FERMANAGH V DOWN Preliminary Round USFC

[Leo]

FFS Leo will you give over about John Boyle ? are you waiting for someone to say you were right about him all along ? If only our problems began and ended with one player .
I'll agree that the farce of naming Mickey Mouse teams is a complete waste of time and energy and the inclusion  or not of Benny and Dan Gordan would be the only interest to opposing teams , managers or supporters when reading Down team selections . Name the team on a Thursday after training like everyone else and leave it at that , POR was crucified by everyone for not having a plan B , but here we are 3 yrs on and we are still lumping it in on top of Benny . We all know how special he is as a player for Down but  when he is clearly not fit or on other days when he is being well marked the management have to be able to say right this isn't working .
I think I heard Pete McGrath's name mentioned about 5 times in the time it took to get  from behind the goals to the gate yesterday , The supporters have clearly lost whatever confidence they had left in Ross and DJ and unless they put together a miracle run in the qualifiers you would have to say their time is up .

Congratulations to Fermanagh , fully deserved their win yesterday . Hope they can go on and win  Ulster now .

Have to agree with most of what you say (including rebulke to myself) but my main point at this stage is that Ross & DJ should not be given the option of taking the team to the qualifiers. We have learned all we need to know about this management and nothing is served by keeping them in place, quite the opposite. Having admired both as great players it is not easy to state this opinion but as the saying goes "facts is facts".
It is not a question  of Pete or POR returning at this stage, it is a matter of damage limitation between now and the start of the next season. Ross & DJ have NOTHING to contribute to that process.

[D4S]

Seriously disappointed with the game lads.  First off this ridiculing by some of individual players is highly uncalled for.  Confidence is low enough I'm sure at the minute and I know many read this forum, so ridiculing them on here is uncalled for.  They are being selected to play for Down, they aren't running up to the management + saying please pick me.  If selected to play they then have to implement the managers team strategy and do what is asked of them.  The team selection yesterday was wrong, and I'd imagine many of the players knew this themselves.  So many playing out of position without any league game experience was a major risk.  So many risks shouldn't be taken when it comes to the 1st round of the Championship because unless all the players have complete faith in themselves + the strategy you will get found out!

Unfortunately yesterday the long ball option never worked and was never changed which is ridiculous they never looked like a TEAM, whereas Fermanagh did.  The buck has to stop with Ross + DJ.  Seriously in 3 years we are no better than we were under Paddy O' Rourke.  We all thought in Newry last June things were on the up they were going to change.  Look where we are 11 months later.  They've tried and failed, gave it 3 years now is the time to step aside.  1 thing that makes me angry though is the ommission of John Clarke + Michael Walsh from the panel never mind the starting 15, it's disgraceful.  Confidence is going to be so low going into the qualifers, I believe a new manager ( Pete McGrath temporarily) over the next 6 or 7 weeks would get them motivated for a qualifier run if the draw is favourable, and get them boys at least in if they'll even come back at this stage.  Thanks to Ross + DJfor all the time and effort they have put in over the last 3 years but it's just not working.  Experience is needed at this stage.

Congratulations to Fermanagh you've done it again, you have belief, workrate, good management and now a free taker (although none were overly dificult).  Really hope you go on to the Ulster Final this year and give it another rattle I wish you the best of luck!  As for the Down boys head's down train like hell for the next 6 or 7 weeks and try to restore a bit of pride, and hope for a favourable draw. Good Luck.

PS I'm just about dried out, those showers were brutal!!

[Mourne Rover]

While strange things sometimes happen with county managers, it is highly unlikely that Ross and DJ are going to walk at this stage. They will know, if they are honest with themselves, that they were part of the problem yesterday, and their pride alone will push them to at least some form of recovery in the qualifiers.

They will probably reckon that, with Dan, Benny and Ambrose regaining match fitness, a favourable draw will still present an opportunity. However, realistically, Sunday's display was so bad that only the remote prospect of a run to the quarter finals would keep them in charge next year.

The county board will wait and see, but only an unexpected revolt by the players would produce some form of intervention now.

However, the Autumn, with Pete McGrath ready and presumably waiting, will be a different story.

[Logan]

I do think Ross could have shook McGraths hand though ... game was over.

[behind the wire]

D4S, you are dead right, no need to be criticising players on here. no player goes out to have a bad game. i think that the lack of game plan and the obvious confusion in the team means that the lads are always going to find it difficult to fulfill their potential in a county shirt.

the issues raised by posters following yesterdays game are exactly the same as the issues which were raised by the likes of trevor hill and panguarban during the league i.e. lack of settled team, any type of system and the fact that they don't even look like a team that has played together before.

having travelled to roscommon, longford and enniskillen i think i have completed my penance for the year and would very much doubt that i could endure sitting through a similar performance in the qualifiers (which looks inevitable at this stage)

[D4S]

While strange things sometimes happen with county managers, it is highly unlikely that Ross and DJ are going to walk at this stage. They will know, if they are honest with themselves, that they were part of the problem yesterday, and their pride alone will push them to at least some form of recovery in the qualifiers.

