The Budget and Lenihans 'call to patriotic action'

[bcarrier]

Lads,

Will ye calm down about crucifying min wage workers.

In Dundalk a min wage worker working a 35 hour week will get 8.65 x35 = 302.75 . The 1% levy and 20% tax after basic allowances takes him off 50.03 euro  . Net pay =252.72 euro. Effective ROI tax rate is 16.5%.

A min wage worker in Newry working 35 hours would get 250.68 euro gross and pay tax and ni of 42.97 . net is 207.71  ( a coversion rate 1.25 used) The Dundalk min wage worker has 45 euro or 22% more take home than his Newry equivalent. The effective uk rate of tax is 17.1%

There is of course another issue about the level of benefits ...

[the Deel Rover]

The same could be said of investors fron NI and England buying holiday homes and property in the south as well Donagh sterling was strong against the euro and they just bought the houses for money that the locals in the Area wouldn't dream of paying .

Aye, but my argument is that a property tax might have taken the extremes out of this and prevented a crash to the extent we are seeing now.

ah ye i see what your saying donagh that it would have cooled the market if it was introduced ,that people would have put a little more thought into buying a second property if they realised there was a tax attached to it as well

[mylestheslasher]

Lads,

Will ye calm down about crucifying min wage workers.

In Dundalk a min wage worker working a 35 hour week will get 8.65 x35 = 302.75 . The 1% levy and 20% tax after basic allowances takes him off 50.03 euro  . Net pay =252.72 euro. Effective ROI tax rate is 16.5%.

A min wage worker in Newry working 35 hours would get 250.68 euro gross and pay tax and ni of 42.97 . net is 207.71  ( a coversion rate 1.25 used) The Dundalk min wage worker has 45 euro or 22% more take home than his Newry equivalent. The effective uk rate of tax is 17.1%

There is of course another issue about the level of benefits ...

A pointless comparison since the cost of living in the North is much less  than the south. With the exception of fuel, almost everything is currently cheaper in the North. Thats why huge numbers from Dundalk go to Newry shopping. People living further south don't have that luxury.

[bcarrier]

How is it pointless.

Might the inflated minimum wage not have something to do with the perceived increased cost of living in the south .

My Kevin Myers moment ...

Most trips north are to purchase drink .

[mylestheslasher]

How is it pointless.

Might the inflated minimum wage not have something to do with the perceived increased cost of living in the south .

My Kevin Myers moment ...

Most trips north are to purchase drink .

Take a trip to Enniskillen and you'll find the Erne Side shopping center and ASDA full of Cavan/Leitrim people and they are not buying drink. I assume Newry/Strabane are the same. They are buying their groceries for the week - not drink. How is the minimum wage in the South inflated? It is a pityful amount to earn.

[bcarrier]

It is inflated by international standards - 2nd highest in EU . I dont actually have a major problem with it but do think it is completely overtstating the case to say that people been crucified because they have to pay 3.03 more tax per week . We have become a nation of cabbage patching doom forecasting moaning minnies.

[muppet]

I am always amazed at how many vested interest groups always look for new taxes to be raised from other vested interst groups.

Charity groups want higher taxes on the rich = more tax exiles
IBEC extremists want lower social welfare payments = more crime
Greens want to introduce a carbon tax = less money for everyone
Revenue want to introduce a parking space tax = a tax on having a job in a city

We should all be demanding no new taxes at all and a reduction of what we have.

The comment about Michael O'Leary above is just naive. Most of the partnership talks are taken up by 'Ryanair issues' which if I divulged here I would join the infinite list of Ryanair High Court cases. But never underestimate the stupidity of the people, remember the Germans, or a third of them anyway, voted for Hitler.  

[mylestheslasher]

It is inflated by international standards - 2nd highest in EU . I dont actually have a major problem with it but do think it is completely overtstating the case to say that people been crucified because they have to pay 3.03 more tax per week . We have become a nation of cabbage patching doom forecasting moaning minnies.

You can say that but it is all relative. Only Iceland and some scandinavian countries are as expensive as Ireland in my experience. A lower minimum wage in Poland would be fine as the cost of goods and services is equally low. But it is more than income tax too. How does our VAT rate compare to the rest of europe. I believe it is 17.5% in UK, 19% in Germany, 19.6 in France. 21.5% in Ireland. Look at the services in these countries compared to us. We are probably one of the highest taxed countries in Europe if you take all into consideration. Yet our services are woeful.

[mylestheslasher]

I am always amazed at how many vested interest groups always look for new taxes to be raised from other vested interst groups.

Charity groups want higher taxes on the rich = more tax exiles
IBEC extremists want lower social welfare payments = more crime
Greens want to introduce a carbon tax = less money for everyone
Revenue want to introduce a parking space tax = a tax on having a job in a city

We should all be demanding no new taxes at all and a reduction of what we have.

The comment about Michael O'Leary above is just naive. Most of the partnership talks are taken up by 'Ryanair issues' which if I divulged here I would join the infinite list of Ryanair High Court cases. But never underestimate the stupidity of the people, remember the Germans, or a third of them anyway, voted for Hitler.  

O Learys comment might have been extreme but anyone who thinks that the public service is lean and is working efficiently is living in dream land. The HSE is a union dominated dinosaur of an organisation. Even the FF junior minister in the area admitted this a few weeks back. It is such a mess and such a drain on resources that it needs radical overhaul. I'd go as far as to say it needs to be knocked down and rebuilt. FAS is a joke, a black hole for money with almost zero output. These are obvious to me and many other commentators. No private company could exist with this sort of carry on. We have a government that is afraid to tackle the issue as they fear a backlash at the polls from the public sector workforce and the unions. Of course FF main policy is to get re-elected no matter what and every thing else is a secondary concern. We need politicians with balls and we don't have that at the moment.

