Armagh v Down- 29th June-Ulster Semi Final Thread

[ONeill]

When will Armagh learn?

They'll be appearing in their 7th Ulster Final in 10 years, having won the other 6. Yet only one Sam, and that was with 2 replays.

Armagh's best football was played in 2003 when they were playing regularly. Sitting on their hole for 5 weeks out of 7 is a disastrous scenario for a side like Armagh that lack natural pace and rely on brute strength.

[Mourne Rover]

Congratulations to Armagh, who had the physique and the quality in key areas to give them the edge on the day and continue their amazing record against us. We have lost every competitive match against them in the championship, league and McKenna Cup since I think 1994. They expect to beat us and it showed today.

We had to get a goal to stand a chance, and Hearty did not really have a save to make. In our last attack of the first half, we had two men free but a pass which I think was from Murphy went astray and the chance was lost. The big problem today was our attack, rather than, as most of us had feared, the defence. Our starting six forwards today got a total of two points from play, which will never win any game.

Armagh, by contrast, could easily have had other goals, although the one they got owed a lot to Doyle's injury.It's easy to be wise after the event, and he is a very important player for us, but he was clearly struggling, with what looked like a hamstring, and Armagh would probably not have got the goal if he had been replaced immediately.

The only criticism I would make of Armagh would be over the repeated follow-through on a man who had just played the ball. It happened throughout the match, and O'Rourke could have few complaints about his red card.

When he walked, we were clearly in with a chance. We did not take it, and we were not quite good enough on the day.

[The Corporal]

I actually thought Luke Howard had a good game 2day. McDonnell got to the ball first on every occasion but how many times did he pass Howard? Think it's the 1st time in a long time he's been kept scoreless from play.

[dodgy umpire]

I actually thought Luke Howard had a good game 2day. McDonnell got to the ball first on every occasion but how many times did he pass Howard? Think it's the 1st time in a long time he's been kept scoreless from play.

have to agree, young howard had a good game along with gordon and rodgers. maybe time to give benny a rest let him recover from his nocks and strains. was a pity we insisted on giving hospital handpasses all day

[Pangurban]

well done Armagh, you deserved your win. Now this may sound like sour grapes, but i assure you all it is not. If i were an Armagh man, i would be seriously concerned that for extremely long periods you were held scoreless by an under-performing Down team. The failure to fully utilise your excellent FF line, the number of frees you are conceding. On todays performance i would very confidently expect Fermanagh to be crowned Ulster champions, if there is not a marked improvement in your play.

[Maiden1]

Down defense was not physically strong enough.  McDonnell, Clarke and Kernan all could beat there man all day long.  Down men couldn't get a hand on the ball.   Was like minors against seniors.

[dodgy umpire]

Down defense was not physically strong enough.  McDonnell, Clarke and Kernan all could beat there man all day long.  Down men couldn't get a hand on the ball.   Was like minors against seniors.

defence were superstars in comparison to the forwards play

[kumquat]

The ball into the armagh forwards was very good, by contrast down delayed the ball into their forwards by a fraction and thats why the armagh backs were up the holes of benny & co. That combined with poor passing & no left footed free taker for the 2nd half made it an extremley difficult game for down to win.  anyone else think playing your free man in the full back line when chasing a game was a good idea?

[Maiden1]

Down defense was not physically strong enough.  McDonnell, Clarke and Kernan all could beat there man all day long.  Down men couldn't get a hand on the ball.   Was like minors against seniors.

defence were superstars in comparison to the forwards play

Forwards only scored 2 points from play so where very poor, the full back line where all giving away about 3 inches and about 2 stone on there man, it was too easy for Armagh to just kick the ball in.  Will struggle against physical teams.

[Leo]

The ball into the armagh forwards was very good, by contrast down delayed the ball into their forwards by a fraction and thats why the armagh backs were up the holes of benny & co. That combined with poor passing & no left footed free taker for the 2nd half made it an extremley difficult game for down to win.  anyone else think playing your free man in the full back line when chasing a game was a good idea?

