2008 Ulster Club Championships

[corn02]

The Keady delight has returned

Thought i offended you TheGAA last time you posted.  Perhaps you & corn02 are the same person?  if i was from Cross I wouldn't be denying it either lad.
[/quote]

Yep same person. And, like you, I am pretending to be from another club. Go Keady.

[corn02]

The Cross team are not a pack of Ivan Dragos, but they are fairly physical. There would be a fair few teams that would be just as big and strong, but I think someone hit the nail on the head when they said their spine is very phsical.

Bellew, Donalson, McEntee, McKenna, McEntee and maybe Short.

McKenna hasn't been seen to take big hits but I am sure he can handle himself. As for the rest of that spine, there are some hard hitters there. You don;t often seen many of them come out second in a 50/50.

[DoYerJob Linesman]

I heard tonight what happened.  It is as most are stating, a Ballinderry sub came from behind and hit a Cross sub on the way into the dressing room.  He got a slap from one of the other subs and then the row escalated.  I know the names of those involved but am not posting them.  On viewing the video on the news, I'm not sure if much use of it can be made, as it is very difficult to identify anyone clearly doing anything other than pushing.  WHoever it was who was wearing the luminous green gloves seems to have been the most "active".

Over the last two weeks I have resisted the temptation to post.  This in spite of what I see as some horribly one sided, biased reporting in huge sections of the media and here.

I also heard what happened first hand, and it is remarkably similar to the above except from the opposite stand point.  Players from both teams were ambling towards the changing rooms, when the Cross subs, on mass, ran quickly towards the tunnel.  One of our subs was pushed to the ground from behind, and on getting up, was floored by a second sub.

Another Ballinderry sub was trailed towards the Cross door by a member of a prominent Cross family.  All hell then broke loose, with players from both sides trading punches.

When the punch up started, I have been told it was 50/50.  Thankfully, we had some boys in there who wouldn't be easily bullied.  The whole episode, however, was started by the Cross subs first strike.

So why have I chosen to post now?  The inconsistencies reported over both matches have become incredibly galling.  I can accept that Darren Conways play acting in the first game was not good, but please stop with the whiter than white shit that is being spouted regarding Cross.

If we can accept that Darren's actions were poor, what of Bellew's headbut, McEntee's elbow, McKeown's off the ball charge, Tony Kernans dive to get Wilkinson sent off the first day?

Don't get me wrong, they were worthy victors.  But their greatest victory is that of their PR machine, which puts forward the opinion that these boys are some sort of modern day footballing angels.  They are winners, for which they deserve credit.  However, for some of their other actions, they at least deserve parity with their opponents in the column inches.

[goh4205]

The Keady delight has returned

Thought i offended you TheGAA last time you posted.  Perhaps you & corn02 are the same person?  if i was from Cross I wouldn't be denying it either lad.

Yep same person. And, like you, I am pretending to be from another club. Go Keady.
[/quote]
You just don't get it do ya!!

[crossfire]

Quote from corn 02 on Dec 15
The Cross fans would have a reputation for being a bad bunch.

This is not the general consensus in the county. You are the only Armagh poster who continually criticises the Cross support.
I am not going to pretend that they are perfect as every club has a few "eejits" but they are far from being the worst behaved in the county.
Mind you there are a good few slobbers among the Dromintee faithful.

That aside, i have been watching football for over 30 years and Ballinderry have the worst behaved  supporters i have ever witnessed.
I moved at half time in both the drawn game and the replay to get away from foul mouthed supporters but each time it was a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire.

[DoYerJob Linesman]

That aside, i have been watching football for over 30 years and Ballinderry have the worst behaved  supporters i have ever witnessed.
I moved at half time in both the drawn game and the replay to get away from foul mouthed supporters but each time it was a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire.

POT / KETTLE / BLACK

f**k me but that is priceless.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Quote from corn 02 on Dec 15
The Cross fans would have a reputation for being a bad bunch.

This is not the general consensus in the county. You are the only Armagh poster who continually criticises the Cross support.
I am not going to pretend that they are perfect as every club has a few "eejits" but they are far from being the worst behaved in the county.
Mind you there are a good few slobbers among the Dromintee faithful.

That aside, i have been watching football for over 30 years and Ballinderry have the worst behaved  supporters i have ever witnessed.
I moved at half time in both the drawn game and the replay to get away from foul mouthed supporters but each time it was a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I think the Cross fans are the worst in the county as well.

[crossfire]

Thats a bit rich coming from a Cullyhanna man.
You would nearly need a suit of armour to go to a game down there.

