Unionist/Orange/ Loyalist tradition/culture

[lynchbhoy]

while I was a little mischevious in some of the stuff I listed - aiming to provoke a reaction from some of the usual suspects and
'apologists' - successfully too (though plenty of the triumphalism , sectarianism etc etc was seemingly part of the oo/loyalist 'tradition') I still fail to see anything that is a 'culture' from this 'tribe'.

I have tried to think of a few and can only come up with bushmills whiskey, ulster folk park and the ulster (plaguarised) fry.
Marching season is a tradition, but can it really be called a 'cultural' thing?
there has to be some items to add to the above

its great to see that yet again I am 'told' what I think ! Says it all really!

[nifan]

its great to see that yet again I am 'told' what I think ! Says it all really!

Your one to talk, your never done telling me what i am, what i think, and what my "type" is

though plenty of the triumphalism , sectarianism etc etc was seemingly part of the oo/loyalist 'tradition

Yes, there was/is plenty of sectarianism there. As there is in your "tradition" as well.

[theskull1]

So who makes the first move nifan?

If you can't give us a confident reply then what are we to think? Most people who consider themselves irish very likely are blinkered about what someone with a unionist mindset considers to be his culture, but when given the opertunity to communicate a different perspective and you don't, then is it any wonder?

[lynchbhoy]

ah yeah, the old 'sniping from the wings' rubbish from the 'uncle tom'

I dont get a chance to tell the likes of you what 'you think' , yer too busy telling me and the rest of us wha we are thinking etc etc, when trying to manipulate the argument as your ilk have been seemingly taught to do - and you dislke when I point out that this makes you the same as that type and not a 'new independant breed' as you like to pretend or portray.
I dont even think you realise this yourself! Yer a stereotype!

your 'tactic' of chipping into debates with little snippits that more or less say that the nationalists did/do this as well and try to equate everything horrendous about unionist/loyalist/oo/ni football/rangers/b specials/ruc (selct as per debate) is the 'same' or 'like' that sf/GAA/Ireish etc etc have done/are doing also - which they are generally not.

while this is a fairly harmless example of what you constantly do, its not long since you quiped in with this - trying to water down the point of the poster.

Quote from: orangeman on July 06, 2008, 12:22:14 PM
ILUVNI - Away and start oe about Portadown FC / Linfield etc etc etc !

Quote from: nifan
Topics are constantly started about these.

your other examples are effectively defending all bastions of decency like oo/ruc/dup/udr/lvf/uvf/brit army etc etc by comments equating them to 'the other side'
now if you have any decent debate about these things as they come up, how about discussing them , rather than sniping wee quips like the above and then hiding away, and pretending to be 'against' all of the above.

Like I say, I dont think you realise the level of indoctrination you have had and are emitting.
I dont have to say anything like this to the likes of eg solomon kane, as at least that poster is honest and will debate the point honestly. The southern crew dont understand how you and your ilk 'play' it and dont see your otherwise seeingly harmless jibes.
but when you have seen people like you over a lifetime, its easier to spot.
how about being honest and debating like a man from now on instead of this wee sniping!

To answer your post, yes both sides are guilty of all such aspects, but only the oo/unionist side were guilty of enforcing their oppressive ways over hundreds of years, and are still trying to do it (running oo marches through unwilling nationalist areas).
Thats not culture,thats implied intimidation and oppression.
Looks like they really have changed alright!  

[Main Street]

So far the distinguishing cultural tradition of the British in NI are the historical events about that identity and the continued affirmation of the importance of that identity.

Somebody mentioned Louis McNeice.
It's not a question of somebody who grows up in NI with a protestant background and is good at poetry or song etc like Louis or  James Galway.
Anyway Louis, afaik, was born into a home rule protestant family  
If you'd mention Louis then why not mention the acclaimed Derek Bell or Shaun Davey -  especially the obvious  'Relief of Derry Symphony',
they use the medium of (contemporary) trad music.
Van M  wrote songs about growing up in Belfast or even acclaimed playwright  Maire Jones wrote plays about life in the North.

It is not a question of education or artistic skills, it is just what is it that can be regarded as culture (apart from identity and  OO parades) from the ethnic group that claims to be British that distiguishes them from Gaels.

As far as I can see, whatever artistically merited cultural expression comes out of Protestant/Unionist/British Identified born in Northern Ireland, doesn't identify itself with Unionist/Orange/Loyalist tradition. For the most part it just ends up being part of and sometimes integral part of Irish culture.

[nifan]

I dont get a chance to tell the likes of you what 'you think' , yer too busy telling me and the rest of us wha we are thinking etc etc, when trying to manipulate the argument as your ilk have been seemingly taught to do - and you dislke when I point out that this makes you the same as that type and not a 'new independant breed' as you like to pretend or portray.
I dont even think you realise this yourself! Yer a stereotype!

Interestingly, even though you dont get a chance to tell me what i think, you go ahead again and do just that,
You even have the audacity to tell me I dont know what I think. Your a strange lad.

