. there's still debate.

Compare to rugby rules (I think we should always look at/use other sports' ideas) gaa is very ambigious.

As well as that, supporters don't know half the rules...me included.