[brokencrossbar1]

There are idiot supporters everywhere, and I know there are a good few in Cross, so that is a non argument.  The whole "who're the greatest fans?" is the sort of crap that Norn Iron supporters come out with!

Of course there is biased posting on here DoYerJob.  There is an old phrase "history is written by the victors", the same thing in sport.  Whatever about the failings of Cross, we are highly regarded throughout Ireland.  The incidents that you refer to have been debated on here.  Very few, me included have condoned Francie.  Some outright condemn him, others less so.  Many people have castigated John Mac for an alleged elbow.  I saw alleged as I did not see it and will not comment on it.  The same with the alleged charge in the back by I think it was Skinny McKeown.  I did not see it and will not comment on it, but others have condemned it so I don't see your point.  

As regards the tunnel incident, the second half of your statement is close to what I was told.  I do not know if what you say is correct in that a Ballinderry sub was knocked over first.  What I was told was a first hand account of someone involved and he may or may not have seen everything, the same way as your eyewitness may or may not have seen everything.  Anyway, it is a matter of opinion again as to who started it, without clear first hand knowledge through video footage or personally witnessing it.

As regards Tony Kernan diving, I think it is accepted that he was struck by Wilkinson.  The ref had a clearer view of it than anyone, and if he did push/strike then it is a minimum yellow and as he was already on one there was no option other than to send him off.

Cross are not whiter than white and no one is trying to suggest that we are.  Conversely we are not the devil incarnate that are destroying the game, as some southern people have suggested(not here mind you).  We play the game as hard as we physically can and sometimes that goes over the boundaries.  So do Kerry, so do Tyrone, so do Chelsea, the ALl Blacks, Munster, any great team plays to the limit of the rules.  This is not a new phenomenon and has been a part of competitive sport for as long as I remember.  The reason Cross get so much flack is because due to our success we are in the limelight more than any other team and play in more high profile games than other teams, and consequently our indiscretions(which there are some) are magnified to the nth degree.  I hear it a lot in Cork and to be honest it is the reason why Cork footballers will not win an AI in the near future.  All fine players but not enough to help Canty and O'Leary get stuck in.

Ballinderry are a fine side, and would have been within a kick of a win if Enda had been playing.  I have great respect for many of the players who I have played against at club level and even as far back as schools football when I would have played against the like of Ronan McGuckian for Maghera.  I would hope that they realise that they are a much better team than they showed last Sunday, as they got a small bit carried away with the hard man approach, when it was clear that football would have been a better option for them.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Thats a bit rich coming from a Cullyhanna man.
You would nearly need a suit of armour to go to a game down there.

Well Corn obviously thinks its a lot worse in Cross.

I think Cross suffer from more of a bandwagon element than other clubs do, mainly due to their success and there tends be more an element of mouthy ill-informed supporters at their matches who give the impression that they don't know a thing about football. To an extent, Cross' support is more like a county's, both in terms of numbers and bandwagoners.

I'd have been to a brave few games in the past couple of years and I only time I've ever gotten into a verbal row with another supporter was with an idiot from Cross who thought it'd be hilarious to start roaring abuse at Ciaran McKeever at a club match. I wouldn't mind so much except Ciaran wasn't playing due to Armagh commitments so this clown started shouting at him to tog out if he was any man at all or something along those lines. Of course the fact that Oisin, Francie et al weren't togged out for the same reason as Ciaran wouldn't even have crossed the idiot's mind.

Obviously BC1 is right in that every club has its element.

[pintsofguinness]

Thats a bit rich coming from a Cullyhanna man.
You would nearly need a suit of armour to go to a game down there.

Ah a gum shield a boxing gloves would do you.

elements of the cross support are pretty bad but it's generally the same ones who refer to their players by the numbers on their backs!
The more successful you are the more idiots you attract. 


Worst supporters I've ever experienced, club or county - Donaghmore!

[DoYerJob Linesman]

Very few, me included have condoned Francie.  Some outright condemn him, others less so.

but others have condemned it so I don't see your point.  



As regards the tunnel incident, the second half of your statement is close to what I was told.  I do not know if what you say is correct in that a Ballinderry sub was knocked over first.  What I was told was a first hand account of someone involved and he may or may not have seen everything, the same way as your eyewitness may or may not have seen everything.  Anyway, it is a matter of opinion again as to who started it, without clear first hand knowledge through video footage or personally witnessing it.

As regards Tony Kernan diving, I think it is accepted that he was struck by Wilkinson.  The ref had a clearer view of it than anyone, and if he did push/strike then it is a minimum yellow and as he was already on one there was no option other than to send him off.




