McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Uladh]

Listen the players broke that seal of trust within a camp to tarnish Gerald Mc Carthy and leave him as the sacrificial lamb to get at Frank Murphy.  They have been bitching about Mc Carthy for much of the past few weeks and its because they want the head of Frank Murphy true or false.
Heres one for you - now please answer straight.... At what actual point do you deem a county hurling panellist to have risen above their remit, when do you deem them to be out of order?   

How did the players break the "seal of trust"?

Are you really now, at this stage, "speculating" that the players want FM? have you no grasp of the genesis of the row?

the question about players rising above their remit is a nonsensical one that cannot be answered. at what point do you believe that they did?

[rrhf]

This row has been brewing for some time Uladh and long before GMcC was manager.  It just needed an incident to bring forth the wrath that we have witnessed.  I dont see how it is in anyones interest to support these players unless they feel solidarity in a GPA sorta way.   

[Uladh]

Well that is an opinion you are well entitled to hold.

i'd be interested if youwould answer the two questions above

[Reillers]

The bottom line is Zulu the players cannot be seen to win in this dispute because of the way the have conducted themselves. By that I mean mainly, the way the have collectively decided to strike rather than walk away whilst they hung around for all their demands to be met. I'll not dispute they may feel they have issues with the current structures, but the GAA cannot be seen to defer to such behaviour. From my point of view its as simple as that, regardless of the rights and wrongs in all of this. I do believe that they will have lit a fire cracker up the ass of the CCB that will stimulate them to do more thean they are to improve the way they run the GAA in Cork and that will be the legacy of this dispute. But for now the players cannot win.

Why not Skull? What 'appalling vista' will this open up? If FM has deliberately sabotaged his county's chances of fulfilling it's potential for a generation out of petty malice, how can he be seen to win?
If the players were right in 2002 (which they were imo) they are right now and regardless of ultimate outcome of this dispute I admire them for their resolution. The fire cracker was lit in 2002 and FM slid into the long grass to wait his chance. Nothing will change if he wins here.

Skull wants everyone to toe the line, act like sheep, even if things are blantantly wrong, follow the good old status quo, because God forbid someone might (rightfully break this.) In Skull's mind the old way though unbelievably flawed is the only way.
He doesn't want the players to win this one because God forbid it would be breaking the status quo and it would mean the players have a voice and the shut up or put up, it's broken but we don't care way of the GAA, the good old system, God forbid somebody wins against that.
Baa baa baa.

[dowling]

"The GPA is standing full square behind the players and will support them in anything they want to do," said GPA spokesperson Sean Potts.
That's from last year's dispute. And also,
"This is a point of principle for them and one we support. They are very united. ...and the GPA will help them if that help is needed."
Now is there something different this year that has caused the GPA to become unconcerned? Maybe the threat of losing grants admist the credit crisis? Although the language and tone of it is very similar to that of the 2008 panel. By their very nature the GPA has to be involved here in some capacity and at present the only reason not to be openly involved would be a fear of detracting from the players' projected image of unity and this being now about the inner workings of Cork GAA. Have Dessie and Donal og been in contact? How can they not have been?
This is what is wrong with some of the 'pro' posters here. They keep saying this isn't black and white and can't work out the bigger picture. What's happened is the hurlers thought they would get their way as happened last year. In spite of their criticisms of the county board there may as well not be one if the hurlers can determine outcomes, or the footballers. The present mess in Cork is because the 2008 panel wanted to decide who  couldn't be manager so two years in a row we have two cliques pursuing their own agendas. The state of Cork didn't enter this debate until GMCC and the county board reufused to give in to the strikers demands. We wouldn't have heard a word from Donal og about the centre of excellence, it's only entered the debate because the strike action didn't pay the dividends they thought it might. Trying to make out this is a crusade on behalf of the GAA people in Cork is a load of nonsense. Certainly Donal og might want a centre of excellence and might even make a worthwhile contribution towards that end but the present bitterness in Cork is a result of one thing and one thing only, that the 2008 panel didn't get their way. Will they be supporting the 2009 panel? Would they even offer some advice to those players or even coaching so they can best represent Cork. And will the GPA fully support the 2009 panel in wanting to play in the same way they supported players not wanting to play?

[Uladh]

