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An Watcher · October 30, 2019, 09:49:22 PM

I would have thought drunk driving is a much worse offence than sleeping in the back seat

From the Bunker · October 30, 2019, 10:14:07 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 30, 2019, 10:07:47 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on October 30, 2019, 09:49:22 PM
I would have thought drunk driving is a much worse offence than sleeping in the back seat
He was badly injured, at the wrong age, and was going to be no use to them.

This is not a moral decision, this is a book keeping decision.

David McKeown · October 30, 2019, 10:26:09 PM

I think though Derby could be in big trouble here. It's hard for them to say that this was a Gross Misconduct that should result in termination and also say but it won't be termination if you take a big pay cut. Either it was grounds for termination or it wasn't. I should add I think it was but from what we know so far I would be concerned for Derby.

Dougal Maguire · October 30, 2019, 11:05:00 PM

Hardstation, I never realised you were a legal man.

Itchy · October 30, 2019, 11:31:36 PM

Business decision. They probably know he'll do them for unfair dismissal and he will win however it will be cheaper than having a man on his salary suit out the end of his career in the bench. However, whatever mistake he made, that's a shitty way to treat club captain and long serving player.

Baile Brigín 2 · October 30, 2019, 11:36:37 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on October 30, 2019, 10:14:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 30, 2019, 10:07:47 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on October 30, 2019, 09:49:22 PM
I would have thought drunk driving is a much worse offence than sleeping in the back seat
He was badly injured, at the wrong age, and was going to be no use to them.

This is not a moral decision, this is a book keeping decision.

A bit of both I think

David McKeown · October 31, 2019, 08:50:23 AM

Quote from: hardstation on October 30, 2019, 10:37:01 PM
Unless it says in his contract, "If you injure yourself acting a knob, we're cutting your wages for the duration that you are not available for selection. If you don't accept that, you can fcuk off."

If the contract gave them the option to cut his wages like that then it would be very strange that it would also require him to agree.

Also I doubt any Tribunal if it found in his favour would ever award less than the remaining value of the contract unless he found a new club first. Which manager was it sued Newcastle a few years ago for constructive dismissal and got more than the value of their contract?

JohnDenver · October 31, 2019, 09:19:46 AM

Quote from: David McKeown on October 31, 2019, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 30, 2019, 10:37:01 PM
Unless it says in his contract, "If you injure yourself acting a knob, we're cutting your wages for the duration that you are not available for selection. If you don't accept that, you can fcuk off."

If the contract gave them the option to cut his wages like that then it would be very strange that it would also require him to agree.

Also I doubt any Tribunal if it found in his favour would ever award less than the remaining value of the contract unless he found a new club first. Which manager was it sued Newcastle a few years ago for constructive dismissal and got more than the value of their contract?

Almost sure that was Sam Allardyce. The talk was after it he built a villa in spain using the payout, and it was labelled Casa St. James.

lurganblue · October 31, 2019, 11:13:34 AM

Bad doing that. The two drunk drivers aren't sacked but the passenger is.

Taylor · October 31, 2019, 11:27:59 AM

I am more shocked that anyone is surprised at this.

Football is a business now - it isnt about loyalty or anything like it.

The two drunk drivers are worth money so they wouldnt sack them.

Keogh should and will get money for unfair dismissal (unless something specific in his contract) but I assume they have worked it out that it will be cheaper to pay him off rather than him finish his career on the bench.

David McKeown · October 31, 2019, 01:36:59 PM

Quote from: Taylor on October 31, 2019, 11:27:59 AM
I am more shocked that anyone is surprised at this.

Football is a business now - it isnt about loyalty or anything like it.

The two drunk drivers are worth money so they wouldnt sack them.

Keogh should and will get money for unfair dismissal (unless something specific in his contract) but I assume they have worked it out that it will be cheaper to pay him off rather than him finish his career on the bench.

I'd be very surprised if it was. I doubt agents lawyers etc would allow players to sign what would effectively be non guaranteed contracts.

Itchy · October 31, 2019, 03:16:11 PM

Quote from: Taylor on October 31, 2019, 11:27:59 AM
I am more shocked that anyone is surprised at this.

Football is a business now - it isnt about loyalty or anything like it.

The two drunk drivers are worth money so they wouldnt sack them.

Keogh should and will get money for unfair dismissal (unless something specific in his contract) but I assume they have worked it out that it will be cheaper to pay him off rather than him finish his career on the bench.

Thats true, but normally they like to publicly masquerade as being loyal to captains, long serving players and fans. Of course its all shite. Even your average soccer fan down the pub in Derby is sure to see this for what it is, a cruel calculated financial decision.

Baile Brigín 2 · October 31, 2019, 03:21:29 PM

Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 31, 2019, 11:27:59 AM
I am more shocked that anyone is surprised at this.

Football is a business now - it isnt about loyalty or anything like it.

The two drunk drivers are worth money so they wouldnt sack them.

Keogh should and will get money for unfair dismissal (unless something specific in his contract) but I assume they have worked it out that it will be cheaper to pay him off rather than him finish his career on the bench.

Thats true, but normally they like to publicly masquerade as being loyal to captains, long serving players and fans. Of course its all shite. Even your average soccer fan down the pub in Derby is sure to see this for what it is, a cruel calculated financial decision.

I think sympathy for him is thin on the ground.

Ultimately he can't play because of off the field stupidity, thats generally sackable in pro sport. The pay cut offer is strange and does muddy things

Itchy · October 31, 2019, 04:49:21 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on October 31, 2019, 03:21:29 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 31, 2019, 11:27:59 AM
I am more shocked that anyone is surprised at this.

Football is a business now - it isnt about loyalty or anything like it.

The two drunk drivers are worth money so they wouldnt sack them.

Keogh should and will get money for unfair dismissal (unless something specific in his contract) but I assume they have worked it out that it will be cheaper to pay him off rather than him finish his career on the bench.

Thats true, but normally they like to publicly masquerade as being loyal to captains, long serving players and fans. Of course its all shite. Even your average soccer fan down the pub in Derby is sure to see this for what it is, a cruel calculated financial decision.

I think sympathy for him is thin on the ground.

Ultimately he can't play because of off the field stupidity, thats generally sackable in pro sport. The pay cut offer is strange and does muddy things

No one is questioning that but I think we all know he would not have been sacked if he was say 25 years old.

rodney trotter · October 31, 2019, 06:51:02 PM

He wasn't sacked initially, he, was given the offer of reduced wages while out injured , declined, so they sacked him. Why would Derby pay his full wages for over a year in a injury which happened when he was drunk? At least Lawrence can contribute on the field and is an asset. As is the other fella.