Armagh v Down- 29th June-Ulster Semi Final Thread

[armawman]

I said:

Quote from Crossfire: "Most knowledgeable football followers were aware this past couple of years that he was a good footballer and genuine county material".

Correct.

Stephen Kernan proved himself as an excellent footballer during Armagh's U21 success in 2004. It is no surprise that he is now shining in the senior jersey. For all players it takes a while to progress from U21 to senior.

Uladh replied to this by saying:

I have no problem with that. what i did have a problem was him geting the opportunity to fast track his progress before equally talented footballers and in front of players who were already at levels above him.

You say you have no problem with the claim that Stephen was an excellent footballer at U21 level and with the claim that he is now shining in the Armagh jersey. But you have a problem that he got "the opportunity to fast track his progress before equally talented footballers and in front of players who were already at levels above him".

So you claim that there are "equally talented footballers" who didn't get the opportunity Stephen received. Stephen Kernan has scored 1 goal and five points in the two championship matches played this season. He is our top scorer from play – this is a huge achievement seeing that our team also includes Ronan Clarke and Stephen McDonnell. He was named man – of – the – match in The Irish News for Sunday's performance and has been warmly praised by media pundits. He has also been warmly praised by his colleagues – for example Ronan Clarke has heaped praise on him during post – match interviews. He was instrumental in the 2004 U21 success and highly regarded by manager peter Rafferty.

Yet you say that there are a number of "equally talented footballers" who should have had their chance before him. If that is the case, then Armagh must have a number of other players out there who could also give man – of – the – match performances, score a goal and five over two championship games, receive universal praise among media pundits and be instrumental to our success. How come Peter McDonnell doesn't know about them? How come he doesn't play them? Why are these "equally talented footballers" being hidden away somewhere and not getting their chance?

The reality is if any footballer in Armagh is "equally talented" to Stephen Kernan then he's one hell of a footballer. Stephen Kernan oozes class and it is a joy to watch him in the orange jersey. A man of this ability deserved every chance he got to make progress and Armagh fans should be eternally grateful that he was given these chances. The people who gave Stephen his chances knew he was a player of great potential and he has proved them 100% correct.

[corn02]

Jesus are you his spokesman or something?

Read through Uladh's posts one more time, he said he wants him on his team and he deserves to be there.
I think he believes, and many others, that his league form or previous games did not warrant a championship starting place last year. He had a great leaue campaign for Armagh this year and is worthy of his place. Read the posts properly before going on a rant.

[armawman]

In reply to Corn:

My last message referred solely to Uladh's previous post - I quoted from his post. I wasn't referring to any of his other posts, I was referring to this one. My whole message referred to this post from Uladh.

You then tell me to go and read his other posts. But I wasn't talking about them, I was dealing solely with the comments he made in his last post. You then, after making no specific reference to the points I have made, order me for my homework to "Read the posts properly before going on a rant". Could you point out where I've gone "on a rant" and which points I have made that are inaccurate?     

[Uladh]

If i explained it to you again you still wouldn't my point.

Players' girlfriends should be banned from posting

[crossfire]

I know plenty of good footballers who are genuine county material, I would not have them near the Armagh team yet.

A bit of a contradiction there Corn.

Name the good footballers you are talking about

[crossfire]

I have no problem with that. what i did have a problem was him geting the opportunity to fast track his progress before equally talented footballers and in front of players who were already at levels above him.

Name the equally talented footballers  and also the players that you say were already at levels above S K

[Armamike]

There's not much of an argument to be had on this.  Stephen has done well this year and long may that continue. But he has been a slow burner on the senior set up - this is his fourth or fifth year on the panel and to put it kindly his performances before this year didn't set the world alight. It was only last year that he couldn't get on his club team (albeit a very good one!) so Armagh supporters were entitled to ask how he was getting appearances for the county.

[armaghniac]

SK didn't really impress with his performances last year, but the whole Kernan nepotism issue may have been a self fulfilling prophecy, he may feel under less pressure this year. 

I've just watched the game on Setanta, the commentator pointed out that Down had suffered more championship defeats to Armagh than any other team, long may it last!! 

[naka]

Watched the game last night on setanta and was shocked at some of Down`s misses, also felt that throughout the game Down got the benefit from some handy frees which were given solely because they werent physically strong enough in the challenge,
after sunday`s game I felt that Armagh were woeful in midfield in the second half but when watching it again the reason why midfield looked so poor was because we were winning no breaking ball, credit to down  for this.
On the sending off to me it looked a yellow card at the time and last night it still looked a late challenge so he should have no complaints

[corn02]

I know plenty of good footballers who are genuine county material, I would not have them near the Armagh team yet.

A bit of a contradiction there Corn.

Name the good footballers you are talking about

Not really county material as in some day they may be good enoufg, as in S Kernan before this year. Doesn't mean they should start.

Armawman - it's called context dear, that's why you should read more than one post.

[The GAA]

Stephen Kernan was one of a number of players coming out of those successful u21 sides who had the potential to make it at senior level.

For the following 2/3 years you would have a hard time seperating the likes of kernan, austin, loughran, swift, vernon, courtney, lavery, mackin and toal to name some of the potentials. It annonyed people that a similar level of potential from Stephen to the others merited constant national league and frequent championship appearances in that period when his performances at senior level did not merit them. The previously named players got much less opportunity to stake a claim and therefore develop into senior football.

The most annoying part came then when big joe felt that his previous potential merited championship inclusion in front of, not only those with similar potential, but also in front of players like paddy mc keever, marty o'rourke, etc. all of this before he had produced any sort of football for armagh.

thankfully now stephen has shown his worth throught the league and first two championship games and we, as armagh men, are all the better for it.

i believe he would have arrived at this point much earlier in his career had he not been fast tracked and and put in intolerably pressurised situations by his father before he was ready. he's in good form and lets hope the pressure of expectation does not dent that from now on.

[corn02]

Well said The GAA.

The man is playing some stuff, long may it continue.

[Whacker]

i believe he would have arrived at this point much earlier in his career had he not been fast tracked and and put in intolerably pressurised situations by his father before he was ready. he's in good form and lets hope the pressure of expectation does not dent that from now on.

I think that is the best way of putting what people have being trying to say.

[Uladh]

Stephen Kernan was one of a number of players coming out of those successful u21 sides who had the potential to make it at senior level.

For the following 2/3 years you would have a hard time seperating the likes of kernan, austin, loughran, swift, vernon, courtney, lavery, mackin and toal to name some of the potentials. It annonyed people that a similar level of potential from Stephen to the others merited constant national league and frequent championship appearances in that period when his performances at senior level did not merit them. The previously named players got much less opportunity to stake a claim and therefore develop into senior football.

The most annoying part came then when big joe felt that his previous potential merited championship inclusion in front of, not only those with similar potential, but also in front of players like paddy mc keever, marty o'rourke, etc. all of this before he had produced any sort of football for armagh.

thankfully now stephen has shown his worth throught the league and first two championship games and we, as armagh men, are all the better for it.

i believe he would have arrived at this point much earlier in his career had he not been fast tracked and and put in intolerably pressurised situations by his father before he was ready. he's in good form and lets hope the pressure of expectation does not dent that from now on.

Thats about right

[D4S]

Can we delete this thread yet?

Every time I log on and see it in the Gaa Discussion still so high up on the list of threads I feel sick and it take me back to a sad place in my life