Messages

Did Dooher say that Ruairi Canavan broke his finger in the warm up? Disappointing if he is going to he missing for a spell when we're trying to settle him into the team.

Liam Gray broke his finger pre match. Canavan was sick

Thanks GlenMan. Hope Gray isn't out too long.

Did Dooher say that Ruairi Canavan broke his finger in the warm up? Disappointing if he is going to he missing for a spell when we're trying to settle him into the team.

Sludden was a great servant and a really classy player, always a pleasure to watch. All the best to him.

No idea what to expect the next few months. Perhaps the key thing is to see real signs of a new team emerging. We looked like a rudderless ship the last couple of seasons.

[Tyrone]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

I think you missed the point i was hoping  to make.

IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.

Well that's fair enough but I don't think you can really credibly suggest a game was "men against boys" when there was nothing in it until the final seconds. I'm not convinced the physical difference was as great as you suggest either. Certainly McGuinness had taken Donegal's fitness and strength levels up several notches and Tyrone by that point were a (great) team in decline, but if the physical gap was as vast as men and against boys then Tyrone wouldn't have got close. In reality they probably should have had the game won before the late Donegal goal.

Tyrone08 is bang on about McGuinness getting in Mickey's head during that era though. His latter years with Tyrone were spoiled by trying to copy the super defensive model and even make it more defensive, while failing to find the balance with attack against better opponents. It was never anywhere near as effective as the best McGuinness Donegal teams (and perhaps not as effective even as Gallagher's Derry in recent times). That and the fact he hasn't won a big game in Croke Park since 2008 make him an intriguing choice for a Derry team still seeking that ideal balance and how to win the big games. I digress, but it's certainly going to be interesting.

[Tyrone]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

Terrific defender and a real rock for Tyrone over many years. A little unfortunate with the general malaise in the team since 2021 that we didn't make the most of having him around for those final years of his time with Tyrone but that doesn't take away from what has been a great career. 1 All Ireland (and another final and several semi final appearances) 3 Ulsters and an All Star is an excellent haul. He has also handled himself extremely well off the field and been a great help to many. He'll be missed by Tyrone for sure.

International game returns tomorrow at Pairc Esler and live on TG4. GAA seem to be taking it more seriously with several articles on the website the last few days and a few top tier players selected. There were a few years there pre Covid where it got very little prominence at all. Hopefully it will be a good contest.

The idea of the Scots being upset over perceived Irish arrogance is utterly hilarious.

There's a distinct difference between belief in ability and arrogance. Nobody in the Ireland team was going out saying they already had Scotland beaten. Equally, it had been forever since they lost to Scotland, so the idea that they weren't allowed to be confident is nonsense. I called a 20 pt win on this thread because anyone able to look at it objectively could see that Ireland are a miles better side than them. Ireland as a nation don't do confidence particularly well, and almost never arrogance.

Also, if you want to talk about the misplaced arrogance of gobshites, only one team in the last few years had Stuart f**king Hogg playing for them, and it wasn't Ireland.

As for them not being bothered about Ireland losing to the ABs, I'd expect them, like pretty much everyone else, to not give the slightest f**k once their own team was out. I'd have loved to see Fiji or Argentina win it, but I'll not care in the slightest when they don't

I don't think the perceived arrogance was down to Ireland expecting to beat Scotland. As you say Ireland were quite entitled to feel extremely confident about beating Scotland for the simple reasons that they have better players, better coaches and a long winning run against the Scots. Scotland under Townsend consistently talk a good game yet deliver very little and their performance against Ireland was laughably bad.

However there is without doubt a feeling (way beyond Scotland, I just used that example since I live there) that there is a arrogance around this Irish team when they haven't delivered on the very biggest stage. NZ or Springbok arrogance at least has something to back it up. Now perhaps that's down to Ireland not doing confidence well as you suggest and coming across badly (funnily enough I think that might be the case with the aforementioned Hogg who I believe is actually a rather sensitive and misunderstood individual), perhaps it's down to jealously from other nations - after all people don't always like seeing perennial underdogs stepping forward and becoming big guns, or perhaps it's something else altogether. Ireland don't have to care but you don't have to look too far to see it exists.

[Rugby World Cup Semi-Final Appearances.]

Courtesy of Ewan McKenna....

Rugby World Cup Semi-Final Appearances.