"The GPA is standing full square behind the players and will support them in anything they want to do," said GPA spokesperson Sean Potts.
That's from last year's dispute. And also,
"This is a point of principle for them and one we support. They are very united. ...and the GPA will help them if that help is needed."
Now is there something different this year that has caused the GPA to become unconcerned? Maybe the threat of losing grants admist the credit crisis? Although the language and tone of it is very similar to that of the 2008 panel. By their very nature the GPA has to be involved here in some capacity and at present the only reason not to be openly involved would be a fear of detracting from the players' projected image of unity and this being now about the inner workings of Cork GAA. Have Dessie and Donal og been in contact? How can they not have been?
This is what is wrong with some of the 'pro' posters here. They keep saying this isn't black and white and can't work out the bigger picture. What's happened is the hurlers thought they would get their way as happened last year. In spite of their criticisms of the county board there may as well not be one if the hurlers can determine outcomes, or the footballers. The present mess in Cork is because the 2008 panel wanted to decide who  couldn't be manager so two years in a row we have two cliques pursuing their own agendas. The state of Cork didn't enter this debate until GMCC and the county board reufused to give in to the strikers demands. We wouldn't have heard a word from Donal og about the centre of excellence, it's only entered the debate because the strike action didn't pay the dividends they thought it might. Trying to make out this is a crusade on behalf of the GAA people in Cork is a load of nonsense. Certainly Donal og might want a centre of excellence and might even make a worthwhile contribution towards that end but the present bitterness in Cork is a result of one thing and one thing only, that the 2008 panel didn't get their way. Will they be supporting the 2009 panel? Would they even offer some advice to those players or even coaching so they can best represent Cork. And will the GPA fully support the 2009 panel in wanting to play in the same way they supported players not wanting to play?

Surely Gerald is taking care of that?

Is there a point to your post Dowling?

[dowling]

If Jesus Christ himself came down from heaven to make a point to you Uladh and some others you would miss it.
The whole of Cork is suffering because of last year's panel and the situ looks destined only to worsen. When you take an action or back an action you have to understand where it may lead. Is the present mess in Cork what the 2008 panel or posters wanted?

[Uladh]

I'll ask again...

"The GPA is standing full square behind the players and will support them in anything they want to do," said GPA spokesperson Sean Potts.
That's from last year's dispute. And also,
"This is a point of principle for them and one we support. They are very united. ...and the GPA will help them if that help is needed."
Now is there something different this year that has caused the GPA to become unconcerned? Maybe the threat of losing grants admist the credit crisis? Although the language and tone of it is very similar to that of the 2008 panel. By their very nature the GPA has to be involved here in some capacity and at present the only reason not to be openly involved would be a fear of detracting from the players' projected image of unity and this being now about the inner workings of Cork GAA. Have Dessie and Donal og been in contact? How can they not have been?
This is what is wrong with some of the 'pro' posters here. They keep saying this isn't black and white and can't work out the bigger picture. What's happened is the hurlers thought they would get their way as happened last year. In spite of their criticisms of the county board there may as well not be one if the hurlers can determine outcomes, or the footballers. The present mess in Cork is because the 2008 panel wanted to decide who  couldn't be manager so two years in a row we have two cliques pursuing their own agendas. The state of Cork didn't enter this debate until GMCC and the county board reufused to give in to the strikers demands. We wouldn't have heard a word from Donal og about the centre of excellence, it's only entered the debate because the strike action didn't pay the dividends they thought it might. Trying to make out this is a crusade on behalf of the GAA people in Cork is a load of nonsense. Certainly Donal og might want a centre of excellence and might even make a worthwhile contribution towards that end but the present bitterness in Cork is a result of one thing and one thing only, that the 2008 panel didn't get their way. Will they be supporting the 2009 panel? Would they even offer some advice to those players or even coaching so they can best represent Cork. And will the GPA fully support the 2009 panel in wanting to play in the same way they supported players not wanting to play?

what point were you trying to make, or what contribution were you trying to make to this thread with the above post?

[RedandGreenSniper]

I went to the bother of watching the entire press conference last night (thanks for the link Reillers).

A number of things to comment on

1, I really don't believe younger players are being forced to stay in the panel, at least not the lads who spoke. They might regret their actions in time, I don't know, but that's a different matter. They believe what they are doing now is right.

2, On the issue of Gerald McCarthy's management, he does seem to be below par. I think the standards of the Cork panel are unfeasibly high. People might say they should be but the reality is unless they get Brian Cody in charge, they are never going to have another Donal O'Grady/John Allen at the helm. They were, for want of a better word, spoiled by the sheer professionalism and thoroughness of the two boys, O'Grady in particular, and it was  hard to see who else could match this. Jerry O'Connor points out about the clip being shown to the panel prior to the Tipp game of the Tipp fans celebrating after beating Cork the previous year and how this was a 'joke' in terms of what they were trying to achieve. Now its not from the Vince Lombardi school of sports psychology but its not a bad idea either. Appealing to players by showing their bitter rivals celebrating. For JOC to describe it as a joke shows how unrealistic the players expectations are.
On the other hand the stories told by Timmy McCarthy about Ger McCarthy not knowing his club and the obvious questions that poses; the story told by the sub keeper (Mark Cronin?) about how he didn't know his name is frigtening. Also Ger Fitzgerald going on holidays for a month mid season seems bizarre too. All of which combines to give me the impression of a management that's not quite top level.

Which brings me to this.

The bottom line is Zulu the players cannot be seen to win in this dispute because of the way the have conducted themselves. By that I mean mainly, the way the have collectively decided to strike rather than walk away whilst they hung around for all their demands to be met. I'll not dispute they may feel they have issues with the current structures, but the GAA cannot be seen to defer to such behaviour. From my point of view its as simple as that, regardless of the rights and wrongs in all of this. I do believe that they will have lit a fire cracker up the ass of the CCB that will stimulate them to do more thean they are to improve the way they run the GAA in Cork and that will be the legacy of this dispute. But for now the players cannot win.