They will probably reckon that, with Dan, Benny and Ambrose regaining match fitness, a favourable draw will still present an opportunity. However, realistically, Sunday's display was so bad that only the remote prospect of a run to the quarter finals would keep them in charge next year.

I agree Mourne Rover I don't expect them to go, was just giving my opinion on the matter.  Felt seriously sorry for the lads at fulltime yesterday as I know they were probably more frustrated and disappointed than any of the few thousand fans who did travel.  Aidan Carrs frustration blew over with the incident with McGrath.  Have to say I disagree with Ross saying he made a meal of it, he got straight back up, if someone shoves you from behind when you're not expecting it you will probably go down.  However I thought the red was harsh!

[panc56]

Firstly I'm not from Down but my other half is. I've seen this team quite a number of times over the last five years and yesterday was a shambolic performance in championship football. No one Down player could walk off that field with his head held high and said he had given everything on the field. I think people totally misjudged how good Fermanagh are. Not the greatest of footballers but they have a very good team who are playing to their collective strengths. Their manager must be one of the best considering his playing pool. On paper Down are a superior team but paper counts for nothing.
Secondly what the hell was the team selection about, guys out of position, others wearing wrong jerseys etc etc , you could see that the players were very unsure of their positions throughout the game. It's impossible to win games with only 30-40% possession. Lond ball into a big full forward line is all well and good if the ball going in is of quality and if you have the Gooch!
Anyway let the players back to their clubs for the next few weeks, and play a few rounds of the club championship to get their appetite back. Last chance saloon for the management - the team yesterday was tactically confused and playing with no confidence. Thats the managemnets fault.

[Joe Umbrella (hey)]

Very very dissappointing yesterday, yet again the same mistakes that have been occuring year after year now.

The obvious problem with this Down team is a pure lack of brains, they have loads of Ability - some quality accurate forwards, any number of strong midfielders and it appears now a decent looking defence.
The defence or lack of it has been murdered in the press for years now and to an extent rightly so. But looking back on last year against Armagh and Wexford and again yesterday it was our forwards particularly around the 40 that let us down. Down appeared to have nobody yesterday capable of picking a pass inside to Benny and McComiskey. The amount of ball given away in the Fermanagh half was unforgivable and as a consequence Fermanagh were able to mount attack after attack which was more obvious in the last quarter when they won the game.

Its simple if Down had Rodgers, Walsh and Doyle or even Clarke in the half forward line - players with composure and brains, Down would have won. But these lads were'nt available for selection yesterday and those who played instead just are not good enough. Whetheror not this is the managers fault will become irrelevant after the next defeat. (Unless maybe its an A/I final).

Here is my take on the team:

McVeigh: Nothing to do
Howard: Tight and Solid as usual
Turley: Despite giving away a couple of frees (out of 57) A good presence at f/b and his man only really had an influence on the game through his free taking.
Rafferty: Tight and solid as usual
Duffin: Not a bad debut for a youngster, looks rugged and uncompromising and kept his opponent close.
Rooney: This ones a bit of a puzzle, started off at CHB then midfield, and appeared in a wing half forward position a couple of times in the 2nd half.  Clearly a decent player but whats his best position? Would prefer Murphy at half back.
Garvey: Like Duffin he is what we have been crying out for - a real defender. Did nothing special on the ball but never gave his man much room to make an impact.
Big Dan : Not at his best but still influnential in patches, probably shaded his battle with Murphy but it was probably the other Fermanagh midfielder that stole the show with his 3 pts from play.
Kearney: Did'nt offer much yesterday, one of those who seems to be lost out there at times
Murtagh: A great scoring f/f at club level with undoubted talent but was also lost out there. Can't fault his workrate and won some breaking ball, but gave the ball away too many times and ran into cul de sacs as always.
Carr: Sending off really summed up his day, one of the guys I thought capable of feeding our inside  forwards with decent ball just did't turn up. Usually a consistant performer.
Hughes: The jury's still out on this one, his workrate was impressive and at times tortured the Fermanagh defence. But equally at times lost possession and ran into no mans land. Danny is as good as there is when driving down the wings, but when he's not doing that he's making frustrating mistakes.
McComiskey: Felt sorry for im - Starved of quality ball, will no doubt have bigger days ahead of him
Fitzpatrick: Good first half however had his work cut out trying to pick the nothing balls out of the sky in the 2nd half .
Benny: Should'nt have been near the place - clearly injured I just hope no futher damage has been done. Scored a wonder point.


Good luck to Fermangh, I hope they can go to an Ulster final however they will get it tight against some of the more composed and efficient teams.

[Armamike]

You could see after 20 mins of the game that Fermanagh were going to win - they were playing like a team, Down weren't.

I'm on the wrong side of 40 now and i think this is the worst Down team i've ever seen, certainly since the first Down sides i saw in the late 70s.

[Joe Umbrella (hey)]

You could see after 20 mins of the game that Fermanagh were going to win - they were playing like a team, Down weren't.