The post you just put up for me was hardly watering down the point of the poster - he didnt have a point.

your other examples are effectively defending all bastions of decency like oo/ruc/dup/udr/lvf/uvf/brit army etc etc by comments equating them to 'the other side'
now if you have any decent debate about these things as they come up, how about discussing them , rather than sniping wee quips like the above and then hiding away, and pretending to be 'against' all of the above.

If you have any posts from me defending the LVF or UVF id be interested to hear it. The fact that you accuse me of defending these entities shows your complete misreading of me. When have I ever said anything even remotely positive about such terror groups. You are simply lying now.
As for the DUP you called me a propogandist before, which is still a laugh now.

[Chrisowc]

nifan.  Why bother?

[lynchbhoy]

As far as I can see, whatever artistically merited cultural expression comes out of Protestant/Unionist/British Identified born in Northern Ireland, doesn't identify itself with Unionist/Orange/Loyalist tradition. For the most part it just ends up being part of and sometimes integral part of Irish culture.

I'd say thats very true.

[lynchbhoy]

nterestingly, even though you dont get a chance to tell me what i think, you go ahead again and do just that,
You even have the audacity to tell me I dont know what I think. Your a strange lad.

The post you just put up for me was hardly watering down the point of the poster - he didnt have a point.

your other examples are effectively defending all bastions of decency like oo/ruc/dup/udr/lvf/uvf/brit army etc etc by comments equating them to 'the other side'
now if you have any decent debate about these things as they come up, how about discussing them , rather than sniping wee quips like the above and then hiding away, and pretending to be 'against' all of the above.

If you have any posts from me defending the LVF or UVF id be interested to hear it. The fact that you accuse me of defending these entities shows your complete misreading of me. When have I ever said anything even remotely positive about such terror groups. You are simply lying now.
As for the DUP you called me a propogandist before, which is still a laugh now.

nope you have the tendency to water down or try to undermine other peoples posts or points - the example as I said wasnt a great one, but the last occurrence - and is just an example.
whether you support the dup etc etc is inconsequential, but only you can tell , as your 'snping' of others posts that usually moan that' the other side' (be it gaa, sf, Ireland etc etc)  do the 'same' - so it supports the dup/ruc/lvf/oo etc etc even if you dont personally support them. whether you do or not is moot. I just cant fathom whether you are, or just trying to fool yourself though.

[nifan]

so it supports the dup/ruc/lvf/oo etc etc even if you dont personally support them

Thats just a nonsense statement.
You accused me of supporting them, but now it seems like more of a "my enemies enemy" sort of thing.

However I dont consider the gaa or Ireland etc to be my enemy r anything like it.
Ive always been pretty positive about the GAA certainly, even if some small things I dont agree with. I certainly do not snipe at it.

If you know so much about what my ilk is maybe you could tell me - do i hate catholics for example? do I hate Ireland?

[lynchbhoy]

Thats just a nonsense statement.
You accused me of supporting them, but now it seems like more of a "my enemies enemy" sort of thing.

However I dont consider the gaa or Ireland etc to be my enemy r anything like it.
Ive always been pretty positive about the GAA certainly, even if some small things I dont agree with. I certainly do not snipe at it.

If you know so much about what my ilk is maybe you could tell me - do i hate catholics for example? do I hate Ireland?

unlike you , I dont tell you WHAT you think !
I just am pointing out the tactics you use to do so...

dont care what you think, just dont like what you do/use on here all the time

[nifan]

unlike you , I dont tell you WHAT you think !

But you do. You have often told me this, and based it on reverting to type and what my ilk think like.

If I am as indoctrinated as you say how come only you can notice it, and it doesnt affect my life outside of your opinion on this board.

[lynchbhoy]

unlike you , I dont tell you WHAT you think !

But you do. You have often told me this, and based it on reverting to type and what my ilk think like.

If I am as indoctrinated as you say how come only you can notice it, and it doesnt affect my life outside of your opinion on this board.

who says you do /dont !
it would depend on whether you are being honest with yourself or not, plus the kinds of groups you hang around with.
I dont presume you hang out with a large mainly GAA oriented discussion group down the pub eavch night, with a few unionists tagging along picking arguments and problems with you chipping in with 'qualifying' statements now and again to 'save' your 'friends'.

as for the above ...
what your ilk DO and act like -  not telling you what you are thinking! , thats your forte!

[nifan]

chipping in with 'qualifying' statements now and again to 'save' your 'friends'.

I chip in with what I think, not to save friends, whom i dont know.
Ive chipped in to defend the gaa and gaa fans before as well, but you never comment on me saving these "friends", why is that? does anything that doesnt fit in with your views get ignored.

As what people of my ilk DO, please elaborate, what do we do?

[lynchbhoy]

chipping in with 'qualifying' statements now and again to 'save' your 'friends'.

I chip in with what I think, not to save friends, whom i dont know.
Ive chipped in to defend the gaa and gaa fans before as well, but you never comment on me saving these "friends", why is that? does anything that doesnt fit in with your views get ignored.

As what people of my ilk DO, please elaborate, what do we do?