New Zealand 9
Australia 6
England 6
France 6
South Africa 6
Argentina 3
Wales 3
Scotland 1

Impressive when you consider Ireland is zero. Scotland with a poor record in the World cup also.

Between them France and England have 12 semi final appearances and one title.
6N failure is at every level. It's not just us
Scotland won a qf against Samoa . Jammy bastards

That Scotland team in 1991 were a brilliant side. They had won the GS the year before then pushed the All Blacks very close in a series over there. Western Samoa were a very capable team too, they knocked Wales and Argentina out at the group stage and lost narrowly to Australia. Wasn't an easy QF at all at the time. Scotland then lost 12-6 in the semi after missing a penalty right in front of the posts at a key time. Probably won't ever get a better chance at winning the whole thing. Should have made another semi in 2015 though, robbed by a horrendous last minute refereeing decision against the Wallabies. I'm not convinced Scotland really underachieve in rugby to be honest, people turn out for the internationals but if you dig deeper the thing is built on sand and while there are some good home grown players they rely a lot on imports too. Even when the football team was shite for years and rugby team was doing OK the support for the teams can't be compared at all.

As for Ireland you probably don't care, but on the point mentioned here about perceived arrogance around Irish rugby I certainly picked up on plenty people in Scotland who felt that way and weren't bothered that Ireland lost to the All Blacks, when traditionally they would have been solidly behind Ireland.

Harte gets credit for the 3 All Irelands but no word of the 3 or 4 he left on the table. He had the greatest generation of footballers Tyrone ever produced and won only 3 all Irelands with them. Kerry who Tyrone were far better than won 5 between 2000 - 09.

Tyrone won those All Ireland's in spite of him, not because of him.

This just isn't credible. Mickey was indeed fortunate that a great generation of players came along (to be honest his record as minor manager was very mixed until they arrived and he was perhaps lucky still to be in that job at that point) but he was also absolutely key in nurturing those players and ensuring Tyrone got so many of them through from successful minor teams to senior success. They believed in him and were extremely well prepared. The 2005 team was absolutely superb and Mickey as manager and leader was absolutely fundamental, you can't seriously suggest otherwise. I don't think you can credibly claim either he left loads of titles behind. 2004 wasn't realistic given what happened. The injuries in 2006 would have finished any team and the legacy of that meant 2007 was very unlikely too.

That takes us too his greatest achievement, building a team in 2008 which didn't have all the stars of previous years but was more than the sum of its parts. Mickey again fundamental. Funnily enough it was also the start of his decline. Rather than develop that team he tried to go back to the returning stalwarts and Tyrone were never as good. 2009 and 2010 were definitely there for the taking but Tyrone went backwards from 2008. He subsequently failed to make the most of strong under age teams and went down the road of trying to out do McGuinness with a defensive style his team never perfected, ending up with a team that was micro managed and scared to deviate from the script. 2021 saw a team released from the shackles and playing with freedom.

He was the perfect charismatic figure to lift an underachieving county like Louth and the gig got Louth up a couple of leagues and gave Mickey's reputation a nice boost, but I didn't see any evidence that his style had evolved. I can't see him developing Derry much there either, best hope is that his leadership and experience is able to knock them on a level or two on the big days.

Tyrone were top table for every year of Mickey Hartes 18.
The win their 4th all ireland with a team Harte had put together and shaped.
He then took a Division 4 Team and left them in 3rd spot of Division 2.
I don't know if he can take Derry over the line but i do believe he is the best man fir the job.

He certainly had a big input into the team that won the fourth All-Ireland - strength and conditioning in particular - but they also certainly wouldn't have won it with him in charge. He was absolutely spooked by McGuiness in early 2010s to the extent he changed his style to try and replicate the ultra defensive model. He could never do it anywhere near as effectively McGuiness though (or Gallagher's Derry for that matter) and just limited Tyrone. We beat teams we'd have beaten anyway with a more expansive style and didn't beat anyone really good - which is the only reason you'd adopt such a style. His last truly landmark Tyrone championship wins were in 2008. There was the embarrassing 2017 semi when Tyrone conceded an early goal and had no idea what to do thereafter. The game was gone after 5 mins. On then reaching the final in 2018 he threw out everything he had based the team on and went all out attack for the first 30 mins - absolute desperation stuff which showed up the flaws of his previous rigid plan - and had the game lost by half time. It was so telling in the wake of 2021 that a number of Tyrone players spoke of playing with a freedom and feeling able to take on shots and passes which would have resulted in them being subbed under the suffocating regime of Mickey in the last few years. He stayed on a few years too long in Tyrone.