Why not Skull? What 'appalling vista' will this open up? If FM has deliberately sabotaged his county's chances of fulfilling it's potential for a generation out of petty malice, how can he be seen to win?
If the players were right in 2002 (which they were imo) they are right now and regardless of ultimate outcome of this dispute I admire them for their resolution. The fire cracker was lit in 2002 and FM slid into the long grass to wait his chance. Nothing will change if he wins here.

Skull wants everyone to toe the line, act like sheep, even if things are blantantly wrong, follow the good old status quo, because God forbid someone might (rightfully break this.) In Skull's mind the old way though unbelievably flawed is the only way.
He doesn't want the players to win this one because God forbid it would be breaking the status quo and it would mean the players have a voice and the shut up or put up, it's broken but we don't care way of the GAA, the good old system, God forbid somebody wins against that.
Baa baa baa.

I agree with Skull on this. The players have been wronged. True. Gerald McCarthy isn't the best man for the job. True. But if the players get their way by the route they are going down, it does set a dangerous precedent for the GAA. I know pro-players posters will say the situation is different in Cork than everywhere else. But if they players get their way the dangerous precedent is quite simple - if a panel isn't happy with a manager, this route will be open to them. We all have had cases of certain level of frustration with management at club and county level but this nuclear option is not an appealing vista.
What does need to be done in the GAA is that clubs need to take more ownership of their county board. Its not as bad by any means in Mayo as it is in Cork but delegates are, by and large, quiet in Mayo, just go with the flow. That needs to change so the GAA is more democratic. That's my opinion but players can't force this kind of thing. The GAA community at large has to do this. Time will tell if the GAA community in Cork wants change or are happy with things as they are (and they're entitled to whichever course they choose because, lets face it, FM has been good for Cork on a lot of levels too).
But the decision to strike is not the way to go (and it is a strike, regardless of what terminology they might use).
Its a confusing issue, far from black and white but a very important one for the GAA as a whole and that is why there are so many non Cork posters contributing to this debate here.

Two other sidelines from the press conference - did Paschal Sheehy do something against the players? John Gardiner fairly tore into him. And my God the priest! Sean Og looked like he wanted to kill him.

[theskull1]

The bottom line is Zulu the players cannot be seen to win in this dispute because of the way the have conducted themselves. By that I mean mainly, the way the have collectively decided to strike rather than walk away whilst they hung around for all their demands to be met. I'll not dispute they may feel they have issues with the current structures, but the GAA cannot be seen to defer to such behaviour. From my point of view its as simple as that, regardless of the rights and wrongs in all of this. I do believe that they will have lit a fire cracker up the ass of the CCB that will stimulate them to do more thean they are to improve the way they run the GAA in Cork and that will be the legacy of this dispute. But for now the players cannot win.

Why not Skull? What 'appalling vista' will this open up? If FM has deliberately sabotaged his county's chances of fulfilling it's potential for a generation out of petty malice, how can he be seen to win?
If the players were right in 2002 (which they were imo) they are right now and regardless of ultimate outcome of this dispute I admire them for their resolution. The fire cracker was lit in 2002 and FM slid into the long grass to wait his chance. Nothing will change if he wins here.

Skull wants everyone to toe the line, act like sheep, even if things are blantantly wrong, follow the good old status quo, because God forbid someone might (rightfully break this.) In Skull's mind the old way though unbelievably flawed is the only way.
He doesn't want the players to win this one because God forbid it would be breaking the status quo and it would mean the players have a voice and the shut up or put up, it's broken but we don't care way of the GAA, the good old system, God forbid somebody wins against that.
Baa baa baa.

In time young Reillers you will realise that there are other ways to crack a nut other than using a sledgehammer (especially if you want to enjoy it afterwards). I repeat Not Sheep. 

[dowling]

I can only apologise for any confusion I'm causing you Uladh. Perhaps if you considered the questions I posed that could be a starting point.
Anyway from today's Irish Times

"Meanwhile, Gaelic Players Association chief executive Dessie Farrell has rejected criticism his group has failed to engage with the crisis in Cork, pointing out a statement supporting the players was issued in the early stages of the dispute and that the association's fair play awards announcement was dominated by considerations related to the dispute.

"We've commented on the situation," he said, "and see our function as advising and consulting rather than intervening. If the Cork hurlers said they wanted us to become more involved then obviously we'd talk about it, but it is their call. If we could come up with a solution we would pursue it further. Obviously, we want to see this resolved.""

I just wonder if there's more involvement than they're letting on or how far reaching is the advice element.

[Malone Aristocrat]

Course you do

[cornafean]

there are other ways to crack a nut other than using a sledgehammer (especially if you want to enjoy it afterwards)

The Cork dispute summed up in a single line...

[dowling]

That's right malone, do you not?

[rrhf]

On an aside to this all, with the so called Cork B team representing their county in the GAA, I wonder do the GPA offer advice and support to them.  Or is only to the so called Cork A team ie the status quo of Cork players.