[muppet]

I am always amazed at how many vested interest groups always look for new taxes to be raised from other vested interst groups.

Charity groups want higher taxes on the rich = more tax exiles
IBEC extremists want lower social welfare payments = more crime
Greens want to introduce a carbon tax = less money for everyone
Revenue want to introduce a parking space tax = a tax on having a job in a city

We should all be demanding no new taxes at all and a reduction of what we have.

The comment about Michael O'Leary above is just naive. Most of the partnership talks are taken up by 'Ryanair issues' which if I divulged here I would join the infinite list of Ryanair High Court cases. But never underestimate the stupidity of the people, remember the Germans, or a third of them anyway, voted for Hitler.  

O Learys comment might have been extreme but anyone who thinks that the public service is lean and is working efficiently is living in dream land. The HSE is a union dominated dinosaur of an organisation. Even the FF junior minister in the area admitted this a few weeks back. It is such a mess and such a drain on resources that it needs radical overhaul. I'd go as far as to say it needs to be knocked down and rebuilt. FAS is a joke, a black hole for money with almost zero output. These are obvious to me and many other commentators. No private company could exist with this sort of carry on. We have a government that is afraid to tackle the issue as they fear a backlash at the polls from the public sector workforce and the unions. Of course FF main policy is to get re-elected no matter what and every thing else is a secondary concern. We need politicians with balls and we don't have that at the moment.

Believe me I have no problem with a radical overhaul of the public service.

[FermGael]

Take a trip to Enniskillen and you'll find the Erne Side shopping center and ASDA full of Cavan/Leitrim people and they are not buying drink. I assume Newry/Strabane are the same. They are buying their groceries for the week - not drink. How is the minimum wage in the South inflated? It is a pityful amount to earn.

As someone who lives in the town, the amount of people comming from the South is unreal.  The congestion out the Sligo Road on a Saturday and Sunday is awful and its mostly Southern traffic going into Erne Side, Asda and Tesco.  I Know one of the managers in ASDA and they have been doing great business since they relocated and went 24 hr.  They have had to increase the amount and frequency of deliveries because of demand from the South.  People are buying alot of drink but they also seem to be doing alot of grocery shopping as well.  Have stood in Asda and witnessed people spending over £400 on groceries.  They seem to be making the trip once a month and stocking up. 
Also what is the fascination with ASDA??  Tesco would not do half the business that ASDA does.

[bcarrier]

I got these off nationmaster.com. It is total taxation as % of GDP.

#1   Sweden: 54.2 % of GDP  
#2   Denmark: 48.8 % of GDP  
#3   Finland: 46.9 % of GDP  
#4   Belgium: 45.6 % of GDP  
#5   France: 45.3 % of GDP  
#6   Austria: 43.7 % of GDP  
#7   Italy: 42 % of GDP  
#8   Netherlands: 41.4 % of GDP  
#9   Norway: 40.3 % of GDP  
#10   Germany: 37.9 % of GDP  
#11   United Kingdom: 37.4 % of GDP  
#12   Canada: 35.8 % of GDP  
#13   Switzerland: 35.7 % of GDP  
#14   New Zealand: 35.1 % of GDP  
#15   Australia: 31.5 % of GDP  
#16   Ireland: 31.1 % of GDP  
#17   United States: 29.6 % of GDP  
#18   Japan: 27.1 % of GDP  
Weighted average: 39.4 % of GDP    

As Ireland GDP is in decine and tax going up we might move up a bit but tax is relatively low. Brokencrossbar addresses a number of differences between ireland and Uk on the economic case for united ireland thread.

Im going to do some work now but do think a chance to stimulate economy was missed. I would  personally be in favour of a property tax based on value on residential property combined with the abolition of  VAT on new homes for first time buyers. There would have made new homes more affordabale and had an be immediate positive effects on residual land values ( the banks toxic assets). Probably not acceptable politically and would have been seen as a builders bail out.

[Lar Naparka]

How is it pointless.

Might the inflated minimum wage not have something to do with the perceived increased cost of living in the south .

My Kevin Myers moment ...

Most trips north are to purchase drink .

I think if a tax on bullsugar had been introduced, Kevin Myers would have considerably less to say.
That guy has long passed the stage where he considered himself mortal and now act ass if he thinks his pontificating should be taken as ex cathedra. I think Myers delights in publicity and won't let fats ever get in the way of his prejudices.
On my road, I can count at least three householders where the monthly run to Newry is part of the routine and God knows how many others in the area are dong the same.
It's a case of heading to Sainsbury's or to the Buttercrane and stocking up with toilet rolls and washing powder and the likes for them.
I don't imagine that drink is a major consideration either.
Even if Myers got it right in the case of some who go North for alcohol, I still say he is missing the point; time was when the same people would head for a trendy pub and buy their poison, be it daiquiris or pints of Guinness over the counter.
Newry is a lovely spot and I go there regularly, but it's not for cheap booze.
Dental charges are so much cheaper there that it is worth my while to put €20 in the tank and head up.
Myers can keep his opinions and I'll not part with any of my money if I can help it.

[mylestheslasher]

I'd like Joe Kinnear to take on Myers in a press conference.

Myers - You're a C*nt.

Thats it in a nutshell for myers as far as I'm concerned.

[magpie seanie]

I slightly disagree. I just think that Myers loves arguing and the less support he gets the better from his point of view. He likes stirring people up and finding ways to argue even silly causes. He might not believe it himself but I think he sees himself as such an intellectual that he sets himself these challenges. That might convert in many peoples eyes to "C**t" but I'll be honest I find him mildly amusing at times.