joe kernan...over-rated?

mattockranger · January 13, 2009, 12:12:59 PM

had a conversation well argument with a number of armagh lads over the weekend
it was in relation to joe kernan being a GREAT, and a LEGEND of a manager.

I thought he was a good manager and felt those words are over used these days the lads were furious!!

my argument was that he only won one all-ireland with armagh yeah sure enough you can say thats greatness alone how many have louth one recently blah blah blah
but i feel with the forwards he possessed, the best in ireland at the time he should have won more......and my fault with joe is
why was he so defensive when he had such a set of forwards

I know his feats at club level but this was more based on his ability at inter county level.

your views gentlemen please!

T Fearon · January 13, 2009, 12:19:59 PM

Definitely thought that the 2004 All Ireland was Armagh's for the taking and the quarter final defeat to Fermanagh was inexcusable (the two Brians would have been hung from the spires of the Cathedral in Armagh for this), and Joe inherited a talented and experienced squad in the first place in 2002, unlike the shambles inherited by the two Brians in 1996, yet within three years they had produced Ulster Champions for the first time in 17 years. Still with 3 club titles and one county title Joe must be considered more than just a good manager.

balladmaker · January 13, 2009, 12:26:22 PM

A GREAT club manager.....a GOOD county manager.

As they say about teams, good teams win one, great teams win two. Surely the same must apply to managers.

orangeman · January 13, 2009, 12:32:26 PM

Definitely one of the greats !

illdecide · January 13, 2009, 12:35:38 PM

There is no doubt he is a good manager but i def think he let slip def 1 if not another 2 All Irelands for Armagh. Ask McGeeney about it...

under the bar · January 13, 2009, 12:36:08 PM

Will never be remembered in the same legendary vein as Micko, Heffo & Mickey Harte but one of the better ones nonetheless.

haveaharp · January 13, 2009, 12:43:52 PM

2003- overly defensive tactics against Tyrone - playing Philip Loughran where he did etc cost Armagh AI
2004- weakest championship for a decade - too complacent against fermanagh 5 hr training session the Thursday night before a Saturday match - cost Armagh AI
2005- Took Geezer off and opened up the red sea for Tyrone - cost Armagh AI

He cost Armagh a 4 in a row

orangeman · January 13, 2009, 12:58:32 PM

Quote from: haveaharp on January 13, 2009, 12:43:52 PM
2003- overly defensive tactics against Tyrone - playing Philip Loughran where he did etc cost Armagh AI
2004- weakest championship for a decade - too complacent against fermanagh 5 hr training session the Thursday night before a Saturday match - cost Armagh AI
2005- Took Geezer off and opened up the red sea for Tyrone - cost Armagh AI

He cost Armagh a 4 in a row

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Pure class !

Zulu · January 13, 2009, 01:00:29 PM

Quotetoo complacent against fermanagh 5 hr training session the Thursday night before a Saturday match - cost Armagh AI

That's not true is it?

goh4205 · January 13, 2009, 01:23:28 PM

Quote from: Zulu on January 13, 2009, 01:00:29 PM
Quotetoo complacent against fermanagh 5 hr training session the Thursday night before a Saturday match - cost Armagh AI

That's not true is it?

it sure is.

Canalman · January 13, 2009, 01:23:53 PM

Would personally rate him very highly. Should get great credit for breaching that psychological barrier to win Armagh's first AIF. Had very good players but then again alot of counties imo with similiar talent haven't won Sam. Stevie McD however was imo the catalyst for the breakthrough, with McConville a distant second......and a solid supporting cast.

In comparison,we here in Dublin could have done wth JMcK in charge.

billy the kid · January 13, 2009, 02:23:27 PM

Quote from: balladmaker on January 13, 2009, 12:26:22 PM
A GREAT club manager.....a GOOD county manager.

As they say about teams, good teams win one, great teams win two. Surely the same must apply to managers.

I agree with that. Achieved amazing things with Cross at club level, but he inherited a Good Armagh team who had been knocking on the door for a couple of years. He also failed to develop the team IMHO over the rest of his tenure, with the same 18 or so players making up his teams and real subs and the rest only playing in bits and pieces with no real chance of getting a proper go at it.

I would however seriously question the logic that Joe Kernan cost Armagh a heap of AIs.

2003 - (Tyrone) Beaten by a better team. FULL STOP!

2004 - (Fermanagh) Armagh far to confident and arrogant (and that includes all you supporters) and were beaten by a better team on the day.

2005 - (Tyrone) Beaten by a slightly better team, but game could have gone either way. (great game)

2006 - (Kerry) Armagh far to confident and arrogant (and that definately includes all you supporters) Beaten by a much better team.

2007 - (Derry) Armagh again thinking they were alot better than they actually were and lost a tight game.

Armagh players have to take at least some of the blame in some of these games for not showing opponents enough respect/ being over confident/ not performing.
Many Armagh supporters have to take a look at themselves as their expectactions are unrealistic at times and their 'we are Armagh and we are better than anyone else' attitude is bound to rub of on players.

The GAA · January 13, 2009, 02:28:01 PM

Quote from: billy the kid on January 13, 2009, 02:23:27 PM
2004 - (Fermanagh) Armagh far to confident and arrogant

2006 - (Kerry) Armagh far to confident and arrogant

2007 - (Derry) Armagh again thinking they were alot better than they actually were and lost a tight game.

Armagh players have to take at least some of the blame in some of these games for not showing opponents enough respect/ being over confident/ not performing.

I'd be interested to hear how you know these things to be true?

billy the kid · January 13, 2009, 02:32:18 PM

Its called an 'opinion' GAA look it up in the dictionary.

rrhf · January 13, 2009, 02:32:24 PM

My opinion on Joe Kernans status is the following. I have yet to hear anyone who has actually achieved more than him in management describing him as overrated but I will revise my opinion when I hear this. I usually only hear North Armagh types describing him as overrated, or even yer man Uladh, Pints of Guinness and the other disaffected South Armagh folks. Armagh people are obsessed with ratings and how they are viewed... see their desperate quest for 2 all irelands when they were lucky enough to get one.