Best post so far.
Clueless use of the "extra man" when Down needed to punish Armagh and had the midfield superiority to do it. Saw McCartan remosnstarting with Ross - clearly didnt know what to do. Should have immediately introduced McComiskey to use as an extra forward.
I am beginning to seriously question the Coulter factor. So many wrong options today - made a mug of by Mckeever on more than one occasion when Benny seemed intent on playing the man and not the ball. Meeting his own on-coming player when he should be making the option further afield,  too close receiveing , giving his marker every chance to bottle him in, all very unproductive. This sacrilege does not go down well in Down but for a long time I've argued that his talents are just not properly used and now I just don't know about him at all and I wonder do some of his Down colleagues feel the same.
Dan Gordon majestic again but poor support and abysmal performance on the breaking ball. Murtagh and Sexton should have gone long before Clarke.
I am one of the few who like and rate Aidan Carr but today he was all over the place - except marking his man. Not a wing half after all.
But all of these issues can be addressed - what we cannot do is continue to turn out a game but totally inadequate (in physical and intelligence terms) full back line. The WORST in Ireland, sad to say. All good guys, all game boys - just ask any Armagh player what their forward game plan was - target the full back line. That's your answer.
Go back a few years

Cole Molloy Scullion

I'd have that one anytime.

[bridgegael]

you must have been some footballer LEO.  again another one of these  slag the boys off if they get beat!!  cop on lads!!

[ONeill]

The reason Down were not getting the ball into Benny etc was because Armagh physically dominated the middle sector when a Down player was in possession. At times the Mourne man was isolated with 4 Armagh players smothering and hounding him, usually resulting in the Down man fouling the ball or a turn-over. The key to beating this system is not to short-pass backward and then hold on to the ball. Easier said than done but swift forward movement is the key to unlocking the intimidating suffocating tactics of the Armagh 5-12.

Armagh have the best defensive system when up against players who dither.

[Mourne Rover]

Leo, you should ask yourself how many championship games we actually won with the full back line-up you praise. Molloy was a fine player who did best for us at corner back or even midfield. He struggled every time he was switched to full back, and he retired two years ago.

Scullion was a decent enough defender who still gave away a huge amount of frees. He walked away from the county squad 18 months ago, was asked back, walked again and does not even play club football for Carryduff any more even though he is still in his 20s. There is very little point in putting him forward as a solution to our problems,

Cole was very unlucky to get suspended for two championship games over a relatively minor incident, but he will be back for the next match.

I would agree that Rafferty was poor against Armagh, although McCartan, as always, did his level best against an opponent who is possibly the best in Ireland in his position.

Howard had an outstanding game, kept McDonnell scoreless from play and has nailed down his place in the team. Our full back line is obviously not our strongest sector, but we did not lose the game there in Clones.

[Leo]

you must have been some footballer LEO.  again another one of these  slag the boys off if they get beat!!  cop on lads!!

"Own-club" complex makes no contribution to a true assessment of player and team performance. If you take the parochial blindfold off you will see that credit was given where it was due and questions were asked in a genuine attempt to understand under-performance, even if that means tackling scared cows..

[Leo]

Leo, you should ask yourself how many championship games we actually won with the full back line-up you praise. Molloy was a fine player who did best for us at corner back or even midfield. He struggled every time he was switched to full back, and he retired two years ago.

Scullion was a decent enough defender who still gave away a huge amount of frees. He walked away from the county squad 18 months ago, was asked back, walked again and does not even play club football for Carryduff any more even though he is still in his 20s. There is very little point in putting him forward as a solution to our problems,

Cole was very unlucky to get suspended for two championship games over a relatively minor incident, but he will be back for the next match.

I would agree that Rafferty was poor against Armagh, although McCartan, as always, did his level best against an opponent who is possibly the best in Ireland in his position.

Howard had an outstanding game, kept McDonnell scoreless from play and has nailed down his place in the team. Our full back line is obviously not our strongest sector, but we did not lose the game there in Clones.

MR, I never once suggested we bering back that full back line. INdeed at the time it was constantly pillioried by many Down supporters as being the worst ever. My point is that it wasn't worse than this one, and more importantly, my point is that everyone has known this glaring weakness yet we are now worse than when we started. They ARE game lads, but they are a problem and not a solution and maybe none of us know the answer but we are kidding ourtselves if we think we can progress despite such a glaring inadequacy in this line.