FAI...June 2024 Friendlies v Hungary and Portugal

[Baile Brigín 2]

In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

[thewobbler]

Excellent post Itchy.

BB the comparison isn't apt. A county minor squad management takes "control" of their players only after the school football season ends. They've then got 6-8 weeks to prepare for a knockout championship match, and for half the intercounty minor players in Ireland that's the sum of their commitment. And for most of that 6-8 week period they'll be playing and training with their club team too.

Even for those lucky enough to get two seasons of county minor, there's limited continuation. The process stops when they're knocked out. Then starts again the following Feb.

[shark]

In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

My county certainly does. Beggars can't be choosers.

There is no issue with kids becoming sport specific at a certain age. It has to happen at some point for the most talented, if they want to reach to top.  I'm no expert as to what that age should be, but it certainly shouldn't be 12 or 13 like is being mentioned above.
I know a few lads who were on the FAI/LOI track as teenagers. The post above about training sessions being no fun is one I have heard from them all. They wanted to make it their #1 sport, but ultimately they just enjoyed it more in their GAA club.

[Itchy]

In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

[Baile Brigín 2]

In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

My county certainly does. Beggars can't be choosers.

There is no issue with kids becoming sport specific at a certain age. It has to happen at some point for the most talented, if they want to reach to top.  I'm no expert as to what that age should be, but it certainly shouldn't be 12 or 13 like is being mentioned above.
I know a few lads who were on the FAI/LOI track as teenagers. The post above about training sessions being no fun is one I have heard from them all. They wanted to make it their #1 sport, but ultimately they just enjoyed it more in their GAA club.

I misread and thought you were talking about 15/16 year olds. Agreed 12 is way too young for specialism.

[sid waddell]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

[Baile Brigín 2]

In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

[Baile Brigín 2]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

[shark]

In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

Yeah he actually said 15 and 12 (when referring to his own son) in the same post.

[clonadmad]

Carty the rugby player was handy in soccer and GAA at 17  but chose rugby. Both soccer and rugby need to broaden the player base. As long as the GAA plug the Dublin model most players from other counties won't win anything. Soccer and rugby have an opportunity.

More people play soccer than football, hurling and rugby combined....

Any figures?

Its aged but there are newer surveys with broadly the same results. On the phone so this will do

https://www.esri.ie/publications/sports-participation-and-health-among-adults-in-ireland

Page 22.

Soccer 13%, 5 a side 4%.. 17% adult male participation.

Football 8%, hurling 5%, rugby not listed as under 1%. So 14%

17 > 14.

The ESRI methodology slightly skewed the numbers with participation in 5 a side

When those numbers were compiled I was in my early 40's,played 5 a side twice a month,long retired from hurling but to class me and others like me as soccer players in those numbers would be well wide  of the mark

It also shows a gap in the market for half pace hurling and football for us ould lads who have no other avenue available bar 5 a side soccer

[Baile Brigín 2]

Also the comparison with England is unfair. Where does the game rank amongst similar sized countries?

Denmark   5.79
Finland   5.54
Slovakia   5.46
Norway   5.42
Ireland   4.94
Croatia   4.11
Moldova   4.03
Bosnia & Herzegovina   3.28
Albania 2.9

The answer is in the middle.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Carty the rugby player was handy in soccer and GAA at 17  but chose rugby. Both soccer and rugby need to broaden the player base. As long as the GAA plug the Dublin model most players from other counties won't win anything. Soccer and rugby have an opportunity.

More people play soccer than football, hurling and rugby combined....

Any figures?

Its aged but there are newer surveys with broadly the same results. On the phone so this will do

https://www.esri.ie/publications/sports-participation-and-health-among-adults-in-ireland

Page 22.

Soccer 13%, 5 a side 4%.. 17% adult male participation.

Football 8%, hurling 5%, rugby not listed as under 1%. So 14%

17 > 14.

The ESRI methodology slightly skewed the numbers with participation in 5 a side

When those numbers were compiled I was in my early 40's,played 5 a side twice a month,long retired from hurling but to class me and others like me as soccer players in those numbers would be well wide  of the mark

It also shows a gap in the market for half pace hurling and football for us ould lads who have no other avenue available bar 5 a side soccer

Ok. Remove 5 a side and tag rugby.

The same number of people play soccer as football, hurling and rugby combined.

[clonadmad]

In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

You have 12 year olds going to the Dublin school boy clubs from outside Dublin and one condition for them to come on board is that they give up other sports

[sid waddell]

Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team

Why not?

Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.

Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

[Baile Brigín 2]

In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

You have 12 year olds going to the Dublin school boy clubs from outside Dublin and one condition for them to come on board is that they give up other sports

I'm not sure I believe that as schoolboy clubs are bound by geography