 I would hope that they realise that they are a much better team than they showed last Sunday, as they got a small bit carried away with the hard man approach, when it was clear that football would have been a better option for them.

Your reply is a reasonable and eloquent one, and naturally comes from a biased viewpoint, as does mine. I have some issues with the qoutes above:

Firstly, Francies headbutt has been met with a fraction of the uproar that Conways dive was given.  This sickens me to be honest, as I think Francie has "disgraced" himself at least as much as Darren had.

Regarding the tunnel incident, my info comes from our sub who was pushed and then punched to the ground.t

Thirdly, I accept that Conor Wilkinson hit Tony Kernan, in the STOMACH.  Tony fell to the ground holding his face, and was still holding his face as the ref booked himself and Conor.  This is playacting in my book, the same crime as Conway/

I, finally, do accept that we are a better team than we showed last Sunday.  However, the hard man approach you speak off was used in abundance by Cross, on many occasions, more so than us I would argue.

We are not going to agree on this as we come from polar opposite view points .  My beef is not with you BC1, but more with sections of the printed media.  Martin McHugh, Brendan Crossan and Kenny Archer, to name but a few, were outraged and very outspoken after the drawn game regarding Darren Conway.  Why is this outrage not transferrable to Fraincie?  Surely this is a valid point?

[goh4205]

Very few, me included have condoned Francie.  Some outright condemn him, others less so.

but others have condemned it so I don't see your point.  



As regards the tunnel incident, the second half of your statement is close to what I was told.  I do not know if what you say is correct in that a Ballinderry sub was knocked over first.  What I was told was a first hand account of someone involved and he may or may not have seen everything, the same way as your eyewitness may or may not have seen everything.  Anyway, it is a matter of opinion again as to who started it, without clear first hand knowledge through video footage or personally witnessing it.

As regards Tony Kernan diving, I think it is accepted that he was struck by Wilkinson.  The ref had a clearer view of it than anyone, and if he did push/strike then it is a minimum yellow and as he was already on one there was no option other than to send him off.




 I would hope that they realise that they are a much better team than they showed last Sunday, as they got a small bit carried away with the hard man approach, when it was clear that football would have been a better option for them.

Your reply is a reasonable and eloquent one, and naturally comes from a biased viewpoint, as does mine. I have some issues with the qoutes above:

Firstly, Francies headbutt has been met with a fraction of the uproar that Conways dive was given.  This sickens me to be honest, as I think Francie has "disgraced" himself at least as much as Darren had.

Regarding the tunnel incident, my info comes from our sub who was pushed and then punched to the ground.t

Thirdly, I accept that Conor Wilkinson hit Tony Kernan, in the STOMACH.  Tony fell to the ground holding his face, and was still holding his face as the ref booked himself and Conor.  This is playacting in my book, the same crime as Conway/

I, finally, do accept that we are a better team than we showed last Sunday.  However, the hard man approach you speak off was used in abundance by Cross, on many occasions, more so than us I would argue.

We are not going to agree on this as we come from polar opposite view points .  My beef is not with you BC1, but more with sections of the printed media.  Martin McHugh, Brendan Crossan and Kenny Archer, to name but a few, were outraged and very outspoken after the drawn game regarding Darren Conway.  Why is this outrage not transferrable to Fraincie?  Surely this is a valid point?

both you & BC make very good points on all the incidents, but regarding your view of the tunnel issue, your sub is telling a porky & i don't make that point lightly.  I seen the incident & the B/derry sub struck first as I stated before, this is what kicked it all off.

Seems like your trying to do your own bit of PR for the club Doyourjob.

[DoYerJob Linesman]

If its all the same to you, I choose to believe my source.

[brokencrossbar1]

There is not one completely unbiased opinion in any argument as each individual has their own agenda, no matter how small it may be.

I do not condone Francie's actions, but as an old friend I refuse to get involved in ripping into him either.  I have said he should not have done what he did and if anyone knows that better than him, I would be surprised.  In the end the referee made a call and hopped the ball instead of giving him the free.  It would be interesting to see his report at the meeting tonight. 

Like you, I do not question my source in respect of the tunnel incident, but it comes down to who saw what and when.  What happened to the the Ballinderry sub may well have happened as you describe, but did he see everything that happened in the build up to what happened to him.  I would hazard a guess at no.  The truth of any event is deciphered from a cumulation of descriptions and opinions.  Once these have all been gathered together and torn apart and then put back together, then you will have about half of the truth.  The simple fact is that something happened and the blame game that has been rife is wrong, as at the end of things it will make no difference to the result and will not give anyone a sense of satisfaction.