I think he probably knew there wasn't much more mileage in Louth and this is a good time to cash in and take a job with a stronger team. Don't believe for a second it's got anything to do with money - he will he absolutely determined to try and win another title. But I do really question if he is really the man to kick Derry on - his glory days at the highest level are a pretty long way off now. He's a controversial figure and hard to argue with everything he says and does but I also believe he has also often been an inspirational figure, with the way he has handled terrible loss and helped others in similar situations being particularly impressive.

It's a bold call anyway - from Mickey and Derry - and it's going to be fascinating to watch it unfold.

Their playing careers and being part of a management team that delivered an U21 All Ireland then a senior All Ireland in their first season make Brian Dooher and Fergal Logan Tyrone greats forever. Must be said though, the last two years have been rather shambolic. If you take away their previous achievements and look at those seasons you might well wonder was this management team badly out if its depth at senior inter county level. Can only conclude the new term is based on everything that happened until 2022. That's fair enough. I think they've got a pretty easy ride over the past two seasons though based on their previous achievements. Staying on means they will need to improve massively to avoid very serious questions over their management. That applies to the county board too now.

More importantly on a day like today, thoughts with Art McRory's family on his passing. An incredible servant of Tyrone GAA and a visionary who was instrumental in the rise of the senior county team from also rans to All Ireland contenders. As the banner said, How Great Thou Art. RIP.

Congratulations to the Dubs on another All Ireland, deserving winners.

I think 1 AI in three years and remaining in Div 1 throughout that time  - gives enough credit in bank.
It will be a bit of a rebuild job regardless of who is in the hot seat.

On the surface that looks very good and well worth another term. In reality after year one - and winning that AI was a magnificent effort - Tyrone have been a mess and regressed massively. I could accept a couple of mediocre seasons in other circumstances but there has been no sign of any cohesive plan unfortunately and the team has under performed hugely given the quality of player available. Sorry to say it but I don't see any evidence at all to suggest the current management team deserve more time.

Blasé BS. Why don't you get down to the soecific of why the management are to blame and not the players.
You talk about quality of players.
Should  they have won an All Ireland this year  under different management ?
Should players have been played in different positions}
Should other players have been played iand where? 
Tell us why we didn't win the All Ireland this year

I didn't expect Tyrone to win an All Ireland this year. I did hope to see a well organised team compared to the shambles of last year, a team that would compete well in league and championship. We all know the talent is there and if Tyrone play as they can then they can give any team in the country a game. Instead it was much the same as last year, listless and no obvious gameplan. The only two real positive performances were Kerry in the league and Donegal in the Championship, and Donegal were a mess. We lost in the first round of Ulster from a position of strength. Galway I'll excuse as Frank Burns sold the jerseys. Armagh we almost threw away against 14 men, from a position of strength. Westmeath was a very lucky escape, again when the game was effectively won a few minutes earlier. Then Donegal which gave some false hope, then an embarrassing collapse against Kerry.

You can blame the players if you want, perhaps some did indeed lack the same desire. There was a lack of leadership on the field at times and too often it fell to Mattie Donnelly in particular and a couple of notable others to provide that. Management didn't help on occasion by replacing these leaders with rookies at key times. Even knackered leaders had more to offer in seeing out games. But others on the field need to step up. Ultimately however, it's the responsibility of the management to prepare the team, provide leadership and ensure they get something close to the best out of the players they have at their disposal. Tyrone the last two years were considerably less than the sum of their parts. We didn't expect All Irelands but we didn't expect a string of shambolic performances either. If you believe this was acceptable then fair enough but I'm yet to see anybody make a credible case for the management team getting another chance based on how poor Tyrone have been post 2021. Have a shot if you want and be as specific as you like.

As for the point about Darragh, it's utterly moronic to think he was going to say anything else.

I think 1 AI in three years and remaining in Div 1 throughout that time  - gives enough credit in bank.
It will be a bit of a rebuild job regardless of who is in the hot seat.

On the surface that looks very good and well worth another term. In reality after year one - and winning that AI was a magnificent effort - Tyrone have been a mess and regressed massively. I could accept a couple of mediocre seasons in other circumstances but there has been no sign of any cohesive plan unfortunately and the team has under performed hugely given the quality of player available. Sorry to say it but I don't see any evidence at all to suggest the current management team deserve more time.