I'm on the wrong side of 40 now and i think this is the worst Down team i've ever seen, certainly since the first Down sides i saw in the late 70s.

Your probably right, defeats this year to Limerick, Cavan, Tipp and now Fermanagh would confirm this and throw in the defeat to Cross in a friendly. I know friendlies don't count for shit and Cross are a decent side, but they are a club side - a f**king club side!

I'm usually positive and try to refrain from critcising the players and management, but I like many attended all the above games (apart from Limerick) and kept telling myself it'll be all right we'll do the business in the summer as I have done for years now. But somethings drastically wrong, good underage teams, talented players but a senior side that looks lost, players that can't make the right decisions, no confidence, no ideas, no mangement, no gameplan, no settled or consistant player selection. Its all a bit chaotic to say the least.

Any way in the true tradition of the species that is the Down fan, if we have Ambrose,McKernan, Benny and Doyle back and fit for the qualifiers then we have a great chance of a decent run! Come Down get your bets on 66/1 for Sam - bet of the century!  

[Main Street]

Breen 7.5: Done well, but in 2nd halfs some kick outs were poor

Some of the ones I saw (in between naps) from the hand in the 2nd half were excellent.
Found his man in plenty of space, which I suppose more reflects on the Down marking.

[down6061689194]

I suspect most of those criticising Turley were watching on tv rather than attending the game. Watching from the stand you could see that he brought a physical presence to our defence which had been missing in the league, was solid under high balls and showed a fair amount of pace. Carson scored a single point from play against him, and got a couple of generous frees as well, but our problems today were much further out the field.

Well put. The ball he slapped from the man as soon as he got and busted to get to the break keep it in and pass it off was exactly what Down need in a defender. Nothing Fancy. Big Brute. Win the ball. Straight to half back. No questions asked.

I agree very much that
-New Managers in place before the next game, even if temporary.
-Walsh Clarke and Cole more involved, the latter 2 starting.

Aidan Carr Corner forward. I'm sure John Clarke was bemused.

[supersub]

I suspect most of those criticising Turley were watching on tv rather than attending the game. Watching from the stand you could see that he brought a physical presence to our defence which had been missing in the league, was solid under high balls and showed a fair amount of pace. Carson scored a single point from play against him, and got a couple of generous frees as well, but our problems today were much further out the field.

Well put. The ball he slapped from the man as soon as he got and busted to get to the break keep it in and pass it off was exactly what Down need in a defender. Nothing Fancy. Big Brute. Win the ball. Straight to half back. No questions asked.

I agree very much that
-New Managers in place before the next game, even if temporary.
-Walsh Clarke and Cole more involved, the latter 2 starting.

Aidan Carr Corner forward. I'm sure John Clarke was bemused.

here here, very much have to agree with this post, especially in relation to turley, it was clear to see from being at the game that he came out well for the ball and gave his man little room to play. On several occassions he dispossesd carson and the number 13 when they had got the ball first. And didnt i tell u that aidan carr would be 'roaming'!!!

[magpie seanie]

While strange things sometimes happen with county managers, it is highly unlikely that Ross and DJ are going to walk at this stage. They will know, if they are honest with themselves, that they were part of the problem yesterday, and their pride alone will push them to at least some form of recovery in the qualifiers.

They will probably reckon that, with Dan, Benny and Ambrose regaining match fitness, a favourable draw will still present an opportunity. However, realistically, Sunday's display was so bad that only the remote prospect of a run to the quarter finals would keep them in charge next year.

I agree Mourne Rover I don't expect them to go, was just giving my opinion on the matter.  Felt seriously sorry for the lads at fulltime yesterday as I know they were probably more frustrated and disappointed than any of the few thousand fans who did travel.  Aidan Carrs frustration blew over with the incident with McGrath.  Have to say I disagree with Ross saying he made a meal of it, he got straight back up, if someone shoves you from behind when you're not expecting it you will probably go down.  However I thought the red was harsh!

I disagree. He was expecting it and threw himself up a bit before going down. Never a red card in a million years. I think Bannon thought the namby pamby rules were actually brought in at Congress.

All told a bit of a disaster for Down. Were in the box seat but Fermanagh's greater experience was the deciding factor. To lose 5-0 in the final minutes tells a tale.

[Dubh driocht]

Congratulations to Fermanagh. Yesterday proved again they are a tight unit , have a shrewd manager and some VG players. Let's remember Derry ( who were NFL champions) and Monaghan ( who have their best crop of players for 30 years) also fell victim to them last year and( as everyone has said) if they had Carson for the frees, they would have beaten Armagh to lift Ulster.
So , keep your nerves lads. The management and players will feel shite today.They know they let themselves and us down. There are clear areas for improvement but they are an honest group of men and I stand behind them.John Clarke may have added something but not sure if Mickey Walsh would have - our greatest loss is Liam Doyle .We got out of division 3 and can only improve with better opposition- if the qualifiers give us the enjoyment of Tullamore and Portlaoise , bring it on.Remember, you can't beat the AI champions every year.